Distance of competitive stages

[ShiftingGears]

Why is it so short? I'm looking at Rallybase, telling me that the rally with the shortest amount of competitive stages in 1984 was the 1000 Lakes, with 457 km!

So why is the current maximum around 100km shorter, with presumably more stage reruns?

[bowler]

The limits are set by the FIA, after consultation with the manufacturers.

The current limit is 3 days and 350km.

[janvanvurpa]

Why is it so short? I'm looking at Rallybase, telling me that the rally with the shortest amount of competitive stages in 1984 was the 1000 Lakes, with 457 km!

So why is the current maximum around 100km shorter, with presumably more stage reruns?
Whatever the "Oafish-al" party line, some slightly cynical people might say the since the main purpose is to be a on TV spectacle, mere 350 km and stacks of repeat stage is good enough to make a TV show, and the driving force behind the TV-ization of WRC is who?.......

[bowler]

i wouldn't argue with you

[janvanvurpa]

i wouldn't argue with you

I did say a cynical person might say.
I do recall way back in the last century BR (Before Richards) that one "reason" pulled out of the hat was EU regulations governing Commercial Drivers which they chose to read as applicable to WRC drivers because some are paid, and these rules, written for HGV (poid lourdes) driver stated max permissable time behind the wheel as 8 hours per day. It was deemed that that rule could not be violated or OR!! OOOORR!??
Who knows?
A cynical person might suggest that the entire event runs under short term dispensations from the normal traffic laws and codes from the cars motors, emissions, tires, and obviously the SPEEDS we drive on erstwhile public roads.

Surely I couldn't comment...

[bowler]

hadn't heard that one.

Those rules tend to apply to commercial vehicles being operated for hire and reward.

The only cargo recently carried, to my knowledge, was some stones carried by Ford a year or two ago, and they paid for that!!

[jonkka]

So why is the current maximum around 100km shorter, with presumably more stage reruns?

For the sake of some brain exercise, can you come up with any reasons why?

[AndyRAC]

They were just using the EU rules to cut the amount of mileage, and of course the manufacturers were only too happy to agree. While of course we need the manufacturers, they have far too much say in the running of the sport. What if they decided that 100 miles was the max using only 2 stages??
Get it back to 350-400 miles over 3.5 days.

[cosmicpanda]

Rally NZ turned me off long stages from a spectator's point of view, though I'm sure from a driver's point of view they're good. At Rally NZ I got to see the WRC cars more on leg three (which was shorter in terms of stage length than leg two), purely because leg three was more compact and had more stages than leg two.

[Erki]

Rally NZ turned me off long stages from a spectator's point of view, though I'm sure from a driver's point of view they're good. At Rally NZ I got to see the WRC cars more on leg three (which was shorter in terms of stage length than leg two), purely because leg three was more compact and had more stages than leg two.

It seems that in NZRC, they normally have quite long stages, and long stage mileage - around 200+km if I recall correctly. Long stages too - I think at a recent rally(not the WRC rally), one was more than 40kms long.

One thing is also that if there was 20 separate 20+km long stages, could they also need three days for recce then?

[ShiftingGears]

For the sake of some brain exercise, can you come up with any reasons why?

To make it more like a sprint and friendlier to the casual rally fan??
Enlighten me :)


They were just using the EU rules to cut the amount of mileage.

What are these EU rules, specifically?

[jonkka]

To make it more like a sprint and friendlier to the casual rally fan??
Enlighten me :)

Note that I did not say I'd have the answers. I just asked if you could find any reasons as to why the competitive distance has been cut down (in fact continuously since 1986).

[Livewireshock]

Not that I am a total fan of the sprint format but I can guess why it has been favoured in recent years.


Allows for a single service park more easily with out long transports.
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Refuel points can be more centralised.
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Medical & other safety vehicles can be centrally held amongst a group of stages, this is after FIV or Officials have called for assistance.
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Easier access for media crews covering the event.
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Able to control spectators on a known set route. Not spread out for proverbial miles & miles.
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Spectators & media can move more easily from stage to stage. Spectators develop a sense of seeing a majority of an event.
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Means that less volunteers are needed to staff each stage
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Access to lengthy stages. Governments do not want to inconvenience too many people.
[/*:m:4yrh5ntn]
Double stage length & quadruple the amount of possible risks. Insurance companies believe it can be too much.[/*:m:4yrh5ntn].

Personally, I would like to see a varied championship with marathon events like the old East Coast Safari coupled with sprint format of now. It adds an extra development & interest, to see how long a car can endure an event.

[BDunnell]

I have never heard of this EU ruling. As far as my memory goes, rally distances started to be cut towards the end of 1986 after the Group B accidents that year. The RAC, for instance, did away with its proper night stages. Obviously, since then there have been further cuts, which I would say have more to do with the desire to make the WRC more TV-friendly.

Livewireshock is right — there should be a balance between different types of event, in all sorts of ways.

[jonkka]

Allows for a single service park more easily with out long transports.[/*:m:9mpsniat]
etc[/*:m:9mpsniat].


Excellent list, Live! As you see, there are pros and cons in each decision. What started as a safety measure in 1986 has now continued on grounds of media friendliness and cost cuts. Repeated stages do cut down the time needed for recce but at the same time it was a death blow to San Remo where spectator congestation was bad even before and became impossible with stage repeats. Clover leaf format and centralized servicing has cut down the men and material needed to service the team's cars but I think that much of those savings have been put into grander VIP and PR facilities, WRC service area is more like F1 paddock these days.

Shorter route, which is the meat of this thread, has perhaps gone a bit too far or at least in my opinion there should not be any further cuts in competitive distance. Going back to four-day events is not an option, Friday is a bit problematic as it stands (being weekday and all).

[BDunnell]

Shorter route, which is the meat of this thread, has perhaps gone a bit too far or at least in my opinion there should not be any further cuts in competitive distance. Going back to four-day events is not an option, Friday is a bit problematic as it stands (being weekday and all).

This comes back to what I said about a mixture of events being a good option. You could have some run over four days (the optimum length, in my opinion) mixed with the odd event as short as 24 hours, but running day and night, as the Ulster Rally used to do.

[Langdale Forest]

Will the Safari rally ever be used in the WRC again?
Some of the stages there were very long.

[A.F.F.]

Will the Safari rally ever be used in the WRC again?
Some of the stages there were very long.

I managed to download Rally review from 1985 and while I watched it, I asked the very same question. Safari was an adventure back then. :up:

[Langdale Forest]

What is the length of the longest Safari stage?

[leno]

i'm too young to watch rally Safari but i think i would loved it when i read these comments! where can i download any safari rally video??

[FAL]

Seeing the words Langdale Forest, the longest UK stage used (without lapping) was not a million miles from there and was I think 43 miles. You have to do back to 1966 though...

[A.F.F.]

What is the length of the longest Safari stage?

It's gotta be over 210 km.

Jonkka, Tjeerd, Jaanus, care to help ?

[jonkka]

It's gotta be over 210 km.

Jonkka, Tjeerd, Jaanus, care to help ?

Problematic question because Safari never had stages. Up until 1996 it was a route that only had passage controls, no stages at all. In 1996 the term competitive section was introduced and that is closest thing they had for a stage but it was not closed to public traffic (which was Safari's major shortcoming).

Longest competitive section has been 214.80 km long CS14 Seyabei from 1996.

[Langdale Forest]

What is the difference of sections between passage controls and CS?

[jonkka]

What is the difference of sections between passage controls and CS?

Passage control is just a control to verify that all crews complete the entire route, it is in fact quite similar to time control except that time card is not stamped with time (and hence no time penalties apply), only passage is marked. Failure to go through the passage control leads to exclusion.

Competitive section was Safari's equivalent to Special Stage. The different between two were that CS was not closed to public traffic (SS always is) and CS was timed to the second even when SS was already timed to tenth of a second. Before Competitive Sections, entire Safari route formed the timed competition but when CS were introduced, non-CS sections were road sections like in any other rally and only CS were timed.

[Langdale Forest]

What was the longest Special Stage that was not part of the Safari Rally?

[Josti]

Corsica used to have some long stages in the eightees. The events were over a 1000 km's of distance (stage mileage) and mostly run over 30 or less stages. After Corsica 1986, I think no stage has been longer than 40 km's other then a few exceptions.

[Langdale Forest]

After Corsica 1986, I think no stage has been longer than 40 km's other then a few exceptions.

Do you mean all non-Safari events or just Corsica?

There was a 48km atage in Greece this year.

[Josti]

Do you mean all non-Safari events or just Corsica?

There was a 48km atage in Greece this year.

This was set for all events. As I said, there are some exceptions. Rally these days have an itinerary around 300 km's, whereas till 10/15 years ago about 500/600 km's. Before Corsica '86 they were even longer.

That 48 km stage on Greece is a big exception. Most of the other stages where pretty short.

[SubaruNorway]

We had a 44km stage in Rally Norway, wasen't there a stage in Japan a few years ago wich was over 50km i think

[jonkka]

What was the longest Special Stage that was not part of the Safari Rally?

I am not 100% certain if it's all-time longest but for example 1976 Morocco had a monster stage, SS8 Transmarocaine was 776 kilometers long.

[Langdale Forest]

How many miles would that be?

http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=result&rallyid=353

1661km over 9 stages, that 'monster' stage would be almost half the distance! :s hock:

[kyosti]

Some Corsica stages;
Saint-Sauveur, 85,8 K's
Abbazia, 99 K's
Saint-Antoine, 97,6 K's
Ponte-Nuovo, 88,2 K's
ALL during the 1978 edition.

[dimviii]

in paraguay there is a rally with the name TRANS CHACO
Markku Allen was invited to run with a deltona lancia by the president Raul Cubas
one of the stage was 68 km long
Allen when finished this stage had a time of 21m 26secs
he felt that it was agood time ,average was191km/h
then he discovered that he had beaten by a teenage driver Alex Galanti who took less than 19 minuteswhich represented 216 km/h :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

from WORLD RALLYING No 27 Martin Holmes

[Langdale Forest]

216km/h average speed, now that IS fast!!!!!!! :hot: :eek: :cool:

[jso1985]

Rally Trans Chaco :up: :D maybe going flat out on huge straights isn't proper rallying but hey it's still pretty much fun :D

[cosmicpanda]

It seems that in NZRC, they normally have quite long stages, and long stage mileage - around 200+km if I recall correctly. Long stages too - I think at a recent rally(not the WRC rally), one was more than 40kms long.

One thing is also that if there was 20 separate 20+km long stages, could they also need three days for recce then?

You're correct about the NZRC, at the recent Rally of Whangarei which is what I think you refer to the Bull/Cassidy stage was over 40 km (I think - this is going by memory). I think this rally basically used exactly the same roads as the 2005 rally of NZ but without the Raglan stages.