Hoodies

[Hazell B]

One of my plant customers told me a very sad story on sunday.

Two years ago this week the customer's daughter was waiting for a bus after taking her four year old son to a kids pop concert. She was first in a long queue when the bus pulled up. Several hoodie wearing youths leapt to the front of the queue and when the woman asked them to wait as she had a young boy to get aboard they killed her.

Stone dead for opening her mouth.

Even though there were about forty witnesses, not one person could offer a description of the youths beyond the word 'black' and 'wearing a hood so I couldn't see his face'. Crime Watch featured the CCTV footage, from both streets and bus, but you couldn't see the faces. It's still an unsolved crime.

Now I know banning hoodies is just impossible and unfair on those of us who wear hooded garments, so won't suggest that. But what I do want to know is would anyone here, if they were a parent, allow their teenagers to wear hoodies? After all, they are wanting to wear a garment who's sole purpose is to cover the face. Why would they want to do that?

How many crimes are unsolved because the person was wearing this garment? And, more importantly, how many opportunist crimes were commited purely because the criminal knew he wouldn't get caught as he is pretty much faceless?

Baseball caps don't hide the face so much, before anyone says they'll just wear those instead if hoodies are banned.

[Daniel]

One of my plant customers told me a very sad story on sunday.

Two years ago this week the customer's daughter was waiting for a bus after taking her four year old son to a kids pop concert. She was first in a long queue when the bus pulled up. Several hoodie wearing youths leapt to the front of the queue and when the woman asked them to wait as she had a young boy to get aboard they killed her.

Stone dead for opening her mouth.

Even though there were about forty witnesses, not one person could offer a description of the youths beyond the word 'black' and 'wearing a hood so I couldn't see his face'. Crime Watch featured the CCTV footage, from both streets and bus, but you couldn't see the faces. It's still an unsolved crime.

Now I know banning hoodies is just impossible and unfair on those of us who wear hooded garments, so won't suggest that. But what I do want to know is would anyone here, if they were a parent, allow their teenagers to wear hoodies? After all, they are wanting to wear a garment who's sole purpose is to cover the face. Why would they want to do that?

How many crimes are unsolved because the person was wearing this garment? And, more importantly, how many opportunist crimes were commited purely because the criminal knew he wouldn't get caught as he is pretty much faceless?

Baseball caps don't hide the face so much, before anyone says they'll just wear those instead if hoodies are banned.
Very true. Which is why I don't really see a problem with people banning hoodies from their shops.

[fandango]

That's a very sad story. I not sure it makes an issue out of hoodies, though. These people don't sound like they worry about what they're wearing if they kill someone over such a thing as a queue.

[LotusElise]

Even though there were about forty witnesses, not one person could offer a description of the youths beyond the word 'black' and 'wearing a hood so I couldn't see his face'. Crime Watch featured the CCTV footage, from both streets and bus, but you couldn't see the faces. It's still an unsolved crime.


There's another school of thought that says that at least some of those witnesses knew exactly who the murderers were but are too afraid to say - afraid that they or their family will meet the same fate.

[BDunnell]

I own a hooded top. Ought I to start feeling victimised?

[GridGirl]

I'm currently wearing a hoodie as I've just been to the gym and been swimming. I'm not going to go out and knife someone, but you cant exactly stop people who might from wearing them either. Its a catch 22 situation really.

[Hazell B]

I own a hooded top. Ought I to start feeling victimised?

Why do you wear it with the hood up, hiding your face? It's hardly the same thing if you don't :rolleyes:

[Erki]

I wear a hoodie at evenings when I'm camping. Protects from mosquitoes. I don't see a point wearing a hoodie during day though. Last time I wore a hoodie at daytime was some six years ago... those days it was mostly an "in" thing, everyone wore it, how couldn't I wear a hoodie then? :)

I don't think hoodies are the root of the problem though. You can ban all things but we would have still gangs and criminals around. Doesn't make the story any less sad, obviously. :(

[Erki]

How can the hood be so big then so that it hides your face? I thought one has to wear a mask or a helmet to hide their face...

[Hazell B]

How can the hood be so big then so that it hides your face? I thought one has to wear a mask or a helmet to hide their face...


It was daylight, but with dark skin under large dark hoods they are hidden well enough.

That's the problem I think - some hoodies are just an item of clothing while others are specifically cut and shaped to allow a hidden face. Teenagers aren't stupid, they know which is which and will wear the face-hider version if they want to stay incognito.

A police officer told me that some time ago. He said if ever I saw a large hooded hoodie coming towards me in the streets after dark, to cross the road ASAP. He said they only wear them for one reason and it's not warmth. At the time I figured he was worried over nothing, but now I'm not so sure.

[BDunnell]

Why do you wear it with the hood up, hiding your face? It's hardly the same thing if you don't :rolleyes:

Well, self-evidently, I have the capability to if I want to.

[Daniel]

I own a hooded top. Ought I to start feeling victimised?


Why do you wear it with the hood up, hiding your face? It's hardly the same thing if you don't :rolleyes:

Seriously I enjoy having a laugh with both of you but please do get a room :mark:

[Hazell B]

Well, self-evidently, I have the capability to if I want to.

Yes, and I have the capability to lead with a superb right hook if I want to, but I don't. If you're not walking about with the hood up, it isn't the same thing as if you are. Now do you understand? :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

Yes, and I have the capability to lead with a superb right hook if I want to, but I don't. If you're not walking about with the hood up, it isn't the same thing as if you are. Now do you understand? :rolleyes:

No. Please do me the favour of explaining it again.

[Hazell B]

Trying to get the last word in, eh?
We knew you would :laugh:

[BDunnell]

Trying to get the last word in, eh?
We knew you would :laugh:

Laughing at your own jokes now, are you?

[Hazell B]

Better than trying to start bickering just for the sake of it when the thread was about a DEATH :mark:

No, not my joke actually. Somebody else's.

[Hazell B]

By the way, feel free to get your pathetic childish last word in like you always do.

I'm done with you now.

[BDunnell]

Better than trying to start bickering just for the sake of it when the thread was about a DEATH :mark:

A fine one to talk, if I may say so.

[Daniel]

Please shut up. Both of you!

[BeansBeansBeans]

People who wish to commit crime will tend to disguise themselves. If you ban hoodies, they'll use something else. Balaclavas, masks...etc. This was a horrific crime, and to simply focus on the fact they were using hooded tops to disguise themselves is utterly bizarre.

[Daniel]

People who wish to commit crime will tend to disguise themselves. If you ban hoodies, they'll use something else. Balaclavas, masks...etc. This was a horrific crime, and to simply focus on the fact they were using hooded tops to disguise themselves is utterly bizarre.
Would you feel the same if someone was trying to disguise their car numberplate?

[BeansBeansBeans]

Would you feel the same if someone was trying to disguise their car numberplate?

You legally must display your car number plate, and I can't think of a legitimate reason for not doing so. There are many reasons why someone might have their hood up.

[Daniel]

You legally must display your car number plate, and I can't think of a legitimate reason for not doing so. There are many reasons why someone might have their hood up.
How about when you're in a shop? Or walking down the street on a warm day? Merely trying to show the other side of the story of course.

[BeansBeansBeans]

How about when you're in a shop? Or walking down the street on a warm day? Merely trying to show the other side of the story of course.

Do you think someone capable of cold-blooded murder would turn into sweetness and light if they wore, say, a rollneck sweater instead or a hoodie?

I think we have to ask ourselves why there appears to be a sharp rise in youth violence. I don't think we'll find the answer by analysing their clothing habits.

[Daniel]

Do you think someone capable of cold-blooded murder would turn into sweetness and light if they wore, say, a rollneck sweater instead or a hoodie?

I think we have to ask ourselves why there appears to be a sharp rise in youth violence. I don't think we'll find the answer by analysing their clothing habits.
Do you think someone driving a car dangerously would drive in the same way if they had a plate on their car which tied the car back to them?

I never said hoodies were the cause of the violence. But knowing you can get away with it because you are anonymous surely doesn't help with regards to crime.

[Drew]

This is a sad story, that's true :\

I wear hoodies all the time. I rarely wear it with the hood up, unless it's raining or cold.

[janneppi]

I this what Hazell B refers?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_midlands/4159038.stm

[GridGirl]

I see wearing my hoodie purely as gymwear. I put it on, go the the gym, warm up, take it off and put it back on as a I leave. Then you read cases like the one below where todlers are being banned from wearing hoodies in shops. I'm not likely to go in a shop wearing mine, I dont really want anyone to see me in a post gym state, but I would like to feel that I would be allowed to go into a shop if I wanted to without the shopkeeper reaching for the panic button as soon as I walk in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/6288885.stm

[Mark in Oshawa]

Do you think someone capable of cold-blooded murder would turn into sweetness and light if they wore, say, a rollneck sweater instead or a hoodie?

I think we have to ask ourselves why there appears to be a sharp rise in youth violence. I don't think we'll find the answer by analysing their clothing habits.

At least there is one sane man in England.....

What a joke. Daniel earlier in the thread advocates banning Hoodies. As if that would make a prospective killer just give up the life of crime he is leaving? Give your head a shake.

So far, the UK has banned guns, banned improper political speech, taken government intervention in society to new levels (an article in the June 11th "Macleans" magazine here in Canada is my source) and the UK is leading the EU in violent crime, single moms, teenage alcoholism and drug use. I think banning Hoodies will just work dandy, along with everything else that has been done to address the ills of British society. Then I read about how maybe one should ban Hoodies and I realize, hey, you guys have it under control.

Nice.....I love Britain and what it represents to the world, and I just shake my head at what is happening to it now. One thing is for sure, the problem isn't the hoodie, it is the HOOD wearing the hoodie. Deal with him.....and don't ship him to us, we have a few too many of these idiots here now....

[Hazell B]

I this what Hazell B refers?


I can't get the link to work (probably my computer's fault, not a dodgy link) but as it's in the Midlands I doubt it. Can't remember the daughter's surname, so can't ever find a Crimewatch link myself.

Isn't the point that if these youths weren't wearing hoods over their faces, they would almost certainly have never commited this crime? They knew that after standing in a queue for a few minutes they still couldn't be identified, so have fewer worries when attacking a woman in plain view.

So again, if you were a parent, would you be happy with your child wearing clothing that's sole purpose is to hide their faces?

[BDunnell]

At least there is one sane man in England.....

What a joke. Daniel earlier in the thread advocates banning Hoodies. As if that would make a prospective killer just give up the life of crime he is leaving? Give your head a shake.

Very well put, as is GridGirl's point in the previous post.

It is all to do with the individual circumstance of the hoodie-wearer, rather than the garment itself. The sole purpose of a hoodie isn't always to hide the wearer's face — some people may do that, and for the wrong reasons, but not all. It's like suggesting that white vans be banned from our roads because of the number of them that are driven badly. It's a useful stereotype, and there may be some truth attached to it as there often is with stereotypes, but the problem isn't the vehicle.

[BDunnell]

So again, if you were a parent, would you be happy with your child wearing clothing that's sole purpose is to hide their faces?

I would like to think that most good parents would realise that what their children wear makes no difference to whether or not they are likely to commit a crime. What the child is like as a person is more important.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Hazell, give your head a shake. If I buy my kid a Hoodie and think he/she will use it to commit crimes, then I have bigger problems then the clothes Iam buying them. Parent your damn kids and they could wear anything they want because it is what you mould in their heart and heads that will make them citizens. You have to be out of your MIND to think by not buying a Hoodie for a problem child will keep them out of trouble. OH MYGAWD you people are scaring me!!!

[airshifter]

Guess what?

I have long hair, a beard, and a moustache.

And I'm not a criminal weed smoking biker either! :laugh:

[Storm]

There will still be scum like that on the streets, even if you ban 'hoodies' or whatever...and some of them will get away with such crimes no matter what they wear. :\

[LotusElise]

Getting rid of the "hoodie" element (we all know what that means - it's more than hoods) will take more than banning hoods in public.
They thought they could get away with it for far more reasons than the fact they were wearing hoods: decreased police presence/availability, lenient sentencing for young offenders, fear among the general public of reprisals.

[fandango]

...Isn't the point that if these youths weren't wearing hoods over their faces, they would almost certainly have never commited this crime? They knew that after standing in a queue for a few minutes they still couldn't be identified, so have fewer worries when attacking a woman in plain view.

So again, if you were a parent, would you be happy with your child wearing clothing that's sole purpose is to hide their faces?


A lot of non-murderous grunting teenagers go round with their hair or hoods or whatever hiding their faces, so while I wouldn't like it, I wouldn't take away their choice to do it. Did it myself.....

As for your first question above, I don't see how you can draw any logic from such an illogical, horrible act. The problem is the people, or the animals they've become, not the clothing. What enabled them to commit such a crime was not the fact of hiding their faces, but the fact that their values were that basic respect for life is less important than waiting your turn in a queue. How can you make any logical hypothesis after that?