Vettel replaces Speed at Toro Rosso

[ArrowsFA1]

The BMW Sauber team have released Sebastian Vettel to drive for Scuderia Toro Rosso, the German squad announced on Tuesday.
Twenty year-old Vettel was BMW's third driver and he had been linked with the Toro Rosso seat after comments from American Scott Speed that he would never drive for the Italian squad again following an altercation at the Nurburgring with team boss Franz Tost.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61232

Farewell Scott :confused:

[osg]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61232

Farewell Scott :confused:

absolutely.

[ArrowsFA1]

It's been confirmed.


Sebastien Vettel will replace American Scott Speed at the Toro Rosso team from the Hungarian Grand Prix, the Italian outfit have confirmed.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61233

[jens]

Good luck to Scott for the future! Hopefully he'll find a decent seat somewhere (Champ Car?).

But I'm very interested in Sebastian's debut. Considering that he has no experience with STR, then I guess it would be a great achievement if he can match Tonio in the first few races. On July 3 he became 20 years old and now it's time to show his worth in top series. It won't be easy to make an impression in a team like STR, also considering Red Bull's attitude to its young drivers' programme, but the chance has been given and it's important to impress as quickly as possible as the results are expected from rookies straightaway nowadays.

[ChrisS]

Does this also end Speed's relationship with Red Bull or is he still sponsored by them?

[tinchote]

Not very surprising, isn't it? STR is looking like very improvised now, after a decent beginning. Let's see how they do for the rest of the season. Quite a challenge for Vettel.

Suggestion to moderators: maybe this should be merged with the existing Scott Speed thread?

[Valve Bounce]

Considering that Vettel hasn't even driven the Torro Rosso before, it would be most unfair to judge him by any performance until he is used to the car and has some F1 races under his belt. Maybe next year, if he is still in this team.

[markabilly]

is the key

Why would he jump off to some team where the management is so mismanaged? Too me that is winng a battle only to lose the war...oh wait he needs th experience...sure he needs to to be hit in the head with a bat to see if it hurts...oh well another career is now Tost

If he survives to find anothet team that will be the mark of greatness....but unless he can bring a couple of great engineers from beemer world, so he will join the ranks of speedie luzzie and those other backmarkers a/ka/a losers..... :eek:

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe BMW is simply lending Vettel to Torro Rosso for hte rest of this year to gain some F1 racing experience.

[Flat.tyres]

Maybe BMW is simply lending Vettel to Torro Rosso for hte rest of this year to gain some F1 racing experience.

thats as I understand it.

[Roamy]

I think it is just to get race time - I wouldn't expect too much. I would supposed if I were Nick I would be a bit worried if he goes real well.

[Ranger]

Why would he jump off to some team where the management is so mismanaged?

Vettel is a Red Bull backed driver who is loaned to BMW. And yes, experience counts here - his career isn't going down by any means.

[RacinRandy]

With the plug pulled on Speed and the Indy GP, maybe the American sponcers should think about placing their money somewhere else! Also if all of a sudden Honda, Toyota, and Ferrari sales in this country start to drop, I'd be happy!

[truefan72]

Just as I predicted,

Speed did the dirty work in testing and then they would get rid of him before the hungarian GP. Well good riddance STR, I am sure Speed will land on his feet with another F1 team. His talent and pace are not in question here. In the final verdict, STR have made themselves look foolish from the top down and IMO have made themsleves hugely unattractive to any decent drivers.
Vettel is there becuase he is desperate to drive and has a strong Red Bull relationship, despite the fact that he has barely driven this year, despite the fact that he has never sat in an STR car, they have decided to place him in the car instead of the STR test driver on staff. Stupidly as well, if they wanted him in the car, why did they not axe speed before the training and let Vettel drive for 2-3 days in the car and turn in as many laps ( probably over 220) as he could prior to getting to Hungary. Liuzzi will be next. His silence in this matter is earning him no favors around the paddack. Better come clean and start making arrangements for 2008 quickly.

In the past few years, F1 has made it a bad habit to axe drivers in the middle of the season, this practice is completely abhorent in my book. It is hard to take anyone team serious. They seem to ask for 110% dedication from the drivers and then show them no loyalty in turn, There are only two examples in all this time that I can think of justified removals, which were Albers this year and Ide last year. all the others including today's were/are pure political BS.

I will continue to support Speed and wish him nothing but the best. He will surely find meaningful employment with one of the other teams out there. His youth, experience and talent make him a marketable commodity for any half decent team.

[markabilly]

Just as I predicted,

Speed did the dirty work in testing and then they would get rid of him before the hungarian GP. **** they have decided to place him in the car instead of the STR test driver on staff. *****Liuzzi will be next. His silence in this matter is earning him no favors around the paddack. Better come clean and start making arrangements for 2008 quickly.

In the past few years, F1 has made it a bad habit to axe drivers in the middle of the season, this practice is completely abhorent in my book. It is hard to take anyone team serious. They seem to ask for 110% dedication from the drivers and then show them no loyalty in turn, .


Well, now breaking new ground here, next you will be alluding to leadership by example

No not that is not the corporate way...greed is good.....loyalty is for dogs who are to be used to promote your interests, use as a scapegoat and then move on.

[stevie_gerrard]

I think it's a step back for Vettel, who was extremely good in the BMW. I don't think the Toro Rosso will quite be quick enough for the vast amounts of talent he has. I hope he does well though, he seems a really good prospect for the future of F1

[Sleeper]

Disappointing, but hardly a surprise. STR has badly managed its drivers for a while now and after what I have heard recently Tost is someone I really wouldnt want to drive for. Good luck to both Speed, who deserves a ride that can last a race and let him show his ability, and Vettel, who will probably need it there.

[N. Jones]

is the key

Why would he jump off to some team where the management is so mismanaged?

I believe this is because he was on loan to BMW from STR and I think (by the way it was worded in the stories I read) that STR could call Vettel back at any time.

I could be wrong though....

[murrayfan]

In the past few years, F1 has made it a bad habit to axe drivers in the middle of the season, this practice is completely abhorent in my book. It is hard to take anyone team serious. They seem to ask for 110% dedication from the drivers and then show them no loyalty in turn, There are only two examples in all this time that I can think of justified removals, which were Albers this year and Ide last year.

it's not a bad habit albers ran out of money and spyker need it and as for ide
he thought his super aguri could fly over the side of albers spyker at imola last year and had his super licence taken away from him :)

[call_me_andrew]

Well it's obvious who the loser in all this is: Vettel.

[markabilly]

it's not a bad habit albers ran out of money and spyker need it :)


True loyalty to money that only money can buy

[Dazz9908]

Speedy got a bit too mouthy and really didn't appreciate the privilege situation he was in,
HE should of kept his gob closed and try for another seat even a test seat, then denounce STR in stead he lost his drive and any chance of an F1 Drive!

He should have concentrated on Head down bum up & try for results in stead Head swell and feet getting too big for his boots.

Speed has only himself to blame, as opportunities like this are the pot of gold under the rainbow!, silly boy!

[truefan72]

Speedy got a bit too mouthy and really didn't appreciate the privilege situation he was in,
HE should of kept his gob closed and try for another seat even a test seat, then denounce STR in stead he lost his drive and any chance of an F1 Drive!

He should have concentrated on Head down bum up & try for results in stead Head swell and feet getting too big for his boots.

Speed has only himself to blame, as opportunities like this are the pot of gold under the rainbow!, silly boy!


ridiculous,

I would love to see how you would react to your boss constantly undermining you for two years, while you tried to keep a professional demeanor, providning you with inadequate tools to do the job and expecting you to challenge the best. On top of that he constantly berates you and makes it clear that a) you are not his preferred driver, b) is actively looking and has offered another person your job, c) tried to get you to take a paycut out of greed, and then to top that personally and physically attacks you in front of other people and then denies the incident. Finally he lets you do all the grunt work and then fires you right before the main event.

At which point do you remain quiet and "count your blessings" for this wonderful priviledged opportunity bestowed on you. LOL give me a break.I wouldn't consider that job a priveledged opportunity for which I should deal with that type of BS.

Your comments just prove how little you actually know about the situation. I suggest you read up beyond the headlines before posting such wayward comments.

[Valve Bounce]

Good points.

[Hawkmoon]

The only way this will hurt Vettel is if Liuzzi blows him away. If he's quicker than Liuzzi then it's Liuzzi who will suffer.

If Vettel goes well it could be a Vettel/Bourdais line up for STR next year.

[truefan72]

The only way this will hurt Vettel is if Liuzzi blows him away. If he's quicker than Liuzzi then it's Liuzzi who will suffer.

If Vettel goes well it could be a Vettel/Bourdais line up for STR next year.

yep, you are totally on point there

should be interesting. In a way Vettel is now representative of STR while Liuzzi represents himself and speed's arguements ( albeit quietly from liuzzi) so if Vettel does well then it confirms the STR management logic, if Liuzzi does better then we all know that STR was full of s***

Not only does Vettel have to do better than Liuzzi, he has to do better than what Speed did, which was to customarily run in the lower mid pack (positions 9-14). As well as do great at the starts, as well as to overtake faster cars during a race...we will see

[Cozzie]

This isn't the best move Vettel could have made but I can really not see BMW giving him a race drive in the near future as both Heidfeld and Kubica are very settled and lightning quick!

[wmcot]

I would love to see how you would react to your boss constantly undermining you for two years, while you tried to keep a professional demeanor, providning you with inadequate tools to do the job and expecting you to challenge the best. On top of that he constantly berates you and makes it clear that a) you are not his preferred driver, b) is actively looking and has offered another person your job, c) tried to get you to take a paycut out of greed, and then to top that personally and physically attacks you in front of other people and then denies the incident. Finally he lets you do all the grunt work and then fires you right before the main event.


Hey, let's not be bringing MY job into this!!!! No need to get personal! ;)

[vin]

Speed good or no???

[slowkarter]

Go get 'em Scott, but not in F1 please. Come home where you are appreciated!
Michael was at the top of his game when he left for F1 and was never the same after that experience.
Gurney and Hill both had their sons (reasonably good talents) overlooked!
Head to head in equal cars, European drivers are no better (regardless of what "Talladega Nights: The Legend of Ricky Bobby" implies)!
With that name (Speed) there has to be some truth to it!

[jso1985]

Vettel is gonna suffer a lot, specially in Hungary, being in a crap car that he hasn't driven before ain't gonna be an easy task!

But I think he will outpace Liuzzi by the end of the year.

As for Speed, he never impressed me, not that I think he's a slow driver but he never showed anything spectacular to me, never managed to clearly outpace Liuzzi so unless he becomes a test driver I think his F1 career is over

[Wilderness]

The only way this will hurt Vettel is if Liuzzi blows him away. If he's quicker than Liuzzi then it's Liuzzi who will suffer.

If Vettel goes well it could be a Vettel/Bourdais line up for STR next year.
It will more than likely hurt Vettel, especially on the crap STR chassis. The only worse thing he could have done would have been to take over Albers' Spyker. At the top level, how many races did it take Alonso and Kimi to fully adjust to their respective rides after switching teams (including winter testing)? How many races did it take Rubens after going to Honda? Or Ralf, who is still adjusting to the Toyota...

The best he can hope for is to match Liuzzi's pace by year's end.

[ClarkFan]

Maybe BMW is simply lending Vettel to Torro Rosso for hte rest of this year to gain some F1 racing experience.

And good luck to Vettel with that, but I suspect that none of the experience will be good. Hope for his sake he has a guaranteed lifeline back to BMW, since he will need/want it. :\

ClarkFan

P.S. Wonder how soon before "For Sale" is the major sponsor on the side pods?

[Placid]

Just as I predicted,

Speed did the dirty work in testing and then they would get rid of him before the hungarian GP. Well good riddance STR, I am sure Speed will land on his feet with another F1 team. His talent and pace are not in question here. In the final verdict, STR have made themselves look foolish from the top down and IMO have made themsleves hugely unattractive to any decent drivers.
Vettel is there becuase he is desperate to drive and has a strong Red Bull relationship, despite the fact that he has barely driven this year, despite the fact that he has never sat in an STR car, they have decided to place him in the car instead of the STR test driver on staff. Stupidly as well, if they wanted him in the car, why did they not axe speed before the training and let Vettel drive for 2-3 days in the car and turn in as many laps ( probably over 220) as he could prior to getting to Hungary. Liuzzi will be next. His silence in this matter is earning him no favors around the paddack. Better come clean and start making arrangements for 2008 quickly.

In the past few years, F1 has made it a bad habit to axe drivers in the middle of the season, this practice is completely abhorent in my book. It is hard to take anyone team serious. They seem to ask for 110% dedication from the drivers and then show them no loyalty in turn, There are only two examples in all this time that I can think of justified removals, which were Albers this year and Ide last year. all the others including today's were/are pure political BS.

I will continue to support Speed and wish him nothing but the best. He will surely find meaningful employment with one of the other teams out there. His youth, experience and talent make him a marketable commodity for any half decent team.

I do not mind having Speed to test with another team.

Hopefully, and a prayer. I like to see Williams to look at Speed.

Williams let an American slip through their fingers in 1990 - Little Al.

[Stuartf12007]

Sorry but speed just was'nt up to the job

good luck to Vettel

[Dazz9908]

ridiculous,
that's your point of view, and your welcome to it! :cool:


I would love to see how you would react to your boss constantly undermining you for two years,
For two Years or only this Year , Remember Gerhard Berger Stuck by him at season's end last year saying no driver change for 07, true to his word!

while you tried to keep a professional demeanor,What by becoming the most unpopular driver in the paddock


providning you with inadequate tools to do the job and expecting you to challenge the best. Speed new the team had limited funds, and would be using hand me down equipment, I think the team expected him to do his best and they new challenging top teams is unrealistic, come on get real with this statement :rolleyes:


On top of that he constantly berates you and makes it clear that a) you are not his preferred driver, b) is actively looking and has offered another person your job,
Same for Liuzzi, and any under performing driver, Scott was backward in his opinion of the team either.

c) tried to get you to take a paycut out of greed,Not unprecedented, Villeneuve copped the same hat BAR/Honda,
and then to top that personally and physically attacks you in front of other people and then denies the incident.
http://www.motorsport.com./news/article.asp?ID=263640&FS=F1[font=verdana,arial,helvetica][size=84]Toro Rosso co-owner Gerhard Berger and team principal Franz Tost have recently made it no secret that they are unhappy with the performance of Speed and teammate Tonio Liuzzi. After the European GP, where both drivers crashed out in the waterlogged conditions, Speed and Tost had a flaming row and the American alleged that Tost was 'out of control' and had physically accosted him.
Finally he lets you do all the grunt work and then fires you right before the main event.
http://www.motorsport.com./news/article.asp?ID=263640&FS=F1[font=verdana,arial,helvetica][size=84]Speed was testing for the team at Mugello last week but had already said that he did not want to work with Toro Rosso any more. Vettel was reportedly present at that test but did not drive the car
At which point do you remain quiet and "count your blessings" for this wonderful priviledged opportunity bestowed on you. LOL give me a break.I wouldn't consider that job a priveledged opportunity for which I should deal with that type of BS. F1 is very exclusive club, which many aspire to and only 1% achieve it, and out of all top line US drivers he was picked, Plus Scott placed several demands on the thinking Liuzzi was getting more attention, (totally due to Liuzzi being faster than him last year on average) proof of this was at last years Canadian GP, Where on the Grid , his Radio chatter was broadcasting on TV,where he was demanding same amount of Dry Ice as his teammate "Or there will be Hell to pay".


Your comments just prove how little you actually know about the situation. I suggest you read up beyond the headlines before posting such wayward comments.
My comments are my opinion, as your comments are yours.
Your comments are a little mixed with your emotions, distorting the truth a little, He is your man and I expect nothing less from his loyal fans.
It's not all his fault nor the teams, there are always two sides in disagreements, and truth will never come out in it's entirety.

I personally don't think he's the best the US has to offer, Marco Andretti, and Sam Hornish Jr.are two who would be big in f1 if given the chance.

[truefan72]

that's your point of view, and your welcome to it! :cool:

My comments are my opinion, as your comments are yours.
Your comments are a little mixed with your emotions, distorting the truth a little, He is your man and I expect nothing less from his loyal fans.
It's not all his fault nor the teams, there are always two sides in disagreements, and truth will never come out in it's entirety.

I personally don't think he's the best the US has to offer, Marco Andretti, and Sam Hornish Jr.are two who would be big in f1 if given the chance.

First and foremost, Speed isn't even close to my favorite driver, But I know BS when I see it. If this situation were to occur to another driver, then I would be placing the same comments here. Especially if the driver had some ability. I didn't like the way Klien or Villeneuve or Montoya left F1 either, but even more distressing is when the fans choose to believe the misinformation spread by the teams or ascribe to basically repeating baseless innuendo about a driver.
I criticize drivers fairly as well as praise them. My biggest gripe with you was that you seem to think that Speed should be grateful to be driving STR no matter what, and that can't be further from the truth. Over the years ( and I go back to watching F1 to about 77-78) there have been numerous drivers unhappy about their situation, and even of recent, Alonso seemed to gripe, but I don't recall any post of yours, exclaiming him to be happy to be part of the 1% exclusive club...etc.
I contend the opposite with you and suspect you simply don't like Speed which in turn is affecting your judgment.


I personally don't think he's the best the US has to offer, Marco Andretti, and Sam Hornish Jr.are two who would be big in f1 if given the chance.

BTW, F1 isn't a representative series where we judge a driver based on his country. The United States is under no obligation to "offer" drivers to F1. It is about the individual and their pursuits. Wishing to see Hornish, or Andretti racing in F1 is your prerogative, but it should be of no consequence from which country they hail. Until we start thinking more about the individual and less about his nationality, we probably won't have a rational discussion about merit/performance and ability. Scott Speed is an American, who was part of Red Bull's young driver program, lived in Austria, drove for an Italian Team, with Ferrari engines, with chasis built by Brits, sporting a multitude of global brands. So where exactly being an American driver factors into his ability is beyond me.

[Dazz9908]

My biggest gripe with you was that you seem to think that Speed should be grateful to be driving STR no matter what,............. and even of recent, Alonso seemed to gripe, but I don't recall any post of yours ........exclaiming him to be happy to be part of the 1% exclusive club...etc.
No Not my point at all, My point was as anew and possible up coming driver, it was he's job to make the the best of a bad situation, to stand pout on the track in evil car and get noticed by bigger and better teams and move on up. I give credit when credit is due, and knock them when the deserve it. Another point I made is Scott landed at STR and acted like he was world No.1, and voice his dismay when he was treated equally, prove it don't expect it.

......But hey, I can't be online all the time and comment on every single thing as you obviously must do. I have a life, I comment when I can or wish too and I feel free to do so and express my opinion as you very much do.. :p :



I contend the opposite with you and suspect you simply don't like Speed which in turn is affecting your judgment. Feel free too, but don't expect every one to feel the same as do, no matter what. :rolleyes:





BTW, F1 isn't a representative series where we judge a driver based on his country. The United States is under no obligation to "offer" drivers to F1. It is about the individual and their pursuits. Wishing to see Hornish, or Andretti racing in F1 is your prerogative, but it should be of no consequence from which country they hail. Until we start thinking more about the individual and less about his nationality, we probably won't have a rational discussion about merit/performance and ability. Scott Speed is an American, who was part of Red Bull's young driver program, lived in Austria, drove for an Italian Team, with Ferrari engines, with chasis built by Brits, sporting a multitude of global brands. So where exactly being an American driver factors into his ability is beyond me.
It was well known that Red Bull wanted a American driver in F1, Scott fitted the bill at the time in their eyes, my point if they wanted a wanted American they should have gone for a proven one or two. as others have pointed out in this thread!
Placid[/b]] Williams let an American slip through their fingers in 1990 - Little Al.] think what you want and feel free to keep attacking me, at least your leaving some other poor bugger alone :D

[wmcot]

Sorry but speed just was'nt up to the job

good luck to Vettel

But IF Vettel ends up only being on pace with Liuzzi, then Berger and Tost will look pretty foolish.

I imagine the Vettel might have quite a bit of adjusting to do coming down from testing (and racing) the quick BMW to the lowly STR. He'll have quite a bit to "unlearn."

[Valve Bounce]

But IF Vettel ends up only being on pace with Liuzzi, then Berger and Tost will look pretty foolish.

I imagine the Vettel might have quite a bit of adjusting to do coming down from testing (and racing) the quick BMW to the lowly STR. He'll have quite a bit to "unlearn."

Well, I suppose if Liuzzi runs into somebody in a Spyker or vice versa, which is not unusual, and vettel doesn't, then Vettel might finish ahead of him.

[ArrowsFA1]

Williams let an American slip through their fingers in 1990 - Little Al.
Unser tested for Williams at Estoril in 1991 and according to Nigel Roebuck:

"...at the time Al was regarded as one of the real hotshoes in CART, but his run in the Williams was described by one team member as, "Embarrassing, to be honest. For a start, he clearly wasn't anything like fit enough. After a few laps in the car, he could hardly move his head." And were his times slow? I asked. "Not as quick as that..." came the answer."
So to suggest that Williams let Unser "slip through their fingers" is a little misleading.

[truefan72]

No Not my point at all, My point was as anew and possible up coming driver, it was he's job to make the the best of a bad situation, to stand pout on the track in evil car and get noticed by bigger and better teams and move on up. I give credit when credit is due, and knock them when the deserve it. Another point I made is Scott landed at STR and acted like he was world No.1, and voice his dismay when he was treated equally, prove it don't expect it.

......But hey, I can't be online all the time and comment on every single thing as you obviously must do. I have a life, I comment when I can or wish too and I feel free to do so and express my opinion as you very much do.. :p :

Feel free too, but don't expect every one to feel the same as do, no matter what. :rolleyes:




It was well known that Red Bull wanted a American driver in F1, Scott fitted the bill at the time in their eyes, my point if they wanted a wanted American they should have gone for a proven one or two. as others have pointed out in this thread! think what you want and feel free to keep attacking me, at least your leaving some other poor bugger alone :D


all this doesn't change your initial argument which is flawed to the core. Resorting to unnerving comments about time spent online is laughable since you are the one disecting every statement of mine, and by your number of post compared to mine with a more recent join date would suggest, perhaps you have more time on hand than you think.

Anyway, I'm not going to get into a bitch fest with you. I wish you all the best in your rationale and please understand, challenging your comments are a far cry from attacking you. :)

[Valve Bounce]

I'm not a mod - far from it and I do very often make silly comments.
But can I sak you two to take a step back and think about what you are actually squabbling about ? Maybe it's just school kids stuff, and best left out of the forum?

OK, If I'm wrong, tell me to bugger off. :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

I do very often make silly comments.
I'll vouch for that :D :s mokin:

[truefan72]

its actually hilarious, read the posts and you'll see.
it's actually on point and pertinent to this thread
versus meandering off into an unrelated subject.

anyway, Friday practice is only a day away, and we will get back to the weeekends events, with two new drivers taking the grid.

[Roamy]

hey what is this thread about???
Scott Speed has made no comments since his departure. Wonder what he is
going to do. eh Ferrari test driver???? would be a good move by ferrari.

[Schnell]

I liked Speed's spirit myself, his driving and speaking his mind, who knows what was really going there? One things for sure Austrians are difficult people to work with, maybe Vettel's 'Germanic Vays' will see him through?

Whatever after his superb debut point at Indy, he's going to find the TSR a differant kettle-of-fish to a "BMV"!

I for one will be studing his sectors and lap times in practice, Qually and the race compared to Liuzzi with great interest!

[Valve Bounce]

So far, so good!! He has posted times better than some more recognised layers. Now to P2.

[osg]

Speed good or no???

Good? He wasn't even Mediocre.......

[markabilly]

So far, so good!! He has posted times better than some more recognised layers. Now to P2.


Yeah right--nothing that speed was not already doing....a couple of hundredth faster than Luizzie, and still at the bottom of the field..HHAHAHAHAH

..well the cute little boy is a german--indeed mush sweeter lookin boy than speed, and since he be german with all that german- austro investment, they can get some payback in terms of german pr--you know eat more sauerkraut with your red cow piss, so you can be tiny and cute like me---who says there is not commercial greed based on nationalism

Biggest difference is that there is a picture where it looks like both berger and tostie flakes have both got the little bugger by the neck...enuff to make me toss my redbull in the toilet...nasty stuff, why anyone would drink that cow piss is beyond me :eek:

Now does berger look like someone to be trusted...and a little bit "gay" with his new boy http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2007/8/6572.html

[Valve Bounce]

Not bad - he's keeping up with Liuzzi.

[markabilly]

Not bad - he's keeping up with Liuzzi.


Vittels and liuzzie side by side...at the bottom of the heap.....the more things change, the more they remain the same...let see who had by far the best ever practice time overall among all the drivers at red cow this year in all the races and where was that??


It ain't the driver no more..it da car...how boring...

simple enough, the difference in time between the two can be who had full tanks and who had empty tanks

[markabilly]

Not bad - he's keeping up with Liuzzi.


Practice 2;
Liuzzie blows away vettie, leaving him in the dust :burnout:

Now that liuzzie is makin some :hot: go baby go, stay in fourth place from the bottom, you can do it!!!!Make that red cow go Mooooo uhooooooo


Source: "Liuzzi and Vettel were close together, in 19th and 20th places on 1m 23.136s and 1m 23.148s respectively, which left the Spykers in their usual places."

Nothin like kickin butts on those Spykers!!!!

[tinchote]

Practice 2;
Liuzzie blows away vettie, leaving him in the dust :burnout:



:eek:

1/100th of a second, what a difference :rolleyes:

[murrayfan]

vettel has singed a deal for 08

[markabilly]

:eek:

1/100th of a second, what a difference :rolleyes:


Whom are you kidding??He was 12/100th of a second faster, not a mere 1/100th of a second.......in the world of red cow, that is much faster, and obviously demonstrates superior drivng skills of a useless driver

And Vettie wonder boy running ahead of Spkyers.WOWOW OH WOW....man that is some tough pedal to the floor drivin--thos second rate austrians (a well known fact is austria is the incestous result of hungary and germany messing around with each other---hence the hunagarian grand prix is a perfect place for the red cow intro of the new boy......) shure enuff know to blow away themselves....

[tinchote]

Whom are you kidding??He was 12/100th of a second faster, not a mere 1/100th of a second.......in the world of red cow, that is much faster, and obviously demonstrates superior drivng skills of a useless driver

And Vettie wonder boy running ahead of Spkyers.WOWOW OH WOW....man that is some tough pedal to the floor drivin--thos second rate austrians (a well known fact is austria is the incestous result of hungary and germany messing around with each other---hence the hunagarian grand prix is a perfect place for the red cow intro of the new boy......) shure enuff know to blow away themselves....


Before being overly agressive, you should try and check your math: between 1m 23.136s and 1m 23.148s, the difference is 0.012 sec, or 12/1000th (thousand). So, if you want to be precise, It's not 1/100th but 1.2/100th. It looks like you are the one who is kidding. You are really agressive, and I don't know why. If you are frustrated or something, I don't think the forum is the place to vent that.

And I have no idea why you are trying to bash the guy. No driver will go faster than what his car can do. And for someone who is driving the car for the first time, Vettel did a good job.

[wmcot]

For his first drive in the car, Vettel is doing well. On pace with Liuzzi. Imagine how he might go when he gets comfortable with the car!

I was skeptical, but now I am a bit impressed. I wonder how he would do in a first rate car (like next to Hamilton??)

[truefan72]

Before being overly agressive, you should try and check your math: between 1m 23.136s and 1m 23.148s, the difference is 0.012 sec, or 12/1000th (thousand). So, if you want to be precise, It's not 1/100th but 1.2/100th. It looks like you are the one who is kidding. You are really agressive, and I don't know why. If you are frustrated or something, I don't think the forum is the place to vent that.

And I have no idea why you are trying to bash the guy. No driver will go faster than what his car can do. And for someone who is driving the car for the first time, Vettel did a good job.

You are right there on the timing.
One wants to agree ( to a point) with his pov's but his tone and statements are so distasteful I wonder sometimes how/why the mods don't take notice of if. Where is Arrows and Pino when you need them.

Back to Vettel, I am unimpressed so far. He had to clearly outperform Liuzzi to justify STR's actions and IMO he hasn't done it so far. But let's see how Quali and the race goes before passing judgement.

And I really don't want to hear the excuses of his inexperience with the car, etc. STR got what they wanted. In their opinion he was ready to perform, So he shoiuld be judged by the same measure that was levied unto Speed and Liuzzi ( who I hear is out at seasons end). Remember speed had 2 days to get ready before the Australian GP last year.

[markabilly]

You are right there on the timing.
One wants to agree ( to a point) with his pov's but his tone and statements are so distasteful I wonder sometimes how/why the mods don't take notice of if. Where is Arrows and Pino when you need them.

.
What's a matter? Truth hurts...call momma and dadda, or just whine like Scott speedie (he grabbed me...think i am gonna cry...If tost really grabbed him, he should have decked him real hard)

As to Arrows. he is too busy body slamming jean Todt, to pay me any mind.

besides youse guys are too pompous and full of it, to know this is all entertainment, and that is why the audience base of this website is as small as it is :vader:

[markabilly]

For his first drive in the car, Vettel is doing well. On pace with Liuzzi. Imagine how he might go when he gets comfortable with the car!

I was skeptical, but now I am a bit impressed. I wonder how he would do in a first rate car (like next to Hamilton??)


Too late, he has already blown it by going now to not merely one, but two different teams...as RD says he is now a "recycled driver" and I would guess that this would also mean he is in that 50% of the field RD has deemed as "useless" drivers.

It does not really matter as a car needs to be properly set up for a driver to show his ultimate potential, so VL beating him, and him beating VL by a hundredth, tenth or a second on one particular lap, that really does not matter much in terms of who is ultimately the better driver (assuming that "better driver" is a meanigful concept that really makes that much difference anymore in a series where tech and engineers rule)

Now what would really be interesting would be to see Speedie next to ham in a maclerent....., even if only in testing...

[jso1985]

first time on the car and Vettel is not so off the pace of Liuzzi, what else you expected?(wonder if you will answer without insulting me or beign agressive..)

[wmcot]

Too late, he has already blown it by going now to not merely one, but two different teams...as RD says he is now a "recycled driver" and I would guess that this would also mean he is in that 50% of the field RD has deemed as "useless" drivers.

And how many drivers has RD had driving for him that have not been "recycled?" Let's see...ONE!!!

Senna was "recycled" and so were Prost and Hakkinen...too bad Dennis gets such bad, recycled drivers...I really feel sorry for him.

Oh well, one man's "recycled" driver is another man's "experienced" driver...

[jens]

And I really don't want to hear the excuses of his inexperience with the car, etc.

Well, IMO that's not an excuse, but reality. :p : Vettel jumped into STR for the first time when... yesterday?

At the present moment he is clearly struggling and needs time to settle in. The negative factor is that his reputation is falling during that process... THe positive side that at least Toro Rosso (or to say wider, the whole Red Bull company... but also BMW) has faith in him, having signed with him for 2008 too. So at least he has got plenty of time to prove himself. Although the STR team and its behaviour with the drivers is a bit strange and it's not impossible that they might sack even SV if he doesn't deliver quickly...

[markabilly]

And how many drivers has RD had driving for him that have not been "recycled?" Let's see...ONE!!!

Senna was "recycled" and so were Prost and Hakkinen...too bad Dennis gets such bad, recycled drivers...I really feel sorry for him.

Oh well, one man's "recycled" driver is another man's "experienced" driver...

Less than a week ago, RD gave an interview that said half the field was composed of useless drivers, that Ham had mclaren in his blood, unlike those "reycled" drivers who learned habits at other teams

[markabilly]

first time on the car and Vettel is not so off the pace of Liuzzi, what else you expected?(wonder if you will answer without insulting me or beign agressive..)
but nobody else.....big deal////I do not think that one can measure a driver until you set up the car to bring out the best of the driver...there was the time that the two bennetton drivers who replaced MS when he left, went to the same circuit with the same car that MS had used to win. Both were much slower---as in seconds slower--and just could NOT deal with the way MS had the car set up. Changed the car, and they became much faster...

then there was the time that MS test drove a sauber, several years ago. MS was much slower than any of the two regular drivers, and it was only after some changes were made to the car that he started getting down to their times......

But at red cow, that kind of car set up talent from the engineers just ain't there...and the drivers really do not have the experience (or perhaps the freedom) to do it....

[jens]

As much as the screen graphics showed, Vettel managed to keep Liuzzi's pace pretty well, driving only a few seconds behind the Italian until the latter was forced to retirement.

[Roamy]

also I don't imagine that Tonio is really busting his ass knowing full well that Toro wants to dump him.

[tinchote]

also I don't imagine that Tonio is really busting his ass knowing full well that Toro wants to dump him.

True. But, in any case, the guys drove just two races. He performed reasonably in both. Think about most F1 drivers, and try to remember anything remarkable about their first two races; in some cases something pops up, but in most nothing. Champions whose first race I remember: Prost,
Schumacher, Villeneuve (both), Alonso. Champions whose first race I don't remember: Piquet, Senna, Mansell, Hill, Lauda, Andretti, Scheckter, Hunt, Fittipaldi. Before that I was too young. But my point is that it doesn't have to be obvious from the first race how good someone is.

[vin]

Speed return!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ClarkFan]

Champions whose first race I remember: Prost,
Schumacher, Villeneuve (both), Alonso. Champions whose first race I don't remember: Piquet, Senna, Mansell, Hill, Lauda, Andretti, Scheckter, Hunt, Fittipaldi.

If you don't remember Sheckter's race, your memory may be failing. He had a massive off on the first lap at Silverstone, probably because he was trying to pass the whole field in one shot. :eek: I think he caused the race to be red flagged while they resorted things.

Andretti's first race was Watkins Glen in 1968. He put a Lotus 49 on the pole, but his race was a garden variety retirement while Stewart won.

ClarkFan
Who is very, very old. :s

[jens]

Although Sebastian hasn't had testing during the 3-week-long summer break, then his performance in qualifying at Ottodrome was again disappointing and makes me quite worried. :( It's clear that he needs more testing miles, but how much longer will he be forgiven for the lack of results?

On the other hand the whole stuff shows again that Toro Rosso's problem wasn't about drivers as Berger & co might have thought. Liuzzi managed to beat Vettel by a similar margin as Heidfeld in the US GP qualifying. Might make one think, how underrated Tonio and Scott really are!

[tinchote]

If you don't remember Sheckter's race, your memory may be failing. He had a massive off on the first lap at Silverstone, probably because he was trying to pass the whole field in one shot. :eek: I think he caused the race to be red flagged while they resorted things.

Andretti's first race was Watkins Glen in 1968. He put a Lotus 49 on the pole, but his race was a garden variety retirement while Stewart won.

ClarkFan
Who is very, very old. :s

:up:

Of course, I do remember Reutemann's first race (pole position in Buenos Aires!) :D

[Roamy]

Although Sebastian hasn't had testing during the 3-week-long summer break, then his performance in qualifying at Ottodrome was again disappointing and makes me quite worried. :( It's clear that he needs more testing miles, but how much longer will he be forgiven for the lack of results?

On the other hand the whole stuff shows again that Toro Rosso's problem wasn't about drivers as Berger & co might have thought. Liuzzi managed to beat Vettel by a similar margin as Heidfeld in the US GP qualifying. Might make one think, how underrated Tonio and Scott really are!

This was just collaboration between Mario and Berger. Scott speed would not bow down so he was replaced. They are just grooming Vettel for Nick's seat

[Placid]

Speed return!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For another team. Even if it means testing.

[markabilly]

none of this really matters!!

too hard to tell who would be the better driver at such a team...but explains why RS ain't going there....hard to blame the driver...well unless he is in a toyota, and they just do not know how to set it up to his style....

[Roamy]

For another team. Even if it means testing.

he is going to nascar - sorry - where the REAL men race.;

But then we just love to stay around here and watch coultard puke

[wmcot]

Vettel surely didnt impress in qualifying, being badly outqualified by Liuzzi. Let's see if he can do anything in the race.

[jens]

Alas nothing to cheer about his race performance either. He managed to beat the Spykers, but that was it... Hopefully he'll get a lot of testing miles with Toro Rosso in as short future as possible (next weekend?).

[truefan72]

Well
I guess it was the car then.
Speed had the better of liuzzi this year, liuzzi is outclassing Vettel

Good Move Berger, this was a clear example of cutting off the face to spite the nose

[gjalie]

Speed? what did he show? outclassed liuzzi? haha nothing special about him