Openwheel drivers to NASCAR

[RaceFanStan]

Every time we look another F1/IRL/CC/??? driver is rumored or reported to be coming to NASCAR. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Everyone has varying opinions on that with the openwheel fans being the loudest. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

:arrow: Instead of starting a new thread every time a new rumor appears, post it here.
That way anyone who cares can go to 1 thread & sing their driver's praises together. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

Previous threads will be merged here.

[Mark in Oshawa]

race aficionado (http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/member.php?u=70968)
:up: JV to finally join the truck series????? - 24th Aug 07, 10:49



It's the buzz ou there . . . again.

I do hope JV joins the NASCAR circus. He has a very large and feisty fan base and can bring some excitement to the series.
Also, once he's in, the doors will open for Bush & Nextel series.

Let's see if this time it's for real.

:s mokin:


I have the link to the story on TSN up here in Canada: http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story/?ID=216753&hubname=

I think this is great news. One thing is for sure, they wont have a PR zombie. Jacques shoots from the hip and isn't afraid to hold his own out there....it could get interesting if he starts beating and banging on someone. I do think this may be the first time ever, or certainly in a long time that an f1 world champion has gotten behind the wheel of anything in NASCAR. I do think Jackie Stewart tried driving at Daytona once, but I am not sure.....

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Another arrogant knob. he will get along great with the Busch brothers, Kevin Harvick and Tony Stewart.

[MD24]

In today's Journal de Montreal it says that if the testing goes well, he could be racing in the truck series next month in Vegas.

[blakebeatty]

NASCAR.com is reporting JV to Bill Davis Cup program in 2008

[ShiftingGears]

Good luck to him!

[Jonesi]

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/08/24/jvilleneuve.bdavis.cup/index.html

[race aficionado]

My man Juan is happy.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61746


Montoya backs Villeneuve's move

By Diego Mejia
Friday, August 24th 2007, 23:00 GMT


Juan Pablo Montoya has welcomed Jacques Villeneuve's move into NASCAR, after it was announced today that the former Formula One world champion will be testing a Crafstman Series truck on Monday, hoping to start his stock-car career.

Villeneuve himself had backed Montoya's move to NASCAR when he learned about it last year, showing since then that he has interest in the series.

"I think it's cool," Montoya said about Villeneuve's move. "I think it's nice to see Jacques and hopefully he does well. If I can help in any way I will. He's a nice guy.

"He was a little bit like me. You know, he likes racing and he's an aggressive guy and I think he'll like it. I'm sure he will like it. We both run hard and people don't like that. I guess people here like it. Some do, some don't but I think the fans love it."

[JasonD]

Interesting comments from Juan, considering what he said about him during their shared F1 days.

[POS_Maggott]

I don't understand how some people still doubt that he'll be racing.

I'll eat my shoe if he doesn't run the races that BDR says he will. Seriously. My shoe.

[dwboogityfan]

This is more great news for NASCAR in my opinion. Villeneuve will add further international credibility to the series and gain more press coverage. He was always interesting in F1 - and his no-nonsense style will likely make him someone NASCAR fans love to hate (kind of like JPM). My only worry is that #36 has been poor this season and of NASCAR continues the top 35 rule into 2008 he will struggle to make races.

[Spotter]

This is more great news for NASCAR in my opinion...

Great News, JV and Monty against the Nascar Stars !!!

Greetings from Heidelberg, Germany.

Spotter

[RaikkonenRules]

Bill Davis Racing plans to field a full-time Sprint Cup entry for former Formula One world champion Jacques Villeneuve in 2008, team owner Bill Davis said Friday at Bristol Motor Speedway. Davis said the plan right now is to run Villeneuve in the #22 Craftsman Truck Series entry later this season, as well as test the Car of Tomorrow. BDR will also field a car for Villeneuve in the ARCA race at Talladega in October in preparation for the Daytona 500 in 2008, Davis said. Then? "And then we'll go Cup racing next year," Davis said. Davis said that Villeneuve's jump to Cup doesn't necessarily mean he'll be in the #36 Toyota and that a three-car team "is a possibility." Veteran Nextel Cup crew chief Slugger Labbe will lead Villeneuve's team, Davis said. Villeneuve will debut in NASCAR during a CTS test at Chicagoland Speedway on Monday. The hope right now is debut him in a CTS race next month in Las Vegas. "It is an experiment, if you will," Davis said. "But he's pretty confident he can do it, and we are, too. I think it'll work out just fine.

If all goes according to plan, 1997 Formula 1 World Driving Champion and 1995 Indianapolis 500 winner Jacques Villeneuve will replace #36-Jeremy Mayfield next year in a Bill Davis Racing Nextel Cup Toyota. Team General Manager Mike Brown said over the next six weeks, Villeneuve will undergo an intensive testing program that will include seat time in a Craftsman Truck Series entry and possibly an ARCA car at Talladega Superspeedway in October. “That’s what we hope to do, that’s what he feels like he’d like to do,” Brown said when asked if Villeneuve would drive a BDR Cup car next season. “Obviously, the whole NASCAR program is new to him, so we’re going to put together an aggressive test program for him. The truck … is much like the COT car we’ll be racing next year. Obviously, he’s got to go through the validation process with NASCAR, so we’re looking at places we can go run him in trucks, maybe in the ARCA series … an aggressive test program, not only with the trucks, but with the COT cars … Kentucky (Speedway), all the different places we can go to.” Brown said sponsor 360 OTC likely will not be back with BDR next season

jayski.com

[SmokeFan20]

I always liked JV.
He is pretty underrated.
He won the PPG ICWS/CART Championship & Indianapolis 500 when they were both at there most competitive state.
And he won the Formula 1 World Drivers Championship.
His biggest mistake that hurt his career was signing with BAR Honda.
They may have offered him the money, but they didn't offer him a competitive car.
After after a few years of running at the middle and back of the pack with BAR, the front running teams wanted nothing to do with him.

[Jonesi]

The only way I see this happening so fast is JV has a sponsor lined up / interested.
Also he didn't seem so interested in Nascar, with "maybe it's something I'd like to do" quotes. I wonder if the success of the Busch race in Montreal earlier this month had anything to do with motivating him? ;-)

[geek49203]

I always liked JV.
He is pretty underrated.
He won the PPG ICWS/CART Championship & Indianapolis 500 when they were both at there most competitive state.
And he won the Formula 1 World Drivers Championship.
His biggest mistake that hurt his career was signing with BAR Honda.
They may have offered him the money, but they didn't offer him a competitive car.
After after a few years of running at the middle and back of the pack with BAR, the front running teams wanted nothing to do with him.

I suspect that he became personna non grata due to his personality too. It happens.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Not only are many of the skills needed in NASCAR the exact opposite of those learned in open-wheeled racing, but the open wheel guys struggle the first time they reach for a weight jacker and it's not there.

On top of that, a F1 car doesn't rely on the driver for input on the performance of the car, since they have bazillion-dollar telemetry systems. Although some teams use those in testing, as well as chassis simulation programs, the series still relies heavily on the driver working with the crew chief via good old-fashioned talking.

JV has one advantage though that most OW guys don't, in that he has won on ovals in open wheel. Like JPM, he has won the Indy 500, and when JV went to f1, he took a lot of the oval racing mentality with him when it came to setups. His pass where he went around the outside of Schuy in Estoril was because he set the car up like he was racing on an oval to take advantage of that one corner. He isn't afraid to try new things or learn, and I think he can make the adjustment. The key for any of these guys is to be able to have the time and luxury of working with a team who are patient to learn.

[Mark in Oshawa]

JV wants to race again, and f1 is out, and CCWS is someplace he wont be bothered with. The IRL has never asked and JV isn't going to go there and run ovals for a nickel when he can go to NASCAR and get a whole dollar.

If Bill Davis Racing puts him in the car for the next season full time, I will be thrilled as a Canadian fan and a fan of JV, but I doubt it will be an easy season. Jacques is gonna find out that this playground has lots of tough nasty people who wont have a problem with knocking him around, so I hope he goes into the corners "Elbows up" as we say in hockey......

[JasonD]

The only way I see this happening so fast is JV has a sponsor lined up / interested.
Also he didn't seem so interested in Nascar, with "maybe it's something I'd like to do" quotes. I wonder if the success of the Busch race in Montreal earlier this month had anything to do with motivating him? ;-)

Hes been making a run to get into NASCAR for over a year now and has talked to several team owners. His comment was from quite a while ago. JV sees that NASCAR is a great opportunity and thinks he go do well going against the best in oval racing.

[harvick#1]

looks like BDR will get a few more Sundays off now with the 36 team :p :

[Jonesi]

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=2&id=2991229

Seems he's a little past 50/50 now.

[Roamy]

unfortunately for a lot of you I think ole Caviar Boy is going to kick a lot of "Fried Chicken Ass" And it won't take him a lot of time to start doin it!!!

[Komahawk]

I'm sure he'll manage to come up with a top20 result every now and then, as soon as he gets used to the new car.

[RaikkonenRules]

Penske racing have anounced on jayski that Sam Hornish will run 5-6 races in the #77 this year.

[Lee Roy]

I'm looking forward to Jacques driving in NASCAR. I've been a big fan of his since I first saw him race at Nazareth in 1995.

[JasonD]

Every time we look another F1/IRL/CC/??? driver is rumored or reported to be coming to NASCAR. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Everyone has varying opinions on that with the openwheel fans being the loudest. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

:arrow: Instead of starting a new thread every time a new rumor appears, post it here.
That way anyone who cares can go to 1 thread & sing their driver's praises together. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

Previous threads will be merged here.

I find this funny and well obviously a sign of how you feel about OWR.

To lump everyone into one pile is like merging the threads on where Dale Jr and Busch were going, both impact each other so why did they have separate threads?

[muggle not]

There are some good O.W. drivers and I expect to see some of them win a race. That is what is great about Nascar, even the mid-pack drivers can win a race now and then.

[The Phantom]

I always liked JV.
His biggest mistake that hurt his career was signing with BAR Honda.

I disagree - I think when he started nailing Danni Minogue, his racing career went down in flames - but happy flames, mind you ;)

Speaking of Aussies, Marcus Ambrose did quite well in open wheel racing in the UK - he was comfortably beating Kimi Raikkonen for a while there...

[RaceFanStan]

I find this funny and well obviously a sign of how you feel about OWR.

To lump everyone into one pile is like merging the threads on where Dale Jr and Busch were going, both impact each other so why did they have separate threads?
I'm doing the best I can.
I just took over a short while back.
BTW, I very recently just learned how to merge the threads/posts.

Number One is that this is the NASCAR forum.
While the openwheel drivers looking at NASCAR is news ...
the number of threads to be used for openwheel drivers has to be limited.
If that offends someone I guess you have the right to complain to someone up the ladder.

I will also be merging NASCAR driver threads when they occur.

Just so it is known, I used to love openwheel racing before the split.
I still have favorites in the openwheel series'.
My openwheel favorites are :
In ChampCar, Paul Tracy is a long-time favorite of mine.
I'm also liking a young driver named Will Power.
I got somewhat familar with Oriol Servia when he subbed for an injured Paul Tracy. (good driver !)
Many of my ChampCar favorites are gone/retired/went to IRL/now team owners :
Jimmy Vasser, Mario & Michael Andretti, Al Unser Sr, Bobby Rahal, Danny Sullivan, Alex Zanardi, Rick Mears, Emerson Fittipaldi, AJ Foyt, & Scott Goodyear.

In IndyCar my favorites are : Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti, Sam Hornish Jr, Helio Castroneves, Scott Sharp, Buddy Rice, Buddy Lazier & Al Unser Jr.

So, people shouldn't say that I hate openwheel racing because I don't hate it.
In fact I find several of the Champ/Indy drivers quite capable & sometimes entertaining.
The split damaged both series & yet they both still STRUGGLE to survive.
The openwheel racing just doesn't speak to me the way it used to ......

[Jonesi]

I'm doing the best I can.
I just took over a short while back.
BTW, I very recently just learned how to merge the threads/posts.
Number One is that this is the NASCAR forum.
While the openwheel drivers looking at NASCAR is news ... the number of threads to be used for openwheel drivers has to be limited.
snip...

On the technical side of merged threads: When viewing in "hybrid" thread mode which I normally do. The display of messages only goes as far as the first thread. The rest are orphaned below, and the only way to get lower is to click on each message in the overview box. Is it possible to append them better so they flow?

On the editorial side of merged threads: I don't have a problem with merging all the OW driver rumors, but I think once they have a deal, they become Nascar drivers and deserve a seperate thread for the signing/deal.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Stan, reading your rationale, It works for me for now. That said, as Jones points out, once they are signed, you will have to allow for individual threads.

BTW, I watched "Inside Nextel Cup" and they were promoting their new SPEED reality show about NASCAR and they had the footage of JV in the shop and in the cockpit being fitted. So he is serious and he is looking for a fit in NASCAR.

I like many JV fans hopes he will do well, but with JV, you often get a lot of noise to go with the results. Love him or hate him, he will speak his mind, both in the media and behind the wheel. Unlike most of the F1 guys, he is like Montoya, not afraid to mix it up and not afraid of ovals. It will help his learning curve, but man it is going to be steep, and I am not convinced Bill Davis has the pieces there to put the best car under him. JPM is at least with Ganassi, who has the bucks, the resources and the proven engine program from Dodge. BDR is no different than most of the Toyota teams.....struggling...

[ShiftingGears]

The split damaged both series & yet they both still STRUGGLE to survive.
The openwheel racing just doesn't speak to me the way it used to ......

And thats really why several North American open wheeler drivers want to make the switch to NASCAR. F1 is probably out of the equation for them and theres more of a career in NASCAR than CCWS or IRL. Whether they will have the same passion for NASCAR than as for OW racing is up to the individual, but there is definitely more of a queue of people wanting to get into NASCAR, generally meaning tougher racing and more $$$.

[Robert Ryan]

Scott Dixon, Dario Franchetti the next lot? Remember Tony Stewart came from the IRL, with less of a winning streak to Scott. It was rumoured he would be trying a Busch car.

[JasonD]

I'm doing the best I can.
I just took over a short while back.
BTW, I very recently just learned how to merge the threads/posts.

Number One is that this is the NASCAR forum.
While the openwheel drivers looking at NASCAR is news ...
the number of threads to be used for openwheel drivers has to be limited.
If that offends someone I guess you have the right to complain to someone up the ladder.

I will also be merging NASCAR driver threads when they occur.

Just so it is known, I used to love openwheel racing before the split.
I still have favorites in the openwheel series'.
My openwheel favorites are :
In ChampCar, Paul Tracy is a long-time favorite of mine.
I'm also liking a young driver named Will Power.
I got somewhat familar with Oriol Servia when he subbed for an injured Paul Tracy. (good driver !)
Many of my ChampCar favorites are gone/retired/went to IRL/now team owners :
Jimmy Vasser, Mario & Michael Andretti, Al Unser Sr, Bobby Rahal, Danny Sullivan, Alex Zanardi, Rick Mears, Emerson Fittipaldi, AJ Foyt, & Scott Goodyear.

In IndyCar my favorites are : Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti, Sam Hornish Jr, Helio Castroneves, Scott Sharp, Buddy Rice, Buddy Lazier & Al Unser Jr.

So, people shouldn't say that I hate openwheel racing because I don't hate it.
In fact I find several of the Champ/Indy drivers quite capable & sometimes entertaining.
The split damaged both series & yet they both still STRUGGLE to survive.
The openwheel racing just doesn't speak to me the way it used to ......

Sounds fare. :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

In Today's Toronto Sun, Dean McNulty's motorsports column has a good Dale Earnhardt story, but also, a great comment from Allan McNish, a former f1 driver with Toyota on JV's jump to NASCAR:

The last word on Villeneuve's move to NASCAR, however, will go to his old F-1 buddy Allan McNish, who upon hearing of his truck test told Sun Media: "He should do just fine. After all he drove one for five years when he was with Honda."


Cue the rimshot!!!



Oh ya...the link...with a wishful thinking rumour to get the Craftsman Trucks to Mosport:

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2007/08/28/4451771-sun.html

[call_me_andrew]

This is more great news for NASCAR in my opinion. Villeneuve will add further international credibility to the series and gain more press coverage. He was always interesting in F1 - and his no-nonsense style will likely make him someone NASCAR fans love to hate (kind of like JPM). My only worry is that #36 has been poor this season and of NASCAR continues the top 35 rule into 2008 he will struggle to make races.

Somehow I get the feeling that having a NEXTEL Cup driver move to F1 would add more credibility.

And Stan, if you want this to be the only thread involving OW drivers, you could at least stickey it.

[wedge]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/craftsman/nascar/39810/

JV has completed two days of testing and was immediately up to speed. His best lap was two-tenths off Mike Skinner in Toyota Tundra.

Can't wait to see him in Cup cars. He'll give the likes of Tony Stewart a good taste of their own medicine on and off the track! :D

[DonnieDarco]

I must admit, I eagerly await the day JV gets on the wrong side of Tony :laugh:

[Roamy]

JV Rawks in Chicagoland


“Jacques did very well,” said BDR Truck Team Manager Mark Chambers. “He gives incredible feedback and adapted to the truck extremely well. Overall, I would have to say that he was very impressive on and off the track. He will be a great asset to BDR.”

[ShiftingGears]

Oh ya...the link...with a wishful thinking rumour to get the Craftsman Trucks to Mosport:


Yes please!!!

It'll be interesting seeing JVs nascar career unfold.

[BobbyC]

Bill and Gail Davis was able to obtain for the third BDR truck the old #27, and race fans know how emotional a number can be.

For some reason, his best racing in North America was with the #27, and nothing speaks more about his character than that #27. When he races at Vegas, that #27 will mean more to Jacques than it does for BDR or NASCAR; it reflects on a father whose death when he was young affected him.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I must admit, I eagerly await the day JV gets on the wrong side of Tony :laugh:

JV I would think is smarter than that. Smoke is just a little bit bigger. Heck, my 13 year old daughter is bigger than JV....

The only dark cloud I see is the fact he isn't signed for next year. Why? It seems Craig Pollock is in there messing about "negotiating". Here is a clue. JV aint racing no where else next year, whereas a lot of people want that ride. Get him signed and go away Craig!

[JasonD]

JV I would think is smarter than that. Smoke is just a little bit bigger. Heck, my 13 year old daughter is bigger than JV....

The only dark cloud I see is the fact he isn't signed for next year. Why? It seems Craig Pollock is in there messing about "negotiating". Here is a clue. JV aint racing no where else next year, whereas a lot of people want that ride. Get him signed and go away Craig!

Craig P has been a problem for JV for a while now. It seams like a weird relationship. Craig had a pretty good hand in screwing up JVs F1 career, lets hope he doesnt do the same this go around.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Craig was his TEACHER in school in Switzerland. He is out of his element as a manager, but somehow he has BSed his way into a lot of things with Jacques. He did alright in the early days of JV's career but in F1, he got JV into the worst deal in f1 history career wise (it did pay well). I would hope he just gets Jacques behind the wheel and doesn't play games. NASCAR people don't play games.....and Pollock will find this out the hard way if he starts giving the primadonna act to Davis. Bill could get 10 young guys tomorrow who would eat dirt to get a full time ride in NASCAR, so JV doesn't have a lot of negotiating room....

[muggle not]

I have a question. I am sure that F1 has good drivers and it is probably fun to watch. However, why are there only 22 teams that compete. Is it lack of sponsors or talented drivers or what?

In Nascar the sponsors really get a bang-for-the-buck due to the exposure they get on TV and at the tracks. Yes, the drivers mention their sponsor at every chance. That is why there are 50 some teams that are getting pretty big bucks to keep their operation going. I have had a couple conversations with the Sponsorship Manager for Dupont and, believe me, they are very happy with their Nascar involvement.

[harvick#1]

I have a question. I am sure that F1 has good drivers and it is probably fun to watch. However, why are there only 22 teams that compete. Is it lack of sponsors or talented drivers or what?


I think its more just Money to run the teams, with all the testingf and ways to get the car completely perfect, you've got to shell out some big bucks to compete with Manufactuers like Ferrari, Mclaren-Merecedes, Toyota, Honda, Renault, and BMW.

plus I think they don't want a whole bunch of field fillers who can ruin a race by taking out the leaders

[Erki]

@muggle not: next year there will be 24 cars in F1. And 24 is the maximum numbers of cars that could compete... Pretty sad IMO. :)

[Jimmy Magnusson]

@muggle not: next year there will be 24 cars in F1. And 24 is the maximum numbers of cars that could compete... Pretty sad IMO. :)

While 24 cars is just about six cars too low, you can't very well run 43 cars around Monaco can you?

Ah. NASCAR at Monaco, that would be something!

[JasonD]

I have a question. I am sure that F1 has good drivers and it is probably fun to watch. However, why are there only 22 teams that compete. Is it lack of sponsors or talented drivers or what?


The number of teams is stipulated by the governing body, they felt 24 was a good number I guess.

Next year there will be MIGHT 24 teams after quite a while of having a smaller field.

One of the key issues is getting into the sport. Teams have to pony up like 60 or 80 million as a bond to say "Yes we will show up every other weekend to drive and not embarrase ourselves or F1 by noshowing". They get the money back in installments over the next few years.

Try finding a sponsor willing to pony up that kind of cash right from the start, thats why you see most teams being bought up and then renamed, its a lot cheaper.

[Erki]

While 24 cars is just about six cars too low, you can't very well run 43 cars around Monaco can you?

Ah. NASCAR at Monaco, that would be something!

They manage 37 cars at Macau. But OK, Macau is also a lot longer.

They could then just let less cars out into the race at Monaco then. :)

[DonnieDarco]

JV I would think is smarter than that. Smoke is just a little bit bigger. Heck, my 13 year old daughter is bigger than JV....

I don't think JV is smarter than that, but we'll see! :D

[Hondo]

For some reason I can't locate the post by geek49203 that Mark in Oshawa quotes on page 1 pertaining to an F1 driver's reliance on technology but Jacques never cared for the technology level and driver's aids in F1 and that was a large part of his problems there. Now that he is coming back to slick tires and a vehicle that he can set up to suit him and no electronic driver's aids, I think many people are going to be surprised to find the man can still drive a race car. Still and all, it is kind of amusing to picture Jacques behind the wheel of a pickup. I think he'll do well.

[call_me_andrew]

I have a question. I am sure that F1 has good drivers and it is probably fun to watch. However, why are there only 22 teams that compete. Is it lack of sponsors or talented drivers or what?

In Nascar the sponsors really get a bang-for-the-buck due to the exposure they get on TV and at the tracks. Yes, the drivers mention their sponsor at every chance. That is why there are 50 some teams that are getting pretty big bucks to keep their operation going. I have had a couple conversations with the Sponsorship Manager for Dupont and, believe me, they are very happy with their Nascar involvement.

Technically, it's 11 teams that compete. And the developement costs don't even compare. Thanks to the COT, even if you build your own cars from the ground up, you're using the same blueprints as everyone else. The chassis, suspensions, transmissions, brakes, etc are all the same from one car to the next. F1 teams have to build their own unique cars from the ground up. As long as it passes a crash test and doesn't put winglets where they don't belong, it's fine and dandy. That's why F1 budgets are 10 times the size of NEXTEL Cup budgets.

I wouldn't worry about sponsor exposure at all. According to Jayski, last week's Bristol race had about 5.7 million viewers. The average F1 race draws about 300 million viewers. Ferrari can only have Marlboro's name on the car for 3 races this year, but Marlboro is still happy to be on the car.

[Robert Ryan]

have a question. I am sure that F1 has good drivers and it is probably fun to watch. However, why are there only 22 teams that compete. Is it lack of sponsors or talented drivers or what?
Ferrari proably spends $400-$500 million on their team, that would cover the bulk of the Nextel Cup teams.

[Lee Roy]

However, why are there only 22 teams that compete.

F1 is a "closed shop" racing series. You have to be part of the "club" to compete. Next year the club is expanding to 24 cars (or 12 teams). Maybe.

[Lee Roy]

Thanks to the COT, even if you build your own cars from the ground up, you're using the same blueprints as everyone else. The chassis, suspensions, transmissions, brakes, etc are all the same from one car to the next.

That's nonsense.


A racer at heart, Ronnie Johncox builds a new generation of cars
THATSRACIN.COM OPINION
By DAVID POOLE - The Charlotte Observer
BRISTOL, Tenn. – Nextel Cup teams raced the car of tomorrow for the second time at Bristol on Saturday night, returning to the scene of its debut earlier this year.

In the fast-moving world of NASCAR’s top series, the cars the teams ran this time were significantly refined from those used in that first race won by Kyle Busch.

Even though NASCAR has significantly tightened the “box” in which teams are allowed to work on the new generation car, rest assured every Nextel Cup operation is constantly looking for a better way to build that mousetrap. That’s where Ronnie Johncox comes in. Johncox has a company called Technique, based not far from Michigan International Speedway near the town of Jackson. He began it in 1991, with his father’s help, when he was still a student at Michigan State and still harboring desires to be a race-car driver.

Technique made parts prototypes for various kinds of industries. A company would send Johncox a drawing and he’d use computerized forming and laser cutting machinery to turn that into reality. The business grew, and so did Johncox’s desire to race. He competed in the U.S. Auto Club’s midget series and made six starts in the Indy Racing League in 1999. He moved from there to the Infiniti Pro Series, but in 2003 gave up the search for sponsorships. Now, he races go-karts when he can find the time.

What’s he’s also doing is building parts that were in several of the cars on the track Saturday night at Bristol.

Think of it as a type of outsourcing. The racing part of Technique’s business is growing. Its primary product is a chassis “kit” for Cup cars of tomorrow. A standard kit – really a misnomer since each kit is “optimized” to preferences specific to each team Johncox works with – contains 47 components. Cup teams weld the parts together to form the central “greenhouse” area of a new car of tomorrow. It started innocently enough. A top-tier Nextel Cup team – Johncox is careful about talking specifics when it comes to clients – asked him to create prototypes for things it wanted to try on its cars. Johncox and his employees use computers and machines of all shapes and sizes to build things to exacting standards. On a brief tour of his shop, he points out a six-axis laser cutting machine and tries to explain what it does to somebody who’s still trying to figure out how you can possibly have more than three axes and isn’t totally convinced the limit isn’t actually two.

When the new cars are inspected by NASCAR before bodies are even hung, they’re held to exacting tolerances that teams used to hand-crafting cars at first found hard to meet. Johncox and his machines can make parts, over and over again, to exact sizes and shapes with cuts made at precise angles.

They can grind steel tubes so they’re all within fractions of fractions of the same thickness – which can be important when you’re building race cars and weight is important. How precise is Johncox’s work? Ask him how much steel each kit contains, and he says it’s “about” 242.629 pounds. Johncox said he’s shipped about 100 kits so far. Six cars made with his kits have won COT races this year. He’s selling kits to five teams.

Even though each kit has the same number of components, each is enough different so that if he shipped Team A’s order to Team B by mistake, Team B couldn’t get the components to fit right with the parts and processes it uses to build a car.

It stands to reason Johncox knows as much about how different teams are tweaking their new cars as anybody in the business. Why wouldn’t one team offer him an obscene amount of money to use all of what he knows to help them build the best cars and not do work for anybody else? “One already has,” Johncox says. He turned the offer down. The way he figures it, if he has only one customer, what happens if that customer goes away? And if he tells that customer everything he knows, why would that customer need him anymore? After all, he’s still a racer at heart, too.

[JasonD]

For some reason I can't locate the post by geek49203 that Mark in Oshawa quotes on page 1 pertaining to an F1 driver's reliance on technology but Jacques never cared for the technology level and driver's aids in F1 and that was a large part of his problems there. Now that he is coming back to slick tires and a vehicle that he can set up to suit him and no electronic driver's aids, I think many people are going to be surprised to find the man can still drive a race car. Still and all, it is kind of amusing to picture Jacques behind the wheel of a pickup. I think he'll do well.

JV is one of those guys that uses his a$$ to tell him what the car is doing and not rely on the technology.

Hes gotten into some arguments with the engineers after he told them what the car "feels" like its doing despite what the telemetry is saying.

[wedge]

Thanks Lee Roy, I wouldn't be surprised if Hendrick and Roush have CAD designers in their workshops.

Regards to JV, he's been know to be work with unorthodox set ups such as the dampers and spring rates

[Lee Roy]

Regards to JV, he's been know to be work with unorthodox set ups such as the dampers and spring rates

I remember seeing JV on the < 1 mile oval at Nazareth in 1995. He was in a battle with Emmerson Fittipaldi during the waning laps of the race (a former world champ and future world champ). It was amazing what he was doing with that car on the short straight between the flag and the first turn. That was the last race before he made up two laps at Indy and won the last real Indy 500.

[ms0362]

Open wheel is hurting. These guys are trying to find a regular income.

[Breeze]

Open wheel is hurting. These guys are trying to find a regular income.

Or in JV's case, some racing to do. FWIW, during his F1 tenure, he probably raked in over $100 Million in salary. Then there's the endorsements, etc., etc. I'd say he's sitting pretty and not doing it for the income.

Juan Pablo made millions in F1 as well. He's not poor by a long shot.

Like Jeff G, Tony, Dale Jr. and more, they've all made enough money to stop racing tomorrow and live very comfortably off the interest. They race because they love it and have the desire to win.

JPM, Scott Speed, JV, and perhaps more soon. NASCAR is getting so cosmopolitan! I'd start watching on a regular basis if it didn't eat up 3 hours of prime Sunday afternoon time.

[Lee Roy]

NASCAR is getting so cosmopolitan! I'd start watching on a regular basis if it didn't eat up 3 hours of prime Sunday afternoon time.

That's where a DVR comes in handy. It cuts out about 1/3rd of the time and can be done on Sunday night.

[IndianChiefJoy]

This exodus to NASCAR from formulas has an Evangelist: Montoya. He has never been afraid of taking leaps of faiths and is the king of cross-over in american series. In 1998, with his F3000 championship Juan was looking for a seat at Williams, sir Frank opted for twice CART champion Alex Zanardi for the coming season (big mistake for Willimas). Juan was sent to CART, in a move that was seen like carrer suicide by his european peers, but he was champion as a rookie with some records added, and was hired later for Williams to drive in F1. Some others tried to do the same, but only Bourdais has been able to do so.

When Indycar was dividen into CART/IRL, Tony George took the Jewel of The Crown with him, Indy 500. No drivers from CART raced in IRL. Ganassi lined up an IRL team with Vasser and Montoya. In a different series, with different cars, tires and engines, and also in a track he never raced before, he won with ease, more or less the same ease that we saw from him at the Brickyard this year. After such a demonstration, the rest of CART teams lined up driver for Indy 500 with regularity. This led to the CART teams to slowly migrate to IRL, and left the once premier open-wheel series in America like an empty shell. I wonder if Montoya had, not intentionally, a lot to do with the fall of CART.

Now, after 5 seasons in F1, Montoya goes back to USA, with his former employer to NASCAR. A move that was seen like almost irrational, now seems to have a lot of sense. The doubts about how an OW star can adapt to stocks has been almost cleared. And now that Juan opened the gate, many open-wheel aces will jump. Not all of them will succed, because Juan made it look easy, but it's extremely hard to adapt to stocks with no experience and been competitive in your first full season.

So, if you want a nickname for Juan, it could be American Cross-Over, or Open-Wheel killer.

[Jonesi]

snip...So, if you want a nickname for Juan, it could be American Cross-Over, or Open-Wheel killer.

It's already "Juan and only!" ;-)

[muggle not]

We must not forget, JPM and some of the others trying to make it in Nascar are not rookies to the sport of racing. They all are experienced drivers with many, many, many years experience. No, they haven't driven many races in stock cars but on the other hand there are drivers like Kyle Busch, Regan Smith, etc that are still in the early development phase of their careers and do not have all the total years of experience behind them.

[call_me_andrew]

That's nonsense.

(Boring quote here)

Fascinating. They're outsourcing R&D.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Juan wasn't the first F1/CART/IRL guy to come over. Robby Gordon did, but of course, Robby is sorta a unique guy. No Christian Fittipaldi did some time in F1, raced in CART, and then went to NASCAR when the CART rides dried up for him. The fact he failed is a bit of reason why everyone looks to Juan, but the fact is, Juan is just the first F1 guy in his prime to make the leap.

Now JV is coming over, and with Jacques, it is hard to say how he will adapt. His strenghes are often the same qualities that could be weaknesses at times, and in NASCAR we shall see. He isn't afraid to bang on people, and he wont back down, but his outspoken nature will sooner or later have him in trouble with someone I am sure.

The thing people forget about Jacques is he loves to compete. F1 just about killed him, but he liked the money, and he lived in Europe. I think though as he is in his late 30's, he looked at his options to keep racing, and NASCAR was just too big a challenge to turn down.

He was talking about this before JPM came over, but that idiot Pollock kept trying to keep JV in f1. Jacques will either be a spectacular bust and their will be radioactive waste from the explosion...or he will do quite well. Bill Davis isn't the team I would pick to join if I wanted the best cars...but lets face it, no one else would take the chance, so Davis it is....

[Lee Roy]

Fascinating. They're outsourcing R&D.

Try reading the article. The R&D isn't being outsourced, just the precision cutting of the material. The R&D is being done in house.

[Lee Roy]

So, if you want a nickname for Juan, it could be American Cross-Over, or Open-Wheel killer.

Juan didn't kill American Open-Wheel. It was already dead, that's why he went to NASCAR.

[wedge]

Christian Fittipaldi was a joke, IMHO. He got the best ride in F3000 in Europe and won that championship. Wasn't particularly impressive in F1 even though he was in lesser teams. Moved to CART, drove for one of the best teams being NHR and was next to useless. Other guys making a name for themselves would've done a better job than Christian had.

JPM and JV have proven themselves as talented drivers which is why they get the respect bestowed onto them coming into NASCAR.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Christian Fittipaldi was a joke, IMHO. He got the best ride in F3000 in Europe and won that championship. Wasn't particularly impressive in F1 even though he was in lesser teams. Moved to CART, drove for one of the best teams being NHR and was next to useless. Other guys making a name for themselves would've done a better job than Christian had.

JPM and JV have proven themselves as talented drivers which is why they get the respect bestowed onto them coming into NASCAR.

Christian was a joke, but it doesn't change the fact is that he is the first driver in the modern era to show up in NASCAR for a more or less full time gig with F1 experience. JPM wasn't the first, just he is the most accomplished so far. When JV shows up, you will now have an ex F1 champion, and a Indy 500 champ all in the same package. JV and JPM are both immense talents, with JPM more close to his prime than Jacques, but it is amazing that this trend is just starting to happen.

The only quibble I have with your point is that JV is getting respect bestowed to him. He is...and he isn't. Bill Davis has always been on the outside of the establishment, and hasn't always had great success. It isn't like JV is walking into Hendricks. JPM likely wouldn't have gotten a ride if not for his personal friendship with Ganassi. NASCAR team owners are very conservative and there is a lot of a "it wasn't invented here, therefore we dont' want it" attitude that is around in NASCAR.

Canadian drivers have knocked on plenty of doors over the years in NASCAR, and gotten very little in the respect department until they went down and worked in Mooresville as crew and mechanics first. I can imagine the attitude some of the owners would have had 10 years ago if someone from France or Germany came over and tried to get a full time ride, because Canadians are not really "Foreign" in the sense that the Euro's would be, and we have seen very limited participation, which is really sad, considering the amount of oval track racing we have up here....

I for one just think NASCAR is the toughest series in the world to break into if you are not from that background, and it is only in the last 5 years that new talents and new ideas are really becoming acceptable. I think it is a sign of the growth and maturity in the series and it is for their own good that they look at racing in global perspective. I wouldn't think we will see many foreign drivers, and maybe one or two Cup dates outside the US at the most, but a little variety will only be good for NASCAR.

[Robert Ryan]

Canadian drivers have knocked on plenty of doors over the years in NASCAR, and gotten very little in the respect department until they went down and worked in Mooresville as crew and mechanics first. I can imagine the attitude some of the owners would have had 10 years ago if someone from France or Germany came over and tried to get a full time ride,
Mark you just answered your own question in the TV Ratings thread why there was no Foreign drivers coming into NASCAR 15yrs ago.

[Quetch]

I just want to remind everyone that there were quite a few former open-wheel drivers in NASCAR already like Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Jason Leffler or JJ Yeley. They came from the ranks of the USAC because top level open-wheel racing in America was killed and they had nowhere to move up to. Of course, people coming from Formula One is quite different. I think having Montoya and Villeneuve in NASCAR will be a good thing.

[RaceFanStan]

I have to laugh when the IRL/CC/F1 fans try to claim Jeff Gordon as one of theirs. :laugh:
Most IRL/CC/F1 fans looked down on Silver Crown & didn't accept it as an equal to their faves. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Jeff Gordon DIDN'T race in IRL/CC/F1, people need to quit trying to act like he did. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[JasonD]

I have to laugh when the IRL/CC/F1 fans try to claim Jeff Gordon as one of theirs. :laugh:
Most IRL/CC/F1 fans looked down on Silver Crown & didn't accept it as an equal to their faves. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Jeff Gordon DIDN'T race in IRL/CC/F1, people need to quit trying to act like he did. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Well we dont have much else going for us these days so...


I havent noticed much talk about AJ Almendinger, oh wait, he would actually have to be there on Sundays to count right, :D .

[wedge]

Anyone know why JV likes to wear race suits 2 sizes too big?....

[JasonD]

Anyone know why JV likes to wear race suits 2 sizes too big?....

He likes the baggy look, maybe cause hes so small? Maybe he likes the gangsta look, or he suffers from chaffing.

He was thought of as unprofessional in F1 for that, and well for not shaving, dying his hair and speaking out against grooved tires, Schumacker amongst other things.

[harvick#1]

I havent noticed much talk about AJ Almendinger, oh wait, he would actually have to be there on Sundays to count right, :D .

:laugh:

thats a good one

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have to laugh when the IRL/CC/F1 fans try to claim Jeff Gordon as one of theirs. :laugh:
Most IRL/CC/F1 fans looked down on Silver Crown & didn't accept it as an equal to their faves. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Jeff Gordon DIDN'T race in IRL/CC/F1, people need to quit trying to act like he did. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif


I never claimed him Stan, believe me. Jeff went right from Sprints to NASCAR, but I also dispute the other great fiction that he was shunned by the IRL/CART establishment. Read Jeff's autobiography, and he pretty much says they looked at the IRL but never really got serious. He went to the Buck Baker school and knew stock cars were his destiny the minute he took to the track.

There is a lot of fiction about Gordon's aspirations after Sprint Cars, and that account dovetails with what was very apparent. That John Bickford wasn't going to put Jeff anywhere he didn't want to go, and if Jeff had decided he wanted to be in the IRL, they would have made the effort and got him there.

There is also another halftruth up there in Quetch's post in that Open Wheeled racing killed off the places for sprint and midget drivers. Wrong, they were irrelevent the day USAC decided to have Indy Cars with rear engines in the 60's and didn't allow for rear engined sprinters. As many people have found out, driving a sprint car is tough, but the motor skills and setup skills learned there translate much better to a NASCAR stock car than any of the Indy cars or Formula cars. Not better...just different. The fact there are no American drivers really coming up (young Rahal being the exception) in Champ Car and the IRL is more a fault of the failure of SCCA and other road racing venues, and the sponsoring of young Americans in road racing, not because of some awful conspiracy. The fact is, most American drivers, even from road racing backgrounds are going to NASCAR because right now, that is where the money is.....

[Breeze]

Anyone know why JV likes to wear race suits 2 sizes too big?....

He says he likes baggy for the added protection from fire. Don't know if it really offers extra protection and I'd sure hate to find out, but whatever floats his boat, ya know?

[MD24]

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ilxAwk0wwMZcs57eYMDCOV_6p5XA

[JasonD]

Carpentier is a nice guy, good to see him get a ride.

Hopefully he is more consistent when he has a long term contract in place as OW fans know his last few years he only stepped it up when he was renegotiating his contract.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I hope Carp makes the leap. A Good ole Canadian boy to race in Cup would be something, but i suspect he would do better learning a little in Busch if he goes full time next year.

[RaceFanStan]

I have to agree with the gist of this article .....
why don't some openwheel drivers :
look to move to Nascar BEFORE they are past their prime ???
come to Nascar BEFORE their options in openwheel racing dry up ???
why come to Nascar when it appears to be their last option ??? http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/opinion/08/29/open.wheel.dcaraviello/index.html

Nascar seems to be considered the retirement home for over-the-hill openwheel drivers ..... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Well, c'mon on in boys, we'll treat y'all right & educate you on the fine art of stockcar racin' ...
y'all be sure to pull them belts good & tight, the wall comes up fast & y'all will learn that first ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

[harvick#1]

I say more of these guys need to make the splash into Endurance racing like in ALMS or LMS in Europe. I think they would be better off in the Prototypes or GT categories as they should stick to Road Course racing instead of learning ovals

[Jonesi]

I say more of these guys need to make the splash into Endurance racing like in ALMS or LMS in Europe. I think they would be better off in the Prototypes or GT categories as they should stick to Road Course racing instead of learning ovals

The big money's not in endurance racing. They can always go there if they want to, since the competitive drivers can still do well in endurance racing well into their 50s. (EFR, Ickx, Redman, Hobbs, etc.)

[Robert Ryan]

why don't some openwheel drivers :
look to move to Nascar BEFORE they are past their prime ???
come to Nascar BEFORE their options in openwheel racing dry up
A case of why? At least in NASCAR they can be potentially competitive in their 30's till they reach 50. As well as branch out into the Grand Am series as well.
At this stage a Win Win situation for them and NASCAR.

[airshifter]

I have to agree with the gist of this article .....
why don't some openwheel drivers :
look to move to Nascar BEFORE they are past their prime ???
come to Nascar BEFORE their options in openwheel racing dry up ???
why come to Nascar when it appears to be their last option ??? http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/opinion/08/29/open.wheel.dcaraviello/index.html

Nascar seems to be considered the retirement home for over-the-hill openwheel drivers ..... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Well, c'mon on in boys, we'll treat y'all right & educate you on the fine art of stockcar racin' ...
y'all be sure to pull them belts good & tight, the wall comes up fast & y'all will learn that first ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif


Having just returned from RIR for the races over the weekend, I can assure you that a number of drivers passed during the brief first green flag session don't think Montoya is past his prime. He moved forward five positions during that brief period. :D

[wbcobrar]

Dario F. is hardly past his prime . The cork is still in the champagne for his championship , and the ink is dry on his NASCAR contract . And A.J. Almondinger almost took the championship from the F1 bound Bourdou last year and look where he is . These gyes gave up winning top caliber rides in open wheel to be field fillers in Cup .

[JasonD]

Ummm if guys can race in NASCAR into their 50's, cant it be a retirement league?

Besides whats the problem with the OW guys coming over, shouldnt all the NASCAR faithful be proud that their series is attracting F1 talent?

And whats the crap about OW guys sticking to road courses? Duh, American OW has a long long history on ovals. JV experience on ovals, yup, JPM on ovals, yup, robby gordon on ovals, yup, dario franchittio on ovals, yup.

Be happy thats a great crop of talent is looking at and coming to NASCAR, considering how many people look at it as "Hill Billy Racin".

[Lee Roy]

Ummm if guys can race in NASCAR into their 50's, cant it be a retirement league?

There's a lot more incentive to race for a long time in NASCAR since the drivers actually get paid to drive . . . . instead of having to pay the team for the honor of driving their car like they do in American Open Wheel Racing. You can't continue to drive for years in America Open Wheel Racing when you continue to have to pay the team. After a while, the drivers wise up.

When American Open Wheel racing was actually a viable racing series Mario Andretti won a CART race at the age of 53. The oldest NASCAR driver to ever win a race was Harry Gant at the age of 52.


. . . . . considering how many people look at it as "Hill Billy Racin".

and considering how many fans of American Open Wheel Racing are drool-on-your-shirt stupid.

[Robert Ryan]

When American Open Wheel racing was actually a viable racing series Mario Andretti won a CART race at the age of 53. The oldest NASCAR driver to ever win a race was Harry Gant at the age of 52.
The exception to the rule. As CART(prior to that USAC) became more competitive the ages started tumbling down

[wedge]

JV is the quickest Toyota in his first Cup test drive in a COT!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62258

[Lee Roy]

Go JV!!!!!!!!!

[JasonD]

There's a lot more incentive to race for a long time in NASCAR since the drivers actually get paid to drive . . . . instead of having to pay the team for the honor of driving their car like they do in American Open Wheel Racing. You can't continue to drive for years in America Open Wheel Racing when you continue to have to pay the team. After a while, the drivers wise up.

Granted A LOT of drivers are ride buyers, but its their sponsor flipping the bill and they are getting paid thought be it small by the sponsor.

Now dont forget we're looking at OW from both sides of the ocean. Last I checked JPM was getting PAID, JV was getting PAID(took at HUGE paycut when he joined sauber though), Dario is getting PAID, PT is getting PAID.




and considering how many fans of American Open Wheel Racing are drool-on-your-shirt stupid.

Well thats just not nice. I think you will agree that NASCAR has a bad rap but considering some of the crap SOME fans pull it gives a real black eye to the series. When was the last time you saw OW fans pelting a winning driver with beer cans? Yes there was the 2005 US GP with people throwing stuff on the track, which was a disgrace, and Im not saying you support that kind of attitude, but in the eyes of the world how does that make NASCAR look? Pretty bad is the only answer.

Im a fan of OW first and NASCAR second, but I am very excited to see some of my favourite drivers going to NASCAR.

With NASCAR theres a race almost every week, full fields, no canceled events, and actual passing. Its good stuff.

[Lee Roy]

When was the last time you saw OW fans pelting a winning driver with beer cans? Yes there was the 2005 US GP with people throwing stuff on the track, which was a disgrace, . . . .

Saw it first hand. I was there.

Why don't you just leave the "Hill-billy" **** over on the OW forums. We don't need it around here.

[JasonD]

Saw it first hand. I was there.

Why don't you just leave the "Hill-billy" **** over on the OW forums. We don't need it around here.

Kinda like how we dont need "drool-on-your-shirt stupid" comments either? :rolleyes:

Back on topic though, how about JV being the #1 Toyota yesterday? I was a little surprised, I thought it might take him more time. But testing is quite different than racing.

[Roamy]

JV Rawks - 3 fast today - eyes are opening

[wbcobrar]

I was in the crowd cheering for JV in 1995 when he won at Road America ( after his Indy 500 victory ) . Its great to have him back in a series where driver tallent is importent .

[wedge]

Well thats just not nice. I think you will agree that NASCAR has a bad rap but considering some of the crap SOME fans pull it gives a real black eye to the series. When was the last time you saw OW fans pelting a winning driver with beer cans? Yes there was the 2005 US GP with people throwing stuff on the track, which was a disgrace, and Im not saying you support that kind of attitude, but in the eyes of the world how does that make NASCAR look? Pretty bad is the only answer.

Its easy to sympathise with the fans but I certainly wouldn't advocate throwing crap onto a car just because its a #24 Dupont Chevy!

Ooooohh... I don't know....

it's tough to answer!

I remember one of the Rio CART races ended under yellow and the Brazillian fans booed!

I remember a Pepsi 400 (I know there were others but Daytona was memorable for some reason) there were boos and beer cans and crap thrown at the end of the race because the race ended under yellow. So what did NASCAR do next? They came up with the green/white/chequer!

In F1 when Barrichello moved over to let Schumacher through to win in Austria in 2001/2002, there were boos at the end of the race.

Seriously, I wish F1 fans threw rubbish and crap on to race tracks in the late 1990s/early 2000s for the parades we had to put up with!

Sometimes direct action works, sometimes it doesn't.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

[Jonesi]

Maybe we can get this thread back on track with a review of where things are now.

36->27 Jacques Villeneuve (replacing Mayfield) Bill Davis Toyota
(announced, but no sponsor yet 90%?)

06? Sam Hornish Jr (3rd Penske South) Mobil1? Dodge
(Sam said it was 50/50 a few weeks ago, seems like it's at least 80% now. No sponsor yet, but that's never been a big problem for Roger Penske.)

40 Dario Franchitti (replacing Stremme) Ganassi/Sabates Canadian Club? Dodge
(Rumored and NOT denied, sponsor may come with, +70%) Was also in discussion on the 4th RCR car.

10->? Patrick Carpentier (replacing Riggs or 4th GEM) Gillett Evernham Dodge
(Rumored sponsors could be Valvoline or Dodge Dealers/UAW moving over from Kasey Kahne's car. 60%)

Did I miss any?

BTW other ROY rookies:
Regan Smith in DEI #01 (If he doesn't start any more Cup races after this weekend.)

[JasonD]

10->? Patrick Carpentier (replacing Riggs or 4th GEM) Gillett Evernham Dodge
(Rumored sponsors could be Valvoline or Dodge Dealers/UAW moving over from Kasey Kahne's car. 60%)


Anyone know if Carp has a sponsorship deal with Mechachrome people still?

[tassiedevilAB]

This guy is one savvy cookie, he not only has wins, but also is servicing 5 teams, but how does he stop other teams from internal sabatage?

This is a great business he has got , but his has to make sure there are no leaks!

[wedge]

JV was third fastest in drafting session yesterday!

[airshifter]

Maybe we can get this thread back on track with a review of where things are now.


10->? Patrick Carpentier (replacing Riggs or 4th GEM) Gillett Evernham Dodge
(Rumored sponsors could be Valvoline or Dodge Dealers/UAW moving over from Kasey Kahne's car. 60%)



I didn't know about the possible sponsors on him. Should be interesting to watch. The company my wife works for has a hand in sponsoring Kahnes car now. Actually they are a broker to the company, but a sponsor of some sort.

[Lee Roy]

JV was third fastest in drafting session yesterday!

Go JV!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alexamateo]

Alonso & Hamilton to NASCAR, you heard it here first!!!



















Oh Wait!!




















Nevermind. :D ;)

[harvick#1]

If Alonso came, I think Nascar would end

[Jonesi]

If Alonso came, I think Nascar would end

Why? As F1 champions go, he seems like a nice guy.

[JasonD]

He can be a nice guy, a little cocky now, but hey you would be too if you beat Michael Schumacker.

Isnt JV going to be in a truck this weekend or is it next weekend?

[harvick#1]

Why? As F1 champions go, he seems like a nice guy.

he's got an even worse ego than Monty

[RaceFanStan]

a majority of openwheel drivers are so full of themselves that they think driving stockcars will be easy for them.
It will be quite pleasing for me to watch them FAIL miserably. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/evil.gif

[JasonD]

a majority of openwheel drivers are so full of themselves that they think driving stockcars will be easy for them.

Got any quotes to back that statement up?

I dont think they look at it as easy. If anything them staying right where they are would be easy. Driving at 150mph with 42 other guys, drafting, less downforce, near weekly races, day-to-night racing, bumping, drafting. Easy I dont think they would say.

Competitive or a challenge is what they would say.



It will be quite pleasing for me to watch them FAIL miserably. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/evil.gif


And what if stockcars are easy for them, what if they excel, will that speak to the easiness of driving the car or the skill of the driver.

[Robert Ryan]

Got any quotes to back that statement up?
He just makes it up as he goes..facts ruin his arguement.

It will be quite pleasing for me to watch them FAIL miserably
Well that will be a very very long wait

[BenRoethig]

JV is the quickest Toyota in his first Cup test drive in a COT!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62258

JV is a great driver, but draft speed don't mean a whole lot.

[muggle not]

All, or most all, that have/are coming over to Nascar were very good "in their type of racing". However, it is a different story for them racing in Nascar. Some may make it some will not. I expect to see them running in 20th or below.

[Jonesi]

JV is a great driver, but draft speed don't mean a whole lot.

It means he was comfortable running in the draft, a necessary skill set for nascar at some tracks. But then in a big test like that, everybody's your friend, come race time......

[Robert Ryan]

All, or most all, that have/are coming over to Nascar were very good "in their type of racing". However, it is a different story for them racing in Nascar. Some may make it some will not. I expect to see them running in 20th or below.

It will take a while before he gets the hang of racing in a draft

[wedge]

Dario looks set for NASCAR with Ganassi.

He's going to be testing one of Chip's cars for upcoming ARCA race at Talladega.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/nextel/nascar/40322/

[RaceFanStan]

Former IRL Champion & Indianapolis 500 Winner Buddy Lazier is going Craftsman Truck Series racing. :D
Buddy Lazier will drive the Billy Ballew Motorsports #15 Chevrolet truck @ Las Vegas this coming Saturday.
The Billy Ballew Motorsports #15 Chevrolet truck is 22nd in CTS Owner's Points ...
that means that the #15 truck is guaranteed to start the race, so Buddy Lazier WILL race !

Billy Ballew Motorsports builds a good competitive truck, hopefully Buddy Lazier will get a good finish. :D :up:

[RaceFanStan]

Of course Jacques Villeneuve will be in the truck race against Buddy Lazier.
Jacques Villeneuve will be in the Bill Davis Racing #27 Toyota.
The BDR #27 truck will use the #22 Owner's Points which is 19th & is also guaranteed to start. :D

[Alexamateo]

Scott Speed enters ARCA race at Talladega :D

http://www.arcaracing.com/content/view/5711/2/

[Robert Ryan]

Jacques surprised with his 7th place qualifying start, considering rookie and the final practice sessions were cancelled. He underestimated the start(common rookie mistake) and slid back to about 16th. He then had someone run into him and the Pickup refused to handle properly after that, eventually finishing 21st in his first NASCAR start.
A.A. Allemendinger looked good in the Busch race running 7th , till a penalty infraction made him lose a lap.

[ZzZzZz]

If you listen to Jacques, it's clear his level of understanding, both technically and strategically, of what it will take to succeed in NASCAR is miles ahead of the other OW drivers. And he's clearly on the right team. Some people will be shocked...

[muggle not]

By Robert Ryan:
Jacques surprised with his 7th place qualifying start, considering rookie and the final practice sessions were cancelled. He underestimated the start(common rookie mistake) and slid back to about 16th. He then had someone run into him and the Pickup refused to handle properly after that, eventually finishing 21st in his first NASCAR start.
A.A. Allemendinger looked good in the Busch race running 7th , till a penalty infraction made him lose a lap.

You must mean when Brian Scott backed into him while they were racing. :)

OK, what happened was Brian scott who was in front of JV lost a little control and "wiggled" whcih caused him to slow down. JV did not react fast enough and ran into the back of Brian putting him into the wall. JV probably learned some from the incident and will be more heads up next time.

[rabf1]

It really is unbelievable. A former WDC racing a pickup truck. If Nascar ends up with Villeneuve, Franchiti, Hornish, Carpentier and Montoya next year, I will start watching some more Nascar races.

[BenRoethig]

It really is unbelievable. A former WDC racing a pickup truck. If Nascar ends up with Villeneuve, Franchiti, Hornish, Carpentier and Montoya next year, I will start watching some more Nascar races.

And quite possibly one of the last true WDCs too. When the cars got more expensive than F-16s, most of the driving got transferred to circuit boards. I'm not surprised though, from hearing the guy, he's a racer and a smart one at that.

[muggle not]

It really is unbelievable. A former WDC racing a pickup truck. If Nascar ends up with Villeneuve, Franchiti, Hornish, Carpentier and Montoya next year, I will start watching some more Nascar races.
There is little question that they will attempt to race in Nascar. The question is whether they can adapt to the heavier cars and compete with the existing great talent in Cup racing.

[Robert Ryan]

There is little question that they will attempt to race in Nascar. The question is whether they can adapt to the heavier cars and compete with the existing great talent in Cup racing
Heavy cars are not the issue..the oval cars actually feel "light" to drive. It is they way they act in a draft that can be hard for newbies.

[xtlm]

Got any quotes to back that statement up?


I only know of one...

Schumacher said:

"Personally I wouldn't do it...what do you do in NASCAR? What is exciting there? I can't see that, running around on ovals.

I don't know how heavy the cars are, but they are heavy, very low developed cars compared to Formula 1. I don't see the challenge."

[Lee Roy]

I only know of one...

Schumacher said:

"Personally I wouldn't do it...what do you do in NASCAR? What is exciting there? I can't see that, running around on ovals.

I don't know how heavy the cars are, but they are heavy, very low developed cars compared to Formula 1. I don't see the challenge."

Apparently Villeneuve and Montoya do. But what would they know.

[Robert Ryan]

I don't know how heavy the cars are, but they are heavy, very low developed cars compared to Formula 1. I don't see the challenge."
Each to their own, I guess

[RaceFanStan]

To the openwheel stars that feel NASCAR isn't for them ...
they probably wouldn't do well IF they tried NASCAR anyway ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

:rotflmao:

[JasonD]

I only know of one...

Schumacher said:

"Personally I wouldn't do it...what do you do in NASCAR? What is exciting there? I can't see that, running around on ovals.

I don't know how heavy the cars are, but they are heavy, very low developed cars compared to Formula 1. I don't see the challenge."

ummm, ya, lets listen to what schusucker has to say. :rolleyes:

Hes right though, the cars are heavy and they are underdeveloped compared to F1, but well, at least you actually have to shift and rely on what your butt is telling you. F1 cars COULD change gears from the pits and have enough telematry feedback to make NASA jealous.

Dont base what this clown says as how all OW drivers feel about NASCAR.


As for JV finishing in 21, I think thats pretty respectable for his first outing, especially since he actually finished the race!

[Mark in Oshawa]

JV did just fine for a guy at his first crack at CTS. He made a few mistakes, but JV never made the same mistakes twice in OW racing, so I don't think he is about to start now. He put the car 7th on the grid.....so we know he can get one fast lap in. All he has to do is learn the feel and how to tell the Crew Chief how to make the car better as the race goes on. That is something you get from a lot of time in the car, so he will learn it.

As for Schuy's comment, he is just ticked no NASCAR owner is kissing his tush to get him to try a NASCAR. He is a petulant little twerp with a lot of talent but no PR or social skills. Phoney as a 3 dollar bill and the reason he said what he said is because he is dismissive of the whole concept of racing on ovals. This attitude is fine, as Stan says, he likely wouldn't enjoy it because in NASCAR, you are expected to get results or at least look good trying. Schuy is used to playing f1 politics and sandbagging any teammate who might get attention. That wont fly over here...and he knows it.

[xtlm]

Dont base what this clown says as how all OW drivers feel about NASCAR.


Oh I know, which is why I said "I only know of one"

[Sparky1329]

I thought JV did pretty well considering he had never even sat in a CTS truck before. It was pretty cool.

[mercury8]

Maybe another open wheeler pilot heading to Nascar down the track a little.Champ Car driver Will Power is said to be getting groomed for Nascar? Anyone heard this?

[Robert Ryan]

Maybe another open wheeler pilot heading to Nascar down the track a little.Champ Car driver Will Power is said to be getting groomed for Nascar? Anyone heard this?
I did a post in the Champcar section about it.

[Robert Ryan]

As for Schuy's comment, he is just ticked no NASCAR owner is kissing his tush to get him to try a NASCAR. He is a petulant little twerp with a lot of talent but no PR or social skills. Phoney as a
No..far from it. Not many NASCAR Drivers go back to their roots to race up and comers. Tony Stewart does ,so does Michael Schumacher, who races up and coming kart drivers regularly. As well Michael supports and has given 30 million dollars of his own money to Children's charities. He is not interested in NASCAR, neither are other European drivers, oval racing to them and the European public at large is a non-event.

[mercury8]

I did a post in the Champcar section about it.
Thanks Mate will have a squizz. ;)

[Robert Ryan]

I don't know how heavy the cars are, but they are heavy, very low developed cars compared to Formula 1. I don't see the challenge
Then he does this for "relaxation" !!!!!!
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a186/RobRyan7/MichaelSchumacher.jpg

[Lee Roy]

I thought JV did pretty well considering he had never even sat in a CTS truck before. It was pretty cool.

He was doing pretty good until his Truck got damaged in that incident. Much better than Lazier. He was awful.

[Robert Ryan]

He was doing pretty good until his Truck got damaged in that incident. Much better than Lazier. He was awful.
Agreed. From his comments Lazier seems to have no idea..another Christian Fittipaldi.

[DanicaFan]

My comment is late but no matter what vehicle Dario Franchitti drives, he will do well. He is an excellent driver!

[wedge]

As for Schuy's comment, he is just ticked no NASCAR owner is kissing his tush to get him to try a NASCAR. He is a petulant little twerp with a lot of talent but no PR or social skills. Phoney as a 3 dollar bill and the reason he said what he said is because he is dismissive of the whole concept of racing on ovals. This attitude is fine, as Stan says, he likely wouldn't enjoy it because in NASCAR, you are expected to get results or at least look good trying. Schuy is used to playing f1 politics and sandbagging any teammate who might get attention. That wont fly over here...and he knows it.

Didn't Ray Evernham offer Schumi an open invitation to test drive last year?

[Lee Roy]

I would imagine that any NASCAR team that Michael Schumacher approached would bend over backwards to give him whatever he wanted.

[RaceFanStan]

Michael Schumacher is almost 40 & is too old to be considered a "young gun" ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
maybe they could find room for him in the Craftsman Truck Series ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/evil.gif
The hard chargers in the Truck Series would love to "teach" Michael Schumacher ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[muggle not]

I would imagine that any NASCAR team that Michael Schumacher approached would bend over backwards to give him whatever he wanted.
I disagree, I don't believe there would be any teams that would want to invest in him for Cup. Perhaps as RFS stated, for the Truck Series.

[Lee Roy]

Michael Shumacher is a 7 time world champion and owner of nearly every important record conceivable in the pinacle of motorsports.

Any NASCAR organization he contacted would have a NEXTEL Cup car available for him at his request. With his participation would follow more than sufficient sponsorship for the effort and a worldwide following.

Of course, the second paragraph is just my opinion., but it is colored by the facts in the first paragraph.

[Erki]

I remember some years ago he was vacationing in the US, I think he even went to some motorsport event and virtually no-one knew who he was.

I guess same would apply to Dale Jr to if he went to Europe.

You might be right about global sponsors though. Hard to say as it has never happened and probably never will. Gotta wait for the next 7 time champ. :)

[Lee Roy]

I remember some years ago he was vacationing in the US, I think he even went to some motorsport event and virtually no-one knew who he was.

He didn't go to a motorsport event. He went to one of those Walter Mitty type driving experiences at Texas Motor Speedway. (Richard Petty Driving Experience or something like that.) The people in line didn't recognize him. Hey, if you were standing in line for something like that, would you ever dream in a thousand years that Michael Schumacher would be in line with you? :D

He stood in line for a while but got tired and moved on. (He was on a motorcycle trip.) If he went to a Cup race, you can rest assured that they'd know who he was in the garage.

[rabf1]

Europeans watch cricket and soccer. Nuff said.

[Lee Roy]

Europeans watch cricket and soccer. Nuff said.

What's wrong with that?

And I believe it's just the English in Europe that like Cricket.

[JasonD]

Schumacker often vacations in the states since hes almost never recognized.

Now as for him in NASCAR, I have no doubt that almost any team would jump at the chance to test him and get him to race a season or even a handful of races. I say almost any team because I doubt Rousch would do it considering his attitude towards non-North American car manufactures.

MS has always said he thinks ovals are far to dangerous and the closest he would ever get is the road course at Indy.

Can you imagine the green flag swerve MS would do? The "big one" would happen on the first lap at Talladega.

[Robert Ryan]

Schumacker often vacations in the states since hes almost never recognized.
Does rock climbing and rides a motorcyle around various states.

MS has always said he thinks ovals are far to dangerous and the closest he would ever get is the road course at Indy.
Rock Climbing isnt!!!!

[Erki]

Rock Climbing isnt!!!!

Of course it isn't if you have safety harnesses. :)

[MD24]

FRANCHITTI DEAL CLOSE

Team owner Chip Ganassi said he is hopeful to have a contract with reigning Indianapolis 500 winner Dario Franchitti signed this week.
Franchitti, who remains under contract with Andretti Green Racing in the IndyCar Series, is joining Ganassi's NASCAR Cup team for the 2008 season.
The plan has been for Franchitti to compete in the ARCA race Friday at Talladega Superspeedway. But Franchitti is scheduled to run the American LeMans Series event at Road Atlanta on Saturday for AGR with teammates Bryan Herta and Tony Kanaan.
"Hopefully it will be done this week and hopefully he'll be in Talladega -- hopefully," Ganassi said Sunday before the Cup race at Kansas Speedway. "I'm working hard on it. I've been working on it every single day. He likes to race. He wants to be here."

[Jonesi]

On NascarNow Scott Speed just announced he will be driving a Redbull sponsored Toyota in ARCA all next year.

[e2mtt]

Update on the open-wheelers in the ARCA race... Franchitti finished 17, after starting from the back (engine change) and running as high as 8th.

However, Scott Speed qualified 7th, ran as high as 3rd, never dropped out of the top 15, and finished a very respectable 7th.

[RaceFanStan]

On lap 60 (of 94) in the Craftsman Truck Series race @ Talladega today ...
Jacques Villeneuve crashed & took-out 2 other trucks with him ...
Jacques Villeneuve was a DNF & was credited with 30th (of 36 entrants)

I guess being a previous openwheel champion doesn't give you a free pass on the track ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

[call_me_andrew]

I guess being a previous openwheel champion doesn't give you a free pass on the track ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

No, but being a lap down does.

[RaceFanStan]

Only IF you are the "Lucky Dawg" ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[Mark in Oshawa]

JV made up for his wrecking in the CTS event. He wisely went to the back to not mess up anyone's race, and slowly was working forward and staying out of trouble. At one point he had trouble with the radio and was blackflagged. Then he had a little loose adventure and scraped the wall, but managed to keep going, and at the very end, made sure he stayed out of the way. He was all about learning, and he learned a lot and still got a 21st. Lots of good drivers had cars turn hard right or hard left for no reason (Labonte still doesn't know why the 43 got away from him, and he is a VERY good driver, the COT has its quirks at this speed I guess) and get into wrecks, yet JV stayed clean and didn't rile anyone up. Third NASCAR event in, he is learning. This year is all bout figureing out what this is all about, and BDR should be running him in ARCA, Busch and CTS if they can swing it. He needs the seat time, but in the end, he will do just fine.....

[muggle not]

Actually, I doubt that JV will ever be competitive enough to make the Chase. He will always be somewhere between 15 and 25 in the points in his Nascar career. He is not a young gun and his best days are behind him. Of course though his fans will claim that he is learning and "wait until next year". :)

[Mark in Oshawa]

Actually, I doubt that JV will ever be competitive enough to make the Chase. He will always be somewhere between 15 and 25 in the points in his Nascar career. He is not a young gun and his best days are behind him. Of course though his fans will claim that he is learning and "wait until next year". :)

Muggle, no...but until he is not racing a vehicle with rookie stripes on it, cut the guy some slack. Also, in NASCAR, old guys win more often than any other form of racing, and Jacques is just a few years older than Jeffy Gordon, so I would hardly say his best days are that far in the rear view mirror.

As for his future success, the man will be fighting to get near the chase likely. Unlike some JV fans, I am under no illusions to what he may or may not do. I think like most good drivers who show up in NASCAR in mid career, they have times where they do well, but for the most part, it will be hit and miss. NASCAR has too much depth and is too unique for a guy in mid-career from another series to just jump in and challenge for a championship. He may win a race, he may run up front on occasion, but without a top team and good schooling, he will likely not see the Chase. JPM I think has done better than people expected, but again, he is in the 10 to 20 area in the points most of the time....and I think that is JV's fate as well.

[Breeze]

Actually, I doubt that JV will ever be competitive enough to make the Chase........... He is not a young gun and his best days are behind him. Of course though his fans will claim that he is learning and "wait until next year". :)

Odds on favorite to will the title this season would have to be Jeff Gordon. Jeff is 4 months younger than Jacques. Age tells us nothing other than ones ages.

Best days are behind him? So far, yes. To suggest that he has no future opportunities for success would have to be nothing more than your humble opinion.

I am a JV fan and yes, I have no doubt he is as capable of winning a championship as any driver in the series and much more capable than most. And his age has nothing to do with it.

I'm also a fan of Tony Stewart. He's 1 month younger than JV. He's also more than capable of winning another title in spite of his age. But I'd wager that once JV gets a handle on the whole deal, he'll be a better bet if his team is up to it. JV is a smarter and less tempermental racer than Tony, imho.

Dale E Sr. won at 43yo
Dale J won at 43yo
DW won at 38yo
Cale Yarborough won at 38yo
Richard Petty won at 42yo

[Sparky1329]

Harry Gant was winning races at age 54 but he was racing NASCAR stock cars from the age of 33.

In this situation stock car experience has more impact than age. Jeff has been racing NASCAR stock cars since he was 18 and Tony since he was 25. That's where the major difference lies. They have also been in premier rides. BDR is not even close to premier.

I'm sure JV will eventually figure it out. Whether he will win races or not is another story.

[SOD]

Gordon was racing since he was 5. by the time he wonned a championship he has 19 years of racing behind him :eek:

[RaceFanStan]

Hmmmmmmmmmm, if memory serves many contenders had engine failure or crashed @ Talladega ...
any driver that finished the race @ Talladega managed to survive through the carnage ...
it didn't neccessarily take talent, it took a good drafting partner & some good luck to make it to the finish ...
the drivers can go back to "real" racing @ Charlotte. :D :up:

[Breeze]

...........................They have also been in premier rides. BDR is not even close to premier.

I'm sure JV will eventually figure it out. Whether he will win races or not is another story.

True enough about BDR the last few years. However, the CoT seems to be an equalizer and the 'yoda engine appears to be making more power, much as it pains me to say it. And Slugger Labbe can cheat with the best of them!! :p :

Next year will be mostly learning curve for JV, just as it has been for Montoya and the other rookies in the series. What he may be able to do that hasn't been talked about here is bring big money sponsorship to BDR. Enough to buy the best engineering and crew, maybe??

[call_me_andrew]

It's easy to win races at an old age when everyone you're racing against is old.

The Toyotas were only fast in qualifying because they didn't qualify on race setups like the top 35 teams did. It's not a matter of horsepower. They may have a few (and I mean few as in "insignificant") more horsepower, but they seem to lack torque.

[muggle not]

Muggle, no...but until he is not racing a vehicle with rookie stripes on it, cut the guy some slack. Also, in NASCAR, old guys win more often than any other form of racing, and Jacques is just a few years older than Jeffy Gordon, so I would hardly say his best days are that far in the rear view mirror.

As for his future success, the man will be fighting to get near the chase likely. Unlike some JV fans, I am under no illusions to what he may or may not do. I think like most good drivers who show up in NASCAR in mid career, they have times where they do well, but for the most part, it will be hit and miss. NASCAR has too much depth and is too unique for a guy in mid-career from another series to just jump in and challenge for a championship. He may win a race, he may run up front on occasion, but without a top team and good schooling, he will likely not see the Chase. JPM I think has done better than people expected, but again, he is in the 10 to 20 area in the points most of the time....and I think that is JV's fate as well.
Uh, I wonder where the 10 came from, seems to me he has been closer to the 20 most if not all of the time. :)

[RaceFanStan]

Jeff Gordon used a good stradegy @Talladega .....
race where Villeneuve WASN'T & at the end of the race that was up front ! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[JasonD]

Not matter what you guys would find some way to critize JV.

Like it or not hes here, and isnt leaving anytime soon. If he does good you will all say he was lucky and if he crashes you will all be, see he cant drive.

JV has real talent, much like a lot of other guys in NASCAR. He'll have a tough time winning since the field is so deep with talent.

JV does have an arrogance about him, but maybe its because hes that damn good and well if any of you had a speck of his talent, (or even if I did), we would be taking our shot at it.

[Lee Roy]

It's easy to win races at an old age when everyone you're racing against is old.


Drivers used to have longer careers in open-wheel racing . . . . that is, when driving in open-wheel could be considered a "career". Mario Andretti won at age 53. The oldest to ever win in NASCAR was Harry Gant at 52.

[Sparky1329]

True enough about BDR the last few years. However, the CoT seems to be an equalizer and the 'yoda engine appears to be making more power, much as it pains me to say it. And Slugger Labbe can cheat with the best of them!! :p :

Next year will be mostly learning curve for JV, just as it has been for Montoya and the other rookies in the series. What he may be able to do that hasn't been talked about here is bring big money sponsorship to BDR. Enough to buy the best engineering and crew, maybe??

And therein lies the problem. Without competitive equipment JV's results might not be what they could've been in premier stuff. If the results aren't there neither will the sponsors be there. It's the Catch 22 that the middle-of-the-road teams all face.

[muggle not]

And therein lies the problem. Without competitive equipment JV's results might not be what they could've been in premier stuff. If the results aren't there neither will the sponsors be there. It's the Catch 22 that the middle-of-the-road teams all face.
Ain't that the truth. They pay for air time. Number of "looks".

[Sparky1329]

Ain't that the truth. They pay for air time. Number of "looks".

On a positive note....wrecked cars get a lot of TV time too. ;)

[Robert Ryan]

Jeff Gordon used a good stradegy @Talladega .....
race where Villeneuve WASN'T & at the end of the race that was up front !
It took Jeff Gordon 3 yrs in Cup to do that. It was JV's FIRST race in Cup

[Robert Ryan]

Drivers used to have longer careers in open-wheel racing . . . . that is, when driving in open-wheel could be considered a "career". Mario Andretti won at age 53. The oldest to ever win in NASCAR was Harry Gant at 52.

Mario's record will not be broken. Even in NASCAR the "Oldest" drivers are getting younger and younger as the series gets more competitive.

[RaceFanStan]

(but I feel it does bear repeating it here)

Sam Hornish Jr, Jacques Villeneuve, Dario Franchitti & Patrick Carpentier have the same problem.

LACK OF EXPERIENCE IN DRIVING A STOCKCAR !!!

(Driving a stockcar isn't learned overnight, it definately takes seat-time ...
that is why drivers should start in a lower series to learn FIRST !)

[Erki]

I think Montoya has the same problem too. ;)

[Vez]

Found this article;
http://www.scenedaily.com/stories/2007/10/29/scene_daily141.html

Sounds interesting

[Robert Ryan]

Interesting comment by David Reutimann about Franchitti after the "Caution 250"

The guy is good," Reutimann said of Franchitti. "He's smooth. This place is not an easy racetrack.

"For a guy's second race, it was pretty amazing, pretty impressive. I'm not sure what he's got in store for us. He's going to do nothing but get better, and he's already good."

[RaceFanStan]

Yeah, they need to hype Franchitti ...
I mean he finished 32nd, 3 laps down to the winner ...
the other 31 guys that finished AHEAD of Franchitti weren't sh*t ...
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/laff/fdl.gif
So, let's all sing the Phony Praise Franchitti song together ...

all you sheep out there, listen up now, you are about to be indoctrinated ...


the Busch Series points leader crashed but finished 25th ...
plus there were 28 cars on the lead lap but the praise goes to Franchitti ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Robert Ryan]

He should do very well in NASCAR Cup, unfortunately that cannot be said , for the bulk of the rookies coming up through the traditional rungs in NASCAR. The "Crashfest 250" was a good showcase of their LACK of talent. They were woeful. No wonder NASCAR teams are looking to open wheelers to fill the vacancies.

[Lee Roy]

Yeah, they need to hype Franchitti ...
I mean he finished 32nd, 3 laps down to the winner ...
the other 31 guys that finished AHEAD of Franchitti weren't sh*t ...
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/laff/fdl.gif
So, let's all sing the Phony Praise Franchitti song together ...

all you sheep out there, listen up now, you are about to be indoctrinated ...


the Busch Series points leader crashed but finished 25th ...
plus there were 28 cars on the lead lap but the praise goes to Franchitti ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Good post.

[Robert Ryan]

Found this article;
http://www.scenedaily.com/stories/20..._daily141.html
Not a great fan of Hornish..but future openwheel crossovers should run at least one or two different NASCAR series for a while before they go into Cup, to speed up their learning process, it does have to be for a lengthy period.. Outside of Tracy and Hornish most are where I thought they would be at this stage. Montoya looks like taking ROTY in Cup, so he has achieved his initial benchmark.

[Alexamateo]

Yeah, they need to hype Franchitti ...
I mean he finished 32nd, 3 laps down to the winner ...
the other 31 guys that finished AHEAD of Franchitti weren't sh*t ...
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/laff/fdl.gif
So, let's all sing the Phony Praise Franchitti song together ...

all you sheep out there, listen up now, you are about to be indoctrinated ...


the Busch Series points leader crashed but finished 25th ...
plus there were 28 cars on the lead lap but the praise goes to Franchitti ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Come on Stan, Who are they going to hype, Bobby East? I mean I know who Bobby East is because I follow sprints and his dad's a well-known car builder, but it's not really news. If Dario comes in and he attracts attention to the series, then the series is better off for it.

Face it, it's news, and it attracts new fans when a driver from a foreign country, who is married to a famous movie actress, who has won the Indy 500 and an IRL championship, and lost a CART Championship on a tie-breaker to Juan Pablo Montoya comes and races in your series.

This is going to vault Nascar to worldwide popularity much like Mansell did when he came to CART in 1993. (Just tell Bruton not to get any ideas about taking his tracks and splitting the series up :p : )

Now, to give my impressions, because I was actually at the track both days for Friday practice and the race itself:

Franchitti is smooth, up until he had his brake problems, He and Reutimann had the cleanest cars out there. He ran fast and was able to pass cars. He has had brake problems, and that is where his inexperience shows, he has to learn to manage a heavier car over the course of a race so that he has brakes at the end. And I'll tell you, he must have been really abusing the brakes to wear them out that fast with all the cautions in that race, which is why there were 28 cars on the lead lap. (Heck, Ron Young got 3 or four consecutive free passes to get on the lead lap after he had some crash damage) They never ran more than 20 laps of green racing without a caution and that was early in the race. It wasn't so bad in person, but I imagine on TV it was brutal to watch.

Anyway, I'm glad Reutimann won, because he dominated and deserved it, I thought Ambrose did really good too. Franchitti did alright for his first time, too.

Anyway, why should we be surprised when Aussie's come to this board and say "Look what Ambrose did this weekend" We should be happy that Indy/Champ/F1 fans who would have not otherwise given Nascar a second look are coming here to cheer for their drivers and learn about this great branch of Motorsports.

What it all means is that Nascar is #1, because they are attracting the best drivers from all over the world.

[Alexamateo]

Also, just a side comment on open-wheel. I really believe the dynamic difference here is front-engine/ rear-engine. Obviously, sprints have open wheels, but have proven to be a great predictor of success in Nascar, because having a front engine, some of the handling characteristics are the same. It might even be a better training ground because you have to learn some finesse and cannot just beat and bang fenders.

So really this thread is about the rear-engine formula car drivers coming to Nascar, because the up and coming sprint car guys like Kevin Swindell and Ricky Stenhouse Jr are only pointing towards Nascar these days.

[Erki]

Mario's record will not be broken. Even in NASCAR the "Oldest" drivers are getting younger and younger as the series gets more competitive.

Didn't Dick Trickle won a Busch race in his late fifties?

[Lee Roy]

Didn't Dick Trickle won a Busch race in his late fifties?

Yes. But the oldest to ever win a Cup race was Harry Gant at 52 . . . a year younger than Mario when he won his last CART race.

[Robert Ryan]

Yes. But the oldest to ever win a Cup race was Harry Gant at 52 . . . a year younger than Mario when he won his last CART race.
Jack Brabham was a F1 championion in 1966 when he was 40. The problem is F1, like NASCAR, ALMS, Grand Am you name it, has dramatically become a lot more competitive and "old gagey gents"do not cut it anymore.

[muggle not]

Come on Stan, Who are they going to hype, Bobby East? I mean I know who Bobby East is because I follow sprints and his dad's a well-known car builder, but it's not really news. If Dario comes in and he attracts attention to the series, then the series is better off for it.

Face it, it's news, and it attracts new fans when a driver from a foreign country, who is married to a famous movie actress, who has won the Indy 500 and an IRL championship, and lost a CART Championship on a tie-breaker to Juan Pablo Montoya comes and races in your series.

This is going to vault Nascar to worldwide popularity much like Mansell did when he came to CART in 1993. (Just tell Bruton not to get any ideas about taking his tracks and splitting the series up :p : )


What it all means is that Nascar is #1, because they are attracting the best drivers from all over the world.
Joey Logano, a 17 year old who will be 18 in June next year will be the best of all the newcomers in the Busch Series, including the O.W. drivers with tons of O.W. experience.

The fan base in Nascar has actually been dropping since the O.W. drivers have tried to enter the series.. The TV ratings were down 13.2% in 2006 and are down 8.6% in 2007 to date. That is a bunch of people that Nascar is losing as fans.......and, look at the stands and you will see empty seats almost everywhere.

[Alexamateo]

Joey Logano, a 17 year old who will be 18 in June next year will be the best of all the newcomers in the Busch Series, including the O.W. drivers with tons of O.W. experience.

The fan base in Nascar has actually been dropping since the O.W. drivers have tried to enter the series.. The TV ratings were down 13.2% in 2006 and are down 8.6% in 2007 to date. That is a bunch of people that Nascar is losing as fans.......and, look at the stands and you will see empty seats almost everywhere.

I gotta agree with you on Joey Logano, he's gonna be a good one.

Ratings may be down in Nascar, but I don't necessarily think it's cause and effect because of the new drivers. What I do think is that Nascar has plateaued here in the US. I predict ratings will stabilize next year and then they'll rise a year or two and then fall a year or to. That is actually all the more reason to bring in International drivers (although by no means to the level CART used to have, that's too many, you need the connect to American grass-roots level.) That is where growth can come from, international fans following their heroes. That could eventually lead to International Nascar series. Then you could use the chase to really mean something by bringing over their Champions (one or two, not ten of course) and have them compete for the Championship with the 10 or so from here that are qualified for the championship. Don't know if it's workable or not, It's just an idea, and you've got to start somewhere.

Also, commenting on attendance, and seeing empty seats. Tracks have probably overbuilt. That coupled with increased fuel costs cutting into disposable income leads to lower attendance. Personal example, Last year I went to both the Memphis truck race in June, and the Busch race in fall along with Bristol night race. This year I only went to the Fall Busch race. I am not any less of a fan, but a second child and added expenses kept me from going to all the races I wanted to.

Remember 5 years ago any given track was sold out and 80,000, they built more and sold out 110,000 2 years ago. A non sell out 95,000 is still greater than it was, but now you see empty seats.

[muggle not]

Alexamateo, I am not putting all the blame on the influx of O.W. drivers. It is the direction that Brian is taking Nascar that is causing the big decline in fans, and not only any fans, but the important group of grass root fans. I live in Greensboro where they have one of the largest groups of the grass roots fans and listening to them talk it is obvious that they are unhappy with things recently. Many of them are saying the hell with Nascar and are becoming more involved with the other sports in the State. Nascar simply cannot lose this base of fans. I talked with some carpenters that were doing work on my house a while ago and asked them if they thought that Nascar would take a date away from Martinsville and they responded that if that happened it would be the end of watching nascar for them.

Along the same line the ratings were down at Texas:

Texas overnight TV ratings down from 2006: ABC's broadcast of Sunday's Dickies 500 Nextel Cup race at Texas Motor Speedway earned a 3.6 overnight Nielsen Media Research rating, Street & Smith's SportsBusiness Daily reports. The figure is 10% lower than the 4.0 NBC earned overnight for the race in 2006.(SceneDaily)

[Hoss Ghoul]

Villeneuve to attempt Phoenix: Jacques Villeneuve will attempt to make his second career Nextel Cup Series start behind the wheel of the #27 Toyota at Phoenix International Raceway. Richard "Slugger" Labbe will once again serve as crew chief.(BDR PR)

Also read that Franchitti will run both the remaining Busch series races.

[Vez]

It's official! Hornish will drive in Cup for Penske in 2008 alongside Ryan and Kurt.

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/11/08/shornishjr.penske/index.html

[Robert Ryan]

Many of them are saying the hell with Nascar and are becoming more involved with the other sports in the State. Nascar simply cannot lose this base of fans. I talked with some carpenters that were doing work on my house a while ago and asked them if they thought that Nascar would take a date away from Martinsville and they responded that if that happened it would be the end of watching nascar for them.
Muggle Not, Brian France has committed the most basic administration sin"If it is not broken, do not fix it". He has undertaken too many changes for a basically fairly conservative fan base. "The Overseas races and foreign drivers" are going to be a bit much for those carpenters working on that house. Throw in bizarre rules changes ;COT and you have a recipe for a lack of interest in NASCAR.

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

Muggle Not, Brian France has committed the most basic administration sin"If it is not broken, do not fix it". He has undertaken too many changes for a basically fairly conservative fan base. "The Overseas races and foreign drivers" are going to be a bit much for those carpenters working on that house. Throw in bizarre rules changes ;COT and you have a recipe for a lack of interest in NASCAR.



Nail hit squarely on the head.

Just as a side note. as a oversea's, non-american NASCAR fan i dont want races to be held here or anywhere outside the US. an exhibitions race or 2 would be good but NASCAR is an all american motorsport, its part of its charm.

[RaikkonenRules]

Formula One veteran David Coulthard is open to the thought of a future move to NASCAR, but not until his F1 days are solidly over. "I would consider something like NASCAR," Coulthard said just before practice for the Race of Champions. "I don't think I would consider IRL. The only thing is, America, you have to commit to it absolutely. Which means you move out there, take your family there. But I'd certainly consider it. This will be my 15th season in Formula One. After that ... I'll do this as long as I'm having fun, as long as they keep saying 'Would you like to continue?'" Coulthard said NASCAR's lengthy 38-week schedule is of no concern to him. He said he has in the past raced every week but Christmas weekend, "and that wasn't a problem. It's not hard to get in private planes." He also feels the influx of foreign driving talent, like his former F1 mates Juan Pablo Montoya and Jacques Villaneuve, into NASCAR bolsters the perception of stock car racing internationally

jayski.com

[Ichibrothers]

not until his F1 days are solidly over

That was sometime ago...was it not?

All the same, would be great to see him here in the States....in any series. Always liked DC. Why NASCAR though? Certainly a "different" challenge, but why not ALMS or Grand Am? Would seem a better fit. But then, could say that about any former F1 driver.

[Lee Roy]

That was sometime ago...was it not?

The article said it was "just before practice for the Race of Champions". The Race of Champions was just this past weekend (12/15-12/16).


All the same, would be great to see him here in the States....in any series. Always liked DC. Why NASCAR though? Certainly a "different" challenge, but why not ALMS or Grand Am? Would seem a better fit. But then, could say that about any former F1 driver.

NASCAR is big league and pays big bucks. I don't think ALMS and Grand Am can make that claim. JV and JPM have also chosen NASCAR over other racing series.

[harvick#1]

like DC really needs more money :rolleyes:

all these F1 drivers don't need more money, I really wish they would go to Prototype racing, because it would suit them more than being a moving chicane in Nascar

[JasonD]

DC knows the 2008 season is a tipping point in his career, he has to show some real brilliance to maintain a seat in F1.

So with that being said and most F1 fans knowing DC is past his winning days in F1, he might as well throw his interest in NASCAR out there to hopefully create some buzz and maybe get an offer.

It makes sense, hes on his way out and is just trying to line something else up, smart of him, though I think the NASCAR community is smart enough not to be interested.

[truckmonster]

What do you guys really think of the open wheel guys coming into Nascar? It can only be good for the series really cant it?Being British I gotta say I hope Dario does well although I still want Jr to win championship!

[muggle not]

What do you guys really think of the open wheel guys coming into Nascar? It can only be good for the series really cant it?Being British I gotta say I hope Dario does well although I still want Jr to win championship!
What do you consider is "doing well":
Finishing in the top 10 in points
Finsihing in the top 15 in points
Finishing in the top 20 in points

Experienced world class drivers and former Champions that come into Nascar and finish out of the top 20 or 25 have not done very well IMO. I may have to re-think that but it is my first thought.

[truckmonster]

I think top 15 really would be realistic, although it would be a great achievement for him!

[Sparky1329]

Dario will have a guaranteed spot for the first five races so that should help. Staying in the top 35 after race 5 will be the challenge. He hasn't raced in any Cup series races which doesn't bode well for his chances in my opinion. Racing in one ARCA series race is meaningless in this regard. When you also consider that his team has never been terribly competitive I'd say he has a very tough row to hoe.

[Jonesi]

Probably none of the team/cars that any of the OW drivers are getting into are able to break the top 15 in points, with an experienced driver. Getting/staying in the top 35 will be "success" for them. Breaking into the top 25 would be very good, and top 20 would be excellent.

[Gasman]

What do you guys really think of the open wheel guys coming into Nascar? It can only be good for the series really cant it?Being British I gotta say I hope Dario does well although I still want Jr to win championship!

Like "Truckmonster" I'll be supporting Jr at Daytona come February.

I'm English, however I don't support drivers just because of their nationality; but that said, I would have been interested to see how Dan Wheldon would perform at Daytona et al. Its a pity that Dan didn't want to race in the (now sadly defunct) IROC series after his win in the Indy 500.

I would also suspect that with his record on US ovals (albeit in open wheelers) he would have had a better chance in a Stock Car than those other former IRL/CART/F1 drivers that have got a ride for 2008 in the Cup. I think that I'm right in saying that he has said in the past that he is interested in trying NASCAR at some stage, so maybe...?

[DanicaFan]

I think Dario will do very well. He will suprise a lot of NASCAR fans next year.

Go Dario !!

[harvick#1]

hes gonna find out how tough Nascar quickly is, he wont be in the best car like he was in the IRL, the cars are heavier and he'll have to learn to go through the corners instead of being full throttle at most of the tracks that the IRL raced at.

He may get 1 top finish next year, but that will prolly be about it

[SOD]

http://www.simpsonstrivia.com.ar/simpsons-photos/wallpapers/groundskeeper-wille.jpg

[muggle not]

Probably will not finsh in the top 20 in points. Just hope he doesn't do damage to those in contention for the chase.

[harvick#1]

He may get 1 top finish next year, but that will prolly be about it

should be 1 top ten finish, maybe...

[Sparky1329]

should be 1 top ten finish, maybe...

I'll believe it when I see it. I won't be holding my breath waiting.

[Jonesi]

I'll believe it when I see it. I won't be holding my breath waiting.

I'm not sure why you think he'll do that bad. This year Montoya (in about the same equipment Franchitti will have) had 5 top 10s, including one in the 4th race of the year and a win. Stremme in the team he's going into had 2. I think he will do at least that well. He may not be as talented as Montoya, but he probably won't make some of the low percentage moves that Montoya did either.

[JasonD]

Just hope he doesn't do damage to those in contention for the chase.

But Im sure you'll point out when a veteran causes the "big one" or ruins someones chances during the chase. :rolleyes:

[RaceFanStan]

AJ Allmendinger, Patrick Carpentier & Jacques Villeneuve are having a meeting Sunday ...
they are going to have a bbq in Orlando & watch the Daytona 500 together ...
because all 3 of them failed to qualify for the Daytona 500 they are very distraught ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/jo.gif
so they are meeting to critique the Daytona 500 & the drivers that made the race ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/w.gif
rumor has it they plan to talk trash about Montoya, Hornish & Franchitti ... (among others) http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[Sparky1329]

AJ Allmendinger, Patrick Carpentier & Jacques Villeneuve are having a meeting Sunday ...
they are going to have a bbq in Orlando & watch the Daytona 500 together ...
because all 3 of them failed to qualify for the Daytona 500 they are very distraught ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/jo.gif
so they are meeting to critique the Daytona 500 & the drivers that made the race ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/w.gif
rumor has it they plan to talk trash about Montoya, Hornish & Franchitti ... (among others) http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

:D

[Fangio]

AJ Allmendinger, Patrick Carpentier & Jacques Villeneuve are having a meeting Sunday ...
they are going to have a bbq in Orlando & watch the Daytona 500 together ...
because all 3 of them failed to qualify for the Daytona 500 they are very distraught ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/jo.gif
so they are meeting to critique the Daytona 500 & the drivers that made the race ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/w.gif
rumor has it they plan to talk trash about Montoya, Hornish & Franchitti ... (among others) http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

LOL, you mean they are going to trash talk the drivers that where guaranteed a starting spot no matter how much they sucked?....hornish(cough)

:D

[JasonD]

AJ Allmendinger, Patrick Carpentier & Jacques Villeneuve are having a meeting Sunday ...

Would that be at a hotel or AJ's weekend timeshare he was looking at. With AJ spending so much time AWAY from the track it might be cheaper and more comfortable getting the timeshare.

[RaceFanStan]

from IndyCar Forum > Ex-Open Wheelers' qualifying pathetic at Daytona 500 :

Tony Stewart - - - Qualified 6th - - - former IndyCar Champion
Juan Pablo Montoya - - - Qualified 15th - - - Indy 500 Champion, CART Champion Formula 1 World Champion
Sam Hornish Jr. - - - Qualified 19th - - - Indy 500 Champion, 3 Time IndyCar Champion
John Andretti - - - Qualified 22nd - - - CART and Indy 500 driver
Robby Gordon - - - Qualified 26th - - - CART, IRL and Indy 500 driver
J.J. Yeley - - - Qualified 37th - - - IRL and Indy 500 driver
Dario Franchitti - - - Qualified 40th - - IRL Champion, Indy 500 Champion
A.J. Allmendinger - - - DNQ - - - CCWS driver, Atlantics Champion, CCWS Rookie of the Year
Patrick Carpentier - - - DNQ - - - CART driver, IRL and Indy 500 driver
Jacques Villeneuve - - - DNQ - - - Indy 500 Champion, CART Champion, Formula 1 World Champion, CART Rookie of the Year

pretty sad showing for the open wheel guys going from "fighter jets" to "B-52 bombers"
I had to chuckle when I read that. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[Robert Ryan]

Patrick Carpentier suprises in qualifying. 12th in Cup and I think 7th or 8th in Nationwide. He has been impressive considering his total lack of experience and poor equipment.

[JasonD]

And hes aparently got a major, major, major sponsor lined up.

[woody2goody]

Here is my opinion on the current situation between NASCAR, and open-wheel motor racing, especially F1. Please read and post your opinions :)

NASCAR in general seems to have a snobbish attitude towards any open-wheel driver who comes into 'their' sport. Juan Montoya, Jacques Villeneuve, Dario Franchitti, Sam Hornish and Patrick Carpentier have endured endless bitching, sniping and questions about their driving ability, just because they come from F1 and the IRL. Between them, they have 4 Indy 500 wins, 18 Grand Prix wins, 1 Formula One World Championship, 4 IRL championships, 2 CART championships and 2 NASCAR victories. If this doesn't convince the NASCAR faithful I don't know what will. I think because 4 of them are foreigners a lot of old-school fans are just not giving them a chance. They are prepared to give a young American kid coming from midgets through modified, through trucks and N-wide years and years of patience waiting for them to improve. But when an open-wheel driver takes one of 'their' places, there is uproar.

Last season, when Sam Hornish was struggling to qualify for races, many NASCAR fans said that he just wasn't good enough. But they probably didn't notice that half the time he was only 0.3-0.7 off pole, and it was really the top 35 rule that was keeping him out of the show. Now granted, these drivers have had a tendency to bang the walls and find themselves in the barriers occasionally, but this is part of their learning process.

Jaqcues Villeneuve has been unlucky in NASCAR. Unlucky with the criticism he has recieved, despite his honest gesture at Talladega to start at the back. Bill Davis Racing didn't give him enough time; I don't care if he had sponsorship issues, he would have qualified for most of the races this year, just because of his natural talent, and his ability to pull out a terrifically fast lap in quali. Johnny Benson will not get into as many races as Jacques would have. I hope he comes back to prove everyone wrong.

Montoya has had bad luck, a few accidents, a few bad performances, and a few good performances, including two wins (in seperate series), and yet many are still not convinced. His team isn't a front runner, and yet he does a very good job. Surely a CART championship, an Indy 500 win, 95 grands prix, 7 wins and now two NASCAR wins would be enough to convince the fans. Obviously not. I hope he makes the Chase for the Cup just to annoy a lot of them.

The difference with many F1 fans is, that they tend to appreciate others' achievements more. Sebastien Bourdais has won 4 Champ Car championships in a row. He comes to Toro Rosso and some people have their doubts, however they are willing to give him a chance to prove himself. The problem in NASCAR, is if a guy doesn't do well to begin with from open-wheel, he automatically isn't good enough. I guarantee, if Michael Schumacher was in a Hendrick Chevy, he wouldn't probably get into the top 10 for a few races. Would that mean he's not good enough? No. Just as if Bourdais gets beaten by Vettel next week, it doesn't mean that he isn't good enough.

There are many F1 fans who dismiss NASCAR as easy, and uninteresting because of the circuits they race on. I bet nearly anyone could run one fast lap at Daytona. Whereas hardly anyone could do a flying lap of monaco without ending up in the wall, or indeed the harbour. NASCAR has basic tracks, but the races are all about feeling the car, and planning according to how it feels, and taking the appropriate lines etc. This is in contrast with F1, where it is more reactionary, and the circuits offer far more of a challenge in themselves. F1 is technology and development, NASCAR is parity and exciting racing. NASCAR has longer races, and possibly more concentration is needed, because of the longer time period.

I think the sports are equal in many ways, except F1 enjoys a greater global audience. F1 drivers CAN cut it in NASCAR, and NASCAR drivers, I'm sure, can cut it in F1, although it would help if they had open-wheel experience first. Jeff Gordon proved he could do well when he tested the Williams with JPM in 2003 I think.

[Lee Roy]

Here is my opinion on the current situation between NASCAR, and open-wheel motor racing, especially F1. Please read and post your opinions :)


NASCAR in general seems to have a snobbish attitude towards any open-wheel driver who comes into 'their' sport. Juan Montoya, Jacques Villeneuve, Dario Franchitti, Sam Hornish and Patrick Carpentier have endured endless bitching, sniping and questions about their driving ability, just because they come from F1 and the IRL. Between them, they have 4 Indy 500 wins, 18 Grand Prix wins, 1 Formula One World Championship, 4 IRL championships, 2 CART championships and 2 NASCAR victories. If this doesn't convince the NASCAR faithful I don't know what will. I think because 4 of them are foreigners a lot of old-school fans are just not giving them a chance. They are prepared to give a young American kid coming from midgets through modified, through trucks and N-wide years and years of patience waiting for them to improve. But when an open-wheel driver takes one of 'their' places, there is uproar.

Not sure where you're getting this "snobby" nonsense from. I've noticed that the open-wheel drivers have been very welcome. I think you're the one with the "snobby" issue. I think you've been reading the open-wheel/nascar-hate websites and nothing else.


Last season, when Sam Hornish was struggling to qualify for races, many NASCAR fans said that he just wasn't good enough. But they probably didn't notice that half the time he was only 0.3-0.7 off pole, and it was really the top 35 rule that was keeping him out of the show. Now granted, these drivers have had a tendency to bang the walls and find themselves in the barriers occasionally, but this is part of their learning process.

You mentioned Sam Hornish. He and Franchitti were given cars with spots in the top 35 in points for the first 5 races(that they didn't earn by the way), and in three races they have both dropped out of the top 35 for this year.

To put it simply, they were given an 5 race head start and haven't been able to keep up.


Jaqcues Villeneuve has been unlucky in NASCAR. Unlucky with the criticism he has recieved, despite his honest gesture at Talladega to start at the back. Bill Davis Racing didn't give him enough time; I don't care if he had sponsorship issues, he would have qualified for most of the races this year, just because of his natural talent, and his ability to pull out a terrifically fast lap in quali. Johnny Benson will not get into as many races as Jacques would have. I hope he comes back to prove everyone wrong.

Jacques Villeneuve (and I'm a huge fan of his, atteneded many F1 races to see him race) was a victim of his long time association with Craig Pollock. Nothing new.


Montoya has had bad luck, a few accidents, a few bad performances, and a few good performances, including two wins (in seperate series), and yet many are still not convinced. His team isn't a front runner, and yet he does a very good job. Surely a CART championship, an Indy 500 win, 95 grands prix, 7 wins and now two NASCAR wins would be enough to convince the fans. Obviously not. I hope he makes the Chase for the Cup just to annoy a lot of them.

I don't know anyone who doesn't like Montoya. He's doing very well.


The difference with many F1 fans is, that they tend to appreciate others' achievements more. Sebastien Bourdais has won 4 Champ Car championships in a row. He comes to Toro Rosso and some people have their doubts, however they are willing to give him a chance to prove himself. The problem in NASCAR, is if a guy doesn't do well to begin with from open-wheel, he automatically isn't good enough. I guarantee, if Michael Schumacher was in a Hendrick Chevy, he wouldn't probably get into the top 10 for a few races. Would that mean he's not good enough? No. Just as if Bourdais gets beaten by Vettel next week, it doesn't mean that he isn't good enough.

Lord have mercy, where are you coming up with that non-sense. A lot of people get opportunities in NASCAR, whereas Formula One is one of the most "closed-shop" organizations on the face of the earth. If you want to show up and race at NASCAR, you are welcome to try (if you meet some minimum experience standards and have a legal car).

Can you do the same in Formula One? No effin' way!!!! If you're not part of the Concorde Agreement, don't bother.


There are many F1 fans who dismiss NASCAR as easy, and uninteresting because of the circuits they race on. I bet nearly anyone could run one fast lap at Daytona. Whereas hardly anyone could do a flying lap of monaco without ending up in the wall, or indeed the harbour. NASCAR has basic tracks, but the races are all about feeling the car, and planning according to how it feels, and taking the appropriate lines etc. This is in contrast with F1, where it is more reactionary, and the circuits offer far more of a challenge in themselves. F1 is technology and development, NASCAR is parity and exciting racing. NASCAR has longer races, and possibly more concentration is needed, because of the longer time period.

Your prejudice against NASCAR is showing.


I think the sports are equal in many ways, except F1 enjoys a greater global audience. F1 drivers CAN cut it in NASCAR, and NASCAR drivers, I'm sure, can cut it in F1, although it would help if they had open-wheel experience first. Jeff Gordon proved he could do well when he tested the Williams with JPM in 2003 I think.


Sorry, I know enough about Formula One to know just how full of holes your arguments are.

[BenRoethig]

The problem is that all those open wheel and road racing achievements don't translate very well. They have to basically forget every they ever learned driving other kinds of cars and learn how to drive a stock car. If they come in with the "oval racing sucks, NASCAB is going to be so easy" mentality prevalent within the road racing circles they will and have failed miserably. If they go straight into cup without learning how to drive a stock car they will fail miserably. If they put aside their ego and their past success, begin at a lower level and take the time to learn how to drive a stock car, they have a chance.

[woody2goody]

Not sure where you're getting this "snobby" nonsense from. I've noticed that the open-wheel drivers have been very welcome. I think you're the one with the "snobby" issue. I think you've been reading the open-wheel/nascar-hate websites and nothing else.

No. And I've never even seen an open-wheel/NASCAR hate website.


You mentioned Sam Hornish. He and Franchitti were given cars with spots in the top 35 in points for the first 5 races(that they didn't earn by the way), and in three races they have both dropped out of the top 35 for this year.

To put it simply, they were given an 5 race head start and haven't been able to keep up.

Hornish got wrecked in California and Atlanta. Not sure about Dario, but he has struggled. He'll be alright it's just he'll need time to adjust.


Jacques Villeneuve (and I'm a huge fan of his, atteneded many F1 races to see him race) was a victim of his long time association with Craig Pollock. Nothing new.

I can see Pollock being a problem, but he was still booted too quickly by BDR in my opinion.


I don't know anyone who doesn't like Montoya. He's doing very well.

Fair enough. But I've still heard rumblings in the off season saying 'JPM has to deliver or he's not good enough'.


Lord have mercy, where are you coming up with that non-sense. A lot of people get opportunities in NASCAR, whereas Formula One is one of the most "closed-shop" organizations on the face of the earth. If you want to show up and race at NASCAR, you are welcome to try (if you meet some minimum experience standards and have a legal car).

Can you do the same in Formula One? No effin' way!!!! If you're not part of the Concorde Agreement, don't bother.

I myself have said many times that F1 should be more open and accessible to more drivers. But if there was a turn up and go mentality in F1, some cars would be terribly slow and would get blown away. You can tell that there is a difference between bigger and smaller teams in the NASCAR pitlane, but that difference is probably only 0.5 seconds a lap (a lot on an oval, yes), whereas in F1 it would be more than 5 seconds with the rate of technology and development that the top teams have. Even many of the factory teams in F1 struggle to keep up with the pace. That's why the Concorde Agreement is there.



Your prejudice against NASCAR is showing.

How does that make you think I have a predjudice against NASCAR? I love NASCAR, and if you notice, I make several good comments about NASCAR and it's drivers. I would watch NASCAR every weekend if I could, but I ony get an hour's highlights every week. NASCAR is a fantastic spectacle, and I have the utmost respect for the guys that slug it out on those ovals.

When I said it was easy to run a fast lap at Daytona, that would be without any other cars there. I believe I could qualify a car at Daytona and get within a couple of seconds (in the best car). But put me into a race and I would be useless, and frankly dangerous. The skill in NASCAR isn't as much in driving the tracks (although that is still significant), than racing in a pack, knowing when to push the tyres, conserving fuel and not taking out a guy when you try to pass them.


Sorry, I know enough about Formula One to know just how full of holes your arguments are.

And I know enough about NASCAR to know that your arguments aren't watertight either ;)

It just seems to me that both series don't give each other enough credit. And IRL and Champ Car come into that as well. I wouldn't moan if Kasey Kahne or Jeff Gordon was put into an F1 car over, say Anthony Davidson or Adam Carroll or someone like that, because I know that whoever was put into the car has earned it. I just wish SOME fans were the same, fans of BOTH series.

[woody2goody]

Sorry, Hornish got wrecked at Las Vegas, not Atlanta. My bad :)

[Lee Roy]

No. And I've never even seen an open-wheel/NASCAR hate website.

They're called open-wheel forums. There's one on this webpage. Right now, it's pretty well policed for NASCAR Hate Talk. But in the past, according to many there, and on many on other open-wheel forums that I have visited, because I am a NASCAR fan:

I weigh 450 pounds;
I'm uneducated;
Work for minimum wage (when I do work);
Not only am I married to my sister, but my parents were also first cousins;
I have a maximum of 2 teeth;
My abode is a trailer;
etc., etc., etc,

NASCAR drivers and other people involved in NASCAR get no respect either.

That's what I'm talking about.


Hornish got wrecked in California and Atlanta. Not sure about Dario, but he has struggled. He'll be alright it's just he'll need time to adjust.

Again, Hornish and Franchitti, hot-shot Indy 500 winners and IRL Champs, got unearned 5 race head starts this year, and they can't keep up.

They will get guaranteed starts this weekend at Bristol, but if they underperform again, they will be "Go Or Go Home" cars at Martinsville, and I have my doubts that they have the experience be able to qualify there.



I can see Pollock being a problem, but he was still booted too quickly by BDR in my opinion.

He lost out because his promised sponsorship didn't come through. As much as I love Jacques, he was lost in a Cup car. He needs to spend a year in ARCA, and maybe a year in the Trucks and Nationwide series. Bill Davis Racing is not rich enough to carry him in a Cup car as a "learning experience". And why can't a former Indy 500 winner, CART and World Champion get sponsorship????


Fair enough. But I've still heard rumblings in the off season saying 'JPM has to deliver or he's not good enough'.

That's between Montoya and Ganassi and their sponsors.


I myself have said many times that F1 should be more open and accessible to more drivers. But if there was a turn up and go mentality in F1, some cars would be terribly slow and would get blown away. You can tell that there is a difference between bigger and smaller teams in the NASCAR pitlane, but that difference is probably only 0.5 seconds a lap (a lot on an oval, yes), whereas in F1 it would be more than 5 seconds with the rate of technology and development that the top teams have. Even many of the factory teams in F1 struggle to keep up with the pace. That's why the Concorde Agreement is there.

Oh lord, where did you make up that non-sense from. The Concorde Agreement is an agreement on how F1 will operate and how the financial proceeds will be distributed. F1 is a closed shop because they want it that way to keep the value of the teams up. If you want to play in F1 you have to spend millions upon millions to purchase an existing team.

I recall when they did allow teams that wanted to, to participate. They had a pre-qualifying system, much like NASCAR's guaranteed 35 starting spots. As a matter of fact, NASCAR's guaranteed 35 is almost a complete copy in many ways. They now have a CLOSED SHOP. If you aren't in the club, don't bother to show up.


It just seems to me that both series don't give each other enough credit. And IRL and Champ Car come into that as well. I wouldn't moan if Kasey Kahne or Jeff Gordon was put into an F1 car over, say Anthony Davidson or Adam Carroll or someone like that, because I know that whoever was put into the car has earned it. I just wish SOME fans were the same, fans of BOTH series.

I've been a big fan of both F1 and NASCAR for years. I tried to be a fan of CART, but I was driven off by the hatefulness of the fans. (See above.) F1 is good enough to make it worthwhile to wade through the non-sense of some of those fans.

It has been my experience that NASCAR and it's fans have given much more respect to other racing series than they have ever received. In the past, you haven't seen threads bashing other racing series on NASCAR forums like you constantly see NASCAR bashing threads on open-wheel fourms.

I think that the Open-wheel drivers have been given much respect, but they are finding out that the Cup level in NASCAR is much more difficult than they thought it would be. That's life. There are always other drivers waiting in the wings to take their place if they can't keep up. Being from "open-wheel" doesn't make them "special". Sorry

[woody2goody]

I agree with you about the open-wheel forums. That's just plain insulting to NASCAR fans. They should do something better with their life than slag off NASCAR. I wouldn't ever make that assupmtion.

Hornish has been unlucky though you have to admit. Bristol and Martinsville are a test of your credentials that's for sure.

I wondered that about JV's sponsorship. And howTravis Kvapil had it for Daytona and not afterwards. I saw that Bobby Labonte, a former champion, doesn't have a sponsor for his Nationwide car either. Strange times. I agree with you that the trucks would be a great place for him to learn with less pressure. He already has some Truck starts under his belt so that could bode well. Especially now he could joust with fellow ex-F1er Scott Speed.

I get what you say about the Concorde Agreement, but I read in magazines and on websites that the Concorde Agreement for 26, then 24 cars was put in place by Bernie Ecclestone, who wanted to 'tidy up' 'his' show, and not have teams and drivers involved who couldn't compete at the highest level. He was more concerned with F1's image than it's accessiblity. this is why he dictated the finances, and put in place the $48 million entry bond, which is ridiculous in my opinion.

I personally don't agree with NASCAR's top 35 rule. I think everyone should have to to pre-qualify, with, for example, last year's top-12 drivers getting 1 provisional each, and maybe past champions should get an extra one. Just one mind you. that way they could get away with one bad qualifying, but not two. And a missed race would be a disaster if you fighting for the championship.

NASCAR does seem to respect other series, but it doesn't really recognise achievements as much. I know that F1 doesn't sometimes respect NASCAR, or the DTM, or Champ Car/IRL. I'm not happy about that, because, especially after a couple of years as a NASCAR fan, I definitely appreciate other series' achievements more than I used to.

[e2mtt]

Scott Speed finishes tenth in truck race at Martinsville (his second career Truck race)

This guy is trying to work up through the ranks the right way... and I think he is the real deal.

Some quotes:


"Those guys are really aggressive," Speed said. "For the first half of the race I was like 'Are you guys kidding me? We've got just 20 or 50 laps in!' Everyone told me going in to be cool, save your brakes and try to keep the car together, and now I know why. It's because everyone's crazy."

"I'm definitely happy," he said. "The patience part honestly, that and being smart and thinking, is the best part of my game, so for me this track plays into my personality. The hard part is to figure out which guys are nuts and which guys are crazy."

[ShiftingGears]

Scott Speed finishes tenth in truck race at Martinsville (his second career Truck race)

This guy is trying to work up through the ranks the right way... and I think he is the real deal.

Some quotes:

Yep - good luck to him as well!

[woody2goody]

I agree. i liked him in Formula One, but a mixture of bad team management and horrendous luck with mechanical failures/accidents halted his progress somewhat. He wasn't any better than Liuzzi but you could tell he was improving before he was booted out by STR.

It's good that he's doing the truck races to work his way up. I'm surprised Villeneuve isn't trying to do truck races but there you go.

Some props to Juan Pablo after Phoenix; he is 15th in the standings without a single top 10 finish. He's been very consistent and has kept out of trouble the last few weeks. he's only about 50 points of a top 12 position at the moment.

[ShiftingGears]

Well done to Speed, who won his first ARCA race. He is the most likely ex-OW driver to succeed.

[ShiftingGears]

Well done to Speed, who won his first ARCA race. He is the most likely ex-OW driver to succeed.

After Montoya...

[Placid]

Prior to the next round at Montreal, David Coulthard will make a visit this week
and observe the Red Bull Toyota team.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080527002747.shtml

[nigelred5]

Of course we'll probably have no chance to get anywhere near him. I'll be there Sunday. Hopefully he'll get a good idea of how NASCAR and it's drivers treat loyal fans and take a little of that back to F1.

[tstran17_88]

I thought I heard Bob Varsha or David Hobbs mention he's about to get booted out of his F1 ride with Red Bull during the Monaco Grand Prix. He's probably going to try peddling himself for a Cup ride.

[harvick#1]

he better be only observing, no way I want to see him in Nascar

[JSH]

He's probably going to try peddling himself for a Cup ride.

The reason Crazy-Dave is still driving OW cars is because he actually can't fit into a tintop due to his jaw.... :p

There's no way he could squeeze into the drivers window of a Cup car..

[tstran17_88]

The reason Crazy-Dave is still driving OW cars is because he actually can't fit into a tintop due to his jaw.... :p

There's no way he could squeeze into the drivers window of a Cup car..The COT has a bigger window opening than the old car...even AJ Foyt Jr could fit through now! :laugh:

[JasonD]

Well its not a full-time ride or even a one off race but it is a test and thats what my boy needs, some seat time and to get into the swing of things.

*******************************
TRACY TO TEST CRAFTSMAN TRUCK WITH GERMAIN RACING

TSN.CA STAFF
5/27/2008 10:51:05 AM

While his open-wheel colleagues were busy turning circles around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway on Sunday, Paul Tracy was not sitting at home lamenting the fact he could not be part of the unified Indy 500.
Instead, the former Champ Car champion was busy making travel arrangements for Chicago where he will take part in a NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series test on Wednesday for Germain Racing.

This will be Tracy's first experience behind the wheel of a truck but as he has shown in the past, the open-wheeler has been quick to adapt to any number of racing disciplines - NASCAR, Grand-Am and off-road trucks.

"I'm still young and I have a great passion for the sport of racing, and I plan to be a part of it for many years to come," said Tracy from his home in Las Vegas.

"My situation with Forsythe was unfortunate, but it has opened up so many other opportunities for me and I'm really enjoying my life right now."

"The Germain Racing team is a championship team that is committed to winning, so it humbles me to be able to take part in a test and share a Toyota Tundra with Todd Bodine. He is one of the best in the business and I'm looking forward to getting to Chicago on Wednesday and doing whatever I can to learn from him so that I can experience my own success should I go that direction."

Tracy last raced competitively at the Champ Car finale at Long Beach in April. At that event, he confirmed that he had secured his release from Forsythe Racing, which would allow him to pursue other opportunities. While he says he would like to compete in the unified IndyCar series, Tracy has maintained he would prefer to race with one of the top tier teams such as Penske, Andretti Green or Ganassi.

[coogmaster]

This sucks. He needs to be in an Indycar. That's one more star lost to the taxi cabs.

[call_me_andrew]

That is one bored man.

[Simmi]

What are the chances of Red Bull extending their operation to 3 cars in the future? With Scott Speed coming on it might be something they are considering. And with DC in the future who knows?

[Chamoo]

That is one bored man.

Agreed.

Why can't an Indycar team give him a test, or why can't he take a one-off with Vision in Edmonton or something?