Foot and Mouth

[allycat228]

I see that foot and mouth has reared its ugly head again, I hope it does not spread up and down the country again, I will nevef forget the images of the pyiers (maybe wrong spelling)

[jim mcglinchey]

yeah, I've been toying with the idea of becoming vegetarian and nothing about the meat trade disturbs me more than the site of thousands and millions of animals being exterminated and disposed off like the pure commodity that they are, when theres a health scare.

[allycat228]

I do not know why they will not allow the animals to be vaccinated against this as it would be cheaper than culling them

[Brown, Jon Brow]

How can this happen again. :mad:

I wouldn't be surprised if it spreads rapidly again. Animals will go from a farm in Cumbria to an auction 30miles away, then to an abattoir 200miles south, then 100miles east to be packaged, then all the way back to a Cumbrian supermarket to be sold.

As far as I no there is no risk at all to humans by eating infected meat.

[MrJan]

Never mind the sheep, if it spreads like last time I won't be able to go rallying for the next 18 months :eek:

[Drew]

I'm glad to see they have acted quickly. But farmers don't need this, what with low confidence in British meat abroad already :\

[DonnieDarco]

Its so difficult to contain, too. All footpaths and walks in Winchester were shut down the last time, and we were nowhere near the actual outbreak, so far as I recall. Trouble is, deer can track it for many miles.

[Erki]

Never mind the sheep, if it spreads like last time I won't be able to go rallying for the next 18 months :eek:

Why did the whole season had to be canceled that year at all? :confused: If you (might) get infected by eating that meat, well, don't eat it then! Is that so hard to understand? And since when is rallying about eating meat? :confused:

[Hazell B]

... deer can track it for many miles.

I've a nasty feeling that's how it arrived here again as it happens.

Cattle aren't ever fed anything animal based now, so how this lot got it unless they've newly arrived on the land pre-infected is a mystery. My best guess was deer. Not seen any news today, so perhaps that mystery is solved now?

Farms in Yorkshire are already looking at ruined spud, pea, wheat and other crops. Fodder for cattle and so on is twice it's normal price at the moment, too, thanks to hay being ruined or not yet cut. Keeping cattle on over-grazed land means they need extra food, as does keeping them after they'd be slaughtered, so I don't fancy some farm's chances of lasting long this time. They'll just shoot and retire I guess.

I was on the verge of applying for a holding number to keep store sheep (like the cattle first affected, sheep I'd buy thin and fatten to finishing weight) but I won't bother now. They'll be cheap for a while then very, very over priced even if none are culled. Plus, I couldn't face the upset of having a disease like this bring DEFRA round with their inhumane methods at times like this.

[allycat228]

There were two reported cases of foot and mouth in countries abroad this
year alone so could that be a reason why its hitting here again?

You can not get anything from eating an animal that has had foot and mouth,

Defra turned down the chance to give vaccines after the last outbreak because places like france would not buy the meat, it would save a lot of trouble and money if these animals were vaccinated

[Hazell B]

....it would save a lot of trouble and money if these animals were vaccinated

Sadly that's not the case.
It's costly to make and use the vaccine, plus there are different strains to protect against (like colds and 'flu) so it's hard to get the right version as far as I remember.

Anyway, it now appears the people who made or invented the vaccine are the ones to blame for this. I just look forward to their excuses and compensation payments being handed out ASAP.

[LotusElise]

Hazell, you might be able to shed some light on this.

During the 2001 outbreak, the BBC showed a farmer in Thailand who was dealing with foot and mouth. She explained that it is just treated as an illness there and any infected cattle were treated by a vet. She was shown bottle-feeding a vitamin tonic to one of her plough oxen to help him recover.
My question is, if they have a foot-and-mouth medicine in a "less developed" country like Thailand, why do we not use it here?
(I appreciate there might be a logical reason - I've just never heard it explained.)

[Hazell B]

I don't know much about the actual virus, but do know it's common in much of Africa and some other countries - as in most cattle and goats have it.

It's not often deadly, it's not even very serious as diseases can be. But it does make the animal slower to grow, leaner than it should be and makes it feel similar to that 'I'm too tired, I can't be bothered' feeling we get when we have a nasty cold.

I'm sure we've all eaten plenty of F&M victims in imported canned meats and burgers, so it makes no difference to us at the plate end.

However, you need to treat the animal with extra care and feed it more to get a similar result to a healthy animal come slaughter. So it's best out of the country. With our methods of housing vast herds together in barns we'd soon have a more serious version that could kill adult animals, while most other countries affected keep one or two animals per farm and just put up with the few baby animals that die from F&M each year.

Maybe the DEFRA site can make a better job of explaining it. I'm probably not doing much of a job :p :

[Hazell B]

I've just thought of a similar disease thta would explain it better.
Doh!

You know Mixie in rabbits? Some groups of rabbits live with the disease and cope okay, some die horrible deaths as they've no immunity at all. Cattle from Thailand have built up immunity so just feel rough, while UK cattle (more messed about with genetically) have none and would be more ill and less liable to grow, breed, milk, etc.

[LotusElise]

Thanks for that explanation - it does make sense. I had a suspicion it would all come down to poor husbandry and economics.

[Hazell B]

All has become clear about the origins.

Fifty gleaming new pound coins say the cause of this outbreak will never be blamed on any one thing and they'll wriggle out of it by saying "we can't be sure" :mark:

After all, the government can't be blamed when there's an election to think about :s

[BDunnell]

Well, the last outbreak didn't exactly cost Labour the 2001 election, so I doubt that most of the country sees it as a huge issue now. I don't get how the government can really be blamed to any extent for this current case, anyway.

[Hazell B]

Err, what?

They run one of the possible causes and licence the other as capable.
You may not see it (and I'm sure we can all guess why :rolleyes: ) but the NFU, farmers in general and locals in the area pretty much all blame them 100%. I'll stick with what they say.

[Drew]

Fifty gleaming new pound coins say the cause of this outbreak will never be blamed on any one thing and they'll wriggle out of it by saying "we can't be sure" :mark:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6935418.stm

Fifty of the Queen's shiniest, please :uhoh:

[BDunnell]

Err, what?

They run one of the possible causes and licence the other as capable.
You may not see it (and I'm sure we can all guess why :rolleyes: ) but the NFU, farmers in general and locals in the area pretty much all blame them 100%. I'll stick with what they say.

I see the point, of course, but can't help but feel that lumping all the blame on the Government is unjustified, as it so often is in reality.

[Hazell B]

Fifty of the Queen's shiniest, please :uhoh:

Nice try Drew :p :

Terms like 'strong possibility' don't count in court, so they don't here. On News 24 they were on about drains, allotments and all sorts of stuff. All possibles. A cleaner not washing her hands after handling virus covered items could simply be to blame, of course. I still don't think we'll ever have a definitive blame source. It avoids compensation claims ;)

By the way, an auction house for livestock is threatening legal action as they've done everything the government said they had to after the last breakout and now they're still looking at huge financial losses as paying for all the upgrades cost so much and they're closed again. Their staff, rates, insurance, etc. still has to be paid. They turn over about £80k a week on livestock, deadstock, storestock and OTM (older cattle) so I can see their point when that suddenly stops. Even the cafe francise they have is struggling already. I see why the government wants a no blame end to this - I would too in their shoes :s

[allycat228]

Fear of another case tonight outside the protection zone, I hope this turns out to be false, plus i wish they would not show pictures of dead cows on tv

[Hazell B]

.... i wish they would not show pictures of dead cows on tv

I'm glad they do. Without those pictures townies would never believe what it's like, as words can't explain some things at all.

When we had a horse die in an acident I had to get half a rugby team to carry her in to the horse box to take her to bury, then a JCB to get her out again. The lads in the pub thought it a very funny image, that and me having to use a digger to bury her, until they saw those slaughtered cattle a year or two later and realised just how big these animals are and how tricky to move. It's neither funny nor fun.

[Drew]

I'm glad they do. Without those pictures townies would never believe what it's like, as words can't explain some things at all.

When we had a horse die in an acident I had to get half a rugby team to carry her in to the horse box to take her to bury, then a JCB to get her out again. The lads in the pub thought it a very funny image, that and me having to use a digger to bury her, until they saw those slaughtered cattle a year or two later and realised just how big these animals are and how tricky to move. It's neither funny nor fun.

Indeed, it may not be a nice sight, but it's reality. I think these pictures and others should be shown, regardless of whether people don't like them, because it's what really happens in the big bad world.