and the slide continues...[merged]

[veeten]

another poor performance for Alonso, while his younger teammate takes yet another podium and adds more points to his lead.

How long before the big meltdown happens... :s :o

[Dave B]

If F1 ever returns to Magny Cours, Fernando needs to get a tattoo which reads "I can't overtake round the outside at the hairpin".

He made some great moves in that race, then at a stroke made himself look like a rookie.

I don't expect a big meltdown, he's classier than that, but he needs to get back in the game just in case McLaren decide to counter Ferrari by putting their resources behind one driver.

[Ian McC]

That's harsh, he started in 10th and made one outstanding overtaking manoeuvre and battled all the way.

[F1boat]

He drove fantastic, if you ask me. His race was a bit ruined by poor strategy, but he put a great drive!!!

[blakebeatty]

If the red cars are back to being competitive, then the focus of McLaren will be to defend the championship lead of Lewis. The resources will go to Lewis. This cannot be a good thing for a strained Fernando Alonso

[ojciec dyrektor]

He drove fantastic, if you ask me. His race was a bit ruined by poor strategy, but he put a great drive!!!

I agree. He was one of the best drivers today.

[RaikkonenRules]

another poor performance for Alonso, while his younger teammate takes yet another podium and adds more points to his lead.

How long before the big meltdown happens... :s :o

I can definately see Alonso ending up 4th by the end. He's definately the slowest of the Top 4 drivers.


I agree. He was one of the best drivers today.

I saw Alonso make at least 5 mistakes, yeah give him a medal :rolleyes: As for his move on Heidfeld, he forced him off the track. :mad:

[TMorel]

I didn't think he forced him off the track.
It was an agressive but fair move, and Nick was quick thinking enough to take to the concrete to avoid any chance of taking them both off.
Good racing by both of them

[RaikkonenRules]

I didn't think he forced him off the track.
It was an agressive but fair move, and Nick was quick thinking enough to take to the concrete to avoid any chance of taking them both off.
Good racing by both of them

If Nick hadden't shortcutted the chichane they would definately have crashed. Yes real good by Alonso.

[blakebeatty]

And his racing with Giancarlo looked amateurish. He tried the same move in the same corner to the same lack of success each time

[VkmSpouge]

I thought Alonso drove pretty well (though by no means error free). I think he was hindered by McLaren's poor strategy which after he had overtaken Fisichella and Heidfeld then put him back behind them again.

[Kevincal]

Are you kidding me?! ANOTHER Alonso bashing thread. This **** is getting ridiculous...

[RaikkonenRules]

You can haldley say all this isn't fair after all his whining and constant errors.

[TMorel]

RaikkonenRules
OK, just seen the overhead camera of the incident - on reflection you were right

[Big Ben]

another chance for some to show the true size of their stupidity.... It´s unbelievable what can one read on this thread....

Alonso tried to overtake on the outside because there was no other option... perhaps you would have jumped over NH or GF.... He had to try...

Some should consider the fact that he had little options with the strategy.... he qualified 10th and he had to start the race with the amount of fuel he had in q3.

I´d say Hamilton´s race was even worse.... the only thing he did the entire race was to lose one place... The same things goes for Massa. I think he realized that KR can overtake him only after it happened... He got used to just driving around carelessly after getting the pole

I think FA could have finished 6th... at best... there was a significant gap between him and the BMW to do better...

[Ian McC]

People bitch when drivers don't try and overtake and they bitch when they do, I guess there is no pleasing some people :rolleyes:

[Robinho]

what can he do, his only mistake was not making the first move on heidfeld stick, which in itself was agreat move, the one intyo the chicane was a great move, he had the line and was ahead so it was up to Nick to avoid, why should Alonso do anything any different, he got side by side going into a chicane but was on the inside and the racing line, what do you think they are out there for!!

as for the hairpin he was clearly trying to force something out of Fisi but with little luck.

Alonso drove a great race, made multiple passing moves, ON TRACK, but gets panned for trying, perhaps it would have been better to try and make all the moves in the pits?

going back to the chicane, Nick could have backed out as well, but chose to go for it side by side and had to take to the concrete after he had lost the position and track position, he was given little option but it was hardly Alonso's fault that Nick wanted to keep his place.

[ojciec dyrektor]

After the race Alonso and Heidfeld said it was FUN to fight with each other. For me it was fun too. Maybe some people have to watch darts if the best fight in whole race was unfair for him?

I don't like some drivers for their attitude or average but I'm trying to be fair. Ralf for example. This year he's driving like my grandma but today he was 10th! Fantastic race for him. Maybe he recall how to race.

Stop bashing drivers for every move. It's f***ing boring and simply foolish.

[jens]

Alonso's performance at Magny-Cours was strongly affected by the gearbox problems in qualifying, so it's hard to say, how well he could have fought against Hamilton without problems. So therefore I can't say that FA was a failure in this race. He did his best, but McLaren wasn't a superior car in this race. Hamilton managed to beat Kubica only by 10 secs in the end, which shows that McLaren was only slightly better than BMW - therefore no surprise that Alonso struggled against Heidfeld so much.

[jso1985]

if he would have not tried any overtaking move you would be still bashing him...
:rolleyes:

He didn't have a great race but I still don't see all the wrong things you see in him

[VkmSpouge]

Alonso's performance at Magny-Cours was strongly affected by the gearbox problems in qualifying, so it's hard to say, how well he could have fought against Hamilton without problems.

Had those gearbox problems in qualifying not screwed his race up, I think Alonso would have at least been able to match Hamilton today as his fastest lap was 0.1s faster than Hamilton's. Alonso clearly had the pace today but was so often behind a BMW he couldn't use it.

[RaikkonenRules]

Alonso's performance at Magny-Cours was strongly affected by the gearbox problems in qualifying, so it's hard to say, how well he could have fought against Hamilton without problems. So therefore I can't say that FA was a failure in this race. He did his best, but McLaren wasn't a superior car in this race. Hamilton managed to beat Kubica only by 10 secs in the end, which shows that McLaren was only slightly better than BMW - therefore no surprise that Alonso struggled against Heidfeld so much.

Don't forget Lewis made 3 stops and was catching the Ferraris for a bit of the race.

[F1boat]

cause he was lighter.

[ioan]

Are you kidding me?! ANOTHER Alonso bashing thread. This **** is getting ridiculous...

You'll have to live with it. And it isn't ridiculous, he didn't live up to the expectations.

[ojciec dyrektor]

Hamilton managed to beat Kubica only by 10 secs in the end, which shows that McLaren was only slightly better than BMW - therefore no surprise that Alonso struggled against Heidfeld so much.

But Hamilton had idiotic 3 stop strategy.

[F1MAN2007]

People bitch when drivers don't try and overtake and they bitch when they do, I guess there is no pleasing some people :rolleyes:

I totally agree with you man.

[F1MAN2007]

Whatever you say here, Alonso was the man today.

I don't see any driver out there who can be agressive and attacking like Alonso did and stay controling his car and stay on the road. He did a brilliant pass it was risky but fantastic.

Remember also that after the 2nd pits he was on hard tyres which was not helping his case to overtake the renault.

You say that he made mistakes, how many mistakes did Lewis? At least he made some mistakes because he was over the limit in attacking. So can you justify the mistakes done by the rokkie while he was not attacking any car? He lose one place at the start, was that a favour to Kimmi for a podium?! But no one did see that here.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Well, I think Alonso was both good and bad today. He did some brilliant passes, but also threw it away at a couple of times (like when he went wide trying to pass Heidfeld early on in the race). Not perfect, but nothing to bitch over really. What was more amazing was the simple fact that he only got from 10th to 7th - he passed both Heidfeld and Fisi only to have it undone when the pitstops were over.

[wedge]

After what happened at Suzuka 2005, I take my hat off to Fisi.

He deserves credit for defending and holding up a WDC and former team-mate.

Alonso had the inferior car and held up Schumi a few times. A pity Alonso got all the credit :rolleyes:

[Ian McC]

But Hamilton had idiotic 3 stop strategy.


I am guessing that was decided on some time during the race.

[Valve Bounce]

People bitch when drivers don't try and overtake and they bitch when they do, I guess there is no pleasing some people :rolleyes:


The graduation day for armchair F1 Professors must be getting close. :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

You'll have to live with it. And it isn't ridiculous, he didn't live up to the expectations.


When McLarens win, these same guys will bash Ferrari or Kimi. I know I say a lot in fun, but these guys are serious and they think they know it all.

[truefan72]

Alonso drove well today and got my vote for driver of the race, Yes McClaren went braind dead with their pitstop strategy today. I do'nt know if they realized that the track had been resurfaced and that all the old rules of Magney cours had to be thrown out. Did they also realize that the pit lane speed was reduced significantly this year?

They made an absolute mess of things in that department. Especially in light of Massa's inability to get around traffic, if LH had 2 stopped, he would have been much closer to the fight. If Alonso, had gone for a 1 stop strategy, he might have ended up 4th or 5th. At the very least, they should have fueled him extremely heavy after the first pit stop and then made the call for tyres only ( if needed) as/if the opportunity presented itself.

[wedge]

But Hamilton had idiotic 3 stop strategy.

He was losing too much time in heavy traffic, which was why they kept to a 3-stopper to pitpass the traffic.

In the end he finished half a minute down on the Ferraris, which on the top of my head meant he was about a few tenths down to the Scuderia in overall pace, which seems about right.

[akv89]

Alonso did make a few mistakes during the race (like going wide a couple times after his pitstop) and as a result was not able to maintain a lead that would put him ahead of Heidfeld and Fisichella whom he had passed on the track beforehand. Unfortunately for him, these errors, which would normally be inconsequential, cost him two places. This has more to do to with the circumstances of the race than Alonso's performance. Alonso definitely had pace today, seeing him in those few laps during the entire race when he had clear track ahead of him after Heidfeld made a pitsop.

[Hawkmoon]

Alonso was entertaining but it wasn't a vintage performance. He looked very ragged at times. I know he was pushing and it was great to see but I don't think he drove the smartest of races.

A large part of the outcome of the race was McLaren's tactics. They couldn't do anything about Alonso's starting fuel but putting him on the soft tyre when he was going to be in a lot of traffic seemed like a bit of a dumb move to me. He wasn't going to be able to use the tyre to best effect as he wasn't going to get any clear air to put down the quick laps whilst the tyre was at it's best.

The 3-stopper for Hamilton was a low risk move but it was never going to work. They pulled him in when he hit the traffic the Ferraris had just negotiated and he was less than 10 seconds adrift. In trying to avoid the traffic by pitting he somehow ended up 25 seconds adrift. That worked well.

What caused the strategy to almost come unstuck was the pace of Kubica. That extra stop put Hamilton on the same piece of track as the BMW and if not for a good move by Hamilton the podium may well have been lost.

All-in-all, not McLaren's best weekend. From driver mistakes, to unreliability, to tactical errors, McLaren pretty much muddled through the whole weekend. More of it, Ron, more of it! :D

[Timber]

I can definately see Alonso ending up 4th by the end. He's definately the slowest of the Top 4 drivers.



I saw Alonso make at least 5 mistakes, yeah give him a medal :rolleyes: As for his move on Heidfeld, he forced him off the track. :mad:

You are right he really is a bad driver , i guess i bought his 2 world championships trophys ... He stated the race in 10th place ! what do you want him to do ?
at least he tried witch is more then i can say about LH , who went backward and finished more then half a minute behind the winner !! driving the best car on the grid . I have never seen him pass anyone yet beside Kubica who whas in slower car .
I wish people would leave Alonso alone ...... After all he won his championships battling Shuy , not many driver could do that .

[veeten]

Alonso was entertaining but it wasn't a vintage performance. He looked very ragged at times. I know he was pushing and it was great to see but I don't think he drove the smartest of races.

A large part of the outcome of the race was McLaren's tactics. They couldn't do anything about Alonso's starting fuel but putting him on the soft tyre when he was going to be in a lot of traffic seemed like a bit of a dumb move to me. He wasn't going to be able to use the tyre to best effect as he wasn't going to get any clear air to put down the quick laps whilst the tyre was at it's best.

The 3-stopper for Hamilton was a low risk move but it was never going to work. They pulled him in when he hit the traffic the Ferraris had just negotiated and he was less than 10 seconds adrift. In trying to avoid the traffic by pitting he somehow ended up 25 seconds adrift. That worked well.

What caused the strategy to almost come unstuck was the pace of Kubica. That extra stop put Hamilton on the same piece of track as the BMW and if not for a good move by Hamilton the podium may well have been lost.

All-in-all, not McLaren's best weekend. From driver mistakes, to unreliability, to tactical errors, McLaren pretty much muddled through the whole weekend.

Thank you Hawk, that was the direction I was going in when I started this thread.

Looking at this, it's a far cry from Monaco where Fernando was on his game and the team was to his liking. Then came the North American tour... :erm: Absolutely NO FUN for Alonso, be it Montreal or Indy.

One hoped that Magny Cours would've put things to right and return him to form. The weekend started badly and just went downhill from there. Even with finishing 7th and collecting points, he really had to feel that this was not one of his or the team's better performances. With Silverstone coming up, hopefully things will actually get better so that Alonso can make true charge to the WDC.

[Timber]

But Hamilton had idiotic 3 stop strategy.

Maybe Kubica is as good as LH but has an inferior car ... :p :

[race aficionado]

How long before the big meltdown happens... :s :o

I wouldn't go Armageddon on Fernando Alonso yet.
So he had technical problems in qualifying and started 10th.
As we have seen now, so far the winner of the races has started on the top 4. This is not like NASCAR where you can start 32nd and drive your self brilliantly to the top and win like my man Juan did last weekend- (Great! I managed to slip that comment in! :D )

If it would have rained things would have definitely gotten entertaining and shuffled up but the bright side is that we did get to see some good dicing and splicing when FA was trying to get to the front.

Don't dismiss the two times world champion, he knows he has his hands full and he is not one to back up from a fight.

Bring on Silverstone!

:s mokin:

[stevie_gerrard]

it was an agressive move on heidfeld admitedly, but he pulled it off without making a mess of it, and he did it fairly. It was Nick's choice to run off the track, cause he knew he would collide with him otherwise.

In the end, it didnt pay off anyway, so what's everyone complaining at? if he hadn't been stuck behind the BMW of Heidfeld, we would have seen that in fact he was quicker than Lewis at one point, and he probably would have ended 4th. Considering the competition he was up against, he did a good job today just to get points. Even Jenson was quicker than him towards the end of the race.

[Hawkmoon]

Don't dismiss the two times world champion, he knows he has his hands full and he is not one to back up from a fight.

Bring on Silverstone!

:s mokin:

Whilst I'm not going to write him off just yet, I think he is the least likely of the 4 contenders to win the title.

I'd rank them, as of now, thusly:

1. Hamilton - Current leader, his points lead over the Ferraris could be enough if he remains consistent.
2/3. Raikkonen or Massa - can't split them. They seem very evenly matched so I don't think Ferrari will have the luxury of appointing a No.1 and the two will probably continue to take points off each other.
4. Alonso - Has made way too many small errors and doesn't seem to have the consistent pace of his teammate, although the raw pace is certainly there. I put him last because I think McLren will annoint Hamilton as No. 1 very soon in a bid to hold off the Ferraris.

I place Alonso last because:
1. Alonso doesn't have the backing of McLaren like he did Renault.
2. Hamilton is no Fischella and the pressure his form has placed on Alonso is completely new to the Spaniard.
3. Alonso doesn't have a big lead to defend like in previous years and he has been prone to verbal outbursts in the past when things aren't going his way. That won't sit will with ol' Ron.

He's not out of it yet but he's going to need a mistake free run from here on in and probably a fair amount of luck as well.

[Valve Bounce]

Whilst I'm not going to write him off just yet, I think he is the least likely of the 4 contenders to win the title.

I'd rank them, as of now, thusly:

1. Hamilton - Current leader, his points lead over the Ferraris could be enough if he remains consistent.
2/3. Raikkonen or Massa - can't split them. They seem very evenly matched so I don't think Ferrari will have the luxury of appointing a No.1 and the two will probably continue to take points off each other.
4. Alonso - Has made way too many small errors and doesn't seem to have the consistent pace of his teammate, although the raw pace is certainly there. I put him last because I think McLren will annoint Hamilton as No. 1 very soon in a bid to hold off the Ferraris.

I place Alonso last because:
1. Alonso doesn't have the backing of McLaren like he did Renault.
2. Hamilton is no Fischella and the pressure his form has placed on Alonso is completely new to the Spaniard.
3. Alonso doesn't have a big lead to defend like in previous years and he has been prone to verbal outbursts in the past when things aren't going his way. That won't sit will with ol' Ron.

He's not out of it yet but he's going to need a mistake free run from here on in and probably a fair amount of luck as well.

Hey Buddy!! you forgot bunsen!! :p :

[Ranger]

It should be noted that the only person in the hunt for the title who has not had a mechanical failure in either qualifying or the race so far this year is Hamilton, who is leading. You also have to factor that into the reasons why Alonso is behind Hamilton at the moment by the margin he is.

[Hawkmoon]

It should be noted that the only person in the hunt for the title who has not had a mechanical failure in either qualifying or the race so far this year is Hamilton, who is leading. You also have to factor that into the reasons why Alonso is behind Hamilton at the moment by the margin he is.

You also have to account for the fact that Hamilton is the only one who hasn't made a major error in a race or qualifying. The other three have. The lad will invariably suffer from a mistake or mechanical failure at some point. By then, he may be far enough ahead that it won't matter.

[Hawkmoon]

Hey Buddy!! you forgot bunsen!! :p :

D'oh! I knew I'd forgotten someone. :D

[wmcot]

I had no problem with Alonso's drive today. I have criticized him in the past for his going off-track and coming back on without giving a care about traffic, but there was none of that today. His battle with Nick and the Fisi were fun to watch and just hard racing!

I enjoyed the brief fight between Hamilton and Kubica, too. I wish that could have gone on longer!

Best of all was the Ferrari 1-2! This was the best race in Magny-Cours that I can remember. I guess that's a good way to go out if you must.

[ioan]

it was an agressive move on heidfeld admitedly, but he pulled it off without making a mess of it, and he did it fairly. It was Nick's choice to run off the track, cause he knew he would collide with him otherwise.


I assume that you didn't say the same about some of MS' moves before! :D

If it would have been Kubica in Nick's place Alonso might have have a nice DNF for that move.
So to give credit to the right person I say well done Nick Heidfeld for avoiding a 99,9% ready crash!

Given the car, Alonso should have been at least 4th at the end if it wasn't for his mistakes, that's all.

[Scuderia ferrari]

I think he is starting to crack now. Those desprate attempts to get past Heidfeld and Fisichella were showing it. I'm sure his performace will be better at the british grand prix though, hopefully for him, his gearbox will hold up.

His gearbox clearly lost faith in him!

[ArrowsFA1]

Given the car, Alonso should have been at least 4th at the end if it wasn't for his mistakes, that's all.
I think that ignores the reality of F1 today. As Felipe Massa said of the traffic:
"Even when you are not very close to the car in front, you lose so much downforce that you cannot follow the car and you just lose speed and that was the biggest problem I had today."
Alonso was in traffic most of the race so would have suffered exactly the same problem. The difference being he started 10th, not in pole position.

[ioan]

I think that ignores the reality of F1 today. As Felipe Massa said of the traffic:
Alonso was in traffic most of the race so would have suffered exactly the same problem. The difference being he started 10th, not in pole position.

He got ahead of NH and GF and than made errors that didn't allow him to keep the advantage after the pit stops, errors of his own.

I didn't see Felipe run wide several times yesterday, so let's leave him out of this and concentrate on Alonso's mess of a race. ;)

[F1boat]

I think that McLaren strategy was quite bad.

[ArrowsFA1]

I didn't see Felipe run wide several times yesterday, so let's leave him out of this and concentrate on Alonso's mess of a race. ;)
I'm not comparing their two races, just using Massa's comments to illustrate one of the major problems in F1 today, and one which clearly affected Alonso's race.

Of course the other factor was McLaren unreliability which meant he started 10th. Once that happened Alonso was on the back foot. He looked aggressive at the start, pushed hard, but ultimately lost chunks of time racing for position, particularly with Heidfeld who was doing a great job.

I don't call that "a mess". I call it a driver trying (and overdoing it on a couple of occasions) to make the most of a poor situation.

[OTA]

Alonso did a good drive today, he fought hard he avoided first lap collision and did pretty much all he could. As well he did a magnificent pass on Nick. Critics are off the mark again.
Good race by Rakka.

Cheers
David

[Flat.tyres]

I assume that you didn't say the same about some of MS' moves before! :D

If it would have been Kubica in Nick's place Alonso might have have a nice DNF for that move.
So to give credit to the right person I say well done Nick Heidfeld for avoiding a 99,9% ready crash!

Given the car, Alonso should have been at least 4th at the end if it wasn't for his mistakes, that's all.

I think this is a fair point. yes, it was exciting racing from Fred but he really needed to make up points and limit the damage after qualifying. The move though was VERY ambitious and would have resulted in a crash had Nick not jumped off track. therefore, a think Alonso was a bit out of order.

he was fast and agressive on track and needed to use the soft tyres in the first stint to try and get past as many cars as possible before they spread out to much.

7th was not disaster but a point more would have been a more acceptable result. well done though for keeping it on the island (mostly) and battleing up a few places.

[ioan]

Alonso did a good drive today, he fought hard he avoided first lap collision and did pretty much all he could. As well he did a magnificent pass on Nick. Critics are off the mark again.
Good race by Rakka.

Cheers
David

He started 10th, Trulli and Kovalainen were out of contention in a few hundred meters, so that was already 2 places gifted in the first lap.

He managed than to gain the incredible amount of 1 position in the rest of 69 laps while fighting against slower cars. What a "great" drive it was! :rolleyes:

He made a mess of it exactly like he did in Canada and Bahrain when he was not up front.

[ArrowsFA1]

He managed than to gain the incredible amount of 1 position in the rest of 69 laps while fighting against slower cars. What a "great" drive it was! :rolleyes:
Which again brings me back to the point about traffic which was clearly made by Felipe Massa. The likes of BMW may be "slower" than the McLaren, but to make clean & easy passes in F1 you need a car that is seconds per lap faster, particularly given the nature of the Magny Cours circuit.

[OTA]

Ioan the race I saw, Alonso fought hard in the start, but could not capitalize because of the first lap incident, then he overtook several drivers in his hunt and got as far as fith with 4th within reach. Then he stopped for his last stop and got a very large load of fuel that got him in trouble for the rest of the race.
Again a good race for me, and a joke by you, ain't life beautiful?
Cheers
David

[Big Ben]

He started 10th, Trulli and Kovalainen were out of contention in a few hundred meters, so that was already 2 places gifted in the first lap.

He managed than to gain the incredible amount of 1 position in the rest of 69 laps while fighting against slower cars. What a "great" drive it was! :rolleyes:

He made a mess of it exactly like he did in Canada and Bahrain when he was not up front.

Still better than Massa in Malaysia where he got 5th after he went off track and finished fifth.... or than MS last year in Turkey when he wasn't able to win one place for more than half of the race to go... and with plenty of opportunities to pass.. but you didn't see it that way did you?... I'm a McLaren fan and I'm subjective sometimes but man... you can leave your preferences behind for one second....

[ioan]

I'm a McLaren fan and I'm subjective sometimes but man...

Enough said.

[RaikkonenRules]

Whatever you say here, Alonso was the man today.

I don't see any driver out there who can be agressive and attacking like Alonso did and stay controling his car and stay on the road. He did a brilliant pass it was risky but fantastic.

Remember also that after the 2nd pits he was on hard tyres which was not helping his case to overtake the renault.

You say that he made mistakes, how many mistakes did Lewis? At least he made some mistakes because he was over the limit in attacking. So can you justify the mistakes done by the rokkie while he was not attacking any car? He lose one place at the start, was that a favour to Kimmi for a podium?! But no one did see that here.

Kimi at Japan 2005 was far more impressive and with no mistakes. Alonso made all of three succesful passing monuvers in the entire Grand Prix. Do you honistly think no one else could at least equal that.

[RaikkonenRules]

You are right he really is a bad driver , i guess i bought his 2 world championships trophys

Yes because his closest rivals kept either blowing up or having a bad car to begin the year with. I'm not saying he's a bad driver I'm just saying he's not as good as his career statistics suggest.


... He stated the race in 10th place ! what do you want him to do ?

At least finsih higher than Massa did from the back at Melbourne


at least he tried witch is more then i can say about LH , who went backward and finished more then half a minute behind the winner !!

Thanks to idiotic strategy


driving the best car on the grid.

Second to Ferrari more like that day.


I have never seen him pass anyone yet beside Kubica who whas in slower car.

That's because he's never had the oppertunity this season. You should have seen him in GP2 last year at Silverstone and Turkey.

.
I wish people would leave Alonso alone ...... After all he won his championships battling Shuy , not many driver could do that .

Any of the top 5 or 6 drivers could do that with the car Alonso had and the dire start and end of season bad luck Schuey had last year.

[ioan]

One thing is sure, not many double WDCs were trailing their rookie team mate by 14 points after 8 races.
Next race Felipe and Kimi might overtake him in the championship standings, given Ferrari's new found pace, to add to the nightmare.

[veeten]

of course for that to happen, LH would have to have a total loss of what has given him the top spot to date...

consistency.

8 straight races, and never lower than 3rd on the podium. Bringing the car home if he couldn't get the win. It all adds up to a point total that he and Ron can be pleased with, and the possibility that the 2-time WDC may be reduced to the role of 'helper' will stick deeply in Alonso's craw, especially if recent events play out yet again at Silverstone.

[Timber]

Yes because his closest rivals kept either blowing up or having a bad car to begin the year with. I'm not saying he's a bad driver I'm just saying he's not as good as his career statistics suggest.



At least finsih higher than Massa did from the back at Melbourne



Thanks to idiotic strategy



Second to Ferrari more like that day.



That's because he's never had the oppertunity this season. You should have seen him in GP2 last year at Silverstone and Turkey.

.

Any of the top 5 or 6 drivers could do that with the car Alonso had and the dire start and end of season bad luck Schuey had last year.

When LH win it is because he his a great driver but when Alonso win it is because he has the fastest car .....

[F1MAN2007]

Kimi at Japan 2005 was far more impressive and with no mistakes. Alonso made all of three succesful passing monuvers in the entire Grand Prix. Do you honistly think no one else could at least equal that.

I don't know how Lewis would do in such situation, but the only I can see there to equal Alonso is Kimmi if he has a strong and reliable car.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Alonso squeezed the most out of the dismal situation he happened to be in. That's what separates true World Champs from ordinary drivers. Champs do their best even when they have to struggle with an ill handling car in a heavy traffic. Ordinary guys just give up.

[Big Ben]

When LH win it is because he his a great driver but when Alonso win it is because he has the fastest car .....

You are trying to prove that milk is white... well.. not in here...

I don't know why some think that bashing another driver makes their fav better...

[SGWilko]

And his racing with Giancarlo looked amateurish. He tried the same move in the same corner to the same lack of success each time

I bet Ron rued no putting you in the car instead of Alonso. eh!

If the normal overtaking route is blocked, where elso you going to try and overtake at the hairpin???

[Big Ben]

Enough said.

So you agree with what I've said?

[Big Ben]

I want one of those who think that FA's race was a disaster because of his own mistakes to explain where and when he would have done better....

I understand that many say it was a stupid move to try to pass GF on the outside? what else was he supposed to do? feel free to clear that for me...

Some say he would have finished 4th ot 5th if he hadn't went off track... who can tell me how many times did he go off track and how much time did he lose? i hope for an answer to that question too...

[Flat.tyres]

I want one of those who think that FA's race was a disaster because of his own mistakes to explain where and when he would have done better....

I understand that many say it was a stupid move to try to pass GF on the outside? what else was he supposed to do? feel free to clear that for me...

Some say he would have finished 4th ot 5th if he hadn't went off track... who can tell me how many times did he go off track and how much time did he lose? i hope for an answer to that question too...

some say that black is white and white is black. Some say that if my Auntie had balls, she would be my Uncle.

I say that some people on here don't have a fecking clue about F1 but just like bashing and criticising everyone apart from their favourite team. I say those people lack objectivity and are a waste of time talking to.

You with me EU :D

[Big Ben]

come on people... two simple questions... I don't question your ability to actually do it better... I know you can't. the question is purely hypothetical.... what should FA have done to finish 4 th?

[F1MAN2007]

I think the people who like just bashing and criticising everyone apart from their favourite team they should learn from the drivers themselves what they are saying because, drivers know better than us in their business.

Please be objective and don't waste your time.

Here is what Massa said after the race and I think it applies to Alonso and others drivers who have been caught in the traffic.

Massa : "I think that, if you stay more than three laps behind a car, it's not normal. Okay, I was not completely on the rear wing of the car, but enough for them to see me in the mirrors.

"With the cars we have now, sometimes when you start to get close, you start to lose downforce, so you cannot get close enough to pass the car. But we are leading and they are being lapped, so they need to let us by."

Source :http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~150543~pid~1.htm

Don't you think he is right?

Massa agree that even if he was not in the wing of the rear car ahead, but it was enough for the driver ahead to see him in the mirror and let him go.

So Imagine what happened to Alonso? For how many laps he was perfectly in the rear wing of Hedifeld and Giancarlo? This is not to mention other drivers, like Kimmi and Alonso again in Canada,etc.

But what is suprise, is that last year in Hungry GP, Alonso was penalised for blocking Schumi in his Qual. lap while schumi was far (around more than 500 m) from Alonso. But today, it seems alowed?!

I think the overtaking rule or the rule regarding drivers to give a way to the following car when he see it in his mirror, should be revised.

For me, if someone is close to you and in your rear wing for more than 2 laps, then you should consider yourself laped and give a way to the following car other than blocking him and sometimes pushing him out. It is not fair.

Alonso didn't make mistake just for making mistake, it is because loosing downforce frome Heid's car

[F1MAN2007]

Some say he would have finished 4th ot 5th if he hadn't went off track... who can tell me how many times did he go off track and how much time did he lose? i hope for an answer to that question too...

Eu, I agree in what you have said.

Just want to tell some people here that whatever the mistake they can single out from Alonso, it was due from losing downforce because of being close or sometimes perfectly in the wing of GF and Heid's car.

In my previous post, Massa cleared about this

What GF did it was the same thing Massa did in Spain GP.

So what Alonso did was perfect and credit to him for taking risk with that spectacular pass. At least he showed how agressive he is.

[ioan]

come on people... two simple questions... I don't question your ability to actually do it better... I know you can't. the question is purely hypothetical.... what should FA have done to finish 4 th?

Drive consistently fast.
He was fast, the 4th fastest lap time is his. But he also did lap in the 1.19 s for a few laps after his pitstops and gave NH and GF the chance to be in front.

[Big Ben]

Drive consistently fast.
He was fast, the 4th fastest lap time is his. But he also did lap in the 1.19 s for a few laps after his pitstops and gave NH and GF the chance to be in front.

When you drive behind another car you go as fast as the other one does... at best... FA spent some laps behind NH and GF so he lost some time there... and when he had a clear track he was heavy... every time he had a light car to do some decent times he had someone in front of him taking care of that

I've seen him doing some 1.18 laps...not so many as to be the cause of not finishing ahead of NH though

P.S. your point is correct but it's easier said than done. It's hard to push it to the limit the entire race and not make any mistake

[kalasend]

If Nick hadden't shortcutted the chichane they would definately have crashed. Yes real good by Alonso.

Aggressive move by FA indeed. But it's much better than previous instances of him going off and getting back on the track blindly.

[ioan]

P.S. your point is correct but it's easier said than done. It's hard to push it to the limit the entire race and not make any mistake

I know it is not easy, but he is the WDC so he should do it better than most of the rest.

All I know is that he doesn't keep a cool head when not out in front, he just starts pushing to hard and overdoing it. I'm not saying he is not good, he surely is one good driver, but this last race he didn't manage what he was supposed to.

[F1MAN2007]

I know it is not easy, but he is the WDC so he should do it better than most of the rest.

All I know is that he doesn't keep a cool head when not out in front, he just starts pushing to hard and overdoing it. I'm not saying he is not good, he surely is one good driver, but this last race he didn't manage what he was supposed to.

At least he is doing it fairly not like the Master Cheater! :D

[Timber]

I know it is not easy, but he is the WDC so he should do it better than most of the rest.

All I know is that he doesn't keep a cool head when not out in front, he just starts pushing to hard and overdoing it. I'm not saying he is not good, he surely is one good driver, but this last race he didn't manage what he was supposed to.

i guess you do not like Alonso ...... His 2 Titles were just luck and he had the better car ....... LH has the better car now , not a problem since the beginning of the season , lets wait and see who is the Champion at the end , shall we !!!

[ioan]

At least he is doing it fairly not like the Master Cheater! :D


i guess you do not like Alonso ...... His 2 Titles were just luck and he had the better car ....... LH has the better car now , not a problem since the beginning of the season , lets wait and see who is the Champion at the end , shall we !!!
3rd July 2007 00:44

If this is your way of defending your fave driver than I think I have nothing to add to the discussion.

[Hawkmoon]

I want one of those who think that FA's race was a disaster because of his own mistakes to explain where and when he would have done better....

I understand that many say it was a stupid move to try to pass GF on the outside? what else was he supposed to do? feel free to clear that for me...

Some say he would have finished 4th ot 5th if he hadn't went off track... who can tell me how many times did he go off track and how much time did he lose? i hope for an answer to that question too...

Well, when you consider that he ended up behind Heidfeld and Fisichella after the second stops when he was in front of them before the second stops, I'd say it wasn't a great race from the Spaniard. The biggest mistake he made was outbreaking himself in one of his first attacks on Heidfeld. If he makes that move stick, then I'm sure he finishes 4th or 5th.

It was entertaining, no doubt, but I think Alonso won't have too many fond memories from the weekend.

[Big Ben]

Well, when you consider that he ended up behind Heidfeld and Fisichella after the second stops when he was in front of them before the second stops, I'd say it wasn't a great race from the Spaniard. The biggest mistake he made was outbreaking himself in one of his first attacks on Heidfeld. If he makes that move stick, then I'm sure he finishes 4th or 5th.

It was entertaining, no doubt, but I think Alonso won't have too many fond memories from the weekend.

well, I don't know why people say that... Many say FA's failed attempts to overtake were mistakes... He didn't lose time there... He was right behind NH or GF immediately after... I still think that the 4th place was out of reach... the fifth hard to get and needed some considerable help from NH (who had a good race again)...

[ojciec dyrektor]

I know it is not easy, but he is the WDC so he should do it better than most of the rest.

All I know is that he doesn't keep a cool head when not out in front, he just starts pushing to hard and overdoing it. I'm not saying he is not good, he surely is one good driver, but this last race he didn't manage what he was supposed to.

In what world are You living?
Please tell me, which of the WDC kept a cool head when wasn't in front?

[RaikkonenRules]

In what world are You living?
Please tell me, which of the WDC kept a cool head when wasn't in front?

Hakkinen, Schumacher. And yes he's not a WDC but Kimi does too. And I'm sure Lewis will be the same.

[Big Ben]

Hakkinen, Schumacher. And yes he's not a WDC but Kimi does too. And I'm sure Lewis will be the same.

Hakkinen was my fav driver but you are wrong again.... He made mistakes too... He used to driver well under pressure but he made stupid mistakes while having a comfortable lead....

as for schumacher... he caved under pressure too... Australia, Turkey and Hungary 2006... just to mention the most recent ones

[ojciec dyrektor]

Hakkinen, Schumacher. And yes he's not a WDC but Kimi does too. And I'm sure Lewis will be the same.

:D Hakkinen and Schumacher :D You must be joking :D

[ioan]

:D Hakkinen and Schumacher :D You must be joking :D

No he isn't, but you clearly are. I just hope that you knew that F1 exists before Kubica drove for Sauber BMW, but given your comments I highly doubt it.

[Mark]

Less of the personal please.

[ioan]

Hakkinen was my fav driver but you are wrong again.... He made mistakes too... He used to driver well under pressure but he made stupid mistakes while having a comfortable lead....

It means he was right, not wrong.


as for schumacher... he caved under pressure too... Australia, Turkey and Hungary 2006... just to mention the most recent ones

Pressure, from whom?
I'm still to remember a race where MS started at the back or 10th and only managed to improve 1 place (not including the ones that crashed in front of him), while driving the 2nd fastest car on the track.

[Big Ben]

Pressure, from whom?
I'm still to remember a race where MS started at the back or 10th and only managed to improve 1 place (not including the ones that crashed in front of him), while driving the 2nd fastest car on the track.

From Alonso.

I recall races where he started last and didn't finish at all... while having the second fastest car... because of his own mistake... by the way Alonso didn't finish the race 9th. go check that again!

[Flat.tyres]

Pressure, from whom?
I'm still to remember a race where MS started at the back or 10th and only managed to improve 1 place (not including the ones that crashed in front of him), while driving the 2nd fastest car on the track.

well, we could go to last year in Malay where he qualified 4th and finished 6th. Thats going backwards. Or the year before when in Malay again he Qualified 13th and only made it up to 7th as well. dont tell me that there is a difference between 10 and 13th because it is no where the sort of problem to overcome that getting from 7th to 6th is. or shall we discuss Monaco that year?

bit of objectivity? MS wasnt a god and trying to rubbish everyone else makes you look silly.

[gm99]

The problem with Schumacher and Hakkinen was that they didn't keep a cool head when they WERE in front (Schuey stuffing it into the wall [and Damon Hill] at Adelaide in 1994, Montreal in 1999, Monaco in 2006 ;) - Hakkinen losing it under downshifting for the chicane at Monza in 1998). And unlike Alonso on Sunday, they didn't take ANY points away from it all.

But in any case, here's the real reason FA might not have given it his all on Sunday: http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~150594.htm

Maybe that tragic circumstance will bring the stupid Alonso bashing - at least on this thread- to an end for a while...

[ioan]

...dont tell me that there is a difference between 10 and 13th ...

Actually there is a difference.


bit of objectivity? MS wasnt a god ...

Who said he was one? :rolleyes:

[Flat.tyres]

The problem with Schumacher and Hakkinen was that they didn't keep a cool head when they WERE in front (Schuey stuffing it into the wall [and Damon Hill] at Adelaide in 1994, Montreal in 1999, Monaco in 2006 ;) - Hakkinen losing it under downshifting for the chicane at Monza in 1998). And unlike Alonso on Sunday, they didn't take ANY points away from it all.

But in any case, here's the real reason FA might not have given it his all on Sunday: http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~150594.htm (http://www.crash.net/news_view%7Ecid%7E1%7Eid%7E150594.htm)

Maybe that tragic circumstance will bring the stupid Alonso bashing - at least on this thread- to an end for a while...

very sad news but im sure some people will just say hes making excuses. :(

[RaikkonenRules]

well, we could go to last year in Malay where he qualified 4th and finished 6th. Thats going backwards. Or the year before when in Malay again he Qualified 13th and only made it up to 7th as well. dont tell me that there is a difference between 10 and 13th because it is no where the sort of problem to overcome that getting from 7th to 6th is. or shall we discuss Monaco that year?

bit of objectivity? MS wasnt a god and trying to rubbish everyone else makes you look silly.

Ferrari didn't even have the 2nd best car at either of those races. 2005 Ferrari were on about the same pace as Sauber. 2006 in that perticuler race Ferrari were slower than Renault, McLaren and Honda.

[Timber]

If this is your way of defending your fave driver than I think I have nothing to add to the discussion.

Alonso does NOT need me to defend him , his records speaks ........

[ojciec dyrektor]

No he isn't, but you clearly are. I just hope that you knew that F1 exists before Kubica drove for Sauber BMW, but given your comments I highly doubt it.

1. I'm interested in F1 for about 15-18 years.
2. I can be objective. Yes I like Robert, but I can tell when he made mistake. I like Mika, and I would never say he didn't make stupid mistakes.
3. I never measure anybody. Especially person that I don't know.

If Michael and Mika was so cool then what about posts gm99, Flat.tyres or eu? I know, that were different situations.

Grow up man.

[Hawkmoon]

Just to play devil's advocate here....

Alonso finished 7th after starting 10th. However the only guy who started ahead of him that he actually beat was Rosberg. Alonso was gifted two places when Trulli took himself and Kovalainen, both of whom started ahead of him, out in turn 1.

;)

[ioan]

Just to play devil's advocate here....

Alonso finished 7th after starting 10th. However the only guy who started ahead of him that he actually beat was Rosberg. Alonso was gifted two places when Trulli took himself and Kovalainen, both of whom started ahead of him, out in turn 1.

;)

Man, you can't be serious, didn't you see the race, Fernando was trying so hard! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Man, you can't be serious, didn't you see the race, Fernando was trying so hard! ;)

I have to agree with you here ioan; all the attention was on Fernando trying his hardest to get by Heidfeld and, of course, Heidfeld telling him to bugger off. I just wonder whether Fernando might have ruined his tyres trying so hard and following the BMW so close for so many laps.

[ioan]

I just wonder whether Fernando might have ruined his tyres trying so hard and following the BMW so close for so many laps.

Well in that case it was only his own fault! :D

[Valve Bounce]

Well in that case it was only his own fault! :D

Well, you can't blame it on the mice now, can you? :p :

[ioan]

Well, you can't blame it on the mice now, can you? :p :

Good one! ;)

[Big Ben]

Just to play devil's advocate here....

Alonso finished 7th after starting 10th. However the only guy who started ahead of him that he actually beat was Rosberg. Alonso was gifted two places when Trulli took himself and Kovalainen, both of whom started ahead of him, out in turn 1.

;)

:laugh:
You are a generous man! :laugh: with such an advocate who needs a prosecutor :laugh:

[F1boat]

The problem with Schumacher and Hakkinen was that they didn't keep a cool head when they WERE in front (Schuey stuffing it into the wall [and Damon Hill] at Adelaide in 1994, Montreal in 1999, Monaco in 2006 ;) - Hakkinen losing it under downshifting for the chicane at Monza in 1998). And unlike Alonso on Sunday, they didn't take ANY points away from it all.

But in any case, here's the real reason FA might not have given it his all on Sunday: http://www.crash.net/news_view~cid~1~id~150594.htm

Maybe that tragic circumstance will bring the stupid Alonso bashing - at least on this thread- to an end for a while...

Very sad, poor Fernando

[jso1985]

I do think that without mistakes Alonso could have finished 4th, so finishing only 7th is certainly his fault, but he's not the only WDC who has made mistakes, so still don't why the need of around 50 posts made my MS fans trying to prove Alonso is one of the worst drivesr in the grid...

[Big Ben]

so still don't why the need of around 50 posts made my MS fans trying to prove Alonso is one of the worst drivesr in the grid...

because this... in a very weird way proves he was just lucky to beat MS... The same attitude you can see against drivers like JV... so we will see this for a while...

[ioan]

...trying to prove Alonso is one of the worst drivesr in the grid...

That certainly isn't the point of all this. :rolleyes:
Do you imagine me believing that Albers is a better driver than Alonso?!

It's only that some say it was a good drive which I disagree with for the reasons I already disclosed. That's all.

[jso1985]

I do imagine you labelling Alonso as just another lucky driver!

But I agree with your point, he didn't do a good drive

[ioan]

I do imagine you labelling Alonso as just another lucky driver!

But I agree with your point, he didn't do a good drive

I agree with both of your points! ;)
But he's also good.

[Valve Bounce]

That certainly isn't the point of all this. :rolleyes:
Do you imagine me believing that Albers is a better driver than Alonso?!



YES!! :p :

[Kbrown]

This is a wonderful day for me.... I have been saying Alonso is minorly rubbish when in a sticky situation for years.

Plus anyone who ever supported Schumacher must know how the Alonso fans are going atm... lol such a fickle bunch. Your all like Australians, you praise people until they get to the top and then bash the B@stards when they get there.

But yeah sorry Alonso was sloppy in that race but I would say mainly because he was a desperate man.... and that F1 cars dont respond to sitting behind each other in any capacity.

[Kbrown]

Okay hes not actually rubbish, hes just coming apart at the seams a little atm.

I just thought seeing as we motorsport fans loooove to bash the cr@p out of our heros in formula 1 when they get to the top, and now that the Schuey, Villenuve and co bashing threads are gone.... feel free to get stuck into Alonso and his supposed second rate driving right here.

French Grand Prix was looking a bit 2004-ish to me when Trulli effectivly kicked his @ss for the first part of the year. Alonso doesnt appear to compute being beaten by his team mate does he?

[Ranger]

I just thought seeing as we motorsport fans loooove to bash the cr@p out of our heros in formula 1 when they get to the top, and now that the Schuey, Villenuve and co bashing threads are gone.... feel free to get stuck into Alonso and his supposed second rate driving right here.

...Mate, I want you to count how many Alonso bashing threads there are over the first 2 page of this subforum. There's quite enough already.

[f1rocks]

...Mate, I want you to count how many Alonso bashing threads there are over the first 2 page of this subforum. There's quite enough already.

Alonso definitely is not the most likeable driver out there. I read that he was whining that Lewis will be favored in Silverstone as that makes the team look better. Excuses already....

[Ranger]

Alonso definitely is not the most likeable driver out there. I read that he was whining that Lewis will be favored in Silverstone as that makes the team look better. Excuses already....

I suppose you're reading that Planet F1 (http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2463840,00.html) story. They make it seem like he is whining when it pretty much simple reasoning. Look at the last line:


"The team wanted me to win in Barcelona and they will want Hamilton to win at Silverstone," he concluded.

I see that as reason, not excuse.

Now I won't contribute to this thread any more as I'm sure it will go around in circles and I'll be repeating myself, like in the other 5 or so recent Alonso bashing threads.

[f1rocks]

I suppose you're reading that Planet F1 (http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2463840,00.html) story. They make it seem like he is whining when it pretty much simple reasoning. Look at the last line:



I see that as reason, not excuse.

Now I won't contribute to this thread any more as I'm sure it will go around in circles and I'll be repeating myself, like in the other 5 or so recent Alonso bashing threads.

You ever wondered why there are so many Alonso bashing threads recently...Getting schooled by a rookie was not in his plans when he joined Mclaren... :D

[Kbrown]

lol you make a good point but we need a bashing thread I think like the Schumacher one that was THE bashing thread! The one stop shop if you will.

We internet forumers are like Australians. We praise people until they get to the top and then slag them until they fall. People who were going on about how wonderful Alonso was when he was becoming the best are now slagging the guy because Hamilton is handing his @ss to him on a plate.

Personally I think Alonso is above average. If anything I hope to remember him for being in the right team at the right time. Or perhaps I will remember him for being the number two driver..... like a Barrichello or a Irvine or something.

Haha maybe this is where all the old Schuey fans should come out of their retired woodwork and just slag the **** out of him for no reason.... that would give this thread the same sanity as the old Schuey one used to have.

God its fun though.

[raikk]

I don't like bashing threads of any driver really..even the Schumacher bashing thread (as much as I don't like the guy he is only human) I just don't think it's fair to the driver ... You don't see bashing threads in other series really just formula 1.. Just because drivers are in formula 1 doesnt give us a right to ridicule them to the fullest extent..

[Valve Bounce]

"The team wanted me to win in Barcelona and they will want Hamilton to win at Silverstone," he concluded.

I hope this comes off - for the sake of my pickems :)

[Valve Bounce]

I could not think of a more sticky situation than when he was shoehorned into that Minardi without more than a shakedown run, and he managed to qualify that thing at Albert Park.

Alonso is a very very good driver - a great driver. And those guys who like to bash him are simply jealous of his achievements over their favourite driver.

I am an Aussi, and I think Fernando is just a super driver.
I also think that Kimi is a Super driver too.
I also think that Lewis Hamilton is something special.

So if you guys want something positive, you've got it.

[Roamy]

I don't like bashing threads of any driver really..even the Schumacher bashing thread (as much as I don't like the guy he is only human) I just don't think it's fair to the driver ... You don't see bashing threads in other series really just formula 1.. Just because drivers are in formula 1 doesnt give us a right to ridicule them to the fullest extent..

raikk it is called freedom of speech - therefore bash anyone as much as you like. But bashing alonso is tough because he really hasn't enough bad background to bash much. Altough he needs to STFU and drive the car. Hell I hope Kimi wins Silverstone - ****s 3 girls and drinks a half of keg on guiness. Now thats a hero!!

[Valve Bounce]

raikk it is called freedom of speech - therefore bash anyone as much as you like. But bashing alonso is tough because he really hasn't enough bad background to bash much. Altough he needs to STFU and drive the car. Hell I hope Kimi wins Silverstone - ****s 3 girls and drinks a half of keg on guiness. Now thats a hero!!


..................or eats 67 hot dogs in 12 minutes. :eek:

[Roamy]

naw he couldn't pass weight check then. Man I can barely eat one without puking.

[Cozzie]

Why bash a driver who is doing his best? Its no different to bashing Hamilton, Sutil, Fisi or any other driver. I don't know why you need to be so down on someone is doing the best they can do at the moment week in, week out. Unless its Kimi of course! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Think of it this way: these guys are racing in F1 - we aint. :(

[truefan72]

There is a fine line between bashing and expressing discontent with a driver's comments and actions. Alonso, more than any opther driver of recent note has given the press, media, fans and general audience enough fodder to evoke strong reactions since the start of the season. If it were fisi instead of LH and the situation was the same, Alonso would still make the same comments andfeel the same pressure. He did it last year at Renault when things weren't going his way, despite having an entire team and car built around him.

His essential problem is that he isnt very good when faced with challenges. Instead of fighting through it and working twice hhas hard, he tends to blame everyone and everything around him. Not a single person can question his desire to win but his attituted needs adjusting and he has to learn how to channel his frustrations and adversity into a positive direction. When he learns how to do that, he will then enter the pantheon opf trully great drivers. Until then he will come across as a somewhat spoiled and tempestrous driver who had two great years abd nothing more.

[ArrowsFA1]

His essential problem is that he isnt very good when faced with challenges.
I simply do not understand this comment. What bigger challenge is there than to win the F1 World Championship? Alonso's done that twice, against very strong opposition. Winning, let alone successfully defending, a WDC brings extraordinary pressure that none of us here have experienced.

So Alonso perhaps hasn't dealt with that pressure as well as some think he could have done. He has two titles, his critics have how many exactly?

[Flat.tyres]

Okay hes not actually rubbish, hes just coming apart at the seams a little atm.

I just thought seeing as we motorsport fans loooove to bash the cr@p out of our heros in formula 1 when they get to the top, and now that the Schuey, Villenuve and co bashing threads are gone.... feel free to get stuck into Alonso and his supposed second rate driving right here.

French Grand Prix was looking a bit 2004-ish to me when Trulli effectivly kicked his @ss for the first part of the year. Alonso doesnt appear to compute being beaten by his team mate does he?

:laugh:

bash away boys, bash away. It is great for Alonso that so many here feel the need to bash a driver as he is obviously in the forefront of your minds.

results speak for themselves. Alonso rightfully took Schumachers crown as he blitzed past Michael twice and drove him to retirement. He's sitting in 2nd place this year and who's to say he wont go one better and he's fighting for his points rather than having them gifted to him by his team mate.

I think Alonso can be sulky and tempremental but his quality and ability speaks for itself. by dissing his achievements people make themselves look stupid.

[ioan]

I am an Aussi, and I think Fernando is just a super driver.

And your grandma was Spanish! Gotcha! :D

[Valve Bounce]

And your grandma was Spanish! Gotcha! :D

Not only that - my grandfather was an officer in the Portuguese Navy - we had a picture of him in uniform above the mantle; he had red hair. All this is true.

Me, I'm an Aussi because I came here to study, married an Aussi and remained here and have a family here.

Nothing exciting in all that. If you want to know more, you'll have to PM me.

[ioan]

Not only that - my grandfather was an officer in the Portuguese Navy - we had a picture of him in uniform above the mantle; he had red hair. All this is true.

Me, I'm an Aussi because I came here to study, married an Aussi and remained here and have a family here.

Nothing exciting in all that. If you want to know more, you'll have to PM me.

What about your grandparents, and their grandparents and so on...? :D
Just kidding. :p :

[markabilly]

All you got to do is set up the car so that it does not suit his driving style, not much but just enough.

And watch video of FA drivng the renault. Upon entry, always the massive move with the wheel.

Driving the mcLaren, he does not make the same moves at all with the wheel.

And the problem for the final Q? a loose wire---oh yeah, sure --

For McLaren, which is more newsworthy: the spaniard FA winning a third WC, or a BRITISH ROOKIE groomed and trained by ron dennis, winning a world championship, a "true brit" winning a wc last occurrred when? And a true rookie winning the world championship last occurred when?

(hint Hill was always claimed he was Irish, and so he don't count. Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark were Scots--a superior race if ever, and they do not count either, as they always regarded themselves as Scots, first and last)

Well duh, me thinks that there may be some more "loose wires" in the future of FA's tranny

[markabilly]

And just look at Ralfie, even toyota has admitted they have failed to get the car suited to his drivng style


And FA beating micheal? that demostrates very rare talent that Hamilton and the others do not have---the shame is that if FA were at Ferrari, then FA might have a chance.

But at McLAren, weeeelellle now boys, just expect a few more loose wires, not too many, cause they would love a one-two drivers champ to to go with their manufacturer cup.

(and eating at the employee's canteen got nuthin to do with it)

[ojciec dyrektor]

Alonso said today:
"I am not going to have an advantage even on the circuits that I am better at, because all of my information passes straight to him."
"So that advantage has disappeared. Recovering points is very complicated when alongside you there is a clone."

I wonder how good would be Hamilton without Alonsos data.

[ioan]

Alonso said today:
"I am not going to have an advantage even on the circuits that I am better at, because all of my information passes straight to him."
"So that advantage has disappeared. Recovering points is very complicated when alongside you there is a clone."

I wonder how good would be Hamilton without Alonsos data.

I guess we won't find out that one.
I'm beginning to feel bad for him too (and I never thought I would say that).

[F1boat]

McLaren did the same with Prost in 1988. Alonso should have never joined the wicked team of Ron Dennis. They have decided to make Hamilton champion and FIA is happy about that, because he is young and marketable.
A perfect replacement for a gone legend.
F-1 is no better than WWF wrestling.

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe Alonso should get his own clone and get all the information from Hamilton. That way, he get's all the better information.

[F1boat]

It is very sad to see how a great champion is humiliated, because all people, including some fans, want to see a driver to win only because he is young and black :(

[ojciec dyrektor]

Maybe rumours about Renault 2008 lineup (Alonso-Button) aren't impossible? ;)

[F1boat]

I hope so. Alonso deserves better and Hamilton needs to make his own setup. We'll see whether he is the "British Senna" or the new JV.

[Valve Bounce]

It is very sad to see how a great champion is humiliated, because all people, including some fans, want to see a driver to win only because he is young and black :(


This is a ridiculous assertion. Do you have any real evidence of this or are you just relying on a journalist friend whom you cannot name for reasons of anonimity?

[F1boat]

"Alonso said today:
"I am not going to have an advantage even on the circuits that I am better at, because all of my information passes straight to him."
"So that advantage has disappeared. Recovering points is very complicated when alongside you there is a clone."

So McLaren gives the setup of Alonso to Hamilton. If Alonso disagrees, it shouldn't be so.
What more evidence do you want? It is obvious that McLaren are always, clear, their engineer never steal info from other teams, if they do, Ron never knows anything and McLaren drivers are always equal, Prost, Montoya and Alonso are just crybabies.
Oh, yeah. I am sorry that I dared to doubt the mightly British Shumacher - Lewis Hamilton. After all, as Mad Max said:
"It is great for any sport. It broadens the appeal. It is good. We are delighted and we just hope he can keep it up."
And it rocks TV ratings.

[F1MAN2007]

Alonso said today:
"I am not going to have an advantage even on the circuits that I am better at, because all of my information passes straight to him."
"So that advantage has disappeared. Recovering points is very complicated when alongside you there is a clone."

I wonder how good would be Hamilton without Alonsos data.


I agree with you mate!!!

[ojciec dyrektor]

What more evidence do you want? It is obvious that McLaren are always, clear, their engineer never steal info from other teams, if they do, Ron never knows anything (...)

That's abuse.

[F1boat]

That's abuse.

I didn't mean it to be abuse, I am just irritated. If IT IS abuse, I really apologize to all fans here, to Arrows, Pino and the mods.

[F1MAN2007]

I don't see McLaren having the same combo drivers next year. Alonso doesn't have a place in there if they escape the espionage case as well

As long as Lewis will continue to use Alonso's data, never Alonso will beat him. It is impossible. Lewis is a best driver of course, but he has to know how to set up his car not relaying to Alonso's data.

Yesterday he had problem in Q1 and Q2 where he was 4th. But after geting Alonso's data he made a quickest lap and he was the last to cross the line!

McLaren can't stop this and let him setting up his car before they are sure he has won the title.

[F1boat]

I don't see McLaren having the same combo drivers next year. Alonso doesn't have a place in there if they escape the espionage case as well

As long as Lewis will continue to use Alonso's data, never Alonso will beat him. It is impossible. Lewis is a best driver of course, but he has to know how to set up his car not relaying to Alonso's data.

Yesterday he had problem in Q1 and Q2 where he was 4th. But after geting Alonso's data he made a quickest lap and he was the last to cross the line!

McLaren can't stop this and let him setting up his car before they are sure he has won the title.
And thats what I don't like.
IMo Alonso is the best driver here and without his experience in McLaren, Hamilton would be no better than Heiki Kovalainen.
Well, at least not THAT better ;) I know that Lewis is very special. I just am annoyed, because IMo Fred is not treated fairly.

[Zico]

Nothing new here, while I feel sorry for FA its a poor excuse because ALL the teams drivers share telemetry and data as its a team decision, is in the best interest of the team... only MS is rumoured to have kept data from his team mate after he proved quicker on one practice session..

[F1boat]

I am not sure that Montoya and Rakka shared info.

[F1MAN2007]

And thats what I don't like.
IMo Alonso is the best driver here and without his experience in McLaren, Hamilton would be no better than Heiki Kovalainen.
Well, at least not THAT better ;) I know that Lewis is very special. I just am annoyed, because IMo Fred is not treated fairly.


That is the same feeling I have man? IMo Alonso. Alonso is ignored in there and he has to cope with it until the end of this year. I would wish to see him going back in Renault even if they may not be on top this time but next year it is promissing.

And Mclaren has made a mistake which they will regret for years.

So I understand Alonso making mistakes, he is frustrated and he is not happy. So no great result he can achieve.

Like now, I am feud up with the ITV coz they are talking only Lewis no one else?! I hate this. By the way, others are monkeys and no need to talk about them

[Zico]

I am not sure that Montoya and Rakka shared info.

Its possible... I suppose it would be a clause to include in a contract, something FA perhaps thought wouldnt matter, hes reaping the whirlwind now. I do feel sorry for him.

FA has hinted he's on a heavier Fuel load and also that the team would like Lewis to win in GB and himself at Barcelona, where the fuel load scenario would have been in reverse, makes sense and seems fair to me. ??

[F1boat]

Well, it is the British GP in British Tv with British driver on Pole.

[Zico]

Well, it is the British GP in British Tv with British driver on Pole.


My point exactly..

[gm99]

I wonder if we will be getting a Massa-bashing thread for his inability to pass Kubica (and earlier, Fisichella) in spite of having clearly the faster car - or are such threads reserved for two-times world champions only?

[F1boat]

Slide stopped.

[ioan]

I wonder if we will be getting a Massa-bashing thread for his inability to pass Kubica (and earlier, Fisichella) in spite of having clearly the faster car - or are such threads reserved for two-times world champions only?

22nd to 5th! Are you comparing that with 10th to 7th (with 2 cars out infront in the first corner!)???
I mean you must be blind at least.

[Big Ben]

I am not sure that Montoya and Rakka shared info.

I don´t know if Rakka had any info to share

[veeten]

Slide stopped.

and necessesary, too. Even though it's 2 points, it's in the right direction. With Kimi closing fast, it gets nothing but interesting.

The real test of a WDC is not when you're leading by miles, but when the competition is practically breathing down your neck. :eek:

The next 7 races will give us the answer.

[gm99]

22nd to 5th! Are you comparing that with 10th to 7th (with 2 cars out infront in the first corner!)???
I mean you must be blind at least.

Yep, and deaf and dumb as well...

[F1boat]

and necessesary, too. Even though it's 2 points, it's in the right direction. With Kimi closing fast, it gets nothing but interesting.

The real test of a WDC is not when you're leading by miles, but when the competition is practically breathing down your neck. :eek:

The next 7 races will give us the answer.

It is a good championship :)

[donKey jote]

I'm beginning to feel bad for him too (and I never thought I would say that).

ioan you just got yourself a big donkey hug for that (and I never thought I would say that) :p :
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[ojciec dyrektor]

and necessesary, too. Even though it's 2 points, it's in the right direction. With Kimi closing fast, it gets nothing but interesting.

The real test of a WDC is not when you're leading by miles, but when the competition is practically breathing down your neck. :eek:

The next 7 races will give us the answer.

Eight I think.

[ioan]

ioan you just got yourself a big donkey hug for that (and I never thought I would say that) :p :
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Weird things happen! ;)