Here's one for Daniel

[Brown, Jon Brow]

For the person who ridiculed me and others on the forum for buying new or near new cars.

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=401&featureid=901&pageid=2175&show=s12e2&section=Consumer




Fifth Gear conducts a fascinating world's first crash-test and even the experts can't predict the outcome. Where are you safer - a big old car, or a small new one?

We crash a 15 year old Volvo 940 estate, for many people the epitome of a solid and safe family car, into a 3 year old Renault Modus, notable as the first small car to earn a maximum 5 Star safety rating from the European New Car Assessment Program (Euro NCAP).

http://fifthgear.five.tv/features/s12e2_crashtest_10.jpg

After a 40mph head on accident it is clear that only the driver in the new car would have a chance of surviving.


Volvo
http://fifthgear.five.tv/features/s12e2_crashtest_11.jpg
The driver suffered terrible leg injuries and severe head and chest injuries due to the lack of an airbag and deformation of the dashboard.

Renault
http://fifthgear.five.tv/features/s12e2_crashtest_12.jpg
The Renault driver would have received minor leg injuries but the head and chest areas were safe.

[BeansBeansBeans]

New cars safer than old cars? Jesus, next they'll be telling us that bears defecate in wooded areas.

[Daniel]

Oh my god new cars are safer than old ones?????? Sorry what's the chance of you being involved in a bad car crash? :mark: When I jump in my 2 or 3 star car in the morning I don't fear for my life and I certainly don't need to alter my driving style because my car's not as safe as yours. I still think Clarkson's idea of mounting a spike on the steering wheel of every car is best though.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

New cars safer than old cars? Jesus, next they'll be telling us that bears defecate in wooded areas.

I'm afraid you are missing the point. In an accident between two vehicles the bigger vehicle normally comes out better. Remember this is a 2tonne Volvo crashing with a supermini. The boffins at EuroNCAP didn't know which car would emerge the better.


I'm not planning to crash my car so how safe it is doesn't matter.

[Daniel]

Yes but we're talking about apples and oranges. If you compared a new supermini and a new big car the bigger car would come off best.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Yes but we're talking about apples and oranges. If you compared a new supermini and a new big car the bigger car would come off best.

But you wouldn't be in either because its stupid to buy a new car.

[Daniel]

Huh? I was talking about the test. Not myself.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I know :uhoh:

[Alfa Fan]

I think what Jon's trying to say is that if he crashes into you in his brand new Vauxhall Corsa his parents have got him for passing his test, whilst your driving your old Volvo, despite his car being smaller, he's going to kill you in your old car whilst he'll survive thanks to the improvement in car safety. You can't avoid all accidents by just being a good driver.

[Daniel]

To which the response was "Well duh!"

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It would be interesting to find out what would happen if a 5star NCAP supermini crashed head on into a 10 year old Discovery or something. Or if two 5star cars crashed into each other. In the crash with the Volvo the Renault effectively used the front of the Volvo as another crumple zone.

[Daniel]

Wrong way of thinking. The problem with the Volvo is that it doesn't have crumple zones or at least to the same extent as the Renault. The problem is that the Volvo is using the driver as the crumple zone ;)

[Iain]

It would be interesting to find out what would happen if a 5star NCAP supermini crashed head on into a 10 year old Discovery or something.

Expect to hear from Hazell B. :laugh:

[AndyRAC]

I'm pretty sure the Grande Punto is 5*NCAP rated, I'm sure you'd know John!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Wrong way of thinking. The problem with the Volvo is that it doesn't have crumple zones or at least to the same extent as the Renault. The problem is that the Volvo is using the driver as the crumple zone ;)

And your car does as well by the looks of things :s

http://www.euroncap.com/cache/filethumbnail_20_T_mediaplayerpreview_c9b95ed7-c113-4cda-b1e2-80e58311df63_450x350.jpg

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'm pretty sure the Grande Punto is 5*NCAP rated, I'm sure you'd know John!

Yes it is :up: :D

http://www.euroncap.com/cache/filethumbnail_238_T_mediaplayerpreview_2f727f85-6081-4722-bf99-ac13d4bd49fe_450x350.jpg

Look how intact the door, door frame floor and roof are.

[Daniel]

Lovely :D same colour as mine and same wheel covers. She's a beauty she is :D

I have more important things to do than worry about how I might fare in the unlikely event of me being invoved in anything more than a fender bender. I'd rather choose a car that I'm less likely to crash. The Micra we had in Finland felt dangerous at anything more than 30kph whereas my 30 year old Pug could go around corners faster and be safer. So a crash in the Micra would have merely been safe driving in another car. Passive security is the idiot car designers way out. Making it so the accident never happens is where it's at.

The fact of the matter is most accidents aren't 40+40mph head-on crashes. Crash that 406 into another car with a combined closing speed of say 40mph or running into the back of someone at 20mph then you'll get an accident that you're actually likely to experience perhaps once in your life. Of course more safety is a good thing but I'm not losing sleep over something that's very unlikely to ever happen to me.

BTW my dad just bought a 940 too :cheese:

[Daniel]

Yes it is :up: :D

http://www.euroncap.com/cache/filethumbnail_238_T_mediaplayerpreview_2f727f85-6081-4722-bf99-ac13d4bd49fe_450x350.jpg

Look how intact the door, door frame floor and roof are.
When you have a crash because you can't feel what the contact patches of the tyres are doing then at least you know that you'll be alright :)

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Because so many new cars are gaining 5stars I've heard that the test will be made harder with a possible 6 star rating.

When the test 1st came in 1995 many people thought that 5 stars would be impossible.

Yet people try to tell us that the reason road deaths are falling is because of speed cameras :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Less accidents though.

http://www.orbit.nesdis.noaa.gov/smcd/opdb/NWA/Auto_Crash_Trends.gif

Probably more down to educations and other external factors anyway.....

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Less accidents though.


Probably more down to educations and other external factors anyway.....

Better road layout and design or easier to drive cars?

[Daniel]

Everyday cars are not really any easier to drive. Anything with power steering is easy enough for most people to drive and power steering has been around for ages. The fact that the Veyron is easier to drive than an F40 doesn't explain the decrease in accidents. I suspect a big difference is tyres, education and better road layout as you say.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Lovely same colour as mine and same wheel covers. She's a beauty she is :D


It could be worse. You could have a G-wiz :s

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/10/ngwiz10.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/05/10/ngwiz10.jpg

Euro NCAP, a body funded by the industry and Government, ploughed the car into a honeycomb block at 40mph as part of a test carried out in conjunction with Top Gear magazine. The results were devastating.

Whereas in most tests, technicians can lift out the dummy, in this case it took half an hour to extricate it from the wreckage and even then the body was removed in three pieces. The dummy hit the windscreen and shards of glass were found embedded in the head, while further damage was done by the stiff steering wheel column. In addition sharp edges in the area of the footwell would have caused serious leg injuries, including potentially fatal bleeding, according to Top Gear.


The Fiat Sciecento and Rover Metro are cars to avoid aswell.
http://www.euroncap.com/cache/filethumbnail_73_T_mediaplayerpreview_56cd42a5-c77d-4cb3-a4c5-efd897a7113f_450x350.jpg

http://www.euroncap.com/cache/filethumbnail_11_T_mediaplayerpreview_a76b75e2-9195-44d4-8758-c3ce9c04e8ec_450x350.jpg

[Malbec]

Less accidents though.

http://www.orbit.nesdis.noaa.gov/smcd/opdb/NWA/Auto_Crash_Trends.gif

Probably more down to educations and other external factors anyway.....

That graph shows that the number of accidents resulting in injury or death has reduced over the past few years, not that the total number of accidents has dropped. It does correlate with cars becoming safer.

Having said that I'm not sure how much I trust NCAP tests firstly because car manufacturers tend to design the cars around the tests themselves and not overall safety and secondly because I had heard that BMW, Honda and Mercedes were once threatened by Max Mosley that they'd have their new models NCAP ratings lowered if they didn't agree to the switch from V10s to V8s in F1. I don't think its an incorruptible system.

[Daniel]

That graph shows that the number of accidents resulting in injury or death has reduced over the past few years, not that the total number of accidents has dropped. It does correlate with cars becoming safer.

Having said that I'm not sure how much I trust NCAP tests firstly because car manufacturers tend to design the cars around the tests themselves and not overall safety and secondly because I had heard that BMW, Honda and Mercedes were once threatened by Max Mosley that they'd have their new models NCAP ratings lowered if they didn't agree to the switch from V10s to V8s in F1. I don't think its an incorruptible system.
Sorry I'm always a bit hurried when posting at work. Just did a quick google images search and didn't read the vertical axis :embarassed:

[GridGirl]

New cars might be safer but I dont think safety is a primary reason that most people by new cars. Well other than those that buy 4x4's on the basis that they are safer (primarily for the school run). :p

I'm sure my car is quite safe and much safer than the Fiesta I had when I was a young and poor student many years ago, but if I'm in a huge crash its more than likely going to hurt either whether I'm in a new or old car.

[nicemms]

I was thinking of a Sciecento as my first car untill I saw how badly it performs in a crash. I'm now thinking of a corsa - I think its a 3* which for about £1.5k isn't too bad.

[Caroline]

New cars might be safer but I dont think safety is a primary reason that most people by new cars. Well other than those that buy 4x4's on the basis that they are safer (primarily for the school run). :p



I am sure you are right!! Price, styling, poseur value and mpg will be more of a consideration when buying a new car.

[Daniel]

oh for a watertight car eh? :p

[Mark]

As I recall the car used on Fifth Gear wasn't "new" it was something like an '04 reg?

When people talk about new or nearly new they usually mean totally new, or up to 1, maybe 2 years old.