Armchair F1 Professors please advise

[Valve Bounce]

Before you get on your pulpits and start criticising drivers like Alonso, (this last race) and Kimi, (previous races) , may I ask whether you could tell us:
1. Who makes the decision on pit stop strategies - drivers or team managers.
2. Who decides when to push - the drivers or the team manager in the pits,
3. Who tells the drivers to try to overtake

I've just about had enough of the nonsense about Fernando Alonso being criticised for trying his heart out to overcome his poor qualifying position, and by all these Armchair F1 Professors who seem to be privy to team instructions and team strategies.

Maybe these guys can come and share their profound F1 intelligence with the rest of us here in the forum.

[Roamy]

Valve,
I assume it depends on the team you are with. No team wants their two cars wadded up so I would imagine it depends on if one car is quite faster than the other and they are not already in 1st place.

Norm as I understand - the fastest qual get pit choice depending on fuel- equal fuel though. The trick is to last longer on the track than you teammate so you have a light car to try and make time.

However in the case of MS he got first pick on everything and sometimes if you have a no 1 driver that will be the case.

A team may call for hold position if there is no way to win without considerable risk. However a back car will be told to go a freaking fast as you can. Points really start coming in to big play around 5th position, however my understanding is the more points the more travel money from F1.

Then you can have situations like prost and senna - no prisoners.

Zonta had to eat JV's left over lunch.

So Alonso was free to drive as far back as he was, and it sounds like he did just that.

I had the luxury of running a one car team and our motto was either win or don't come back with the car running..

Case in point jv and massa at monaco. Sauber was too slow to move Massa over so probably to the detriment of his job Jv did it for him. Contrary Jv and hill at aussie. Frank moved JV over citing a oil leak like the ****ing engine knew the difference between 16 and 18 K. I would have run Jv flat out to the end.

So your answer is there are not set rules - However McLaren is quite cautious.

[mstillhere]

Before you get on your pulpits and start criticising drivers like Alonso, (this last race) and Kimi, (previous races) , may I ask whether you could tell us:
1. Who makes the decision on pit stop strategies - drivers or team managers.
2. Who decides when to push - the drivers or the team manager in the pits,
3. Who tells the drivers to try to overtake

I've just about had enough of the nonsense about Fernando Alonso being criticised for trying his heart out to overcome his poor qualifying position, and by all these Armchair F1 Professors who seem to be privy to team instructions and team strategies.

Maybe these guys can come and share their profound F1 intelligence with the rest of us here in the forum.


1. Who makes the decision on pit stop strategies - drivers or team managers.
1. Team managers
2. Who decides when to push - the drivers or the team manager in the pits,
2.Team manager in the pits
3. Who tells the drivers to try to overtake
3. Team manager in the pits

I see where you are coming from with your post. I don't know you but I always liked the underdog. That's why I kind of agree with you in terms of Alonso's last performance in France. HOWEVER, that does not make me forget what a whining little baby he has been, and how immature, arrogant he is. If something does not go his way, it's always somebody else fault and he is just the victim of this universal plot against him. Look at Kimi, and Shumi I might add. They have had their share of problems, set backs and both at McLaren and at Ferrari, and I actually can't recall an instance (but it's also true that my memory does not serve me as well as it used to :) in which anybody had being blamed for what had happened to them. Actually, these kind of situations make Alonso work harder for his victories and show a more humane aspect of his personality that I am and maybe other people might like to see.

[blakebeatty]

Valve, you are far too sensitive. We cannot limit our sole discussion on the beauty of rainbows, or the innocence of puppies. This is a discussion board, where people all over the world meet to offer up their emotions on whatever subject is presented. If I think that Fernando drove a poor race, then that is my opinion. If I want to list the things I hate about F1 (as per earlier thread) then that is my perogative. God forbid each and everyone one of us answered a thread "fernando rocked magny cours" "yes" "brilliant" "none better" "etc". This is the nature of a discussion board. If you want vanilla opinion, then discuss the race with your tape recorder

[Hawkmoon]

I think as fans we have every right to criticise the drivers and teams we love to watch. Without our money they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

Half the fun of being a fan is arguing till you are blue in the face even though, deep down, you know you are wrong.

So by all means, criticise Alonso and Raikkonen even though you don't have all the facts. Argue the merits of a passing move. Question team orders. Afterall, isn't that what makes being a fan, and participating in a fan forum, all the more fun and enjoyable? :)

[ioan]

I think as fans we have every right to criticise the drivers and teams we love to watch. Without our money they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

Half the fun of being a fan is arguing till you are blue in the face even though, deep down, you know you are wrong.

So by all means, criticise Alonso and Raikkonen even though you don't have all the facts. Argue the merits of a passing move. Question team orders. Afterall, isn't that what makes being a fan, and participating in a fan forum, all the more fun and enjoyable? :)

:up: :D

[Flat.tyres]

I think as fans we have every right to criticise the drivers and teams we love to watch. Without our money they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

Half the fun of being a fan is arguing till you are blue in the face even though, deep down, you know you are wrong.


but isn't that just ignoring facts, being singleminded and unobjective?

if your a ferrari fan and just want a ferrari fest, then go to a tifosi site where everyone is in tune with your way of thinking.

If you want reasoned debate to share information, opinions and would like to further your knowledge of F1, then an open discussion board like this one would be beneficial.

problem is that it gets frustrating when the former and the latter meet up as some people demonstrate.

[Valve Bounce]

I just thought I'd post this thread because I felt that certain guys here were unreasonably attacking Alonso for trying his heart to race. Not to mention that the pit strategy is no fault of his.

But, I did feel that while we all like to criticise with all our might, sometimes certain aspects of F1 organisation seem to be ignored.


Then there are the guys who like to rubbish Kimi for no fault of his own, yet remain silent when he drives a superb race to win.

Is that really a fair way to downtrod drivers that you don't admire?

[Big Ben]

Before you get on your pulpits and start criticising drivers like Alonso, (this last race) and Kimi, (previous races) , may I ask whether you could tell us:
1. Who makes the decision on pit stop strategies - drivers or team managers.
2. Who decides when to push - the drivers or the team manager in the pits,
3. Who tells the drivers to try to overtake

I've just about had enough of the nonsense about Fernando Alonso being criticised for trying his heart out to overcome his poor qualifying position, and by all these Armchair F1 Professors who seem to be privy to team instructions and team strategies.

Maybe these guys can come and share their profound F1 intelligence with the rest of us here in the forum.

1. 1.1 if it's a bad strategy and a. you hate the team it's the team... b. if you hate just the driver it's him... c. if you hate both of them you can choose. 1.2 if it's a good strategy and a. you hate the driver it's the team b. if you hate only the team it's the driver c. if you hate both of them they were just lucky MS retired last year.
2. idem
3. ibidem

[RaikkonenRules]

I think as fans we have every right to criticise the drivers and teams we love to watch. Without our money they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

Half the fun of being a fan is arguing till you are blue in the face even though, deep down, you know you are wrong.

So by all means, criticise Alonso and Raikkonen even though you don't have all the facts. Argue the merits of a passing move. Question team orders. Afterall, isn't that what makes being a fan, and participating in a fan forum, all the more fun and enjoyable? :)

Excellent points Hawkmoon :up: If people don't like their favourite drivers being critisised then they should stay away from the forums.

[Flat.tyres]

valve bounce and eu have summed it up perfectly :D

[Big Ben]

Excellent points Hawkmoon :up: If people don't like their favourite drivers being critisised then they should stay away from the forums.

wrong! if you can't help yourself criticizing a driver all the time just because you hate him then it's you who should stay away from the forums.

[555-04Q2]

Before you get on your pulpits and start criticising drivers like Alonso, (this last race) and Kimi, (previous races) , may I ask whether you could tell us:
1. Who makes the decision on pit stop strategies - drivers or team managers.
2. Who decides when to push - the drivers or the team manager in the pits,
3. Who tells the drivers to try to overtake

I've just about had enough of the nonsense about Fernando Alonso being criticised for trying his heart out to overcome his poor qualifying position, and by all these Armchair F1 Professors who seem to be privy to team instructions and team strategies.

Maybe these guys can come and share their profound F1 intelligence with the rest of us here in the forum.

Whats up Valve, the missus not giving you led over or something ;)

[ioan]

Excellent points Hawkmoon :up: If people don't like their favourite drivers being critisised then they should stay away from the forums.

Exactly. We do not come here to read the posts, agree and than live happily till next race. We come here to discuss what happens in F1.

[Valve Bounce]

Whats up Valve, the missus not giving you led over or something ;)


I don't mind fair criticism, and if a guy doesn't like a certain driver and makes it known, and hammers him, that's understandable.

But heck!! Man!! Alonso drove his heart out and he is copping shyte from some guys here?

Just read the points I made, and you will get some insight into wha I am saying.

[jas123f1]

Before you get on your pulpits and start criticising drivers like Alonso, (this last race) and Kimi, (previous races) , may I ask whether you could tell us:
1. Who makes the decision on pit stop strategies - drivers or team managers.
2. Who decides when to push - the drivers or the team manager in the pits,
3. Who tells the drivers to try to overtake

I've just about had enough of the nonsense about Fernando Alonso being criticised for trying his heart out to overcome his poor qualifying position, and by all these Armchair F1 Professors who seem to be privy to team instructions and team strategies.

Maybe these guys can come and share their profound F1 intelligence with the rest of us here in the forum.

I think it depends which team we are talking about – however depending to that there are so many things you must take under consideration before any decision the normal way is that "whole team" discuss the strategies - but it's always the team manager who has his last word of cause. :)

[ioan]

But heck!! Man!! Alonso drove his heart out and he is copping shyte from some guys here?


It was not enough Valve, clearly he did not get what the car was able to deliver.

As for your questions, unless the drivers in question is a rookie, all the decisions are taken together with his race team (engineers, strategists etc..), not by the team managers.

[Flat.tyres]

I don't mind fair criticism, and if a guy doesn't like a certain driver and makes it known, and hammers him, that's understandable.

But heck!! Man!! Alonso drove his heart out and he is copping shyte from some guys here?

Just read the points I made, and you will get some insight into wha I am saying.

as Hawkmoon says, some people just like their fave driver and to bash everyone else. pretty sad and immature but your always going to get pricks in an open forum.

anyone that couldnt see Alonso was driving his guts out doesn't appreciate the sport in my opinion.

All the drivers out there work hard. Even Ralf ;) but some neve give up like Alonso.

its also a game out there. If Button comes up behind you then people will know thay hold their line and will probably be fine. if freddie comes behind you then you crap yourself because he could come at you from any angle.

In which circumstance is the lead driver more likely to make a mistake I wonder ;)

[Valve Bounce]

It was not enough Valve, clearly he did not get what the car was able to deliver.

As for your questions, unless the drivers in question is a rookie, all the decisions are taken together with his race team (engineers, strategists etc..), not by the team managers.


Really?? :confused: So the rookies make their own decision on pit stop strategy, when to push, what tyres to put on, and when to come in for fuel?

Maybe we can ask Schnell and see what he thinks. :p :

[ioan]

Really?? :confused: So the rookies make their own decision on pit stop strategy, when to push, what tyres to put on, and when to come in for fuel?

Maybe we can ask Schnell and see what he thinks. :p :

No, no no, the team decides for them. Man you are quick when drawing the wrong conclusions! ;)

BTW where's Schnell? Didn't see him posting for some time.

[ioan]

if freddie comes behind you then you crap yourself because he could come at you from any angle.

Given his dangerous bonehead moves this year, I think you might be right on it with this one.

[Flat.tyres]

Given his dangerous bonehead moves this year, I think you might be right on it with this one.

its the mark of an agressive racer. Schumacher was the same and it intimidated drivers as was Mansell and Senna.

Lewis was the same in GP2 and lower formula but in F1, he has been remarkably carefull and balanced when dealing with back markers this year to such an extent that he gave Alonso a sniff at a place the other week.

bet when he needs to really attack, you will see the same aggression.

[CarlMetro]

Is that really a fair way to downtrod drivers that you don't admire?

Was it fair when we have had the same thing regarding Michael Schumacher ever since I joined this place?

There will always be those who will bash a driver/team just for the sake of bashing, the best thing to do is simply ignore what they post, if you don't then you just wind yourself up and they have acheived what they set out to do, which is to get a reaction.

Now, I'm not in the Alonso fan club, he's far too whingy for my taste, but I thought he did good on Sunday, especially the move he made on Heidfeld around the outside.

As for your questions? I would give the same answer to all three, in that both team manager and driver will discuss stratergies/tyre choice etc. Both team manager and driver will decide when to push but only the driver will know whether there is anything more he can do with the car and again both team manager and driver will decide on overtaking and if it is at all possible.

So it's always a joint decision between both team manager and driver.

[Flat.tyres]

As for your questions? I would give the same answer to all three, in that both team manager and driver will discuss stratergies/tyre choice etc. Both team manager and driver will decide when to push but only the driver will know whether there is anything more he can do with the car and again both team manager and driver will decide on overtaking and if it is at all possible.

So it's always a joint decision between both team manager and driver.

not quite correct.

the team will sit down with the drivers and discuss the different scenarios, what can be done different and come to a concensus but ultimatly, the drivers are looking to the teams to work out the strategy and advise them of what they need to do and when they need to do it. in the same way, when circumstances change during a race as they invaribly do, the team will communicate that change to the drivers.

the team usually know better than the drivers where they can push harder or make up time. in practice and qualifying, they will adjust corner entry and exit angles and speeds to finely hone the last 100th out of the lap. During the race, they will fluctuate fuel burn depending on what they need to do and will change a drivers pit time to reflect the competition or back markers.

in reality, once that helmet goes on, the driver is pre-programmed and accepts changes from the pit as the race goes on.

[N. Jones]

Before you get on your pulpits and start criticising drivers like Alonso, (this last race) and Kimi, (previous races) , may I ask whether you could tell us:
1. Who makes the decision on pit stop strategies - drivers or team managers.
2. Who decides when to push - the drivers or the team manager in the pits,
3. Who tells the drivers to try to overtake

I've just about had enough of the nonsense about Fernando Alonso being criticised for trying his heart out to overcome his poor qualifying position, and by all these Armchair F1 Professors who seem to be privy to team instructions and team strategies.

Maybe these guys can come and share their profound F1 intelligence with the rest of us here in the forum.

Sports is all about criticism. If people didn't complain about something then what would they talk about?

[truefan72]

Exactly. We do not come here to read the posts, agree and than live happily till next race. We come here to discuss what happens in F1.


yes

[Valve Bounce]

Sports is all about criticism. If people didn't complain about something then what would they talk about?


Complaining is one thing, unfairly criticising the participants based on nonsensical arguments is something else.

The classical case, of course, is the ex Aussi champion Rugby great David Campese who criticises the Wallabies incessantly with stupid arguments all the time. He is held in such poor esteem that the players themselves voted that David not be allowed to present the jerseys to the players in the recent test in South Africa.

OK, I do admit that I have been guilty of some rather strong criticism of bunsen, maybe unfairly, but his lacklustre performance makes this an interesting subject - I do admit that this is more Honda's fault than bunsen's. So, the next time I do this, I will add the :p : smilie to my criticism.

I think that fair criticism will generate good discussions better than unfair criticisms.

[N. Jones]

True. What compels people to do that I will not speculate.

Button, I must say, seems to be a driver who shines with a good car and cannot do much with anything else...

[markabilly]

MS was far more than the no.1 driver. He had some unique talent for car set up, and while there he acted as the true team principal, because if he said something or someone was not needed at Ferrari, then bye, bye, bye

Biggest problem at ferrari, is that they lost their team principal, chief tester and ultimate leader who lead by example rather than words, when he "retired"

And that is the way it is, if the car ain't set up to be the best and match what the driver can do, then the driver AND TEAM will never win