IRC - New cars [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Mirek

23rd November 2007, 00:10

Langdale Forest: For example Porsche 911 GT3 (996, 997), Nissan 350Z, Aston Martin, Ferarri 360, 430 or Masseratti GT and others. Cars which have N-GT homologation. It was said that they would be allowed in 2008 ERC...

GigiGalliNo1

23rd November 2007, 13:58

hrmmmm... then that would just be like a tarmac rally with high performance vehicles... like targa tasmania in australia or gumball 3000 but not hoons lol :p

Langdale Forest

23rd November 2007, 20:35

]Langdale Forest: For example Porsche 911 GT3 (996, 997), Nissan 350Z, Aston Martin, Ferarri 360, 430 or Masseratti GT and others. Cars which have N-GT homologation. It was said that they would be allowed in 2008 ERC...

Have any of those cars been rallied before?

Mirek

23rd November 2007, 22:01

Of course they have. For example Vallejo or Puras in Spanish championship, Delecour in France etc. About 5 cars in every event in Italy, Spain, more in France, some in Germany etc.

And these cars are the pure classic cars not shopping bags as later. Remember Porsche 911 in 1970' and 80' ;)

[Madeira-Rally]

27th November 2007, 10:13

Have any of those cars been rallied before?

Look at this videos :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezum4gPOwgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV5Lid614Zc

Roy

27th November 2007, 12:53

Can anyboy translate this story?

http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/17910,news.html

luca

27th November 2007, 13:27

i guess this is source: http://www.pirtekrally.com.au/newsletter/23112007.html

Lousada

27th November 2007, 13:29

GT's will definately not be allowed in the ERC in 2008. They are not safe according to the FIA!

pino

27th November 2007, 14:16

Have any of those cars been rallied before?

IRC Sanremo 2007 :D

Roy

27th November 2007, 15:11

i guess this is source: http://www.pirtekrally.com.au/newsletter/23112007.html

Thnx!

Langdale Forest

27th November 2007, 19:13

GT's will definately not be allowed in the ERC in 2008. They are not safe according to the FIA!

Are they not safe because they are too fast?

jonas_mcrae

27th November 2007, 23:16

Dont know if they are as safe as S2000's but Im sure they are not as fast(I know it sounds weird). In spain GT's currently run against s2000's and Gr. N's and acording to results and to comments from drivers such as Puras they are behind S2000's in pace.

http://www.todorallyes.es/reportajesentrevistas/Entrevista-a-Jesus-Puras-10-2007-49194.html

in the interview he is asked about what is THE car to drive, in order to win the Spanish asphalt championship and he answers:
"Right now, S2000's may be a little step ahead of GT's thats why I think performance should be equalized. I dont know if that could be done by letting more room for improvement for GT's or penalizing S2000's.

Right now GT's are a little bit behing S2000's on pace. I supose because they are a little bit controlled in specs. The good side of things is that more GT's are comming into the scene, like Piedrafitas Ferrari F360 which seems to be a big project. From my point of view let GT's come to rally, the sport needs as much help as it can get!

jonas_mcrae

27th November 2007, 23:20

its also worth to mention that in the same interview, Puras remarks that GT's are cars that with low maintenance cost are able to reach for high spots in the leader boards. something that its really important in rallying today!

HaCo

28th November 2007, 17:20

feresc13

28th November 2007, 20:30

It would be fantastic to see GT cars in IRC. Those cars are very spectacular and on tarmac events are fast enough to fight against S2000 cars, but the main problem of this cars is that they are not full drive cars, they use to be propulsion cars.

But here in Spain Vallejo until the two last events was fighting for the spanish championship, also was the leader of the championship.

Have a look to some of the GT-cars seen in Spain

Porsche 911GT3 Vallejo
http://www.planetamotor.es/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/911.jpg

Porsche 911 GT3 Entrecanales

Ferrari 360 Modena Puras
http://www.rallyclassics.net/PortalNET/Portals/_rallyclassics/Album/3098mabe878f4-1664-4dc1-953b-63dd625fb993.jpg

Aston Martin Xavier Pons
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pMDc5dBj-XZ3VcqAAivWnH3YOuk5kMNUUM0r6k0hTe9wCxswsAJGTHgJyex j3E9PBAMM4XqPvn4s

Langdale Forest

28th November 2007, 20:59

Will those cars only be used on tarmac?

feresc13

28th November 2007, 21:35

Well if they get the authorisation to run IRC or WRC, I think that they will only run on tarmac events, because on gravel they don't have nothing to do against S2000 or any full wheel drive car

jonas_mcrae

28th November 2007, 22:11

Hmm... to say they are slower because they don't have the fastest time on the leaderboard is IMO a bad assumption. Of course, in total on the stage they are slower, but on top speed they are a lot faster. IMO it's quite redicoulous to drive rallycars at speeds op +300Km/h.

look I dindt just say "oh these cars are slow because they'r behind in the leader boards and just because i say so!" NO i said they seemed to be slower and that "some" driver called Puras also said so. I also said why they were not as fast (controlled performance). So dont try to be a smarta55. And of course they are faster on a straight line, but does that matter much in a twisty rally? he11 no.

HaCo

29th November 2007, 16:50

Dude, calm down. Trying to be a smartass? Just wanted to write down my opinion.

IMO those speeds are way to high on rallyroads. Maybe that is the reason declares them as unsafe, that's an assumption.

Sulland

29th November 2007, 19:03

Would love to see Grønholm in a 911, as a "gentleman" driver after retirement !

GigiGalliNo1

30th November 2007, 15:41

boaring!! if eye wanna see ferrari's or porsche`s id watch touring car or track racing i like the IRC, its cars, these are rally cars like WRC cars, Grp, N and S1600/JWRC

Not bentlys or lambo's.... I would watch Gumball 3000 if I wanted to see those cars..

Mirek

30th November 2007, 17:47

GigiGalliNo1: Probably You know absolutely nothing about rally history. Porsche is much more classic rally car then any stupid shopping bag rebuilt to S1600 racing special. What about Lancia Stratos, Lancia 037, Toyota Celica, Opel Manta, Alpine 110, Datsun 240Z or Mazda RX-7? Those were pure sports cars just from their nature. What is beter to race with? To refuse sports car and to race with shopping bags? A bit strange idea, don't You think?

HaCo

1st December 2007, 13:25

The current Porsches are nothing like the Porsches in the history of rallysport. I can follow somehow gigigalli and don't see a current racecar porsche doing a safari rally. As far as the shopping bags are concerned, well they can do the safari.

Sheener

2nd December 2007, 23:13

]GigiGalliNo1: Probably You know absolutely nothing about rally history. Porsche is much more classic rally car then any stupid shopping bag rebuilt to S1600 racing special. What about Lancia Stratos, Lancia 037, Toyota Celica, Opel Manta, Alpine 110, Datsun 240Z or Mazda RX-7? Those were pure sports cars just from their nature. What is beter to race with? To refuse sports car and to race with shopping bags? A bit strange idea, don't You think?

S1600 are a shopping bag rebuilt, ya thats why renault, citroen, peugeot and suzuki have gone and spent millions developing these cars!!!!!! A porche isnt anywhere near the same car as a s1600, rally history!!! Move on! You said it yourself, there sports cars, not rally cars,there great on a race track or driving down a motor way but not on a real rally stage, for that you need a real rally car, like a s1600.

Mirek

2nd December 2007, 23:33

Evidently You haven't realized what I was told...

Yes, these days S1600 is great rally car. But it is a great sport tool made by using huge amounth of money from totaly diferent car which only target is low cost and some usefulness in the city. For me it is absolutely crazy to built completely new cars looking like shopping bags instead of using sports cars for making rally cars from them. It is just a marketing nothing to do with sport. Shopping bags and small family hatches are the biggest market but why should they be a reason to prohibit cars built as sports ones from the very first drawing? These days only production cars Subaru and Mitsubishi are not pretended family cars with almost nothing shared with the base model except the shape. Well, don't mind if someone wants to make such illusions but why to prohibid the cars which are built for sport instead? That's what embarrass me...

Tom206wrc

3rd December 2007, 12:48

Personally I have nothing against GT cars in rallying ;) and I have nothing against rally cars on circuits :p :

Scott Dryden

3rd December 2007, 20:16

If there are competitors out there who want to run GT cars on IRC events, I don't have a huge problem with it, as long as they're not going to prove fast enough to feature prominently on the leader board. If you have five GT cars consistently fighting for the overall win, then that would surely undermine the whole series. When KSO, the FIA and manufactures got together to thrash out the S2000 regulations, it was agreed that costs shouldn't be allowed to spiral out of control. Using GT cars to go rallying would surely prove hugely expensive. I suspect the spares bills alone would be horrendous.

jparker

4th December 2007, 03:04

]Evidently You haven't realized what I was told...

Yes, these days S1600 is great rally car. But it is a great sport tool made by using huge amounth of money from totaly diferent car which only target is low cost and some usefulness in the city. For me it is absolutely crazy to built completely new cars looking like shopping bags instead of using sports cars for making rally cars from them. It is just a marketing nothing to do with sport. Shopping bags and small family hatches are the biggest market but why should they be a reason to prohibit cars built as sports ones from the very first drawing? These days only production cars Subaru and Mitsubishi are not pretended family cars with almost nothing shared with the base model except the shape. Well, don't mind if someone wants to make such illusions but why to prohibid the cars which are built for sport instead? That's what embarrass me...

I understand your point, but GT cars have nothing to do with rallying. Rally cars are unique in a way that nobody needs them as such for consumers. Therefore, what you make rally car from is just not important.

AndyRAC

4th December 2007, 12:09

I don't have a problem with GT cars, after all variety is the spice of life.
'Sportscars' used to be allowed - Stratos, Alpine A110, etc

feresc13

4th December 2007, 15:57

I understand your point, but GT cars have nothing to do with rallying. Rally cars are unique in a way that nobody needs them as such for consumers. Therefore, what you make rally car from is just not important.

Nothing, nothing... Sure? Here in Spain, only some mechanical problems aparted Vallejo from the spanish tramac tittle, I think that are cars to take in consideration on tarmac events

jonas_mcrae

4th December 2007, 18:31

Lets wait for Principe de Asturias in IRC 2008 and you all will see what those GT's and their drivers are made of.

Sulland

4th December 2007, 20:50

Interessting to see that a Ferrari is winning a rally in front of a WRC car !!
Comparison: http://www.atodomotor.com/rallyesonline/2007/maspalomas/online.php

Total:
http://www.atodomotor.com/rallyesonline/2007/maspalomas/pdf/Clasificacion.pdf

Eyvind

5th December 2007, 08:33

People who say that the GT is not attractive in rally, I propose to all come to Spain to see the Vallejo's Porsche and Ferrari 360 in action. In Spain have been the real attraction of the 2007 season. :)

The Rally Principe de Asturias 2008 the GT will have to start the last and in a separate classification and may not be comparing the times correctly, as happened to Vallejo this year.

In 2008 will also be a trophy in Spain with the Nissan 350Z. Already confirmed 5 drivers.

jparker

7th December 2007, 04:53

Nothing, nothing... Sure? Here in Spain, only some mechanical problems aparted Vallejo from the spanish tramac tittle, I think that are cars to take in consideration on tarmac events

Are all Spanish rallies Catalunia alike? If yes, that may explain Vallejo's success. However, more technical events may be problematic for GT cars.
But don't get me wrong, I have nothing against GT class. The more cars, the better :)

Eyvind

13th December 2007, 08:40

Are all Spanish rallies Catalunia alike? If yes, that may explain Vallejo's success. However, more technical events may be problematic for GT cars.
But don't get me wrong, I have nothing against GT class. The more cars, the better :)

Only 2-3 rallys of spanish championship are similar to that of Catalunya ... Others are more complicated

Vallejo also won in very difficult stages (for example Rally Ferrol)

Sulland

20th December 2007, 19:09

car............... Prepared/served by
_______________________________________
Grande Punto....... Abarth
207.................... Peugeot Sport/ Kronos and others
Polo................... VW SA/ Rene Georges
Fabia................. Skoda Sport
Fiesta..................Britek/Australia (Homologation mid 08)
Auris...................Toyota SA/ Grifone (
MG ZR............... MSD

More ??

A.F.F.

20th December 2007, 21:02

I've seen them on gravel and snow too but they so far off from the pace on loose surface there's no point to use them anywhere but on tarmac. Nice slides though :D

Maui J.

22nd December 2007, 22:00

More types of cars the merrier I say.
A bit of exotica can't hurt rallying. I'm old enough to remember the big silver V8 Mercedes at Rally NZ in 1980. Wow! These cars made a big impression with the fans. They were off the pace of the nimble escorts, fiats, chevettes and datsuns, but they looked and sounded great.
These N-GT cars will never be a match for modern 4WD cars on gravel or snow but they can add some spice to tarmac rallies. Bring it on! Love to see a Jag in the mix as well.

Here's a video of Rally NZ 1980 featuring the 4 big Mercs of Waldegaard, Mikkola, Cowan and Carlsson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTM5C3TrL4o

sal

1st February 2008, 16:59

Another story in this weeks MN is that Suzuki are looking at entering two Swift S1600s in this years IRC as a learning exercise for the S2000 version of the new car.

HaCo

1st February 2008, 17:01

Another story in this weeks MN is that Suzuki are looking at entering two Swift S1600s in this years IRC as a learning exercise for the S2000 version of the new car.
That's good news. Will there be an FWS championship in IRC now too?