Fuel burn in Q3 to get the axe for 2008?

[Hawkmoon]

Seems like the teams want to get rid of the useless fuel burn phase of Q3. I'm all for it, just as long as they don't replace it with something stupid like a single lap. Let the drivers do as many laps as they like and let the best man win!

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070905171053.shtml



Key formula one figures are scheduled to meet ahead of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza this week with the aim of tweaking the qualifying format for 2008.

The current so-called 'knockout' system has been generally embraced since it debuted last season.

But, in conjunction with the parallel parc fermé regulations which require cars to qualify with initial race-levels of fuel in the final Q3 session, it sparked an unwelcome phenomenon known as the 'fuel burn.'

These opening laps of the top ten runout are not only tedious, but - given their objective for the drivers of simply burning fuel and earning 'credits' to add more fuel before the race - also controversial in a political sense.

"I think we've got to find a way of getting rid of the fuel burning laps, which is just a completely strange thing to do given we're all becoming eco-friendly," Renault Technical Director Bob Bell, who otherwise praised the knockout format, said in the team's pre-Monza official podcast this week.

Renault Engineering Director Pat Symonds is a wholehearted supporter of the current qualifying format, but he admitted that the fuel burning "is not good."

He added: "Interestingly we're talking about that tomorrow with a view to getting rid of it for 2008."

[tinchote]

You see, this is smart people talking! It only took them two years to figure it out... ;) :D

[wmcot]

About time!!! In addition to looking better for the environment, it should save a decent amount of money in wasted fuel. Racing fuel can't be cheap!!!

[Henry Cutts]

Its about time, why cant they just nominate the starting fuel load before Final qualifying. Then after put the race fuel in.

[Giuseppe F1]

Thank God!

Forget 2008, they should push to bin it fior the rest of this season -

Boring to watch, the whole eco-message, it was a useless addition to F1 weekends - Glad to see the back of it!

[ioan]

Its about time, why cant they just nominate the starting fuel load before Final qualifying. Then after put the race fuel in.

They shouldn't nominate anything.
Places 11 to 22 do not nominate their fuel loads before qualifying either!

[ShiftingGears]

They shouldn't nominate anything.
Places 11 to 22 do not nominate their fuel loads before qualifying either!

I agree. I'd be glad to see it gone.

[inimitablestoo]

Me too; qualifying with race fuel has added precisely nothing to the spectacle these last few years. All it's meant is cars making their first pit stops on about lap 8. If it was up to me I'd let them all start on whatever fuel loads they like and replace the current Q3 with a return to the one-lap system. Although a direct repeat of the first two sessions would be fine with me too.

[GP-M3]

You guys are all forgetting one important thing and the reason for nominating race fuel - to get the cars on the track. Otherwise they will go out in the last five minutes and try for a fast lap and that will be it. They way they had it, at least we (and importantly spectators at the track) get to see cars on track the whole time.

The only thing I can think of to keep the cars on track would be to require an average of two or three fast laps, that way the cars could go our right away, do a fast lap, come in for tires... back out, tires... back out.

Should be enough for three fast runs. But it's not intuitive like just looking at the fastest lap.


Its about time, why cant they just nominate the starting fuel load before Final qualifying. Then after put the race fuel in.

[wmcot]

You guys are all forgetting one important thing and the reason for nominating race fuel - to get the cars on the track. Otherwise they will go out in the last five minutes and try for a fast lap and that will be it. They way they had it, at least we (and importantly spectators at the track) get to see cars on track the whole time.

The only thing I can think of to keep the cars on track would be to require an average of two or three fast laps, that way the cars could go our right away, do a fast lap, come in for tires... back out, tires... back out.

Should be enough for three fast runs. But it's not intuitive like just looking at the fastest lap.

How about shortening Q3 to 5 minutes? That would lead to plenty of action! There also wouldn't be much opportunity to fix any problems so everything would have to run smoothly.

[Firstgear]

Put in race fuel and forget fuel credits. To keep the cars out on track for longer in Q3 make them average their best lap on the hard tyres with the best lap on the soft tyres. They have to use both during the race, why not mandate that you have to qualify using both as well. You could even split Q3 into two halves. Q3a is 10mins. on soft tyres & Q3b is 10mins. on the hard.

[inimitablestoo]

How about shortening Q3 to 5 minutes? That would lead to plenty of action! There also wouldn't be much opportunity to fix any problems so everything would have to run smoothly.

I'm just imagining this at Spa, in the wet... :eek:

[GP-M3]

It looks like that is what they are going to have. Put in the fuel you want to start with, (plus a bit extra for an out/qually/in lap) and do a run. Perhaps cut into your race fuel if you mess the original lap to try another.

They completely forgot the idea was to

A) Be interesting,
and B) To have the cars actualy doing laps, as A) That's interesting.

Seems like we will now just have a few laps from the top guys, and the main part of the "attraction" for Saturdays will be to watch the mid-field guys trying to get into Q3.

I think it would be better to keep the 15 mins for Q3 and do an average of two or better 3 flying laps.


How about shortening Q3 to 5 minutes? That would lead to plenty of action! There also wouldn't be much opportunity to fix any problems so everything would have to run smoothly.

[jso1985]

They completely forgot the idea was to

A) Be interesting,
and B) To have the cars actualy doing laps, as A) That's interesting.



that can be quite relative isn't it?

to me single lap qualifying was interesting

[Hawkmoon]

It seems like the best they could come up with was simply shortening Q3.

Just get rid of race fuel you idiots! It's not that hard! :mad:

[tinchote]

Just get rid of race fuel you idiots! It's not that hard! :mad:

Apparently it is. It's unbelievable how much they have screwed with the qualy :s

[71minus2]

there are hundreds of quali options.

Single Lap
2 session single lap
the current knockout option.
the old go for it unless its a bit damp then nothing for 45 minutes
personally i'd have 30 minutes free for all (all drivers to set a time in each 15 min block) then a second free for all where you race against the person next to you on the grid. 1st half hour sets the rows, the second sets the position on those rows poleside or not.

got to be better than the environment mullering fuel burn!

[Valve Bounce]

Apparently it is. It's unbelievable how much they have screwed with the qualy :s


I think the idea was to prevent a slack period at hte start of the session when there is nobody on the track. Bernie wanted the television cameras to be showing something.

I have always favoured a 30 minute Q3 with two 15 minute sections where cars can run 3 laps in each quarter hour. That would ensure that there is no slack period for the telly.

[Hotlavaaaa]

Why don't they just let them declare how much fuel they want to start the race with and then have them run low fuel to see who actually has the fastest car? Cut Q3 down to 10 minutes so the cars have to be out if they want to make more than one attempt. Am I missing something in the reasoning behind qualifying with race fuel?

[truefan72]

I say that they cotinue with the theory they had in Q1 and Q2,
1. Race fuel be damned
2. Make another 10 minute session to determine positions 6-10
3. then a final 10 minute segment for positions 5-1
4. cars must run at least 3 timed laps in each segment
(therefore with in and out laps we will see drivers on the track)