Suicide bombers in UK

[race aficionado]

It's such a relief when disasters are averted.

Just seeing the news and I hope that whatever clues they can grasp will help to capture the culprits.

[Mp3 Astra]

It's a relief, but also worrying that it was by chance that the disaster was averted. An ambulance crew spotted it this morning and the bomb squad were there in minutes.

The bravery of the bomb squad has to be commended greatly as there were fumes of petrol coming out of the car, like and explosion was imminent. Brave, brave people.

Just when we thought the security services had all the potential threats found out, along comes this to blow it out of the water...

[oily oaf]

Funnily enough boys my eldest son is being dragged kicking and screaming Up West tonite by his old woman who is taking him to see We Will Rock You as a birthday "treat"

Now I know he's not keen on musicals but I think he's gone a bit OTT to get out of it on this occasion. :(
He's a little rascal and no error..................'e get's it from 'is muvver you know. :mad:

[306 Cosworth]

Fair play to the people who dissarmed the bomb, I heard on the Radio that smoke was coming out of the car apparently! Glad they managed to avert it and save the car for any potential evidence! Had 3 bomb scares now, one on new Severn Bridge (Controlled Explosion carried out) and onw in Wiltshire where suspicious chemicals were found in a shed with a boy collapsed and unconcious in it :s

[oily oaf]

Fair play to the people who dissarmed the bomb, I heard on the Radio that smoke was coming out of the car apparently! Glad they managed to avert it and save the car for any potential evidence! Had 3 bomb scares now, one on new Severn Bridge (Controlled Explosion carried out) and onw in Wiltshire where suspicious chemicals were found in a shed with a boy collapsed and unconcious in it :s

Amen to that Cossie. Apparently 2 bomb disposal boys went into the vehicle and disarmed the trigger which was to be activated by a mobile phone.
The bravest of the brave and no error.

[veeten]

okay, folks, now the real police work begins.

Crime forensics will do the bulk of the clues gathering, from prints on the auto to tracing the frequency of the bomb trigger. And since it was using a mobile phone...

*ring-ring* " ... 'ello?" "Yes, thank you for answering. This is the police, we have the house surrounded so, be good lads and come out with your hands up... " :p :

[jim mcglinchey]

" Crime forensics " thats a joke.....is it any bleedin' wonder theres no CSI Eastend spin off.

[Hazell B]

Watched a good deal of the story unfold this afternoon on News 24 while I had an extra long lunch. Made me realise how tough the police have it sometimes when they were talking to passers by who moaned about not being let back in to the areas fast enough :s

Save your life, and then get compalined about for it :mark:

[nicemms]

Its a good job the ambulance crew spotted it or it would have been a very nasty situation.

[Mp3 Astra]

Another car bomb found :O

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6255960.stm

[DonnieDarco]

I read that it was a policeman who got in the car, disarmed it via the mobile phone, then ran for cover - before the bomb squad arrived.

[oily oaf]

Apparently the second Merc containing explosives was actually ticketed and towed to the pound by a firm of wheel clampers
Blimey it's a good job all that jolting around didn't trigger the device and blow 'em to kingdom come.............................................. ....possibly :bomb:

[oily oaf]

I bet you any money you like that when the would be bombers brought those Mercs into London they tried to get out of paying the congestion charge.
Once again it's one law for Joe Public and quite another for swivel-eyed, murderous, Muslim fundamentalists.

HRH The Duke Of Edinburgh
The Queen's Gaff
Leighton Buzzard

[Zico]

A convenient and timely reminder as Gonad Brown (SP?) takes office.. ;)

[Ian McC]

This is a big worry, no apparent intelligence, no claims as to who it is? It seems we got very lucky indeed.

[Daniel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6257194.stm

Two men apparently of "asian" descent have driven a Jeep Cherokee that was on fire into the airport in Glasgow.

:mark:

[Ian McC]

This is proving to be a dark couple of days, I can't help but think things are going to get worse :mad:

[Mp3 Astra]

Nothing confirmed yet, but it does look very sinister according to eyewitness reports.

[Ian McC]

An eyewitness is now saying one of the people in the car was covering himself and the interior of the car in petrol

[Mp3 Astra]

And tried to get into/to something in the boot :mark:
No official information as yet, apart from the basic information saying that this incident has occured.

[Ian McC]

This is a nightmare, you can't stop things like this, two guys in a car, they could dream this up in the comfort of their own homes, no-one is going to get intelligence about it.

[Hazell B]

I've already read an open letter claiming it's a set-up to make us trust the security alerts.

Just for B Dunnel, before he starts claiming I'm always on about conspiracies :rolleyes: I shall repeat that I READ a letter and did not write it :laugh:

[edv]

what the heck does 'Asian' mean? That could be anything, really, from Siberia Japan India China Pakistan Arab ??? Does the term 'Asian' have some special significance in the UK that the rest of us are unaware of? Seems like a silly description to me.

[slinkster]

:( not heard of this on the news or anything... been a bad few days and yes sadly there's probably more to come.

[Hazell B]

what the heck does 'Asian' mean? That could be anything, really, from Siberia Japan India China Pakistan Arab ??? Does the term 'Asian' have some special significance in the UK that the rest of us are unaware of? Seems like a silly description to me.

Don't even ask - it'll just open up a can of worms :mark:

You never hear possible attackers described as 'short' or 'dark haired' or anything like that, just Asian, Muslim and Black these days. It's just how it is now and there's no real explaination other than 'them' being 'not us' to Sun readers. I don't get it half the time, especially when people are called 'non-Asian' :confused:

[Mp3 Astra]

http://www.mi5.gov.uk/files/images/h_threatlevel_critical.gif
This means an attack is expected iminently.

This is really quite alarming.

http://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/Page311.html

[Mp3 Astra]

I've already read an open letter claiming it's a set-up to make us trust the security alerts.


If that was true, then it makes everyone look very stupid by apparently nobody knowing it was going to happen. If anything it would decrease trusts!

[Drew]

I'm always suspicious, but you never know. I still feel safe though and will fly out of the country on wednesday without any worries...

[stevie_gerrard]

This is a terrible time for Britain, and i only hope things won't continue like this :( Just think of all the holidays people have booked, all them flights, all the big events happening Wimbledon, Princess Diana Concert tomorrow, Earth Concert next week, it is a worrying time.

Gordon Brown absoultely right to have the threat level advanced to critical, but i get this really bad feeling he's not confident in himself, and he doesn't emit confidence either, his announcement was very bland and ordinary.

[BDunnell]

Gordon Brown absoultely right to have the threat level advanced to critical, but i get this really bad feeling he's not confident in himself, and he doesn't emit confidence either, his announcement was very bland and ordinary.

I'm glad about that. What do you want — him to burst into tears and start screaming?

Very briefly, I think these incidents prove once again that it is impossible to prevent absolutely every attempted attack, and that therefore we shouldn't expect the authorities to be able to do so. I don't recall this being the case when the IRA was conducting its campaign on the mainland, but maybe this is a change (for the worse) in the British psyche.

[Bezza]

These people are sub-human scum. Makes me angry seeing it on the news. Thankfully so far lives have been saved and the vermin have been stopped from achieving their mission.

No doubt there will be further attempts after three failed attempts.

Hopefully Gordon Brown will realise that his old pal Fony Tony destroyed the immigration system and pandered to the migrants so much that he comes up with a proper solution - like not letting them into the country any more. Too late now though I suppose, they are here now and have their British citizenships :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

These people are sub-human scum. Makes me angry seeing it on the news. Thankfully so far lives have been saved and the vermin have been stopped from achieving their mission.

No doubt there will be further attempts after three failed attempts.

Hopefully Gordon Brown will realise that his old pal Fony Tony destroyed the immigration system and pandered to the migrants so much that he comes up with a proper solution - like not letting them into the country any more. Too late now though I suppose, they are here now and have their British citizenships :rolleyes:

I was wondering when you might offer us your considered opinion regarding immigration on this thread.

I hardly need say that the situation isn't quite as simple as just being down to 'illegals'. How do you know that these suspects aren't British citizens, or maybe second- or third-generation British Muslims? I don't know whether they are, of course, but it is a possibility that's worth considering before going down the right-wing tabloid route.

[Daniel]

These people are sub-human scum. Makes me angry seeing it on the news. Thankfully so far lives have been saved and the vermin have been stopped from achieving their mission.

No doubt there will be further attempts after three failed attempts.

Hopefully Gordon Brown will realise that his old pal Fony Tony destroyed the immigration system and pandered to the migrants so much that he comes up with a proper solution - like not letting them into the country any more. Too late now though I suppose, they are here now and have their British citizenships :rolleyes:
OMFG I'm an immigrant! I think I'm going to set off a bomb just for that very reason!

[Dave B]

These people are sub-human scum. Makes me angry seeing it on the news. Thankfully so far lives have been saved and the vermin have been stopped from achieving their mission.

No doubt there will be further attempts after three failed attempts.

Hopefully Gordon Brown will realise that his old pal Fony Tony destroyed the immigration system and pandered to the migrants so much that he comes up with a proper solution - like not letting them into the country any more. Too late now though I suppose, they are here now and have their British citizenships :rolleyes:
That's some of the most ill-thought rubbish I've read in a very long time - and last week I read the Mail on Sunday.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

IMMAGANTS!!! I knew it was them, when when it was with the floods I knew it was them!! :mad: :p

Needless to say that it would be horrific if it hadn't been found. Apparently the club where the 1st car was supposed to explode usually has around 1,000 people inside. It could possibly have been more deadly than the 7/7 bombings.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

- and last week I read the Mail on Sunday.

That's one of my favourite comics. I read a hilarious story the other day in The Mail about Gypsies eating our pets. :laugh:

[Ian McC]

That's some of the most ill-thought rubbish I've read in a very long time - and last week I read the Mail on Sunday.

Maybe, but some people think it, and the more that it happens the more will think it :(

[Bezza]

If you actually read what I put, I didn't say the attacks where by immigrants. My points were seperate. You all just jumped to the conclusion and put two and two together - clearly you subconsciously believe that.

Of course, the attacks could well be from second or third generation citizens. However, the immigration situation does not help matters, and if you see Al Qaeda training camps, you know were they are heading and our paltry system will allow them in with open arms.

Brockman, I don't need patronising thank you very much. Next time justify your point.

[Erki]

OMFG I'm an immigrant! I think I'm going to set off a bomb just for that very reason!

Says it all really. :p :p

[Daniel]

If you actually read what I put, I didn't say the attacks where by immigrants. My points were seperate. You all just jumped to the conclusion and put two and two together - clearly you subconsciously believe that.

Of course, the attacks could well be from second or third generation citizens. However, the immigration situation does not help matters, and if you see Al Qaeda training camps, you know were they are heading and our paltry system will allow them in with open arms.

Brockman, I don't need patronising thank you very much. Next time justify your point.
What's your solution?

You look like a shifty ****. You're not coming in? :mark:

You're from japan? That's fine. You're from Greece? We don't want your type here.

Where doth thou draw the line and is there any practical immigration policy that can combat this threat?

[Bezza]

What you have against the Greeks? :s

[Ian McC]

What you have against the Greeks? :s

Prince Phillip? :p :

[Hazell B]

Prince Phillip? :p :

Yeah, they come here stealin' our women :p :

[BDunnell]

If you actually read what I put, I didn't say the attacks where by immigrants. My points were seperate. You all just jumped to the conclusion and put two and two together - clearly you subconsciously believe that.

Absolute rubbish, like everything else you ever post where you express a political opinion.

[Bezza]

Absolute rubbish, like everything else you ever post where you express a political opinion.

Whenever a political thread appears you like to throw your weight around and show everyone your "knowledge" whilst ridiculing others. Yet again you've just made a statement there and not backed it up at all.

This is fun though, seeing the over-the-top comments from yourself and some others. For heavens sake take a chill pill.

[BDunnell]

Whenever a political thread appears you like to throw your weight around and show everyone your "knowledge" whilst ridiculing others. Yet again you've just made a statement there and not backed it up at all.

This is fun though, seeing the over-the-top comments from yourself and some others. For heavens sake take a chill pill.

There are some people on here whose political opinions I disagree vehemently with, but respect because they are founded in intelligent thought. Not yours. Sorry.

[Bezza]

I don't have the energy or desire to write a long, structured, explanation of my political feelings, so I skim it down rather than waffle on. I am not a politician, therefore have no need to express politically correct pieces of garbage. I speak honestly and from the heart.

If I am lacking in "intelligent thought" maybe you can offer an explanation as to why I have 11 GCSE's, 4 A-Levels and a degree in psychology? That was a very noble thing to say, sir.

[BDunnell]

I don't have the energy or desire to write a long, structured, explanation of my political feelings, so I skim it down rather than waffle on. I am not a politician, therefore have no need to express politically correct pieces of garbage. I speak honestly and from the heart.

The fact that you say that proves how little you know about politics. You make a statement there about politicians in general that simply isn't true — it's based on a complete generalisation and no knowledge of what politics is actually like.



If I am lacking in "intelligent thought" maybe you can offer an explanation as to why I have 11 GCSE's, 4 A-Levels and a degree in psychology? That was a very noble thing to say, sir.

I have seen no evidence of intelligent thought about politics in anything you have ever posted, unless reciting Sun editorials and readers' letters counts nowadays.

[SOD]

Yeah, they come here stealin' our women :p :

It wasn't the greeks, it was the Chinese!

[Bezza]

The fact that you say that proves how little you know about politics. You make a statement there about politicians in general that simply isn't true — it's based on a complete generalisation and no knowledge of what politics is actually like.

I don't really care to be honest. Like I said, I speak from the heart. You clearly have problems with that because rather than ignore a "lesser" person than yourself, you feel you have to interject and point out how uneducated you think I am. No, you like to wade in there and throw your weight around - its very obvious and its very arrogant. You are perfectly suited to London! :s nore:




I have seen no evidence of intelligent thought about politics in anything you have ever posted, unless reciting Sun editorials and readers' letters counts nowadays.

Well my current employers will beg to differ, as I make them a lot of money through intelligent selling. And I don't read the Sun - so your ill-concieved argument is founded on pure guesswork.

[BDunnell]

I don't really care to be honest. Like I said, I speak from the heart. You clearly have problems with that because rather than ignore a "lesser" person than yourself, you feel you have to interject and point out how uneducated you think I am. No, you like to wade in there and throw your weight around - its very obvious and its very arrogant. You are perfectly suited to London! :s nore:

If you want to think all that, then fine.

Please expand on the final statement, though. I would be fascinated to hear your rationale.


Well my current employers will beg to differ, as I make them a lot of money through intelligent selling.

Well done.

[Ian McC]

Do you think you two could take this outside, the testosterone in here is even starting to get to me :p :

[oily oaf]

Yeah, they come here stealin' our women :p :

They didn't steal mine :(
The cous cous guzzling scum didnt even have the common decency to steal my job (smashes cat over head with box of feta cheese)

[oily oaf]

Yes I wholeheatedly agree that we should send 'em all back.
Last Thursday I spotted a Bangladeshi chappie outside Stepney Green tube station. "Why dont you clear off back to where you came from" I bawled.
Fortunately he complied immediately and now lives in a small terraced property just outside Preston North End football ground and is currently employed as Bezza's gardener and toilet paper wallah.

Swivel-Eyed Jim
27 Enoch Powell Approach
Lahore
Pakistan (the nice bit without loads of sooties in it)

[Hawkmoon]

A practical way of solving the terrorist problem? No such thing. The solution is going to very messy and very bloody and it will leave the Middle East a charred mess.

You can't reason with people who think they're doing the right thing by blowing themselves up. Not to mention anybody within range as well. Therefore words like practical, reasonable, fair and equality have no currency in any possible solution to this problem.

I greatly fear that the sword is the only way to stop these attacks. The word has failed. In fact, the word was dead before it started.

[Daniel]

A practical way of solving the terrorist problem? No such thing. The solution is going to very messy and very bloody and it will leave the Middle East a charred mess.

You can't reason with people who think they're doing the right thing by blowing themselves up. Not to mention anybody within range as well. Therefore words like practical, reasonable, fair and equality have no currency in any possible solution to this problem.

I greatly fear that the sword is the only way to stop these attacks. The word has failed. In fact, the word was dead before it started.
Oh yes that will help. All the people in the UK of middle eastern descent will stop being angry with the UK for backing the US in Iraq and Palestine when we kill all of their relatives in the Middle East. You my friend don't have any common sense.

[Mark]

And we can stop the personal bickering now please.

[Flat.tyres]

And we can stop the personal bickering now please.

awwww, it was just getting interesting. i recommend feather Boa's at dawn.

obviously people have a problem differentiating immegration policy with an assumed Islamic terrorist attack. It is highly unlikely the 2 are related although you can never rule anything out at this stage as there is very little information around.

what does seem to be apparent is that these terrorists are more of a threat to themselves than anyone else at the moment. using mobile phones to set off explosions is not the most reliable method (see Brainiacs) and if they were on T. Mobile, they would have no chance of getting a signal.

[Zico]

I see they have named the two terrorists who attacked Glasgow airport..


Singe Majeep and Maheed Sonfayer. :D

[Flat.tyres]

I see they have named the two terrorists who attacked Glasgow airport..


Singe Majeep and Maheed Sonfayer. :D

along with their partner in crime...

Mustava farbom

:laugh:

well done fella. top drawer.

[donKey jote]

Yes I wholeheatedly agree that we should send 'em all back.
Last Thursday I spotted a Bangladeshi chappie outside Stepney Green tube station. "Why dont you clear off back to where you came from" I bawled.
Fortunately he complied immediately and now lives in a small terraced property just outside Preston North End football ground and is currently employed as Bezza's gardener and toilet paper wallah.

Swivel-Eyed Jim
27 Enoch Powell Approach
Lahore
Pakistan (the nice bit without loads of sooties in it)

:laugh:

[speedy king]

This is very harsh to some views and rationalistic but in my personal opinion these poeple, when caught red handed like in Glasgow, should be tortured to perhaps have a chance of them spilling any beans then be executed. It's time for this country to turn tough, i'm not saying do this to people if their is 'reasonable evidence' i'm talking caught red handed.


Like i say, rational view but i have no decent views to people this sick. Bring back the death penalty for Terrorists. I know these people don't mind dying for a cause, but if we can kill them off after incidents like Glasgow where it failed then there's no chance in it happening again, don't waste our prison money on them, don't deport them, they can still attack us.

[BDunnell]

This is very harsh to some views and rationalistic but in my personal opinion these poeple, when caught red handed like in Glasgow, should be tortured to perhaps have a chance of them spilling any beans then be executed. It's time for this country to turn tough, i'm not saying do this to people if their is 'reasonable evidence' i'm talking caught red handed.


Like i say, rational view but i have no decent views to people this sick. Bring back the death penalty for Terrorists. I know these people don't mind dying for a cause, but if we can kill them off after incidents like Glasgow where it failed then there's no chance in it happening again, don't waste our prison money on them, don't deport them, they can still attack us.

And create martyrs out of them, thereby helping play into their hands, and causing a new generation of terrorists, and...

[L5->R5/CR]

And create martyrs out of them, thereby helping play into their hands, and causing a new generation of terrorists, and...



To think that you (using you in the relative sense) have the ability to control to influence of your actions on terrorists is a joke.

If you arrest them and in prison them their supporters will seek to have the "injustice" righted or become more determined to complete their work.

If you kill them they become heros and martyrs to the Jihad.

If you torture them you increase their resolve and hte resolve of their followers.

If you let them succeed you encourage others.

There is no good way to deal with terrorists. In all instances the actions can be spun to have an instigating and "useful" message. The best method is to do what is necessary while not loosing your identity and dignity. IF Britain returns to the death penalty the terrorists have made you go back to "backwards" ways and Britain will be barbaric. If you put them in jail their followers will still have the steeley resolve to attempt future attacks. There is no win and end game in the fight against terrorism.


Personally I feel no remorse for the treatment of ultra violent individuals. I don't support the death penalty, only because it is too humane for many people. Life of brutally solitary confinement and orchestrated mental anguish is what these types of people deserve. A whole lifetime to leave them to suffer the impact and consequences of their perverted thoughts.

[Hawkmoon]

Oh yes that will help. All the people in the UK of middle eastern descent will stop being angry with the UK for backing the US in Iraq and Palestine when we kill all of their relatives in the Middle East. You my friend don't have any common sense.

Daniel, don't misunderstand me. I'm not advocating an invasion of the entire Middle East. I said I fear that that is the only way this conflict will end. If these extremists keep attacking Western nations then sooner or later the powers that be in the West are going to hit back. Nobody wins if this happens.

[Flat.tyres]

To think that you (using you in the relative sense) have the ability to control to influence of your actions on terrorists is a joke.

If you arrest them and in prison them their supporters will seek to have the "injustice" righted or become more determined to complete their work.

If you kill them they become heros and martyrs to the Jihad.

If you torture them you increase their resolve and hte resolve of their followers.

If you let them succeed you encourage others.

There is no good way to deal with terrorists. In all instances the actions can be spun to have an instigating and "useful" message. The best method is to do what is necessary while not loosing your identity and dignity. IF Britain returns to the death penalty the terrorists have made you go back to "backwards" ways and Britain will be barbaric. If you put them in jail their followers will still have the steeley resolve to attempt future attacks. There is no win and end game in the fight against terrorism.


Personally I feel no remorse for the treatment of ultra violent individuals. I don't support the death penalty, only because it is too humane for many people. Life of brutally solitary confinement and orchestrated mental anguish is what these types of people deserve. A whole lifetime to leave them to suffer the impact and consequences of their perverted thoughts.

this is it in a nutshell. there is no way to deal with the consequenses of terrorism effectivly unless you address the cause.

co-opperation and communicion with dissafected bodies is the only way forward. Hearts and mind of the masses and all that will marginalise further the redicals and erode their support base.

[Flat.tyres]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/6262208.stm

whats the betting the McLarens explode :D

[Daniel]

That would be hilarious :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

There is no good way to deal with terrorists. In all instances the actions can be spun to have an instigating and "useful" message. The best method is to do what is necessary while not loosing your identity and dignity. IF Britain returns to the death penalty the terrorists have made you go back to "backwards" ways and Britain will be barbaric. If you put them in jail their followers will still have the steeley resolve to attempt future attacks. There is no win and end game in the fight against terrorism.

I agree with all of that.

There needs to be an understanding of the root causes and an effort to deal with them without prejudicing our own interests. This does not mean 'selling out' to the terrorists, as some people may think. Rather, it is eminently sensible.

[Flat.tyres]

That would be hilarious :rolleyes:

i think you ment to put a :laugh: at the end rather than a :rolleyes:

;)

[Daniel]

No I didn't. I was being sarcastic as I don't think that's funny at all.

[Flat.tyres]

No I didn't. I was being sarcastic as I don't think that's funny at all.

dear oh dear, we are a bit of a sour puss, arent we :p :

i suppose thats the difference. I normally find your posts funny :D

[oily oaf]

I went to the doctors this morning with a rather nasty migraine.
He gave me two Molotov cocktails and told me to call him in the morning :(

[Mark in Oshawa]

I do know this much. The people who want to "get the UK/US/whomever out of the Middle East wont solve the problem. The people who want to ban all immigration from that part of the world wont solve the problem.

What will?

Is there a magic pill? No, the only way it is solved is by calm resolve. Don't destroy our democracies to fight this, but fight it with resolve. The resolve to fight the battles where they are being fought, the resolve to educate people about the freedom of religion and the rights of all people, and the resolve to combat domestic terrorism with resources and the rule of law enforced. Just ride it out. It may take us 4 generations to beat this thing, we may never completely eliminate it, but we have to try. To just throw up our hands and retreat would send just as bad a message as going nuts and killing half of the middle east....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Failing that....hire Oily for answers, he seems to always have a dead animal or mindless bout of violence handy to solve his issues....

[N. Jones]

I agree with all of that.

There needs to be an understanding of the root causes and an effort to deal with them without prejudicing our own interests. This does not mean 'selling out' to the terrorists, as some people may think. Rather, it is eminently sensible.

Look here for a theory and maybe an answer (and dont' just look at the link! go and READ the thing!)
http://www.juancole.com/labels/al-Qaeda.html

[BDunnell]

Look here for a theory and maybe an answer (and dont' just look at the link! go and READ the thing!)
http://www.juancole.com/labels/al-Qaeda.html

Very interesting. Many thanks.

The question of why those committing, or seeking to commit, these acts believe that they will be able to influence policy and thinking in a way that ends up being favourable to them is fascinating. In this respect, those currently involved in terrorist activity such as that seen in the UK this past week are very different to, for example, terrorists in Northern Ireland, because those groups did, sadly, command some degree of public support at home for their actions. What we are seeing now are actions that generate revulsion amongst everybody other than a very small group, and have no hope of influencing policy.

[oily oaf]

I do know this much. The people who want to "get the UK/US/whomever out of the Middle East wont solve the problem. The people who want to ban all immigration from that part of the world wont solve the problem.

What will?

Is there a magic pill? fight this, but fight it with resolve. The resolve to fight the battles where they are being fought, the resolve to educatNo, the only way it is solved is by calm resolve. Don't e people about the freedom of religion and the rights of all people, and the resolve to combat domestic terrorism with resources and the rule of law enforced. Just ride it out. It may take us 4 generations to beat this thing, we may never completely eliminate it, but we have to try. To just throw up our hands and retreat would send just as bad a message as going nuts and killing half of the middle east....destroy our democracies to

The problem as I see it is there there is no common ground on which the West can base any negotiations with the terrorists. Things have become so polarised that any attempt to reach out to the perpetrators of this barbarism and their philosophical mentors is surely futile and doomed to fail.
The reason why the Brits managed to quell the unrest in Northern Ireland was largely down to the basic ideological similarities between the protagonists in that both parties were Christian, white and shared a common language.
In the struggle against Islamic terrorism there is no such common ground only a yawning chasm of mistrust and hatred.
I'm rather afraid that the prospect of Mr Bush or his predecessor sitting round the negotiating table with Osama Bin Laden and reaching a consensus is so remote as to be risible.
So what's to be done I hear you cry.

I don't bloody know I'm a mechanic fer Chrissake :mad:

[oily oaf]

Mind you on reflection if the worst comes to the worst and a full scale holy war develops we can always steam into 'em full pelt with a variety of dead animals. :cat:

[jim mcglinchey]

as going nuts and killing half of the middle east....

You joke about it but the fact is that the West has that option and I dont find it surprising that the Muslims strongly object to being at a disadvantage.

Dialogue is the only answer.

[Ian McC]

Well it appears all the suspects detained are Doctors.

Maybe this gives an insight into the power and persuation of the radicals, they can twist those that have sworn an oath to protect life into potential killers :(

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ian, it just proves that with radical Islam, no limits seem to be set on who they recruit, and THAT is why this "war on terror" thing is so hard to define. One just cant guess who could be the next suicide bomber...

[Mark]

At least with Northern Ireland there was a clearly stated goal to their actions, i.e. relinquish British control of Northern Ireland and the problem goes away.

But apart from the obvious of Afghanistan and Iraq, what do they want from us? Remember 11th September 2001 was before any of the invasions.

[Flat.tyres]

one of the most interesting debates on here for me both in terms of content and the open manner if discussion. when you look at the basics, it makes sad reading. Not totally hopeless though.

we are at war with a largly unidentifiable and disperate enemy. One that has a varied common goal and very little shared purpose where what stated goals are largely unrealistic. Not a good basis for negiotiation.

that being said, they are capable of influencing policy. eventually, a leader or mouthpiece will emerge to speak for the masses. most of the fundemental groups will buy into this and progress will be made. The wild and fanciful claims will become structured and concensus will occur. How long it takes for this to happen is anyones guess. Who's to say it isn't happening in the background already?

i see 2 teirs to the global terrorist threat. The extreemists that will go out and blow themselves to billy-o and the leaders who are directing them. the cannon fodder will continue to de directed to blow themselves up for as long as it takes to establish some sort of negiotiation body. we already know there is widespread support for this movement so we just need to know who or what banner it will fall under.

[BDunnell]

At least with Northern Ireland there was a clearly stated goal to their actions, i.e. relinquish British control of Northern Ireland and the problem goes away.

And, as I said, they did represent tracts of public opinion that were probably more significant than do the Muslim extremists in the UK. After all, the Northern Irish political mainstream was — with a few exceptions, none of which commanded a great deal of support — largely made up of extremists of one form or another when compared with mainland politics. I once read it said that the view expressed by many mainland British politicians that 'the people of Northern Ireland want peace' was entirely unfounded, because they could have all voted for the middle-ground Alliance Party, but chose not to.

[jim mcglinchey]

of

[jim mcglinchey]

Woopsie. Of course we all wanted peace but for alot of people it was peace on your terms and that meant voting for the party which best represented your polarised view.

The strange thing is that now that the two extremist parties, the DUP and the Shinners have finally found common ground and are getting more and more of the vote, middle of the roaders like Alliance and SDLP who always showed great sense and whose position on alot of things has finally been adopted by the big parties, are being squeezed out.

[oily oaf]

of

He's a man of few words is Jim but I'm given to understand that he does have reasonably nice hair.

[jim mcglinchey]

..and none of it either unsightly or unwanted...what other of my most personal biometrics have you access to, Mr Oaf ?

[jim mcglinchey]

..transpires that one of the Glasgow bombers graduated in Aeronautical Engineering from the prestigous Queens University, Belfast....based on what he went on to do he should've just spent a few pissed up weekends with the less prestigous West Belfast Joy Riders and Ram Raiders Institute, though it would take a much less sensitive soul than me to make a cheap joke about that one, ahem.

[SOD]

Ian, it just proves that with radical Islam, no limits seem to be set on who they recruit, and THAT is why this "war on terror" thing is so hard to define. One just cant guess who could be the next suicide bomber...

everyone who is a Muslim is a suspect. of course its OK for certain countries in the west to cluster bomb Muslim people, like the USA & Israel did. All in the name of fighting 'terror'

[Malbec]

Well it appears all the suspects detained are Doctors.

Maybe this gives an insight into the power and persuation of the radicals, they can twist those that have sworn an oath to protect life into potential killers :(

Ummmm

Doctors have been responsible for quite a few deaths over history, and I'm not talking about simple drug reactions here.

Apart from the likes of Harold Shipman or Dr Crippen, you have Radovan Karadjic, psychiatrist and leader of the Bosnian Serbs who didn't flinch from ordering the killing of thousands of Muslims and Croats during the war there with his sidekick Mladic. Ayman Al-Zawahiri, 2i-c of Al-Qaeda is/was a surgeon, the old dictator of Malawi Dr Hastings Banda was a GP in the UK before he went to butcher thousands in his homeland.

The only post-Saddam PM who had the guts to take on opposition to central rule in Iraq, Dr Iyad Allawi was a neurologist and was partially responsible for the assault on Fallujah.

Then there are the guys like Dr Mengele who were quite prepared to kill in pursuit of medical knowledge. Doctors in the US, China and elsewhere that use the fatal injection method of execution kill prisoners on a daily basis, and a few are closely involved in torture by monitoring prisoners and ensuring that they can stand another round.

There are plenty of doctors who have pursued more wholesome careers in politics of course, many more than the bad apples that have tainted the name of the profession, but its wrong to suggest that Islamic extremism is the first to turn them into murderers. Che Guevara was a doctor too, and whether he was a terrorist depends largely on your political viewpoint.

Admittedly the two involved in the Glasgow bombings, and the only ones we can say for certain are responsible so far have taken steps further by becoming wannabe suicide bombers.

Anyway, on a lighter note:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/bomb-doctors-to-be-struck-off-for-working-on-saturdays-20070703256/

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/bupa-takes-over-struggling-nhs-terror-cell-20070704259/

[Drew]

Having just come back from holiday in Cyprus there are huge differences between here and there. In the UK the checks feel very hostile. At passport control in Cyprus they literally just checked to see if you had a passport, here they look at your picture for a while and then scan your passport.

Of course coming back, I had to be stuck behind the retarded lobster cat lady that first couldn't find her passport and then didn't know you weren't allowed to take your own liquids on board (it's mentioned everywhere...) :rolleyes:

[schmenke]

Not sure if this is the proper place to post this, and it may offend some, but I found it amusing :D . This was recently e-mailed to me by a colleague who is from Glasgow.


An Ode to a Suicide Bomber

'Twas doon by the inch o’ Abbots
Oor Johnny walked one day
When he saw a sicht that troubled him
Far more that he could say
A fanatic muslim basturd
Wiz doin what he’d planned
And intae Glesca’s departure hall
A Cherokee he’d rammed.

A big Glaswegian polis
Came forward tae assist
He thocht “a wumman driver”
Or at least someone half-pissed
But to his shock nae drunken Jock
Emerged to grasp his hand
But a flamin Arab loony
Frae Al Qaeda’s band

The mad Islamist nut-case
Had set hissel’ on fire
And swung oot at the polis
GBH his clear desire
Now that’s no richt wur Johnny cried
And sallied tae the fray
A left hook and a heid butt
Required tae save the day.

Now listen up Bin Laden
Yir sort’s nae wanted here
For imported English radicals
Us Scoatsman huv nae fear
Oor hame grown Glesca Asians
Will have nae bluidy truck
So tak yer worldwide jihad
An get yersel tae F***

[oily oaf]

Absolute quality mate. :D
You should have saved it till tomorrow night :mad: