Grand Prix of Europe, Practice, Quals and Race

[Valve Bounce]

Just thought I'd kick off this thread. Anyone know what the weather will be?

[wmcot]

Just thought I'd kick off this thread. Anyone know what the weather will be?

Only half of it - Nights will be mostly dark! ;)

[CarlMetro]

Anyone know what the weather will be?

Supposed to be hot and sunny today, partly cloudy tomorrow and light rain on Sunday :s

20 minutes left in the first practice session. Lewis leading the two BMWs by less than a tenth of a second :s hock: Just 0.5 of a second covers the top six so far.

[ArrowsFA1]

1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:32.515 26
2. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:32.751 + 0.236 24
3. Alonso McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:32.932 + 0.417 27
4. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:32.975 + 0.460 35
5. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:33.205 + 0.690 34
6. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:33.605 + 1.090 24
7. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 1:33.825 + 1.310 32
8. Button Honda (B) 1:33.936 + 1.421 28
9. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:34.062 + 1.547 25
10. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:34.142 + 1.627 25
11. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:34.152 + 1.637 34
12. Wurz Williams-Toyota (B) 1:34.345 + 1.830 32
13. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:34.563 + 2.048 32
14. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:34.567 + 2.052 30
15. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:34.683 + 2.168 22
16. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:34.708 + 2.193 36
17. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:34.907 + 2.392 31
18. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:34.921 + 2.406 21
19. Fisichella Renault (B) 1:35.077 + 2.562 22
20. Speed Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:35.643 + 3.128 15
21. Sutil Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:36.340 + 3.825 22
22. Winkelhock Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:37.116 + 4.601 30

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60921

[dwf1]

YES!! Lewis bites back after silverstone! Take that F1!

[ArrowsFA1]

Something I spotted from an interview with Adrian Sutil

Q. Your first proper drive in an F1 car was at the Nurburgring last year. How excited are you to be back for your first home race?
AS: "Like you said, it was the first Friday last year, and I have good memories. The track is very nice, it's very special, it's a track with a lot of history..."
It's the Nurburgring Nordschleife that has a lot of history.

The current F1 circuit should not be mistaken for the Nordschleife.

[Flat.tyres]

Just thought I'd kick off this thread. Anyone know what the weather will be?

cant help this week as the man is incommunicado

Something I spotted from an interview with Adrian Sutil

It's the Nurburgring Nordschleife that has a lot of history.

The current F1 circuit should not be mistaken for the Nordschleife.

Well, no, it shouldn't be, but the current track has been part of F1 history for 23 years now.

Sutil's only 22.

Anything older than him is history.

[ArrowsFA1]

Sutil's only 22.

Anything older than him is history.
That's no excuse :p :

[pino]

It's raining at the moment so 2nd practice will be on wet...

[F1MAN2007]

Just thought I'd kick off this thread. Anyone know what the weather will be?


Fri : T-storms Hi 78° Lo 62°

Sat : Partly Cloudy Hi 74° Lo 49°

Sun : Showers Hi 65° Lo 55°

[ShiftingGears]

That's no excuse :p :

23 years and I still don't know anything memorable about the circuit besides the fact that its built next to a great circuit :p :

[veeten]

thank you Peter Windsor, for that impromptu interview with Bernie. Asked about the reason for the row about the USGP, and yes the reason was commercial interests.

His answer about having a future race in the US... " as soon as possible."

[Ranger]

I thought that this picture (http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/80025) was pretty cool - Alonso and Hamilton ripping up the Nordschleife!

[veeten]

oh, Markus. :(

better that all this happens today rather than Sunday, I guess. :s

[Valve Bounce]

I have a bad feeling about Markus Winklehock doing a one off in F1. Nothing can come of it as he is not even familiar with F1 cars.

[ArrowsFA1]

1. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:33.339 28
2. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:33.478 + 0.139 28
3. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:33.590 + 0.251 27
4. Alonso McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:33.637 + 0.298 30
5. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 1:33.668 + 0.329 18
6. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:33.746 + 0.407 22
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:33.845 + 0.506 24
8. Button Honda (B) 1:33.880 + 0.541 36
9. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:34.146 + 0.807 22
10. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:34.221 + 0.882 19
11. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:34.235 + 0.896 29
12. Wurz Williams-Toyota (B) 1:34.264 + 0.925 21
13. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:34.357 + 1.018 26
14. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:34.411 + 1.072 26
15. Fisichella Renault (B) 1:34.431 + 1.092 28
16. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:34.446 + 1.107 25
17. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:34.504 + 1.165 19
18. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:34.554 + 1.215 26
19. Speed Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:35.320 + 1.981 26
20. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:35.653 + 2.314 24
21. Sutil Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:36.527 + 3.188 25
22. Winkelhock Spyker-Ferrari (B) 1:37.319 + 3.980 19
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60930

[tintop]

I have a bad feeling about Markus Winklehock doing a one off in F1. Nothing can come of it as he is not even familiar with F1 cars.


Saw his Dad die right in front of me @ Mosport - inexcusable delay in rescue and medevac.

Always pull for Markus, but I suspect that you are right RE F1 experience.

[Flat.tyres]

I know its only P2 but the Honda looks like its had a bit of speed at last.

[jens]

Toyota looks like 4th strongest force at FPs, but I believe Renault is sandbagging, but in spite of that still a point is possible. What an achievement! :D

More seriously... does it look like McLaren is closer to Ferrari than in the previous two races?

[donKey jote]

Just thought I'd kick off this thread. Anyone know what the weather will be?

http://wetterstationen.meteomedia.de/messnetz/forecast/105060.html

http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/nuerburg-barweiler

http://www.wetteronline.de/radar/dldldrlp.htm

[Racehound]

Just thought I'd kick off this thread. Anyone know what the weather will be?
i have a slight suspicion its gonna be chucking it down on raceday :s mokin: , a proper wet race.......i dont know why i think that but its 1 of the things as we know that can mix it up a bit more!!!! :p about time we got a few variables coming into play, even if they are from good ole mother earth :p yes....i

[Valve Bounce]

I know its only P2 but the Honda looks like its had a bit of speed at last.


Sorry, wrong driver. Torro Rosso has Speed, Honda has bunsen.

[Valve Bounce]

i have a slight suspicion its gonna be chucking it down on raceday :s mokin: , a proper wet race.......i dont know why i think that but its 1 of the things as we know that can mix it up a bit more!!!! :p about time we got a few variables coming into play, even if they are from good ole mother earth :p yes....i

It's your Rhumatiz!! :p :

[Valve Bounce]

OK, I have three weather links above which I cannot make heads or tails of. For a start, where is the Nurburgring on the weather map - what station do we look for? Can somebody please give us a link. Thanks.

[Ian McC]

Quiet in here today, where is everyone hiding??

[Dave B]

I'm not hiding :wave:

[F1MAN2007]

This gonna be the key race for the championship?!

[Dave B]

Fantastic camera angle from Sutil's car, shame he's already out.

Lewis keeping his powder dry? ;)

[pino]

I am here too :wave:

[pino]

btw another disappointing Qual-session for Jenson :(

[Dave B]

Are Trulli's tyres coated with Teflon? They don't appear to be sticking to the track very much :s

Nice "Replay" graphic, no excuse for James Allen to get confused this weekend!

[Dave B]

Live timing is all screwed up, seems to be about a minute behind the action :\

[veeten]

maybe they were just too shy to come out to play. :o
:p

[pino]

Lewis off :s

[F1MAN2007]

another spin for the rookie?

[pino]

Tanks God he's ok :)

[F1MAN2007]

he is not looking well? something wrong?

[F1MAN2007]

sorry not his mistake

[veeten]

it's Jarno. He made 10th though, and that's good. :)

[pino]

Right tyre exploded :eek:

[Ranger]

Red flags, too. Hopefully he's ranked #10 by the end of the session - him fighting through the field should be good tomorrow. :)

[F1MAN2007]

is he ok? Or it was a disapointment? It took a little bit long for him to get off the car?

[Dave B]

Looks like a suspension problem caused the tyre to go. A huge impact and a worrying few seconds before he climbed out of the car. :s

Fingers crossed for Lewis and his race tomorrow.

[Valve Bounce]

I think the others will pick up a few points from Lewis tomorrow; can't see him getting a podium.

[F1MAN2007]

no, hope he is fine for tomorrow

[jonny hurlock]

looks like could be a right front suspension failled on him

[gm99]

It took quite a while for any safety workers to appear on the scene - quite surprising as usually the Germans are very safety-conscious.

[Valve Bounce]

Medics are attending to Lewis

[Ranger]

Medics are on the scene from what I can see on livetiming. Hope he's ok.

[F1MAN2007]

It took quite a while for any safety workers to appear on the scene - quite surprising as usually the Germans are very safety-conscious.

Think the place is too far from where they parked and maybe didn't think it was hard as it looks

[Dave B]

I'm not sure that the medics could have been any quicker. It's not part of the circuit where you'd normally expect anybody to go off. A fire marshal was on scene within about twenty seconds, a rescue vehicle about twenty seconds maximum after that.

[Valve Bounce]

Just saw on the TVU player that japan beat Socceroos 4-3 in a shootout. :(

[F1MAN2007]

I'm not sure that the medics could have been any quicker. It's not part of the circuit where you'd normally expect anybody to go off. A fire marshal was on scene within about twenty seconds, a rescue vehicle about twenty seconds maximum after that.

Hope he will race tomorrow? but the way he was shaking his legs it looks something ....

[Valve Bounce]

Hey!! you guys watching on the telly, please keep us posted.

What's happening on your screen?

[F1MAN2007]

Just saw on the TVU player that japan beat Socceroos 4-3 in a shootout. :(

:rolleyes:

[Dave B]

Hey!! you guys watching on the telly, please keep us posted.

What's happening on your screen?
Hi Valve :wave:

A big impact for Lewis, a tyre blowout possibly caused by a suspension or bearing failure. He took a few seconds to get out of the car, pausing partway looking very stiff and sore. Medics attended and stretchered him off to the medical centre, he was waving to the crowd. Car's just been towed off looking very battered - front-right totalled.

[Ian McC]

That took a long while to get him away from the area, I know they will take every precaution but it doesn't look good for tomorrow.

[Dave B]

Right-front wheel nut wasn't on properly, acording to RD. Wheel gun failed in the pits.

[veeten]

he should ask Kimi about McLaren's suspension troubles on this track.

[Racehound]

sorry not his mistake
i thought i saw something on the track just before the tyre blew!!!!!!! just a tiny bit of "something"???.....i dont know!!!!!.....

[Dave B]

Race control: restart in at least 15 minutes.

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe Lewis might miss the race tomorrow.

[Ian McC]

Failure of the wheel gun!!

[F1MAN2007]

Hey!! you guys watching on the telly, please keep us posted.

What's happening on your screen?

Lewis went off due (apparentely) to the front right suspension problems which may pushed the tyre to burst. Lewis was shakking a little bit his legs inside the car and took a little bit time for him to get off the car. Now he is taken by medics and now confirmation no serious hurt to him.

What caused the accident?

RD : "...not mechanical fault at the moment, as Alonso is using the same car and no problem for now. Mybe the wheel....."

[Racehound]

i thought i saw something on the track just before the tyre blew!!!!!!! just a tiny bit of "something"???.....i dont know!!!!!.....
blooooody hell!!!!....he was lucky,but hes not racing tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Racehound]

Lewis went off due (apparentely) to the front right suspension problems which may pushed the tyre to burst. Lewis was shakking a little bit his legs inside the car and took a little bit time for him to get off the car. Now he is taken by medics and now confirmation no serious hurt to him.

What caused the accident?

RD : "...not mechanical fault at the moment, as Alonso is using the same car and no problem for now. Mybe the wheel....."
as you now know Ron says its the wheel gun faulty

[F1MAN2007]

i thought i saw something on the track just before the tyre blew!!!!!!! just a tiny bit of "something"???.....i dont know!!!!!.....

Think that tiny thing is coming from the tyre not on the road otherwise he would have managed to escpae it?

[veeten]

i thought i saw something on the track just before the tyre blew!!!!!!! just a tiny bit of "something"???.....i dont know!!!!!.....

that was the air scoop for the brake. It broke away as the upright gave way and deranged the tire.

[Valve Bounce]

Boy!! you guys have great TV coverage

[F1MAN2007]

Do we expect Pedro tomorrow? I would wish to see the guy fighting from the Monkey's side and see what he can achieve? It would be great to see.

[Dave B]

How about instead of pointless specualtion about the cause, and Lewis' condition, what say we wait for announcements from the team? :rolleyes:

[Ranger]

:rolleyes:

Sadly, that's the extent of Australian TV coverage at the moment. :\

Ron is in the Medical Centre - does anyone know of Hamilton's condition?

[Ian McC]

If he races and depending on what they need to repair on the car, is there the chance he may get a 10 place penalty?

[Valve Bounce]

Do we expect Pedro tomorrow? I would wish to see the guy fighting from the Monkey's side and see what he can achieve? It would be great to see.

Where will PDLR start on the grid if he takes over from Lewis?

[Ian McC]

Sadly, that's the extent of Australian TV coverage at the moment. :\

Ron is in the Medical Centre - does anyone know of Hamilton's condition?

Only that he is awake and talking

[veeten]

It's the same feed, just that over here it's a 15 minute delay broadcasting it.

Peter Windsor reports that there was talk in the paddock during Silverstone that McLaren was having similar problems with the wheel mounts, and similar looseness with the front hubs.

[Valve Bounce]

How about instead of pointless specualtion about the cause, and Lewis' condition, what say we wait for announcements from the team? :rolleyes:


Sorry!! but I have to speculate. It's bloody 11.22 in the evening, and I'll fall off the chair, asleep, if I don't say something, anything!! :(

[F1MAN2007]

as you now know Ron says its the wheel gun faulty

Then it could happen to Alonso as well soon? :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

You think there's a smoking gun? :p :

[Valve Bounce]

OK, restart in 2 minutes

[Ian McC]

How about instead of pointless specualtion about the cause, and Lewis' condition, what say we wait for announcements from the team? :rolleyes:

Dave if we did we would all have nothing to say :p :

Ron says that he appears to have no injuries which is great news.

[F1MAN2007]

If he races and depending on what they need to repair on the car, is there the chance he may get a 10 place penalty?


I think not . Do you remember what happened to Kimmi in Monacco?

[Dave B]

Then it could happen to Alonso as well soon? :rolleyes:
Well the team have had 20 minutes to thoroughly check his car, so you wouldn't think so. In fact, the were checking the spare car before Lewis was even out of his car.

Update from Ron: "Lewis is fine, no broken bones. They may take him to hospital but there are no injuries. Far to early to say [for the race] but he doesn't appear to have any pain or broken bones. He didn't lose consciousness"

[Ian McC]

So, one lap for everyone to get pole, this should be interesting!

[Valve Bounce]

Benny Cousins played well today.

[Dave B]

Session restarting any moment.

[F1MAN2007]

Where will PDLR start on the grid if he takes over from Lewis?

I am not sure or it is too late for them to change a driver?

Which means Lewis has to race or not depending on how he will be feeling.

[Racehound]

No Flaming Way James Allen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!this

[Racehound]

come on Fernando!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

[F1MAN2007]

1 & 2 Ferrari tomorrow

[Valve Bounce]

Kimi will take pole!

[F1MAN2007]

come on Fernando!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)


Time for him if he wants to save his title

[Ian McC]

Great lap by Kimi! :D

[F1MAN2007]

Go kIMMI!!!!!!

[F1MAN2007]

Alonso sandwitched by the Ferrari!!!!

[Dave B]

That was a fast and furious end to an otherwise horrible session. Alonso would have been on pole but for a big wobble.

And nice to hear Murray for a change ;)

[F1MAN2007]

Lewis if fine tomorrow, he will start 1oth on grid. Not bad

[Valve Bounce]

Did you see Kimi's second sector time?

[Valve Bounce]

Goodnight all!!

[F1MAN2007]

Good night Guy

[Zico]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6909783.stm

I didn't see the accident but according to Five Live, Lewis's car is totalled, is this likely to be true?

If so.. Forget starting in 10th, wont he have to start the race from the pitlane for using the spare car?

[Racehound]

Alonso sandwitched by the Ferrari!!!!
or,...did Alonso split the Ferarris? :)

[Racehound]

Think that tiny thing is coming from the tyre not on the road otherwise he would have managed to escpae it?
mmm....good point......i looked away from the screeen for a split second and as i looked back 1sec before he went off i thought i saw him run over something on the circuit, but maybe it was the tyre failing.... :)

[Racehound]

It's your Rhumatiz!! :p :
ha ha....hey!!!....youre right!!! :)

[donKey jote]

OK, I have three weather links above which I cannot make heads or tails of. For a start, where is the Nurburgring on the weather map - what station do we look for? Can somebody please give us a link. Thanks.

http://wetterstationen.meteomedia.de/messnetz/forecast/105060.html:
Local Weather station in Nürburg/Barweiler (=as close as you get to the Nürburgring); Sonntag=Sunday; Temperatur=Temperature; Niederschlag=Precipitation; Wind=wind; Sonnenschein=sunshine; all over 6 hour periods


http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/nuerburg-barweiler:
Local Weather station in Nürburg/Barweiler (=as close as you get to the Nürburgring)

http://www.wetteronline.de/radar/dldldrlp.htm[/QUOTE]
rain radar... the Nürburgring is straight left of Koblenz, almost at the Land border, 7 o'clockish from Bonn. According to the first two links it should be dry, but check here for any local Eiffel showers :)

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Valve Bounce]

Thanks donk.

[Valve Bounce]

OK, can I direct everyone who wants to chat to go to teh top of this page and click on th elink for the chat room. Seeya there.

[Ian McC]

Rain in 3 minutes! :eek:

[pino]

4 cars off, Lewis among them :s

[pino]

Lewis back on track...

[dont_be_jack]

Just amazing to see the cars go off the track like that! It's almost entertaining just to watch these cars designed for speed limp through the rain at civilian speeds!

[MadCat]

Red Flagged

[Ian McC]

:eek:

Carnage!!!

[Bezza]

What the rules now then? Is it a total restart with all cars back to there original grid slots? Or positions as they are at the moment of red flag? Never seen the rain come down so quickly like that!

[Dave B]

What an amazing four laps! I'm surprised it took so long to be red flagged, but the correct decision was made.

Winklehock on pole for the restart! :D

[dont_be_jack]

Look at the weather now!

[Dave B]

What the rules now then? Is it a total restart with all cars back to there original grid slots? Or positions as they are at the moment of red flag? Never seen the rain come down so quickly like that!
>2 laps it's a restart based on their running positions.

[dont_be_jack]

What the rules now then? Is it a total restart with all cars back to there original grid slots? Or positions as they are at the moment of red flag? Never seen the rain come down so quickly like that!
I just heard on Speed that the race is suspended during red flag, drivers hold the positions they had and the lap count remains the same but the race clock still runs.

[MadCat]

Winklehock on his home GP on pole :D

What an amazing race so far! Rain one minute, sun the next - literally! I hope the Spyker can retain its lead but I cant see that happening :p :

[Bezza]

Winkelhock is the best driver of all time, clearly! His father Manfred was a courageous driver I can see the similarities in his son. :up:

[dont_be_jack]

More rain in 12 minutes! How crazy is this! Amazing. I wouldn't have wanted to miss this race. Good thing I woke up.

[Dave B]

Restart at xx:35, so just in time for more rain according to that forecast!

[ozrevhead]

Winkelhock is the best driver of all time, clearly! His father Manfred was a courageous driver I can see the similarities in his son. :up:

If he gets a podium out of this it would be fantastic

Mark in 4th - Needs a great start!

[zoostation]

that was just barmy

my mum was just laughing at the 'car park' at turn 1.

more rain coming?

p.s. go winkelhock XD

[MadCat]

Off behind the safety car now. Could be very very interesting if it rains again, Winklehock to capitalise once again maybe?

[dont_be_jack]

No rain for 30 minutes. Hamilton was allowed to get his lap back, but no one can really tell us why. HAMILTON JUST TOOK DRY TIRES!

[Dave B]

Lewis sneakily onto dry tyres. Interesting gamble...

[dont_be_jack]

Dry tires made Lewis go off track and he got lapped again. But if the rain holds off for the 30 minutes they reported now, he could get his lap back if the drivers dive in to get off those intermediate rain.

[MadCat]

Obviously the wrong gamble now .. unless McLaren have seen another weather report? :s

[Dave B]

...which didn't work.

[dont_be_jack]

Hamilton just got up to speed in sector 3...who's going to change tires?

[dont_be_jack]

Kimi in, Sectors 2 and 3 are good for dry tires.

[dont_be_jack]

Gamble may have paid off now for Hamilton...

[MadCat]

Is the gamble beginning to pay off I wonder? Hamilton now setting the pace, fastest lap two times in a row

[Dave B]

Fastest laps, certainly, but not a lot of use when you're a lap down in 17th :(

[dont_be_jack]

Well, there was some hope that he could've made up some of the time, but I don't think it happened. He's catching up, but not fast enough.

[DaveTaylor]

Hamilton what a cheat since when have you been allowed to be lifted out of the gravel traps by the telehandlers and put back on track, that in my
book is cheating he shouldn't even be on track

[Dave B]

His car was judged to have been in a dangerous position by race control, and as his engine was still running he was put back on track.

[DaveTaylor]

He was just about touching the tire wall. Engine running or not he was stuck you ain't allowed a push from the marshalls the only lift should have been away from 'the danger zone'

[Rollo]

We all learnt the specifics of this at this very circuit when Michael Schumacher benefitted from this a few years ago.

Not in a dangerous position? The car could have been hit by several other and was nearly collected by a Spyker. Position proven, and at any rate, there were no protests from any other team.

[Dave B]

What Rollo said :up:

[Ian McC]

Hamilton what a cheat since when have you been allowed to be lifted out of the gravel traps by the telehandlers and put back on track, that in my
book is cheating he shouldn't even be on track


Best you go away and learn the rules before you accuse people of cheating ;)

[Ian McC]

What do we think, Alonso get any sort of penalty for that release in the pits?

[Erki]

Hamilton and McLaren took the gamble, but they also afforded to do it. Not what one could say of Renault and Kovalainen. :down:

[Erki]

What do we think, Alonso get any sort of penalty for that release in the pits?

What do you mean? I didn't see anything suspicious. :o

[Erki]

What happened to Webber after the chicane on the last lap? Damn, I hoped Wurz would get past him there but looks like he got stuck instead or something.

[VkmSpouge]

Very exciting race. Rain is always such a good thing in races.

Markus Winkelhock had one hell of a debut! From last to first in the space of one and a half laps! Great gamble by Spyker :D

Felipe Massa looked to have the race sewn up but that last downpour flipped things in Alonso's favour. Alonso did a superb overtaking move on the struggling Ferrari to win the race.

Mark Webber's luck finally held and he scored a wonderful podium finish. Red Bull and Wurz were the main beneficiaries of the rain.

Lewis Hamilton had an eventful weekend. Seems like that all the adversity he's missed in the first half of the season came back to him at the Nürburgring.

[Garry Walker]

Pretty interesting race, but in a way, it was a bit of a joke too.

[F1MAN2007]

What do you mean? I didn't see anything suspicious. :o

Nothing suspicious in that unless the speed limit in pit lane. If Alonso drove above the limit then penality apply

[F1MAN2007]

Pretty interesting race, but in a way, it was a bit of a joke too.

It was a pure gambling!!! :D

[ioan]

And Lewis can't get through the field better than Felipe, no matter what the Brits believe!

[Dave B]

Lewis made the wrong call on tyre choice, and admitted as much to ITV. However, he did set a string of fastest laps during the first two stints, and made overtaking look relatively simple.

[Ian McC]

And Lewis can't get through the field better than Felipe, no matter what the Brits believe!


:dozey:

[Bezza]

Lewis made the wrong call on tyre choice, and admitted as much to ITV. However, he did set a string of fastest laps during the first two stints, and made overtaking look relatively simple.

He made a few mistakes this weekend but he'll learn from it. Overtaking is relatively simple when you are in a McLaren and your passing slower cars ;) Alonso's pass on Massa was the killer.

[Erki]

Who was that Toro Rosso who nearly took out that tractor in T1? That looked scary... good for him that he didn't go there head-on like MS @ Interlagos 2003...

Sutil and Hamilton were also quite lucky that Sutil didn't crash into LH. :eek:

[N. Jones]

Does anyone know who had the fastest lap of the race? I haven't seen it on three websites (formula1.com included). I need it so I can finish the FGP results!

And it looks like I am going to have to tape the replay as I missed the first half of the race due to being asleep! :)

[Dave B]

Massa, 1:32.853 on lap 34

[donKey jote]

Massa...
in the dry ;) :D

[N. Jones]

Thanks!

[jens]

I was surprised that no-one else besides Markus took the gamble and decided for wets as it was clear that it would start raining and therefore was even strange to see everyone coming in after Lap1.

And that Hamilton was put back on the track by a crane - well, that's something I've never seen before!

And that 6 cars or something went off in the same corner on the same lap. When did that happen last time? I remember that in 1975, when Brambilla won the Austrian Grand Prix, something similar happened on the last lap, but... somewhere some time else?

[Erki]

I was surprised that no-one else besides Markus took the gable and decided for wets as it was clear that it would start raining and therefore was even strange to see everyone coming in after Lap1.

I was baffled by that too. And even more amazed that not everyone came to pits after the first lap(and I don't mean KR here). I think people like DC, Toro Rossos and Super Aguris could have benefited from that quite a bit.

[gm99]

And that 6 cars or something went off in the same corner on the same lap. When did that happen last time? I remember that in 1975, when Brambilla won the Austrian Grand Prix, something similar happened on the last lap, but... somewhere some time else?

The 2003 Brazilian GP (that Fisico ultimately won) comes to mind - a number of cars, including Michael Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya, went off at the same corner, too in heavy rain.

[jens]

The 2003 Brazilian GP (that Fisico ultimately won) comes to mind - a number of cars, including Michael Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya, went off at the same corner, too in heavy rain.

Yeah, but all those crashes didn't happen on the same lap! :)

[andreag]

I was surprised that no-one else besides Markus took the gable and decided for wets as it was clear that it would start raining and therefore was even strange to see everyone coming in after Lap1.
Not so surprising. The race wasn't declared wet on start, so the only way to change to wet tyres was entering the pits after formation lap, and starting the race from there.

It wasn't a problem for the german driver, as he already was the last one on the grid, but too risky for the rest if rain starts after two laps, not one. He was lucky either of rain started on first lap, or either having the best meteorologist on his team.

Think of Massa (is just an example), entering the pits after formation lap, starting the race from the bottom of the grid, and loosing 5 seconds per lap during the first two laps. He would never be on top after the fourth lap.

And the second point is what kind of tyre should they have selected; medium of full wet? Marcus was on full wet (the right choice) if those five cars on medium wet wouldn't crashed on turn 1. After the crash, and the long pause, the track wasn't good for the full wet tyres, and the advantage gained by the Spyker (around 30 seconds) vanished.

[Erki]

Can anyone explain me, why did Hamilton get his lost lap back behind the safety car?

[F1MAN2007]

And Lewis can't get through the field better than Felipe, no matter what the Brits believe!

Still they will tell you that he has finished 9 times on podium in his 10 races started so far!! ;)

[F1MAN2007]

Can anyone explain me, why did Hamilton get his lost lap back behind the safety car?

Because he was put back on the track by a crane.

[gm99]

Yeah, but all those crashes didn't happen on the same lap! :)

Oh sorry, I thought they did - well, it's been a while ;)

[donKey jote]

Because he was put back on the track by a crane.

that was one FAST crane :p :

[Robinho]

crazy race, some many variables and "ifs", i'd forgotton what had happened to half the field by the time it dried out, only to see it all on replays.

with a couple of minor changes on tyres and timings we could have had an entirely different result.

Lewis didn't seem to get a lot of luck at first, a storming start, was 4th/5th as he took the squabbling BMW's, only to lose the lot from a puncture, looked to have been saved by the rain when everyone had to stop and was still in the pack, only to drop it in the 1st corner car graveyard. lucky not to damage the car and have the prescence of mind to stay in the car and keep the engine running and await rescue.

the tyre gamble was a close call, "if" he'd managed to stay on track at the hairpin he would have been ahead of the field for a while longer and not lost so much beforethe drys came good, but that was the risk of such a gamble.

then a storming drive through the field, fastest driver on the track for a good portion of the dry running, and nearly got lucky at the end when the weather turned, had he stayed out 2 laps longer at he start and one lap less at the end he may have been fighting fro higher points - i don't think anyone else had a more eventful race!!

great drive at the front, Alonso did well to keep the pressure on all race to allow the chance to take Massa when the weather turned, Nurburgring clearly hates Kimi.

as for the rain, safety car, red flag confusion, i was completley lost for a while there

[DaveTaylor]

Hamilton should never have been put back on track unless you can get the car back on track under it's own power then fine but if you can't then you are out of the race end of. I don't give a stuff whether he kept his engine running or not it was blatant cheating and then to get his lap back what what an F1 joke
i thought they were just gonna stop the race and give the victory to hamilton

[donKey jote]

Anything Schu can do Lew can do better :D

[donKey jote]

Did anyone else see Webber almost stop at the last corner ?
What happened there ?
Wurz never complained so it couldn't have been a brake test now could it ? :andrea:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Hamilton should never have been put back on track unless you can get the car back on track under it's own power then fine but if you can't then you are out of the race end of. I don't give a stuff whether he kept his engine running or not it was blatant cheating and then to get his lap back what what an F1 joke
i thought they were just gonna stop the race and give the victory to hamilton

They had to move his anyway as it was in a dangerous position, so why not put him back on to the track if his car still works?

I thought that keeping his engine running was a moment of ingenious ingenuity by Hamilton, although his decision to change to slicks wasn't :p

I was gutted that Button went off when he was looking good for a strong finish.

[jens]

Anything Schu can do Lew can do better :D


:laugh:

When the crane put Lewis back on the track, I thought that he is such a star in F1 that his retirement will never be allowed. Whatever happens, he must stay in the race, otherwise the crowds will lose interest! :D

[tinchote]

The pace-car passing is the regulations since this year. It already happened at Monaco, if I'm not wrong.

The crane thing sounds like illegal, I don't think that shouldn't happen. Suppose Massa and Alonso go out together fighting for the lead: who does the crane help first?

[ioan]

One thing was clear Lewis can't storm the field like others do. As for the crane episode, it was really weird.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

One thing was clear Lewis can't storm the field like others do. As for the crane episode, it was really weird.

Explain yourself?

If you are trying to compare his situation to Massa's at Britain then it's like comparing apples and oranges.

At Silverstone Massa started from the pit lane, Hamilton was 1 lap down! Slight difference.

[ioan]

Explain yourself?

If you are trying to compare his situation to Massa's at Britain then it's like comparing apples and oranges.

At Silverstone Massa started from the pit lane, Hamilton was 1 lap down! Slight difference.

ha ha ha!
Hamilton started 10th for your info, no one starts one lap down. He started 17th at the restart too, not one lap down as they allowed him to unlap himself under the SC.

Thanks however for proving my point about the Brits! :p :

[Brown, Jon Brow]

ha ha ha!
Hamilton started 10th for your info, no one starts one lap down. He started 17th at the restart too, not one lap down as they allowed him to unlap himself under the SC.

Thanks however for proving my point about the Brits! :p :

You haven't proved anything really? :confused:

At Silverstone Massa started 4th but finish 5th, how rubbish does that make him?

Hamilton was effectively one lap down as he was on slicks. After a few racing laps he when everything settled down he was around 30 seconds behind Trulli but finished 4places ahead of him.

[DonnieDarco]

Lovely little MS/Ron moment on the podium, when MS got owned by Ron and had a face like a slapped Ar$e - That'll teach him to get up on the podium ;) :D

[andreag]

At Silverstone Massa started from the pit lane, Hamilton was 1 lap down! Slight difference.
At Nurburgring Hamilton started from the 10th position on the grid, wich is better than starting from the pitlane.

How a driver administrate his race after start is part of the game.

Alonso also started from 10th at Magny Cours, and suffered a wrong strategy (105 kg fuel load), he managed to finish 7th despite everything, and was critiziced for not overtaking again the BMW's. But he had to administrate the race from the same 10th position.

IMO both (Massa at Silverstone, and Alonso at Magny Cours) did a better race than Lewis did today. Even David Coulthard, starting today from the 20th position and finishing 5th did it better.

And about "starting" one lap behind, it was his decisión (or RD's one) of changing tyres before the rest, as he had his chance to recover the lap when the Safety Car let him pass. If he hadn't change tyres, he would restart from the 17th position, on a mere 300 meters behind the head of the race (in fact he would restart behind Heidfeld, who finish 6th).

If Lewis hadn't had the puncture, he would have to wait at the pits, as Fernando had entered first to change tyres, so the puncture didn't delay him at all.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

At Nurburgring Hamilton started from the 10th position on the grid, wich is better than starting from the pitlane.

How a driver administrate his race after start is part of the game.

Alonso also started from 10th at Magny Cours, and suffered a wrong strategy (105 kg fuel load), he managed to finish 7th despite everything, and was critiziced for not overtaking again the BMW's. But he had to administrate the race from the same 10th position.

IMO both (Massa at Silverstone, and Alonso at Magny Cours) did a better race than Lewis did today. Even David Coulthard, starting today from the 20th position and finishing 5th did it better.

And about "starting" one lap behind, it was his decisión (or RD's one) of changing tyres before the rest, as he had his chance to recover the lap when the Safety Car let him pass. If he hadn't change tyres, he would restart from the 17th position, on a mere 300 meters behind the head of the race (in fact he would restart behind Heidfeld, who finish 6th).

If Lewis hadn't had the puncture, he would have to wait at the pits, as Fernando had entered first to change tyres, so the puncture didn't delay him at all.


Agreed :up:

But Ioan said that Lewis proved he couldn't storm up the field like others, which is a crazy statement.

Just watch the highlights for GP2 at Istanbul last year.

[Dave B]

Some of the above posts seem to forget that Hamilton was caught up in the BMW's accident and had to pit to repair a puncture.

He messed up his tyre choice today and I'm not defending him on that, but he set a succession of fastest laps and made some good overtaking moves. Not his finest couple of hours, but no excuse for some of the bashing he's coming in for this evening.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Some of the above posts seem to forget that Hamilton was caught up in the BMW's accident and had to pit to repair a puncture.

He messed up his tyre choice today and I'm not defending him on that, but he set a succession of fastest laps and made some good overtaking moves. Not his finest couple of hours, but no excuse for some of the bashing he's coming in for this evening.


You can't expect him to make the correct decisions in a race with changeable conditions when he's never raced in a wet GP. But his overtaking was pretty good, especially the 1st one on Giancarlo Fisichella on the grass!

[Erki]

Lewis' puncture didn't change anything, he still would have had to go to pits - it was goddamn raining!

[andreag]

Some of the above posts seem to forget that Hamilton was caught up in the BMW's accident and had to pit to repair a puncture.
I didn't forget the puncture, as I said in my post, but it didn't really make a difference as both McLarens couldn't change tyres at the same time. So he had to wait anyway.


...but he set a succession of fastest laps...
He did most of that laps when he was driving on a clear track during the second stint. Alonso's front wings were wrongly set up during that stint (Ron Dennis had admited), and this was clear when it was reset up on his next stop, recovering most of his lost time to Massa. In fact Fernando's fastest lap was fastest than Lewis' ones.

[Ian McC]

ha ha ha!
Hamilton started 10th for your info, no one starts one lap down. He started 17th at the restart too, not one lap down as they allowed him to unlap himself under the SC.

Thanks however for proving my point about the Brits! :p :

I think his point was you can't compare the two incidents as Hamilton was in such a position, for whatever the reason, not to be able to try and make his way through the field.

And as far as Brits go, where was a point proven? Or have you taken a national poll :rolleyes:

[ioan]

I think his point was you can't compare the two incidents as Hamilton was in such a position, for whatever the reason, not to be able to try and make his way through the field.

Yeah sure, and whatever he did to get in that position had nothing to do with him.


And as far as Brits go, where was a point proven? Or have you taken a national poll :rolleyes:

Hamilton mania is very well documented phenomenon in GB, no need for a poll.

[Mickey T]

But Ioan said that Lewis proved he couldn't storm up the field like others, which is a crazy statement....



really? you attribute some credibility to its author?

if so, you should have seen his hero's shirt on the rostrum...

[race aficionado]

A question here and sorry if it's beem addressed:
Why was Massa do peeo'd with FA?

[donKey jote]

because alonso nabbed him :D

[F1MAN2007]

Another question:

In the past, did a crane put back any driver from the sand to the road and let him racing again? If yes, when and who was the driver helped by the crane?

[andreag]

I've found an explanation for the crane putting back Lewis' car on the track:

http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anthony20hamiltonsu4.jpg

(I swear it's not mine; I just found it accidentally).

[donKey jote]

:up: :laugh: :laugh:

[F1MAN2007]

I've found an explanation for the crane putting back Lewis' car on the track:

http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anthony20hamiltonsu4.jpg

(I swear it's not mine; I just found it accidentally).

:bounce: :laugh: :laugh: :beer:

[gm99]

The crane thing sounds like illegal, I don't think that shouldn't happen. Suppose Massa and Alonso go out together fighting for the lead: who does the crane help first?

I'm totally with you on that:
I thought it was unfair when the marshals pushed Schumi back on the track at the Nürburgring a couple of years ago and I think it was unfair that Hamilton was lifted back unto the track today. One of the central points of the FIA Sporting Regulations is that a driver must drive the car “alone and unaided”. To me, this means that if a driver cannot get out of the gravel trap alone and unaided, he should not take any further part in the race. Also, the way the rule is currently being interpreted, with the marshals being allowed to get the car back on track if it is parked in a dangerous position, it’s basically left up to the discretion of the track marshals whether or not any given car is allowed to continue. That means that track marshals ultimately have the power to decide (in the spur of a moment) the outcome of a race and possibly even a championship. Can't really blame the driver or the team for taking advantage of that rule interpretation, but it really ought to be changed.

[jso1985]

He didn't score any point anyway so not much advantage taken.
But he shouldn't have been allowed to re-join IMO, ok he was in a dangerous position but c'mon getting the help of a crane to get bakc on track clearly kills the idea of "unaided" driving!

as for not being as good as Massa, wasn't Hamilton already 4th after the first turn? whatever happened next is another story but looks like he can storm through the field better than Massa!

and finally, well done Alonso on that classy move :up: :D

[52Paddy]

Well, you're probably all in the middle of discussing something particular but I still think this is the best opportunity to air my opinions on todays race.

First off, the race itself was fantastic and, even though I did miss 3 races this year, I vote this as the best of the season so far. It was certainly spiced up by the rain at the beginning and end of the race but I think that it produced a lot of good battles throughout the field and, towards the end, for the lead of the race. It was watchable right the way through. I think Alonso's move on Massa at the end was a 'hard but fair' case. Although, I think that he should have taught twice about leaving the pitlane so abruptly and nearly colliding with that Renault. Kovalainen's gamble could have been a lot worse if it had not rained. When he went for full wets, he lost too much time in waiting for the rain but I was still glad to see him get a point for the bravery of his risk.

It was also nice to see Marcus Winklehok leading, albeit that he was really nothing in comparison to the other drivers at the race restart. I'm glad, too, to see Mark Webber get onto the podium. I thought it was careless of him to almost throw it away to Wurz at the end but he just about hung on.

A final word I'll say for Hamilton. I'm glad that he didn't get onto the podium or into the points today. This is another learning curve for him and he needs a kick in the balls like this. Reality really hit him in the face when his string of podiums ended and his championship lead was immensly decreased. His spin off in those awful conditions was down to lack of experience, I believe, and this is where the likes of Massa, Alonso and Raikkonen had the edge. Ok, Button spun at the same point too....maybe that's a contradiction! Whatever about that, his charge up through the field was pretty impressive. I think to go out on dry tryes so early after his first (or was it second) stop was a little optimistic. That yielded his chances of more progress but I'm not making it excuses for him. Tough look on his part. There's no point excluding any factors what happened to him today and saying "He could have...would have etc". He didn't and at the end of the day, that's what matters. Anyway, its been a while, just wanted to put in a post to break the ice!

[Timber]

I've found an explanation for the crane putting back Lewis' car on the track:

http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anthony20hamiltonsu4.jpg

(I swear it's not mine; I just found it accidentally).


That is very , very funny !!!!!
Does his dad work for the team ? he is there all the times at every races .

[ottostreet]

best thing about today:

going on to itv's website and seeing a picture with the following caption: "Markus Winklehock leads his home grand prix by 33 seconds on lap 2!"

a sentence which 24 hours ago was unimaginable, and if broken up into three seperate parts, just gets funnier and funnier!

[ioan]

as for not being as good as Massa, wasn't Hamilton already 4th after the first turn? whatever happened next is another story but looks like he can storm through the field better than Massa!

Sure, that's why he came home 9th out of 13! :p :
Keep them coming Hamy fans, it's really hilarious to read your excuses! :D

[Ranger]

Hamilton had a crap race, but he didn't race too poorly either, given that it was pretty much roulette out there with the odds not in his favour. Hence the comparisons with Massa's Silverstone drive in completely dry conditions is redundant. One race does not maketh the man.

But personally I don't care. I'll be remembering that Grand Prix for a while! :D

[punkologist]

I haven't seen the race yet (waiting for the ITV coverage to download as the coverage in Aus is pathetic), but saw that Webber finished third. What a great result for Red Bull and Australian fans! Mark really deserves it, he has to be one of the unluckiest drivers going around. Williams was dreadfully unreliable while he was there and red bull hasn't been much better till now, lets hope this is not the last podium for him this year.

[Robinho]

Ioan, i know your only playing devils advocate, and sure, a number of things stuffed Hamilton's race, some his own doing, some not.

from the start he passed from 10th to fighting for 4th, only to get a puncture in someone elses incident, which i call as unlucky, the first few corners from Lewis were electric, if you missed it try and find the on board shots up top the point where the BMW's decided to take each other out :)

he crashed in the water, which was hardly a surprise, many did, but could be taken as a mistake of his, and he has to be considered extremely fortunate to be able to rejoin the track.

the tyre call was risky and failed, again, his bad, but he made the best of it. he then lapped as quick or quicker than the leaders for the entire dry running and passed every car he came upon until the end of the race, what more could he do form that position.

yes its an excuse, but everything stemmed from the puncture in the 1st lap incident, had he got away with that anything could have happened, and might well have made the podium.

i'm not going to criticise him for gambling from a position where he had little to lose on the tyres, nor for driving at the leaders pace and passing everything he caught.

i can understand your need to fire in a few shots at those who called Massa on not passing more cars at Silverstone (or melbourne), but you aren't doing much to hold up a perception of being an intelligent, rational F1 fan which you want to be considered when discussing other points on the board, not least when defending your favourites ;)

[ioan]

Ioan, i know your only playing devils advocate, and sure, a number of things stuffed Hamilton's race, some his own doing, some not.

from the start he passed from 10th to fighting for 4th, only to get a puncture in someone elses incident, which i call as unlucky, the first few corners from Lewis were electric, if you missed it try and find the on board shots up top the point where the BMW's decided to take each other out :)

he crashed in the water, which was hardly a surprise, many did, but could be taken as a mistake of his, and he has to be considered extremely fortunate to be able to rejoin the track.

the tyre call was risky and failed, again, his bad, but he made the best of it. he then lapped as quick or quicker than the leaders for the entire dry running and passed every car he came upon until the end of the race, what more could he do form that position.

yes its an excuse, but everything stemmed from the puncture in the 1st lap incident, had he got away with that anything could have happened, and might well have made the podium.

i'm not going to criticise him for gambling from a position where he had little to lose on the tyres, nor for driving at the leaders pace and passing everything he caught.

i can understand your need to fire in a few shots at those who called Massa on not passing more cars at Silverstone (or melbourne), but you aren't doing much to hold up a perception of being an intelligent, rational F1 fan which you want to be considered when discussing other points on the board, not least when defending your favourites ;)

Let's judge him after the restart, he was 17th and last (although not 22nd but let it be) as Felipe 2 weeks ago. This way we don't account neither for his tire damage, which was not his fault, nor for going of the track, although this was clearly only of his own doing.

So setting everything equal for them why is that he only managed to finish 9th?
I mean Heidfeld finished 6th after making 6 pit stops, and he wasn't posting the 2nd fastest lap times.

Still the same ones that said that Massa is no good because couldn't pass Kubica after coming from dead last to 5th say Hamilton did well to go from 17th to 9th! People are clearly brainwashed by James Allen and the Hamilton mania. For God's sake, the guy couldn't make it around the first corner when the rain hit the track, still some are expecting him to win the championship. :rolleyes:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Still the same ones that said that Massa is no good because couldn't pass Kubica after coming from dead last to 5th say Hamilton did well to go from 17th to 9th! People are clearly brainwashed by James Allen and the Hamilton mania. For God's sake, the guy couldn't make it around the first corner when the rain hit the track, still some are expecting him to win the championship. :rolleyes:

You can't compare a race that was held in perfect conditions to one that went dry, wet, dry, wet!!!

[donKey jote]

(Hamilton) crashed in the water, which was hardly a surprise, many did,

I'll play ioan's advocate a bit... :devil:

it was hardly a surprise, after all, many of the top drivers did (including Button ;) and almost Massa :p : )

[Robinho]

Let's judge him after the restart, he was 17th and last (although not 22nd but let it be) as Felipe 2 weeks ago. This way we don't account neither for his tire damage, which was not his fault, nor for going of the track, although this was clearly only of his own doing.

So setting everything equal for them why is that he only managed to finish 9th?
I mean Heidfeld finished 6th after making 6 pit stops, and he wasn't posting the 2nd fastest lap times.

Still the same ones that said that Massa is no good because couldn't pass Kubica after coming from dead last to 5th say Hamilton did well to go from 17th to 9th! People are clearly brainwashed by James Allen and the Hamilton mania. For God's sake, the guy couldn't make it around the first corner when the rain hit the track, still some are expecting him to win the championship. :rolleyes:

ok judging form the restart he was last, but when he was allowed to unlap him self, even if he hadn't pitted straight away he still would have been 1/2 to 3/4 of a lap behind the cars as they were released from the safety car. as it was he made a bad call and pitted for tyres that were wrong for that time and ended up miles behind but just on the lead lap. he could not have physically overtaken cars that were not there, everything he caught (whilst equally the leaders times) he passed.

his mistake was not staying out for 2 or 3 laps on the wet tyres, and it was a mistake, and that was the reason he didn't do as well as Felipe (who i thought did pretty good in Britain actually).

he should have stayed out, and then probably would have done far better and made the points. equally he shouldn't have gone off in the wet, if he hadn't he could have been potentially fighting for the podium and more, but given the circumstances he found himslef in (partly his own fault) he could not have done more on the track from that deficit.

[punkologist]

the guy couldn't make it around the first corner when the rain hit the track, still some are expecting him to win the championship. :rolleyes:

you clearly are a Ferrari fanboy.

It was like a river at turn one, the cars just float on top, not exactly surprising than a whole host of cars just floated of the track.

[ioan]

you clearly are a Ferrari fanboy.

It was like a river at turn one, the cars just float on top, not exactly surprising than a whole host of cars just floated of the track.

A lot bigger host of cars made it through however, including Markus Winkelhock in his first ever F1 race after only a few hundreds of testing kms! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

ok judging form the restart he was last, but when he was allowed to unlap him self, even if he hadn't pitted straight away he still would have been 1/2 to 3/4 of a lap behind the cars as they were released from the safety car. as it was he made a bad call and pitted for tyres that were wrong for that time and ended up miles behind but just on the lead lap. he could not have physically overtaken cars that were not there, everything he caught (whilst equally the leaders times) he passed.

his mistake was not staying out for 2 or 3 laps on the wet tyres, and it was a mistake, and that was the reason he didn't do as well as Felipe (who i thought did pretty good in Britain actually).

he should have stayed out, and then probably would have done far better and made the points. equally he shouldn't have gone off in the wet, if he hadn't he could have been potentially fighting for the podium and more, but given the circumstances he found himslef in (partly his own fault) he could not have done more on the track from that deficit.

Fair enough.
Let's just conclude that he isn't ready to win the WDC no matter what people believe.

[ioan]

You can't compare a race that was held in perfect conditions to one that went dry, wet, dry, wet!!!

It was the same for everyone not just for Hamilton!

[Flat.tyres]

A lot bigger host of cars made it through however, including Markus Winkelhock in his first ever F1 race after only a few hundreds of testing kms! :rolleyes:

on wet tyres.

it was a mistake that a lot of drivers made. Massa nearly came a cropper and then they started coming off one after the other. by that time, the teams were on the radio getting everyone to slow down.

it was crazy out there with no grip whatsoever. even seasoned drivers with acknowledged prowess in the rain like Button went off and Kimi slid out of the pit lane on hi in lap.

what really wrecked his race was the puncture on the debris which took him out of 4th. if he had of maintained 4th, there was a good chance he would have made it around that corner as there was less water there when the leaders went around and if that was the case, may well have finished on the podium again with Kimi going out and Massa struggleing with a wet track.

those are IF's though and the fact is that a puncture from debris ruined any real hope and some incorrect tyre calls, whether from the team or driver, further compounded the problem.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It was the same for everyone not just for Hamilton!

You are comparing two races though, not one race :confused:

[ioan]

You are comparing two races though, not one race :confused:

If they didn't start the same race at the back of the field! :rolleyes:
You should however think about how they all compete against the same guys every other week end, the race conditions are the same for all of them and also have the same length.
So, what's you problem in the end? That Hamilton isn't as good as you thought?
Learn to live with it for a few seasons, than he might come good enough to beat fast and seasoned drivers.

[Robinho]

Fair enough.
Let's just conclude that he isn't ready to win the WDC no matter what people believe.

i am fine with you concluding that Ioan, its your perogative. for me his performances this year have brought me to my own conclusion that he is ready to win a championship. it may not be this year, but he has far exceeded my expectations this season, i for one thought he would not be anywhere near the hunt for the WDC in his debut season and would still be hailed a success. he is becoming the victim of his own success already as expectations have raised astronomically.

on pace alone i think he has every chance to win the WDC, he seems to have a car that quick enough, he's very consistent and has shown good race craft and passing ability.

its true that he did not have a stellar weekend, but it was just one weekend, and at no point was he outclassed.

i'm not saying that he WILL win, nor that he is easily the best out there, that would be churlish, but i think he's got the tools to fight both Ferraris and Alonso for the title and for that reason i think he CAN win.

[andreag]

it was a mistake that a lot of drivers made. Massa nearly came a cropper and then they started coming off one after the other. by that time, the teams were on the radio getting everyone to slow down.
The first driver coming off was Button who passes just behind Massa and Alonso, then the rest.


it was crazy out there with no grip whatsoever. even seasoned drivers with acknowledged prowess in the rain like Button went off and Kimi slid out of the pit lane on hi in lap.
Fernando was on medium wet tyres and passed without problems, as others did it some seconds later. Not every driver came off between Button and Liuzzi.


what really wrecked his race was the puncture on the debris which took him out of 4th. if he had of maintained 4th, there was a good chance he would have made it around that corner as there was less water there when the leaders went around and if that was the case, may well have finished on the podium again with Kimi going out and Massa struggleing with a wet track.
Not really; without the puncture, he had to stop to change tyres after Alonso. From the moment Fernando left the pit till Lewis stop there, mechanics waited only five seconds. And this time wouldn't make any difference.

Look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcMqdIPzf9A

- 2,22: Fernando leves the pit.
- 2,27: Lewis pits.
- 4,33: Felipe takes turn 1 on next lap under heavy rain.
- 4,34: Fernando does the same.
- 4,35: Jenson tries it.
- 4,40: Kimi finally leaves the pit (one lap later) with medium wet tyres).
- 4,48: First image of Button on the gravel.
- 4,58: Lewis car appears on the gravel trap.
- 4,59: Sutil comes out.
- 5,18: Rosberg's out.
- 5,22: Speed in the gravel trap.
- 5,29: Davidson nearly joining them.
- 5,47: SC sign appears on the screen (1 minute and 12 seconds after Button's gravel trip).
- 6,01: Safety car on the track.
- 6,06: SC runs to avoid Liuzzi's impact, while Davidson has just restarted without any help.
- 6,11: Liuzzi's car hits the crane about to save Lewis' car.
- 6,59: After watching (and hearing) how slow is Heidfeld on wet, the crane leaves Lewis car on the track.
- 7,04: Winkelhock passes by leading the race.
- 7,07: Lewis restarts as Beatles suggested (with a little help from [i]some[/b] friends).
- 7,17: Winkelhock reaches the SC and try to heat his full wet tyres on the water!
- 7,30: Lewis reaches Winkelhock.
- 8,12: Massa slows down, and the rest of the cars too (as if he were the leader).

Not in the video, but I remember it well:

- 9,10: Massa nearly suffers a heart attack as he sees a McLaren in front of him, behind the SC. Being told some seconds before Lewis was out, it only could be Fernando.

After Button, Hamilton and Sutil came off, Webber, Coulthard, Kovalainen, Raikkönen, Wurz and Barrichello passed without problem. Then Rosberg and Speed went out, but Ralf, Sato, Trulli and Kubica stayed on track, and Davidson continues after half a spin. Liuzzi out, and Heidfeld slowly in.

So, there were many drivers stayng on tha track, some before Hamilton, and some after him, so those 5 seconds meant nothing.

[Firstgear]

It was the same for everyone not just for Hamilton!

It's the same for everyone until you have to move off of the dry line to pass a car. This is why you can't compare Hamilton moving thru the field in this race to Massa in a dry race.

[ioan]

It's the same for everyone until you have to move off of the dry line to pass a car. This is why you can't compare Hamilton moving thru the field in this race to Massa in a dry race.

The race was mostly dry, so dry that Lewis was the first who went for dry tires. ;)

[ShiftingGears]

still some are expecting him to win the championship. :rolleyes:

Yeah! Its not like he's leading the championship or anything...

Do you believe all of the trash you talk?

[Flat.tyres]

Yeah! Its not like he's leading the championship or anything...

Do you believe all of the trash you talk?

nobody else does. I think it's some sort of dillusion :laugh:

[odykas]

http://i15.tinypic.com/6800qhk.jpg

[donKey jote]

:laugh: :up:

[andreag]

By the way, all of us could see how after Lewis stoped to change to dry tyres (after the restart), he seemed to have a short gravel excursion, after what he was lapped by Felipe and Fernando, and some more drivers.

It's here (it's only 1,53):

http://stage6.divx.com/F1-Erco/video/1453857/F1-2007-Nurburgring

But after coming back to the track, he spun just in front of both drivers, being so close to put any of them (specially Felipe) out of the race.

I remember what some members of the Forum said about Fernando in Spain and Canada, and I just want to show what happened this sunday:

http://stage6.divx.com/F1-Erco/video/1453728/F1-2007-Hamilton-Spins

It would be ironic if he had crashed Massa; in that case he would be lifted by the crane from a safe gravel trap to a much more dangerous position (on the track crashing to another driver).