Here's the door [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Daniel

20th December 2006, 23:02

http://www.shopliftersanonymous.com/images/structure/open-door-3.jpg

I've noticed lately (and over the course of the last year) that people are starting to whine and moan about the WRC constantly. Maybe it's just me but this is getting to point where I'd rather wait for someone to tell me news over MSN than to read it on the forum and possibly read another "S2000 is so much better than WRC" or "It's so sad that my driver isn't in the WRC and Matt Wilson is" or "It was so much better in 19XX when my favourite driver was driving my favourite car" and so on. I know just as well as anyone here that the WRC isn't the same as it used to be. Times change and we need to get over it I think. I don't see why people seem to spend so much time complaining about a series and yet still visit a forum totally devoted to it???

I understand that people don't like the way things are now and believe me I'm not 100% happy with things either. But to constantly whine, complain, whinge, moan, bitch and just be unpleasant about things is getting a tad depressing. I come to this forum because I love rallying and I'm passionate about rallying and I love to discuss the WRC with like minded people. If it ever gets to the point where I not longer want to watch the WRC again I will make one thread about it and then be gone. I won't put the people who still love it through the pain of hearing my constant moaning :)

No offence or anything but if I kept on at my girlfrien about things in Wales not being the same as they were in Australia she'd probably shout rather loudly at me and if I didn't shut up then she'd beat the hell out of me. Now I'm not about to do that to anyone on this forum but I do ask that people be a bit more considerate of others. If you love the WRC and rallying and all related discussion then please do stay. If not then the door is above. If you don't want to be here then use it.

Over and out.

Brother D :)

Edit: Added open door. BTW the door is always open if you discover that the WRC is the only decent motorsport around and you want back in :up:

Simmi

20th December 2006, 23:05

That door looks locked to me lol!

Daniel

20th December 2006, 23:09

OK I've changed my post around ;)

A.F.F.

20th December 2006, 23:27

I started thinking Cindy Lauper's Time after time but then I realized the lyrics don't match at all :D

But yes, times do chance :up:

J4MIE

21st December 2006, 01:48

Daniel :up:

Far too many Victor Meldrews around here. Cheer up everyone, at least rallying hasn't been banned!! (yet ;) )

FrankenSchwinn

21st December 2006, 03:42

Oh Daniel, that is exactly why i like you! You have that direct communication service; you tell it like it is. Now, let's see how long this thread lasts with Pino-chet around.....

To tell you the truth, my sober friend, it seems that this forum is the most popular of this new board. before, you couldn’t see how many people were visiting what ever board, but now, when i click on "world rally championship" it's the one forum with the highest number of users who are reading through. Sometimes it's around 40-50 users and F1 only has 10-20 users. so, in overall, there is a lower rate of "readers vs. posters" which in turn might be good for you and I. might i remind you that we are highly opinionated people (along with some other NOT members who eat JAM) and that must mean that there are a lot of people who are not answering our BS. Including this thread! i love rallying, not particularly the WRC but that is because i frequent a few different national championships' stages. But I will forever admire the technological achievements and the vehicular developments that the WRC has brought the world of motor sports and the constant defiance of the laws of time and physics (think gronholm 2002 on that one) that the drivers of this series seem to prove. I will look over this forum but post much less my friend, you are right; there is no need for me here except in the name the car…. You win.

FrankenSchwinn

21st December 2006, 03:46

Oh Daniel, that is exactly why i like you! You have that direct communication service; you tell it like it is. Now, let's see how long this thread lasts with Pino-chet around.....

To tell you the truth, my friend, it seems that this forum is the most popular of this new board. before, you couldn’t see how many people were visiting what ever board, but now, when i click on "world rally championship" it's the one forum with the highest number of users who are reading through. Sometimes it's around 40-50 users and F1 only has 10-20 users. so, in overall, there is a lower rate of "readers vs. posters" which in turn might be good for you and I. might i remind you that we are highly opinionated people (along with some other NOT members who eat JAM) and that must mean that there are a lot of people who are not answering our BS. Including this thread! i love rallying, not particularly the WRC but that is because i frequent a few different national championships' stages. But I will forever admire the technological achievements and the vehicular developments that the WRC has brought the world of motor sports and the constant defiance of the laws of time and physics (think gronholm 2002 on that one) that the drivers of this series seem to prove. I will look over this forum but post much less my friend, you are right; there is no need for me here except in the name the car…. You win.

i was hoping you'd show me this type of door.....
http://www.undergroundozarks.com/gallery/albums/kc30/kc30_13.jpg

WRCfan

21st December 2006, 05:28

The one on the right painted white?

Erki

21st December 2006, 07:00

I like this door!

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05279a.jpg

Carlo

21st December 2006, 07:49

I like this door!

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05279a.jpg

Whats all that rubbish on the shelves that is taking up the space that should be devoted to Speights, Steinlager & DB Export.

(Hint: If you remove the shelves you can add in at least another 24 pack. Right Pentti ?)

MikeD

21st December 2006, 10:01

Well said Daniel.

And it's the same in every F1 Forum. People always talk about "it was ohh so good back then ... and it's ohhh so bad nowadays".

1LM1

21st December 2006, 10:17

Yes, well said Daniel. I agree! :up:

pino

21st December 2006, 10:30

Now, let's see how long this thread lasts with Pino-chet around.....

And why would Pino-chet close this thread ? :s : I suggest you stop attacking me all the time, I am sure everyone has figured out how much you "love" me... :rolleyes:

JAM

21st December 2006, 10:36

Magnus

21st December 2006, 10:36

I totally agree Daniel!

Donney

21st December 2006, 11:37

I thought the forum was open for oppinion and discussion. Anyway everyone can use the door, right?

jens

21st December 2006, 11:59

There is a difference between words 'moaning', 'whining' etc and 'criticizing'. Of course we should avoid complaining, but it is often impossible to discuss without any reasoned criticism. Or how does Daniel interpret those words? :)

J4MIE

21st December 2006, 12:23

Please keep this on-topic folks. This isn't a discussion about doors.

There is always a way to discuss something without moaning or whinging. Whilst there are a lot of very reasonable posts, I think it would do a lot of members the world of good if they improved their debating techniques without resorting to personal insults.

Daniel

21st December 2006, 13:27

WRC is good, WRC is fine, WRC never was so good as now. I don't know why we have so few top drivers running and why is being so dificult to raise money and why we had 3 manufacturers dropping in 2005.... If everything is fine and everybody is happy, why should we complain?

Ohhhh... sorry, we didn't had 3 manufacturers pulling out, and all the top drivers available are in a team without paying one cent... ahhh and it'sm easy to raise money. Everything was only a nightmare. Thank god that Daniel wake me

I like many other people on this forum know this. I know that there are problems. We've discussed them in many threads over the last few years. The thing is we have Suzuki coming in and rumours say that yet another manufacturer is going to come in 2008 or so. Why are there 300 times more posts about how crap the WRC is rather than how good the WRC will be when things get back on track and Subaru are able to challenge for wins again? Because as J4mie puts it we have far to many Victor Meldrews out there who just want to talk about the negative side of the WRC. The thing is the WRC urinates quite successfully over all other international forms of motorsport. Why not enjoy the WRC as it is now rather than whining and complaining so that in the future when your little son asks "What did you think of Sebastien Loeb in 2007 when he took his 4th title en-route to taking 10 titles?" you don't have to reply "Sorry son. I was too busy complaining about Matt Wilson than actually noticing what was going on at the time"

Make sense?

P.S Jens. You have a point :up: I simply lumbered all of those words together as they have a similar meaning :) Of course being a discussion forum there will always be things to discuss in a negative way but I simply ask that we don't go on and on and on and on about everything because it gets depressing and makes peope not want to visit anymore. If I didn't know any better I'd say that the WRC was at deaths door from what I've read on the forum over the last year or two. We've got Suzuki coming in, Ford and Citroen committed, Subaru coming back on Michelin's and people are saying that another manufacturer will dip their toe in the water in the next couple of years. If anything the upward swing has started and the WRC looks to be improving :up:

I am glad that our moderators have allowed this thread to stay. It's not a joke, it's not a dig at anyone or fans of one particular driver. It's simply something which I've wanted to say for a while now. Pino. You do have to laugh at the Pino-Chet comment at least :p Good play on words even if you're not a military dictator :p

sal

21st December 2006, 13:30

Daniel

21st December 2006, 13:37

I prefer to think that anyone who feels the need to moan, and I'm probably one of them, only does it because they care passionatley about the subject.

I'm quite happy to subscribe to the "it's better than no WRC at all" school of thought in these days of HSE and Enviromentalists but will be spending more time in 07 watching and hopefully competing again in Historic rallying than following the WRC.All this fascination with splits and watching cartoon cars on Virtual Spectator is somewhat alien to a "dinosaur" like me but am not going to throw my toys out of the pram and stomp off!

I respect you for this and I don't accuse people of complaining because they are not passionate. I simply say that complaining doesn't do anything. Complaining isn't going to bring back the Safari, it isn't going to bring back more manufacturers and it isn't going to create more seats for drivers :) I think discussing the negative points of the championship is necessary but only in moderation. To be honest sal your name doesn't spring to mind when I think of the group of people who are constantly bashing the WRC. I myself got to see some of the WRC's glory years through the late 80's and through the 90's so I understand what we've lost :( But I simply see no value in going over it time and time again and mulling over it. We'll simply end up bitter old men and women. Enjoy what we've got and who knows maybe we're close to another golden age of WRC :)

Simmi

21st December 2006, 13:48

The WRC has been in a bit of a decline the past few years but I truely think the sport is an amazing one and is not as doomed as it appears. If next season we get Loeb having a few problems, and as Daniel says competitive Subaru's, with Seb, Marcus, Mikko, Petter and Dani fighting for wins then thats a vintage year! Maybe it takes a threat like the IRC or no TV coverage to really kick the WRC into life again and make the required big changes to secure its future.

White Sauron

21st December 2006, 13:49

C'mon, I don't uderstand! WRC is the best sport, it's certain. But any discussion needs critics. Without it it will soon become boring. Just think what it will look like, if everyone will starts agreeing with everyone! The discussion will be pointless if all just like everything. It the real world! Yes, we love this sport, but can't we judge, what it needs to improve?

sal

21st December 2006, 13:50

Daniel, we've had our disagreements in the past but on this occassion I think you have it bang on. Lets embrace what we have got and see how things develop. Motorsport as a whole will face some serious challenges over the coming years and the worst thing that WRC rally fans can do is sow the seeds of their own demise by bickering as who knows who reads these forums and for what ends? With deminishing media coverage in some countries the UK being a prime example we should be grateful there are any teams left at all doing the series regardless of if they have "rentadrivers" or not?

Bring on 2007!

DonJippo

21st December 2006, 13:54

C'mon, I don't uderstand! WRC is the best sport, it's certain. But any discussion needs critics.

Of course it needs but if you do it just for the sake of it then you have taken the wrong path IMO.

White Sauron

21st December 2006, 15:16

Of course it needs but if you do it just for the sake of it then you have taken the wrong path IMO.

You didn't get my point. I mean that if I, for example, don't like Wilson as a driver, why can't I express my opinion and say that such drivers are making my favorite sport worse. I don't say I no more like the sport. I'm just looking for the ways to improve it. You know, there's always room for improvement. In everything. And rally's no exclusion.

FrankenSchwinn

21st December 2006, 15:18

how many WRC fans does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

three

one to screw in the bulb and two to argue about how the old one was so much better.

Daniel

21st December 2006, 15:21

how many WRC fans does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

three

one to screw in the bulb and two to argue about how the old one was so much better.
You forgot to mention that you need Pentti to tell you that the bulb would be better with left hand threads, Ivan to render a really stupid looking bulb that no one would want and someone who's never even seen a lightbulb to say that they could do better.

Daniel

21st December 2006, 15:25

You didn't get my point. I mean that if I, for example, don't like Wilson as a driver, why can't I express my opinion and say that such drivers are making my favorite sport worse. I don't say I no more like the sport. I'm just looking for the ways to improve it. You know, there's always room for improvement. In everything. And rally's no exclusion.

Of course we need to discuss the negatives. But like I said you also shouldn't forget all the positive things. Matt's involvement if it's not your thing still has some very positive things that come out of it. If you don't like something in the WRC lets talk about it. But lets not keep on going on about it all the time so much that it makes people on the forums sick. I looked at the WRC forums last night before posting this thread and about 1 out of 3 threads were mostly complaint threads and all along the same lines as well!

FrankenSchwinn

21st December 2006, 15:26

pino, you're right, i dont love you, i leave that to the ladies in your life, but i like you man. you're always insightful and helpful with offensive posts and users. i only said that cause you run a tight ship and to tell you the truth i'm glad you left this thread open. i thought you'd close it or move it cause it's not directly rally related but user related.

anyway, the wrc does urinate on other international motorsports (or maybe it's DR doing the urinating....) and i dont think anyone will deny that. but is anyone here REALLY only here to whine and moan? i think some whine about certain topics like wilson, while others whine about having to pay for TV, all the while some whined about portugal being out and then some whine about how safari was righteous etc..... i doubt there is a single user here that whines about all that is wrc..... at least not that i've seen but i dont spend that much time here.

on a lighter note, when i signed in:
chitchat - 11viewers
F1 - 9 viewers
champcars - 19 viewers
wrc - 35 viewers

FrankenSchwinn

21st December 2006, 15:28

Brother John

21st December 2006, 15:33

Is it possible that someone closes that door? it becomes cold here!!! :angryfire :laugh:
Daniel you are right, we love WRC but I´m open for new matter like IRC to! :D

A.F.F.

21st December 2006, 15:45

White Sauron

21st December 2006, 16:11

Of course we need to discuss the negatives. But like I said you also shouldn't forget all the positive things. Matt's involvement if it's not your thing still has some very positive things that come out of it. If you don't like something in the WRC lets talk about it. But lets not keep on going on about it all the time so much that it makes people on the forums sick. I looked at the WRC forums last night before posting this thread and about 1 out of 3 threads were mostly complaint threads and all along the same lines as well!

Now I absolutely agree with you!!

Brother John

21st December 2006, 16:14

:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:
See you all in Sweden and Finland! :wave:

Nenukknak

21st December 2006, 16:35

This is a public forum, if people want to complain let them complain. If it bothers you that much just don't read.

Daniel

21st December 2006, 17:15

This is a public forum, if people want to complain let them complain. If it bothers you that much just don't read.

Well if this continues I'm sure lots of valued members will simply **** off and leave the forum for somewhere slightly cheerier and more down to earth. Then here you'll be left with a higher percentage of whinging threads. The reason why I came to this forum in the first place was because there was real content and not for people being nostalgic and criticising what we have now. The value of this forum lies in the members it has and if you alienate the members who give the forum substance then the consequences don't bear thinking about..........

kabouter

21st December 2006, 17:55

You forgot to mention that you need Pentti to tell you that the bulb would be better with left hand threads, Ivan to render a really stupid looking bulb that no one would want and someone who's never even seen a lightbulb to say that they could do better.

Don't forget the WRC fan that pops round to ask the link to the Estonian website where he can follow the energy usage of the light bulb in real time...

Daniel, I completely agree with the sentiments in your first post. One of the reasons I have mainly stuck to reading and posting in the Rally History thread is that I had grown tired of reading the same old arguments and moans over and over again. So I did as Nenukknak suggested: it bothered me so I stopped reading - meaning I probably missed a few gems from A.F.F., Daniel and others, but also a lot of cheap *fill in driver other than Loeb or Grönholm*-bashing, personal attacks and two-years-ago-everything-was-better-posts.

bowler

21st December 2006, 19:25

Well if this continues I'm sure lots of valued members will simply **** off and leave the forum for somewhere slightly cheerier and more down to earth. Then here you'll be left with a higher percentage of whinging threads. The reason why I came to this forum in the first place was because there was real content and not for people being nostalgic and criticising what we have now. The value of this forum lies in the members it has and if you alienate the members who give the forum substance then the consequences don't bear thinking about..........

This is scary stuff....I agree with Daniel!!

No doubt in my mind that this forum has had some real content, and some constructive views in the past. Constructive criticism is always helpful, but mindless whinging is no good to anyone.

And again Daniel is correct, the forum has some good thoughtful members whose views, although sometimes very different, make this forum the best around.

Lose them and you lose the value of this forum.

FrankenSchwinn

21st December 2006, 19:32

Hands up who love WRC

Now hands up who love rallying in general

I like to go watch national rallying here in Finland even there isn't but a couple of WRC cars. Coming to think of it, there wouldn't be such thing as WRC without rallying in ALL FRIGGING levels.

So why people seem threatened about IRC ???

Oooppssss.... that wasn't whining was it?

whinning or not, who cares, here are my hands up
:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

cut the b.s.

21st December 2006, 19:49

Well if this continues I'm sure lots of valued members will simply **** off and leave the forum for somewhere slightly cheerier and more down to earth. Then here you'll be left with a higher percentage of whinging threads. The reason why I came to this forum in the first place was because there was real content and not for people being nostalgic and criticising what we have now. The value of this forum lies in the members it has and if you alienate the members who give the forum substance then the consequences don't bear thinking about..........

You say ' The reason why I came to this forum in the first place was because there was real content and not for people being nostalgic and criticising what we have now' Do you feel the forums membership has changed dramatically? Or is it perhaps that the WRC has just had one of its least interesting(still not boring tho IMO)years ever? Too much criticising is dull, but a certain amount is to be expected right now, to cheer from the roof tops about WRC and to say as had been said on here 'anyway, the wrc does urinate on other international motorsports' points to a total ignorance of other motorsports

I dont feel I belong to the 'back in day' crew, but I dont feel I want to be like the band on the titanic either...

pflugi

21st December 2006, 21:42

You say ' The reason why I came to this forum in the first place was because there was real content and not for people being nostalgic and criticising what we have now' Do you feel the forums membership has changed dramatically? Or is it perhaps that the WRC has just had one of its least interesting(still not boring tho IMO)years ever? Too much criticising is dull, but a certain amount is to be expected right now, to cheer from the roof tops about WRC and to say as had been said on here 'anyway, the wrc does urinate on other international motorsports' points to a total ignorance of other motorsports

If people on this forum are complaining and whining, then there must be something to whine about. It's not like the people here have changed that dramatically, as others have said, so there must be a legitimate reason to complain. Some people will always be looking to the past for models of the future, but I think a lot of the criticisms I've read here are well-founded and insightful. For a lot of the people who read the boards more than post (like me) and for a lot of the people who are new to the sport (like me), the complaints let me know the state of the sport--something that I don't have a lot of access to outside of the internet. I'm always more interested in the controversial posts more than the congratulatory ones anyway.

That said, I'm guessing there's a lot of b**ching going on these days because we have a new season ahead of us and some of us are annoyed at how things are shaping up.

sollitt

21st December 2006, 21:43

Interesting thread Daniel.

Be wary the words "pot" "kettle" "black" don't come back to haunt you.

Daniel

21st December 2006, 21:47

You say ' The reason why I came to this forum in the first place was because there was real content and not for people being nostalgic and criticising what we have now' Do you feel the forums membership has changed dramatically? Or is it perhaps that the WRC has just had one of its least interesting(still not boring tho IMO)years ever? Too much criticising is dull, but a certain amount is to be expected right now, to cheer from the roof tops about WRC and to say as had been said on here 'anyway, the wrc does urinate on other international motorsports' points to a total ignorance of other motorsports

I dont feel I belong to the 'back in day' crew, but I dont feel I want to be like the band on the titanic either...

Band on the titanic. Cute :) There's a difference between being a fan of a series and playing a musical instrument on a ship and dying. If I come out and support the WRC and it goes down then I hardly lose anything do I?

Show me another form of international motorsport that is better than the WRC and I won't make that claim again. The WTCC in my mind is the only other form of motorsport that comes close to the WRC and they use success ballast. Call me crazy but I find the idea of ballasting someone because they're good to be rubbish. Imagine ballasting an athlete who's doing the 100m sprint just because they've trained harder than all the others. Rather removes the drive for people to actually become competitive now doesn't it?

Seriously though name one form of international motorsport that is better than the WRC and you better not say F1 because F1 is about 20 years ahead of the WRC when it comes to being boring.

Daniel

21st December 2006, 21:49

Interesting thread Daniel.

Be wary the words "pot" "kettle" "black" don't come back to haunt you.

Yes. I will be careful when having a whinge in future believe me ;) I'll have to make sure this thread is deleted or else I can't constantly whinge about anything ;)

Nenukknak

21st December 2006, 22:16

I don't think the forum is chasing members away, it probably is the WRC as it is now. For me personally when I joined this forum about 5 years ago, it was great. To talk about my favourite sport with people all over the world. But in recent years, and especially this year, my favourite sport has gotten boring. I agree the whining and moaning, especially the driverbashing, has all gotten a bit yesterdays. But I think it's good that people speak their mind about what's wrong with the WRC.
In the past I've had my share to say on the whole current concept of WRC and how it sucks IMO. And it's not criticising the drivers, the teams, or all the other people who work in it. It's about legislators (FIA) and missing of commitment of manufacturers and investors to come up with longterm plan that's commercially viable but also in the true spirit of what rally was and should be: an unique adventure. And in my opinion todays WRC is proof that the legislation and commercialisation in the last five years has failed miserably.
But now I'm moaning again. But anyways, I still feel strongly about this, but I don't post it here anymore. It's like you say Daniel, it doesn't do any good. So for now I watch DVDs and read books about the old days, watch national rallies and the occasional WRC broadcast when I can. And hope that WRC can somehow turn itself around, not like in the old days, I'm realist enough to not see that happen, but maybe a little step in that direction wouldn't harm anyone. (Oops still moaning, I'll stop now)

EuroTroll

21st December 2006, 22:54

Here's an idea: why don't we (well, the Mods) make a new sub-forum to Rallying called the "Death of the WRC" forum?

In this forum, we could discuss whatever is wrong with the WRC, who is to blame, how great the WRC used to be, how it could still be saved, etc. This would leave the actual WRC forum free of much of the negativity and frustration that understandably hovers around the WRC at the moment.

People who don't want to see all the negative stuff can simply stay away from the DotWRC forum, whereas people who want to complain a bit can do so in a suitable environment and then hop over to the WRC forum happy as a dog in heat that's just been satisfied. "I say, the duel between Grönholm and Loeb is very exciting indeed," they might then say. ;)

It's better anyway, this solution, than to tell a great many posters here to simply **** off.

cut the b.s.

22nd December 2006, 00:30

Band on the titanic. Cute :) There's a difference between being a fan of a series and playing a musical instrument on a ship and dying. If I come out and support the WRC and it goes down then I hardly lose anything do I?

Show me another form of international motorsport that is better than the WRC and I won't make that claim again. The WTCC in my mind is the only other form of motorsport that comes close to the WRC and they use success ballast. Call me crazy but I find the idea of ballasting someone because they're good to be rubbish. Imagine ballasting an athlete who's doing the 100m sprint just because they've trained harder than all the others. Rather removes the drive for people to actually become competitive now doesn't it?

Seriously though name one form of international motorsport that is better than the WRC and you better not say F1 because F1 is about 20 years ahead of the WRC when it comes to being boring.

Define better for me please, I'm a rally fan but F1 looks to be a heck of a lot healthier on the financial side to me, Toyota seem to agree, they must think it to be better to be an also ran in F1 than the daddy in rally!! Motogp seems to be in good shape also, Daddys not going to buy anyone a ride there.

I would rather watch WRC, poor tho it is than any other motorsport, doesnt mean rallying is healthy though

Helstar

22nd December 2006, 01:42

If it ever gets to the point where I not longer want to watch the WRC again I will make one thread about it and then be gone
You can also leave the forum without saying anything, we'll survive (at least me, I promise) ! :D

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 02:24

Define better for me please, I'm a rally fan but F1 looks to be a heck of a lot healthier on the financial side to me, Toyota seem to agree, they must think it to be better to be an also ran in F1 than the daddy in rally!! Motogp seems to be in good shape also, Daddys not going to buy anyone a ride there.

I would rather watch WRC, poor tho it is than any other motorsport, doesnt mean rallying is healthy though
Did I say the series was healthy? No I did not :)

Who cares if F1 makes 10 billion million squillion dollars a year. It's still rubbish and I don't care. Toyota is the only profitable car manufacturer in the world. I still won't buy one of their bland pieces of rubbish. As a spectator I could care less (to an extent) whether a series is profitable or not. Of course i understand a series can't lose money forever but it's a lesser concern for me :)

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 02:29

You can also leave the forum without saying anything, we'll survive (at least me, I promise) ! :D
Same goes for you :) Seriously though if you don't want to add anything to this thread and come here to insult you I think it's only fair to ask you to use the door as well. After all J4mie asked that this thread not be a place for personal insults but seemingly you don't understand that.

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 02:36

Hands up who love WRC :wave:

Now hands up who love rallying in general :wave:

I like to go watch national rallying here in Finland even there isn't but a couple of WRC cars. Coming to think of it, there wouldn't be such thing as WRC without rallying in ALL FRIGGING levels.

So why people seem threatened about IRC ???

Oooppssss.... that wasn't whining was it?
Forgot to reply to you. I want to put my hand up too for both liking the WRC and rallying in general.

I will be looking with interest at what the IRC does as well. But I don't see it being a WRC replacement anytime soon. I don't see it as a threat to the WRC but I am worried people may expect too much from it so soon :)

And yes it was whining. Down with AFF!!!!!! :mark:

JAM

22nd December 2006, 02:39

Did I say the series was healthy? No I did not :)

Who cares if F1 makes 10 billion million squillion dollars a year. It's still rubbish and I don't care.

You don't care, but who are you? You are one voice between millions of them. The people that interests care and yes, F1 is much helthier than WRC, always was, but now is more, because F1 passed the crisis with sucess even if, IMO, the races are and were in last yeras boring. Did you saw in F1 half of the teams droping? I didn't.

If you want to discuss only the rose things in WRC, than please do it. But don't blame from the ones that want a better WRC, and better reality only in the past, because the future is virtual and incertain, and the present is not so good.

Helstar

22nd December 2006, 02:42

Same goes for you :) Seriously though if you don't want to add anything to this thread and come here to insult you I think it's only fair to ask you to use the door as well. After all J4mie asked that this thread not be a place for personal insults but seemingly you don't understand that.
Didn't you see any irony in my post ? Oh come on, you are the Master of Irony ! (mostly for GiGi - correct to write that right :D ?)

Ps. Where are the insults btw ^^ Then Pino-chet is a joke while my post is full of insults rotfl !!!

Pps. I agree to what you said in the first post. Just didn't want to appear too much on your side by making a 'I quote all' post :p

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 02:45

Didn't you see any irony in my post ? Oh come on, you are the Master of Irony ! (mostly for GiGi - correct to write that right :D ?)

Ps. Where are the insults btw ^^ Then Pino-chet is a joke while my post is full of insults rotfl !!!

Pps. I agree to what you said in the first post. Just didn't want to appear too much on your side by making a 'I quote all' post
Ok fair enough :)

If you didn't mean to be rude that's fine with me :)

You have to say Pino-Chet is quite funny huh? :p I know Pino can be strict but he's no military dictator :p

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 02:49

You don't care, but who are you? You are one voice between millions of them. The people that interests care and yes, F1 is much helthier than WRC, always was, but now is more, because F1 passed the crisis with sucess even if, IMO, the races are and were in last yeras boring. Did you saw in F1 half of the teams droping? I didn't.

If you want to discuss only the rose things in WRC, than please do it. But don't blame from the ones that want a better WRC, and better reality only in the past, because the future is virtual and incertain, and the present is not so good.

JAM I think you misunderstand :) I understand the WRC is not in good shape. I don't think we should ignore this. But to discuss this in every second or third thread lessons the quality of the threads. Just like we had many threads on donuts we could have just had one or two of them, discussed it and have been on our way. When people constantly go on about negative things it becomes annoying. My girlfriend leaves cups of tea around the house with just a bit of tea in and it annoys me. But I don't go off at her everytime I find a half drunk cup of tea laying around. I've said it a few times of course but to go on about it everyday when we have a great relationship is to me quite ungrateful because she does so much for me. I appreciate her for who she is and not what she isn't. She's not perfect and neither is the WRC but I still think they're both damn good :up:

Like I've said 1000 times in this thread if you didn't know anything about the WRC and you came and watched you'd probably think it was pretty cool. Perhaps the glass is half full rather than being totally empty?

JAM

22nd December 2006, 10:35

Please, put here a list of the negative threads in the last 30 days.

We'll discuss after that.

pino

22nd December 2006, 10:50

I thought the forum was open for oppinion and discussion.

It's still open for opinions and discussions, and I think there's nothing wrong in criticize and moaning about today's WRC. Yes I know that it won't help but if people can't do that in a rally-forum, where can they do that ? at home with the Family ? :s

AndyRAC

22nd December 2006, 11:20

There is nothing wrong with critisism, as long as its constructive. Anybody who thinks that the WRC is in great shape is living in cloud cuckoo land. WRC is my favourite motorsport but I'm not blind to its faults, and there are many. This year Moto GP and even Formula 1 have been more exciting than WRC, with exciting races and a close final race decider. But just because they are exciting doesn't mean the WRC has to copy their success, as I think has happened before. Rallying is completely different and should remain so, hopefully.

Donney

22nd December 2006, 11:30

It's still open for opinions and discussions, and I think there's nothing wrong in criticize and moaning about today's WRC. Yes I know that it won't help but if people can't do that in a rally-forum, where can they do that ? at home with the Family ? :s

I agree 100% with you pino, and I know this forum is still open to oppinions, discussion, debating and good laughs. I just don't like the door to be shown to the ones who have a particular way of seeing WRC.

cut the b.s.

22nd December 2006, 12:15

Did I say the series was healthy? No I did not :)

Who cares if F1 makes 10 billion million squillion dollars a year. It's still rubbish and I don't care. Toyota is the only profitable car manufacturer in the world. I still won't buy one of their bland pieces of rubbish. As a spectator I could care less (to an extent) whether a series is profitable or not. Of course i understand a series can't lose money forever but it's a lesser concern for me :)

No offence Daniel, but I think any true fan of any sport would and should care about their sports health.

Back to my question in my 1st post on this topic, you are around here much longer than me, do you feel that the membership here has changed leading to the recent negative posts, or is it perhaps that the WRC is in fact deserving of this critism?

pino

22nd December 2006, 13:14

I just don't like the door to be shown to the ones who have a particular way of seeing WRC.

Niether do I, so feel free to express yourself about today's WRC and ignore that door ! :)

DonJippo

22nd December 2006, 13:48

Niether do I, so feel free to express yourself about today's WRC and ignore that door ! :)

Well this thread has never been about not being allowed to express one's concerns and criticism about WRC. But if you do not have anything else to post thread after thread than
everything was soooo much better in the old days[/*:m:19kfpvpr]
there is too few quality drivers in WRC[/*:m:19kfpvpr]
there is too few manufactures in WRC[/*:m:19kfpvpr]
it is too expensive to drive in WRC[/*:m:19kfpvpr]
there is no competition[/*:m:19kfpvpr]
WRC is sooo dull[/*:m:19kfpvpr]and so on...then I don't understand why you need to hang on in this forum if you do not like the WRC?

pino

22nd December 2006, 13:58

Well this thread has never been about not being allowed to express one's concerns and criticism about WRC. But if you do not have anything else to post thread after thread than
everything was soooo much better in the old days[/*:m:3n1hsnpw]
there is too few quality drivers in WRC[/*:m:3n1hsnpw]
there is too few manufactures in WRC[/*:m:3n1hsnpw]
it is too expensive to drive in WRC[/*:m:3n1hsnpw]
there is no competition[/*:m:3n1hsnpw]
WRC is sooo dull[/*:m:3n1hsnpw]and so on...then I don't understand why you need to hang on in this forum if you do not like the WRC?

I don't think that people who moans or criticizes don't like WRC, they are just not happy the way it's now, why can't they say that in here ? besides, I didn't see many negative threads in here in the last 2 months...

Tomi

22nd December 2006, 14:08

I think this whining thing now and then comes, a few years it was about the ERC, how important series it is :) , now about this, that so many guys dont get a drive, to me this is how motorsport always has been, not a kindergarden game where everyone has a possibility to play.
But something dont change, the best guys still drives in the WRC, that was the same in group B old days too.
Time often glory memories, the biggest change i think is, now the best driver usually wins, in the past often the guy who could stay awake best did have the upper hand.
The dogs are barking , but the caravan moves on.

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 14:39

I don't think that people who moans or criticizes don't like WRC, they are just not happy the way it's now, why can't they say that in here ? besides, I didn't see many negative threads in here in the last 2 months...

You obviously haven't looked at many of the posts on the forum :)

I wasn't at all suggesting that people never discuss the negative things that happen in the WRC but just that it is not the only thing they discuss. Even though the WRC isn't perfect it's still the best international motorsport series on this planet. Isn't that something to be happy about rather to be moaning about all the time?

For instance I travelled all the way from Australia to Finland to see this boring and dull WRC and if I hadn't moved to the UK I'd have done it again this year :) Spending a couple of thousand Euros just to go and see 3 days of rallying is my idea of spending my money well!

We've got something good here so lets not waste our time always complaining about it. Yes lets talk about what we don't like but don't constantly go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it..........

JAM

22nd December 2006, 15:02

Ok Daniel. You wanted to shine in a thread, there you have. But do me a favour: don't come here talk rubish when you are the first to not be serious on the serious threads. Once you are always being ironic i don't understand your worries about what people write.

If WRC is well, then fans are well too. If WRC is not well, then fans are not well too. I can't see a problem here. My thread on the bottom of this post says all.

Once you didn't answered to my last question, wich shows the obvious "when i don't know what to answer i simply don't see the question"... Merry christmas to you.

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 15:23

My apologies JAM. I have mistreated you. I had a job interview this morning. Perhaps I should have stayed back and answered your post :rolleyes:

Donney

22nd December 2006, 18:22

Niether do I, so feel free to express yourself about today's WRC and ignore that door ! :)

I will after all it is not such a serious matter. :D

Donney

22nd December 2006, 18:27

Well this thread has never been about not being allowed to express one's concerns and criticism about WRC. But if you do not have anything else to post thread after thread than

everything was soooo much better in the old days[/*:m:3rt33jlp]
there is too few quality drivers in WRC[/*:m:3rt33jlp]
there is too few manufactures in WRC[/*:m:3rt33jlp]
it is too expensive to drive in WRC[/*:m:3rt33jlp]
there is no competition[/*:m:3rt33jlp]
WRC is sooo dull[/*:m:3rt33jlp]and so on...then I don't understand why you need to hang on in this forum if you do not like the WRC?

That's a way of seeing it. Other way is that when the door is shown to the ones who do all those horrible things, it looks like an open invitation to leave the forum, therefore it is easy to assume that the invitation is also open to not give you oppinion if it is contrary to the one of those who love WRC the way it is now.

In any case we will never agree on this subjecft and that is why rallying is such a great sport and this forum is so interesting.

Daniel

22nd December 2006, 22:55

To show someone the door is a figure of speach......

As everyone should know I'm not a mod or an admin. I can't ban people or tell them to leave the forum. Read my posts again and you'll see that's not actually what I'm seriously suggesting.

bowler

23rd December 2006, 00:04

The dogs are barking , but the caravan moves on.

nice phrase

Fleur

23rd December 2006, 01:21

Daniel,
I have to agree with your first post. There is far too much whining etc on this forum, hence the number of times I visit is greatly reduced this year.
I love rallying on any level, and understand there needs to be constructive critisism. But when it goes on and on and on... It just gets boring. And it does always seem to be the same people.

I liked the suggested idea of a DotWRC forum :)

Merry Christmas everyone :)

jso1985

23rd December 2006, 21:36

:up: Daniel

I know the WRC isn't perfect now, and this is a public forum and I like to read critisism and discuss about it, but it gets tiring when on it seems like in every single thread, wheter is the topic or not, lots of posts are just moaning about WRC, Mosley, etc., making clear that the current WRC is the dullest sport, so why they watch it anyway?, it's also tiring that when discussing if WRC is dull or not most posts are just "Ha ha, I feel sorry for you who can't see how the WRC sucks, haha, just wait till the IRC starts, haha, I'm gladly waiting for the WRC to die, haha"

Freya J.

2nd January 2007, 15:06

I read this forum regularly, post infrequently, but enjoy the banter. I agree in the main with what is said and feel those who don't agree have expressed themselves well but I get the sense that they like to disagree with the thread starter.

Hmm. At the risk of whinging, the WRC for me makes me sad and this is the first year in a very long time that I haven't felt great anticipation at the start of the new season. Roll on Monte doesn't get me going! I guess my toes are peeping out that door. Great thread though. really good to see people saying what they feel. :up:

Brother John

2nd January 2007, 15:42

And how much people have used the door? :down:

Tomi

2nd January 2007, 16:26

And how much people have used the door? :down:

I use everyday many times. :)

Freya J.

2nd January 2007, 16:48

And how much people have used the door? :down:

Perhaps it is a revolving door? :)

pentti

2nd January 2007, 21:26

Kaps

2nd January 2007, 23:19

Wise words from a true master! Couldn't agree more, pentti!

Let's just hope once the season gets underway, there won't be need for such silly & useless threads.

Josti

2nd January 2007, 23:42

I am actually looking forward for this season more than ever.We have more teams than ever in modern times.Ok there are only 3 very good drivers but the rest can also be interesting to follow.Citroen is changing cars.Is this a mistake? Is Mikko getting nearer to Marcus's pace? How is Hennig doing with a better car? What about Jari-Matti? Every body in the same make tyres. Mitsubishi back.Is Chris getting better? What about rally Norway,Ireland and Portucal! Can't wait.
Some aspects of rallying were better in what they call the golden area(1970's)sure but some of that area is not any more actepel in modern times. The biggest mistake was to allow 4wd. Like wings in F1. The only sport which seems to go better and better is Nascar. Even there some are complaining.

More teams than ever? I remember those years...2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, with at least 7 different manufacterers plus privateers. But ok, it's a bit ironic to complain in this thread :p :

I'm pretty excited about this season too. I think it will be an intresting battle between the new C4 and the Focus. I reckon Subaru can catch up again (Solberg is still motivated so..). And of course, Suzuki entering the scene later on this year. SuperRally seems to be improved, but let's wait how this will turn out.

Unfortunantly. I don't see great hopes for the M2 teams to win rallies, but w'll see. For me, it's still not entirely clear wich M2 teams are all participating. Will there be (Bozian) 307's entered this year, and what about Skoda's?

Well, let's just hope for a good year. I still consider 2003 the last one for WRC.