If Mark James is lurking

[RallyCat909]

He commentated the 2002 Monte Carlo Rally for Speed Channel and I have not heard much of him (or Jeremy Hart for that matter, Finland 2000 is a good memory for me with his commentary) since then. Once in a while on the odd download of old rallies I find on the internet, I get to hear their great voiceovers and comment that added to much drama, insight, knowledgable perspective and just cool voices. If anyone knows of what they are up too these days and/or if they are active in the rally paddocks I'd greatly appreciate connecting me with them. To me they are unsung heroes of rallying and deserve the appreciation.

Not too mention that Id like to invite them to my nerdy rally forum. :)

[AndyRAC]

Yeah, I wonder what happened to him and Jeremy Hart. Both covered the WRC when BBC had the highlights, even remember him covering it on 5 Live before that with the Rally updates throughout the season. Just shows how much the WRC is covered in Britain that nobody hears both these journalists anymore.

[bf1_IRL]

As far as I know Mark James is the Press Officer for the Seat WTCC Team at the moment..
(not sure of his correct job title, but you know what I mean)

:)

[duff]

is one of these guys the one that commentated on the coverage that we received in Australia in the late '90s? If so he was fantastic. There was only a half hour show but he made such a good story out of it, really entertaining, and he obviously loved the sport. much better than the coverage today!
Some times I think the crew that do the coverage these days aren't true WRC fans and the could be covering F1, cycling or even fishing as long as they were getting paid.

[RallyCat909]

i
Some times I think the crew that do the coverage these days aren't true WRC fans and the could be covering F1, cycling or even fishing as long as they were getting paid.

I fully agree.

[RallyCat909]

In a stroke of luck I found these vids on YT with his masterful commentary.

Rally AU 1996
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsCSUveRl2w


Rally Finland 1996
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ai4wRywdd8&mode=related&search=

[Josti]

In a stroke of luck I found these vids on YT with his masterful commentary.

Rally AU 1996
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsCSUveRl2w


Rally Finland 1996
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ai4wRywdd8&mode=related&search=

Yeah, those are from the '96 official review. Much better commentary, compared to reviews of recent years, where they even dare to put music in the background. So annoying...

[turves]

I was in the Ford hospitality in the service area at WRGB last year and Jeremy Hart was there, with Microphone. I think he may have been doing some sort of audio coverage as I didn't see a camera.

[jonkka]

Some times I think the crew that do the coverage these days aren't true WRC fans and the could be covering F1, cycling or even fishing as long as they were getting paid.

That depends on what coverage you're watching. Since Finnish YLE dropped WRC this year, I've followed Eurosport and as that ends next Saturday with digi-telly jerk-off, I'm forced to switch to MTV (not the music-TV). Out of these three, YLE was by far the best but that's academic since nobody outside Finland watches that.

My point here is that even if MTV has Sebastian Lindholm's co-driver Tomi Tuominen as a commentator, his passion or expertise does not guarantee a classy show. Quite the contrary, he makes relatively stupid questions and talks more himself than allowing his guests to speak (good host makes short question to the point and allows guest to talk, Tomi does it the other way around). Also, the commentary from the stages is mostly yadda-yadda-yadda, repetitive and non-interesting. I admit that it's difficult to make interesting story out from a stage where nothing happens as largely is the case these days.

On top of that, most coverage must use ISC footage which restrains the TV company equally, creative ideas just can't be made to work with the film they get.

Sorry that this a bit beside the original topic.

[AndyRAC]

Going back to Mark James, he came across as a real enthusiast, who really loved Rallying, also an excellent journalist. It's a real shame and a crime that he can't find work in WRC. What a mess the WRC is, particularly in UK, that none of the media organisations need him. A sad state of affairs indeed. :mad:

[4westdan]

Just came across this thread - Mark is actually my business partner, so he's now well aware of the nice things people have been saying about him! Hopefully he'll make an appearance within the next day or two himself.....

After he finished with the WRC in 2002, he got involved with the APRC in 2003, although that project came to a premature end. As someone rightly says, he was the SEAT Sport press officer in the ETCC/WTCC from 2004 until the end of last year, although he's also attended three events this year to help out a colleague when events clashed.

The reason he's cut back on his WTCC activities is where I come in. We set up a company last year to produce videos for the Net and one of our first projects is the website http://www.ukcarnews.com (I hope the mods don't mind the plug). Mark's responsible for producing the videos for the site, which include car roadtests, features and interviews - among the "motorsport" features are interviews with Nicky Grist and Phil Mills, so he keeps his hand in!

As I said, Mark's aware of this thread and is very grateful for the nice things you've been saying. He should be here "in person" within the next few days if you have any questions you'd like him to answer.

[AndyRAC]

Good to see he's being kept busy, it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the current state of the WRC, and of the coverage or lack of it in UK.

[A.F.F.]

That depends on what coverage you're watching. Since Finnish YLE dropped WRC this year, I've followed Eurosport and as that ends next Saturday with digi-telly jerk-off, I'm forced to switch to MTV (not the music-TV). Out of these three, YLE was by far the best but that's academic since nobody outside Finland watches that.

My point here is that even if MTV has Sebastian Lindholm's co-driver Tomi Tuominen as a commentator, his passion or expertise does not guarantee a classy show. Quite the contrary, he makes relatively stupid questions and talks more himself than allowing his guests to speak (good host makes short question to the point and allows guest to talk, Tomi does it the other way around). Also, the commentary from the stages is mostly yadda-yadda-yadda, repetitive and non-interesting. I admit that it's difficult to make interesting story out from a stage where nothing happens as largely is the case these days.

On top of that, most coverage must use ISC footage which restrains the TV company equally, creative ideas just can't be made to work with the film they get.

Sorry that this a bit beside the original topic.


I completely agree with only one minor mark. Our Estonians firends watch YLE footage.

[PuddleJumper]

As I said, Mark's aware of this thread and is very grateful for the nice things you've been saying. He should be here "in person" within the next few days if you have any questions you'd like him to answer.
I believe Mark would have posted already were it not for the forum software messing up the email notifications. Sorry about that! Please let him know that he should now be able to post.

[Daniel]

In a stroke of luck I found these vids on YT with his masterful commentary.

Rally AU 1996
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsCSUveRl2w


Rally Finland 1996
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ai4wRywdd8&mode=related&search=
That is why I've bitched and moaned about the quality of WRR and the fact that the same people do the coverage on the TV. Mark James is a true professional and would wipe the floor with the "commentators" we have these days.

[BDunnell]

I agree. He was a very welcome, enthusiastic, journalistic and knowledgeable presence on TV and radio.

[duff]

is one of these guys the one that commentated on the coverage that we received in Australia in the late '90s?

Yep, I was thinking of Mark James.
As I said fantastic commentary. He was commentating when I got into Rallying and I beleive he was a big part of why I got interested as he made it very entertaining and palatable. He didn't need to give blow-by-blow accounts of each stage (he couldn't anyway in half an hour) but made a memorable story out of each rally.

If you do get on the site, THANKS MARK!

[RallyCat909]

Jeesh what fortune! Mark James is one of my heroes in rallying. Id like to plan a rally party here in Memphis with maybe a MJ conference call.

There was a moment on 2002 Monte Carlo rally where he says "Now for the next few minutes, lets watch some of the world's best drivers on the planet." You could really tell he meant it....I used to rewind that over and over. Its a special memory in my rally passion, however obscure.

[LotusElise]

I miss Mark's subtle and soft-spoken style of commentary, which let the cars do the talking. You always knew what was going on without him having to yell it at you every ten seconds.

Jeremy Hart was good in the Eurosport days as well, although his Channel 4 scripts were sometimes awful and you could tell he was a bit embarrassed by them.

[Daniel]

I miss Mark's subtle and soft-spoken style of commentary, which let the cars do the talking. You always knew what was going on without him having to yell it at you every ten seconds.

Jeremy Hart was good in the Eurosport days as well, although his Channel 4 scripts were sometimes awful and you could tell he was a bit embarrassed by them.
"Oh no!!!!!! It looks like Petter's had a spin. This is going to cost him dearly!"

Is something he'd never be caught saying :)

[Neil J]

Most of it`s been said, Mark James, excellent.

I thoroughy missed him and now look at the twonk we have to put up with. I cringe with the commentry we get now, I can even remember his name.


Bring back Mark James :D

[markrally]

Blimey! I thought I'd been forgotten and look what happens!

Thanks everyone for your kind words. Sorry it's taken me a few days to reply, but there was a small problem registering with the forum and I've been working (for the BBC, ironically) for the last couple of days. I have to say that some of the things people have said have made me blush, not to mention the clips that were posted on YouTube. I still remember the watersplash incident on Rally Australia like it was yesterday, so you can imagine how I felt to discover it was actually 11 years ago!

Dan has already covered most of what I've been up to since I stopped covering the WRC at the end of 2002. Up until then, I'd had 8 fantastic years, covering a sport I love at the highest level, for an organisation I regard at being among the best in the world at what it does. No wonder I frequently used to pinch myself to make sure I wasn't making it all up......

As I've said on other forums over the years, I won't go into the reasons why my involvement with the WRC ended, although I'm more than happy to say that it had nothing to do with the quality of my work. I've had a huge amount of fun since 2002, covering a couple of rounds of the APRC (which, incidentally, was a cracking championship - check out footage of the Mineshaft on Rally Canberra), and then working on the World Touring Car Championship for three years. I'm now managing director of my own company, which produces videos for a whole load of people, and I get the same kind of buzz out of the material we produce for ukcarnews that I used to get on the rallies.

As Dan said, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have although I don't really want to get drawn into the "what's the WRC coverage like nowadays?" situation, as the championship is very different now to what it was 5 or 10 years ago.

By the way, Daniel - are you the gentleman I bumped into at the service area in Bannister on Rally Oz back in about 2001? I remember encountering a fellow Welshman a long way from home and your profile means you fit the bill!

Thanks again to everyone who's said such nice things. Considering I haven't been involved with the WRC for nearly 5 years, it's actually pretty humbling to read the comments on this thread and it's nice to know that the work that I and the various production teams I worked with from 1995 - 2002 produced is still appreciated.

Mark James

[Daniel]

Well I'm not actually a Welshman :) I'm originally Australian :( I've only lived in North Wales for a year.

It is truly a privilege to have yourself here. I honestly feel you are one of the reasons (other than the superb rallying of course) that the WRC experiences a bit of a boom from the mid nineties until a few years ago. As someone else said you complimented the footage rather than talking over it but of course you don't want to have that discussion :)

I do think you underestimate yourself though. A good commentator has the ability to make a less exciting race/rally more interesting. Yes the championship is different but it never hurts to have an excellent commentator like yourself ;) Just look what Murray Walker did for F1 in those years when it wasn't always all that exciting :)

[markrally]

Hi Daniel. Clearly it wasn't you, then!

I'd disagree - I reckon a good commentator merely reflects what's going on and doesn't try to add to the spectacle or over-hype the drama. I was of the "less is more" school of commentary (at least, I like to think I was) and my aim was to let the pictures tell the story with a little help from me to explain what was going on. For that reason, I rarely talked over in-car clips, unless it was to point out that something was happening that viewers might otherwise miss. If things got exciting, I reflected that.

Of course, it helped that I had an exciting series to talk about. I was lucky in that I covered both the championship-winning seasons of Colin McRae and Richard Burns and I had lots of characters to talk about - from Kankkunen to Makinen and from Sainz to Possum Bourne. Lots of manufacturers, too, before anyone points that out.......

[A.F.F.]

I'd disagree - I reckon a good commentator merely reflects what's going on and doesn't try to add to the spectacle or over-hype the drama. I was of the "less is more" school of commentary (at least, I like to think I was) and my aim was to let the pictures tell the story with a little help from me to explain what was going on. For that reason, I rarely talked over in-car clips, unless it was to point out that something was happening that viewers might otherwise miss. If things got exciting, I reflected that.



I agree and sadly that's the exact thing what's happening on WRR.

[Daniel]

I'd disagree - I reckon a good commentator merely reflects what's going on and doesn't try to add to the spectacle or over-hype the drama. I was of the "less is more" school of commentary (at least, I like to think I was) and my aim was to let the pictures tell the story with a little help from me to explain what was going on. For that reason, I rarely talked over in-car clips, unless it was to point out that something was happening that viewers might otherwise miss. If things got exciting, I reflected that.

That's kind of what I meant :) I think my words didn't quite explain it well.

My main problem with the current coverage is the commentators try to commentate as if it was live :mark: When you've seen on the internet or on the news hours earlier (or weeks earlier when the coverage is delayed like it is/was in Australia) then it's slightly patronising and detracts from the real action. I also think that the photography was better on the old coverage too.

But perhaps the old saying "It's hard to polish a turd" springs to mind when you compare the series today to what it was in the 90's glory days :)

[LotusElise]

Mark, do you still compete at all?
I remember seeing you co-drive a Darrian on the Promenade Stages in 2001 or 2002. I was in the service area and it was the first time I'd seen a Darrian up close. I didn't realise they were that small!

[markrally]

No, sadly - my co-driving days are over (although I've said that a few times now....)

I think it must have been 2002 that I did the Promenade stages. I actually competed on four events that year, with the same driver but in three different cars! Damian Cole foolishly asked me to deputise for his regular co-driver who couldn't do a couple of events. We did two rallies at the Builth Wells showground (we came within a few seconds of winning the first and retired from the second, which was in Damian's awesome Darrian T90). We then did a single-venue event at Talbenny in west Wales in an Evo and the Promenade in the white Darrian. If you thought it looked small from the outside, I can confirm it was a lot smaller on the inside - particularly since I'm not as, ahem, "slightly-built" as I once was!

I also did some events alongside an old friend in a couple of different Skodas in 2004, I think it was. He's now the European PR director for Cadillac and Hummer!

There was also the one-off Swansea Bay ride with one of the BBC's WRC cameramen, Martin Mansell, in a bright green Mk 2 Escort. That was huge fun and I wrote it up an an article for "Rallysport" magazine (another memory from the "good old days" of the WRC!)

[LotusElise]

I think I have a photo of that Darrian on the Promenade somewhere, plus one of Ronnie Moon's T90 which crashed as I was taking the picture.

[RallyCat909]

Mark, I once got a message from you on the Speed Channel forums, it only came second to getting an actual email from the late (and great) Richard Burns. I was proud as a peacock I can tell you that!

Since Im from America, I think its bit of a responsibility to ask a question or two in every US rally fans heart.

Have you taken notice lately of events in the US and do you feel that the sport here is finally taking steps to gain a bit of credibility (outside the Xgames, thats something of another thread.) on the world stage with up and coming driver talents like Travis Pastrana, Tanner Foust competing on select WRC events?

There is a new racing channel to begin programming in 2008 and many fans want to see WRC again here in the US. Do you think a US rally event is possible in the future?

Thank you very much for your time. You have a diehard fan base in Memphis by the way!

[duff]

I'd disagree - I reckon a good commentator merely reflects what's going on and doesn't try to add to the spectacle or over-hype the drama. I was of the "less is more" school of commentary (at least, I like to think I was) and my aim was to let the pictures tell the story with a little help from me to explain what was going on. For that reason, I rarely talked over in-car clips, unless it was to point out that something was happening that viewers might otherwise miss. If things got exciting, I reflected that.
.

Hi Mark,
I won't praise you too much more, I've already said it all twice!
The points which you stated in this post I believe are what made your coverage great to watch. I always enjoyed that you let the cars talk and that we as viewers didn't know what was coming next and therefore it all seemed like it was happening in front of us.
As I said in an earlier post you seemed to make a real story out of each rally instead of just stage-by-stage blows, was the "Story Making" aspect a conscious effort in your writing for the coverage?
The very first piece of rally that I watched was your coverage of OZ 1997 with Colin’s massive jumps at Bunning’s, it’s probably the most memorable thing for me still in rallying, what are your fondest memories of the rallies from the period that you commentated?
Is the late '90s your favorite period of rallying?
Do you still follow the championship?
you were very even handed with you commentary but I got the slight feeling at times you were a McRae fan, is this true?
And lastly is there any chance we will here your commentary of the WRC in any form in the future?
Judging by this forum you would have many interested viewers/listeners.

That’s it for the grilling from me. I truly am interested!

[markrally]

RallyCat - my wife is American and so I do keep an eye on what goes on in the US. The Speed Channel forums are interesting in that there's a lot of discussion about the fact that Speed has dropped the WRC - I remember the USA being one of the key markets that the WRC wanted to enter back in 2002 or so. That's one of the failures of the series, I reckon, since it seemed the video games (particularly Colin McRae's) had sparked a real interest in the sport. With a number of other problems, including the issue of pathways crossing the roads used by events and the associated liability risks, I don't think the US is really ready for the WRC, I'm sorry to say. An American driver, on the other hand, is a different issue and success for Pastrana (or whoever) would certainly lift the sport's profile in the USA.

Duff - the "story telling" was a large part of what we did. As I've already said, I firmly believe that the BBC's coverage of sport is among the best in the world and our little corner of that operation had to be as good as all the other sports the Beeb had in its portfolio. Whether it was for radio, for BBC Worldwide (who produced the programmes seen in Australia, New Zealand, Asia etc. in the late 90s) or for BBC Sport, the standard of telling the story had to be high. Only "Ralio" does that these days, in my humble opinion.

I also had to be as even-handed as possible. I wasn't a fan of any particular driver, although I was delighted if McRae or Burns won or did well. I got on better with the co-drivers, if I'm honest - Phil Mills came to my wedding, for example - and a few of the team managers.

It's very, very unlikely that you'll ever see me back doing the TV coverage. My company keeps me busy these days, although I have been asked to be involved with Rally FM on this year's Wales Rally GB. I couldn't do it last year, since I was making a DVD on the "Le Jog" classic rally over the same weekend, but I'd love to do it this year and so that's looking likely.

Favourite memories? Rally-wise, it has to be the Safari - simply an amazing experience. Places - probably New Zealand or Australia; I have fond memories of both countries and so I always pay special attention to the WRC when it goes down under (the two APRC rounds I covered also reinforced my liking for both countries). Incidents - so many, but getting a lift back to my hotel in snowy Sweden from Richard Burns and Robert Reid in a hire car is probably my favourite. A perfect four-wheel drift into the hotel car park - I still remember the look of astonishment on the face of a man in the petrol station next door!

Oh yes, and the infamous ride with Colin McRae in a Focus when the BBC put on-board cameras in the car. My comment that "Richard seemed quicker when I had a ride with him last year" brought the reply, "Ah yes, but when the flag drops, the bullsh*t stops", which we used as the outwords, cutting to Richard and Colin laughing in the studio.......

[Josti]

Great story's Mark. Which particulair official WRC Reviews did you commentate? And I agree about your point that BBC did the best coverage. I remember the RAC in '99, '00 and '01, which were very interesting to follow, with live stages and people who knew were they were talking about :up: (even Vatanen guest starred as I remember).

[Daniel]

RallyCat - my wife is American and so I do keep an eye on what goes on in the US. The Speed Channel forums are interesting in that there's a lot of discussion about the fact that Speed has dropped the WRC - I remember the USA being one of the key markets that the WRC wanted to enter back in 2002 or so. That's one of the failures of the series, I reckon, since it seemed the video games (particularly Colin McRae's) had sparked a real interest in the sport. With a number of other problems, including the issue of pathways crossing the roads used by events and the associated liability risks, I don't think the US is really ready for the WRC, I'm sorry to say. An American driver, on the other hand, is a different issue and success for Pastrana (or whoever) would certainly lift the sport's profile in the USA.

Duff - the "story telling" was a large part of what we did. As I've already said, I firmly believe that the BBC's coverage of sport is among the best in the world and our little corner of that operation had to be as good as all the other sports the Beeb had in its portfolio. Whether it was for radio, for BBC Worldwide (who produced the programmes seen in Australia, New Zealand, Asia etc. in the late 90s) or for BBC Sport, the standard of telling the story had to be high. Only "Ralio" does that these days, in my humble opinion.

I also had to be as even-handed as possible. I wasn't a fan of any particular driver, although I was delighted if McRae or Burns won or did well. I got on better with the co-drivers, if I'm honest - Phil Mills came to my wedding, for example - and a few of the team managers.

It's very, very unlikely that you'll ever see me back doing the TV coverage. My company keeps me busy these days, although I have been asked to be involved with Rally FM on this year's Wales Rally GB. I couldn't do it last year, since I was making a DVD on the "Le Jog" classic rally over the same weekend, but I'd love to do it this year and so that's looking likely.

Favourite memories? Rally-wise, it has to be the Safari - simply an amazing experience. Places - probably New Zealand or Australia; I have fond memories of both countries and so I always pay special attention to the WRC when it goes down under (the two APRC rounds I covered also reinforced my liking for both countries). Incidents - so many, but getting a lift back to my hotel in snowy Sweden from Richard Burns and Robert Reid in a hire car is probably my favourite. A perfect four-wheel drift into the hotel car park - I still remember the look of astonishment on the face of a man in the petrol station next door!

Oh yes, and the infamous ride with Colin McRae in a Focus when the BBC put on-board cameras in the car. My comment that "Richard seemed quicker when I had a ride with him last year" brought the reply, "Ah yes, but when the flag drops, the bullsh*t stops", which we used as the outwords, cutting to Richard and Colin laughing in the studio.......
Mark :) did you have anything to do with Greg Brain? I used to like Greg's work on WRR and had the chance to meet him at Rally Australia in 2002 when I had a photographers tabard :)

[markrally]

Daniel - do you mean Greg Strange? He runs The Broadcasting Company, which operates WRR.

If so, yes. I worked for Greg for a year (1995). It was actually Greg who first asked me to work on the WRC, as he'd been asked to come up with a way of using radio to promote the series. We did the first few events that year together, then I did the majority of the rallies on my own before we teamed up again for the (then) RAC Rally which saw Colin McRae win the world title.

When we parted company, I started working for BBC Worldwide doing the global TV programme and BBC Radio (mainly Radio 5 Live, but also the World Service and most of the networks). I still see Greg from time to time.

[Daniel]

Daniel - do you mean Greg Strange? He runs The Broadcasting Company, which operates WRR.

If so, yes. I worked for Greg for a year (1995). It was actually Greg who first asked me to work on the WRC, as he'd been asked to come up with a way of using radio to promote the series. We did the first few events that year together, then I did the majority of the rallies on my own before we teamed up again for the (then) RAC Rally which saw Colin McRae win the world title.

When we parted company, I started working for BBC Worldwide doing the global TV programme and BBC Radio (mainly Radio 5 Live, but also the World Service and most of the networks). I still see Greg from time to time.
Dunno why I said Brain. I meant strange :crazy: I think there's a Greg Brain here at work :mark:

Greg was a top bloke and a true professional much like yourself :) I really miss him being on WRR. He was excellent on WRR when he was on. Pity he doesn't do it anymore :(

[AndyRAC]

Dunno why I said Brain. I meant strange :crazy: I think there's a Greg Brain here at work :mark:

Greg was a top bloke and a true professional much like yourself :) I really miss him being on WRR. He was excellent on WRR when he was on. Pity he doesn't do it anymore :(

It is a pity that Mark or Greg do it anymore. In fact it's a pity nobody does it anymore on National radio, at least none that I'm aware of.
It would be interesting what Mark thinks of the current WRC, and were it has gone wrong, and what he thinks the future direction the sport should take.

[markrally]

Hmmmmm. Tricky one, this.

If I could put my finger on one thing, it would be the fascination with live TV. Rallying doesn't really work as a live event, unless you're there. Changing the character of the sport, with shorter routes and a central service park, damaged the very nature of the series. Coupled with the fact that only a few cars/drivers/teams got the bulk of the coverage, so lesser teams felt they were wasting their money. I can think of two good examples of teams who left the WRC, one of which had a British driver that the BBC used to feature regularly.

Of course, telling the television companies what they were having instead of asking them what they wanted might also have been a factor.....

[AndyRAC]

How many people have said that live TV doesn't work? Yet DR was convinced it was the way to go. It can't be a coincidence that since they made all these changes for TV the WRC has gone downhill, most of the challenge has gone, no Safari, anodyne events, etc.
Anyway, welcome to the forum Mark!

[Daniel]

Hmmmmm. Tricky one, this.

If I could put my finger on one thing, it would be the fascination with live TV. Rallying doesn't really work as a live event, unless you're there. Changing the character of the sport, with shorter routes and a central service park, damaged the very nature of the series. Coupled with the fact that only a few cars/drivers/teams got the bulk of the coverage, so lesser teams felt they were wasting their money. I can think of two good examples of teams who left the WRC, one of which had a British driver that the BBC used to feature regularly.

Of course, telling the television companies what they were having instead of asking them what they wanted might also have been a factor.....
Very true. I remember Rally Australia 2002. For me it was the last proper WRC event there :( Used Muresk and York Railway which were two great TV stages which always made for good coverage but of course with central service parks they just couldn't be used. 16 or so WRCar's which is a big number for a rally so far from Europe. Then next year there was a similar amount of cars but the route just wasn't the same. Compact and boring. I think some rallies can get away with compact but it just didn't work in Perth.

I think another problem (at least for me) is the camera angles. Rather than letting the car do the talking they do silly things like have a fixed camera which captures the exit of a corner and the car goes out of view and then comes back into view while the commentator blabs on :mark: Why not show these skilled drivers doing what they do like they did for years before? Then there is the overuse of the camera that looks up and back towards the driver and co-driver. I like a good variety of shots but I don't like that angle unless something interesting is happening like Petter's loose wheel on the Acropolis. The camera on top of the roof is too high to give the proper sense of speed. 90's style bumper cams and camera in the back mounted on the rollcage just gave you the feeling of speed and sideways just that bit more :)

I'm just a critical person though ;)

[Daniel]

How many people have said that live TV doesn't work? Yet DR was convinced it was the way to go. It can't be a coincidence that since they made all these changes for TV the WRC has gone downhill, most of the challenge has gone, no Safari, anodyne events, etc.
Anyway, welcome to the forum Mark!
Live TV can work but it shouldn't be 100% of the coverage. We had the final stage in Rally Australia live back in the 90's (can't remember which year) and it was good. Live TV could be the icing on the cake but if the cake is crap the icing's not going to save it.

[markrally]

Canal+ in Spain used to have some fantastic live coverage, but it took 20 cameras, two helicopters, three OB trucks and a light aircraft for each stage - no problem if you're a subscription channel! Even with those resources, the viewer still could only see one car at a time and telling the story in those circumstances is nigh-on impossible, not to say boring for the viewer. I agree that live TV has its place, but the way Channel 10 used to do it in Australia was probably the best I've seen - a short, final stage live, following an hour-long programme that told the story of the previous two and a half days.

The great thing about the WRC is the countries it visits. That, in itself, enables broadcasters to get across a sense of the country, the scenery, the people and the culture of the host country - like our coverage of Indonesia or China did. F1, for example, could never offer that (since one circuit looks very much like every other). Kenya, Western Australia, New Zealand and the Scandinavian rounds (particularly the snowy ones) all offered stunning shots that showed the amazing scenery. The Beeb loved using those shots and I'd like to think the viewers liked them as well.

[Daniel]

Canal+ in Spain used to have some fantastic live coverage, but it took 20 cameras, two helicopters, three OB trucks and a light aircraft for each stage - no problem if you're a subscription channel! Even with those resources, the viewer still could only see one car at a time and telling the story in those circumstances is nigh-on impossible, not to say boring for the viewer. I agree that live TV has its place, but the way Channel 10 used to do it in Australia was probably the best I've seen - a short, final stage live, following an hour-long programme that told the story of the previous two and a half days.

The great thing about the WRC is the countries it visits. That, in itself, enables broadcasters to get across a sense of the country, the scenery, the people and the culture of the host country - like our coverage of Indonesia or China did. F1, for example, could never offer that (since one circuit looks very much like every other). Kenya, Western Australia, New Zealand and the Scandinavian rounds (particularly the snowy ones) all offered stunning shots that showed the amazing scenery. The Beeb loved using those shots and I'd like to think the viewers liked them as well.
I find it sad that I'm finding this all nostalgic! I'm only 24 and the coverage you did isn't even that old but it seems light years ahead of what we have now.

I did think Channel 10's live coverage was good. It didn't try to offer too much which is the mistake I'm sure the current coverage would make if it was to attempt to go live. Just a few cameras throughout the stage and a commentator to read out times and give a bit of information about the driver and how they'd done in the rally. Then as you said there was a program afterwards to offer more traditional coverage. The only problem with Channel 10 is that they've never had a commentator who I would say was up to your level when it came to the WRC. They had the late great Barry Sheene who was great because he could walk up to a driver and the driver would treat him as an equal and he knew what to ask but that was about it :)

The location is to me very much what the WRC is about. I've only been to three different events (Australia, NZ and Finland) and if only people knew how nice the locations for all three rallies are then a lot more international people would get out to events :) The BBC coverage was great and always seemed to show of the location just that bit better than the current coverage does. I always felt proud to live in Perth when it was showed on the coverage because they made it look so nice ;)

I must sound like I'm about 60!

[duff]

I think another problem (at least for me) is the camera angles. Rather than letting the car do the talking they do silly things like have a fixed camera which captures the exit of a corner and the car goes out of view and then comes back into view while the commentator blabs on :mark: Why not show these skilled drivers doing what they do like they did for years before? Then there is the overuse of the camera that looks up and back towards the driver and co-driver. I like a good variety of shots but I don't like that angle unless something interesting is happening like Petter's loose wheel on the Acropolis. The camera on top of the roof is too high to give the proper sense of speed. 90's style bumper cams and camera in the back mounted on the rollcage just gave you the feeling of speed and sideways just that bit more :)


Couldn't agree more. The other point being that they keep chopping and changing the in-car cameras in a point of action so you can’t actually tell what’s happening. The first instance of this that I noticed was with Marcus Gronholm in 2004 (? Turkey? cant remember exactly) when he missed the breaking on tarmac went of the road and rolled down a hill. They used 3 or 4 different shots for this and you could never actually see what happened! Nothing illustrates a big moment, something spectacular or a crash like the fixed camera behind the driver on the roll cage.

[Daniel]

just watching the nz coverage and again they're pretending it's live. Why? Why? Why? I remember a story about old cricket matches (50's or 60's) being read out hours later in Australia as if they were live. That's what they're doing and it's embarrassing!

[J4MIE]

The BBC coverage was great and always seemed to show of the location just that bit better than the current coverage does.

Ah yes, good point :up: Being an avid traveller I also love to see a bit more of the rally's locations than just the stages/service. The BBC used to do some nice bits of coverage to appropriate music, and I'll always remember the RAC in 1983 (possibly) set to Vivaldi. Many years later, of course :p :

I remember clips of Mark doing some bits to camera on the shores of the Med in Corsica and San Remo, and indeed in a furry hat in Hagfors :D

Welcome again Mark, I must go back and watch all those old recordings....

[markrally]

I seem to remember the "pretend it's live" message was something that was starting to come in at about the time I parted company with the WRC and definitely came from ISC's top brass. It's not something I agreed with - perhaps that's one of the reasons I don't do it anymore - as anyone, not just a hardened rally fan, can tell that the programme is produced after the event. Even the nightly 26 minute programmes are put together hours after the events they show and pretending that events are happening as you're watching them sounds daft.

I've only just realised that I hadn't answered Josti's question from last week - sorry! It's an odd story, as I've actually done the voice-over on two WRC season reviews. The first (from about 1998) was never sold in the UK, although friends in Australia have a copy, while the other one was in 2002. The version that ended up on the shelves had John Desborough's voice on it, although I'm pretty sure it was the script I'd written. No matter, since I got paid for both!

[Daniel]

I seem to remember the "pretend it's live" message was something that was starting to come in at about the time I parted company with the WRC and definitely came from ISC's top brass. It's not something I agreed with - perhaps that's one of the reasons I don't do it anymore - as anyone, not just a hardened rally fan, can tell that the programme is produced after the event. Even the nightly 26 minute programmes are put together hours after the events they show and pretending that events are happening as you're watching them sounds daft.

Yup :) It sounds even worse when you live in the UK and you're watching the coverage of rally gb and they're pretending it's live and the coverage shows daytime stages and it's now 1am at night. To me the WRC is exciting enough without someone needing to pretend that it's live.

[AndyRAC]

Was watching some of the Rally reviews from 1997 on you tube yesterday, in particular New Zealand, and how it compared with the highlights from NZ 07. As well as Mark I think it was Peter Slater as well doing interviews. Although it's 11 years ago, it seems like a different sport, and Mark's enthusiasm really comes across, whereas todays commentator sound like they're reading from a script. While a close finish and great drive from both Marcus and Sebastien, it can't mask the faults the championship has. Look at the coverage in the papers this morning,....a boring F1 race gets more.

[RallyCat909]

I've only just realised that I hadn't answered Josti's question from last week - sorry!



*waves meekly*

[LotusElise]

Mark, (if you're there)
Is live event commentary something you would ever do? I go to a lot of historic events which normally end up being commentated by Tony Mason, who is very enthusiastic and personable but tends to forget people's names and mix things up. I imagine it's quite difficult to do and I wouldn't want to get rid of Tony, but he could really do with some more experienced help.

[BDunnell]

Ah yes, good point :up: Being an avid traveller I also love to see a bit more of the rally's locations than just the stages/service. The BBC used to do some nice bits of coverage to appropriate music, and I'll always remember the RAC in 1983 (possibly) set to Vivaldi. Many years later, of course :p :

I think that might have been the ITV review. The BBC, if I remember correctly, didn't do one in 1983. For me, the 1987 Scottish Rally coverage in which they used You're The Voice by John Farnham can never be bettered...

[BDunnell]

Mark, (if you're there)
Is live event commentary something you would ever do? I go to a lot of historic events which normally end up being commentated by Tony Mason, who is very enthusiastic and personable but tends to forget people's names and mix things up. I imagine it's quite difficult to do and I wouldn't want to get rid of Tony, but he could really do with some more experienced help.

When done well by journalists who can broadcast, it can be brilliant. I thought that Marcus Pye and Bruce Jones were really excellent at Goodwood at the weekend, for example.

[LotusElise]

Marcus Pye is generally very good, but he doesn't normally do the rally commentary.

[BDunnell]

Marcus Pye is generally very good, but he doesn't normally do the rally commentary.

I was making a general point about how good live event commentary can be at motorsport events if done well, rather than referring to rallying in any sense.

[markrally]

Sorry I haven't been able to reply to some of the points raised - I've been away driving the new Peugeot 308 for the last couple of days and I'm currently in the office about to edit the video.

RallyCat - sorry, I didn't realise I hadn't answered one of your questions. I've looked back through your posts and can't spot anything - let me know what you need answering! I did get your PM and you may well find me on your forum before too long.....

LotusElise - live commentary isn't something I've thought of doing. Bizarrely, the only time I've done anything like that is for the sport of scurry driving (two ponies pulling a small vehicle around a series of cones, against the clock). I helped out a friend when her usual commentator was ill - I thoroughly enjoyed the afternoon, but I doubt I'll be doing it again. As for rallying, I suspect people like Tony are a lot more experienced at doing that sort of thing than I'll ever be.

[markrally]

Before the mods shout at me, I know this isn't the right place for this but I didn't want to start a new thread!

It's been a while since I've been in a rally car, but I managed a brief spell in the left hand seat of an RS200 on Monday at the Rally Day media preview and I've just finished editing a report for the site:

http://www.ukcarnews.com/features.php?show=207

Made me all nostalgic......

PS Mods please feel free to move this post if you don't feel this thread is the right place for it.

[Vatanen]

Hi Mark great to see you on this forum.
Firstly I’d like to convey my sentiments that for all of us you are still the only voice for the WRC. You may have gone on to pastures new but your journalistic efforts will be remembered fondly well into the future

Like you mentioned you spend 8 yrs covering the WRC and got the opportunity to rub shoulders with some of the All time greats of the Sport. Can you give an insight to what kind of Characters they really were?

Was McRae really "As Mad as a hatter"?
Nicky attended a forum over here in Ireland nearly two yrs ago now West Cork Rally 05 and the one or two stories he told the audience were hilarious

[RallyCat909]

Before the mods shout at me, I know this isn't the right place for this but I didn't want to start a new thread!

It's been a while since I've been in a rally car, but I managed a brief spell in the left hand seat of an RS200 on Monday at the Rally Day media preview and I've just finished editing a report for the site:

http://www.ukcarnews.com/features.php?show=207

Made me all nostalgic......

PS Mods please feel free to move this post if you don't feel this thread is the right place for it.



Great post Mark. My question I had was about the current interest in rallying in the US is snowballing and many fans here are excitedly awaiting a WRC event in our neck of the woods. Have you ever been to a US rally event and if not, would you ever consider in addition to any other thoughts you may have on the topic. :)

[markrally]

Vatanen - I found most of the characters in the WRC to be very helpful and well aware of the job the BBC crew were trying to do. As a result, they'd go out of their way to help us out and so get publicity for the sport as well as themselves and their team. I'm thinking particularly of people like Carlos Sainz, who gave us an interview at Cardiff airport while nursing an injured shoulder (done playing football - asked us not to mention anything, since his then boss didn't know he'd hurt himself....) Tommi Makinen was great fun - we worked out that we had to ask him a stupid question to start with, which would make him laugh, so his first "proper" answer would be upbeat (and would be the one we'd normally use). Once he started thinking about the answer and the problem of translating from Finnish to English, there'd be a sigh and things would slow down. I'm sure you remember the kind of answer I mean!

Colin had a reputation for being a bit mad, but he was actually quite shy. For a number of reasons, he disliked the media and so came across as quite arrogant on occasions, even dismissive. I can't remember the number of times he'd leave Nicky Grist to answer the inevitable "what happened?" question. Having said that, I think I gained his trust over the years I worked on the WRC and I understand from an Australian colleague that he once said some very nice things about me.

There were some "challenging" moments on occasions and some drivers, co-drivers and team managers who weren't happy at being interviewed. I made the mistake of asking Corrado Provera a question in too strong a manner on one occasion and he never let me forget it. Juha Kankkunen could be quite off-handed, yet he graciously allowed us to tag along on a private visit to his car collection and even served us himself at the barbeque afterwards.

Ah, memories.....

RallyCat - I honestly doubt whether the WRC will be welcomed in the USA for a long time. It's undoubtedly a big marketplace, but problems with liability (or, at least the perception that there's a problem) and the fact that no major TV channel currently runs the series would make an American round much less likely to happen than, say, a round in somewhere like Asia or Africa. Also, the Championship is currently going through a process of actually shrinking in size, in an effort to reduce costs and so entice new manufacturers to join. As a result, a number of existing events are competing for a slot in the WRC and so a brand new rally in the USA would have to join the back of the line.

Sorry if that's dashed your hopes, but I can't see that position changing for the foreseeable future.

[markrally]

Oops - just realised that I've only partly answered RallyCat's question.

No, I've never been to an American event, although I came close once! My in-laws live in Reading, PA and there's a round of the American national championship not too far away from them (I was going to say the Susquehannock Rally, but I might be mistaken). I got invited by someone on the Speed TV forum, but the date clashed with something I was doing in the UK.

There's also the annual Duryea hillclimb in Reading itself. I missed that by 24 hours a few years ago (we were leaving the day before the event) and so that's something I've promised myself I will go to one day.

[m0rk]

Saw you this morning on BBC News 24 Mark, was bleary eyed & thought "I know that guy"

Great shame that the 'news' was what it was though

[Daniel]

Saw you this morning on BBC News 24 Mark, was bleary eyed & thought "I know that guy"

Great shame that the 'news' was what it was though
Just saw him too :( I'm so sorry it wasn't good news :(

[RallyCat909]

Found another vid of Mark and Jeremy Hart!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNtYMQ3_Jd4&mode=related&search=

With a surprised young Finn leading the rally that recently announced his retirement. ;)


Mark, you and Jeremy get your asses back in commentating rallying, we need more great memories!