Wages in sport

[Hazell B]

Bezza's mentioned the prize money at Wimbledon in another thread and it got me wondering - is there a sport (where the sexes do not compete on equal terms) in which women deserve the same wage and/or prize money as men?

I can't think of a single one.

Woman may take the same out of themselves in competition, but frankly do they deserve the same wage as, say, a footballing man? They do in the sports where men and women compete against each other, such as equestrian, of course. But in an all female version of a sport? I don't think so.

By the way, pole dancing is not a sport :p :

[fandango]

Since when was the money people made based on what they deserve? Women will get made as much as, or more than, men when it makes good business sense for the one(s) doing the paying...

What about synchronised swimming?

[BDunnell]

In many cases, the female 'versions' of sports simply don't command anywhere near the level of interest as the male ones do. Think of football, for example. Women's football is a great thing, but it is impossible to justify saying that it is on anywhere near an equal footing as the men's game. Therefore, the level of coverage and the wages are simply not as high, and deservedly so. This is not to demean those playing it; I'm just trying to be realistic.

I hesitate to mention golf, because women's golf is of a genuinely high standard. Thinking about it quickly, I would say that this is the sport in which the two sexes are probably closest in terms of the standard of their games. I also think that women's golf should be given more attention if only to piss off the more sexist players in the men's game who have been very patronising about some of their female counterparts.

[Hazell B]

Men compete in synchronised swimming? :eek:

[Drew]

Howz about gymnastics, hockey and netball?

[Hazell B]

How about them?

I'm pretty sure men don't do the same gymnastics as women, though :confused:

[Drew]

How about them?

I'm pretty sure men don't do the same gymnastics as women, though :confused:

Well, they are pretty women orientated sports (hockey is debatable..) so perhaps wages are favourable to women, I have no figures though :)

Don't men do pretty much teh same events in the olympics?

[janneppi]

Don't women compte in some shooting sports in the same category with men?

[Hawkmoon]

I agree with BDunnell. Prize money and wages are pretty much determined by the amount of money the sport generates. Women's sports, as a general rule, don't generate the same kind of income that men's sports do, so they pay less.

[Mark]

But am I right in thinking that in the top level sports such as football etc, that women are not specifically excluded? e.g. Should a female football player be good enough to play in a football league side then she could do so alongside the men?

[BDunnell]

But am I right in thinking that in the top level sports such as football etc, that women are not specifically excluded? e.g. Should a female football player be good enough to play in a football league side then she could do so alongside the men?

Don't know. Interesting question.

By the way, I forgot to mention one sport that's an interesting example, in that when British TV coverage of it began, women were featured, yet they aren't now — darts. When that fine ITV show Indoor League, hosted by Fred Trueman, introduced darts to our screens, it used to show women playing. I don't know if they ever played against men, though. This gave rise to a wonderful moment of commentary, as a rather stern-looking woman with very severe glasses stepped up to the oche: he said of the player, 'Any man would be proud to have her, as a partner, or possibly even a wife.'

[Erki]

What about snooker? Chess? Tennis? (I sure am more interested in women's tennis ;) ) Beach volleyball? Perhaps sailing? Indy Racing League? ;)

[Mark]

We we know that women can, and do, compete in motorsport on an equal footing to the men.

[slinkster]

As far as Wimbledon goes... I can't really talk about any other sports as I simply don't know any facts/figures... but Wimbledon prize money goes, I've never had a problem with the men getting more, because as someone else has stated, the mens matches of five sets are much more demanding and pull in far more crowds and ticket sales than three set womens matches. I think that's a fair cop.

[Dave B]

There's your answer then: pay tennis players in proportion to the crowd sizes or TV ratings :idea:

[BDunnell]

We we know that women can, and do, compete in motorsport on an equal footing to the men.

Yes, especially in rallying. Pat Moss, Michele Mouton and Louise Aitken-Walker were all outstanding, and well capable of competing with the men in equivalent machinery.

[Rudy Tamasz]

There's an expensive gym next to my office. Pretty girls come there in full makeup and flood the parking lot with their expensive off-roaders. Must be earning lotsa money in some sports. Rallying, maybe?

[Hazell B]

Some of you have missed the point. I was asking in which sports a woman should be able to demand as much money as a man even though they do not play on equal terms.

Motorsport, for example, wouldn't count as they do compete in the same classes at the same time.

[Erki]

Figure skating?
Dancing? Not tango, this time. ;) And no, not pole dancing either.
Miss Universe / Mister Universe? C'mon, they have two classes there! And don't tell me it's not a sport. :hmh:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

By the way, I forgot to mention one sport that's an interesting example, in that when British TV coverage of it began, women were featured, yet they aren't now — darts. When that fine ITV show Indoor League, hosted by Fred Trueman, introduced darts to our screens, it used to show women playing. I don't know if they ever played against men, though. This gave rise to a wonderful moment of commentary, as a rather stern-looking woman with very severe glasses stepped up to the oche: he said of the player, 'Any man would be proud to have her, as a partner, or possibly even a wife.'

Women have a separate World Darts championship, I can't remember 'Indoor League' but did that have professional tournaments?

Technically, even with sports that don't require physical fitness or strength (e.g Darts and Snooker) men are usually going to be better than woman due to higher testosterone levels. This increases hand eyes co-ordination, although some woman can have high testosterone levels I think its fair that they have separate competitions at a professional level.

[Hazell B]

Just remember something else I was going to ask opinions on -

There's an athlete who's been competing in the disabled version of his sport, as he has 'bionic' legs, but now he's been cleared to compete in able-bodied races. Fair or not?

I'm almost 40 and smoke a lot, so am frankly pants at the 100m sprint. However, if I squint a bit can I join in the blind races do you think? Or perhaps if I strap one arm up behind my back, can I do the paralympics?

[BDunnell]

Some of you have missed the point. I was asking in which sports a woman should be able to demand as much money as a man even though they do not play on equal terms.

Motorsport, for example, wouldn't count as they do compete in the same classes at the same time.

Er... just waiting to see who'd spot that one first... ;)

[Erki]

Motorsport, for example, wouldn't count as they do compete in the same classes at the same time.

These days, yes, but in early nineties, in the WRC, there was a separate cup for women too.

[Hazell B]

And did they deserve the same prize money?

[fandango]

..... due to higher testosterone levels. This increases hand eyes co-ordination......

Have you been looking at those magazines again?

[BDunnell]

Just remember something else I was going to ask opinions on -

There's an athlete who's been competing in the disabled version of his sport, as he has 'bionic' legs, but now he's been cleared to compete in able-bodied races. Fair or not?

Depends whether the bionic legs give him a performance advantage.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think Tennis might be the only sport women play at a pro level where there is a similar level of popularity to the men's version. Other than the Olympics, and LPGA golf, and maybe the WNBA, you rarely see much of women's sport in the mainstream press in North America.

Of course, in some sports, women just compete straight up and win. The most recent Queen's Plate horse race in Toronto was won by a woman. IN certain sports, they can compete, but their numbers are usually are about 5% or less in sports where they can compete straight up,so the odds are against seeing a lot of women winning in head on comparsions....

AS Mr. Dunnell points out, it is business on why women don't make the money the men do...

[Hazell B]

Depends whether the bionic legs give him a performance advantage.


Not in my opinion.

Advantage or not, the plain fact is he's not able bodied and 'complete' (for want of a better word) so should not be allowed in real professional competition against athletes who are 'whole'. Just like I shouldn't be allowed in children's pony classes because I'm small and make a mess eating icecream.

Anyway, how would anyone know if there is an advantage or not? He didn't race without the artificial limbs so has no time to improve on.

[BDunnell]

Not in my opinion.

Advantage or not, the plain fact is he's not able bodied and 'complete' (for want of a better word) so should not be allowed in real professional competition against athletes who are 'whole'. Just like I shouldn't be allowed in children's pony classes because I'm small and make a mess eating icecream.

Anyway, how would anyone know if there is an advantage or not? He didn't race without the artificial limbs so has no time to improve on.

I don't know whether there is anything enshrined in the rules of professional able-bodied athletics that deals with any of this.

[Mark]

Well a wheelchair althlete will beat someone who's running on foot, so I guess that wouldn't be allowed :p

[BDunnell]

And if they weren't beating them, they could run their toes over instead.

[walrus81]

Men compete in synchronised swimming? :eek:
I've never heard of mens synchronised swimming, but I do remember a situation where there was a male synchonised swimmer (in a team with females) who wasn't allowed to compete, so he had to be replaced in the team.

On the topic of sports where men and women compete seperately, the most obvious case of the women getting more exposure would be beach volleyball (as mentioned by Erki).

[jso1985]

These days, yes, but in early nineties, in the WRC, there was a separate cup for women too.

but it wasn't a totally separated thing, a female driver could have won the Drivers championship AND the Ladies cup at the same time.

Wages are according the sports popularity I think, some female football players are way more talented than some pro men players, yet they still earn less just because Women's football ain't popular.

But I still think it's silly to have separate competitions in sports were physical strenght isn't needed, motorsports handle it without problems so I don't see why Golf or Snooker couldn't handle it

[ozrevhead]

Equestrian would be one sport I think of in this .

I dont know about Europe but we are getting more Female Jockeys in Horse Racing...Male or Female - they certainly earn their keep!

[LotusElise]

but it wasn't a totally separated thing, a female driver could have won the Drivers championship AND the Ladies cup at the same time.

Strangely enough, there was a rule stating that this was not possible. It has always been like that since the 1930s in most motorsports. There were cases of female racing teams at Brooklands deliberately slowing down to receive the Ladies' Prize and any qualification for big races that came from it.


But I still think it's silly to have separate competitions in sports were physical strenght isn't needed, motorsports handle it without problems so I don't see why Golf or Snooker couldn't handle it

Women are allowed to enter Snooker tournaments but rarely do.

[Hazell B]

I feel stupid as the one and only sport I have ever bothered to compete in at a professional level is both men and women together and I forgot about it :mark:

Hedge Laying (they have prize money and rules and stuff, so it's classed as sport) is 6 or 8 hours of extreme physical graft, with most competitors steaming in the winter air and getting cut to ribbons on the hedges, has equal male and female competition at all levels. I've beaten men who do it for a living (once) and nobody minds at all. A woman eneters the national and World Champs each year (she always beats me :p : ) and they don't bat an eyelid at her taking home the prizes.

Mind you, I don't think most men would argue with any winning woman clutching a chainsaw :D