Is there a problem with passing yet?

[RGM Fan]

I realize a lot of IRL fans knock on CC for supposedly being parades where one driver wins all the time. But 241 laps of 250? That marks the third race in a row where there was not a single pass for the lead. Outside of the Indy 500 I think there have been two on-track passes for the lead this year.

[NickFalzone]

Are you trolling?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Are you trolling?

We have found that RGM is just full of sunshine and happiness and ignore most of his silliness.

[RGM Fan]

We have found that RGM is just full of sunshine and happiness and ignore most of his silliness.

So someone pulled of a pass of the leader at Texas, Iowa or Richmond? I missed that? How could I?

I thought the IRL held an hour and half long parade in Viriginia tonight, my bad, it was really a race with lots of cars able to pass each other. Sorry.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

So someone pulled of a pass of the leader at Texas, Iowa or Richmond? I missed that? How could I?

I thought the IRL held an hour and half long parade in Viriginia tonight, my bad, it was really a race with lots of cars able to pass each other. Sorry.

Someone like you will NEVER be happy with the IRL so I do not understand why you watch it or feel the need to exert the effort to convince people it's horrible.

Is that your goal in life to turn as many people off to the IRL as possible ? If it is, it certainly is a noble pursuit. Good on ya mate !

So what if there was no passing ??? To an IRL FAN, seeing drivers they care about do what they do and see how they finish IS entertainment. I know Darren, Sarah, and Buddy have a tough go of it but I care that they do well and see how they progress. Buddy did a great job tonight. That's entertainment.

Seeing a guy like Dario dominate ??? THAT's ENTERTAINMENT...

[Wilf]

So someone pulled of a pass of the leader at Texas, Iowa or Richmond? I missed that? How could I?

I thought the IRL held an hour and half long parade in Viriginia tonight, my bad, it was really a race with lots of cars able to pass each other. Sorry.

And then they shake their heads at why there is so little participation in the IndyCar forum. Trolls like this could at least make sure of their FACTS. For example there were 16 lead changes at Texas. How could he miss that; my guess is that facts don't matter much to him but sticking and twisting; now, there's an honorable avocation.

[RGM Fan]

So what if there was no passing ??? To an IRL FAN, seeing drivers they care about do what they do and see how they finish IS entertainment. I know Darren, Sarah, and Buddy have a tough go of it but I care that they do well and see how they progress. Buddy did a great job tonight. That's entertainment.

Seeing a guy like Dario dominate ??? THAT's ENTERTAINMENT...

What the H E Double hockey sticks? How much Kool Aide have you drank? Really? A race without passing is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad and really bad. If you think a race where a guy can run in the polesitter's shadow and never come close to passing him is a good race, then you are a massive IRL homer, and nothing you say holds any weight.

Dario didn't dominate the race, he just got to the bottom first. Whoever was the pole sitter more than likely was going to win the race. After Iowa I thought that obvious to anyone.

Basically if I was driving an IRL race, got the front at a realtively competitive speed, no one would be able to pass me. Really, its that bad.

[RGM Fan]

And then they shake their heads at why there is so little participation in the IndyCar forum. Trolls like this could at least make sure of their FACTS. For example there were 16 lead changes at Texas. How could he miss that; my guess is that facts don't matter much to him but sticking and twisting; now, there's an honorable avocation.

Out of those 16 lead changes how many of them happened because of green flag pit stops?

Answer: Every one but one.

[indycool]

Well, RGM, we'll make a note that you aren't happy with the IRL.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

AND I REPEAT AGAIN ..... to all the RGM's in this world ....

Someone like you will NEVER be happy with the IRL so I do not understand why you watch it or feel the need to exert the effort to convince people it's horrible. WHY DO YOU FEEL THE NEED TO DO THIS ?????? WHY ??? WHY??? WHY??? DON'T WATCH THE BLOODY SERIES IF IT'S SO HORRIBLE AND UNPALATABLE FOR YOU !!!!

Is that your goal in life to turn as many people off to the IRL as possible ? If it is, it certainly is a noble pursuit. Good on ya mate !


SHEEEEEEESH !!!!

peace and love <> peace and love <> peace and love

[ChicagocrewIRL]

ok RGM .... I give in !!! you are absolutely right !!! The IRL SUCKS !!! I'm not watching it anymore !!!!!!! Happy ????

I should take my own advice and just IGNORE your silliness. HAHA oh but I took the bait of this trolling expedition of yours. Shame on me .

[F1boat]

Run, trolly, run! :)

[Alexamateo]

Also, DArio made a green flag pass of Tony Kanaan on the restart so there was one.

I would like it to be more competetive of course, but when there was 15 green flag passes in 30 laps, I am told it is "artificial pack racing". Some folks are bound and determined to be unhappy, so let them.

[-Helix-]

Richmond is just a horrible track. So was Iowa. Texas is usually a pretty good race, but it wasn't as entertaining this year as it normally is. I see where you're coming from, RGM, but I don't think it's a problem with the series. Just the races.

(P.S. I'm a "casual" fan of both series and have no allegiances. So don't consider this trolling.)

[jso1985]

ooh...! I thought only F1 fans assumed that overtaking is everything in motorsport... shame there's also trolls on other categories.
So, Franchitti dominated and kicked everyone's butt yesterday, yet we still had racing, so I fail to see where's the problem

[mark123]

I am an IRL fan but i think that the race on the weekend was crap. too much down force and one racing line = no passing. that is open wheel racing though - some times it happens. as far as passing is concerned, the irl (and maybe A1 GP) are better then all other series around the world.

I don't agree with setting the grid based on championship points though. it was a case of the rich get richer. they should have set the grib based on pratice times.

[NickFalzone]

I think it's silly to have the grid set by practice times. And as Dario said, it's downright unsafe to have some drivers out there trying to do qualifying speeds while others are doing practice runs. Champ pts is not a great way either, but I can't think of any more fair way to do it.

[CCFanatic]

I am an IRL fan but i think that the race on the weekend was crap. too much down force and one racing line = no passing. that is open wheel racing though - some times it happens. as far as passing is concerned, the irl (and maybe A1 GP) are better then all other series around the world.

I don't agree with setting the grid based on championship points though. it was a case of the rich get richer. they should have set the grib based on pratice times.


What is sad, and I did not watch the race, is that that the cars can run the whole race without letting up. That is why it is so hard to pass. You cannot get a run on someone going into a corner as you are not slowing down that much. Unlike Nazcar, that you have to actually use the brakes to get into the corner. But when an IRL car gets uses the brakes the front end breaks. It takes away the driver aspect of the series and makes it a race were only mistakes and stratedgy(not sure on spelling) are the only way to pass.

[mark123]

I guess thats short track racing. on the 1.5 mile tracks - there is plenty of passing because you can take a tow down the longer straights. thats Open wheel racing the world over. i would rather be watching open wheel racing to taxi racing.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I take no joy in RGM being banned. The forums won't be as ridiculous anymore. I am sad.

[nigelred5]

What is sad, and I did not watch the race, is that that the cars can run the whole race without letting up. That is why it is so hard to pass. You cannot get a run on someone going into a corner as you are not slowing down that much. Unlike Nazcar, that you have to actually use the brakes to get into the corner. But when an IRL car gets uses the brakes the front end breaks. It takes away the driver aspect of the series and makes it a race were only mistakes and stratedgy(not sure on spelling) are the only way to pass.


Richmond is not one of those places though. Unlike the fishbowl in Iowa where they just hammer down and hold on, they cannot and do not run Richmond flat the entire way. The turns are way too tight. Iowa's just another made for NASCAR track designed to hold 3400 pound cars on the track.

Watching the telemetry, I think they were lifting to about 40% throttle most every turn. The wing generated downforce is just one culprit on a track like Richmond. I think you are also seeing the penalty of a spec engine and a better quality of drivers and overall car preparation than say 3-4 years ago. No engine advantage, little difference in the quality of car preparation and some highly experienced and skilled drivers. Take Milka and a couple others out of the field and you honestly have 12-14 drivers fairly equally matched, so not a lot's gonna happen at a place like Richmond.

[JPMfan]

I've said in in another thread and I will say it again.

Personally I like all kinds of racing, whether it be on an oval or road-course.
This year I put some extra interest in the IRL, but of all the oval races they ran, no race stands out in particular in my opinion.

Open-wheel racing on ovals is only exiting to watch when the cars have less downforce than that they now have. Watch some of the old CART races.

When oval racing is the IRL's primary product, they'd better do something about it, because it ain't how it used to be.

But it absolutely kicks ass, that Franchitti seems to be on the road for a championship.

[-Helix-]

ooh...! I thought only F1 fans assumed that overtaking is everything in motorsport... shame there's also trolls on other categories.
So, Franchitti dominated and kicked everyone's butt yesterday, yet we still had racing, so I fail to see where's the problem

F1 fans assume passing is everything? If they thought that, they wouldn't be watching F1. It's usually people who dislike F1, like myself, who enjoy passing. Passing is racing, parades are not.

[Mark in Oshawa]

So what if there was no passing ??? To an IRL FAN, seeing drivers they care about do what they do and see how they finish IS entertainment. I know Darren, Sarah, and Buddy have a tough go of it but I care that they do well and see how they progress. Buddy did a great job tonight. That's entertainment.

Seeing a guy like Dario dominate ??? THAT's ENTERTAINMENT...

Well, Chicago, I give you props for standing up for the IRL, but I would like to see he same IRL trolls on the Champ Car board try to remember what you said here when CCWS has a few follow the leader parades.

Lets face it, aero dependent race cars don't pass each other easily unless they are already flat out like they are at Texas or Indy. The IRL has now found out about Aero push the hard way and they don't seem to be taking some of the wings away from the teams.

Passing, and meaningful passing (you know needing SKILL to make the pass)is what makes for great racing. I think that is where a lot of the criticism of the "pack racing" comes from. Iknow there is more to than that, so spare me the rotten tomatoes, but I do want to see passes that are difficult, but show the skill required. When two guys are going into a corner where there is room for one, and they have a braking duel, I can GET that. When 15 guys race in a pack and swap the lead around, I sorta get that, but a lot of it is just a lottery of when you are in front vis a vis the last lap.

I enjoy the IRL on road/street circuits, and I don't mind them at all on short ovals, even if the passing is not quite there. That said, they have to take the aero out of the cars for grip. That will cause more passing to come about through braking duels and skill in setting a car to handle on mechanical grip...

[ChicagocrewIRL]

See ! Fans of different series CAN agree to disagree without being disagreeable. (ARE YOU LISTENING RGM FAN ?)

Back to the topic, OF COURSE I want to see passing and lots of it, but for me, seeing a dominating performance by a car and driver that are just totally locked into the groove are just as entertaining. The IRL has a lot of competitive teams and drivers and to see one car and one team dominate a race is very compelling and entertaining.

And I as I said earlier, I CARE about these drivers and teams. Sure the IRL has its faults but one of its great attributes is that there is very little driver turnover. Some of these guys (and gals) have been around awhile. This continuity lends itself very well to getting to know who the drivers are, what their stories are, and eventually, caring about how they do in each and every race.

To me, this almost personal involvement through "knowing" the drivers, helps keep races entertaining even when there is little or no passing. I care about these drivers.

Helio Castroneves - - 7 seasons
Sam Hornish Jr. - - 8 seasons
Scott Dixon - - 5 seasons
Dan Wheldon - - 5 seasons
Tony Kanaan - - 6 seasons
Dario Franchitti - 6 seasons
Danica Patrick - - 3 seasons
Marco Andretti - - 2 seasons
Scott Sharp - - 12 seasons (IRONMAN AWARD)
Vitor Meira - - 6 seasons
Buddy Rice - - 6 seasons
Sarah Fisher - - 8 seasons
Tomas Scheckter - - 6 seasons
Ed Carpenter - - 5 seasons
Kosuke Matsuura - 4 seasons