A moment of prayer

[Galveston dunes]

Today a bridge collasped.The article and video feed are availible at msn.com.
No reason as yet and no total on the death toll. but its nasty. A major bridge collasped over the mississippi river.connecting Minneapolis Minn.
All I can do is pray because 5 days ago I was crossing that bridge.

[tinchote]

Unbelievable. So far it doesn't look as bad as it could have been, but the reports are very preliminary :s

[GridGirl]

Not good at all. My thoughts are vith the victims and their families.

News reports that I've seen this morning said the bridge was only inspected last year. I'm sure there will have to be a huge investigation into it, but I guess that is for a later time.

[stevie_gerrard]

Not nice news at all :( my thoughts are with those who have lost friends and family :(

[Donney]

I saw it today on the morning news it looked rather nasty.

[AndySpeed]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44034000/jpg/_44034417_cars2apman416.jpg

I can see more 4x4 vehicles on the bridge in this photo than any other car. Maybe it was the combined weight of so many gas-guzzling off roaders that don't actually go off road that caused it to collapse? After all the bridge is over 40 years old and I doubt that so many heavy vehicles existed then or in such quantities.

Maybe Americans (and people in general actually considering their increasing prominence on the roads in Europe) should realise that using a 4x4 might not be as safe as they thought....

[DonnieDarco]

I think its likely to be a combination of things that led up to the collapse, not least the work which was taking place on the bridge, and the heatwave they are currently experiencing there. I've also heard unconfirmed reports of cracks being noticed in parts of the bridge a year ago.

It must have been absolutely terrifying to have been on the bridge when it collapsed, my thoughts are with the families and friends of all those affected.

[Dave B]

Andy, the bridge would have weighed thousands of tonnes. I can't imagine a huge difference between loading it with a one-tonne car or a three-tonne SUV.

Anyway, my thoughts are with those who have lost friends and family, and with those recovering from this horrendous incident.

[Drew]

I'm pretty sure that the bridge was built in mind for things heavier than SUVs and that's a pretty petty post.

Condolences to the friends and family, you don't expect something like this to happen in a developed country :(

[tinchote]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44034000/jpg/_44034417_cars2apman416.jpg

I can see more 4x4 vehicles on the bridge in this photo than any other car. Maybe it was the combined weight of so many gas-guzzling off roaders that don't actually go off road that caused it to collapse? After all the bridge is over 40 years old and I doubt that so many heavy vehicles existed then or in such quantities.

Maybe Americans (and people in general actually considering their increasing prominence on the roads in Europe) should realise that using a 4x4 might not be as safe as they thought....

:down:

Hey, I'm in the first line complaining about the American waste, but this is ridiculous. Each of those big trucks you see in the pictures weigh about 10 to 15 times an SUV. So I find it very silly to blame the heavy SUVs for this.

[RaceFanStan]

I worked in highway engineering & construction for the State Highway Department for 34 years ...
My work experience comes from the actual work being performed in the field on the construction projects.
Too many times State Governments try to schedule road/bridge repairs & upgrades around a budget or politics.
=================================================
With what they are saying, I can read into what isn't being revealed :

There was a current repair project working on the bridge surface,
they were patching holes in the concrete surface which I suspect led to the bridge's failure,
any time the concrete deck surface has breaks in it, water can get to the resteel & corrosion can occur,
as the resteal rusts it's strength is greatly reduced & once too much rust occurs the resteel bars can fail,
I suspect that the repair project was a "too little/too late" venture & now a tragedy has occured,
I suspect that when the 1st section fell it created a domino effect causing the other sections to also fall.

It may not be important to some HOW it happened but it is an important fact,
only the ones who want to prevent it happening again in the future will look at what led to the failure.

It's sad that people lost their lives & people were injured but it should rally the State to take action.
The time to repair a bridge is not when it is subject to fail but BEFORE the bridge's condition gets that dangerous !

End Rant.

[CarlMetro]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44034000/jpg/_44034417_cars2apman416.jpg

I can see more 4x4 vehicles on the bridge in this photo than any other car. Maybe it was the combined weight of so many gas-guzzling off roaders that don't actually go off road that caused it to collapse? After all the bridge is over 40 years old and I doubt that so many heavy vehicles existed then or in such quantities.

The design of the bridge would have taken into account a number of different things, included factors in the calculations would have been extremes of weather as well as maximum loading. The maximum loading would have been calculated as a worse case scenario which would be a stop-start, nose to tail loading of maximum weight lorries across the complete length and span of the bridge. The engineer would then have designed the bridge not to withstand that loading, but would have added a safety factor on at least 1.5 times that of what was required to withstand that maximum loading.

I find it somewhat distasteful that you choose to use this thread for a rant about 4x4's when many people have lost their lives and many more families have been affected by this, but each to their own I guess.

My thoughts go with all of those who have suffered or lost loved ones in this tragedy.

[Storm]

Thats quite bad...I saw it on TV last night...also the report said that the bridge had a rating of 4 and was called structurally deficient.

[AndySpeed]

I find it somewhat distasteful that you choose to use this thread for a rant about 4x4's when many people have lost their lives and many more families have been affected by this, but each to their own I guess.

My thoughts go with all of those who have suffered or lost loved ones in this tragedy.

Yes, perhaps it was a bit misplaced. I also know that a few extra 4x4's on the bridge won't cause it to collapse, but my post was meant to highlight another point based on an observation from one of the photos. Thinking about it now, it was a little silly of me to go off-topic like that. :\

Believe me, my thoughts are also with those who have lost loved ones, or those with serious injuries. But at the end of the day, those very people aren't going to read this thread are they?

[Camelopard]

Lack of maintenance and budget cuts? Comparable to the following from Africa from:
http://www.abc.com.au/news/stories/2007/08/03/1995555.htm?section=justin.

"Congo train crash kills 100

Posted 3 hours 34 minutes ago
The death toll has risen to at least 100 after the crash of a goods train in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The train jumped the tracks in Western Kasai province.
An official of the railway operator said many of the dead were illegal passengers who has hitched a lift on the cargo carriages.
The accident is the second in the province in three weeks.
Such crashes are relatively frequent in the Congo, where the colonial-era rail network has undergone little maintenance since independence in 1960.
News of the accident was broken by the United Nations peacekeeping force in the Congo.
A UN spokesman says survivors were taken to the nearest hospital, 12 kilometres away, by bicycles or on foot.
The peacekeepers sent a helicopter with doctors and nurses to the crash site."

Note section about ".......network has undergone little maintenance.......".

A moment of prayer for the injured and dead and their families from this accident as well.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have been over that bridge in a rig, and one didn't think that bridge was going anywhere. To me, this is a total shock, and a very scary warning. As for the type of traffic it carried, believe me, what was on it wasn't really a factor if the bridge was maintained properly. As Stan has correctly pointed out this maybe the issue.

I do know that a bridge closer to me in "Hog's Hollow" over the Don River in Toronto carries about 280000 vehicles per HOUR at rush hour and is 14 lanes across and about 10 stories high will now have me looking at it differently. I do know they have done a ton of work on the bridge in the last few years, so I doubt highly there will ever be an issue, but after seeing that bridge in Minneopolis, It does make one think. As a trucker, I have driven over more bridges than many of you and many have made me wonder about how safe they are really. Last year in Montreal, an overpass collapsed and killed 3, and it was a "safe" bridge. How safe is SAFE?

Something like this makes you pray for the victims, but it also means we have to demand more accountability of those we elect to look after infrastructure. Instead of spending money on empty promises and pipe dream social engineering exercises, ensure the bridges are not falling down. This tragedy is a clarion call for those who have been sleeping in the aisle's of power, and if it isnt', it is the fault of us poor schmucks out here voting. Let us hope we dont' see another tragedy like this.

[Galveston dunes]

Stan again you are correct. I won't cut and paste the facts but its true we as a Public only want to better things AT ANY COST afterh uman casulties are are counted. It was 1995 when the bridge first got noticed and stamped as a 4 rating.With all the monies coming from the goverment for hi-way reconstruction I find it totally INHUMAIN for this thing to have happened.

On a personal note: I read Mrs. Bush is coming to Minn. to offer her condolences and Mr. Bush to view the damage.My GOD turn on the TV, or fly over in a helecoptor just send the money to the familys.You use a tradgedy to get political exposure.IMO your worse than the tradgedy itself.You'll block roads and use services that, at this time are truely needed elsewhere.
I'm sorry to speak badly of our president but to me this is just wrong.

By the way I also offer my condolences to those effected by the train derailment in the congo.

[Storm]

Galveston_dunes, I understand totally what you meant by the political exposure...this happens in my country all the time. Whenever a disaster occurs of this magnitude (of course more people get killed but life is cheap here), the politicians need to go there to tour the area..causing huge amount of police, services being diverted for their sake.

Only case I remember was when the PM Manmohan Singh decided not to tour the tsunami stricken area immediately so as to let the aid effort go on.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Stan again you are correct. I won't cut and paste the facts but its true we as a Public only want to better things AT ANY COST afterh uman casulties are are counted. It was 1995 when the bridge first got noticed and stamped as a 4 rating.With all the monies coming from the goverment for hi-way reconstruction I find it totally INHUMAIN for this thing to have happened.

On a personal note: I read Mrs. Bush is coming to Minn. to offer her condolences and Mr. Bush to view the damage. My GOD turn on the TV, or fly over in a helicoptor just send the money to the familys. You use a tragedy to get political exposure. IMO your worse than the tradgedy itself.You'll block roads and use services that, at this time are truely needed elsewhere.
I'm sorry to speak badly of our president but to me this is just wrong.

By the way I also offer my condolences to those effected by the train derailment in the congo.

I am going to offer up a contrary opinion of politicians and their role at the scene of disaster. Hurricane Katrina hit and Bush didn't get down to New Orleans until 4 days after. The beating he took in the press from that still echos about. IF Bush ignored or didn't go to the scene, he will get pummelled. He cant win on this one (and to a point, cant win with most people, the man is awkward at some events no matter what he does) but since he isn't running for re-election, he gains nothing by showing up or not showing up. He does however have a history of being pretty decent with the victims of tragedy and Laura Bush is a lot more popular at almost anything than her husband, so I would have to say their presence here is a plus, rather than a negative.

I think some politicans get in the way, but in this case, by showing up and talking to the families of the victims, he is helping, not hurting. Furthermore I am sure he doesn't want to slow down any search or rescue process, and made great pains to stay away from the WTC and Pentagon while they were searching for people still alive. Bush also delayed going to New Orleans for the same reason. It is a tight rope any leader walks, and god knows I hate glad handers, but Bush's unpopularity with a lot of people shouldn't be factored into whether he shows up or not. He is the President and if he didn't take an interest in something that has shot a wave of despair through a community as large as the Twin Cities, then he would be callous and uncaring.

By the way, try to fix spelling errors will ya?

[Hazell B]

The TV news coverage has left me upset for those involved, and their families, who were inocently going about their trip and were involved through no fault of their own.

It's also left me very angry that we live in a world where the first instinct is to get out a mobile phone camera and take news footage to sell to the agencies - rather than GO HELP THE VICTIMS :(

[Drew]

It's also left me very angry that we live in a world where the first instinct is to get out a mobile phone camera and take news footage to sell to the agencies - rather than GO HELP THE VICTIMS :(

I understand that, but I'm pretty sure if they had tried to help the victims, they would have been told to leave it to the professionals and rightly so.

Also, if nobody filmed what happened or the aftermath, would it receive such press? What if we'd never seen 9/11 and only just heard about it? The videos shocked most people and action was certainly taken afterwards. Plus photographs can be used to understand what happened and why.

[Galveston dunes]

This is for Mark in Oshawa; Or any one else who dares look at it.Happy trails Mark,and be safe.
Mark I hope I spelled your city right. I was a guest playing hockey there in the 70's but darn if I can spell it.

Busy bridges that need work
Thanks to USATODAY

Like the Minneapolis bridge that collapsed Wednesday, three-dozen bridges across the United States carry more than 125,000 vehicles a day and have received "poor" structure ratings. The ratings come from state inspections reported to the federal government in 2006:
State On bridge Crossing In or near: Avg. # of vehicles/day

Ala. I-65 U.S. 11, railroad Birmingham 148,800

Calif. I-880 Fifth Avenue, railroads Oakland 240,000

Calif. State Route 710 Los Angeles River Los Angeles 235,440

Colo. I-70 U.S. 6, railroad, city street Denver 136,744

Colo. I-25 South Platte River, railroad Denver 208,353

Colo. U.S. 6 Bryant Street Denver 148,339

Conn.-N.Y. I-95 Byram River, South Water Street Byram 127,200

Conn. I-95 Cherry Street and Bostwick Avenue Bridgeport 130,100

Conn. I-95 West River and SR 745 New Haven 135,200

Mass. I-95 and SR 128 Charles River Newton 160,000

Md.-Va. I-95 and I-495 ** Potomac River Washington, DC 172,975

Minn. I-35E Cayuga Street St. Paul 148,000

Minn. I-35E Railroad St. Paul 148,000

Minn. I-35E Pennsylvania Avenue St. Paul 144,000

Minn. I-35W Mississippi River, railroad Minneapolis 141,000

Mo. I-64E MetroLink light rail line St. Louis 135,892

Mo. I-64E Brentwood Boulevard St. Louis 158,620

Mo. I-64E Laclede Station Road St. Louis 142,196

Mo. I-64E Clayton Terrace St. Louis 142,196

Mo. I-64E McCausland Avenue St. Louis 139,458

N.J. Route 3 Passaic River, Route 21 Rutherford 144,200

N.J. Garden State Parkway Raritan River, Smith Street Perth Amboy 208,000

N.Y. I-678 I-495 New York 137,852

N.Y. I-87 Hudson River, River Road South Nyack 133,933

Pa. I-95 Palmer and Cumberland streets Philadelphia 173,662

Pa. I-95 Sergeant and Huntington streets Philadelphia 173,662

Pa. I-95 Tacony and Bridge streets Philadelphia 166,407

Pa. I-95 Comly Street Philadelphia 166,407

Pa. I-95 Magee Avenue Philadelphia 166,407

Pa. I-95 Longshore Avenue Philadelphia 166,407

Pa. I-95 Ramp Philadelphia 163,884

Pa. I-95 Ramp Philadelphia 161,310

Pa. I-95 State Road, railroad Philadelphia 161,310

Pa. I-95 Pennypack Creek Philadelphia 161,310

R.I. I-195 Chestnut Street, SR 12 Providence 161,153

Va. I-95 Lombardy Street, railroad Richmond 144,772


**— First span of new bridge opened in 2006; second is slated to open in 2008.

[Dave B]

It's also left me very angry that we live in a world where the first instinct is to get out a mobile phone camera and take news footage to sell to the agencies - rather than GO HELP THE VICTIMS :(

There was nothing that could have been done to help the victims while the actual collapse was in progress, that would have been suicidal with thousands of tonnes of concrete and steel raining down.

If I was present at such a tragedy, I too would film it but hand the recording to the authorities in case it helped with the investigation. It's not unusual for the authorities to release footage to the media. I don't know whether that was the case here.

[Hazell B]

The footage they first used on BBC was from a private mobile phone and showed the seconds after the fall - with the people still running away from the carnage.

Sorry, but I'm disgusted at the person filming, and those standing near him 'ooo'ing. Taking a few steps forward and asking if people needed help wouldn't be dangerous, especially as you're already there filming anyway :mark: It's therefore nothing at all like the Twin Towers, when danger was everywhere and far too many people were involved. Also, emergency services were there almost instantly, whereas they weren't on this bridge's edges. I remember us all saying what a wonderful job those who helped people had done at the time of the Twin Towers, and nobody saying how clever the mobile filmers where :s Funny how the world's changed.

I've a feeling there have been complaints as that piece of film hadn't been shown again while I was watching. The later reports used some footage from the other side of the bridge, showing much less detail.

[Galveston dunes]

I heard today that the video feeds of the bridge collapsing are from a 6 year old playing with his parents camera at the time of the collapse.

By the way the bridges over the MIssissippi river south of St. Louis [255]were fine around 7p.m. tonight. as were the the ones on hi-way 71 and 75 over the Ohio.

[Hazell B]

I'm talking about mobile phone footage of the aftermath, that was certainly an adult. Children aren't that tall.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Hazel, I agree with those ghouls who get footage of some of the most awful things going on. That said, when the steel is falling, there is a lot of danger in getting closer, and getting footage may help in the investigation. That said, the minute the bridge is done fallling, drop the camera and get to work helping.....

Galveston, You spelled it right, and thanks for the update. Out of your list, I have been over a few of those bridges. Considering the amount of miles of interstate I have been over, it is for the most part a pretty safe system, but some states have to get on with fixing roadways and viaducts for sure.

I think the greatest problem is most governments get up in chasing votes and "sexy" projects. Fixing bridges isnt' "Sexy" for votes...but it in the end prevents disasters. Politicians though figure it will be fixed on someone else's watch...