Belgian Grand Prix Thread

[ShiftingGears]

1st Practice in half an hour...

I think Ferrari have a strong chance of winning here, with several medium-high speed corners.
If it isn't a Ferrari one-two, I think it will be over for their drivers championship challenge.

Predictions, thoughts?

[pino]

Predictions ? McLaren are just too fast, so I say 1-2 for them again...

[Ian McC]

Massa stopped out on the track, any ideas anyone?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Massa stopped out on the track, any ideas anyone?

They've been using confidential Red Bull data.

[Ian McC]

They've been using confidential Red Bull data.


:rotflmao:

Didn't give them wings then :p :

[Ian McC]

Predictions ? McLaren are just too fast, so I say 1-2 for them again...

Kimi is looking very quick!

[ShiftingGears]

Kimi very quick in practice. Also interesting to note that Yamamoto has the fastest 3rd sector time out of anyone!

[BeansBeansBeans]

Also interesting to note that Yamamoto has the fastest 3rd sector time out of anyone!

He must've found a shortcut.

[gm99]

Massa stopped out on the track, any ideas anyone?

Maybe they forgot to fuel him up again?

As to the race, I think it might well be a duell between Alonso (who had a commanding win at Spa in F3000 a few years ago) and Kimi, who always seems to go well there and has won twice already.

[ShiftingGears]

This will be an interesting weekend!

Also Massa crashed into the tyre barriers in FP1.

[jens]

Predictions ? McLaren are just too fast, so I say 1-2 for them again...

Don't think so. Spa is more of an aero circuit, which at least in theory should suit more Ferrari and they indeed are looking good.



As to the race, I think it might well be a duell between Alonso (who had a commanding win at Spa in F3000 a few years ago) and Kimi, who always seems to go well there and has won twice already.

Massa has been very good at Spa too. ;) In 2002 managed to beat Heidfeld, in 2004 finished 4th and in 2005 was running strongly in the points until wrong tyre choice screwed his race.

[Garry Walker]

McLaren is a bit faster again, so I hope LH will win and FA will crash out

[Tazio]

I like Kimi's chances at spa. Is his neck injury going to be a factor?

[jens]

Spyker was pretty good at FPs. :up: Hopefully they'll manage to continue matching Super Aguris and Toro Rossos on Saturday and Sunday. At Monza they managed to match them only at FP-s.

[ShiftingGears]

Its interesting to compare how the current cars take Eau Rouge with how Keke Rosberg did in '83, when Spa rejoined the calendar! Wow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0eZvfwEp8


I like Kimi's chances at Spa. Is his neck injury going to be a factor?

From what I've heard, he's completely recovered. Can't provide a link though.

[Tazio]

Its interesting to compare how the current cars take Eau Rouge with how Keke Rosberg did in '83, when Spa rejoined the calendar! Wow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0eZvfwEp8




From what I've heard, he's completely recovered. Can't provide a link though.
Thanks my man. Judging from practice he's ok. But, taking Eau Rouge 60+ times can't be that great for it!

[markabilly]

I could care less...to heck with ferrari maclaren and FA and LH!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will not be watching the hypocritical farce :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[truefan72]

what do you guys think of the new bust stop ( turns 19,20)
I still liked the old busstop.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Circuit_Spa_2007.png

It will probably be a Mcclaren 1-2 this weekend

[ShiftingGears]

But, taking Eau Rouge 60+ times can't be that great for it!

Probably not!

However he is fastest coming out of saturday practice. I hope he can win, with Massa finishing second. Qualifying is gonna be good!

[ShiftingGears]

what do you guys think of the new bust stop ( turns 19,20)
I still liked the old busstop.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Circuit_Spa_2007.png

It will probably be a Mcclaren 1-2 this weekend

It seems to be a bit backwards to put heaps of money into paving the place, and yet making the pit entrance completely blind.

[Tazio]

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:46.137 + 17
2. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:46.388 + 0.251 17
3. Alonso McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:46.507 + 0.370 10
4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:46.782 + 0.645 14
5. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:47.065 + 0.928 13
6. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:47.218 + 1.081 11
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:47.251 + 1.114 16
8. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:47.359 + 1.222 16
9. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 1:47.454 + 1.317 19
10. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:47.527 + 1.390 15
11. Fisichella Renault (B) 1:47.564 + 1.427 16
12. Button Honda (B) 1:47.767 + 1.630 18
13. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:47.806 + 1.669 10
14. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:47.838 + 1.701 19
15. Wurz Williams-Toyota (B) 1:47.902 + 1.765 16
16. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:48.129 + 1.992 16
17. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:48.163 + 2.026 21
18. Sutil Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:48.348 + 2.211 18
19. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:48.528 + 2.391 16
20. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:48.955 + 2.818 16
21. Yamamoto Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:49.179 + 3.042 14
22. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) No time 2

All timing unofficial

[pino]

Liuzzi in, Rubens out :s

[ShiftingGears]

2004 lap record has just been broken!

[Flat.tyres]

I could care less...to heck with ferrari maclaren and FA and LH!!!!!!!!!!!!
i will not be watching the hypocritical farce :mad: :mad: :mad:

Ahhhh, that's a shame ;)

[ShiftingGears]

That qualifying was tight! Congratulations Kimi!

[Tazio]

Ferrari smokes Mclaren like a 25 cent cigar

[Ranger]

Pretty tough cigar then!

The race should be a good one based on qualifying proximity.

[Tazio]

Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1 6 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:46.242 1:45.070 1:45.994 15
2 5 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:46.060 1:45.173 1:46.011 15
3 1 Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.058 1:45.442 1:46.091 15
4 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.437 1:45.132 1:46.406 15
5 10 Robert Kubica BMW 1:46.707 1:45.885 1:46.996 22
6 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:46.950 1:46.469 1:47.334 21
7 9 Nick Heidfeld BMW 1:46.923 1:45.994 1:47.409 18
8 15 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:47.084 1:46.426 1:47.524 20
9 12 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:47.143 1:46.480 1:47.798 21
10 4 Heikki Kovalainen Renault 1:46.971 1:46.240 1:48.505 21
11 3 Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1:47.143 1:46.603 13
12 11 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 1:47.300 1:46.618 11
13 14 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 1:47.340 1:46.800 12
14 7 Jenson Button Honda 1:47.474 1:46.955 12
15 18 Vitantonio Liuzzi STR-Ferrari 1:47.576 1:47.115 12
16 17 Alexander Wurz Williams-Toyota 1:47.522 1:47.394 12
17 19 Sebastian Vettel STR-Ferrari 1:47.581 6
18 8 Rubens Barrichello Honda 1:47.954 6
19 22 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1:47.980 6
20 20 Adrian Sutil Spyker-Ferrari 1:48.044 8
21 23 Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 1:48.199 6
22 21 Sakon Yamamoto Spyker-Ferrari 1:49.577 5


Hamster .5 off KR .4 slower than Fred!
Any theories or speculation for this despairity?

[Ranger]

Hamster .5 off KR .4 slower than Fred!
Any theories or speculation for this despairity?

At the moment he's not as good as setting up the car as Fernando, highlighted by the fact that Fernando, since Hungary, is now keeping his own telemetry. Consequently Lewis was outclassed in Monza.

OR (you tifosi will love this)

Pedro's conversations with Fernando's about the F2007 revealed secrets about set-up that only Fernando and Pedro have in McLaren, if found out McLaren will be DQ'd from WDC as well.

OR

Lewis is heavier than Alonso.

Take your pick. :p :

[jens]

I was overjoyed, when Sutil made 12th fastest time just moments before the end of Q1. :p : But just in few moments everyone clearly bettered their time and Adrian was kicked back to 20th. :( Same with Vettel - at one moment 7th, a few seconds later 17th...

[markabilly]

Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1 6 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:46.242 1:45.070 1:45.994 15
2 5 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:46.060 1:45.173 1:46.011 15
3 1 Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.058 1:45.442 1:46.091 15
4 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.437 1:45.132 1:46.406 15



Hamster .5 off KR .4 slower than Fred!
Any theories or speculation for this despairity?


Have you not heard the news?

FA no longer shares his Ferrari set up data with LH

:(

[Tazio]

Have you not heard the news?

FA no longer shares his Ferrari set up data with LH

:(
Mark... So Am I to believe that "Team Hambone" can't set up their car to the optimum of his style/ability/preferances.
I know that Fred has alot of input into "Team Queso Grande". but not quite Shumacheresgue.
Or are you holding to the belief that Fred and his engineers are withholding info they have ala spygate?
Personally I think Fred is just a cut above.
And, I'm not taking anything away from Lew-cifer!
Hell! give the devil his due.

[VkmSpouge]

Ferrari clearly having the edge on McLaren this weekend. McLaren will have to hope that Ferrari are running lighter than they are.
I enjoyed the first qualifying session with an incredible amount of changes at the end. The Aguris are looking slower than usual. Nico Rosberg doing a great job in 5th place on the grid.

[markabilly]

Mark... So Am I to believe that "Team Hambone" can't set up their car to the optimum of his style/ability/preferances.
I know that Fred has alot of input into "Team Queso Grande". but not quite Shumacheresgue.
Or are you holding to the belief that Fred and his engineers are withholding info they have ala spygate?
Personally I think Fred is just a cut above.
And, I'm not taking anything away from Lew-cifer!
Hell! give the devil his due.


No it was something of a joke...

Back when the news first broke several races ago about FA being unhappy over sharing info, and the data sharing stopped at the race where the tire came apart, and the British press was blaming freddie @blackmailer.com for LH's tire blowing up (a claim I thought really stupid at the time, but now, I dunno about that)...my comment was even though they built the car, been going to that races since whenever....those mac engineers suddenly forget how to set up the cars...must be FA and some secret blackbox that wipes out key parts of their memory :rotflmao:

But that was before I found out from the FIA report about certain Ferrari data being used by FA, Pedro and MC to set up his car, said set up being used for LH as well..one of those items mentioned by the FIA report being weight distribution and gas mixture used to stop blistering of the front tires, etc and so forth......

and once that sharing seems to have stopped (or so claimed), FA has very consistently been faster than LH....... let me see does 2 plus 2 equal four.....

All the more reason why, from LOGIC and not from the certain philospher of 500 years ago, if Mac deserved what it got for their drivers using Ferrari data, then it is equivalent to saying that FA and LH profited and won races over Ferrari as a result...and the immunity was just an excuse to keep the hamster in the wdc contention.........

but here we are at Spa, and once again info is allegedly not being shared, and once again LH is behind FA, just like Monza and before.....is it because FA is faster or is it because that FA knows how to set the car up better based on their knowledge of how ferrari did or would do it, and is an understanding that LH and team is not capable of replicating at Spa.... :confused:

[jso1985]

I was overjoyed, when Sutil made 12th fastest time just moments before the end of Q1. :p : But just in few moments everyone clearly bettered their time and Adrian was kicked back to 20th. :( Same with Vettel - at one moment 7th, a few seconds later 17th...

I was quite excited with seeing Vettel in 7th!, quite a strange qualy session though, everyone did only 1 fast lap apparently and they ran also quite close together, I think I saw like 5 cars on the main straight at the same time.

[mstillhere]

Have you not heard the news?

FA no longer shares his Ferrari set up data with LH

:(

:) :) :) :)

[osg]

I'll just say this.............

C'MON KIMSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tazio]

No it was something of a joke...

Back when the news first broke several races ago about FA being unhappy over sharing info, and the data sharing stopped at the race where the tire came apart, and the British press was blaming freddie @blackmailer.com for LH's tire blowing up (a claim I thought really stupid at the time, but now, I dunno about that)...my comment was even though they built the car, been going to that races since whenever....those mac engineers suddenly forget how to set up the cars...must be FA and some secret blackbox that wipes out key parts of their memory :rotflmao:

But that was before I found out from the FIA report about certain Ferrari data being used by FA, Pedro and MC to set up his car, said set up being used for LH as well..one of those items mentioned by the FIA report being weight distribution and gas mixture used to stop blistering of the front tires, etc and so forth......

and once that sharing seems to have stopped (or so claimed), FA has very consistently been faster than LH....... let me see does 2 plus 2 equal four.....

All the more reason why, from LOGIC and not from the certain philospher of 500 years ago, if Mac deserved what it got for their drivers using Ferrari data, then it is equivalent to saying that FA and LH profited and won races over Ferrari as a result...and the immunity was just an excuse to keep the hamster in the wdc contention.........

but here we are at Spa, and once again info is allegedly not being shared, and once again LH is behind FA, just like Monza and before.....is it because FA is faster or is it because that FA knows how to set the car up better based on their knowledge of how ferrari did or would do it, and is an understanding that LH and team is not capable of replicating at Spa.... :confused:
Nice post!
I just find it hard to believe that Team Lew-cifer can't set up for Spa based on what they already know, or have learned before the Fred classified his data.
I think Fred’s advantage is more likely due to experience, not technical expertise. But if your right and Fred spills his guts after the season is over. The WDC should be stripped from whichever Mc-Pilot comes out on top!
This championship is really messed up!
I mean REALLY MESSED UP!

osg

"I'll just say this.............

C'MON KIMSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"



Me to Brother

[ShiftingGears]

Whys there so much runoff at La SOurce? It's completely unnecessary...

[Hondo]

I like Kimi's chances at spa. Is his neck injury going to be a factor?


Once the race starts, I don't think Kimi cares if his neck hurts or not.

[Tazio]

Once the race starts, I don't think Kimi cares if his neck hurts or not.
I'm with you on that.
At the post race interview last week he said that Lew's pass at the first chicane was partly due to the fact that he couldn't even hold his head up under braking.
He appears to be recovered. I just hope he doesn't re injure it during the race.
It’s not outside the realm of possibility

[truefan72]

Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1 6 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:46.242 1:45.070 1:45.994 15
2 5 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:46.060 1:45.173 1:46.011 15
3 1 Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.058 1:45.442 1:46.091 15
4 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.437 1:45.132 1:46.406 15
5 10 Robert Kubica BMW 1:46.707 1:45.885 1:46.996 22
6 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:46.950 1:46.469 1:47.334 21
7 9 Nick Heidfeld BMW 1:46.923 1:45.994 1:47.409 18
8 15 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:47.084 1:46.426 1:47.524 20
9 12 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:47.143 1:46.480 1:47.798 21
10 4 Heikki Kovalainen Renault 1:46.971 1:46.240 1:48.505 21
11 3 Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1:47.143 1:46.603 13
12 11 Ralf Schumacher Toyota 1:47.300 1:46.618 11
13 14 David Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 1:47.340 1:46.800 12
14 7 Jenson Button Honda 1:47.474 1:46.955 12
15 18 Vitantonio Liuzzi STR-Ferrari 1:47.576 1:47.115 12
16 17 Alexander Wurz Williams-Toyota 1:47.522 1:47.394 12
17 19 Sebastian Vettel STR-Ferrari 1:47.581 6
18 8 Rubens Barrichello Honda 1:47.954 6
19 22 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1:47.980 6
20 20 Adrian Sutil Spyker-Ferrari 1:48.044 8
21 23 Anthony Davidson Super Aguri-Honda 1:48.199 6
22 21 Sakon Yamamoto Spyker-Ferrari 1:49.577 5


Hamster .5 off KR .4 slower than Fred!
Any theories or speculation for this despairity?

As Pino Said, the name is Hamilton please


At the moment he's not as good as setting up the car as Fernando, highlighted by the fact that Fernando, since Hungary, is now keeping his own telemetry. Consequently Lewis was outclassed in Monza.

OR (you tifosi will love this)

Pedro's conversations with Fernando's about the F2007 revealed secrets about set-up that only Fernando and Pedro have in McLaren, if found out McLaren will be DQ'd from WDC as well.

OR

Lewis is heavier than Alonso.

Take your pick. :p :

1. Lewis is heavier than Alonso
2. As far as their own set up theory,
In Turkey, LH was faster than FA ( which some people conveniently forget)
In Monza FA was faster than LH
IN Spa, there really was minimal difference between the two of them all weekend. And if you look at their fastest laps all weekened, it came in Q2 where LH did 1:45.132, while Alonso did 1:45.442 so I'd say that he's ok doing his own set up.

I'm more worried about the Ferrari's resurgent pace. But we will see how they run and if their rear suspension problems are resolved.

Both LH and Massa have the inside line and with the new wider la source, the start will be very important. let's hope for an exciting race

[ShiftingGears]

Anyone know what Ferrari has a heavier fuel load?

[osg]

Its interesting to compare how the current cars take Eau Rouge with how Keke Rosberg did in '83, when Spa rejoined the calendar! Wow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a0eZvfwEp8





hows the form on the track marshals and cameramen standing on the RACING side of the barriers :eek:

Now that is racing people :eek:

[Tazio]

As Pino Said, the name is Hamilton please



1. Lewis is heavier than Alonso
2. As far as their own set up theory,
In Turkey, LH was faster than FA ( which some people conveniently forget)
In Monza FA was faster than LH
IN Spa, there really was minimal difference between the two of them all weekend. And if you look at their fastest laps all weekened, it came in Q2 where LH did 1:45.132, while Alonso did 1:45.442 so I'd say that he's ok doing his own set up.

I'm more worried about the Ferrari's resurgent pace. But we will see how they run and if their rear suspension problems are resolved.


Both LH and Massa have the inside line and with the new wider la source, the start will be very important. let's hope for an exciting race
A very thoughtful and cogent post/opinion/hypothesis
However
1. I never thought that fred had a competitive advantage over "Team Hambone" in setup!
2. I think Fred has the measure of LEW-CIFER THE MAN CHILD. And that only a Hurculian effort from LH will stop a very focused and motivated Fred-Al'
3. I will be surprised if we don't see a Ferrari win.
4. Massa's engine may be the difference in this one, as it has very few miles on it for it being a second race
5. Kimi is very good on this track and if his package holds together he may just win going away

Cheers The Taz

[jens]

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070916001416.shtml

Umm. Will we see another Ferrari retirement today? :s

[Viktory]

Both LH and Massa have the inside line and with the new wider la source, the start will be very important. let's hope for an exciting race

For the GP2 and Porsche races, pole was on the right side. So Kimi and Alonso will have the inside.

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070916001416.shtml

Umm. Will we see another Ferrari retirement today? :s

I sincerely hope not! I can't help but feel that it will happen though...

All will be revealed!

[ioan]

No.

[janneppi]

Hopefully Kimi's car last's the race distance.

[pino]

Jarno just told Ital TV, he hopes for a clear start this time...good luck Jarno :up:

[pino]

Both Renault cars will start from the pit :s

[janneppi]

So did Heikki too have an engine change?

[pino]

So did Heikki too have an engine change?

sorry it was a fake news from Ital commentators :p :

[tinchote]

Man, wasn't that boring. I came to see the race because I couldn't sleep, but even then it's a dissapointment not to be in bed ;)

The only good thing I can remenber is Webber's pass on Kovalainen: good stuff :up:

I also thought that FA push of LH on the first corner was way over the top. There was no need for him to put all of his car over the curb.

[janneppi]

The race was pretty dull after Alonso put Hamilton into the grass, Kovalainen couldn't keep lighter cars behind him long enough for 1 stop strategy to work properly.

Good job from Kimi.

[tinchote]

Watched the highlights again, and it looks to me that FA clearly pushed LH out of the track.

[yodasarmpit]

The FA LH first lap thing was just racing in my mind, about the only bit of excitement in the whole race.

[Simmo666]

I think, Ron thinks (and even ITV think) the move was a fair one. Alonso locked up his brakes going into the corner and so was going to run wide. I think he could have avoided going quite as wide as he did, but I think if he didn't go that wide, Hamilton may not have got the same run off the side of the track and gotten ahead going into Eau Rouge where Alonso regained the lead.

[Tazio]

Watched the highlights again, and it looks to me that FA clearly pushed LH out of the track.
I'm sorry. No sypathy for lew from this quarter.
Metaphorically speaking
If you live by the sword. So you shall die by the sword.
We only have to look back one race for evidence!!!

[Priorat]

Alonso locked up his brakes going into the corner and so was going to run wide. I think he could have avoided going quite as wide as he did, but I think if he didn't go that wide, Hamilton may not have got the same run off the side of the track and gotten ahead going into Eau Rouge where Alonso regained the lead.

I agree but still can see the bad intention in it

[jens]

Trulli hasn't scored points for 7 consecutive races. His record so far is 16 non-point-finishes in a row (1997 Hun -> 1998 Hun). The second such low tide lasted for 12 races (2005 Bel -> 2006 Gbr). And I've got a feeling that he is going to make a new personal record at that matter. :(

But a superb performance by Adrian Sutil!!! :hot: Is the combination of Gascoyne, Sutil and Ferrari engine finally starting to pay off?

[VkmSpouge]

Not a great race to be honest, with some moments of excitement further down the field.
Ferrari completely dominant with Raikkonen their only realistic hope of winning the title. Alonso had the edge on Hamilton again but still the rookie leads the title. I loved the hard and fair racing between the two at the start.
Good races for Nico Rosberg, Mark Webber (a minor miracle his car didn't break down) and Heikki Kovalainen who did well to hold off Robert Kubica in the latter stages.
Adrian Sutil did well early on but kind of spoilt it by one of his all too common errors.

[Mikeall]

Sutil did seem very fast in the early part of the race, the only problem was that he, like Trulli was two stopping while almost all the others around him were 1 stopping and in the end even the 2 stopping Sato caught him. Spyker are definitely making progress and are starting to race the other teams. Jordan/Midland/Spyker have always done well at Spa and its good to see that tradition continuing.

[tinchote]

I'm sorry. No sypathy for lew from this quarter.
Metaphorically speaking
If you live by the sword. So you shall die by the sword.
We only have to look back one race for evidence!!!

I don't have a special sympathy for LH. But, to me, this was different than Monza. LH can be wild sometimes, and I don't really have anything against that. If FA loses the car a little, then that's racing; but, in my view, after the first corner FA steered his car towards the outside to push LH out of the track.

[ioan]

There's still some hope for a Ferrari driver winning the WDC, but really a very small chance.

[Tazio]

I don't have a special sympathy for LH. But, to me, this was different than Monza. LH can be wild sometimes, and I don't really have anything against that. If FA loses the car a little, then that's racing; but, in my view, after the first corner FA steered his car towards the outside to push LH out of the track.
I agree that the move was a little over agressive.
More blood will be spilled.
I have no doubt in my mind that if the positions were reversed LH would have made an equally agressive move.
This thing could turn into a blood bath befor it's over.
I'm Lovin' it!!

[Roamy]

christ I need some red bull to stay awake for these races. when you could barely make it through Eau Rouge it was great. Not with all the electronic crap they pass each other in Eau Rouge.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Fousto...they pass somewhere? I thought that was what Pit stops were for!!!

[djparky]

great track, thoroughly boring race...great for Kimi, loved the move Alonso did on Hamilton at the start, good drive from my man Nico Rosberg...mmm not alot else to say really

[Viktory]

I didn't find the race all that boring to be honest. Happy with who occupied the top two steps of the podium too :)

[Tazio]

I didn't find the race all that boring to be honest. Happy with who occupied the top two steps of the podium too :)
My sentiment's exactly!

[Flat.tyres]

I'm sorry. No sypathy for lew from this quarter.
Metaphorically speaking
If you live by the sword. So you shall die by the sword.
We only have to look back one race for evidence!!!

I really wonder about some of the people on here. Do you really think the 2 incidents were similar :s hock:

Lewis left just over a cars width to allow fair racing, Alonso pushed Lewis completely off the track.

How are they similar?

[markabilly]

I really wonder about some of the people on here. Do you really think the 2 incidents were similar :s hock:

Lewis left just over a cars width to allow fair racing, Alonso pushed Lewis completely off the track.

How are they similar?

They were identical if you are talking the monza first corner pass with Massa, except for one samll difference:

The difference between Massa and freddie was that at Monza, Massa made room to permit LH to use the very risky outside pass and the run off area off the track, and thereby complete a pass on the outside

FA was less kind and when LH once again attempted to use outside pass move and move over to the run off area to gain an advantage coming out of the first corner, FA showed no mercy moments later.

Make no mistake, either LH gave way or the contact would be hard....then of course, Kimi moves up dramatically on both FA and LH in the WDC, as FA and LH exchange love hugs and pats on their buts on the sideline, and the FIA demands the email traffic between the two of them as part of its investigation.... :vader:

Just love videotaping the race and watching it later...was not going to do that, but just gave way.

if you videotaped it, there was about 5 to 10 minutes of real action...the rest was commercials that were more interesting and exciting then the so-called "action on the track" plus you can run the original of a key event over and over in slo-mo..... :cool:

[markabilly]

and the old rule used to be if you were inside and had the nose of your car close to the front of the car on the outside going into the corner, you got the right of way, and the other was expected to yield, especially because the insider would need the room to the outside for the exit so as to stay on track, given the trajectory and angle of curves involved.....

[ioan]

Truth is that Hamilton sticks his cars nose along the car in front and if they allow him he stays on track and tries to pass or goes of, he never backs of at the last moment no matter what.

[jens]

Although Räikkönen clearly controlled the race and deserved the win, then funnily Massa in some way was also close to winning. What do I mean? In Q3 FM lost only by 2 hundreds of a second to KR and he had heavier fuel load. If those fractions of a second had been in Felipe's favour, we would have had a similar race like in Turkey.

Also if Hamilton had somehow managed to get ahead of Alonso at Eau Rouge, then probably 3rd place would have his as LH was also running heavier than FA. So you see, everything in winning and losing is down to small nuances.

Also interesting that Fisichella's retirement was Renault's first this year due to mechanical failure! So far Renault's only retirement had been Fisichellas disqualification in Canada... Now only McLaren is the only team that has had zero retirements this season. Will this trend continue during the next three rounds as well? I think that would be a new record as I can't recall a team that hasn't had any retirements during a full season.

[ShiftingGears]

I really enjoyed that race...Kimi won, the Ferrari drivers closed the gap in the WDC, and we saw some great battles as well as some great performances from several midfield drivers, and it's the best circuit on the calendar.

[fandango]

I think Alonso did exactly the right thing to Hamilton at the start, just as I thought Massa did exactly the right thing to Alonso in Barcelona. You take the line to block the overtaking. It's called racing.

However, overtaking someone when you aren't actually on the track is unfair, as Hamilton did to Alonso. It's academic, considering the move didn't stick, but I think it would have been an illegal move.

[jorgex]

I think Alonso did exactly the right thing to Hamilton at the start, just as I thought Massa did exactly the right thing to Alonso in Barcelona. You take the line to block the overtaking. It's called racing.

However, overtaking someone when you aren't actually on the track is unfair, as Hamilton did to Alonso. It's academic, considering the move didn't stick, but I think it would have been an illegal move.

Agree.

Maybe Hamilton tried to intimidate Alonso with his first move, but Alonso is not an easy driver to intimidate. This is racing.

[janneppi]

I think Alonso did exactly the right thing to Hamilton at the start, just as I thought Massa did exactly the right thing to Alonso in Barcelona. You take the line to block the overtaking. It's called racing.

However, overtaking someone when you aren't actually on the track is unfair, as Hamilton did to Alonso. It's academic, considering the move didn't stick, but I think it would have been an illegal move.

Alonso had every chance of of giving Hamilton enough room in the track, instead he chose to run his team mate off the track.
Would you have been saying it was racing had Hamilton not given Alonso enough room the following corner and forcing him into a wall?

[markabilly]

Alonso had every chance of of giving Hamilton enough room in the track, instead he chose to run his team mate off the track.
Would you have been saying it was racing had Hamilton not given Alonso enough room the following corner and forcing him into a wall?


Hamilton put hamilton on the outside of the corner and failed to give way in his attempt to pass, then took to the run off (again) which enabled him to pull up even with FA, but Fa did not yield at all to the outside pass.

The only way that LH could be there, was once again using run-off to complete a pass

If either put either into a wall, then the FIA would be investigating....as to that particular poster, his answer to your question should be obvious

[Flat.tyres]

If my team mate had done that, I would have asked him what he thought he was doing. Looks like the gloves are well and trully off now so Freddy can expect the same treatment.

[ArrowsFA1]

Looks like the gloves are well and trully off now so Freddy can expect the same treatment.
I think Hamilton sees himself very much as the McLaren team player and, particularly in the light of recent events, sees Alonso as rival and as someone who has tried to beat McLaren from the inside. I'm not saying that is how it is, but how it appears from the outside.

Hamilton's wish to beat Ferrari has also probably been heighted by the FIA hearing as he has consistently stated his support for, and belief in, Ron Dennis and the team.

For Hamilton, Alonso is as much a rival as Massa and Raikkonen. The gloves are indeed very much off!!

[markabilly]

If my team mate had done that, I would have asked him what he thought he was doing. Looks like the gloves are well and trully off now so Freddy can expect the same treatment.

Yep, Freddie the freeloader should have asked LH what he thought he was doing beieng on the outside and then trying to use the run-off to complete a pass like that.... :D :D

[unendos]

Trulli hasn't scored points for 7 consecutive races. His record so far is 16 non-point-finishes in a row (1997 Hun -> 1998 Hun). The second such low tide lasted for 12 races (2005 Bel -> 2006 Gbr). And I've got a feeling that he is going to make a new personal record at that matter. :(

But a superb performance by Adrian Sutil!!! :hot: Is the combination of Gascoyne, Sutil and Ferrari engine finally starting to pay off?
For someone who qualifies in top 10 all the time you would think he will have as many points as probably bmw drivers.

[janneppi]

Hamilton put hamilton on the outside of the corner and failed to give way in his attempt to pass, then took to the run off (again) which enabled him to pull up even with FA, but Fa did not yield at all to the outside pass.

Hamilton essentially was driving side by side with Alonso after the first corner, giving Alonso plenty of room without turning right to force him off the track. They were well clear of the corner when Alonso decided he'd rather drive into his team mate than to be a racing car driver, accelerating side by side down the straight into the next corner and see who lifts first.

It wasn't Hamiltons fault he could have a better exit from the corner than Alonso who got stuck behind Ferraris



The only way that LH could be there, was once again using run-off to complete a pass

Which is fine by me since he didn't try to ram anyone coming back to the track. He didn't gain anything from his excursion.

[fandango]

Alonso had every chance of of giving Hamilton enough room in the track, instead he chose to run his team mate off the track.
Would you have been saying it was racing had Hamilton not given Alonso enough room the following corner and forcing him into a wall?

Alonso had the line and he held it, as every driver in a race should, indeed just as Massa did in Barcelona (I didn't agree with Alonso's moaning about that, just in case you think I'm only supporting Alonso). If Hamilton had held on at Eau Rouge and they had both gone off I would have put it down to a racing incident, so the answer to your question is yes. But in both cases Alonso had the racing line, the line everyone takes at those corners whether there's another car there or not. Of course he did it to block Hamilton at La Source, but what do you expect?

None of this changes the fact that Hamilton got ahead of Alonso between La Source and Eau Rouge while he was off the track.

[fandango]

Hamilton essentially was driving side by side with Alonso after the first corner, giving Alonso plenty of room without turning right to force him off the track....


Essentially, that is not true. Alonso was ahead from the beginning until Hamilton rejoined after being off the track.

[markabilly]

Hamilton essentially was driving side by side with Alonso after the first corner, giving Alonso plenty of room without turning right to force him off the track. They were well clear of the corner when Alonso decided he'd rather drive into his team mate than to be a racing car driver, accelerating side by side down the straight into the next corner and see who lifts first.

It wasn't Hamiltons fault he could have a better exit from the corner than Alonso who got stuck behind Ferraris


Which is fine by me since he didn't try to ram anyone coming back to the track. He didn't gain anything from his excursion.


The point of the run off area is to prevent cars from being damaged.

It is NOT there to permit them to gain an advantage to
1. be able to pull up and even be slightly ahead as hamilton was when he came back on the track.
2. or otherwise attempt to pass a car


Indeed, due to the curve having more radius when one uses the outside run off where it is asphalt, using the run off potentially makes that path much faster.....

Inside car has the right of way.
Hamilton had to go off. Can not use the off road to pull up even.

Them are suppose to be the rules.

Big difference and only difference is that Massa hurt himself at monza and gave up right of way to LH when he did not need to and then everyone whined about how Massa pushed hamilton off the track.

Nonsense.

The difference is that Hamilton got way with it at monza and did not get away with it at Spa.

You are showing your bias.
Go back and watch the tape of the race



funny, I do not remeber hearing you whining about LH putting the move on Massa and forcing him to within inches of going on the grass at the start

[Tazio]

I think Alonso did exactly the right thing to Hamilton at the start, just as I thought Massa did exactly the right thing to Alonso in Barcelona. You take the line to block the overtaking. It's called racing.

However, overtaking someone when you aren't actually on the track is unfair, as Hamilton did to Alonso. It's academic, considering the move didn't stick, but I think it would have been an illegal move.
Agree

I really wonder about some of the people on here. I Don't you really think the 2 incidents were that dissimilar

[janneppi]

Indeed, due to the curve having more radius when one uses the outside run off where it is asphalt, using the run off potentially makes that path much faster.....

Hamilton did go outside alonso to get ahead yes, but he was on the track, you know, the black stuff between the lines. It wasn't until Alonso forced him off track was he off track.



Inside car has the right of way.
since when?
This is supposed to be a race, traffic rules concerning roundabouts in Mumbai don't apply. BTW, your interpretation would mean Alonso had no place passing Ms(?) at Suzuka 2005 in 130R. :p :


Hamilton had to go off. Can not use the off road to pull up even.

Them are suppose to be the rules.
I'm sure you can quote the rule barring passing on a straight outside the track, Hamilton didn't cut a corner, he was forced wide after a corner meaning he had to go a longer route than Alonso.


You are showing your bias.
Nonsense


funny, I do not remeber hearing you whining about LH putting the move on Massa and forcing him to within inches of going on the grass at the startThe difference being inches away from grass, you now, inside the track and four meters off the track.
Had Hamilton pushed Massa off the track at Monza, I would have held the exact same position towards him as I take with Alonso.

[ShiftingGears]

The difference being inches away from grass, you now, inside the track and four meters off the track.
Had Hamilton pushed Massa off the track at Monza, I would have held the exact same position towards him as I take with Alonso.

Yes I agree. Some people mistake hard racing with dirty racing. There wasn't anything unfair at Monza - racing room was given.

[markabilly]

H
The difference being inches away from grass, you now, inside the track and four meters off the track.
Had Hamilton pushed Massa off the track at Monza, I would have held the exact same position towards him as I take with Alonso.


The difference was that to go off track at Monza meant on the grass and you know what happens then, whereas running off at Spa, meant going on to pavement



Inside move almost always has the right of way was the unwritten rule since the fifities....and one on the outside attempting a pass better be way ahead before the exit and realize he was taking a huge risk...of course that was before "the bumper cars" like we have now...

Want an example--MS/JV smackdown at WDC time about ten years ago....watch the tape and realize that MS was FULLY Committed at speed to taking the corner at max velocity that necessitated using all the roadway from the apex to the edges, when suddenly JV is there.

MS had three choices: slam on brakes and possibly spin (tires were not as good then with brakes in the middle of a corner), keep to the outside and go off track, or continue turning in as though JV was not there....he did the latter, and when the cars bumped, he did it again.

FIA held that JV had the right of way and the bumping by MS, resulted in the famous massive penalty :vader:

[janneppi]

The difference was that to go off track at Monza meant on the grass and you know what happens then, whereas running off at Spa, meant going on to pavement
So you see no other difference between Alonso forcing Hamilton off the track and Hamilton giving Massa just enough room stay on track than the type ground? ;)



Inside move almost always has the right of way was the unwritten rule since the fifities....and one on the outside attempting a pass better be way ahead before the exit and realize he was taking a huge risk...of course that was before "the bumper cars" like we have now...


There's another unwritten rule, don't push your teammate off the bloody track.



Want an example--MS/JV smackdown at WDC time about ten years ago....watch the tape and realize that MS was FULLY Committed at speed to taking the corner at max velocity that necessitated using all the roadway from the apex to the edges, when suddenly JV is there.

MS had three choices: slam on brakes and possibly spin (tires were not as good then with brakes in the middle of a corner), keep to the outside and go off track, or continue turning in as though JV was not there....he did the latter, and when the cars bumped, he did it again.

FIA held that JV had the right of way and the bumping by MS, resulted in the famous massive penalty :vader:
That example would be all fine and dandy if Hamilton had ran into Alonso's car in the exit of the corner, in reality he was as close to the edge of the track as he could when Alonso decided not to turn his car into the straight but continue right even farther to the right than Hamilton was.

MS moved onto the inside of the track leaving very little space for JV.
The two situations are completely different.
MS JV happens entering a corner, MS cuts in front of JV
LH FA happens exiting a corner, FA cuts in front of LH

[markabilly]

So you see no other difference between Alonso forcing Hamilton off the track and Hamilton giving Massa just enough room stay on track than the type ground? ;)


There's another unwritten rule, don't push your teammate off the bloody track.


That example would be all fine and dandy if Hamilton had ran into Alonso's car in the exit of the corner, in reality he was as close to the edge of the track as he could when Alonso decided not to turn his car into the straight but continue right even farther to the right than Hamilton was.

MS moved onto the inside of the track leaving very little space for JV.
The two situations are completely different.
MS JV happens entering a corner, MS cuts in front of JV
LH FA happens exiting a corner, FA cuts in front of LH

It changes nothing-- Hamilton put Hamilton there, on the outside--the only reason for the inside driver to avoid contact is to thereby avoid being tangled up in another car that should never be there.....

Ms took his racing line straight to the apex---he had lttle choice at the speed, as the other alternatives were as described--once contact occurred he did it again---but as the driver on the outside, he must be prepared to back off, if another car has the inside.

MS did not back off

LH did not back off, but he did not contact FA. If he had, the penalty should have been placed on LH, not FA

The other thread has an apropriate comment fromMickey T:

tough but fair move, i reckon. both of them.

for the first one, it's the slowest corner on the track and there's a mile of run off. two points: if you're on the outside, you make your own arrangements because you have left yourself vulnerable both in the rules and on the track. secondly, being hung out to dry there isn't a bad thing. it's effectively an alternative wide apex route around a slow corner and the fact that they arrived side by side at the next corner shows it's not a disadvantage at all.

as for eau rouge, the first part could be taken side by side (obviously) but not the second, right-hand part. it's just like any other multi-directional cornering complex, but faster. you try to put yourself on the inside of the most critical apex in the complex, which was what alonso did.

if he didn't like being hung out to dry on the outside, he should not have put himself in that position - twice.

i mean, really guys, who ever heard of the driver on the inside lifting off the throttle when he had the racing line?

the young fella's quick enough and obviously has a championship in his future, this year or later. right now, though, he's working the media as well as any champion ever has

[janneppi]

It changes nothing-- Hamilton put Hamilton there, on the outside--the only reason for the inside driver to avoid contact is to thereby avoid being tangled up in another car that should never be there.....

That's what you do in F1, if there is another car where you want be, you don't drive into it, you avoid it.

LH did not back off, but he did not contact FA. If he had, the penalty should have been placed on LH, not FA I'm not so sure about that, FA clearly held a straight line even if he had every opportunity himself to avoid that contact.

[/quote]
The other thread has an appropriate comment from Mickey T:

tough but fair move, i reckon. both of them.

for the first one, it's the slowest corner on the track and there's a mile of run off. two points: if you're on the outside, you make your own arrangements because you have left yourself vulnerable both in the rules and on the track. secondly, being hung out to dry there isn't a bad thing. it's effectively an alternative wide apex route around a slow corner and the fact that they arrived side by side at the next corner shows it's not a disadvantage at all.

as for eau rouge, the first part could be taken side by side (obviously) but not the second, right-hand part. it's just like any other multi-directional cornering complex, but faster. you try to put yourself on the inside of the most critical apex in the complex, which was what alonso did.

if he didn't like being hung out to dry on the outside, he should not have put himself in that position - twice.

i mean, really guys, who ever heard of the driver on the inside lifting off the throttle when he had the racing line?

the young fella's quick enough and obviously has a championship in his future, this year or later. right now, though, he's working the media as well as any champion ever has[/quote]

I Agree everything with that, except the first sentence. FA's move IMo was a bit dirty.
FA had a clear advantage going in to the next corners, so he had little reason to force LH of the track.

[markabilly]

If you agree with Mickey T, all "except the first sentence", then you are agreeing with me as wellas that is basically all I am saying, bearing in mind that the driver decisons are being made in micro-seconds under extreme stress.....

and the first sentence of Mickey T is the only logical conclusion to be drawn.......so it is difficult to say you agree with the rest of his quote, without having to also agree with the first sentence as well...

)and my quote button does not work, so I am cutting and pasting...)

[Tazio]

KIMI SIDES WITH ALONSO OVER HAMILTON INCIDENT
Skips Jerez to rest neck

http://www.grandprixmagazine.com/f1/F1-_Kimi_sides_with_Alonso_over_Hamilton_incident.sht ml


Raikkonen, who won the Spa-Francorchamps race and is the closest challenger to the McLaren drivers for the title, said on Wednesday: "I saw (the incident) on TV and I think there wasn't anything wrong.

"That was just part of a hard race. It will be like that for the rest of the season."

The 28-year-old also explained that he sat out the Jerez tests this week to rest his neck before the upcoming Japan-China double header.

"I try to cure my neck I hurt in the accident at Monza," said the Finn.

"I didn't have any problems with it at Spa, but I better pay some attention as we have back-to-back races ahead of us."

[markabilly]

In other words when kimi said:

"That was just part of a hard race. It will be like that for the rest of the season."

It was a warning that LH or perphaps others of no more mercy,,,ofr anyone especially someone in front of me on the standings...that hard racing...uuuhh weellle...just better look out..dudes

[markabilly]

in other words Kimi said look out dudes, no more mister nice guy...for therest of season....get on the edge and expect trouble for there be no mercy...

[jso1985]

since when Kimi was "mr nice guy" :s , not saying he was a dirty driver but... you get the idea.

[ShiftingGears]

since when Kimi was "mr nice guy" , not saying he was a dirty driver but... you get the idea.

I agree. Kimi's struck me as a very tough, yet fair racer.

[ShiftingGears]

I agree. Kimi's struck me as a very tough, yet fair racer.