Control tyres for 2008

[MJW]

BF Goodrich have also developed a "control tyre" to the 2008 rules, and apparently this has been tested by its contracted teams and was faster than the Pirelli version and as resilient. Michelin /BFG have secretly developed this in tandem with their legal action as they are convinced they have a good chance of winning the legal battle with the FIA, and they way the contract was awarded.

[Daniel]

You didn't need to tell us that Michelin could make a more resilient and faster tyre. The 2005 season where Marcus and Petter has those hopeles Pirelli's is proof that Pirelli can't make a fast tyre for all conditions :)

[Buzz Lightyear]

BF Goodrich have also developed a "control tyre" to the 2008 rules, and apparently this has been tested by its contracted teams and was faster than the Pirelli version and as resilient. Michelin /BFG have secretly developed this in tandem with their legal action as they are convinced they have a good chance of winning the legal battle with the FIA, and they way the contract was awarded.


The idea of a controlled tyre, is that it doesnt matter if there faster or more resilient. My preference would be preferable if they were slower, and less resilient.... i.e... cars sliding.

[Camelopard]

My preference is that all teams get the same tyre, that way no driver or team gets preferential treatment.......................... not that I'm hinting at anything that happens now......................... :rolleyes:

[Brother John]

It´s good they have Pirelli!
If we had Michelin (French) you wil see the same thinks at Citroën like we saw in Germany, Duval´s car!!!!!!!!
Loeb had a Xsara in 2006 with exceptional options, only for him.
Don´t you see this is ore was in the past also possible with exceptional tyre for Loeb! The tyre look the same, but..........it was French.... :dozey:

[AndyRAC]

I'm sorry but control tyres are for junior formulae. Just because F1 are now on Bridgestones doesn't mean WRC has to go with just Pirelli. The top Championship should be for drivers,manufacturers, tyre suppliers, etc. If you go control tyre, why not go the whole hog and have a control car. F1A just want to teach Michelin a lesson, over the Indy 2005 saga, childish games really.

[René]

It´s good they have Pirelli!
If we had Michelin (French) you wil see the same thinks at Citroën like we saw in Germany, Duval´s car!!!!!!!!
Loeb had a Xsara in 2006 with exceptional options, only for him.
Don´t you see this is ore was in the past also possible with exceptional tyre for Loeb! The tyre look the same, but..........it was French.... :dozey:

Are you serious BJ ?

Do you imagine that a company as Michelin behaves like a simple shady ?

Why is this so difficult for you to accept that Citroen or Loeb can win honestly ?

For you there is only when Marcus or Ford wins that it is a beautiful and honest victory ?

[Roy]

Are you serious BJ ?

Do you imagine that a company as Michelin behaves like a simple shady ?

Why is this so difficult for you to accept that Citroen or Loeb can win honestly ?

For you there is only when Marcus or Ford wins that it is a beautiful and honest victory ?

American team (Ford) drive American Tyres (BF Goodrich) :D

If people realy think tyrecompanies make another tyres for teams you don't understand how it works. They come from the truck and FIA check the tyres. Then they give it to rally teams. Dont's say FIA is France. FIA is international an based in Switserland... The 'all-France-control-in-rally-theory' is insane. Why do FIA kill (French) Michelin company?
Get a live.

[Daniel]

My preference is that all teams get the same tyre, that way no driver or team gets preferential treatment.......................... not that I'm hinting at anything that happens now......................... :rolleyes:
You should stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking.

[WRCfan]

Put em all back on Pirelli. Only people who have experience on it of late are Subaru and not like the change would have them miles out in front. Put everything back to a level playing field.

Sliding is good, we are afterall watching WRC not F1, Loeb and the rest will be able to adapt to the Pirelli's.....

At the end of the day it doesnt matter, we are on a control tyre now anyway!
What does it matter if it changes to Pirelli? So its a little slippery, it's the same for everyone!

[Livewireshock]

I like the notion of controlled specification rather than a set controlled part. We are seeing this at the moment with the IRC where Sadev are no longer the only gearbox manufacturer.

Now three companies are now able to build the part to a FIA specification. This will lower the cost due to competition & allows for more interest in the sport.

Why can't a set construction & make up of a tyre be made up for slicks, mud, gravel & snow. Then let all tyre companies to build the tyres to this standard. It will allow greater variety in a sense, increase sponsorship from the tyre makers & will provide a cheaper tyre for privateers through competition.

Batch sampling & vigilent testing will ensure that tyres are kept to the controlled standard. This same procedure can be introduced to many other components with a set standard for brakes, suspension & much more.

[Daniel]

I don't think it would really be possible to get manufacturers to build tyres to specification when the chemical makeup of the tyre and the manufacturing process is so important to how it performs.

[Brother John]

American team (Ford) drive American Tyres (BF Goodrich) :D

If people realy think tyrecompanies make another tyres for teams you don't understand how it works. They come from the truck and FIA check the tyres. Then they give it to rally teams. Dont's say FIA is France. FIA is international an based in Switserland... The 'all-France-control-in-rally-theory' is insane. Why do FIA kill (French) Michelin company?
Get a live.

I have a live! :rolleyes:
You would stand mended if you knew what happened in the companies there.
I had a lot of contact with all kinds of companies concerning complete Europe, I know what I have seen and have heard. If you believe in all what they tell, your the perfect customer! :s mokin: :D

[Daniel]

Don't make me come and get rid of all the gas in your beer BJ :mark: :p : :arrows:

[Brother John]

Don't make me come and get rid of all the gas in your beer BJ :mark: :p : :arrows:

Your welcom, i have a party tomorrow! ;)

[Livewireshock]

I don't think it would really be possible to get manufacturers to build tyres to specification when the chemical makeup of the tyre and the manufacturing process is so important to how it performs.

When the chemical makeup laid out, construction & the manufacturing process are all spelled out then nothing should be the matter. There is no need to continually test & build new & different tyres & compounds. FIA testing of randomly selected tyres ensure that all is equal & to standard.

The other alternative is for a generically made tyre that is bought & rebranded by the various tyre makers. This has been done for some categories around the world.

[Daniel]

But the problem is that processes are sometimes kept secret. If the secret to Michelin's tyre longevity is bathing their tyres in horse urine for 3 days before they ship them then they're hardly going to want competitors to know this. I can see how this would work for gearboxes or steering wheels because it's more down to measurements but I don't see how this would work for tyres ;)

[Brother John]

But the problem is that processes are sometimes kept secret. If the secret to Michelin's tyre longevity is bathing their tyres in horse urine for 3 days before they ship them then they're hardly going to want competitors to know this. I can see how this would work for gearboxes or steering wheels because it's more down to measurements but I don't see how this would work for tyres ;)

I tolld you! If you believe in all what they tell ore not tell, your the perfect customer! :s mokin: :D

[Livewireshock]

But the problem is that processes are sometimes kept secret. If the secret to Michelin's tyre longevity is bathing their tyres in horse urine for 3 days before they ship them then they're hardly going to want competitors to know this. I can see how this would work for gearboxes or steering wheels because it's more down to measurements but I don't see how this would work for tyres ;)

Naturally, if a company like Michelin was asked to divulge the nature of their tyres, they would baulk at it. What I am suggesting is to get rid of the secret, cloak & dagger & behind closed doors routine. This is what adds millions of dollars to the costs in the WRC tyre campaign.

But if the FIA designed a tyre spec, with the help of freelance engineers, then state that this is how all tyres will be made. Then all companies can produce the same tyre with virtually identical performance values.

No need for dunking any tyres in any urine or whatever the case may be. As any tampering or altering of the tyres construction, to give an increased advantage, could be identified in stringent testing of random tyres both in the factories & on events.

[Daniel]

Naturally, if a company like Michelin was asked to divulge the nature of their tyres, they would baulk at it. What I am suggesting is to get rid of the secret, cloak & dagger & behind closed doors routine. This is what adds millions of dollars to the costs in the WRC tyre campaign.

But if the FIA designed a tyre spec, with the help of freelance engineers, then state that this is how all tyres will be made. Then all companies can produce the same tyre with virtually identical performance values.

No need for dunking any tyres in any urine or whatever the case may be. As any tampering or altering of the tyres construction, to give an increased advantage, could be identified in stringent testing of random tyres both in the factories & on events.
But what's the point in Michelin being there if their tyres are only just as good as Pirelli's or Dunlop's if it was indeed possible for two different companies to make an identical tyre. Perhaps if one company was to make the tyres and then the tyres were chosen at random and then a logo was sprayed on at that stage then it might work but what's the point I say :)

[Livewireshock]

But what's the point in Michelin being there if their tyres are only just as good as Pirelli's or Dunlop's if it was indeed possible for two different companies to make an identical tyre. Perhaps if one company was to make the tyres and then the tyres were chosen at random and then a logo was sprayed on at that stage then it might work but what's the point I say :)

So they get noticed. That is why. Advertising their product & for a fraction of the cost.

The reason they are jumping up & down about missing out on the control tyre issue is not because of tyre performance or winning rallies. It is because they can not use the WRC to advertise their product.

If the tyres were on a more equal footing, then there is an equal chance of success & with that an equal chance for bragging rights. All without spending millions of dollars/pounds/yen/euros in an arms race that has not end or limit. This is scaring off other tyre companies from entering the market now. It is such a huge task to start from scratch.

Basically a tyre maker will align themselves with whoever they consider is the best team for success. The teams will enjoy their supply of free tyres & if they win, then the tyre company will exploit every bit they can. By discounting tyres to privateers, it will enhance their exposure & for the privateer it means cheaper quality tyres of equal perfomance.

For next season, the situation is that everyone is now just a customer, adding to team budgets & I trust the price will not be cheap from Pirelli.

[MJW]

This thread has been getting a little "off track" what I wanted to highlight was that Michelin feel so strongly that they were done wrong by FIA and feel that they could win the appeal and have 2008 spec tyres ready and waiting.

[Helstar]

You didn't need to tell us that Michelin could make a more resilient and faster tyre. The 2005 season where Marcus and Petter has those hopeles Pirelli's is proof that Pirelli can't make a fast tyre for all conditions :)
Only Pirelli tarmac tyres were inferior back in 2005 compared to Michelin.

The idea of a controlled tyre, is that it doesnt matter if there faster or more resilient. My preference would be preferable if they were slower, and less resilient.... i.e... cars sliding.
Quote 100%. And since no mousse HARDEST tyres for no punctures. Harder tyres = slower cars, less grip, more sideways ... or not ?

I don't care whatever it is Pirelli or Michelin or something else. One tyre supplier is better IMHO.

[Daniel]

Do you not remember New Zealand 2005 and the Pirelli tyres falling apart Helstar? :)

[Livewireshock]

Do you not remember New Zealand 2005 and the Pirelli tyres falling apart Helstar? :)

That is a huge generalisation. Do you really believe that the control tyre presented is the same compound & construction as the tyre used at RallyNZ in 2005?

If you mean that Michelin as a tyre company is supremely a better tyre maker, you could draw the same long bow & point to their Indianapolis USGP 2005 catastrophic failures.

It matters not if it is Pirelli, Yokohama, Dunlop, Bridgestone or what ever, everyone will be on the same tyre.

The big reason that Michelin are appealing is simply because their branding will not be shown. Which tyre they use & if it is a better or not has no basis here. They are simply looking at the commercial exploitation that can make from this.

[Daniel]

Here we go again :mark:

It's 2003. You're Petter Solberg and you're in Australia and it's the final loop of stages, you're behind Sebastien and you really need to win this rally to keep your championship hopes alive. It starts raining heavily, Pirelli pull out the perfect tyre for the conditions and you win the rally. Then a few weeks later. You're Petter Solberg and you're in Corsica and it's the final loop of stages, you're behind waaaaaay Sebastien and you really need to win this rally to keep your championship hopes alive. It starts raining heavily, Pirelli pull out the perfect tyre for the conditions and you win the rally.

Then suddenly the rules change and Pirelli aren't allowed to bring 10 truckloads of tyres with a different tyre for each specific condition. They now have a limited variety of tyres and each tyre has to deal with a more varied set of conditions. Your Pirelli's aren't up to the job and neither are Gronholm's. You spend the whole year just scrapping for 2nd's and 3rd's.

Suddenly with the changes in rules which mean that tyres have to be more resilient to different temperatures and conditions Pirelli fell well behind Michelin. Now perhaps I'm very much wrong but the control tyres will have to cope with a variety of conditions and temperatures and Pirelli just won't be able to pull out their gravel tyre for 25-27 degrees celsius and medium gravel like they could have in 2003 which they did quite well........ they were so bad they withdrew for this year :mark: Not sure if that means anything to anyone but that's not the mark of quality for me :)

Pirelli better have sorted their issues or they're going to look mighty foolish when Petter, Marcus, Mikko, Atkinson, Sebastien and co come out and criticise them if the tyres aren't up to the job.

[Daniel]

That is a huge generalisation. Do you really believe that the control tyre presented is the same compound & construction as the tyre used at RallyNZ in 2005?

If you mean that Michelin as a tyre company is supremely a better tyre maker, you could draw the same long bow & point to their Indianapolis USGP 2005 catastrophic failures.

It matters not if it is Pirelli, Yokohama, Dunlop, Bridgestone or what ever, everyone will be on the same tyre.

The big reason that Michelin are appealing is simply because their branding will not be shown. Which tyre they use & if it is a better or not has no basis here. They are simply looking at the commercial exploitation that can make from this.
Michelin are out there to win :) The French have never gone out there to look "just as good" as everyone else. Chengh Shee Woo Fung Dungalung tyres could enter a control tyre in and be just as good as Michelin and what would that say for Michelin's image?

"We're as good as a 4th rate tyre manufacturer who uses 20 year old Michelin tread design (a lot of tyre manufacturers buy the right to produce old Michelin designs) on their tyres and a compound which is probably of a similar vintage?"

Not the image I'd want my company to whom branding is supremely important to be portraying to the world :mark:

[Livewireshock]

Michelin are out there to win :) The French have never gone out there to look "just as good" as everyone else. Chengh Shee Woo Fung Dungalung tyres could enter a control tyre in and be just as good as Michelin and what would that say for Michelin's image?

"We're as good as a 4th rate tyre manufacturer who uses 20 year old Michelin tread design (a lot of tyre manufacturers buy the right to produce old Michelin designs) on their tyres and a compound which is probably of a similar vintage?"

Not the image I'd want my company to whom branding is supremely important to be portraying to the world :mark:

Obviously the speed & performance will be very different for a control tyre than the current range of 'rally specific' tyres that are produced at the moment. In order to last longer distances & be made in larger quantities than current special tyre, they will be a totally different specification. You can not compare any proposed control tyre with the current WRC spec tyres, made by Michelin or anyone else.

Michelin are crying foul because they want every single WRC car branded with their image instead of Pirelli. That is of greater importance than the actual quality of their product. They are using the quality angle in an effort to reverse the FIA's decision & that is all.

Currently Pirelli has all the WRC bragging rights & Michelin has none. Commercially it is critical for Michelin to become the sole supplier, the standard of the tyre is a moot point, just as long they can change the FIA's mind.

[Daniel]

So Pirelli has proved that they had huge problems in the past with making a tyre to cope with varied conditions and you think it's not a problem at all?

In 2005 their tyres had to be built to endure different road conditions and temperatures and so on (funnily enough exactly what a control tyre needs to be able to do) and they failed miserably. I could forgive them for being a bit slow because it's still a level playing field. But the amount of time Petter came into a time control with a set of tyres that were worn through to the carcass in places was truly shameful and extremely dangerous.

[Camelopard]

You should stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking.

Oh well here we go with the personal insults, though I must admit its hardly a suprise coming from you!

Rally Review on SBS TV here in Australia a few ago had a segment on how BF Goodrich produces their tyres right from the latex harvested from the trees in Brazil.
The tryes were marked with the drivers name as they leave the factory. They do not just turn up and start dishing them out to all the teams without regard to some plan.

If you think that all the teams and drivers get the same specification tyres, then you are delusional.

[Camelopard]

You should stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking.

Oh well here we go again with the personal insults, though I must admit its hardly a suprise coming from you!

Rally Review on SBS TV here in Australia a few ago had a segment on how BF Goodrich produces their tyres right from when the latex is harvested from the trees in Brazil.

The tryes are marked with the drivers name when they leave the factory. Why would it be necesaary to do this if all the tyres are the same and the teams are treated equally?

[Daniel]

Oh well here we go with the personal insults, though I must admit its hardly a suprise coming from you!

Rally Review on SBS TV here in Australia a few ago had a segment on how BF Goodrich produces their tyres right from the latex harvested from the trees in Brazil.
The tryes were marked with the drivers name as they leave the factory. They do not just turn up and start dishing them out to all the teams without regard to some plan.

If you think that all the teams and drivers get the same specification tyres, then you are delusional.
Sure sure sure. It is also possible that these tyres are made for testing? Or that the story is indeed an old one? The quality of WRC journalism in Australia is not the best so that's quite possible. Before you try to argue that my home country is a hotbed of great WRC journalists I have a few things to say ...... John Smailes and the rest of meatheads at RPM represent the pinnacle of motorsport journalism in Australia and this says something about it. Do you have a youtube link to this mythical clip? :)

As has been stated so many times the tyres go into the truck and are all unmarked and checked over by the FIA and are then barcoded. I think they might spot a big chalk mark that says "Sebastien Loeb" :rolleyes:

[Camelopard]

Sure sure sure. It is also possible that these tyres are made for testing? Or that the story is indeed an old one? The quality of WRC journalism in Australia is not the best so that's quite possible. Before you try to argue that my home country is a hotbed of great WRC journalists I have a few things to say ...... John Smailes and the rest of meatheads at RPM represent the pinnacle of motorsport journalism in Australia and this says something about it. Do you have a youtube link to this mythical clip? :)

As has been stated so many times the tyres go into the truck and are all unmarked and checked over by the FIA and are then barcoded. I think they might spot a big chalk mark that says "Sebastien Loeb" :rolleyes:

It was an official WRC programme, a sort of filler in the off season I guess. Yes I do have a copy of it on DVD, I'd be happy to send it to you at no cost nor inconvenience to myself.

You can't help yourself can you, I make a comment about something on TV in Australia and you start bagging the local journalists. Just as an aside Channel 10 no longer broadcasts the WRC, SBS does.......... so you are bit out of whack with the RPM slight..........

[Brother John]

The tryes were marked with the drivers name as they leave the factory. .

cossie16 has also his eyes open! :up: wake up al the other specialists :p :

[Daniel]

It was an official WRC programme, a sort of filler in the off season I guess. Yes I do have a copy of it on DVD, I'd be happy to send it to you at no cost nor inconvenience to myself.

You can't help yourself can you, I make a comment about something on TV in Australia and you start bagging the local journalists. Just as an aside Channel 10 no longer broadcasts the WRC, SBS does.......... so you are bit out of whack with the RPM slight..........
I bagged the local journalists because they're rubbish. For gods sake. Do you expect some sort of "love-in" forum where we all go "oooh everything's all peachy and I think everything that has anything to do with the WRC is great" :mark:

I somehow doubt that Michelin would present evidence of it favouring drivers on a TV program that was going to be shown to millions. Those tyres that were made in the off season wouldn't be destined to be used on a special stage anyway.........

[Livewireshock]

So Pirelli has proved that they had huge problems in the past with making a tyre to cope with varied conditions and you think it's not a problem at all?

In 2005 their tyres had to be built to endure different road conditions and temperatures and so on (funnily enough exactly what a control tyre needs to be able to do) and they failed miserably. I could forgive them for being a bit slow because it's still a level playing field. But the amount of time Petter came into a time control with a set of tyres that were worn through to the carcass in places was truly shameful and extremely dangerous.

In the same year, 2005, Michelin failed to build a tyre to handle the cornering forces on the USGP leading to the biggest farcical grand prix ever.

It did not mean that Michelin we not capable of building a tyre for those purposes ever again. The shame of 2005 forced Michelin to improve themselves just as Pirelli most likely has improved their WRC tyre.

You make it sound as if Michelin are the only people in the world ever capable of making a WRC tyre.

No matter if Dunlop, Bridgestone or another company bid for & won the control tyre contract other than Pirelli, Michelin would still endeavour to overturn that decision to their favour.

[Daniel]

F1 and WRC are not the same. Apples and oranges....

[Livewireshock]

I bagged the local journalists because they're rubbish. For gods sake. Do you expect some sort of "love-in" forum where we all go "oooh everything's all peachy and I think everything that has anything to do with the WRC is great" :mark:

I somehow doubt that Michelin would present evidence of it favouring drivers on a TV program that was going to be shown to millions. Those tyres that were made in the off season wouldn't be destined to be used on a special stage anyway.........

Pull your head out of the sand. It is more than common knowledge than tyre companies specialise their tyres for individual rallies, individual drivers & specific to the car. That is why so much testing, research & development is done.

Michelin wants to show off it's technological expertise & the lengths it goes to acheive success. That is why they are happy to show it off on TV. The show does not show exactly the make up & technical data for the tyres in question. Similar tv reports have been shown about Bridgestone doing the same action in F1.

[Livewireshock]

F1 and WRC are not the same. Apples and oranges....

I am not saying they were the same. It just shows that even Michelin makes mistakes when it makes a specialist tyre.

[Helstar]

Daniel vs the world, omg xD

As always, I think the truth is in the middle. I don't think Michelin are doing specific 'best performance' tyres for somebody, but also they are not the Tyre Gods and Pirelli or any other manu the shame of the tyre world.

And in any case, we will see next year if Loeb can win rallies with Pirelli (and I can't see why not).
But if it won't happen, I look forward for somebody saying 'Citroen are getting worst tyres on purpose' ... lol kidding eh ;p

[Daniel]

Pull your head out of the sand. It is more than common knowledge than tyre companies specialise their tyres for individual rallies, individual drivers & specific to the car. That is why so much testing, research & development is done.

Michelin wants to show off it's technological expertise & the lengths it goes to acheive success. That is why they are happy to show it off on TV. The show does not show exactly the make up & technical data for the tyres in question. Similar tv reports have been shown about Bridgestone doing the same action in F1.
Yes but the rules don't allow for special brew tyres just for Seb and crap for the rest. It's simply not allowed and it's heavily policed. It's silly to say that Michelin is hated in F1 by the FIA but that the FIA would just happily let them give Sebastien the best tyres and give the rest rubbish :rolleyes:

My point is that Michelin haven't put a foot wrong when it comes to making tyres for WRCars and Pirelli have.

I don't think Pirelli tyres are the worst tyres in the world :) I quite happily had some on my Peugeot. I just think that if Pirelli were that bad (and they were) back then and left the WRC in 2006 then how do we know they're going to do the job? I simply think Michelin have a great track record in the WRC which simply can't be ignored especially when contrasted with the performance and longevity of the Pirelli's.

Helstar, do you think Gigi might have had a chance of still being in the WRC if not for the fact that his major sponsor (Pirelli) wasn't giving him great tyres? Food for thought ;)

and yes Loeb will still win on Pirelli's :D

[Helstar]

Helstar, do you think Gigi might have had a chance of still being in the WRC if not for the fact that his major sponsor (Pirelli) wasn't giving him great tyres?
Two questions because I don't understand the tone of your phrase

1) Are you saying Gigi takes better tyres from Pirelli compared to other cars with same manu tyres or ... ?

2) Are you talking of the past or the future ? ;p

[A.F.F.]

I think the word GREAT sails on a sarcastic sea.

[Daniel]

Two questions because I don't understand the tone of your phrase

1) Are you saying Gigi takes better tyres from Pirelli compared to other cars with same manu tyres or ... ?

2) Are you talking of the past or the future ? ;p
I'm saying that if Gigi had Michelin's on and he was as good as some of you guys feel then maybe he'd still be in the WRC :) I doubt Pirelli will sponsor him to come back when the only tyres on WRCars are theirs :mark:

[Helstar]

I doubt Pirelli will sponsor him to come back when the only tyres on WRCars are theirs :mark:
Well it's the opposite I hope ... Pirelli might ask to "somebody" to have his pupil in a car for the whole 2008 ;p ?

[Daniel]

Well it's the opposite I hope ... Pirelli might ask to "somebody" to have his pupil in a car for the whole 2008 ;p ?
I doubt it but we'll see :)

[DonJippo]

Well it's the opposite I hope ... Pirelli might ask to "somebody" to have his pupil in a car for the whole 2008 ;p ?
With all the publicity they already get as being single tyre supplier I doupt they do that...but then again you never know.

[Tomi]

With all the publicity they already get as being single tyre supplier I doupt they do that...but then again you never know.

Subaru might, about the serious teams i dont belive they would.

[Bristecom]

American team (Ford) drive American Tyres (BF Goodrich)
BFGoodrich may be an American brand but it is entirely owned by Michelin so they’re really French tyres.


That is a huge generalisation. Do you really believe that the control tyre presented is the same compound & construction as the tyre used at RallyNZ in 2005?

If you mean that Michelin as a tyre company is supremely a better tyre maker, you could draw the same long bow & point to their Indianapolis USGP 2005 catastrophic failures.
Yeah, you can’t generalize a company based on one fault. No tyre manufacturer is perfect. For example, an almighty standardized Bridgestone F1 tyre on Lewis Hamilton’s McLaren randomly blew this weekend, which lost him the race but nobody blamed Bridgestone. However, when a tyre blows during a tyre war, everyone points fingers.


My point is that Michelin haven't put a foot wrong when it comes to making tyres for WRCars and Pirelli have.

Helstar, do you think Gigi might have had a chance of still being in the WRC if not for the fact that his major sponsor (Pirelli) wasn't giving him great tyres? Food for thought
Good point. I have been disappointed with Pirelli many times but rarely with Michelin. Even when I wanted Pirelli-shod cars to win, I came to the harsh realization that they were simply inferior to Michelin/BFGoodrich in most conditions.

It is true that tyres are much too important and lowering their variation will bring fiercer competition amongst teams and drivers. However, I liked watching the tyre manufacturers compete just as much as the teams and drivers. I respect Michelin for always wanting to compete. They never wish to be a sole supplier. And usually, their tyres bring huge advantages to the teams that use them. I kind of feel sorry for them being kicked out of the WRC after dominating it for so long. They just want to compete but nobody will let them anymore. The way I see this is Bridgestone and Pirelli knew they didn't have a chance against Michelin and opted to be the sole supplier. Michelin has every right to stay but apparently, Pirelli has given the FIA the better offer.

[GigiGalliNo1]

American team (Ford) drive American Tyres (BF Goodrich)

Ford: American
M-Sport: British Run
Michelin: French
BF-Goodrich: World Market

Ford WRC Team: 100% British with some Fins, and now Middle Eastern people etc. :)

[AndyRAC]

The way I see it is that Michelin lost the 'contract' because of nothing to do with Rallying. Indy 2005 is the cause, the F1A haven't forgiven them for that. Which in my view is petty in the extreme. So once again F1 has an influence on WRC.