Getting infractions for no reason

[Hendersen]

Moderator Janneppi gave me an infraction for no reason, claiming it was for "inappropriate language". The word I said, in the USA at least, just means a man that is stupid, similar to moron/jackass. Given what words I've seen used around here, I'm at a loss how it could be deemed "inappropriate". Additionally, despite immediately asking him via private message what the deal was and what exactly was "inappropriate" about the language he has refused to return back any answer. And, again, I immidately questioned his actions via private message and have waited awhile after sending it.

Addiitonally, instead of removing the one word I can only assume was the issue, he removed an entire chunk of a paragraph that was critical of a specific driver, but left the rest of the post.

This smascks of bogus moderating by someone that was not happy with one of his favorite drivers being criticized and has no place happening on any message board that wants to retain any members.

Edit: and to be perfectly clear the word was clearly directed at a specific driver, not a poster or somesuch.

[janneppi]

The word twit is ok by my standards, the one with an "a" isn't, guess which one you used? :rolleyes:

And furthermore, Hamilton isn't my favourite driver by any means.

[pino]

Moderator Janneppi gave me an infraction for no reason, claiming it was for "inappropriate language". The word I said, in the USA at least, just means a man that is stupid, similar to moron/jackass. Given what words I've seen used around here, I'm at a loss how it could be deemed "inappropriate". Additionally, despite immediately asking him via private message what the deal was and what exactly was "inappropriate" about the language he has refused to return back any answer. And, again, I immidately questioned his actions via private message and have waited awhile after sending it.

Addiitonally, instead of removing the one word I can only assume was the issue, he removed an entire chunk of a paragraph that was critical of a specific driver, but left the rest of the post.

This smascks of bogus moderating by someone that was not happy with one of his favorite drivers being criticized and has no place happening on any message board that wants to retain any members.

Edit: and to be perfectly clear the word was clearly directed at a specific driver, not a poster or somesuch.


The infraction was well deserved, and wilst here, let me remind you that last week you've posted (F1 forum) an huge insult towards a member. You were lucky to not get a ban for that, but I can assure you it won't happen again...

[Hendersen]

The infraction was well deserved, and wilst here, let me remind you that last week you've posted (F1 forum) an huge insult towards a member. You were lucky to not get a ban for that, but I can assure you it won't happen again...


Complete BS. I don't recall doing any such thing. And with arbitrary, jingoistic, and bigotted moderation, who cares about this place? Who is this place, btw. I'd like an email address.

[pino]

Complete BS. I don't recall doing any such thing. And with arbitrary, jingoistic, and bigotted moderation, who cares about this place? Who is this place, btw. I'd like an email address.

You don't care about this place ? we don't care about you...bye :wave:

[Daniel]

It's the Banneppi and Pino show :D Good stuff :up:

[RaceFanStan]

You don't care about this place ? we don't care about you...bye :wave:
:D :up:

[tinchote]

Man, having caught this thread earlier would have made for a certain pick at the "who'll be banned next" thread ;) :p :

[Flat.tyres]

Man, having caught this thread earlier would have made for a certain pick at the "who'll be banned next" thread ;) :p :

Hey, is there a sweep-stake.

I vote..... Me :D

Mind you, I'll probably get another 3 points for tempting fate. I seem to get them for sneezing these days :laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

I am 100% behind our moderators. They do a great job in keeping this place enjoyable for as many members here as possible while trying to prevent certain members from attacking others here. This is a thankless task, for which they are not paid, and which they do to keep the peace here.

Of course there are disadvantages being a moderator; mostly they cannot come out with the more outrageous nonsense that I sometimes post.

Keep up the good work guys! Know that I am glad you are here for us.

[leopard]

Hey, is there a sweep-stake.

I vote..... Me :D

Mind you, I'll probably get another 3 points for tempting fate. I seem to get them for sneezing these days :laugh:

No....F1 needs culprit :D :p :

[Dave B]

It's natural that competitive sport should bring out rivalries, and if the member in question can't stand a particular driver then who am I to argue?

But if a member can't put their case across without resorting to insults and racism, then we can do without them.

If we still had "rep", I'd give pino and janneppi a bucketful!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

What did I miss :erm:

[Storm]

Additionally?

[trumperZ06]

:D I'm off to scrounge up a supply of Single Malt...

and some XXXL Pizzas... with Hairy Fish !!!!

;) Trumper.... should be ok... as long as supplies last.

[RaikkonenRules]

Grr why does all the interesting stuff happen while I'm on holiday? :(

[Flat.tyres]

Grr why does all the interesting stuff happen while I'm on holiday? :(

Interesting? I find it bloody confusing :laugh:

I find there are a lot of double standards on here and some Moderators tend to impose levies against their personal opinions on people rather than their behaviour.

Arrows I always found to be a very level headed Moderator who whould encourage debate and pull you up when you overstepped the line. It's a pity some others do not live up to his high standards.

For example, people here can post outright lies about what you've said and just because you respond that it was "total and utter Bullsh*t" then you get 3 points for 3 months. I'm sorry but what is so wrong with writing the truth? It was bullsh*t and it was easily proved to be lies but you still end up with 3 points.

I suppose if I had my nose up someones posterior, it would have been seen as a fair comment. I've seen much worse.

If the forum is to be run as some little kiddies sycophant club then just
admit it and ban those that dont fit in or kiss enough butt but why not drop the pretence of this pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating.

<sits back and awaits another 3 points for feedback :p :>

[Daniel]

Interesting? I find it bloody confusing :laugh:

I find there are a lot of double standards on here and some Moderators tend to impose levies against their personal opinions on people rather than their behaviour.

Arrows I always found to be a very level headed Moderator who whould encourage debate and pull you up when you overstepped the line. It's a pity some others do not live up to his high standards.

For example, people here can post outright lies about what you've said and just because you respond that it was "total and utter Bullsh*t" then you get 3 points for 3 months. I'm sorry but what is so wrong with writing the truth? It was bullsh*t and it was easily proved to be lies but you still end up with 3 points.

I suppose if I had my nose up someones posterior, it would have been seen as a fair comment. I've seen much worse.

If the forum is to be run as some little kiddies sycophant club then just
admit it and ban those that dont fit in or kiss enough butt but why not drop the pretence of this pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating.

<sits back and awaits another 3 points for feedback :p :>
I think you might get a 12 pointer for that :)

[janneppi]

For example, people here can post outright lies about what you've said and just because you respond that it was "total and utter Bullsh*t" then you get 3 points for 3 months. I'm sorry but what is so wrong with writing the truth? It was bullsh*t and it was easily proved to be lies but you still end up with 3 points.

What's wrong with just saying that's a lie and leaving it there? :confused:
It doesn't take a genius to figure out it's not ok to use language that has to go around the swear word filter now does it?
You have been asked to be civil about your dealings with members and you don't seem to get the point.
There is a reason you have infractions on your belt and it isn't your opinions on F1 or general issues, it's because you behave the way you do. as you said earlier, maybe your place isn't here.

I'm all for constructive criticism and if you feel you have been wronged, you should ask what was the issue, I don't pretend I'm perfect and some times might get it wrong, but public moaning about it won't help, that's for sure.

[inimitablestoo]

To paraphrase a scene from the brilliant KYTV (because I can't be bothered digging out the actual episode right now):

"On this station, for example, you can't say ****, ****, ******, ****, **** or tits."

"But you just said tits."

"Yes, but it'll get edited out."

[pino]

Interesting? I find it bloody confusing :laugh:

I find there are a lot of double standards on here and some Moderators tend to impose levies against their personal opinions on people rather than their behaviour.

Arrows I always found to be a very level headed Moderator who whould encourage debate and pull you up when you overstepped the line. It's a pity some others do not live up to his high standards.

For example, people here can post outright lies about what you've said and just because you respond that it was "total and utter Bullsh*t" then you get 3 points for 3 months. I'm sorry but what is so wrong with writing the truth? It was bullsh*t and it was easily proved to be lies but you still end up with 3 points.

I suppose if I had my nose up someones posterior, it would have been seen as a fair comment. I've seen much worse.

If the forum is to be run as some little kiddies sycophant club then just
admit it and ban those that dont fit in or kiss enough butt but why not drop the pretence of this pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating.

<sits back and awaits another 3 points for feedback :p :>

If you haven't figured out yet, F1 forum is a special forum and needs different rules in order to keep it cleaned, and comfortable for those people who's there to talk F1 racing only. I know I am not as good as ArrowsFA1 and Andrea, but as long the owner of this Board (Mark) is satisfied with my work, I will stick with my policy and my way to do things. As for my double standard please prove it...

[Mark]

you respond that it was "total and utter Bullsh*t" then you get 3 points for 3 months. I'm sorry but what is so wrong with writing the truth? It was bullsh*t and it was easily proved to be lies but you still end up with 3 points.

Using that sort of language is never acceptable. No matter what the situation. I'm sure you went to school and were brought up correctly by your parents, therefore you will have sufficient vocabluary to be able to express yourself without resorting to swear words.

If you did get 3 points it was because of your bad language, not because you disagreed with someones post, something which is encouraged!

[Flat.tyres]

What's wrong with just saying that's a lie and leaving it there? :confused:
It doesn't take a genius to figure out it's not ok to use language that has to go around the swear word filter now does it?
You have been asked to be civil about your dealings with members and you don't seem to get the point.
There is a reason you have infractions on your belt and it isn't your opinions on F1 or general issues, it's because you behave the way you do. as you said earlier, maybe your place isn't here.

I'm all for constructive criticism and if you feel you have been wronged, you should ask what was the issue, I don't pretend I'm perfect and some times might get it wrong, but public moaning about it won't help, that's for sure.

OK, as far as constructive criticism goes, I think I have given some and for my troubles I have it confirmed that perhaps my place isn't here :rolleyes:

I appreciate that getting around a swear filter may not be particulaly PC on this forum but we are a varied bunch of people with different cultures, lifestyles and standards of education. In my cultural environment, it is quite normal for someone to say your talking sh*t or bullsh*tting without it being a personal attack. It is merely part of the commonly accepted and used language but if it is offensive to use *'s or abbreviate it to BS for example, then please make that clear as you should be handing out hundreds of infractions per day if there is any consistency. Personally, I think the use of the word is an excuse on the behalf on the Mods as you find my abrupt, no nonsense approach too abrasive for the thinner skinned members that constently spout BS, troll and flame.

For the record Jan, I have no problem with you and was not referring to you in my previous post but I hope I have clarified why I feel the use of infractions is not being applied in a consistant manner.

[Flat.tyres]

Using that sort of language is never acceptable. No matter what the situation. I'm sure you went to school and were brought up correctly by your parents, therefore you will have sufficient vocabluary to be able to express yourself without resorting to swear words.

If you did get 3 points it was because of your bad language, not because you disagreed with someones post, something which is encouraged!

So, this is going to be a consistant policy is it? I wonder..... ;)

[janneppi]

I appreciate that getting around a swear filter may not be particulaly PC on this forum but we are a varied bunch of people with different cultures, lifestyles and standards of education.
And that is exactly why we should hold our tongues when in an argument, what is acceptable for you, might be a huge insult to someone else, let alone if it's misunderstood, which is very easy as most languages aren't fully compatible in words and especially in meanings.


For the record Jan, I have no problem with you and was not referring to you in my previous post but I hope I have clarified why I feel the use of infractions is not being applied in a consistant manner.I was the one who gave an infraction to your post about people lying about your posts, so who else are you talking about?
Mind you, Arrows has given you at least one infraction for the same kind of issues, so you seem to have problems taking a hint. ;)

[Flat.tyres]

As for my double standard please prove it...

OK, the word "Bitches" is not considered polite in some circles but please direct your attention to the following.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=288474&postcount=159

Did this incident end up in a infraction or warning?

Just curious ;)

[Mark]

Does every incident of dropping litter result in a fine or warning?
Does every time a car driver exceeds 70mph result in a fine?

[Flat.tyres]

And that is exactly why we should hold our tongues when in an argument, what is acceptable for you, might be a huge insult to someone else, let alone if it's misunderstood, which is very easy as most languages aren't fully compatible in words and especially in meanings.

Hold our tongues? I thought this is a discussion forum where we openly discuss opinions and argue the toss.

I find it personally insulting that a member can post a complete lie and rather than the Mods sanction them for obvious trolling, they sanction the person that reports the post for said trolling. :laugh: That's rich :laugh:

Talk about shooting the messenger ;)

So, members like ioan can go around lying and using the work bullsh*t with impunity where if people take exception and respond, they get infractions.

How many examples of double standards does pino want?


I was the one who gave an infraction to your post about people lying about your posts, so who else are you talking about?
Mind you, Arrows has given you at least one infraction for the same kind of issues, so you seem to have problems taking a hint. ;)


Sorry, I agree it was you that gave me those 3 points. I thought it was Pino as I was particularly annoyed about a rather arbitary PM from him (and another 3 points) for a honest mistake. I can't help it if he doesn't like me and don't really care but perhaps he could try to be a little more even handed and less confrontational?

As for the infraction from Arrows, I agree, I was annoyed and out of order. I accepted it and attempted not to duplicate the infraction. In the two instances I've quoted, I don't believe I had and maintain that the infraction were unwarrented.

Still, that's your choice but this is a forum to give feedback so that's what I'm doing. Use it as you will. Take it on board if you want or wipe the virtual butt with it. I don't really care.

[Daniel]

Hold our tongues? I thought this is a discussion forum where we openly discuss opinions and argue the toss.

I find it personally insulting that a member can post a complete lie and rather than the Mods sanction them for obvious trolling, they sanction the person that reports the post for said trolling. :laugh: That's rich :laugh:

Talk about shooting the messenger ;)

So, members like ioan can go around lying and using the work bullsh*t with impunity where if people take exception and respond, they get infractions.

How many examples of double standards does pino want?




Sorry, I agree it was you that gave me those 3 points. I thought it was Pino as I was particularly annoyed about a rather arbitary PM from him (and another 3 points) for a honest mistake. I can't help it if he doesn't like me and don't really care but perhaps he could try to be a little more even handed and less confrontational?

As for the infraction from Arrows, I agree, I was annoyed and out of order. I accepted it and attempted not to duplicate the infraction. In the two instances I've quoted, I don't believe I had and maintain that the infraction were unwarrented.

Still, that's your choice but this is a forum to give feedback so that's what I'm doing. Use it as you will. Take it on board if you want or wipe the virtual butt with it. I don't really care.
You an argue all you like. There's no need to go and use bad language. If you have a look at the global warming thread in chit chat you'll see a perfect example of how people can disagree and have different viewpoints and not need to swear.

If someone wants to post their opinion which is not correct that's their thing. You go on about being able to argue but if someone can't argue their point by posting their "lies" then what's the point of a discussion? It seems to me that if you don't agree with something then it's a lie.

If you see someone posting something you see to be a lie you should try to correct them before attacking them and swearing and so on......

Just my .8p (AU 2c)

[Flat.tyres]

You an argue all you like.

I'm giving feedback on something that I feel needs to be highlighted but thankyou anyway ;)


There's no need to go and use bad language. I didn't consider it to be bad language or prohibited because what I wrote is used on numerous occassions on the forum without an eyelid being batted. So, if I wrote that something was "Bull", or "BS", would that be OK even though they are abreviations of the swear word just as what I wrote is? So, if BS is ok, is it also OK to call someone a MF'er as you're not actually using a swear word or getting round the filter? I don't think so and never would but I don't see the problem with saying someone is writing BS when it's obvious that they are and the same person never tries to back up what they write on these occassions and as the Mods cannot be everywhere to stop these people trolling, it's up to the members to pick them up on it.


If someone wants to post their opinion which is not correct that's their thing. You go on about being able to argue but if someone can't argue their point by posting their "lies" then what's the point of a discussion? It seems to me that if you don't agree with something then it's a lie.So, if someone posts lies about you on a thread, you ignore it and move on or do you pick them up on it. Think about it Daniel. As for me not agreeing with people, that happens a lot but I listen to peoples opinions and digest what they are saying. It's only when I come across obvious trolling (which is banned on most forums) that I respond as I think we all should. Please point out anywhere on this forum where I haven't to back up your claim.


If you see someone posting something you see to be a lie you should try to correct them before attacking them and swearing and so on......

Just my .8p (AU 2c)Saying something is BS is NOT attacking them. It's pointing out a fact as the dictionary definition of BS is slang for someone speaking lies or nonsense. However, it has been pointed out to me, by way of a 3 point infraction, that this is unnaceptable and I expect the Mods to continue this policy of enforcing a total swearing ban with draconian punishments from now on.

[Daniel]

There was a post on this forum of a rather personal nature which included lies. I reported it to a moderator and it was promptly deleted. The mods here take it seriously when people start getting that personal.

There are other people on this forum so don't judge the forums standards to be the same as yours. There are young children and people who just generally don't want to read language that isn't nice. I myself don't mind the odd swear word like "wtf?" or "bs" as long as it's not directed at anyone on this forum and as long as people can get along from day to day without people having to use it in every post when they get a bit unhappy.

I've been banned many times and sometimes I haven't agreed with it but on the whole I know that most of the times were warranted and the fact that I've misbehaved in the past means I get treated more harshly than other and need to be more careful with what I say to people. Perhaps you should understand that the way you've come across makes you somewhat of a target? I've met Pino and Janneppi in person and he's neither of them are vindictive or vengeful so just play nice and it'll all be good. Everytime I see someone who's not a complete whackjob get banned I feel extremely sad because that's a possibly valid opinion that won't be voiced on this forum and that's a loss for everyone. You don't want those people who are posting misleading information to become the majority now do you? :mark:

At the end of the day you can express a strong opinion without directing foul language at someone and still get over the point.

[janneppi]

So, members like ioan can go around lying and using the work bullsh*t with impunity where if people take exception and respond, they get infractions.

What makes you think you're the only one getting infactions on bad language? There are people getting them who don't either bother wasting their time trying to argue them away, or accept they were perhaps bit out of line and move on. True, we don't respond to everything we see, or is reported to us, this is a subjective issue and my mood may have affect my decicions, as well as the person in question. I usually pay attention more on certain posters who i know have been stepping outside what is acceptable.

[tinchote]

I'm giving feedback on something that I feel needs to be highlighted but thankyou anyway ;)


Through more than 5 years on these forums I have seen my fair share of agressive people, and I have to tell you that you get quite a high rank on that department.

Agression is not only about the vocabulary, but also about the way it is used. And in your case, I have to say that I was impressed by your agression since the first time I saw your posts. So maybe it's about time you think a little about your own posts rather than trying to blame everything on the moderators.

[leopard]

Talking in public forum sometimes isn't something easy. When we have to be serious, joke, and harassment, are oftentimes indistinguishable. It's always in my mind of the worries that my post is not pleasant for certain person, although I never have intention to hurt anyone.
In many cases some posters have their thought in cross of my opinion, I will never mind to read all their posts, having an objection on certain post means we suffer from a loss on learning something new.

Relating to improper word or language used by member, each member have different parameter judging it polite or not. Hence we can't generalize each moderator as a character, they have different point of view on something.

I think all moderators have their own right we have to thank for all their job facilitating this forum where we can talk and discuss each other, and besides that this forum is one of sources, after all moderated forums are usually the better place to talk. imo.


...I know I am not as good as ArrowsFA1 and Andrea, but as long the owner of this Board (Mark) is satisfied with my work, I will stick with my policy and my way to do things...

I haven't seen any post of Andrea, so I can't make any comparison of her/him to other moderator team. :andrea: :)

[SteveA]

Relating to improper word or language used by member, each member have different parameter judging it polite or not.

Its also important to bear in mind that many people are posting in a foreign (to them) language. They may seem rude, impolite or abrupt simply because they have directly translated something which is perfectly acceptable in their native language.

[Mark]

It's worth pointing out (again) that moderators don't have the time to fully read every post, so if someone has been causing trouble then they are going to attract the moderators attention first, because they are more likely to cause trouble again.

So if you get in trouble with a moderator once, remember they will be watching you carefully, so don't be surprised if you get pulled up again.

[leopard]

Its also important to bear in mind that many people are posting in a foreign (to them) language. They may seem rude, impolite or abrupt simply because they have directly translated something which is perfectly acceptable in their native language.

I found it easy to distinguish which word was made harshly and which word may seem impolite for poor vocabulary, sounds fabricating :)

[Flat.tyres]

Talking in public forum sometimes isn't something easy. When we have to be serious, joke, and harassment, are oftentimes indistinguishable. It's always in my mind of the worries that my post is not pleasant for certain person, although I never have intention to hurt anyone.
In many cases some posters have their thought in cross of my opinion, I will never mind to read all their posts, having an objection on certain post means we suffer from a loss on learning something new.

Relating to improper word or language used by member, each member have different parameter judging it polite or not. Hence we can't generalize each moderator as a character, they have different point of view on something.

I think all moderators have their own right we have to thank for all their job facilitating this forum where we can talk and discuss each other, and besides that this forum is one of sources, after all moderated forums are usually the better place to talk. imo.



I haven't seen any post of Andrea, so I can't make any comparison of her/him to other moderator team. :andrea: :)

Very good points that are very well put.

I think that by and large the Mods here do a fantastic job but just as the Mods have the authority to maintain a status quo, which they do in the majority of situations, there is also a forum on here, this one, where members have the duty to highlight areas that they are concerned about which is what I am doing.

I do agree though that correctly and fairely moderated forums are the best and most of the time, this is one of them.

[Flat.tyres]

Through more than 5 years on these forums I have seen my fair share of agressive people, and I have to tell you that you get quite a high rank on that department.

Agression is not only about the vocabulary, but also about the way it is used. And in your case, I have to say that I was impressed by your agression since the first time I saw your posts. So maybe it's about time you think a little about your own posts rather than trying to blame everything on the moderators.

Agressive?

I think you will find me pretty reasoned most of the time but someone that doesn't suffer fools. I can't be bothered to pussy foot around them and if they are lying, I will tell them so. In my part of the world that is called being blunt. I am forthright and cut to the chase and make no apologies for that.

Is that agression then? We are often of a opposite viewpoint but would you say I have been agressive to you? I would like to learn where because I consider you to be a knowledgeable and informed memebr so would hope that I answer your posts in a polite, reasoned but possibly sometimes forthright way. That is my character and I hope I don't offend you with it.

Others, such as ioan who rarely backs up his posts with anything more than opinion I have less time for and tend to be rather blunt :)

[Flat.tyres]

It's worth pointing out (again) that moderators don't have the time to fully read every post, so if someone has been causing trouble then they are going to attract the moderators attention first, because they are more likely to cause trouble again.

So if you get in trouble with a moderator once, remember they will be watching you carefully, so don't be surprised if you get pulled up again.

Ahhh, so it is as I thought. ;)

There is a descrepency between what members can write.

If your on the OK list you can get away with a lot more but if your card is marked, you will get done for little things for the sake of it.

Thought so ;) Can you just let Pino know he's in line with Forum policy then and doesn't have to defend double standards :laugh: (Just joking BTW ;) )

[leopard]

Its also important to bear in mind that many people are posting in a foreign (to them) language. They may seem rude, impolite or abrupt simply because they have directly translated something which is perfectly acceptable in their native language.right, although those harshly made and those may seem rude for vocabulary problem are still distinguishable. I can but suggest myself not to be over sensitive nor over aggressive, and the freedom of speech may also be a point we have to respect.

[janneppi]

In my part of the world that is called being blunt. I am forthright and cut to the chase and make no apologies for that.
and yet, you tend behave like a spoilt little girl when you get a fine for stepping out of line, if you're blunt, you can expect a blunt response from others.

[Flat.tyres]

and yet, you tend behave like a spoilt little girl when you get a fine for stepping out of line, if you're blunt, you can expect a blunt response from others.

I wouldn't say that I am a spoilt girl but thats your perogitive I suppose :rolleyes:

Is questioning something not allowed here in the Forum Feedback section? Do Mods not appreciate objective and reasoned feedback?

Rather than me acting like a spoilt girl, I suggest you reply in a more reasoned manner. If I have been disrespectful to you in a way that warrents a personal attack, please let me know and I will retract it, otherwise kindly respond to me in a civil way. Comments like yours just reinforce my opinion of double standards on here. I am happy being blunt and welcome a blunt but polite response; not an insult.

[Daniel]

I wouldn't say that I am a spoilt girl but thats your perogitive I suppose :rolleyes:

Is questioning something not allowed here in the Forum Feedback section? Do Mods not appreciate objective and reasoned feedback?

Rather than me acting like a spoilt girl, I suggest you reply in a more reasoned manner. If I have been disrespectful to you in a way that warrents a personal attack, please let me know and I will retract it, otherwise kindly respond to me in a civil way. Comments like yours just reinforce my opinion of double standards on here. I am happy being blunt and welcome a blunt but polite response; not an insult.
You've made yourself a target so now any time you step out of line you get pulled up. Is it that hard to understand? Behave yourself and it will go back to normal.

[leopard]

spoiled girl? Let me take care of her :laugh:

Enjoy the forum flat.tyres, do you watch motogp also? this needn't have complained like Rossi has complained hardly on the tyres :laugh: ;)

[Flat.tyres]

You've made yourself a target so now any time you step out of line you get pulled up. Is it that hard to understand? Behave yourself and it will go back to normal.

I have every intention of acting in a forthright and blunt manner as I always have done. I have no intention of sucking up to anyone that has the ability to give me infractions and will question them when I feel they are being uneven and slanted in their actions.

If that results in me getting banned then that will happen but I will not relinquish my principles for anything, let alone something as meaningless in the great scheme of things as an internet forum.

However, I do take on board that swearing or trying to fudge the swearing filter is not acceptable and as I have set myself up as you rightly say, fully expect to get banned if I should ever transgress in the future even though others receive no sanction. That has been confirmed and I expect it as the Mods have pointed out. I also accept that Mods and some members have the right to use insulting, provoking or "trolling" language with impunity.

As for "normal", well, I'm quite happy the way I am. :)

[Daniel]

I wasn't saying that you were normal or abnormal. I simply said you could be nicer to people and still get your point across. I once refused to do work in class in high school because I believed that the text I was given to talk about was inaccurate and it was improper for me to stand in front of class and lie and my teacher allowed me to sit out because I explained it calmly and didn't make a big deal of it.

I was saying that your treatment by the mods and others may be a bit more "normal" if you aren't so abrasive and didn't use improper language. Just give it a go fo a week or two and you'll see it's a lot better to be that way.

[Garry Walker]

Well well. Some points.
1) Lately I was given an infraction by Pino, when I asked for an explanation and for him to show me the quote where I insulted the person I had supposedly insulted (it was good old flat.tyres :D ), he did not respond to my PM.
2) With Arrows leaving the moderation team, I quite frankly have to say I think the moderation will improve greatly and personal bias will come into play less than it did before. So that is positive.
3) Much like flat.tyres, I also am a direct person and say what I think, without holding back or trying to be "nice". With that certainly sometimes come harsh remarks on people, but when I see someone being so obviously being intellectually dishonest and stupid, I will not hold back. I think that is a very good quality in a person and while in the current nanny state of world, speaking your mind and saying how it really is, is considered a sin, I raise my hands and salute that quality in people. I have no time for mollycoddling, especially when dealing with supposedly adults. My personal view is that the infraction given to Flat.tyres really was not justified, but fair play to the admins, it is not my decision. While I wouldnt encourage swearing, I dont think words such as **** and bull**** are bad at all. You hear language much more colourful in a school-class filled by 11 year olds.

Added to that, Flatty is a good addition, because unlike some "respected" posters here, he usually doesnt run away from a debate when confronted with an opinion contradictory to his. That said, I would be intimidated to debate myself as well :D

[janneppi]

I am happy being blunt and welcome a blunt but polite response; not an insult.
Now were getting somewhere, where do personally you draw a line between blunt and polite discussion and an insult?
Obviously it's somewhere between you saying someone talks" BS" YET AGAIN and me saying that responding to infactions using terms like pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating as being a being similar what spoilt girls moan when things don't go in their favour.

One thing more, I was here in the bad old days when F1 forum was split into two separate sub forums, one with Ferrari discussion and other without it, if keeping this place ending up like it was then means sometimes heavy handed tactics to put out fires before they go out of control, it needs to be done because it was really hurting the forum then.

[schmenke]

.... In my cultural environment, it is quite normal for someone to say your talking sh*t or bullsh*tting without it being a personal attack. It is merely part of the commonly accepted and used language ....

I can't imagine a cultural environment where language like that is "commonly accepted" :s

[Flat.tyres]

Well well. Some points.
1) Lately I was given an infraction by Pino, when I asked for an explanation and for him to show me the quote where I insulted the person I had supposedly insulted (it was good old flat.tyres :D ), he did not respond to my PM.
2) With Arrows leaving the moderation team, I quite frankly have to say I think the moderation will improve greatly and personal bias will come into play less than it did before. So that is positive.
3) Much like flat.tyres, I also am a direct person and say what I think, without holding back or trying to be "nice". With that certainly sometimes come harsh remarks on people, but when I see someone being so obviously being intellectually dishonest and stupid, I will not hold back. I think that is a very good quality in a person and while in the current nanny state of world, speaking your mind and saying how it really is, is considered a sin, I raise my hands and salute that quality in people. I have no time for mollycoddling, especially when dealing with supposedly adults. My personal view is that the infraction given to Flat.tyres really was not justified, but fair play to the admins, it is not my decision. While I wouldnt encourage swearing, I dont think words such as **** and bull**** are bad at all. You hear language much more colourful in a school-class filled by 11 year olds.

Added to that, Flatty is a good addition, because unlike some "respected" posters here, he usually doesnt run away from a debate when confronted with an opinion contradictory to his. That said, I would be intimidated to debate myself as well :D


We do tend to sling mud at each other with gay abandon but no matter how heated, I don't think either of us take any personal insult from our exchanges.

I know what you mean about asking for clarification as I too find that frustrating when you ask for justification as to where exactly you have sinned and normally get ignored or pointed at some arbitary post about playing nice. What is "nice" and what is heated debate because sometimes I think Mods tend to be a bit heavy handed if something gets passionate. A bit of sledging, banter or light-hearted mickey taking adds to the colour of the forum in my opinion. If someone was being personally insulting in a bitter way then I could understand it but most of the time it's obvious it's horseplay (apart from to the most sensitive on here :rolleyes: )

Let me give you an example. On one heated exchange where someone was being particulaly banal and dogmatic, I suggested to them that they "get a life or get laid" in what was ment to be a spirited dig. [MOD edit] After a discussion with the the member in PM's i wanted to withdraw that comment[/MOD edit]

I then contacted the Mods, explained the situation and asked them to immediatly remove the unintended distressing post which they did and in the process, gave me 3 points :rolleyes:

Now, I'm a big boy and 3 points isn't gonna make me curl up in a ball and cry but I think the example clerely demonstrates how the infraction system is being abused. There was no offence ment in the post, no swearing but there was a lighthearted dig that if I remember correctly, was accompanied by smilies to qualify it was not serious.

I suppose we should all remember that big brother is watching and a bit of banter and humour is not tollerated from some members while it seems lying and trolling is perfectly accepted from others :rolleyes:

[janneppi]

flat.tyres
You should also have have remembered that not too many days before that i specifically asked you to lay off the personal issues and continue with a more civil manner.
Which you agreed to do, were you lying then?
while I do appreciate you wanting to remove that message, the infraction was IMO deserved.

[Flat.tyres]

Now were getting somewhere, where do personally you draw a line between blunt and polite discussion and an insult?
Obviously it's somewhere between you saying someone talks" BS" YET AGAIN and me saying that responding to infactions using terms like pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating as being a being similar what spoilt girls moan when things don't go in their favour.

One thing more, I was here in the bad old days when F1 forum was split into two separate sub forums, one with Ferrari discussion and other without it, if keeping this place ending up like it was then means sometimes heavy handed tactics to put out fires before they go out of control, it needs to be done because it was really hurting the forum then.

If I'm talking Bull (am I allowed to write that?) then I have no problem with people saying it as long as they back it up. If I write a deliberate lie, then I expect to be hauled over the coals as everything I write, I can generally back up unless it's priviliged information which I usually qualify at the time of writing.

When we have a Moderator on here that is handing out infraction because I point out someone is lying and talking Bull (I do hope I don't get 3 points every time I write Bull), saying it is insulting other member, and then uses insulting language when I question his decision, then yes, I find that grossly hypocritical and wonder what the hell is going on here. Bit like a copper stopping you for doing 31 in a 30 and then driving off through red lights to get off shift on time. ;)




and yet, you tend behave like a spoilt little girl when you get a fine for stepping out of line, if you&#39;re blunt, you can expect a blunt response from others.


Now were getting somewhere, where do personally you draw a line between blunt and polite discussion and an insult?
Obviously it's somewhere between you saying someone talks" BS" YET AGAIN and me saying that responding to infactions using terms like pathetic infraction system it's is frankly nauseating as being a being similar what spoilt girls moan when things don't go in their favour.

OK, I raised a point in Forum Feedback in a calm and reasoned way. I have maintained that stance all the way through and have been perfectly civil even when Moderators start accusing me of behaving like a spoilt girl. My understanding of a spoilt girl is someone that whines, moans and screams rather than someone that objectivly raises a concern in a reasoned and polite manner quoting examples and providing quantifiable arguements. Do you agree?

The pathetic infraction system quote was part of a longer post where I pointed out that there were double standards on here, something that was later confirmed by Mark and the opinion of people like Daniel, and that if you are going to hand out points to someone for a perceived offence where others that aren't on your hit list will not be punished in a similar manner, then I find that pathetic and nauseating. That is my opinion and is not insulting to anyone in any way.

I ask you again then, point out where I have behaved like a spoilt girl and if you cannot, then please treat me with the respect I offer you in replying to my posts or give yourself 3 points for personal comments and insulting remarks because if I had written it in a reply on the F1 forum, I bet I would get another 3 points wouldn't I ;)

[pino]

The pathetic infraction system quote was part of a longer post where I pointed out that there were double standards on here, something that was later confirmed by Mark...



Where did Mark confirm that ? :confused: missing a post doesn't mean double standard. Let me remind you once again that we Mod have private lives and cannot be here all the time and read every posts. As for your attitude in here, you've been given point-infractions from 3 different Mods, do I need to say more ? :s

[Daniel]

If I'm talking Bull (am I allowed to write that?) then I have no problem with people saying it as long as they back it up. If I write a deliberate lie, then I expect to be hauled over the coals as everything I write, I can generally back up unless it's priviliged information which I usually qualify at the time of writing.

When we have a Moderator on here that is handing out infraction because I point out someone is lying and talking Bull (I do hope I don't get 3 points every time I write Bull), saying it is insulting other member, and then uses insulting language when I question his decision, then yes, I find that grossly hypocritical and wonder what the hell is going on here. Bit like a copper stopping you for doing 31 in a 30 and then driving off through red lights to get off shift on time. ;)



[font=verdana][size=75][color=#000000]



OK, I raised a point in Forum Feedback in a calm and reasoned way. I have maintained that stance all the way through and have been perfectly civil even when Moderators start accusing me of behaving like a spoilt girl. My understanding of a spoilt girl is someone that whines, moans and screams rather than someone that objectivly raises a concern in a reasoned and polite manner quoting examples and providing quantifiable arguements. Do you agree?

The pathetic infraction system quote was part of a longer post where I pointed out that there were double standards on here, something that was later confirmed by Mark and the opinion of people like Daniel, and that if you are going to hand out points to someone for a perceived offence where others that aren't on your hit list will not be punished in a similar manner, then I find that pathetic and nauseating. That is my opinion and is not insulting to anyone in any way.

I ask you again then, point out where I have behaved like a spoilt girl and if you cannot, then please treat me with the respect I offer you in replying to my posts or give yourself 3 points for personal comments and insulting remarks because if I had written it in a reply on the F1 forum, I bet I would get another 3 points wouldn't I ;)
Don't put words in my mouth! :mark: I am in absolutely no way representative of the management of this forum and any moderator or admin (fancy moderator :p ) will confirm this!!!! :mark:
I merely said you've made yourself a target and more users are going to report your posts if they offend rather than someone who rarely uses bad language. If you make yourself a target you're always going to attract more attention from the authorities. Why is it so hard to just straighten up and fly right? You'll have more fun, get less grief from mods and there will be no need for all this fuss.

[janneppi]

Let me remind you once again that we Mod have private lives and cannot be here all the time and read every posts.
Exactly, now if you want more comprehensive moderation, I can ship out my Matlab and CAD files for the members to process while I browse the forums in the office. Overtime and night shifts will cost extra. :p :

[Flat.tyres]

Where did Mark confirm that ? :confused: missing a post doesn't mean double standard. Let me remind you once again that we Mod have private lives and cannot be here all the time and read every posts. As for your attitude in here, you've been given point-infractions from 3 different Mods, do I need to say more ? :s

Mark said, in effect, that if you have infractions, the Mods will keep a closer eye on you.

Now, this is fine in itself because nobody likes people on here that are purposely insulting and trolling. However, as I pointed out, and mave justified, some people here are singled out for points for the smallest things such as saying someone was talking Bull (different word used.)

I'm really enjoying this discussion because it highlights the disparity on the forum. I was given points by Arrows that I totally agreed with. I learnt that some things are tolerated and where the line was. I had rather a good dialogue with Arrows and think he was justified in giving me the points.

That is where your arguement falls down Pino. I guess I am not the first person to have points on here and all the good boys and girls that didn't get further points from different Moderators were lucky they didn't come up against you two because between you, you have awarded me 6 points for what at the very most could be called minor infractions.

1. Accusing someone of talking Ball when it was blindingly obvious they were lying. I have seen numerous occassions of people using that word in the asterix guise with no retribution whatsoever, let alone 3 points.

2. By making a cheeky comment to someone that turned out to have a whole different meaning to them because of their personal situation which nobody here would know about. I tried to remedy the situation by having the unintentionally distressing term removed and got a further 3 points for my trouble.

So, dear Pino and Jan, that is why I have 8 points on my licence instead of 2 and a reputation of being someone that has been sanctioned by 3 different Mods instead of 1. Yet, you sit there, quite happy and reply there is no double standards and you're quite happy with the situation.

All I'm trying to point out is that in an open forum like this, people will question you if they feel you are being discriminatory against them. When you keep coming back with the "thats the way it is so hard luck" stuff and childish insults, you confirm my position.

As I say, I'm enjoying this as I have the moral high ground. I maintain that by and large, what I have seen of the Moderating, I have been very impressed but that is not to say that sometimes it warrents questioning, unless, of course, you're perfect and don't make mistakes ;)

[Flat.tyres]

Exactly, now if you want more comprehensive moderation, I can ship out my Matlab and CAD files for the members to process while I browse the forums in the office. Overtime and night shifts will cost extra. :p :

Hey, no problemo bro. My shredder processes most things. Ship 'em over :D

[Daniel]

Mark said, in effect, that if you have infractions, the Mods will keep a closer eye on you.

Now, this is fine in itself because nobody likes people on here that are purposely insulting and trolling. However, as I pointed out, and mave justified, some people here are singled out for points for the smallest things such as saying someone was talking Bull (different word used.)

I'm really enjoying this discussion because it highlights the disparity on the forum. I was given points by Arrows that I totally agreed with. I learnt that some things are tolerated and where the line was. I had rather a good dialogue with Arrows and think he was justified in giving me the points.

That is where your arguement falls down Pino. I guess I am not the first person to have points on here and all the good boys and girls that didn't get further points from different Moderators were lucky they didn't come up against you two because between you, you have awarded me 6 points for what at the very most could be called minor infractions.

1. Accusing someone of talking Ball when it was blindingly obvious they were lying. I have seen numerous occassions of people using that word in the asterix guise with no retribution whatsoever, let alone 3 points.

2. By making a cheeky comment to someone that turned out to have a whole different meaning to them because of their personal situation which nobody here would know about. I tried to remedy the situation by having the unintentionally distressing term removed and got a further 3 points for my trouble.

So, dear Pino and Jan, that is why I have 8 points on my licence instead of 2 and a reputation of being someone that has been sanctioned by 3 different Mods instead of 1. Yet, you sit there, quite happy and reply there is no double standards and you're quite happy with the situation.

All I'm trying to point out is that in an open forum like this, people will question you if they feel you are being discriminatory against them. When you keep coming back with the "thats the way it is so hard luck" stuff and childish insults, you confirm my position.

As I say, I'm enjoying this as I have the moral high ground. I maintain that by and large, what I have seen of the Moderating, I have been very impressed but that is not to say that sometimes it warrents questioning, unless, of course, you're perfect and don't make mistakes ;)
You do NOT have the moral high ground. If you truly believe that you are extremely delusional.

I myself have been stupid enough to have been banned about half a dozen times and although I will admit I've disagreed with one or two of those bans (water under the bridge though) I realised that I'm here in Mark's forum which Mark owns and which is run by Mark and people that Mark has appointed so if I want to stay here I have to play by Mark's rules and if Mark dictates that people who have been banned or been given points previously be treated more harshly then so be it! As Mark quite rightly points out this forum is not a democracy and we're not all equal. You do as the mods say and if you don't you pay the price.

Just play nice and it'll all be good! Could it get any easier and straight forward than that? :mark:

[Flat.tyres]

Don't put words in my mouth! :mark: I am in absolutely no way representative of the management of this forum and any moderator or admin (fancy moderator :p ) will confirm this!!!! :mark:
I merely said you've made yourself a target and more users are going to report your posts if they offend rather than someone who rarely uses bad language. If you make yourself a target you're always going to attract more attention from the authorities. Why is it so hard to just straighten up and fly right? You'll have more fun, get less grief from mods and there will be no need for all this fuss.

What I find fascinating is that a young man such as yourself feels sufficiently empowered to preach how you feel people should behave to get the maximum out of this forum. :)

Believe you me my dear boy, I have my full facalties about me and need no guidence on how to make friends and influence people. Even from someone with such unique and extensive experience on rubbing people up the wrong way and getting banned on a regular basis such as your good self.

A man can become rich on listening to good advice but a man can become poor on advice freely given ;) (Thats $20AUS or £2.24 for that little gem. Deposit it in my usual Swiss account please)

[Daniel]

What I find fascinating is that a young man such as yourself feels sufficiently empowered to preach how you feel people should behave to get the maximum out of this forum. :)

Believe you me my dear boy, I have my full facalties about me and need no guidence on how to make friends and influence people. Even from someone with such unique and extensive experience on rubbing people up the wrong way and getting banned on a regular basis such as your good self.

A man can become rich on listening to good advice but a man can become poor on advice freely given ;) (Thats $20AUS or £2.24 for that little gem. Deposit it in my usual Swiss account please)
If you are so obviously good at winning friends and influencing people why is it that you have little support on this forum and you don't know when to stop. If you're wanting to make friends and influence people it's crucial to know when to stop and also what sort of language to use. My girlfriend likes oven baked salmon. I don't but I don't keep on going on about it and I don't go on about how "I don't like ****ing salmon" and "Salmon is BS" and so on. I don't go on about it all the time either (as you're doing on this thread) and claim to have the "moral highground" in the war between baked salmon and cheap canned salmon (my favourite :facelick: ). There's a certain way to treat people and to swear at them for no real reason isn't right.

[tinchote]

I have every intention of acting in a forthright and blunt manner as I always have done. I have no intention of sucking up to anyone that has the ability to give me infractions and will question them when I feel they are being uneven and slanted in their actions.


And the mods have every intention to keep this place neat and clean, the way it has been (or has been intended to) since more than 6 years ago. This not a democracy nor anarchy. You take it or you leave it. It's that simple. Many members here have posted thousands and thousands of posts without having problems. Even Daniel (whose nickname was "Baniel" a couple years ago ;) ) can adjust. If you can't, just leave.

[janneppi]

Mark said, in effect, that if you have infractions, the Mods will keep a closer eye on you.

Now, this is fine in itself because nobody likes people on here that are purposely insulting and trolling. However, as I pointed out, and mave justified, some people here are singled out for points for the smallest things such as saying someone was talking Bull (different word used.)

No, you are watched more closely but the same standards apply to you as to everyone, You might be getting relatively more points than another member for the same stuff simply because you are on sort of a probation and due to limited time some stuff will get unnoticed or the tone of the thread isn't affected by it to warrant actions.

There is no one out there to get specifically you.



I'm really enjoying this discussion because it highlights the disparity on the forum. I was given points by Arrows that I totally agreed with. I learnt that some things are tolerated and where the line was. I had rather a good dialogue with Arrows and think he was justified in giving me the points.

That is where your arguement falls down Pino. I guess I am not the first person to have points on here and all the good boys and girls that didn't get further points from different Moderators were lucky they didn't come up against you two because between you, you have awarded me 6 points for what at the very most could be called minor infractions.
Your points are due to your own actions, which you said you would give up, but still continued, had Arrows been a mod, you would most likely been "awarded" the same points.


1. Accusing someone of talking Ball when it was blindingly obvious they were lying. I have seen numerous occassions of people using that word in the asterix guise with no retribution whatsoever, let alone 3 points.

How do you know what people get and when? Can you see the mod section or do you ask every how many points they have and when have they gotten them?


2. By making a cheeky comment to someone that turned out to have a whole different meaning to them because of their personal situation which nobody here would know about. I tried to remedy the situation by having the unintentionally distressing term removed and got a further 3 points for my trouble.
This already adressed earlier.


So, dear Pino and Jan, that is why I have 8 points on my licence instead of 2 and a reputation of being someone that has been sanctioned by 3 different Mods instead of 1. Yet, you sit there, quite happy and reply there is no double standards and you're quite happy with the situation.
Exactly, i couldn't have put it better myself, you, and no one but you are to blame for your points.



All I'm trying to point out is that in an open forum like this, people will question you if they feel you are being discriminatory against them. When you keep coming back with the "thats the way it is so hard luck" stuff and childish insults, you confirm my position.

As I say, I'm enjoying this as I have the moral high ground. I maintain that by and large, what I have seen of the Moderating, I have been very impressed but that is not to say that sometimes it warrents questioning, unless, of course, you're perfect and don't make mistakes ;)
I'm perfectly fine having my decisions questioned, it most likely never changes the outcome, but we learn more from you all this way.

You have made your opinions on this matter quite clear, as a moderator I disgree with most them wholeheartedly and until there is new line coming from mark, this one stays just as it is.

[Flat.tyres]

If you are so obviously good at winning friends and influencing people why is it that you have little support on this forum and you don't know when to stop. If you're wanting to make friends and influence people it's crucial to know when to stop and also what sort of language to use. My girlfriend likes oven baked salmon. I don't but I don't keep on going on about it and I don't go on about how "I don't like ****ing salmon" and "Salmon is BS" and so on. I don't go on about it all the time either (as you're doing on this thread) and claim to have the "moral highground" in the war between baked salmon and cheap canned salmon (my favourite :facelick: ). There's a certain way to treat people and to swear at them for no real reason isn't right.

1. I never claime I was good at winning friends and influencing people. I merely stated I know how to and infered I didn't need advice on it.

2. I found your post condescending and replied in a similar vein. I think the tone I used was too subtle so I hope I have clarified things.

3. What the <insert word here> has Salmon got to do with it? You confuse me with your left field logic I'm afraid as the example you gave bears no resembalance to the arguements in this thread?

[Flat.tyres]

And the mods have every intention to keep this place neat and clean, the way it has been (or has been intended to) since more than 6 years ago. This not a democracy nor anarchy. You take it or you leave it. It's that simple. Many members here have posted thousands and thousands of posts without having problems. Even Daniel (whose nickname was "Baniel" a couple years ago ;) ) can adjust. If you can't, just leave.

Please do me the service of reading all posts and not quoting selective ones. You will see that I agree the mods are doing a superb job most of the time and that I acknowledge that an attempt to use a swear word is not acceptable. My only issue is with the policing of these guidelined. I just warned a member on chit chat that using the "S" word would result in points as there is no double standards here as Pino says :laugh:

As for leaving, I couldn't possibly leave my Ferrari fan base. They would miss me ;) Of course, I may get bnanned for putting points across in the manner I have on this thread but that's for the Mods to decide isn't it.

[pino]

This has lasted long enough, stick with your ideas Flat.tyres, while we stick with our rules...just make sure you respect them ;)

Thread closed !