The Generation Gap

[Gibbsy]

Looking at the ages of the varying drivers, i feel they can be sorted into four distinct generations.

Golden oldies (1): Barrichello, Coulthard, Wurz.

Closer to the end than the start (2): Webber, Trulli, Fisichella, Ralf, Heidfeld and soon to be joined by Bourdais.

In their Prime (3): Raikonnen, Alonso, Button, Kovalainen, Massa, Davidson.

Up and comers (4): Hamilton (though he is pretty much already "there"), Rosberg, Sutil (apparently quite a lot better than his car), Vettel and Kubica.

*only drivers that i consider significant or potentially significant have been listed.

If you divide the grid in this way some interesting questions are raised...

Which driver is the pick of each generation?

Can generation 1 even dream of a championship? if not should they stay in F1?

How many years left do generation 2 have as serious contenders?

If you were a top tema looking for a dirver and Alonso, raikonnen and Hamilton were taken, which generation would be looking towards?

Do any of generation 2 have legitimate Championship aspirations?

How long now until gen 3 start feeling the heat from gen 4? (might have to pretend Hamilton doesnt exist to answer this one...


Which is the weakest generation?


... have fun.

[ChrisS]

Fisichella is older and Trulli about the same age as Wurz so maybe you should have them in the 1st group

Bourdais is the same age as Raikonnen so why is one closer to the end and the other in his prime?

[tha_jackal]

Heidfeld close to the end? Huh? :confused:

[Hondo]

Generation 1? No championships there but they stay because they love the work. it pays the bills, and people still hire them because their employers feel like they are getting a certain amount of value beyond the winning of championships.

Generation 2? Webber, Heidfeld, and Bourdais have not had a fair shot with a decent car, so I wouldn't write any of the 3 off yet. An argument could be made that Heidfeld is actually delivering performance above the car this season.

Generation 3? I don't know that Button or Davidson will ever be able to deliver the goods without an overwhelmingly superior car. Massa still has problems with traffic.

Generation 4? I'm ready to see more of them. It's refreshing to see guys, without a chance of winning (except Hamilton), out there trying to win. The older dogs could learn something from that.

[truefan72]

I don't even know where to begin pointing out the flaws

Where is Sato?
Kovaleinen in his prime but Hamilton not? ( both are up and commers IMO)
Heidfeld on his way out?

wurz is 33, Fisi 34, Trulli is 33


I could go on, but I'll stop


btw

wurz has 13 points this season, how many does Rosberg have?

[leopard]

It may depend on how do we define the said generation.
Aging is usually classified by age of the driver, although it doesn't always describe the curve of performance of each driver, such-and-such driver may come to its prime time earlier or later than others.

Hamilton is just stepping his first season, but considering he drives superbly we may categorize him at his prime time.
Massa despite being in his prime age, I doubt he is going to care enough on challenging any title. :D

after all, good effort.

[Gibbsy]

I don't even know where to begin pointing out the flaws

Where is Sato?
Kovaleinen in his prime but Hamilton not? ( both are up and commers IMO)
Heidfeld on his way out?

wurz is 33, Fisi 34, Trulli is 33


I could go on, but I'll stop


btw

wurz has 13 points this season, how many does Rosberg have?

Sorry everyone, didnt realise that every post on an internet forum had to be so carefully researched.

Wurz is in the top group because it seems like he has been hanging around F1 forever. Likewise DC and Rubens. It also seems likely that he is a stop gap driver for Williams and I expect this to be his last year as a full time F1 driver. Yes he has more points than Rosberg, but there is no denying that he is 1 - 10 in qualifying against Nico which is a massive gap in terms of pace. Remember that Rosberg got towelled up in qualifying by Webber last year also.

On this basis i feel you could make an argument for Ralf and Trulli to be in the top group and Heidfeld and Webber to be classed as in their prime. Seb Bourdais was a genuine mistake ( i thought he was 31). He should be in the same group as Raikonnen and Alonso.

None of that matters though. The thread was supposed to be an attempt to group the drivers by the stage that their careers are at and to compare and contrast the groups with thought provoking discussion. nevermind.

[Valve Bounce]

You forgot Yama!! :(

[Rollo]

I'm willing to lay a fiver that no-one mentioned in Gen 1 or 2 will win another GP. The passing of Schumacher (it's not like he's dead) was a bit when when Mansell, Prost and Senna all stopped at about the same time.

Schumacher, Irvine, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill, Villeneuve were all the stars of their class. We saw the extreme dominance of Ferrari (and to a degree that continues) and in 2006/7 that class was usurped by the new boys. The three that are immediately capable of taking the title are concentrated into two teams. I think that the fly in the ointment is Hamilton who wouldn't have been expected quite yet.

I want to know how long it will be before Bruno and Nico start making their presence felt.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm willing to lay a fiver that no-one mentioned in Gen 1 or 2 will win another GP. The passing of Schumacher (it's not like he's dead) was a bit when when Mansell, Prost and Senna all stopped at about the same time.

Schumacher, Irvine, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill, Villeneuve were all the stars of their class. We saw the extreme dominance of Ferrari (and to a degree that continues) and in 2006/7 that class was usurped by the new boys. The three that are immediately capable of taking the title are concentrated into two teams. I think that the fly in the ointment is Hamilton who wouldn't have been expected quite yet.

I want to know how long it will be before Bruno and Nico start making their presence felt.

You are on. When all these drivers retire without one of them ever winning a future GP, I will donate the equivalent of a fiver to the Salvation Army. However, in the even that one of these drivers do win a race, no matter how much of a fluke in the rain or sfety car or whatever situation, then you donate a fiver to the Salvation Army.

Just as an aside, I think that any of the drivers in Gen 2 can fluke a win in the future.

[jens]

It's hard to put drivers into generations like that and to see whether they have passed it, are on their prime or whatever. Every driver is a different individual and has also different age for deeds.

Some drivers need some time (plus wait for their chance in a strong machinery) to become serious top contenders. So many guys have achieved their best results in their 30s. It might look that such era is over by now, but I'd not say that. NH and MW are 30 and it looks like their best results are still to come as they are finally gradually getting into better cars.

Others have been very successful in the beginning, but later become less impressive - also as a driver. Sometimes it looks like DC and JV had their best racing years in their late 20s. DC started struggling, when the new one-lap quali-system was introduced (2003), JV more or less in the same season. They were 31 then? So, on the contrary to NH and MW, their careers appeared to be basically over by the age of 30.

Kovalainen is 3 years older than Hamilton and unlike LH, has also needed more races to show his strength in F1 than just one. But if we didn't know their ages, we couldn't say that they were in any way different as drivers. Both on their debut seasons - LH having a top car, but HK is also gradually improving and like LH might have a promising future.

[Dzeidzei]

Looking at the ages of the varying drivers, i feel they can be sorted into four distinct generations.


This is just a waste of time. You cannot put drivers in groups based in their age. Was Schumi a golden oldie last year?

The only thing that matters is what a driver can deliver. People seem to want to hire a guy like DC for some value he has (which is totally beyond me, but what do I know), they still regards Button to be a potential champion (maybe, but not in this series), etc.

But just a few comments: Heikki has lately been consistently quicker than Fisi and has probably ended Fisi´s career at Renault. Nico has killed Wurz speedwise (Wurz only lives by his 3rd place in Montreal). Its true that Webber was quicker than Nico last year, but then Nico was a rookie. Id bet Ron Dennis´s balls that Nico is quicker now.

And next year at McL he´ll be able to proove it, just wait and see.

[raikk]

Button is in his Prime? :s :

[Yelnats]

I think the list of drivers carreers should be catagorized by 'carreer stages'.

Catagorizing by age alone isn't terribly significant as some drivers reach carreer maturity at early ages (Alonso, Fittipaldi) whereas most drivers do not (Fangio and the rest.). Age is insignificant when compared with motivation and opportunity.

[Kata89]

I think a driver is in his prime at 31-32 years - because I don't think age affects their performance at 31, but they're better than they were at 26 because of much more experience

[aryan]

Sorry everyone, didnt realise that every post on an internet forum had to be so carefully researched.



Fair enough.

Just wondering where you might have put MH in 1997. Past his time?

I like to think of drivers as individuals, with differing characteristics. I can see a WDC in any of the groups you mentioned (RB and DC still might win! :D ) and sore losers in all of them as well.

[truefan72]

Sorry everyone, didnt realise that every post on an internet forum had to be so carefully researched.

Wurz is in the top group because it seems like he has been hanging around F1 forever. Likewise DC and Rubens. It also seems likely that he is a stop gap driver for Williams and I expect this to be his last year as a full time F1 driver. Yes he has more points than Rosberg, but there is no denying that he is 1 - 10 in qualifying against Nico which is a massive gap in terms of pace. Remember that Rosberg got towelled up in qualifying by Webber last year also.

On this basis i feel you could make an argument for Ralf and Trulli to be in the top group and Heidfeld and Webber to be classed as in their prime. Seb Bourdais was a genuine mistake ( i thought he was 31). He should be in the same group as Raikonnen and Alonso.

None of that matters though. The thread was supposed to be an attempt to group the drivers by the stage that their careers are at and to compare and contrast the groups with thought provoking discussion. nevermind.


Hmm let me see...
1. Are the drivers competing for Quali or for the race and points?

2. I think that the grouping should be done by F1 total laps ( years is a bvit misleading drivers may sit out periods as test drivers, or only drive for hapf a ytear etc) of you arte going on the basis of "over the hill" . Certain younger driver sure seem to have been in F1 for a while

It did provoke good discussion :)