Button's Back!!

[stevie_gerrard]

Could not see a thread, but had to mention this guys efforts. With what is a car still under construction, Button has done a wonderful job to get this car anywhere near the points. He got a great start, and was consistently fast, even got the car into the 1:16's :D

So as a big Button fan, i say Rejoice, all button fans can come out of hibernation, cause the guy is back in the points!! :D

Forget hamilton, cause Button will be winning the British GP ;) :p :

[Sleeper]

Great to see him with a half decent car again and running so high. The new developments seem to have jumped Honda passed Red Bull, Super Aguri, Williams and Toyota and into Renault/BMW terratory, they just need to qualify better.

You know, if Honda ever designs a good car to start the season with, they will be dangerous as they seem to be able to develop better than most of the other teams, God knows they've now got three years of experience in turning a donkey into a race horse, as it were.

[ClarkFan]

Great to see him with a half decent car again and running so high. The new developments seem to have jumped Honda passed Red Bull, Super Aguri, Williams and Toyota and into Renault/BMW terratory, they just need to qualify better.

You know, if Honda ever designs a good car to start the season with, they will be dangerous as they seem to be able to develop better than most of the other teams, God knows they've now got three years of experience in turning a donkey into a race horse, as it were.

Now, they just need to figure out who keeps designing the damn donkeys! :\

If the car gets better, my guess is that Button will show better. His driving style is really ill suited to flogging a pig around the track. But winning at Silverstone. Ummm, yeah, sure, right......... :rolleyes:

ClarkFan

[Valve Bounce]

Big Deal.
Considering that bunsen's team has over 700 personnel and unlimited financial resources while Super Aguri run second hand Hondas run on a shoestring budget by a team of 140, and this wonder Team Honda has finally scored 1 bloody point. And the guy that Team Honda fired because he was bloody terrible running against the bunsen has managed to score 4 points so far this year.

Big Deal!!

[PSfan]

Big Deal.
Considering that bunsen's team has over 700 personnel and unlimited financial resources while Super Aguri run second hand Hondas run on a shoestring budget by a team of 140, and this wonder Team Honda has finally scored 1 bloody point. And the guy that Team Honda fired because he was bloody terrible running against the bunsen has managed to score 4 points so far this year.

Big Deal!!

Funny I swear I read a post of yours suggesting that Team Honda where having some input into the set-ups on the Super Aguris:


It is also my understanding that some of the settings on the Super Aguri are set by Team Honda

That sure sounds like they have the support of their 140, plus the 700 at Team Honda, and who knows how many at Tochigi (or however its spelled)

And its also Funny how often you refer to the Aguri's as "Second Hand" Honda's. Here I thought Honda's where especially good at their cars retaining their value... Seems to me, that car of Aguri's if its Honda's last years car was a race winner, and here they are with only 4 points... almost shamefull :p :

Even funnier still... Out of the 4 Drivers that raced that car... The Ant is the only who hasn't scored any points in that Chasis!!! Button managed a win in it!!!


Forget hamilton, cause Button will be winning the British GP

As for Button winning the British GP... When is this miracle suppose to happen? :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

Button deserves a lot of credit for his attitude this season. Honda have given him rubbish to race with, and yet he's been racing as hard as ever. For someone who ended the 2006 season so strongly, and got his first GP win, he must have been expecting to challenge for more wins this year, but instead found himself towards the back of the grid. That's tough to deal with.

[Valve Bounce]

Funny I swear I read a post of yours suggesting that Team Honda where having some input into the set-ups on the Super Aguris:



That sure sounds like they have the support of their 140, plus the 700 at Team Honda, and who knows how many at Tochigi (or however its spelled)

And its also Funny how often you refer to the Aguri's as "Second Hand" Honda's. Here I thought Honda's where especially good at their cars retaining their value... Seems to me, that car of Aguri's if its Honda's last years car was a race winner, and here they are with only 4 points... almost shamefull :p :

Even funnier still... Out of the 4 Drivers that raced that car... The Ant is the only who hasn't scored any points in that Chasis!!! Button managed a win in it!!!



As for Button winning the British GP... When is this miracle suppose to happen? :p :


Sorry, it is my stated policy not to respond to your posts. I think you understand this full well.

[CarlMetro]

I think it was relief more than ellation that Honda actually got a point on Sunday. It is just a shame how so many fickle F1 fans have already written off Jenson. I don't think he's ever going to be WDC material but give him a half decent car and he will produce half decent results with it.

I guess the atmosphere will be a little here at this now ;)

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39873

[Flat.tyres]

Sorry, it is my stated policy not to respond to your posts. I think you understand this full well.

i dont know if you 2 have some history but it looked like a valid and reasoned post to me. why not answer it :confused:

the Honda has been a pig all season and it is no reflection on either driver that they haven't scored points in it until France. the telling thing is that once the car looked more stable and competent, JB was able to deliver results again where RB doesn't seem able to?

it always seems to take Honda half a dozen races or so to get their car working after the start of the season but I expect a sharp performance increase now until the end of the season.

[Valve Bounce]

i dont know if you 2 have some history but it looked like a valid and reasoned post to me. why not answer it :confused:

the Honda has been a pig all season and it is no reflection on either driver that they haven't scored points in it until France. the telling thing is that once the car looked more stable and competent, JB was able to deliver results again where RB doesn't seem able to?

it always seems to take Honda half a dozen races or so to get their car working after the start of the season but I expect a sharp performance increase now until the end of the season.

I had made it very clear that I will not respond to this poster, and I have no reason to change my mind.

If you have a reasonable question to ask me, please do so directly to me.

But I think the celebration of poor bunsen getting one point to be a cause celebre is lamentable, not so much on poor bunsen as it is in Team Honda.
Do you really think Team Honda deserves any accolades?

[Flat.tyres]

I had made it very clear that I will not respond to this poster, and I have no reason to change my mind.

If you have a reasonable question to ask me, please do so directly to me.

But I think the celebration of poor bunsen getting one point to be a cause celebre is lamentable, not so much on poor bunsen as it is in Team Honda.
Do you really think Team Honda deserves any accolades?

i think the team are going through a very tough year.

with any engineering project of this nature, its not always about current results funny as that may seem.

My guess, and I stress that it's my guess, is that Honda perceived a performance bar with last years car and realise that to move forward, they needed to fundamentally change aspects of the car. The pain barrier we are seeing is them pulling everything together and starting to realise the speed they believed was possible. Looking at some of the times JB was turning in on a long strategy, I would say theyre moving in the right direction.

The Honda always suffered with race pace. it looked like it had done 10 rounds with mike tyson at the end of a GP. It was quick over 1 lap but couldnt finish a race at pace. I imagine that they have taken that car to grass roots and looked at building something to take forward to being a contender.

if they are finally coming out the other side of that project now and getting the results they need, then I think that deserves a huge pat on the back considering the pressure theyve been under.

The next 6 races will tell us if they have done it.

[leopard]

VB, The ice is melting and win :D

[ioan]

Let's see what Fry has to say:


"When we realised at the beginning of the year the car wasn't what we wanted at all, we have had to change a lot, and in a very short period of time," said Fry.

"We've had to take a few risks by doing things we thought were right, but without that much science behind it.

"Now we're back on more of a level-playing field and hopefully we can move forward from here.

"Because, just as the saying goes that one swallow doesn't make a summer, one point doesn't for us either.

"Obviously, we are still a long, long way off beating a Ferrari or a McLaren, which is clearly where we want to be by the end of the season, and certainly going into next year.

"But people shouldn't expect us to go from one point to the front of the grid immediately. That's totally unfeasible."

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2463980,00.html

Does he really mean that while others are using state of art scientific software, they were using their intuition to try to make a faster car?
I mean it's pretty clear now why they are performing so badly!

[leopard]

Let's see what Fry has to say:
Does he really mean that while others are using state of art scientific software, they were using their intuition to try to make a faster car?
I mean it's pretty clear now why they are performing so badly!

My perception is their improvement at Magny cours wasn't involving too much science, but rather a small touch of intuition on which they were convinced right although it bears some risks and consequence by doing so.

[Valve Bounce]

i think the team are going through a very tough year.

with any engineering project of this nature, its not always about current results funny as that may seem.

My guess, and I stress that it's my guess, is that Honda perceived a performance bar with last years car and realise that to move forward, they needed to fundamentally change aspects of the car. The pain barrier we are seeing is them pulling everything together and starting to realise the speed they believed was possible. Looking at some of the times JB was turning in on a long strategy, I would say theyre moving in the right direction.

The Honda always suffered with race pace. it looked like it had done 10 rounds with mike tyson at the end of a GP. It was quick over 1 lap but couldnt finish a race at pace. I imagine that they have taken that car to grass roots and looked at building something to take forward to being a contender.

if they are finally coming out the other side of that project now and getting the results they need, then I think that deserves a huge pat on the back considering the pressure theyve been under.

The next 6 races will tell us if they have done it.

Let's be honest - their performance, whether over 1 lap or 10 laps or 50 laps was lamentable. If it was quick over 1 lap, they would have qualified ahead of the second hand Hondas throughout the year.
This last race, Taku was zonkered and ant was sent out too late to do a fast lap in Q1. But having said that, up to mangy Course, the Team Honda's qualifying attempts was pathetic.

Perhaps their management needed a shot in the arm? or a swift kick up the bum!! :eek:

[Flat.tyres]

Let's be honest - their performance, whether over 1 lap or 10 laps or 50 laps was lamentable. If it was quick over 1 lap, they would have qualified ahead of the second hand Hondas throughout the year.
This last race, Taku was zonkered and ant was sent out too late to do a fast lap in Q1. But having said that, up to mangy Course, the Team Honda's qualifying attempts was pathetic.

Perhaps their management needed a shot in the arm? or a swift kick up the bum!! :eek:

the honda has really suffered this year and as I said, I think they are in a development phase. they took a look at last years car and redesigned it to give a more rounded article.

it became apparent that it wasn't going to be a winner out of the box and they have been working their arses off trying to get a stable platform which with a bit of luck they now have.

from here, they will be refining and tweaking. with a bit of luck they will have a car by the end of the season which they understand and can have competitive at the start of next year.

This single, hard won point may just be the shot in the arm to spur them on that you talk about. Still, from the car that fell out of the transporter at australia, they have progressed quite a bit.

[hugh_lee]

Let's see what Fry has to say:



http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2463980,00.html

Does he really mean that while others are using state of art scientific software, they were using their intuition to try to make a faster car?
I mean it's pretty clear now why they are performing so badly!

now,hold on just a minute! i will have you know that nick fry borrowed my gf's crystal to show them the right direction to go. that's only for the aero, though. as for the engine, i believe they sent in a feng shui expert to show them where the apex of the V in the V-8 should be pointing towards

[Valve Bounce]

the honda has really suffered this year and as I said, I think they are in a development phase. they took a look at last years car and redesigned it to give a more rounded article.

it became apparent that it wasn't going to be a winner out of the box and they have been working their arses off trying to get a stable platform which with a bit of luck they now have.

from here, they will be refining and tweaking. with a bit of luck they will have a car by the end of the season which they understand and can have competitive at the start of next year.

This single, hard won point may just be the shot in the arm to spur them on that you talk about. Still, from the car that fell out of the transporter at australia, they have progressed quite a bit.


Much effort will be spent this year to improve the aero, but I think (my opinion only) that this car won't see the light of next year. I suspect Honda will have a new car for next year, that is.

[Flat.tyres]

Much effort will be spent this year to improve the aero, but I think (my opinion only) that this car won't see the light of next year. I suspect Honda will have a new car for next year, that is.

they chucked the baby out with the bathwater last year. would very much doubt they will do the same this year unless they are convinced that they have moved in a fundementally wrong direction.

last years car was not too efficient and relied on power to win. great for qualification but no good for race pace. they saw improvement but my guess is that developed it as far as they thought they could.

This years car, with their lovely new wind tunnel, is version 1.0

ok, they may be up to revision 1.99 by the end of the year but next years car will be a 2.0 based on this years in my opinion.

This is real armchair expert stuff because I know nothing about the Honda or the team other than what I read on the web and snippets I hear out and about and have no involvement with them whatsoever. just guessing on this one like the rest of us :D

[Valve Bounce]

It is my understanding that much effort has been made on this year's Honda and they expect it will out-perform last year's car from now on; Super Aguri just doesn't have the same resources to develop last year's Honda.

[VkmSpouge]

Honda certainly improved (about time!) and Button put in a good performance but the car is still not close to where it should be.

[PSfan]

I had made it very clear that I will not respond to this poster, and I have no reason to change my mind.

If you have a reasonable question to ask me, please do so directly to me.

But I think the celebration of poor bunsen getting one point to be a cause celebre is lamentable, not so much on poor bunsen as it is in Team Honda.
Do you really think Team Honda deserves any accolades?


And quite frankly Valve, I prefer it that you didn't respond to my posts, it just means that when I point out when your wrong to the forum, you won't try to contradict my post...

But I do have a question, and maybe if another member on the board finds it interesting, maybe they will ask as well so you can answer it without responding to me directly: How can as you put in that silly thread you started about the armchair professionals "Alonso drove his heart out" when in the best car on the grid (based on the constructors championship) finishes 7th. But when Button in a very bad Honda finishes 1 position behind Alonso its the very sarcastic "BIG DEAL You wouldn't be biased in the least bit are you Valve?

[leopard]

It is fine, people just don't have to always agree on our idea.

You may need ask Robert Kubica if need be :)

[Valve Bounce]

And quite frankly Valve, I prefer it that you didn't respond to my posts, it just means that when I point out when your wrong to the forum, you won't try to contradict my post...

But I do have a question, and maybe if another member on the board finds it interesting, maybe they will ask as well so you can answer it without responding to me directly: How can as you put in that silly thread you started about the armchair professionals "Alonso drove his heart out" when in the best car on the grid (based on the constructors championship) finishes 7th. But when Button in a very bad Honda finishes 1 position behind Alonso its the very sarcastic "BIG DEAL You wouldn't be biased in the least bit are you Valve?


No Comment!

[jens]

As has been mentioned often - Button tends to drive well in good cars and not-so-well in poor cars. As the car is now a bit better, then also JB is a bit better - in Magny-Cours he was better than Barrichello and quite clearly, which has been quite unusual this year!

In some way Jenson was lucky to start his F1 career in a good team, which enabled him to shine, so that even a poor 2001 season didn't end his career. If his F1 career had started in a poor team and he had struggled there a lot, maybe it would have put an end to his future in the series... but that's not important any more. Probably it's better to perform well, when one has a competitive machinery rather than hasn't (who cares whether you drive well and finish 10th or drive mediocrly and finish 12th).

Some seem quite over the moon about Honda's slight progress. I think that it was about time, I expected them to become point contenders earlier than that. They showed some promise at Monaco, hopefully Magny-Cours wouldn't be another "one-off". Don't expect Honda to become significantly better during this season (last point positions).

[raphael123]

I think in fairness to Valve, he's right in that we shouldn't really be congratulating Honda on scoring 1 point. As he's correctly pointed out, with their resources, 1 point in 8 races is a disgrace really.

However, that doesn't mean we can't praise Button, who, though I'm not a fan of his, was probably driver of the race. He did a splendid job!! Button can't be to blame for Honda giving him a cr*p car, that's down to the design team. I'm sure Button wouldn't have given them feedback resulting in such a poor car, hence the fact he knew it wasn't right the first time he drove the car.

Well done to Honda for their development speed over the course of the season, but they really should be able to get it right first time now, rather than spend the first half races in the season fixing everything that's wrong before they start making it quick.

Out of the 4 Honda drivers though, I think Sato has done the best job, followed by Rubens, who has for the majority of the season had the upperhand over Button, followed by Button, and then Davidson, who apart from shining in practice, seems to lose his nerve during qualifying and the race. His mistake in France was that of a complete novice, not of someone who has been driving F1 cars for as many years as he has been. I said give him half a season before judging him, and it's coming up now, and he hasn't really made any impression on Sato yet, who was completely dominated by Button. I was surprised to hear Davidsons comments recently in which he stated he thought he had proven he deserved a place in F1. If he wasn't British, I think a lot of people would be wondering what exactly he has done to deserve a seat from this year's showing...unfortuantely :(

[Ian McC]

Forget hamilton, cause Button will be winning the British GP ;) :p :


Ever the optimist Stevie :p :

I am interested to see how much the fans have moved over to Lewis on Sunday and if Button has become somewhat the forgotten man of F1.

[jens]

Besides Monaco Magny-Cours looks like another one-off for Honda. Okay, they were better in race than in qualifying in France, but at Silverstone they are in weaker grid positions than they were at Magny-Cours. I can hardly see them scoring another point in "normal conditions".

[stevie_gerrard]

maybe not, but its good to know that Honda are heading in the right direction. I know it's not exactly ideal, and it isnt good enough considering their previous season performances, but for a team having to start again with a difficult car, it was nice to see that fighting spirit.

It's a shame with the problems they've had, but i agree that things aren't too hopeful for this british GP after qualifying.

[Hazell B]

Even allowing for cars falling out ahead of him, Button made places during the race. Okay, mostly down to one stopping, but he made places. Savour that - it doesn't often happen :)

[jens]

Finish 10th, finish 15th or retire - what's the difference? They don't give points for any of those achievements. Still 3 points to go to catch Super Aguri. :p :

[stevie_gerrard]

no but they get respect from fellow drivers and fans for the hard efforts they are putting in.

If Button and Lewis swapped places, im sure Button would be the one near the front and Lewis would be struggling, not as much as button is cause we all know hamiltons a great talent, but you need a good car to be in the position Lewis is in.