Button 'throws his teddy out'

[Hazell B]

I don't know how true this story is, so please try and find a link before jumping down my throat about how wrong I am :mark:

This morning a friend told me he'd read in a UK newspaper (he couldn't remember which one) an interview with Jenson Button. A quote included the point that he didn't want to be in F1 if he couldn't drive a potential race winning car. His team had to improve a great deal or he was off next season.

Fair enough, I doubt any of the drivers would be happy in a heap of junk that had no chance. But threatening to leave if Honda don't deliver the goods?

Is it another case of rotten reporting or has Button set himself up for an easy way out if he's still crap next year?

[Roamy]

Well Hazel it makes not difference about the article or reporter. Button's ethics are on record. So you need only to look toward the end of the season. However Button's current problem is that all the potential winning seats are firmly taken. So perhaps Button better go to race car development school and learn that trade. Of he could always lobby for JV's return who was the only guy to make that sh!tbox go fast.

[Hazell B]

Short of getting Lewis Hamilton drunk at the Sports Personality of the Year bash then having compromising photos taken of him with a goat, I'd say Button's go no chance of that sweet drive, fousto :p :

[Roamy]

ha ha ha specially a white goat!!
Button needs to lobby for the removal of Nakamoron. F1 technology is a Brit game and if the japs want to train they should go to the irl or champcar.

[Easy Drifter]

Honda Dominates! IN IRL. Of course, they are the only engine, but they did drive Toy out, sort of.

[N. Jones]

Yeah - the lead story at planet-f1.com is about Jense saying he will quit if Honda can't produce a podium winning car...

[Hazell B]

Is he really saying he will quit, though?

Or is it a badly quoted item like usual?

Much as I dislike the weedy runt, I don't want to see him leave because the car's not fast enough. I want to see him sacked because he's not good enough :laugh:

Of he could always lobby for JV's return who was the only guy to make that sh!tbox go fast.

Or get Honda to sign Kubica.

Well, it took him only 3 races to get a better result than Villenueve ever managed in the same car.

[luvracin]

I don't want to see him leave because the car's not fast enough. I want to see him sacked because he's not good enough :laugh:
Even if he's sacked, hey will say he was made a scapegoat because the car was crap.

[nigelred5]

See my sig line, you decide why. :)

[Valve Bounce]

Let's look at it this way. Last week, ant was actually going faster than Rubens and was hounding him for much of the race. He came in for the last tyre change one lap ahead of Rubens and had the team fitted Intermediates insteaad of Full Wets, ant would have romped in ahead of Rubens. This is the guy who is actually performing better than bunsen so far this year.

Now some of you might remember that ant was Honda's test driver and is now driving in a second hand Honda for a Budget team, and if I remember correctly, ant out qualified bunsen as well.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that either Team Honda (with all their resources) is underperforming and being hammered by Team Budget Used Car Honda. Or one could infer that bunsen is not doing that well either. Take your pick.

Bunsen can sulk all he likes, but he won't get much higher up in the Team stakes than a Toyota or Williams. I don't see him displacing any of the drivers in McLaren or Ferrari, I don't see him being a favourite of Flav's and to be given a drive in the Renault, and I don't see him displacing either of the BMW drivers, unless Nick Heidfeld departs. But looking at the pecking order of drivers at the moment, the bunsen would be lucky to even get a drive in the Red Bull.

Bunsen won't win another F1 race. That's my prediction; F1 has passed him by.

[Hawkmoon]

It's not that unusual for a driver to leave a team because they produce rubbish for him to drive. Raikkonen pretty much did the same thing to McLaren. OK, his problem was reliability and not speed but it's the same principle.

I've never been a fan of Button but he is Top 10 material and his ability warrants a place in F1 ahead of the likes of Yamamoto and probably Liuzzi and Speed as well.

If Button does get out of his Honda contract, which is highly unlikely, I wouldn't mind betting that he ends up with Prodrive and David Richards. Button's only real success came under Richards so Button may want to try for a repeat dose.

[millencolin]

F1 technology is a Brit game and if the japs want to train they should go to the irl or champcar.

they have and did. Honda Dominated Champcar in the late 90's, then Toyota found some form and won some championships (Da Matta 02), then both jumped ship in 03 and kicked butt in the IRL, forcing Chevy to leave.

BUt honda have to dump their designer... nakaor... however you spell it. he was given a race winning car, and developed a pile of ****

[Valve Bounce]

It's not that unusual for a driver to leave a team because they produce rubbish for him to drive. Raikkonen pretty much did the same thing to McLaren. OK, his problem was reliability and not speed but it's the same principle.

I've never been a fan of Button but he is Top 10 material and his ability warrants a place in F1 ahead of the likes of Yamamoto and probably Liuzzi and Speed as well.

If Button does get out of his Honda contract, which is highly unlikely, I wouldn't mind betting that he ends up with Prodrive and David Richards. Button's only real success came under Richards so Button may want to try for a repeat dose.


It is highly unlikely that the teams you suggest, frequented by Yamamoto, Liuzzi, Speed or even the new Prodrive team will look like winning an F1 race in the bunsen's F1 lifespan.

Let's try the exercise again with a little more cerebral gusto!! :p :

[Hawkmoon]

It is highly unlikely that the teams you suggest, frequented by Yamamoto, Liuzzi, Speed or even the new Prodrive team will look like winning an F1 race in the bunsen's F1 lifespan.

Let's try the exercise again with a little more cerebral gusto!! :p :

I don't believe that Button litterally means that unless he's given race winning car he's quitting F1. I think he's trying to set the stage for a break for freedom from his Honda contract. He's done it before, after all.

I also didn't mean to suggest that he would go to Spyker or Torro Rosso. I mean't that Button is a much better driver than those team's current drivers and has the talent to be in F1.

I also think that Prodrive would be an option for Button. What other options does he have? Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and Renault are not serious options for the Englishman. Red Bull don't have a seat, Toyota would be a step backwards and I don't know if Sir Frank would have Button after Button-gate Part II a couple of years ago. Button knows the way Richards operates and if Richards were to get his hands on a McLaren MP4-22 then Button would indeed get a proven race winning car to drive.

Is that enough cerebral gusto for you Valve? ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I don't believe that Button litterally means that unless he's given race winning car he's quitting F1. I think he's trying to set the stage for a break for freedom from his Honda contract. He's done it before, after all.

I also didn't mean to suggest that he would go to Spyker or Torro Rosso. I mean't that Button is a much better driver than those team's current drivers and has the talent to be in F1.

I also think that Prodrive would be an option for Button. What other options does he have? Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and Renault are not serious options for the Englishman. Red Bull don't have a seat, Toyota would be a step backwards and I don't know if Sir Frank would have Button after Button-gate Part II a couple of years ago. Button knows the way Richards operates and if Richards were to get his hands on a McLaren MP4-22 then Button would indeed get a proven race winning car to drive.

Is that enough cerebral gusto for you Valve? ;)


Now you are starting to make some sense. However, leaving a factory team for Prodrive may not give the bunsen an improved winning chance; although I am clutching at straws in hoping/wishing/dreaming that next year's Honda will be a vast improvement on this year's dog/pig/mule.

Having said all this, I somehow get the feeling that competitive teams can get their hands on a good enough driver without going to the unfaithful/reneging/ship-jumping bunsen.

Quite honestly, unless Team Honda shows a remarkable improvement next year, and a Tsunami hits the front of the starting grid, I don't fancy the bunsen's chances of ever winning another race.

Of course, this is only an opinion, and I am sure several other forumers might disagree; but coming out of the woodwork to predict a win for the bunsen at this juncture is doubtful.

[wmcot]

I don't believe that Button litterally means that unless he's given race winning car he's quitting F1. I think he's trying to set the stage for a break for freedom from his Honda contract. He's done it before, after all.


I wonder if he can afford it again? $$$$?

[Roamy]

I don't think there is anywhere in F1 for him to go. He probably should shut up and figure out how to beat rubens. Plus will customer cars be as good as the source - I think not. Prodrive will have a hard time beating super aguri

[Valve Bounce]

I don't think there is anywhere in F1 for him to go. He probably should shut up and figure out how to beat rubens. Plus will customer cars be as good as the source - I think not. Prodrive will have a hard time beating super aguri

Right now, Team Honda has a hard time trying to beat anybody. :(

[leopard]

I think a condition mainly depends on two things, a will and a chance, how bad Button furiously had the complaint about bad performance of Honda he will not go anywhere if there is no team out there ought to trust him to drive.

If the target of his destination is about winning cars, then we might need to focus on either Ferrari or Mclaren, and BMW or Renault the second option. It seems such-and-such top runner teams are currently with their best drivers, there is no seat left for Button to go there.

He should have got offer from McLaren before Hamilton signing there, but there was no talk at all between them. It must be RD has no interest on him or Button and his management didn't ever make approach to go elsewhere from Honda and would make Honda the end of his career.

The fair parameter, but exceeding it preferable, for the success of Honda when they can easily beat the same japan car Toyota at regular basis and in one occasion steal at least a podium.

After all, hoping Honda next seasons if not this year, will have more instinct to develop the faster car and enable Button to dedicate his best performance better then this hardest season.

[jens]

Button will be 28 next year? Would be a bit strange to see him leaving F1 so early and I even can't imagine, where would he go next.

Doubt about Honda's significant rise - if they manage to get into Top6 in the WCC next year, then I guess that would pretty much be the ceiling for them...

And I also agree that Prodrive might be an interesting option and maybe even the best existing option (as current Top4 teams are pretty much out of reach) - although I doubt McLaren's B-team would be able to challenge for wins, I believe consistent point finishes should be quite achievable.

[Hazell B]

.... coming out of the woodwork to predict a win for the bunsen at this juncture is doubtful.


My bet still stands that I'll eat my leather hat raw if he wins a race that he isn't gifted by others falling off the track ahead.

Much as some chose to be ignorant of the actual race in Hungary last year, when leaders retired before him, he still hasn't won anything on merit. I say he never will in F1. Always said it, have a feeling I always will :p :

[F1woman]

Jenson, will win next year. Jenson, doesn't like goats and also Lewis girlfriend is asian.

[ioan]

Jenson, will win next year. Jenson, doesn't like goats and also Lewis girlfriend is asian.

:eek: Words failed me! :eek:

[Valve Bounce]

Jenson, will win next year. Jenson, doesn't like goats and also Lewis girlfriend is asian.


Does this suggest:
1. That bunsen has been relegated to fraternising with goats dues to his lack of success in the F1 stage,
2. That bunsen thinks he will merit an Asian girlfriend if he attains success like one Lewis Hamilton.


I have it on good advice that if bunsen just so much as gets onto a podium, he qualifies for an upgrade to sheep.
To qualify for a cute Asian girlfriend like Lewis's, he has to get on the podium for at least six consecutive races.

[Hawkmoon]

Does this suggest:
1. That bunsen has been relegated to fraternising with goats dues to his lack of success in the F1 stage,
2. That bunsen thinks he will merit an Asian girlfriend if he attains success like one Lewis Hamilton.


I have it on good advice that if bunsen just so much as gets onto a podium, he qualifies for an upgrade to sheep.
To qualify for a cute Asian girlfriend like Lewis's, he has to get on the podium for at least six consecutive races.

:rotflmao: :up:

[Roamy]

At the moment it appears the "Sheep" are running Button's show
It is hard to brake wearing those rubber boots

[Bezza]

Button is clearly talented but he's stayed at Honda too long now. I actually thought 2007 would be their big year, but its turned out to be worse than any of the previous ones! He should leave now and try and force his way into a BMW or something, a team on the up.

He is an excellent driver but has made bad career moves. A bit like Jean Alesi. And he only won one race when at one point in the mid 90's I would have said he was the fastest driver in F1.

[Valve Bounce]

I think when he reneged on his Williams contracted drive a couple of years ago, Honda came to some form of agreement with him in terms of a saraly increase to help bail him out of his prediction with Frank Williams. He may be tied to Honda and unable to leave. Of course, we are not privy to bunsen's contract details, so this is only a suspicion on my part.

[wmcot]

Jenson, will win next year. Jenson, doesn't like goats and also Lewis girlfriend is asian.

And that means...

[ShiftingGears]

I can't really picture what racing series Button would go to after F1. If he does leave F1 soon, and if he does continue to race.

[Valve Bounce]

And that means...


http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=315019

[Hazell B]

Jenson, will win next year.

Fancy a bet? If you mean he'll win in F1 that is ....



Jenson, doesn't like goats and also Lewis girlfriend is asian.

You understand humour, don't you? :mark:

[Valve Bounce]

From the way bunsen lapped at practice, he's stuck with goats for quite some time yet!! Hope he'll get used to the smell. :p :

[jens]

After the French GP it looked like Honda had made some slight progress, but now neither of the two cars managed to get even into Q2. Has something like that happened before? Bravo, Honda, bravo.

[VkmSpouge]

Unless it is going to rain in Budapest tomorrow I think Honda might as well pack up and go home as it was a very poor qualifying performance by both their cars.

[Jefe Máximo]

So you start a thread with a dramatic statement. Then you claim you don't know how true or accurate the story is, and that we shouldn't jump down your throat if you're wrong. And then you follow up with a load of hearsay.

You know what, quit whatevere you're doing and get a job with a rag.

I don't like or believe hearsay.

[Hazell B]

I don't like or believe hearsay.

Which is why I asked if it was true or not :mark:

You obviously didn't read my post very well.

[Jefe Máximo]

I read it all right.

Your thread title reads;

:rolleyes: - Button 'throws his teddy out'

Your post starts with a slight disclaimer, followed by unsubstantiated hearsay.

I'll cover my ass too though, if the story is indeed accuarate ( :p : ) then Button dropped a ****. Is never pleasant to see a driver 'give up'.

[Valve Bounce]

So you start a thread with a dramatic statement. Then you claim you don't know how true or accurate the story is, and that we shouldn't jump down your throat if you're wrong. And then you follow up with a load of hearsay.

You know what, quit whatevere you're doing and get a job with a rag.

I don't like or believe hearsay.

I think you're coming into this discussion rather late for anyone to find the article. As a matter of fact I did find the interview in one of the F1 websites but that is all gone from the web pages now, replaced by all sorts of articles and press releases relating to the Hungary GP.

But, basically, the article was an interview with Bunsen who stated that he didn't want to race with a team which had no chances of winning next year; but then follows it up with his thoughts that he was sure Honda will improve and be competitive next year.

The article even had a picture of bunsen with his funny goatie beard. :p :

[ClarkFan]

I think when he reneged on his Williams contracted drive a couple of years ago, Honda came to some form of agreement with him in terms of a saraly increase to help bail him out of his prediction with Frank Williams. He may be tied to Honda and unable to leave. Of course, we are not privy to bunsen's contract details, so this is only a suspicion on my part.

Well, Button was absolutely, positively chained to Honda through the end of this year. The agreement called for two years of ransom payments to Williams, made by Honda. I believe that when those payments end, Jenson actually gets a substantial raise! :rolleyes:

That may create a window for negotiating a transfer. But someone else has to want him. Other than Richards and Prodrive, who would that be? I think that Button is fine as a driver, but the other teams have either locked in their drivers or are unlikely to be interested in JB. But Prodrive could be a possibility, as Button was a favorite of Richards' in 2003-2004.

But his best shot is probably to grit his teeth and work with Honda to improve. The budget is there, but the team really needs to get personnel better arranged. Booting Fry would be a decent start.

ClarkFan

[Valve Bounce]

Well, Button was absolutely, positively chained to Honda through the end of this year. The agreement called for two years of ransom payments to Williams, made by Honda. I believe that when those payments end, Jenson actually gets a substantial raise! :rolleyes:

That may create a window for negotiating a transfer. But someone else has to want him. Other than Richards and Prodrive, who would that be? I think that Button is fine as a driver, but the other teams have either locked in their drivers or are unlikely to be interested in JB. But Prodrive could be a possibility, as Button was a favorite of Richards' in 2003-2004.

But his best shot is probably to grit his teeth and work with Honda to improve. The budget is there, but the team really needs to get personnel better arranged. Booting Fry would be a decent start.

ClarkFan

I don't want to be the Party Pooper, but has Ron Dennis locked in his two fueding drivers in his dysfunctional team for next year?

[ClarkFan]

I don't want to be the Party Pooper, but has Ron Dennis locked in his two fueding drivers in his dysfunctional team for next year?

Probably. Doesn't Ron wait until one of his drivers runs the other off the road before he makes a change? :s

And would Button sign as a #2 anyway? Or his motto from Paradise Lost, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven?" (Profuse apologies to John Milton.)

ClarkFan

[Hazell B]

I don't want to be the Party Pooper, but has Ron Dennis locked in his two fueding drivers in his dysfunctional team for next year?

Don't even say that ... you'll break my heart!

I'm only just starting to like McClaren, Dennis and the drivers. Don't make me have to look for another team to cheer on next year :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Don't even say that ... you'll break my heart!

I'm only just starting to like McClaren, Dennis and the drivers. Don't make me have to look for another team to cheer on next year :p :


I gave McLaren away when Mika left. Now I cheer for Super Aguri.

[Garry Walker]

Probably. Doesn't Ron wait until one of his drivers runs the other off the road before he makes a change? :s

And would Button sign as a #2 anyway? Or his motto from Paradise Lost, "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven?" (Profuse apologies to John Milton.)

ClarkFan

Why Ron want Button? His performances this year have been lacking compared to RB. Button is the last person who can threaten anyone, he has driven like a joke this year. The biggest laugh I have had this year was probably when JB told Matt Bishop that the first 2 laps he drove at Nürburgring (before crasshing out) were among the greatest ever in F1 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Oh dear, I should not have read this thread, now I'm depressed. After Jensens first podium I thought he would eventually be up in the top three, but he can't achieve that with a "kart". I think he still has great potential in F1 and his temperament is more mature than some I could mention. I'm sorry his career might be going down the proverbial gurgler. Cheer me up someone!

[pino]

Oh dear, I should not have read this thread, now I'm depressed. After Jensens first podium I thought he would eventually be up in the top three, but he can't achieve that with a "kart". I think he still has great potential in F1 and his temperament is more mature than some I could mention. I'm sorry his career might be going down the proverbial gurgler. Cheer me up someone!

Ignore this thread, I also think Button is a talented driver, and the problem is that "kart", hopefully next year Honda will give him a competitive car, so he can show his talent. Feel better now ? ;)

Heaps better. Thanks pino

[tinchote]

Ignore this thread, I also think Button is a talented driver, and the problem is that "kart", hopefully next year Honda will give him a competitive car, so he can show his talent. Feel better now ? ;)

Pino, Pino, you liar... ;) :p :

[pino]

Pino, Pino, you liar... ;) :p :

I am not, I really think nothing is wrong with Jenson, and eventhough I accept all the bashing and critics towards him...I still don't understand it. When a Toro Rosso or even a Super Aguri starts ahead of an Honda...can't be the driver :s

[tinchote]

I am not, I really think nothing is wrong with Jenson, and eventhough I accept all the bashing and critics towards him...I still don't understand it. When a Toro Rosso or even a Super Aguri starts ahead of an Honda...can't be the driver :s


Talking seriously, I agree that there is nothing wrong with JB, or with RB for that matter. Still they both seem to lack - in my view - that special push that drivers like Schumacher and Alonso (and maybe others) seem to have. They are good drivers, and they can be winners if provided with the right environment. But they are not likely to be an essential force in the rise of the team.

[pino]

Talking seriously, I agree that there is nothing wrong with JB, or with RB for that matter. Still they both seem to lack - in my view - that special push that drivers like Schumacher and Alonso (and maybe others) seem to have. They are good drivers, and they can be winners if provided with the right environment. But they are not likely to be an essential force in the rise of the team.

tin, do you really expect them to still try ? on such a car ? Haven't they tried enough so far ? They've probably gave up for this year and I would've done the same ;)

[tinchote]

tin, do you really expect them to still try ? on such a car ? Haven't they tried enough so far ? They've probably gave up for this year and I would've done the same ;)

Oh, I'm not talking about this year. Although I would say that being ahead of Super Aguri should be a priority for them :D

It's amazing, not so long ago the question was when would Toyota pull the plug because they were so behind.

In any case, I just think - and I have no concrete evidence of this - that JB and RB are not particularly good at developing the car. I might be wrong, I don't know.

[pino]

In any case, I just think - and I have no concrete evidence of this - that JB and RB are not particularly good at developing the car. I might be wrong, I don't know.

You're probably right on that, still it's the Team who has to build the car...not the driver ;)

[Roamy]

Oh, I'm not talking about this year. Although I would say that being ahead of Super Aguri should be a priority for them :D

It's amazing, not so long ago the question was when would Toyota pull the plug because they were so behind.

In any case, I just think - and I have no concrete evidence of this - that JB and RB are not particularly good at developing the car. I might be wrong, I don't know.

Oh so now you believe me that JV was the one who made the 04 car go good!1
what I said all along

[leopard]

I might be wrong, I don't know.

No, you are right, especially on the first paragraph :D

[tinchote]

Oh so now you believe me that JV was the one who made the 04 car go good!1
what I said all along

Always ready, aren't you? ;) :D

[weeflyonthewall]

You're probably right on that, still it's the Team who has to build the car...not the driver ;)

Maybe they're holding out for a customer chassis in the near future.

[Whyzars]

The first thing that needs to be done is to bring back a Minardi-esque team so that no manufacturer is running last. The Honda suits won't take kindly to many last place finishes.

The second thing hat needs to be done is for Honda to change the paintwork on that car. It must be costing them half a second per lap and the F1 God's are obviously not impressed. I can hear them now, save the world? pfft.

The third thing the Honda needs is to qualify higher up the grid and finish closer to the front.

Easy...

[ArrowsFA1]

"Jenson should have won more races, he has under-performed and that is down to him. He had the opportunity and he didn't take it; there won't be any more. Jenson is a great talent,but he was far better years ago than he is now because he was hungry then. He's got a great reputation for partying and that's taken the edge off it. He's a typical example of too much, too soon. He'll have a great lifestyle but he's had his opportunities and it hasn't happened for him."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61440

[BDunnell]

Pretty much the opposite of what Damon Hill said about Button on ITV last weekend.

[BeansBeansBeans]

It is worth pointing out that Nigel Mansell was a good 11 years older than Jenson Button when he won the title. There is no doubt that the odds of Jenson winning the title are shortening with time, but it's certainly not an impossibility.

[wedge]

Maurice Hamilton has said on numerous occasions that he reckons Jenson switched to F1 too soon.

Pat Symonds has gone on record to say that he and the rest of Benetton weren't impressed by Jenson's attitude/work ethic at the beginning of 2001 though it was a slightly different story by that year's summer.

[BDunnell]

Maurice Hamilton has said on numerous occasions that he reckons Jenson switched to F1 too soon.

I have a high regard for Maurice Hamilton, but I think he's wrong on this one. I'm not sure what would have happened to Button's career otherwise — not that it's exactly been fantastic, of course. His first season with Williams was impressive; even if it did show the odd sign of immaturity, it showed plenty of signs of great maturity, too.

[Hazell B]

It's all very well looking mature, but you do need to win races to be WDC ;)

He's had the vehicle to do better at times and hasn't. Simple as that. Now he's stuck in a dog because nobody with a decent car has employed him.

He does deserve better than that so called car he's in now, but I still don't rate him and do dislike him. Nothing would please me more than seeing him in an equal car to KR, FA, LH and even Nico Rosberg ... so he can fight for fourth :mark:

[BDunnell]

It's all very well looking mature, but you do need to win races to be WDC ;)

I think it was impressive how mature a driver he looked at times in his first season. Since then, I'd agree.


He's had the vehicle to do better at times and hasn't.

I was thinking about this before I posted earlier, and am not sure that Button didn't get the best out of the Honda on numerous occasions (though I do note that you say 'at times'). It's a very difficult one. I don't think the team has ever produced a car that's been capable of winning races on a consistent basis, and most drivers would have struggled to match Schumacher and Alonso in their pomp. But he hasn't helped himself by getting into such a knot over contracts back in 2004. I think that mess will come to be seen as having been critical in his career when it's over. I hope that doesn't happen yet.

[Valve Bounce]

While Frank Williams has gone on record that he would still consider bunsen after he reneged on his contract, I just wonder whether Frank would seriously hiring him again if he was available. I suspect other team managers would have second thoughts about signing him, one because of his contract wrangles and two because he hasn't really proven to be a winner (his one win not withstanding). I mean, Ralfie has a better record.

[ArrowsFA1]

"I would refute everything Nigel [Mansell] has said, and particularly I think his comments about Jenson's reputation for partying are about five years out of date...I have absolutely no doubt that given the right car, Jenson can win races and the world championship."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61450

[Hondo]

Oddly enough, David Richard's team gave Honda, BAR, and Button the best car they had ever had and they ran David off. Now I know some misguided souls are going to jump in here with the legend of JV's car development credit for the 2005 BAR but JV couldn't develop a go-cart. His idea of car development was to start disconnecting electronic aids. Although that allowed him to feel better about going faster in that car, it didn't necessarily make the car faster or run to it's potentional. So before the JV development crowd jumps in, allow me to point out that BAR under Richards and BMW-Sauber both started doing better as soon as JV was shown the door.

Before young Button got all crossways with Dave Richards and started playing the Williams card, he should have studied his history about Honda's success the last time they fielded their own chassis and engine in F1.

However, like Mansell, if he stays in the game long enough and drives for a number of teams, he may one day find himself sitting in a car that will win the championship for him.

[leopard]

...JV couldn't develop a go-cart. His idea of car development was to start disconnecting electronic aids. Although that allowed him to feel better about going faster in that car, it didn't necessarily make the car faster or run to it's potentional.
Does this mean JV's development idea was only dismantling electronic aids, that allowing him to feel better and going faster, although the car still has unexplored potency to dig more power from it?

The hardest part of me :)

[BDunnell]

Oddly enough, David Richard's team gave Honda, BAR, and Button the best car they had ever had and they ran David off. Now I know some misguided souls are going to jump in here with the legend of JV's car development credit for the 2005 BAR but JV couldn't develop a go-cart. His idea of car development was to start disconnecting electronic aids. Although that allowed him to feel better about going faster in that car, it didn't necessarily make the car faster or run to it's potentional. So before the JV development crowd jumps in, allow me to point out that BAR under Richards and BMW-Sauber both started doing better as soon as JV was shown the door.

Before young Button got all crossways with Dave Richards and started playing the Williams card, he should have studied his history about Honda's success the last time they fielded their own chassis and engine in F1.

However, like Mansell, if he stays in the game long enough and drives for a number of teams, he may one day find himself sitting in a car that will win the championship for him.

I think that's a very fair assessment.

[Hondo]

Does this mean JV's development idea was only dismantling electronic aids, that allowing him to feel better and going faster, although the car still has unexplored potency to dig more power from it?

The hardest part of me :)

In a nutshell, yup. At some point when all are old and gray, books will be written and truths, pleasant and unpleasant shall come forth. Don't get me wrong, Jacques Villeneuve was a great race car driver and, if you followed Le Mans, can still drive a race car. But JV needs to drive the car and most of all, Jacques needs slick tires to make his magic work for him. Unfortunately for Jacques, as he was coming into F1, F1 was evolving into something he was never comfortable with, especially the electronic stuff. F1 is about the engineering and technology of the car and the driver's ability to master those technologies. The driver has to trust the engineer when he says you can go 150 feet deeper into the turn before you begin braking now. The engineer has to rely on the driver's feedback to judge whether they have made an improvement or not. The engineer also has the complete computer feedback from the car's systems to use in making decisions. The engineers can tell what the driver is doing and is not doing by looking at the data. JV was only going to do things his way. So when they would finally give up and set the car up the way JV wanted, JV went faster in it because it was more to his liking and he trusted JV, not the engineers. However, it also nipped in the bud any further engineering to make the car signifigantly faster in the future. JV's only real chance after that was the one fuel stop prayer and hope the rest of the field blows up strategy, if you want to call that a strategy.

[Flat.tyres]

Oddly enough, David Richard's team gave Honda, BAR, and Button the best car they had ever had and they ran David off. Now I know some misguided souls are going to jump in here with the legend of JV's car development credit for the 2005 BAR but JV couldn't develop a go-cart. His idea of car development was to start disconnecting electronic aids. Although that allowed him to feel better about going faster in that car, it didn't necessarily make the car faster or run to it's potentional. So before the JV development crowd jumps in, allow me to point out that BAR under Richards and BMW-Sauber both started doing better as soon as JV was shown the door.

Before young Button got all crossways with Dave Richards and started playing the Williams card, he should have studied his history about Honda's success the last time they fielded their own chassis and engine in F1.

However, like Mansell, if he stays in the game long enough and drives for a number of teams, he may one day find himself sitting in a car that will win the championship for him.

spot on. :up:

[jens]

It's funny that Mansell says something like that - the man, who won his first race in F1 at the age of 32... Well, Button is at the moment clearly ahead of Mansell as he has managed that a lot earlier. :D

[BDunnell]

It's funny that Mansell says something like that - the man, who won his first race in F1 at the age of 32... Well, Button is at the moment clearly ahead of Mansell as he has managed that a lot earlier. :D

I suspect Mansell may be of the view that times are rather different now to when he was racing, as today you are considered 'past it' or a 'veteran' when you hit 30 in most sports.

[leopard]

The engineer also has the complete computer feedback from the car's systems to use in making decisions. The engineers can tell what the driver is doing and is not doing by looking at the data. JV was only going to do things his way.

That's good that in any circumstance the engineer perform their job according to recommended handbook of system from the relevant car in making decision for every development, and relay the improvement onto the driver in accordance with character in handling the car they are acquainted with.
However learning from our previous achievement compressing our best and correcting the mistake if any, wouldn't be wrong, but on the other hand decision will be directed into the more proper objective. IMO

[Valve Bounce]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61450


Quote:
"I would refute everything Nigel [Mansell] has said, and particularly I think his comments about Jenson's reputation for partying are about five years out of date...I have absolutely no doubt that given the right car, Jenson can win races and the world championship."


I just wonder whether Fry was talking about Honda being the right car, or a car with the pace of the McLaren. I am just not that confident that Honda can suddenly and magically produce a race and championship winning car in the next three years.

[Roamy]

Oddly enough, David Richard's team gave Honda, BAR, and Button the best car they had ever had and they ran David off. Now I know some misguided souls are going to jump in here with the legend of JV's car development credit for the 2005 BAR but JV couldn't develop a go-cart. His idea of car development was to start disconnecting electronic aids. Although that allowed him to feel better about going faster in that car, it didn't necessarily make the car faster or run to it's potentional. So before the JV development crowd jumps in, allow me to point out that BAR under Richards and BMW-Sauber both started doing better as soon as JV was shown the door.

Before young Button got all crossways with Dave Richards and started playing the Williams card, he should have studied his history about Honda's success the last time they fielded their own chassis and engine in F1.

However, like Mansell, if he stays in the game long enough and drives for a number of teams, he may one day find himself sitting in a car that will win the championship for him.

Well then I expect to see a asskicker car next year from prodrive as they will be a lot cheaper. And then Prichards can prove me full of sh!t