Getting your Rocks off

[Roamy]

Man is this nation whack or what.

Iran 'adulterer' stoned to death

The woman reportedly remains in prison with her children
The Iranian judiciary says a man has been stoned to death for adultery - the first time it has confirmed such an execution in five years.
Jafar Kiani was executed last week in a village in north-west Qazvin province.

Amnesty International said Mr Kiani and Mokarrameh Ebrahimi, 43, were convicted of adultery more than a decade ago.

The human rights group has appealed for Ms Ebrahimi to be spared. Adultery is a capital offence, punishable by stoning, under Iran's Islamic law.

In 2002, the judiciary suspended the practice.


To execute a woman for adultery in this cruel way simply beggars belief
Kate Allen
Amnesty International
But Mr Kiani was reportedly executed on 5 July in Aghche Kand.

Mr Kiani and Ms Ebrahimi were said to have been married to others at the time of their arrest.

Buried to waist

They were sent to Choubin prison, Qazvin, where Ms Ebrahimi is thought to remain with her two children.

Amnesty International UK director Kate Allen said: "To execute anyone by stoning is barbaric and disgraceful. To execute a woman for adultery in this cruel way simply beggars belief.

"Iran should abolish the sentence of stoning once and for all."

Under the punishment of stoning, a male convict is buried up to his waist with his hands tied behind his back, while a female offender is buried up to her neck with her hands also buried.

The stoning brings to at least 110 the number of executions carried out in the Islamic republic so far this year, most of them by hanging and often in public.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Lets see....Eki will come on here any time now and tell us instead how the US is abusing people at Gitmo any time now...just to show how bad the US is and how Iran isn't so bad......

Where are you Eki? comment on this??

[Mark in Oshawa]

Fousto, you just know Iran is a primitive backward regime with a desire to have a nuclear weapon. Eki told me though they can be trusted, and I believe him.....NOT....

[A.F.F.]

Eki can also confirm how adultery is handled here in civilized Finland. Usually adulterer gets his/her punishment within the family in household with knife or axe + lots and lots more of Koskenkorva.

[Tomi]

Very sad there is still in 2007 primitive countries that uses death as punishment.

[Mark in Oshawa]

In most civilized nations, it is usually both spouses yell, both throw things for a bit and then they call their lawyers. If kids are involved, it isn't something to make light of, but in the case of Iran, I cant fathom the mentality of a regime that would sanction stoning as a valid method of capital punishment, much less have it for adultery....

[Ian McC]

Seems to me far too many people can't tell the difference between 'Gods work' and 'the work of the devil'

[SOD]

well fousto , which country arrests people because they dont water their front garden?


Which contry is preparing to go to nuclear war with iran?

Nice to see the 82nd chairborne in place.

[Ian McC]

Which contry is preparing to go to nuclear war with iran?



Link please! :p :

[SOD]

3rd aircraft carrier is in place today.

[Mark in Oshawa]

SOD....you know you really need to get a grip. Bush may not need to get elected but every other Republican in public office in the USA does, and they KNOW escalating the "war on Terror" to Iran would get them tossed. IN the US, there is always an election cycle, and it would be utter suicide to try something like invading Iran when most Americans want this crap to stop. Only paranoid people who hate the US to start with would think a war with Iran is possible.

of course, don't let seeing the big picture have anything to do with this.....

[SOD]

SOD....you know you really need to get a grip. Bush may not need to get elected but every other Republican in public office in the USA does, and they KNOW escalating the "war on Terror" to Iran would get them tossed. IN the US, there is always an election cycle, and it would be utter suicide to try something like invading Iran when most Americans want this crap to stop. Only paranoid people who hate the US to start with would think a war with Iran is possible.

of course, don't let seeing the big picture have anything to do with this.....

someone didn't listen to what Joe Liberman said last week. then again Loserman has another 5.5 years left in the Senate.

[Ian McC]

well fousto , which country arrests people because they dont water their front garden?


Which contry is preparing to go to nuclear war with iran?

Nice to see the 82nd chairborne in place.

I really don't see what this has got to do with the subject :rolleyes:

[Mark in Oshawa]

someone didn't listen to what Joe Liberman said last week. then again Loserman has another 5.5 years left in the Senate.

Lieberman is a independent, and will remain so. He can say anything or nothing it and it doesn't change US policy. Again, you no grounding of what is going on in the US right now obviously. The Yanks will need to be SERIOUSLY provoked to go after Iran, because the public and most Republican politicians wouldn't support it, and would impeach Bush before things got going. Bush isn't that stupid...but I know it helps your fantasies to believe he is...

Now the topic at hand was the stoning of some poor schmuck for adultery....and that just says volumes about what kind of regime that is running the fine nation of Iran....who you should be spending your days and years hating rather than the sometimes misguided Americans or your own nation, who you must just LOATHE.....

[SOD]

Lieberman is a independent, and will remain so. He can say anything or nothing it and it doesn't change US policy. Again, you no grounding of what is going on in the US right now obviously. The Yanks will need to be SERIOUSLY provoked to go after Iran, because the public and most Republican politicians wouldn't support it, and would impeach Bush before things got going. Bush isn't that stupid...but I know it helps your fantasies to believe he is...

Now the topic at hand was the stoning of some poor schmuck for adultery....and that just says volumes about what kind of regime that is running the fine nation of Iran....who you should be spending your days and years hating rather than the sometimes misguided Americans or your own nation, who you must just LOATHE.....

When I personally know Iranians & Americans , its kinda hard to hate on them ;)

[Malbec]

Both Iran and the beloved United States of America are happy to execute people for crimes commited when children.

Are they really so different?

At least the Iranians will give leniency for crimes commited for those who are mentally subnormal. Shame the United States won't eh?

[Garry Walker]

Very sad there is still in 2007 primitive countries that uses death as punishment.

Death Penalty in itself is a very right thing to do in case of some crimes, but adultery isnt one of them.


Both Iran and the beloved United States of America are happy to execute people for crimes commited when children.
care to bring examples in the case of USA??


Are they really so different?
This is a question only someone with no understanding of the world, would ask.



At least the Iranians will give leniency for crimes commited for those who are mentally subnormal. Shame the United States won't eh? What the hell are you on about?

[Malbec]

care to bring examples in the case of USA??


This is a question only someone with no understanding of the world, would ask.

What the hell are you on about?

I suspect you didn't fully understand my points.

The primary question with the death penalty is as to whether it is acceptable AT ALL as a form of punishment. How it is carried out and what it is carried out for are secondary to this point.

I thought it was well known that the US continues to execute individuals for crimes carried out while under 18, in US parlance whilst juveniles, although by the time they are sentenced they are over 18. In this respect they are no different to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Nigeria. I don't think thats company the US would be proud to keep, do you?

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1995/Us.htm
http://www.anairhoads.org/politics/juvenilepenalty.shtml

As for executing those who are mentally subnormal or ill at the time of committing the crime, again the list is long.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR510032006
http://www.amnestyusa.org/The_Execution_of_Mentally_Ill_Offenders/Mental_Illness__100_Executions/page.do?id=1101132&n1=3&n2=28&n3=105

The death penalty is wrong, and its irrelevant whether the country carrying them out is Iran or the USA. It is doubly wrong to execute those who are not able to comprehend the consequences of their actions, ie minors and those who are mentally ill.

I hope that clarifies things for you.

[Quattroporte]

I don't see what the problem is actaully. Adultery has to be one of the lowest forms of conduct on earth today. For it to be adultery it means one of or both parties were married. For the innocent mates of these parties the torture and pain and grief can be alot worse than death.

While I don't neccesarily condone the barbaric slaying of people by the government, I really think that death by stoning is till too good for these people. I can think of alot more suitable methods to deal with them than hiffing a couple of rocks at their head.

It's one of the biggest screw ups in Western society today, the allowing (and to a point even CONDONING) of adultery has brought nothing but trouble. Perhaps in this case we could learn a little from the Iranians. :mad:

[Mark in Oshawa]

I don't see what the problem is actaully. Adultery has to be one of the lowest forms of conduct on earth today. For it to be adultery it means one of or both parties were married. For the innocent mates of these parties the torture and pain and grief can be alot worse than death.

While I don't neccesarily condone the barbaric slaying of people by the government, I really think that death by stoning is till too good for these people. I can think of alot more suitable methods to deal with them than hiffing a couple of rocks at their head.

It's one of the biggest screw ups in Western society today, the allowing (and to a point even CONDONING) of adultery has brought nothing but trouble. Perhaps in this case we could learn a little from the Iranians. :mad:

I don't condone it either, but he is without sin can cast the first stone...oh wait a minute, no one is without sin. Right....well I guess you can approve of stoning for this, I guess we just need to establish how much you dislike anyone committing ANY sin. Adultry is a joke, I don't condone it in any form, but we have a remedy for that, it is called DIVORCE. It is called SPOUSAL support. Believe me, there is ways of being civilized.

AS for you Dylan, well, while I don't like Capital Punishment, there is a HUGE difference in the legal systems of Iran and the US, and there is a HUGE amount of compassion for killing someone with lethal injection as opposed to burying them up to their chests and stoning them to death. Only Murder is a death penalty offense in the US. Last time I looked Adultry wasn't death by stoning anywhere outside of the Islamic world, so drop the moral equivalence crap. It is possible to be against the death penatly but at least understand that there are levels of legal procedure and outlets for compassion in the US system. The fact that Iran stones people should be 10 times more offensive to you unless, you seem to be one of those trendy fellows with a Hate on for the United States.

[oily oaf]

well fousto , which country arrests people because they dont water their front garden?


Which contry is preparing to go to nuclear war with iran?

Nice to see the 82nd chairborne in place.

I was arrested for watering my neighbour's front garden :(
Mind you I did undertake the task using my urinary tract after a particularly savage night on the grog down at The Mark In Oshawa Arms where along with a few select friends I'd been celebrating the announcement of the forthcoming marriage of Eki to a right wing extremist moose from Greenland.
Fortunately the judge was a compassionate man and let me off with a 3 day suspended sentence which I served hanging by my nipples in his shed.
Which was nice.

Adulterers? Burn them...................face up....................in someone elses bed :mad:

[Dave B]

Very sad there is still in 2007 primitive countries that uses death as punishment.
Only in some states.

[Tomi]

Only in some states.

Yes, but progress is going on atleast in Africa, it was in the news the other day that Rwanda is going to skip the deat penalty.

[Malbec]

AS for you Dylan, well, while I don't like Capital Punishment, there is a HUGE difference in the legal systems of Iran and the US, and there is a HUGE amount of compassion for killing someone with lethal injection as opposed to burying them up to their chests and stoning them to death. Only Murder is a death penalty offense in the US. Last time I looked Adultry wasn't death by stoning anywhere outside of the Islamic world, so drop the moral equivalence crap. It is possible to be against the death penatly but at least understand that there are levels of legal procedure and outlets for compassion in the US system. The fact that Iran stones people should be 10 times more offensive to you unless, you seem to be one of those trendy fellows with a Hate on for the United States.

Your last sentence really does your whole argument down, but it seems you like stereotyping so.....

There are several levels of legal procedure and outlets for compassion in the Iranian system too. Whilst the Iranians stone for adultery they hardly stone any and everyone caught with their pants down, otherwise I suspect the execution rate there like anywhere else would be skyhigh. Comparing the death penalty in the US and Iran is not a simple black and white issue.

Meanwhile you skipped my points about executing minors and those who are mentally ill or subnormal. Any system that feels it acceptable to kill those who are unable to fully understand the consequences of their actions when they commit a crime is beneath contempt, and no I don't give a damn whether countries that do so are called 'Iran' or 'the United States of America'.

[Garry Walker]

I suspect you didn't fully understand my points. I suspect I did, I just have no respect for them.



The primary question with the death penalty is as to whether it is acceptable AT ALL as a form of punishment. It is, and it is the most justified penalty in some cases.



I thought it was well known that the US continues to execute individuals for crimes carried out while under 18, in US parlance whilst juveniles, although by the time they are sentenced they are over 18. In this respect they are no different to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Nigeria. I don't think thats company the US would be proud to keep, do you?

I dont have the time to read the whole text of the links you gave me, but apparently they limit there appears to be 16. That is, in my view, old enough age. If you are a scumbag and a serious offender at 16, there is no hope for you in future. So executing people like that is only cleansing the society.



As for executing those who are mentally subnormal or ill at the time of committing the crime, again the list is long.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR510032006
http://www.amnestyusa.org/The_Execution_of_Mentally_Ill_Offenders/Mental_Illness__100_Executions/page.do?id=1101132&n1=3&n2=28&n3=105

It is funny that you quote amnesty international - those people are so out of touch with reality as is only possible. I have read some bits of their reports on some issues, which I happen to know a lot about, and seen how far from reality they are.
As for executing the mentally retarded, I reckon most of the time that is an excuse the criminals are trying to use to get out of doing time or getting executed. Obviously, some people eat up and believe everything that criminals say.



The death penalty is wrong, so how do you recommend we punish serious offenders?



and its irrelevant whether the country carrying them out is Iran or the USA. It is doubly wrong to execute those who are not able to comprehend the consequences of their actions, ie minors and those who are mentally ill.

So you are saying that when a 16 year old steals a gun and shoots someone point blank to death, he is unable to comprehend the consequences? :rotflmao:



I hope that clarifies things for you.I now have a clear viewpoint of you indeed.

[Spoonbender]

I was arrested for watering my neighbour's front garden :(
Mind you I did undertake the task using my urinary tract after a particularly savage night on the grog down at The Mark In Oshawa Arms where along with a few select friends I'd been celebrating the announcement of the forthcoming marriage of Eki to a right wing extremist moose from Greenland.
Fortunately the judge was a compassionate man and let me off with a 3 day suspended sentence which I served hanging by my nipples in his shed.
Which was nice.

Adulterers? Burn them...................face up....................in someone elses bed :mad:

Was any of this captured on CCTV ?? if so, link please :)

[Drew]

If we only ever heard the bad things about Monaco we'd all think it was a horrible place.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Dylan, I understand what you meant by you think about killing the mentally deficient and those younger than 16, but in Iran they STONE someone to death from straying from the marital bed. I think there is a bit of a stretch, but you obviously think it is all wrong, all the time.

That is fine, but I think you are just using it as moral relativism comparing the US to the Iran and you put the US down as the same barbaric nation. Actually, I think you do abhor the US more, since you had little comment about someone being stoned to death, which is for less humane way to kill someone ( I am against capital punishment so I realize that the whole concept is technically inhumane ). That said, not every mentally challenged criminal in the US is put to death, nor is every 16 year old murderer.

In Iran they kill people for adultry, they arrest people for holding hands in public and they use methods such as stoning as legitmate forms of punishment. To compare a nation where there is a rule of law and an appeals process, not to mention a system of checks and balances, and an open democratic process to a religious theocracy demeans your arguments and makes you sound like just another left-wing reactionary who blames the US for a multitude of sins. Now you may not be this person, you may be a fine fellow, and I don't disagree that you are concerned for the rights of human beings,.but you sound like just another Anti American on here such as Eki or Tomi.

I have a lot of time for Amnesity International's work, but I wish people would quit putting the US down with some of the worst regimes in the world for aspects of their culture. The whole story is that in Iran, almost any indiscretion is met with irrational force, whereas in the US, for the most part, you have to do something extremely radical to end up on Death Row, mentally challenged or not. There is a huge difference in the legal systems that make the convicitions too, and you gloss over THAT.

To me, THAT is what is really offensive......

[Mark in Oshawa]

I was arrested for watering my neighbour's front garden :(
Mind you I did undertake the task using my urinary tract after a particularly savage night on the grog down at The Mark In Oshawa Arms where along with a few select friends I'd been celebrating the announcement of the forthcoming marriage of Eki to a right wing extremist moose from Greenland.
Fortunately the judge was a compassionate man and let me off with a 3 day suspended sentence which I served hanging by my nipples in his shed.
Which was nice.

Adulterers? Burn them...................face up....................in someone elses bed :mad:

umm Oaf, I do wish you would quit peeing on mum's rose bushes, the damn things are turning yellow, and she wont win first prize at the fair this year. Guinness and urine is not a fertilizer!

[schmenke]

Fry 'em all I say :hmph:

I'm tired of my tax-dollars contributing to keeping hard offenders alive in prison.

[Malbec]

That is fine, but I think you are just using it as moral relativism comparing the US to the Iran and you put the US down as the same barbaric nation. Actually, I think you do abhor the US more, since you had little comment about someone being stoned to death, which is for less humane way to kill someone ( I am against capital punishment so I realize that the whole concept is technically inhumane ). That said, not every mentally challenged criminal in the US is put to death, nor is every 16 year old murderer.

In Iran they kill people for adultry, they arrest people for holding hands in public and they use methods such as stoning as legitmate forms of punishment. To compare a nation where there is a rule of law and an appeals process, not to mention a system of checks and balances, and an open democratic process to a religious theocracy demeans your arguments and makes you sound like just another left-wing reactionary who blames the US for a multitude of sins. Now you may not be this person, you may be a fine fellow, and I don't disagree that you are concerned for the rights of human beings,.but you sound like just another Anti American on here such as Eki or Tomi.

Mark, my comments were directed initially more at the US side because of the nature of this thread, one intended to mock the Iranians for stoning coming from a poster from a country that also executes and doesn't have the cleanest record in doing so either.

You're quite right, my problem is with the death penalty full stop regardless of whoever practices it and I believe I've made that clear all along.

I understand your point about the relative humanity of stoning vs lethal injection but really that is a moot point, people shouldn't be executed in the first place. I also understand the points you're trying to make re: the US judicial system vs the Iranian one but the difference isn't black and white. The majority of people executed in Iran are hung for crimes that would get them the death penalty in quite a few other countries such as murder, multiple rapes, that kind of thing. Executions for adultery are rare, rare enough for it to be picked up by the international press and by the starter of this thread. Now while Iranian social values are certainly more conservative than US ones, there are more Iranians involved in adultery and found out than are executed. Does that not point to 'leniency within the system' as you would put it? Also, if the US system has so many checks and balances in the system, why are so many minors and mentally subnormal prisoners executed (assuming you don't buy into the whole "they're only pretending to be mentally unwell" attitude of one of the above posters.

Sadly in Iran, people are executed for 'offences' such as adultery not so much because it is a crime but because it is politically expedient to do so to send a message to the rest of society that the Conservatives there are serious... about something. Right now there's a clampdown in Iran on anything that can be labelled as reformist or radical and part of that involves 'show executions' to indicate the regime's determination to stamp out any form of opposition, particularly important at the moment as they have taken the important unpopular decision to introduce petrol rationing and may have to increase interest rates too.

Having political interests influence executions isn't alien to the US either. The final decision to actually execute a prisoner is in the hands of the governor of the state and is thus dependent on their political beliefs and sadly whether they want to be seen to be left or right friendly. Some prisoners are fortunate enough to be the subject of intense political lobbying to get them off death row. How is that fair on the others who are left behind?

This is not a defence of Iranian and an attack on US death penalties. Both are abhorrent, both are part of imperfect systems and both are influenced by politics. The sooner the death penalty is banned in both countries the better.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Dylan, I am glad you clarified yourself. IF you had done that from the word go, I would have seen your arguments in a much better light than I did. That said, the amount of Americans that are executed compared to the population is very low. It takes an exceptional case to get death row. No system is perfect, and god knows the Yanks can have some pretty good screwups in court, but over time, with all the checks, balances, and appeals in the system, and the number of very motivated and good lawyers fighting on behalf of the accused, I don't think for a second that too many people are wrongfully executed. You find me a guy on death row who DOESN'T think he got a raw deal.

My uncle worked in the Canadian Federal prison system as an instructor in the shops. Canadian prisons are some of the most libreal and benign in the western world. His view was that contrary to what many people believed, if you got in to prison, you likely had it coming. He said not one of the guys he dealt with ever really wanted to admit that maybe they deserved to be there until they had been there a long time. Criminals have a great amount of con in them, and they have a great amount of self delusion. Death Row inmates are no different. To get on death row in the US is not easy. You have to really be guilty, or rarely innocent, but in the wrong place at the wrong time, and with an average of 11 years of appeals, I suspect there is no aspect of most cases that are left unturned. Maybe in a few years, the system will just keep them in prison, or the justice system will be perfected ( fat chance )but I do think to say they deserve any real comparsion to Iran is still a stretch.

About the only thing they have in common is they have a death penalty for Murder. After that....there is a GREAT GULF......