Who will drive at McLaren next year? [Archive]

Valve Bounce

6th August 2007, 01:48

"This town ain't big enough for the two of us."

I know there are several posts in the different threads alluding to this question, but surely everyone must be wondering if the two current drivers can remain in this dysfunctional, albeit fast team.

During this whole debacle, Ron Dennis has severely embarrased himself by blaming Lewis Hamilton publicly for the debacle, although his behaviour immediately after Q3 frog marching Alonso's boyfriend from the pit lane suggests otherwise. Then Ron comes with a convoluted spin to the FIA who promptly tells him they don't believe (his lies) him, and they throw him out of points earned during the race and bans him from the podium ceremony. Now all this has damaged not only the McLaren brand but also the Mercedes brand. To make it worse, the exchange of words between Lewis Hamilton and Ron Dennis has become a big joke in discussion forums. All this coming from the ongoing embarrasment of Trudygate (Stepnygate/Coughlangate).

Can the two drivers show enough respect for each other to compete for the rest of the year without fighting against each other? let alone another season? and will they refrain from running each other off the track?

And who will depart if one of them does?
Lewis Hamilton has McLaren in his blood, so Ron claims, but he is paying Lewis peanuts compared with Alonso. Alonso won't even speak to Ron, but converses through his boyfriend. I am sure there are other teams which will gladly have Lewis Hamilton in their team with a hefty payrise, and possibly most will also be happy to have Alonso talents if not his tantrums. Maybe Flav might want him back.
So what do you guys think?

jso1985

6th August 2007, 01:58

[b]...marching Alonso's boyfriend from the pit lane...

very mature...

Unless RD manages to put both drivers ego lower, I'm seeing Alonso back at Renault next year unfortunately

N. Jones

6th August 2007, 03:52

very mature...

Unless RD manages to put both drivers ego lower, I'm seeing Alonso back at Renault next year unfortunately

Yeah, I feel the same way. I wonder if Alonso is thinking he should go back to the comfortability of Renault....

Hawkmoon

6th August 2007, 04:14

There might not be a place for Alonso at Renault. Assuming they would take him back, and I'm thinking they probably would, do they have a spot for him? There are reports that Piquet Jnr has signed a deal for a 2008 race drive with Renault so if Alonso were to return it would mean either dumping Kovalainen or dumping Piquet before he even had a chance to race the car.

I don't think Ferrari or BMW are an option which leaves the midfield teams and I doubt that Alonso would be happy with a Toyota or Williams drive.

So whilst I think that McLaren could easily find a replacement for Alonso, I don't think it will be that easy for Alonso to find a replacement for McLaren.

Hondo

6th August 2007, 04:21

I think Renault would love to have Alonso back. There's not a doubt in my mind they are being polite to Fisi in their press statements, but believe their car and their team would be doing much better if Alonso was driving one of the cars.

tinchote

6th August 2007, 04:45

Shalafi

6th August 2007, 05:03

Valve Bounce

6th August 2007, 07:04

I just watched Dr Phil today and I think there lies the answer for McLaren. Ron Dennis, Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton should seek the counselling and help of Dr Phil, and maybe Fernando should bring along his massager for good measure. I am sure Dr Phil could give some very good advice, counselling and help to all of them and bring them together for a group hug.

That would be the best way forward for the rest of this year, and if it works, then why not for next year also!

I don't see any other way forward for this lot.

leopard

6th August 2007, 07:51

The whole image of McLaren can't be measured solely by the debacle espionage case that remains unknown which is which to be at fault and right. For the long season backwards they have conservatively built image that every driver has the same chance on winning as long as having performance they are convinced with, and that conservative strategy might have hampered team from getting any better result in the championship.

Actually the key man is Alonso himself, It doesn't mean he has to go somewhere else, there is not any team which totally comfortable to stay at. Although it isn't easy, try to manage the ego, read reality in wider eyes and enjoy the race in high spirit that the title is widely open, is the best solution to prevent him from doing any maneuver may prompt the team in disadvantageous.

In the event the Ferrari's door opens, I may suggest him to go there, BMW is secondary option. Driving in teams other than it may put him in the stage where he has to struggle more. I doubt RD will let LH goes elsewhere, he invested him since he was 6, IIRC and CMIIW. :)

wmcot

6th August 2007, 08:00

wmcot

6th August 2007, 08:04

Hamilton and Button, all english team... :D

RD dont let Hamilton go, he wants his own prodigy to become english Schumacher and will forgive LH because he is young and will hopefully learn some respect.

I'm sure Button's ego would just love that!

I know RD won't let LH go, but I think LH is starting to listen to others who will tell him he is worth much more than Ron is paying him. His eyes have been opened to the wider world of F1 teams out their with looser checkbooks than McLaren. Even Schumacher left Benetton after winning 2 championships to look for greener (as in money) pastures.

donKey jote

6th August 2007, 09:44

Alonso's boyfriend
LINK PLEASE !! :bounce: :dozey:
Next you´ll be droning on about Koolaid :D

Depending on your coverage (did you actually see the frogmarch? ), RD threw his headphones because he was so pissed off at Lewis´ foul language and he only grabbed Alonso´s trainer/whatever because he was closest :laugh:

fandango

6th August 2007, 09:55

I think the only team Alonso would go to would be Ferrari, which would mean partnering Raikkonen. That wouldn't be a big surprise.

But at the same time, I think in the intra-team battle, if not the WDC points table, Alonso scored a significant victory over Hamilton. Lewis no longer has the "I'm just a nice lucky kid who happens to be faster than a double world champion" image. Now the kid gloves are off. Both drivers were childish, but whereas Alonso acted against Lewis, Hamilton's actions were ultimately against the team.

Alonso's not happy with Ron, but he seems to get on okay in the team. Hamilton has basically said "I'll do what suits me first and foremost" to his team, even if he has now supposedly cleared the air. When you look at their salaries, and Hamilton's swelling ego, I'd say Lewis would be the one to go. If I were Massa I'd be nervous now. But in the end, I think McLaren will have the number 1 car next year.

ArrowsFA1

6th August 2007, 10:03

Alonso's future in doubt (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61422)

McLaren expressed hope world champion Fernando Alonso will complete his multi-year contract with the team, amid growing speculations that the Spaniard is looking to leave the outfit at the end of this season

All rumours of course :dozey:

Donney

6th August 2007, 10:14

I think Hamilton will stay and Alonso will leave, don't know where though but I'd like him to go to BMW to do a Renault with them.

Maybe RD should go since he does not seem able to properly manage the team.

ArrowsFA1

6th August 2007, 10:46

Maybe RD should go since he does not seem able to properly manage the team.
For a man who leads the team that is leading the WCC, and whose drivers are 1-2 in the WDC, he's not doing badly, and that's in addition to what he's achieved with McLaren since 1980.

I really don't think Ron Dennis can be blamed for the situation he finds himself in. No-one predicted that Hamilton would perform the way he has this year, least of all Alonso who expected to be leading the McLaren team.

Alonso appears to be reacting the same way Nelson Piquet did when faced with Nigel Mansell in 1986/7 :dozey:

DonnieDarco

6th August 2007, 10:57

BDunnell

6th August 2007, 11:00

For a man who leads the team that is leading the WCC, and whose drivers are 1-2 in the WDC, he's not doing badly, and that's in addition to what he's achieved with McLaren since 1980.

I really don't think Ron Dennis can be blamed for the situation he finds himself in. No-one predicted that Hamilton would perform the way he has this year, least of all Alonso who expected to be leading the McLaren team.

Alonso appears to be reacting the same way Nelson Piquet did when faced with Nigel Mansell in 1986/7 :dozey:

I think you are right on all counts there.

donKey jote

6th August 2007, 11:11

Sorry Donks ;) :D
no probs ruby :kiss: :D
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

F1MAN2007

6th August 2007, 11:29

I don't see Alonso in Mclaren next season. He has 2 options now, one with Renault (where he will find all he is missing in Mclaren) or in BMW (team with future and he can do a renault there like someone said above).

Alonso jumping ship, automatically Lewis will get more than $ 25 milions dollars for his contract (more than what Ferrari is proposing him today) so he can stay at Mclaren otherwise both drivers moving, for sure RD will F****swivel!!!

JovialJooles

6th August 2007, 11:31

Anyone fancy giving me odds for Fernando in a Ferrari next year?

I'm surprised Mr Todt hasn't already suggested it. :D

F1MAN2007

6th August 2007, 11:51

Anyone fancy giving me odds for Fernando in a Ferrari next year?

I'm surprised Mr Todt hasn't already suggested it. :D

Unless he has changed his mind, otherwise Alonso said he will never drive for Ferrari. But rumours are saying that Ferrari is chasing Lewis

Valve Bounce

6th August 2007, 11:59

Renault has Fisi and Heiki. When you consider what Fisi has been doing for hte past 3 years, it doesn't stack up to much. Granted he has been fast on occasions, but Alonso was definitely #1 there and Flav made no secret of that. In fact, I still can't understand why Alonso left Renault. If Alonso replaces Fisi or eve Heiki, he will definitelt be #1 there and there won't be this swapping of who comes in when during Q3 - Alonso will be favoured whatever the fuel strategy may be.

BMW has Heidfeld and Kubica. Rumours have been going round all year that Nick wants/will be leaving. However, a swap there may not give him a clear #1 as Kubica has been a surprise there and is very fast all the time. I could see Mercedes being happy with Heidfeld coming to McLaren just the same.

Ferrari won't cough up Kimi, especially since he is performing better with each race. Massa isn't that slow either, and if Ferrari can get their drivers to work well together, having Alonso muscle his way into the team might prove disruptive.

I can't see Alonso agreeing to go to any of the other teams. But I really don't see Alonso remaining at McLaren unless there is a quantum attitude improvement by him. Not talking to his team mate only disrupts the entire team, and won't endear him to anyone at Mclaren. In fact, I just wonder what his own team's mechanics think of his shenanigans last weekend - they worked very hard and the team must feel they were robbed of a podium by his antics, not to mention the WCC points.

Hawkmoon

6th August 2007, 12:02

I think Ferrari would be making a mistake in chasing Hamilton. They have the makings of a very strong line-up with Kimi and Massa. Kimi is quicker than Hamilton and Massa is the perfect foil to keep the Finn sharp. Kimi should be the focus of their championship challenge for a good few years to come.

Forget Hamilton and Alonso. They have a damn near perfect line-up now.

pino

6th August 2007, 12:03

Unless he has changed his mind, otherwise Alonso said he will never drive for Ferrari. But rumours are saying that Ferrari is chasing Lewis

It is Ferrari who have to change mind...not Alonso ;)

COD

6th August 2007, 12:05

Maybe Alonso and Kovalainen will swich seats. McLaren would get rid of the crybaby and McLaren would get another talented driver with a years experience on F1 + Heikki would have a better car.

Valve Bounce

6th August 2007, 12:09

It is Ferrari who have to change mind...not Alonso ;)

You had me confused at first, but I finally realised what you are saying. Very good.

But, is Ferrari really chasing Alonso or is all this just rumours circulating since Q3? Maybe Alonso's massager is looking to Ferrari for a pitpass :p :

Valve Bounce

6th August 2007, 12:12

Maybe Alonso and Kovalainen will swich seats. McLaren would get rid of the crybaby and McLaren would get another talented driver with a years experience on F1 + Heikki would have a better car.

I think that if Alonso left McLaren, there would be a queue of talented drivers wanting to drive for Ron Dennis. I see Nick Heidfeld, Mark Webber, Kubica, Heiki, all chasing the vacant seat. Even bunsen.

VkmSpouge

6th August 2007, 13:02

I think they'll both be at McLaren next year.

Robinho

6th August 2007, 13:33

Hamilton and Alonso will stay at McLaren knocking several shades out of each other for a while yet.

why would Alonso go back to Renault. their time is over, he will not be able to win thetre. the only options would be Ferrari or maybe BMW, and i reckon they'll be full up for a while yet, and at either Alonso probably wouldn't get No1 treatment.

Hamilton and Alonso maky not like each other much right now, but they have a mutual repesct for each others abilities, all they have to do is woprk tegether, not be best buddies, and at Mclaren they will, in all likelihood, both get a chance to win titles.

this will blow over and the 2 intensley competitve and very talented drivers will carry on trying to put one over on each other, but both will now be expected not to let anything like this weekend happen again, or they'll be out - simple

Roamy

6th August 2007, 14:50

I think Alonso is all but gone and rightly so. He really got screwed this weekend. As soon as the Championship in finished he will bolt. Next year with NO TC he will have a good chance to rebound at Renault. Remember as far as I know Renault still have TAD and now he can play a big factor. Alonso won't go to Ferrari or BMW. Williams is on the move up and could be a option.

pino

6th August 2007, 14:53

If I were RD I would give a chance to Jarno :D

Madmonk

6th August 2007, 15:49

I like the intrasquad rivalry. It reminds me of the Prost/Senna days of 1988 and 1989. I hope it continues in 2008. But if it doesn't, I predict a blockbuster swap of Heidfeld and Alonso.

McLaren - Hamilton & Heidfeld
Ferrari - Raikkonen & Massa
BMW - Alonso & Kubica
Renault - Kovalainen & Piquet
Williams - Rosberg & Glock
Red Bull - Coulthard & Webber
Toyota - Trulli & Nakajima
Honda - Button & Barrichello
Super Aguri - Sato & Rossiter
Toro Rosso - Vettel & Bourdais
Spyker - Sutil & Van Der Garde/Fauzy/Yamamoto/Karthikeyan
Prodrive - R. Schumacher & Davidson

mrpro2005

6th August 2007, 15:58

I think Alonso and lewis will be there next year

PSfan

6th August 2007, 16:47

I also believe McLeran's line-up is gonna be the sam next year, as I'm not fully convinced this driver feud is as bad as we're made out to believe.

A quick look how the drivers re-acted to Qualifying still leaves me scratching my head. I hadn't realised until watching the replay on windtunnel last night, but Lewis was qued up behind Alonso well before the lollypop was raised. He essentially went out on track for no reason, and wasted fuel on a lap that would have been to slow to receive his fuel credit for, so of course he would be pissed off enough to yell some words that would make a sailor blush. However the next day... somehow it became his fault, and he apologised for not following team orders?!?

Now look at Alonso's response... all smug during the post qualifying interview, and before one could even suggest he was given preferred treatment, like an automated message Alonso comes out with the "I'm not British and the team likes him better" song and dance...

Ron... I'm still not buying it. My prediction for the rest of the season is... Hamilton will not lead Alonso by more then 9pts , and if he does, Alonso will claw most of the lead back the following race.

Alonso will take the lead in the championship, probably within the final 3 races, and win his 3rd championship.

N. Jones

6th August 2007, 17:08

With the current situation, although there are arguments in favour of both drivers departing the team, I would say that the one most likely to leave is LH. After all, any team would offer him way more money than he is currently making. He won't settle for a midfield team, but there could still be a spot in Ferrari for him, or even BMW. Stranger things have happened in F1.

I've thought about that too - we spend all of our time talking about Alonso leaving because of Lewis' relationship with McLaren; but we have just witnessed that Lewis wants to WIN, regardless of what the team wants.

So, maybe it's LH who leaves. With the rumor that Piquet Jr. has signed to race for Renault next season; does that leave McLaren and Alonso looking at Fisi for next season? He is the perfect #2 for FA and a guy who is not as aggressive as LH...

Priorat

6th August 2007, 18:37

Well, FA says he setups the car and LH benefits from it so it is easy. FA stays as test driver at McLaren with LH and Paffet as drivers.
Otherwise he must go to NASCAR like the other F1 drivers that got angry because they were outperformed by their teammates

markabilly

6th August 2007, 20:39

The team doing quite well without a true leader is something called.....and what would put them over the top?

BMW
No real hotshoe

If I ran BMW I would jump at the chance to hire FA and I would have me a WDC for sure....

On the other hand, if I were mercedes (and not RD) it would be "LH, go swivel yourself" with all this talking...we just do not need that kind of image, it would hurt our sales that go primarly to doctors lawyers upper level corporate types of the conservative business world, and we could afford to lose the rapper market

Besides FA should not go there (to ferrari), apparently they do not have gas gauges in their cars...but if he did, and he then blocked out Kimi, he could say that "I was calulating the amount of gas put in my car"

And the FIA would accept that excuse, with a cryptic note: well, someone should......

(How do you know when drving a ferrari when it is time to pit? When the engine sputters and stops...)

But because of money, fame and glory, RD will never let them go...JPM neither of them are (atleast that is what i think about LH and FA based on present info)

gm99

6th August 2007, 21:25

does that leave McLaren and Alonso looking at Fisi for next season? He is the perfect #2 for FA and a guy who is not as aggressive as LH...

Ron Dennis is a bit wary of giving a ride to an Italian - the memory of all the pukka MP-4s that Andrea de Cesaris destroyed in the 1981 season is still too painful ;) (no Italian has driven for McLaren since, unless I'm very much mistaken).

Come to think of it, Spanish-speaking drivers may soon join the Italians on RD's black list, after his recent experiences with Montoya and Alonso - poor old Pedro de la Rosa ;)

Garry Walker

6th August 2007, 21:40

So, maybe it's LH who leaves. With the rumor that Piquet Jr. has signed to race for Renault next season; does that leave McLaren and Alonso looking at Fisi for next season? He is the perfect #2 for FA and a guy who is not as aggressive as LH...

Ron will never hire Fisi, he is mentally far too weak.

tinchote

6th August 2007, 21:55

(no Italian has driven for McLaren since, unless I'm very much mistaken).

Unless you want to count Michael Andretti. In any case it probably only strenghtens your argument ;) :D

Buzz Lightyear

6th August 2007, 22:34

Few points to dicuss...

Vodafone will pay 'anything' to keep Hamiltion?

Anybody condiser if Alonso wins 3 champs in a row, he might retire?

McLaren need Hamilton, more than Hamilton needs McLaren?

Maybe Lewis can set a car up better than Alonso

Is Alonso really that ultra-special? Or was Renaults moving ballest making him look special?

Could Lewis get out of McLaren contract, even if he wanted to?

Everybody is scared of Kimi on his day. Alonso will not jump from the frying pan into the fire. Is BMW his only option?

Could Vodafone follow Lewis to Ferrari?

If Alonso moves to BMW and gets beaten by Hienfield, is his career over?

raikk

7th August 2007, 00:40

Mclaren 2008:
Lewis Hamilton
Kimi Raikkonen..

you heard it here first ;)

keysersoze

7th August 2007, 02:39

Like a few others who have posted here recently, I'm thinking Alonso stays, not Lewis.

And because I'm a fan of Giancarlo's, I'm also inclined to think that signing him may be a great thing for McLaren. Consider the reasons:

1. It's very clear that McLaren takes a big risk in having two top drawer drivers.

2. They have a ton of money already invested in Fernando. I don't believe they have Lewis on a retainer for next season.

3. Fernando and Giancarlo have been mates before with great success--two WDCs and a manufacture's champsionship, which Ron covets more than the other.

4. Giancarlo is universally beloved by all his former bosses and their teams. And even though he is clearly not a top line driver his team respects him a great deal. IN other words, he is very loyal and can keep the mechanics happy, and we have recently seen the McLaren boys made extremely unhappy.

5. If McLaren and Renault pull a switch, and Lewis goes to Renault, I think that Ron will still feel he has a better overall driver line-up than Renault.

6. Ron may even think he would arguably have a better line-up than Ferrari; after all, GF bested Massa when the two were at Sauber. And it seems that, since Michael has left, Ferrari has rediscovered how to screw up (and thereby occasionally leave points on the table).

7. I think Fisichella would do it for less than 5 million a year, maybe for as little as 3M. IMO Hamilton, who may go into '08 as the reigning champion with 2 or 3 more wins, would ask for twice that.

Valve Bounce

7th August 2007, 02:55

This link is posted in the Alonso and McLaren thread but I thought I'd reproduce it here as it is relevant to the discussion here.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article2211563.ece

markabilly

7th August 2007, 03:36

Regardless of who is or is not the better driver, RD would look real foolish to drop the one with mclaren in his blood, the one of ten years investment, the one true hope of all britain for a wdc, a rookie wdc no less...and if he was so inclined, it would be long after this season is over.....he would just be flat out admitting that "I goofed" by letting LH go and keeping the recycled one known as FA at mclaren

No way...and if he did, all of Britain would rise up in arms agsinst him......so RD will privately and publicily support LH to the fullest (except as necssary to avoid sanction)

And FA may not see the carrot and the stick for what it is, and as they say, hope springs eternal in the heart of man...

LH will have to self-destruct totally and completely, and RD will do everything to prevent that...now if enough happens later after the season is over, who is to say, as in Watergate, follow the money to know the answer to that one....

leopard

7th August 2007, 03:40

My tip McLaren 2008:
1. Lewis Hamilton
2. Someone else Ron Dennis' boy

The series no need recycled driver ;) :D

Timber

7th August 2007, 05:29

Hamilton and Button, all english team... :D

Alonso back to Renault to drive with Heikki. Hamilton is quicker than Alonso and will only get better. Alonsos ego is so big that he cant handle a faster team-mate. And he goes back to peaceful Renault only to find out that all the time improving Heikki will be supertough to beat next year. ;)

RD dont let Hamilton go, he wants his own prodigy to become english Schumacher and will forgive LH because he is young and will hopefully learn some respect.

i think that Alonso is quicker the LH and he also know how to set up a car ...

Timber

7th August 2007, 05:35

I've been reading that other teams are attempting to cash in on the whole debacle by trying to persuade Alonso to sign with them. Are they insane?? :D

What happens if he goes to another team and gets his backside kicked by that driver too?? More toys thrown out of his pram, handbags at dawn?

Lets not forget Alonso threw a major wobbly at Renualt too, before he left!

I think Alonso is a very talented driver, but I'm starting to think that if I were a team leader I'd not consider him worth all the hassle. Sorry Donks ;) :D

WHere in hell did you hear that he had a fit before he left Renault , please stop making untrue statement ....

jarrambide

7th August 2007, 05:41

i think that Alonso is quicker the LH and he also know how to set up a car ...
You are not alone, Alonso also thinks he is faster, unfortunately for him the numbers up until now says that LH has been a little bit faster.

Hondo

7th August 2007, 05:53

Anybody think Markabilly could be Mekaylee?

Timber

7th August 2007, 05:53

This link is posted in the Alonso and McLaren thread but I thought I'd reproduce it here as it is relevant to the discussion here.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article2211563.ece

But i was written by a LH fan . Hamilton can do no wrong however he is the one that started the weekend debacle and it was the English man who is the head of the race Stewart's that made the call to give the pole on the little cry baby ...

wmcot

7th August 2007, 07:17

Maybe Alonso's massager is looking to Ferrari for a pitpass :p :

Now when you mention Alonso's "massager" are you talking about a person or a handheld electric motor driven device that vibrates and can be used to stimulate tired muscles among other things???

Valve Bounce

7th August 2007, 07:28

I'm talking about the guy on the pit wall who gave Alonso that final 10 second coutdown so that Lewis Hamilton would miss his final fast lap; the same guy that Ron Dennis frog marched out of the pit lane at the end of Q3.

leopard

7th August 2007, 08:29

massager? please share

Cozzie

7th August 2007, 09:53

I can't see Ferrari taking on Alonso as he has been a monster of late and he would not appeal to the Ferrari culture. BMW seem happy with Heidfeld and Kubica, I doubt he would go back to Renault as that would be very hypocritical (although that could be the reason why he would!) so I see Toyota as the only option if the $$$$$$ talk.

If Alonso stays at Mc-Merc Lewis would either go to BMW (who could get rid of Heidfeld for Lewis but I doubt they would for Alonso as they are quite a conservative team) or Ferrari who could give Massa the boot for Lewis.

Lewis will not partner Fernando in 2008! Gary Paffet would be the most likely option for no. 2 at McLaren although I would say he would be part of Prodrive's plans.

Valve Bounce

7th August 2007, 10:07

massager? please share

You'll have to ask Fernando for that. But I'll bet the chances of your sharing this guy would be next to zero. For a start, I doubt if you speak Spanish, then I don't think you can drive an F1 car, .................

Mark

7th August 2007, 10:09

Vodafone will pay 'anything' to keep Hamiltion?

Vodafone have very deep pockets, and Hamilton is marketing gold right now, just look at the number of adverts featuring him. Of course this is in the UK, and you have to consider the rest of the world

Anybody condiser if Alonso wins 3 champs in a row, he might retire?

Doubtful. He's still quite young and AFAIK doesn't have family etc to consider, so why would he?

McLaren need Hamilton, more than Hamilton needs McLaren?

Not really, from a marketing and sponsorship point of view, absolutely. From a point of view of winning races and championships, they could do that with Alonso.

Maybe Lewis can set a car up better than Alonso

I certainly think Lewis has a bit of a better 'feel' for how to set a car up. But maybe that's just the engineers helping him more?

Is Alonso really that ultra-special? Or was Renaults moving ballest making him look special?

Did Renault have the ballast thing in 2005?

Could Lewis get out of McLaren contract, even if he wanted to?

Doubtful. Ron will likely have him locked down tight for the next 10 years or so, if he goes to another team it will bascially be 'on loan' from McLaren. So if Hamilton continues his current form you aren't going to see him in a team that's going to challenge McLaren.

Everybody is scared of Kimi on his day. Alonso will not jump from the frying pan into the fire. Is BMW his only option?

As it stands, yes. Respect to Kubica and Heidfeld, but they aren't on the same level IMO. If Alonso leaves McLaren then BMW would be a good option, it would give him the chance to build the team around him. But isn't Alonso on at least a 2 year contract with McLaren?

Could Vodafone follow Lewis to Ferrari?

Unlikely, I doubt Vodafone have a good relationship with Ferrari after they left them. But Hamilton won't be going to Ferrari.

If Alonso moves to BMW and gets beaten by Hienfield, is his career over?

Yes! He's already being beaten by a rookie this year.

Mark

7th August 2007, 10:10

Another question; If either Hamilton or Alonso leave McLaren who will replace them?

janneppi

7th August 2007, 10:57

Scott Speed obviously, this is all just a big show orchestrated by Red Bull to get him to a better seat. ;)

leopard

7th August 2007, 11:11

You'll have to ask Fernando for that. But I'll bet the chances of your sharing this guy would be next to zero. For a start, I doubt if you speak Spanish, then I don't think you can drive an F1 car, .................
I am used to put cushion on the car seat for the purpose of giving some massage therapist on my back, can we use it in F1 car?

Valve Bounce

7th August 2007, 11:20

As it stands, yes. Respect to Kubica and Heidfeld, but they aren't on the same level IMO. If Alonso leaves McLaren then BMW would be a good option, it would give him the chance to build the team around him. But isn't Alonso on at least a 2 year contract with McLaren?

.

Don't know about that. I have already read one report , link somewhere here, that Ron Dennis has told Alonso he can leave at the end of this year. The whole point is whether the two, Lewis and fernando, can survive another year in the same team. Lewis is not short of being capable to manipulate the media too, and so is his dad. All this does not bode well for a team so dysfunctional. I think the next couple of races will shed a helluva lot more light.

osg

7th August 2007, 11:44

I just read with interest on planetF1 that the bosses at maranello have instructed the team to prep an offer worth at least 17million pounds for Hamilton.......

My tip:

Hamilton stays, Alonso back to Renault (Fisi makes way for the return) and Nico Rosberg to the 2nd McLaren seat.

F1MAN2007

7th August 2007, 12:24

I just read with interest on planetF1 that the bosses at maranello have instructed the team to prep an offer worth at least 17million pounds for Hamilton........

Italian newspaper Tuttosport they said £ 20 millions almost US$ 40 millions :D

Valve Bounce

7th August 2007, 13:01

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2644315,00.html

However, the British source is The Mirror :rolleyes:
I don't know which Italian Newspaper is reporting this, but 20 million quid sounds like a helluva big offer.
I'll believe it when it's reported in The Bild. :p :

Let's wait and see - we might find something tomorrow.

ozrevhead

7th August 2007, 13:14

who would want to go to mclaren whilest they clearly favour hamilton - you need to either be a diplomat or a pushover

truefan72

7th August 2007, 13:23

who would want to go to mclaren whilest they clearly favour hamilton - you need to either be a diplomat or a pushover

I would like to see what evidence anyone has that McClaren favor LH. Just becuase Alonso says so is very very far from fact ( or the truth) If equal treatment on 2007 is perceived as favoritism then we trully live in a warped world.

ArrowsFA1

7th August 2007, 13:35

who would want to go to mclaren whilest they clearly favour hamilton - you need to either be a diplomat or a pushover
I think the reason McLaren got into such a mucking fuddle in Hungary was because they are not favouring one driver over the other. Trying to manage intensely competitive individuals who are trying to win for themselves, while racing for a team as well, is never easy. F1 drivers are not the kind of people who accept losing, and losing to a team-mate 'can't be because he's a better driver. It must be because he's being favoured by the team.'

ozrevhead

7th August 2007, 13:49

true - but who will be second fiddle to allow mclaren to pick a favored driver

truefan72

7th August 2007, 13:49

I think the reason McLaren got into such a mucking fuddle in Hungary was because they are not favouring one driver over the other. Trying to manage intensely competitive individuals who are trying to win for themselves, while racing for a team as well, is never easy. F1 drivers are not the kind of people who accept losing, and losing to a team-mate 'can't be because he's a better driver. It must be because he's being favoured by the team.'

Well said Arrows

BDunnell

7th August 2007, 13:53

F1 drivers are not the kind of people who accept losing, and losing to a team-mate 'can't be because he's a better driver. It must be because he's being favoured by the team.'

The same argument as is also put across by disgruntled fans of one driver or team over another, except without the 'the other guy/team must be cheating' bit.

ozrevhead

7th August 2007, 14:01

The same argument as is also put across by disgruntled fans of one driver or team over another, except without the 'the other guy/team must be cheating' bit.

I am not a fan of either driver - I just cant see the attraction of mclaren now

its been said not having a favorite has put mclaren in a hole but who will be second fiddle to allow them to do that

having said that if he goes knocking on redbulls door giving them an offer they cant refuse, I wont complain much :p

Bagwan

7th August 2007, 14:12

Who will drive at McLaren next year ?
That's a loaded question .

First , we must consider whether the team will be thrown out for next year , because of the 780 page debacle . It was threatened by the FIA as the most serious of penalties that could ensue .

Secondly , we need to consider whether rumours of Ron selling out have any legs , as Ron's legs are 60 years old , with lots of golf and yachting left in them . Mind you , it would be necessary to make it a bargain in the glaring light of this mess .

With all this in the background , you might find both Hamilton and Alonso looking to secure a seat elsewhere , just for stability .

If the Macs were banned next year , it might also set off a chain reaction with the sponsors , and a feeding frenzy for the sticker makers .
Those sponsors could be aligned with either Hammy or Fern , and knock out a few monkeys .

Maybe this is what the snake , Dave Richards , has been waiting for . Perhaps he orchestrated the whole mess , getting plans from Stepney , and dropping them off at the copier before calling Trudy to pick them up .
A quick phone call to Fern before the quals , with a suggestion that the Macs aren't the only place to drive a Mercedes lump , and you have a perfect silent coup .
It's also especially sweet for Dave , as Honda are implicated as the eventual destination .

Yeah , ok , I know , not likely , but I am beginning to think we may not have the Macs on the grid at all next year with the current implosion that's going on .

ozrevhead

7th August 2007, 14:19

interesting

certainly could be a possibility - wouldnt put it past Richards

No Mclaren in the F1 grid would be a sad day indeed :(

F1MAN2007

7th August 2007, 14:31

I would like to see what evidence anyone has that McClaren favor LH. Just becuase Alonso says so is very very far from fact ( or the truth) If equal treatment on 2007 is perceived as favoritism then we trully live in a warped world.

I swear if it is my boss I told to F**** swivel, I would have been already sacked. :D

But the kid can say this and still getting more and more nice treatment. Unless this is the language they use in Mclaren, otherwise it is rude and inacceptable.

Lalo

7th August 2007, 15:30

Ron Dennis gave him the green light to leave McLaren if he wants, by the end of this season. Dennis said he was fed up with both Lewis and Fernando, but the spaniard was setted free to go where ever he wants to.

Sourse (argentinean web bulletin "Ultima Vuelta" which means "Last Lap"):
http://www.ultimavuelta.com.ar/noticias.php?t=noticias_internacionales&id=1771

So... With Fernando halfway out of McLaren...

1) Who's gonna replace him? De La Rosa?

2) Which team is he gonna drive for in 2008? A comeback to Renault? Ferrari? BMW or Toyota? Most surelly Renault replacing Fisi..

F1MAN2007

7th August 2007, 15:47

As far as I am concerned, Felippe Massa and Giancarlo Fischella would be thinking already on their plan B for their future. Nick Heidfeld may be also in the same basket?!

Daika

7th August 2007, 15:55

I think Mclaren built a selfdestruct button in their car. Amazing how a team is so far ahead in the championship standings but yet is the biggest loser.

Hendersen

7th August 2007, 16:07

Here's a hint for internet information regarding formula 1 (and anything to do with history for that matter): if you see ".uk" anywhere in the URL, ignore that site completely.

Namerow

7th August 2007, 16:46

I vote for Hamilton/Bourdais at McLaren in 08. I'm sure Bourdais would accept any condition to drive a top car that would still bring him a lot of points and possible victories in his first year in F1. He'll play second fiddle if his contract stipulates it and he'll be better off than driving a Toro Rosso. I don't see any your guns wanting to go end their careers early against Hamilton. Heidfeld is another possibility, but I don't see BMW and Mercedes trying to help each other out.

CarlMetro

7th August 2007, 16:50

Personally I think it will still be Lewis and Fernando

CarlMetro

7th August 2007, 17:08

Personally I think it will still be Lewis and Fernando

........and funnily enough, so does Ron Dennis.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40315

The speculation about the 26-year-old led McLaren boss Ron Dennis to answer questions about the Spaniard’s future in his own post-race press briefing.

However the Briton said such speculation is always inevitable and that his team would respect its contracts with both Alonso and Hamilton – adding that he hoped both drivers would do the same.

"There is an inevitability that these things are rumoured and discussed in other teams," he said.

"We have two drivers who are contracted for several years into the future.

"We will respect our part of that bargain and that part of the situation.

“We hope that the drivers respect theirs because that's what a contract is about."

jens

7th August 2007, 19:40

If Alonso really leaves McLaren, then it's really tough to say, who would replace him. De la Rosa and Paffett... Hmm, probably they aren't quite the brightest talents. Di Resta seems very talented, but has no F1 experience (and to put him alongside another young driver like Hamilton would be very risky).

I think McLaren needs an experienced driver (as Hamilton is still relying on Alonso's setups). But who can it be besides de la Rosa? Wurz? Heidfeld? R. Schumacher? Fisichella? Villeneuve or Montoya? :D Or buy someone out of contract? All of them sound more or less doubtful and even strange. McLaren should do its best to keep Alonso at least for next year I think.

wmcot

7th August 2007, 20:32

IF Alonso leaves, it would be a good idea for McLaren to find a 2nd driver who is good at setting up a car and can race reasonably well. They don't need 2 superstar egos again next year. De la Rosa is already familiar with the team as is Wurz. I wonder if DC would ever go back? He could certainly set the car up and is used to "riding shotgun" for a champion teammate.

leopard

8th August 2007, 03:48

How about the idea driver exchange, FA goes back to Renault and Fisichela to replace him at the McLaren. Fisi is a good fella that will not make the main driver worried about anything, in any occasion possible he took the win within the whole strategy of the team on focusing to main driver, could be a discourse that can give benefit for Hamilton and McLaren.

However going back at the former team is not a good idea altogether considering they have another rising star Kovalainen there.

FA looked quite comfortable reaching the title alongside Fisi and enjoy the whole season like sharing poses with a lot of woman all together :D

Cozzie

8th August 2007, 07:30

Heidfeld wouldn't be a bad option for McLaren...

Hawkmoon

8th August 2007, 07:40

If McLaren's recent history is anything to go by, next year's car will be a horrible piece of slow and/or unreliable rubbish. The 2002, 2004 and 2006 cars were nowhere near the championship where as the 2003, 2005 and 2007 cars have all been championship contenders.

So it looks like McLaren don't like even years and 2008's car will be crap. Maybe Alonso is right to jump ship. :)

leopard

8th August 2007, 08:34

wmcot

8th August 2007, 09:11

Maybe the bigger question should be, in light of the melt-down from the espionage scandal, driver wars, RD losing control, etc., is, "Will there BE a McLaren next year?"

leopard

8th August 2007, 09:27

Maybe the bigger question should be, in light of the melt-down from the espionage scandal, driver wars, RD losing control, etc., is, "Will there BE a McLaren next year?"
What BE was it Basic Element or what?

:)

wmcot

8th August 2007, 09:28

What BE was it Basic Element or what?

Just the word "be" capitalized for emphasis...

555-04Q2

8th August 2007, 09:38

Mickey Mouse and Goofy will win the 2008 drivers seats. Animated comedy is what the current McLaren drivers and team are at the moment and who better to replace them than two animated icons?

Hendersen

8th August 2007, 10:11

I swear if it is my boss I told to F**** swivel, I would have been already sacked. :D

But the kid can say this and still getting more and more nice treatment. Unless this is the language they use in Mclaren, otherwise it is rude and inacceptable.

He'd be driving a Spyker and fighting for second to last place if it wasn't for his being British.

F1MAN2007

8th August 2007, 12:06

Here's a hint for internet information regarding formula 1 (and anything to do with history for that matter): if you see ".uk" anywhere in the URL, ignore that site completely.

Haaaaaa!!!!! You made my day guy!!!! :rotflmao:

ArrowsFA1

8th August 2007, 13:28

8th August 2007, 13:33

Hold on....there's an image coming through...

Hmmm......why do I get a vision of two team-mates in the gravel in Japan?

I'd give the Alonso-Hamilton pairing another season at the most.

8th August 2007, 13:35

You've gotta love these pieces from reputable sources such as the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/motorsport.html?in_article_id=473707&in_page_id=1954) that have a version of the 'Hamilton to Ferrari' stories :D

I'm surprised they aren't blaming Alonso for the death of Diana, street crime and foot and mouth.

Or was that Monday's edition?

SGWilko

8th August 2007, 13:40

Here's a hint for internet information regarding formula 1 (and anything to do with history for that matter): if you see ".uk" anywhere in the URL, ignore that site completely.

Sheesh, I know, I mean, what do the Ukranians know about F1 anyway.

BDunnell

8th August 2007, 13:43

I'm surprised they aren't blaming Alonso for the death of Diana, street crime and foot and mouth.

Or was that Monday's edition?

:laugh:

BeansBeansBeans

8th August 2007, 14:20

He'd be driving a Spyker and fighting for second to last place if it wasn't for his being British.

Quite right. It's not as if he's got any talent. It's all down to Britishness. Or the fact that Ron Dennis is secretly his uncle.

Flat.tyres

8th August 2007, 15:28

Quite right. It's not as if he's got any talent. It's all down to Britishness. Or the fact that Ron Dennis is secretly his uncle.

dont be silly. Hamilton is actually driving this years Ferrari which was knocked up for him from the blue prints. McLaren cant build a car as good as the Ferrari so they nicked him one because he's British.

Alonso's driving the Minardi because it was quicker than this years McLaren and it just shows what a god he is that he's just 7 points behind.

as for Hendersens countrymen, well, its obvious that they are the best drivers but its a conspiracy by Bernie to keep them out of F1 so the inferior drivers like Lewis can shine.

F1MAN2007

8th August 2007, 16:36

I'm surprised they aren't blaming Alonso for the death of Diana, street crime and foot and mouth.

Or was that Monday's edition?

:bounce: :laugh: :rotflmao:

sukabumi

8th August 2007, 17:37

rohanweb

8th August 2007, 21:52

Ian McC

8th August 2007, 21:56

Here's a hint for internet information regarding formula 1 (and anything to do with history for that matter): if you see ".uk" anywhere in the URL, ignore that site completely.

That's a major insecurity complex you have there.

Flat.tyres

9th August 2007, 13:19

That's a major insecurity complex you have there.

our little friend just likes to flame the brits because he has nobody to cheer on himself.

If you cant beat them, flame them :laugh:

Valve Bounce

13th August 2007, 08:11

......................we'd all be wondering who'd be driving for mcLaren next year. :D

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120191

Ranger

13th August 2007, 10:10

Fernando and Lewis for 2008, methinks. After that it'll be free-range.

wedge

13th August 2007, 15:45

Just an observation in the traders stands over the weekend when I was at Silverstone.....

f1_fann

16th August 2007, 03:25

Is this something of a sidekick FA is looking for to have as his team-mate.. ( well ..then he should hire Rubens or Massa ) ... remember how Schumi had these guys as his sidekicks to win 7 world championships... shame!!! FA is trying to do the same, and its unlikley many true competitive drivers find it good though... well ..FA can have his ex-team mate Fisi ;)

I'm sorry but it sounds like you are saying that Schumi wouldn't have won 7 world championships if he didn't have Massa and Rubens as team mates.

Although i agree with you that it must have helped to have RB a a partner,
and also that FA seems to want to try the same recipe, remember that Schumi won with Bennetton (inferior car at the time) against some excellent drivers.

It was also in part because of him and his team (JTodt, R BRAUN and company) that Ferrari won 6 consecutive world championships.

markabilly

16th August 2007, 05:22

I'm sorry but it sounds like you are saying that Schumi wouldn't have won 7 world championships if he didn't have Massa and Rubens as team mates.

Although i agree with you that it must have helped to have RB a a partner,
and also that FA seems to want to try the same recipe, remember that Schumi won with Bennetton (inferior car at the time) against some excellent drivers.

It was also in part because of him and his team (JTodt, R BRAUN and company) that Ferrari won 6 consecutive world championships.

a good wind tunnel is now always preferable, so who needs useless drivers anyway :vader:

So who cares..all the drivers do is screw stuff up...

Big MAc should just do it all by remote control...far less headaches and you don't have all this personal nonsense screwing up fine engineering.....drivers not listening, sitting in the pits way too long obviously mucking everything up...running off the road..running their mouths off and trying to steal the glory from the real thing about F! now: The cars

leopard

16th August 2007, 05:53

I'm sorry but it sounds like you are saying that Schumi wouldn't have won 7 world championships if he didn't have Massa and Rubens as team mates.

yeah, He didn't win anything with Massa as teammate, welcome to forumm! :D

Valve Bounce

16th August 2007, 06:51

, remember that Schumi won with Bennetton (inferior car at the time) against some excellent drivers.

.

Oh Yeah!! I remembr now - the one with the Traction Control that wasn't used in the races, and the one used to ram Damon Hill in Adelaide. Brings back pleasant memories, all that.

Hendersen

16th August 2007, 06:58

Oh Yeah!! I remembr now - the one with the Traction Control that wasn't used in the races, and the one used to ram Damon Hill in Adelaide. Brings back pleasant memories, all that.

He beat out Senna when he had traction control and Schumacher did not, the year before the whole traction control incident. The joke known as Hamilton is yet to race in anything that isn't the best car in the field. And hill is an idiot that couldn't pass an old lady on sunday. Why did his dumb ass not wait for the straight to pass on? You know, the place where 99.9999999% of the passing gets done in formula one? I'm tired of British jingoists turning F-1 into a god damn joke of nationalistic BS.

wmcot

16th August 2007, 07:02

He beat out Senna when he had traction control and Schumacher did not, the year before the whole traction control incident. The joke known as Hamilton is yet to race in anything that isn't the best car in the field. And hill is an idiot that couldn't pass an old lady on sunday. Why did his dumb ass not wait for the straight to pass on? You know, the place where 99.9999999% of the passing gets done in formula one? I'm tired of British jingoists turning F-1 into a god damn joke of nationalistic BS.

But remember, the British did invent F1 along with everything else. We're just lucky to be living in one of their colonies. ;)

Hendersen

16th August 2007, 07:26

But remember, the British did invent F1 along with everything else. We're just lucky to be living in one of their colonies. ;)

British invented the most massive slave trade the world has ever seen. Other than that, they have invented little of note. F-1 couldn't have been made without some Germans inventing the internal combustion engines and automobiles. Even that said, I'm not even sure the early history of F-1, who started what. Given the names of the governing bodies, however, it seems unlikely it was of British genesis.

wmcot

16th August 2007, 07:27

Valve Bounce

16th August 2007, 07:34

He beat out Senna when he had traction control and Schumacher did not, the year before the whole traction control incident. The joke known as Hamilton is yet to race in anything that isn't the best car in the field. And hill is an idiot that couldn't pass an old lady on sunday. Why did his dumb ass not wait for the straight to pass on? You know, the place where 99.9999999% of the passing gets done in formula one? I'm tired of British jingoists turning F-1 into a god damn joke of nationalistic BS.

You're just jealous - your memory of Mario must be fading. :p :

Valve Bounce

16th August 2007, 07:36

But remember, the British did invent F1 along with everything else. We're just lucky to be living in one of their colonies. ;)

Hey!! you'd still be in the Club if you guys hadn't thrown that tea into the harbour!! :p :

Valve Bounce

16th August 2007, 07:37

British invented the most massive slave trade the world has ever seen. .

And who bought these slaves? :rolleyes:

Hendersen

16th August 2007, 07:44

And who bought these slaves? :rolleyes:

British plantation owners, by large, of course.

pino

16th August 2007, 08:00

Please stick to the topic and keep politics off this forum...thanks :)

Roamy

17th August 2007, 01:36

markabilly

17th August 2007, 02:32

Alonso Snubs McLaren Peace-Talks'
Fernando Alonso's relationship with McLaren suffered another blow this week when he has reportedly turned down the opportunity for peace-talks. The Spaniard was invited to join Lewis Hamilton and Ron Dennis aboard a yacht off Menorca in the hope of ironing out tensions, however, rejected the offer.

Now this is my kind of guy! Up your ass ron - I am outta here

No surprize--one does not publicily invite someone to the table to resolve diffferences within a team, one does it private/ So much for team reunification

One goes to a neutral ground to resolve differences and not to the playground of his foe, to sit as a guest while the other guy is busy messing with the owner's daughter...

Just read the details, it ain't that FA is that tough, he just ain't close to being that stupid....join our little party as our guest...well that should tell him who is in and who is out...

:vader:

Timber

17th August 2007, 02:32

Hamilton and Button, all english team... :D

Alonso back to Renault to drive with Heikki. Hamilton is quicker than Alonso and will only get better. Alonsos ego is so big that he cant handle a faster team-mate. And he goes back to peaceful Renault only to find out that all the time improving Heikki will be supertough to beat next year. ;)

RD dont let Hamilton go, he wants his own prodigy to become english Schumacher and will forgive LH because he is young and will hopefully learn some respect.

I pity the driver that will joining LH at MacLaren , he will treated the same way that the drivers at Ferrari when MS was there ......
I think LH ego is larger then Alonso and Alonso has the right to have one
he won the title twice .... :eek:

Timber

17th August 2007, 02:40

I've been reading that other teams are attempting to cash in on the whole debacle by trying to persuade Alonso to sign with them. Are they insane?? :D

What happens if he goes to another team and gets his backside kicked by that driver too?? More toys thrown out of his pram, handbags at dawn?

Lets not forget Alonso threw a major wobbly at Renualt too, before he left!

I think Alonso is a very talented driver, but I'm starting to think that if I were a team leader I'd not consider him worth all the hassle. Sorry Donks ;) :D

you are so bias that it is painful to read your post . I think Alonso was very happy at Renault and was just looking for another challenge . Alonso will find a seat next year with a good team . That i am sure . Pity the :rolleyes: guy that will be driving with the Brat at MC.

Timber

17th August 2007, 02:46

I think that if Alonso left McLaren, there would be a queue of talented drivers wanting to drive for Ron Dennis. I see Nick Heidfeld, Mark Webber, Kubica, Heiki, all chasing the vacant seat. Even bunsen.

I do not think that any of the drivers you mention would want to be racing in the same team as LH . If you think Alonso has an ego you just wait what happen if Lewis win the title this year ....

Valve Bounce

17th August 2007, 02:47

I pity the driver that will joining LH at MacLaren , he will treated the same way that the drivers at Ferrari when MS was there ......
I think LH ego is larger then Alonso and Alonso has the right to have one
he won the title twice .... :eek:

Maybe they give seat to Yamamoto, NO?? He be good!!

Timber

17th August 2007, 03:03

Here's a hint for internet information regarding formula 1 (and anything to do with history for that matter): if you see ".uk" anywhere in the URL, ignore that site completely.

Funny and probably true ....

Mifune

17th August 2007, 03:52

British invented the most massive slave trade the world has ever seen. Other than that, they have invented little of note. F-1 couldn't have been made without some Germans inventing the internal combustion engines and automobiles. Even that said, I'm not even sure the early history of F-1, who started what. Given the names of the governing bodies, however, it seems unlikely it was of British genesis.

your post doesnt really deserve a response but i have a few minutes to kill before i go out.
the british did not invent slavery, merely refined it, and arguably abandoned slavery when it was at its most lucrative, it should be noted of course slavery was refined further by....you! in the united states as for other inventions of note im not going to quote every single one as time is short so here are a few highlights the Tin Can, the Locomotive, industry, radar, the vacuum cleaner, the language that you speak, viagra, lightbulbs, the fax, the internet, television, penicillin... and as this is a motosport forum lets bring this back on topic slightly, disc brakes, the internal combustion engine(in principle british involvement predates german), putting the engine behind the driver etc. etc. etc.

ps F1 may not be entirely of british genesis (honestly who cares?) but it is british drivers and teams who have dominated its modern history in terms of driver/constructor championships.

italy 3/18
germany 7/2 (4 if you include Mac as merc)
UK 12/35

i like you, you're funny, but i dont think you'll be here very long.

baz69

17th August 2007, 04:01

FA needs to grow up big time. He's getting his a** kicked by LH. Like Mika Hakkinen said, FA simply cannot handle the fact he is being outdone by a rookie. I would prefer it if FA left McLaren - it leaves the door open for some really talented youngsters who are hungry to race in F1.

baz69

17th August 2007, 04:08

Timber... are you for real?

wmcot

17th August 2007, 06:20

your post doesnt really deserve a response but i have a few minutes to kill before i go out.
the british did not invent slavery, merely refined it, and arguably abandoned slavery when it was at its most lucrative, it should be noted of course slavery was refined further by....you! in the united states as for other inventions of note im not going to quote every single one as time is short so here are a few highlights the Tin Can, the Locomotive, industry, radar, the vacuum cleaner, the language that you speak, viagra, lightbulbs, the fax, the internet, television, penicillin... and as this is a motosport forum lets bring this back on topic slightly, disc brakes, the internal combustion engine(in principle british involvement predates german), putting the engine behind the driver etc. etc. etc.

You're really Jeremy Clarkson, aren't you????

Valve Bounce

17th August 2007, 07:41

You're really Jeremy Clarkson, aren't you????

Which team does he drive for? :confused:

CarlMetro

17th August 2007, 08:41

I do not think that any of the drivers you mention would want to be racing in the same team as LH

[sarcasm mode] Yeah you're right. I can't see any of them wanting to drive the best car on the track at the moment, for a team who have always treated both their drivers as equals :rolleyes: [sarcasm mode]

TMorel

17th August 2007, 09:59

Hang on, if LH can win the championship without having earned it, or with no talent, or by using FA's settings etc then it doesn't matter WHO drives, because obviously it's purely the car not the driver

CarlMetro

17th August 2007, 10:09

555-04Q2

17th August 2007, 10:48

How can you say that he hasn't earned it :confused: He has consistantly beaten his vastly more experienced, and two-time world champion, teammate. It doesn't matter that he's beaten everyone else too, the best measure of any driver is how they compare to their teammate.

Still, that doesn't really matter because Alonso has been given an inferior car by a team that hates, hasn't he ? :rolleyes:

Indeed. If I was a rookie and won a WDC in my first year and beat my very highly rated teamate, I would expect some sort of recognition.

LH is a great addition to the F1 circus and should be respected for the maturity he has shown on and off the track. He could have done a lot worse and used his rookie status as an excuse. Rather he has let his racing do the talking and delivered the goods.

Hendersen

17th August 2007, 12:33

How can you say that he hasn't earned it :confused: He has consistantly beaten his vastly more experienced, and two-time world champion, teammate. It doesn't matter that he's beaten everyone else too, the best measure of any driver is how they compare to their teammate.

Still, that doesn't really matter because Alonso has been given an inferior car by a team that hates, hasn't he ? :rolleyes:

He's constantly beaten Alonso, oh really? What would the WDC standings be if FIA hadn't decided to bogusly move Alonso back on one of the hardest tracks to pass on in the entiire history of formula one? Alonso has outdriven and out qualified alonso when fuel load is considered essentially every race this year.

Flat.tyres

17th August 2007, 12:37

Alonso has outdriven and out qualified alonso when fuel load is considered essentially every race this year.

OK, you have me convinced. now, that IS impressive :laugh:

Hendersen

17th August 2007, 12:40

OK, you have me convinced. now, that IS impressive :laugh:

Ya, it takes a rocket scientist to keep track of who is pitting early because they decided to go light on fuel.

Dave B

17th August 2007, 12:42

He's constantly beaten Alonso, oh really? What would the WDC standings be if FIA hadn't decided to bogusly move Alonso back on one of the hardest tracks to pass on in the entiire history of formula one?
If you reverse the finishing positions of the McLaren drivers at Hungary (1st and 4th), Hamilton would still be leading the championship, albeit with a reduced margin.

We get it: you don't like Hamilton. I don't know why, but that's your choice. But pointlessly slagging him off without ever explaining your reasons is getting somewhat tedious to say the least.

I fully expect a response dragging my nationality into this (I'm British, despite the flag), so bring it on. But as you're about to become the 2nd person ever in 6 years to make my ignore list, I won't see it.

Hendersen

17th August 2007, 12:47

If you reverse the finishing positions of the McLaren drivers at Hungary (1st and 4th), Hamilton would still be leading the championship, albeit with a reduced margin.

We get it: you don't like Hamilton. I don't know why, but that's your choice. But pointlessly slagging him off without ever explaining your reasons is getting somewhat tedious to say the least.

I fully expect a response dragging my nationality into this (I'm British, despite the flag), so bring it on. But as you're about to become the 2nd person ever in 6 years to make my ignore list, I won't see it.

I don't like him because he is the worst combination of every miserable quality in a driver. Horribly overrated for being distinctly average and having an even worse crybaby personality than Alonso, JV or drama queeen supreme Mansell ever had. He's a total dirtball that, after trash talking the guy that gave him everything in racing career, should be stuck in a spyker for the next several years where he can learn some manners and what its like not to drive the best car in the field, two unqiue experiences for the arrogant twat.

CarlMetro

17th August 2007, 12:48

Alonso has outdriven and out qualified alonso when fuel load is considered essentially every race this year.

Alonso has out-driven and out-qualified alonso :confused: So you're saying that he's managed to out do himself? I thought he was good but I didn't realise he'd managed to crack quatum physics too :\

CarlMetro

17th August 2007, 12:53

I don't like him because he is the worst combination of every miserable quality in a driver. Horribly overrated for being distinctly average and having an even worse crybaby personality than Alonso, JV or drama queeen supreme Mansell ever had. He's a total dirtball that, after trash talking the guy that gave him everything in racing career, should be stuck in a spyker for the next several years where he can learn some manners and what its like not to drive the best car in the field, two unqiue experiences for the arrogant twat.

Yeah....................but how do you really feel about him? :p :

I'm sure Lewis and the rest of the F1 world will have constant sleepless nights about your feelings, but I'm sure, with a little bit of counselling they'll get over it eventually.

Personally, you'll just be the first ever I'll add to my ignore list :D

Hendersen

17th August 2007, 12:55

Alonso has out-driven and out-qualified alonso :confused: So you're saying that he's managed to out do himself? I thought he was good but I didn't realise he'd managed to crack quatum physics too :\

Funny, funny. Originally I had two sentences, and I added them together and didn't notice the error. Replace the second alonso with "him".

Flat.tyres

17th August 2007, 13:52

Funny, funny. Originally I had two sentences, and I added them together and didn't notice the error. Replace the second alonso with "him".

Is this in the biblical sense or the Gumball Rally one?

Flat.tyres

17th August 2007, 13:57

Personally, you'll just be the first ever I'll add to my ignore list :D

and miss out on all the comedy value. Are You Kidding!!!!

come on hendersen, dont beat about the bush. youve got a crush on him but cant admit it, havent you.

is it the big dolefull eyes or the fresh "young boy" face. Its nothing to be ashamed about. some of my best friends are homophobic, xenophobic racists in denial of their true feelings. :kiss:

Valve Bounce

17th August 2007, 14:35

Alonso has outdriven and out qualified alonso when fuel load is considered essentially every race this year.
I guess Lewis Hamilton hasn't a ghost of a chance then :(

Flat.tyres

17th August 2007, 15:08

Ya, it takes a rocket scientist to keep track of who is pitting early because they decided to go light on fuel.

who Alonso :laugh:

are you seriously trying to say that Lewis has been running light on fuel in qualification compared to Alonso?

if you are, I'd say you were a prat.

Flat.tyres

17th August 2007, 15:16

jso1985

17th August 2007, 15:29

or Hamilton as the evil genious he is has figured out how to save fuel :p :

555-04Q2

17th August 2007, 15:36

hint: open mouth, change feet, close mouth.

:laugh: ROTFLMFHO. I cant wait to hear the reply :laugh:

Flat.tyres

17th August 2007, 15:55

or Hamilton as the evil genious he is has figured out how to save fuel :p :

Ron was probably slipping him some in his drinks bottle :D

or, Lewis cheated by having a solar pannel and hybrid engine to conserve fuel

or, Ron fed him beans and plumbed his arse into the manifold system to run on methane

or, because he was British, he was full of hot air and therefore lightened the car

or, or, or.....

Kata89

19th August 2007, 11:57

Hamilton and... well.... don't know but it won't be Alonso

markabilly

19th August 2007, 15:28

actually, after re-reading it, it appears you are trying to suggest that.

OK, lets have a look shall we at the first pit stops.

GP FA LH

AUS 22 23
MAL 18 20
BAH 22 19
SPA 19 22
MON 26 29
CAN 23 22
USA 22 21
FRA 36 39
GB 20 16
EUR wipeout and all classed as 1 on stats
HUN 17 19

I make it that Freddie was lighter 6 times to Lewis 4.

hint: open mouth, change feet, close mouth.

Because of the fuel lap credit, one also needs to look at how many burn off laps each did--LH could start heavier on fuel yet still be lighter when he did his last Q lap

Or RD could just be calling FA in earlier to give some advantage to LH of running lighter, longer

It use to crack me up, when the announcers would go on about how RB was running much lighter than MS, yet MS was still faster than RB........all cause RB was pitting first meant he had less fuel on board...other times, it was the team wanted to get ready for MS by practicing doing RB first........

but with your counting abilitites, may I inquire as to the availability of your services? Saw a rabbit close to my yard the other day, and he may have eaten some leaves of my grass, and I was wondering if you might possibly be able to count them so I can be sure to replace any that might be missing... :D

Flat.tyres

20th August 2007, 11:52

I give up, I really do :rolleyes:

markabilly

20th August 2007, 14:40

I give up, I really do :rolleyes:

Why such a grumper?

u should be happy, you got a new girlfriend or boy friend or whatever......http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=328761#post328761

Flat.tyres

20th August 2007, 14:52

Why such a grumper?

u should be happy, you got a new girlfriend or boy friend or whatever......http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=328761#post328761

you seem to be obsessed with myself and your suspicion of homosexual goings on.

you only have to ask darling. I bet your a taker and not a giver aren't you :kiss:

markabilly

20th August 2007, 16:13

you seem to be obsessed with myself and your suspicion of homosexual goings on.

you only have to ask darling. I bet your a taker and not a giver aren't you :kiss:

No, i was just not being a sexist, and assuming anything about the sex of the parties involved, so i left the choice to you guys, girls or guy and girl or "other"as your choice may be as to how or what "joys " you would all have together in the future.

best wishes :s mokin:

leopard

5th September 2007, 13:40

Hondo

5th September 2007, 14:06

There is the talk also that there is indication RD gave green light of indication for FA going elsewhere end of this season. The high budgeted team Toyota has revealed their interest in the spaniard with sweet number of money once the reigning champion is free on the market.

With Alonso there how good prospect of Toyota will be?
Considering a toyota powered car Williams is only a gap behind Renault, there will be possibility they will challenge next season like Renault last year.

And how future of McLaren without Alonso is going to be?
Some have believed that improvement of McLaren was coupled with Alonso being there. They have already learned from his strategy and may have implemented it to Hamilton and therefore Alonso's move will not make them struggle as hard as seasons backwards.

above me, tell us how can you enjoy threesomes :D

I think the McLaren engineers would dispute Alonso's role in making the car faster. Hamilton is giving Alonso more than a run for his money in the same car. You could easily argue that Alonso was responsible for getting the most out of his car at Renault because Fisichella didn't seem to be able to find it.

McLaren will survive without Alonso if it comes to that. Toyota, as a prospect, sucks amd will continue to do so. If Alonso is thinking of retiring and wants to make a pile of money before he goes, then Toyota would be the place.

F1MAN2007

5th September 2007, 14:45

.....but with your counting abilitites, may I inquire as to the availability of your services? Saw a rabbit close to my yard the other day, and he may have eaten some leaves of my grass, and I was wondering if you might possibly be able to count them so I can be sure to replace any that might be missing... :D

:laugh: :laugh: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

leopard

5th September 2007, 15:19

I think the McLaren engineers would dispute Alonso's role in making the car faster. Hamilton is giving Alonso more than a run for his money in the same car. You could easily argue that Alonso was responsible for getting the most out of his car at Renault because Fisichella didn't seem to be able to find it. McLaren will survive without Alonso if it comes to that
We can't deny that Hamilton drive more than spectacular, but we have to note down that McLaren have struggled for many years before Alonso joined them, and Renault performs otherwise post Alonso left them. This is not only coincidence, at least they have possibility to back struggle if Alonso leaves. If they have ability to survive they might have absorbed all Alonso's input either on their car and strategy on winning each single race and the season.
Where he is to be next year will depend on which Mclaren on the top of others, if he must be the second to his teammate I can't blame him to leave McLaren.

Toyota, as a prospect, sucks amd will continue to do so. If Alonso is thinking of retiring and wants to make a pile of money before he goes, then Toyota would be the place.
If we refer back to 2005 season of the best season of Toyota, they still have chance to get any better than current achievement, If I were Alonso I will take Toyota's offer and start working fresh as like he has developed Renault won two title from nothing.

Hondo

5th September 2007, 18:31

We can't deny that Hamilton drive more than spectacular, but we have to note down that McLaren have struggled for many years before Alonso joined them, and Renault performs otherwise post Alonso left them. This is not only coincidence, at least they have possibility to back struggle if Alonso leaves. If they have ability to survive they might have absorbed all Alonso's input either on their car and strategy on winning each single race and the season.
Where he is to be next year will depend on which Mclaren on the top of others, if he must be the second to his teammate I can't blame him to leave McLaren.

If we refer back to 2005 season of the best season of Toyota, they still have chance to get any better than current achievement, If I were Alonso I will take Toyota's offer and start working fresh as like he has developed Renault won two title from nothing.

McLaren engineers already had the car designed when Alonso got there so his input into the new car was minimal at best. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy but for him to take credit for a winning car at McLaren is silly. I will be the first to admit that he can claim credit for being a big part of Renault's championships. If Renault had only Fisichella and a clone of Fisichella driving for them I doubt they would have either championship.

I hate to say this because I enjoy kicking Ralf around, but as long as Toyota continues to think, act, and manage like Toyota they don't stand a chance and it won't matter who is designing for them or driving for them. The celebrated Japanese Corporate Model doesn't apply to everything. Can you imagine what Williams, Jordan, or even Stoddard could do with Toyota's F1 budget? Toyota needs to hire some professional racing people, give them the checkbook, and shut up, go away, and leave them alone. Then they'll get the success they desire.

Crypt

5th September 2007, 23:21

Who will drive a McLaren next year?

Well, if the FIA finds them guilty on new evidence on the 13th, no one. I wonder how much 'Yota, Honder or Red Bull would offer Lewis?

Valve Bounce

7th September 2007, 03:15

Alonso is beginning to look less and less likely by the hour.

Blackburn Buccaneer

7th September 2007, 06:14

forget the mind games!
part of being able to beat the other guy, is first accepting that he is good.
accepting that he may be better at some things than you are.
then find his weaknesses, and exploit them.
in alonso's current state of mind, he is seemingly unable to do this.

leopard

7th September 2007, 07:16

He is not Alonso if cannot read the weakness of each of his opponent which is unluckily also his teammate. There is no room for such teammate disobeying instruction from the team and doing the race as he likes vaguely define of being opportunist or chameleon.

Hamilton seems need more time to doing great in wet, where he was in Germany undesirably calling for stewards to be able to continue the race, and Alonso proved that he is master.
Unfortunately, there is not a lot of wet races this year as the lucky factor for Alonso to show his supremacy.

leopard

7th September 2007, 07:24

McLaren engineers already had the car designed when Alonso got there so his input into the new car was minimal at best. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy but for him to take credit for a winning car at McLaren is silly.
Don't be wrong, Alonso took the risk of joining McLaren when they were at worse for not winning even a single race of 2006, they were even worse than Honda because of their win in Hungary

Toyota needs to hire some professional racing people, give them the checkbook, and shut up, go away, and leave them alone. Then they'll get the success they desire.
Hiring driver like Alonso would be the best part of having some professional racing people.