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Old3Fan

26th June 2007, 21:19

100 points for Jeff and Jimmy and Mr. Hendricks. $100,000 fine for both crew chiefs + 6 race suspendion.

Sparky1329

26th June 2007, 21:25

Well it's the same penalty the #8 team got so at least NASCAR is consistent on this one.

GARYGAZZA

26th June 2007, 21:36

At least Nascar are being consistant.Any less then the 8 team would of had cause for complaint.

RaceFanStan

26th June 2007, 21:38

pdalbey

26th June 2007, 22:31

I'm actually a bit surprised that the penalties aren't more harsh. I figured NASCAR would say "Well, that didn't work. Let's see how they like THIS!"

I know I will be in the minority on this but I'm not totally convinced that there should have been any penalty. Neither the 24 nor 48 ever turned a lap with the violations so was there really any harm? If Chad Knaus calls NASCAR on Tuesday and says, "Hey, we've made this change already. Are we in violation?", is that any different from what happened? Yes, I understand that there was intent but the modification was reversed before any laps were even turned and no advantage was gained by either team. JMHO.

muggle not

26th June 2007, 23:09

Penalties seem to be consistent with the infraction. Actually, I have no problem with what the 24 and 48 cars did. It was a gray area and they pushed the envelope to see how far they could go. It was not a blatant attempt to change the engine, etc.

Mark in Oshawa

26th June 2007, 23:45

It is about what I expected, NASCAR had to be consistant ...
if they waivered at all, the Jr fans would have been in a uproar.

I still disagree with holding a driver responsible for an out-of-spec car.
The driver DRIVES the racecar but he doesn't build it ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

Stan, that presumes that the driver is ALWAYS in the dark about what is going on in the shop. With the amount of time they spend in the shop and the teamwork between the Crew Chief and car chief, and the driver, it is a bit much to presuppose that the driver is completely ignorant of everything going on in the shop. I don't think Knaus or Letarte thought they were breaking the rules, but they also know NASCAR wants no modification whatsover. They would NOT have tried this during the chase, but both chiefs will be back before the chase, and I can bet even with this, it would take a lot for both the 48 and 24 to not be in the top 12.

So they got hit hard, and while Jeff and Jimmie may not have had an idea this was going down, if you don't punish the drivers points wise, then why bother punishing anyone? IT is the championship of drivers that people pay attention to. By taking it out on the drivers, it will force drivers to pressure their teams to follow the rules. They win together, they lose together, and in this case, they cheated together.

harvick#1

27th June 2007, 00:01

sorry but Knuas should be done

Old3Fan

27th June 2007, 00:12

sorry but Knuas should be done

I agree. This guy is arrogant and will continue to cheat until they they take his license away for good. Now would have been a great time to get all the owners/crew chiefs/drivers and crews attention.

jeffmr2

27th June 2007, 00:26

IMO persistent offenders should be punished far more heavily.I have a question,how many times have eury jr and steve letart been caught cheating compared to chad?

blakebeatty

27th June 2007, 00:39

I agree. This guy is arrogant and will continue to cheat until they they take his license away for good. Now would have been a great time to get all the owners/crew chiefs/drivers and crews attention.

are you guys kidding me! The cars FIT THE CLAW! They were working in an undeveloped grey area. If anything, punishment was deserved, but not so harsh as putting additives in the fuel, using an illegally adjustable wing, tampering with a fuel cell, or even (to be impartial) rigging a device to race the window to deflect air over the spoiler. No defined rule was circumvented.

Old3Fan

27th June 2007, 00:51

IMO persistent offenders should be punished far more heavily.I have a question,how many times have eury jr and steve letart been caught cheating compared to chad?

I am pretty sure that Chad is the leader of this trio.

Old3Fan

27th June 2007, 00:53

are you guys kidding me! The cars FIT THE CLAW! They were working in an undeveloped grey area. If anything, punishment was deserved, but not so harsh as putting additives in the fuel, using an illegally adjustable wing, tampering with a fuel cell, or even (to be impartial) rigging a device to race the window to deflect air over the spoiler. No defined rule was circumvented.

Nascar thinks different and THEY MAKE THE RULES AND ISSUE THE FINES.

dont_be_jack

27th June 2007, 02:47

There is no reason to take away Knaus' license for NASCAR. He pushes the envelope and NASCAR is more than likely thankful for it. It allows them to refine their rules, even if it means suspending him. And for years before now people cheated as much as they could and NASCAR rarely, if ever, took away their right to work.

harvick#1

27th June 2007, 03:14

Nascar doesn't want any modifications to the CoT period.

They don't care that it fit the templetes, they saw the two gaining an edge and thats exactly what Nascar DOESN'T want with the new car. for teams to tamper with this car and start having aero issues again.

Nascar wants this car to be fair for everyone and try and level the playing field and give the smaller less funded teams a chance. and the two cheats thought they can squeek through but Nascar finally caught them.

Nascar made the car the way it was suppose to, every team has followed the rules, except for the 8, 24, 48. those teams should've been given harsher penalties than what was given to them.

leopard

27th June 2007, 06:37

Rusty Spanner

27th June 2007, 09:04

I know I will be in the minority on this but I'm not totally convinced that there should have been any penalty. Neither the 24 nor 48 ever turned a lap with the violations so was there really any harm? If Chad Knaus calls NASCAR on Tuesday and says, "Hey, we've made this change already. Are we in violation?", is that any different from what happened? Yes, I understand that there was intent but the modification was reversed before any laps were even turned and no advantage was gained by either team. JMHO.

I'd agree with that.

Isn't the point of inspecting the cars before they hit the track to make sure the playing field is level. If there really wasn't any specific rules broken then the penalties are way to harsh. If nascar sees something it doesn't like I've got no problem with them writting a rule to prevent it in future, but you can't just get rid of things you don't like in the middle of a race weekend.

These penalties seem ludicrous when you consider some of the pretty weak penalties dished out by nascar when cars fail post race inspections.

muggle not

27th June 2007, 13:18

I'd agree with that.

Isn't the point of inspecting the cars before they hit the track to make sure the playing field is level. If there really wasn't any specific rules broken then the penalties are way to harsh. If nascar sees something it doesn't like I've got no problem with them writting a rule to prevent it in future, but you can't just get rid of things you don't like in the middle of a race weekend.

These penalties seem ludicrous when you consider some of the pretty weak penalties dished out by nascar when cars fail post race inspections.
The only people saying that the penalties should have been harsher are the HMS haters. Expect it all the time on this forum.

blakebeatty

27th June 2007, 15:07

The only people saying that the penalties should have been harsher are the HMS haters. Expect it all the time on this forum.

Yeah, that's what drives me nuts about this place. I try to remain impartial as much as i can, and I know that there are many others that do too, like you muggs, Stan, Cindy, Mark in Oshawa, etc

Much as I still enjoy the guy's opinion, i think that a separate forum needs to be created for all of the old school fans at http://harvick#1.motorsportsforums.com

Sparky1329

27th June 2007, 15:47

Wasn't the points penalty excessive?

Any violations might result warning and harsh warning prior to points penalty, they might also drop some position of the relevant race off for that. Being straightly penalized on the point will disadvantage driver too much and ruin the whole achievement of the season.

I asked this two drivers yesterday, their 24 and 48 number are quite unique. Jimmie is now in the 5th of standing? :(

The points penalty is meaningless. After 26 races the system locks in the top 12 and the other guys just ride around for the rest of the season. Jimmie lost two spots which means nothing under the current system and Jeff is still leading the points. No big deal.

Mark in Oshawa

27th June 2007, 16:16

Sparky, you just brought up my point. This suspension and penalty of putting the two of them at the back at Sonoma really just hurt them for that race (Jeffie got a top 10, so who's to say it really hurt him bad?). Both crew chiefs will be in the nearest hotels for the next 6 weeks and be wired through modems to real time communications with the team, not to mention all the neat cell gear. They will be calling all the shots from the hotel, using real time telemetry from the pits to tell them what is going on. So that part of the penalty isn't that tough. The 100 points would be tough in a world without the Chase, but not when Jeff was leading the points and Jimmie was 3rd. So they drop a little, but as long as those cars are in the top 12, I don't see anyone at Hendrick's losing sleep. The money hurts for about 10 seconds. Rick Hendrick wants his teams to win, and he wants his guys to push the envelope. This is just the cost of doing business to him.

So these penalties are consistent, but not overly harsh in any way. The infraction they made was suspect, but if they had gotten away with it, who is to say how much more they would try to get away with next race based on the theory "they allowed this, lets push it to THAT".

I think the NEXT penalty of messing with the COT might ramp up the price. NASCAR is taking a ton of heat for this, but they are always of the opinion they don't want to suspend popular drivers. Would Jeff or Jimmie fans boycott if either was suspended for a race? NASCAR doesn't want to go down that road. I think though they should be really harsh at some point, and if they started with Knaus, it would acknowledge to everyone they were serious about cheating. He isn't the only cheater out there, RCR and Gibbs have been nailed with some of their teams, and Roush occasionally gets caught with some engine parts that are not approved, but Knaus seems to be the poster child. OF course, 5 years from now, he will have a job with NASCAR catching these guys......so there you go, there is irony for you...

leopard

28th June 2007, 03:42

Sparky1329

28th June 2007, 04:21

yeah, but decreasing the point has a danger Jimmie could be out of the top 12

Not a chance. He's over 200 points away from being 12th. Granted it's not impossible but he and a few others would have to have a lot of lousy luck in the next 10 races for it to happen.

leopard

28th June 2007, 04:41

yeah, unless his team makes violation on every race and he get point penalties for it. :D

Sparky1329

28th June 2007, 04:46

yeah, unless his team makes violation on every race and he get point penalties for it. :D

Chad Knaus is gutsy but I don't think he's that stupid. ;)

leopard

28th June 2007, 04:53

Chad Knaus is gutsy but I don't think he's that stupid. ;)
That's the problem, fining the team boss is more proper punishment instead of point penalty

tassiedevilAB

28th June 2007, 05:38

Now is the time the other teams have got to wreck those 2 week in & week out to have a chance at the end, that's the only way of getting back at cheaters that do this time & time again, but remember they have to be wrecked very early in the race & dnf for them to really be punished, then you will see the true side of Jeffypoo & Jimjill & THE PRESSURE ON THERE TEAMS WILL BE GOOD TO SEE!

blakebeatty

28th June 2007, 05:41

Chad Knaus is gutsy but I don't think he's that stupid. ;)

Chad Knaus is BRILLIANT

Sparky1329

28th June 2007, 15:48

Chad Knaus is BRILLIANT

He is that. He has an impressive laundy list of offfenses but he still manages to get away with a slap on the wrist. That's brilliant.

muggle not

28th June 2007, 17:16

blakebeatty

28th June 2007, 17:28

I think we see the true side of the person making this stupid post. Need I say more.

No, I agree with him, but I think we should just kill Jimmie and Jeff outright, then no one else has to worry about getting caught up in these wrecks.

PS (sarcasm)

Sparky1329

28th June 2007, 18:05

I think we see the true side of the person making this stupid post. Need I say more.

No more needed. I was going to respond but that would just encourage more posts like that one.

muggle not

28th June 2007, 21:42

Hendrick will not appeal penalties against teams
Car chiefs to assume roles atop pit boxes in the interim
By Official Release
June 28, 2007
12:08 PM EDT

type size: + -CONCORD, N.C. -- Car owner Rick Hendrick on Thursday confirmed that the sanctions levied by NASCAR on Tuesday against the Nos. 24 and 48 Nextel Cup Series teams will not be appealed by Hendrick Motorsports.

"The penalties are excessive," Hendrick reiterated, "but we're not going to put time and resources into issuing an appeal. Instead, we will direct that energy into our internal processes to make sure we have full confidence that our cars will meet standards when presented for inspection each week.

"We've said from the beginning that this would be a learning process [with the Car of Tomorrow] and there would be a lot of give and take between NASCAR and the teams to figure it out. That doesn't seem to be the case now, and I don't think it's the right direction to go."

No. 24 car chief Jeff Meendering and No. 48 car chief Ron Malec have been named interim crew chiefs for their respective teams beginning with Sunday's Nextel Cup event at New Hampshire International Speedway.

"In Jeff and Ron, we have two guys who know their teams inside and out," Hendrick said. "They both have been here a long time, they both know the pressures involved and they both have the full support of our entire organization. We don't expect to miss a beat."

Meendering, 30, began his Hendrick Motorsports career in October of 1994 sweeping floors in the chassis shop as a 16-year-old high-school junior. He has since won 10 NASCAR championships as a member of the organization.

"Jeff is my go-to guy. We have similar backgrounds and we've both been here [with Hendrick Motorsports] a long time," said Steve Letarte, crew chief for the No. 24. "This is a tough pill to swallow for me, but he'll do a great job leading the team and keeping things moving in a positive direction. We'll rally and Jeff will get more support from the organization than you can imagine."

From Grand Rapids, Mich., Meendering joined the No. 24 team in 2000 under crew chief Robbie Loomis, working as a setup specialist and mechanic before being promoted to car chief in September of 2005.

"It's been a great season so far and we have a really strong, championship-caliber team in place," Letarte said. "The penalties are unfortunate and severe, but we'll put the situation behind us and focus on winning a fifth championship for the No. 24 team."

A Franklin, Wis., native, Malec has a long history with driver Jimmie Johnson. The pair met more than a decade ago when Johnson was racing off-road trucks, and they later became roommates when both were involved in the American Speed Association.

Malec and Johnson each moved to North Carolina in 1999 and again worked alongside one another in the Busch Series before joining Hendrick Motorsports in 2001 as original members of the No. 48 team. Malec has been car chief for Johnson's entire Cup career.

The 32-year-old Malec, also the rear-tire carrier for the No. 48 team, will be supported on race day by veteran crew chief Lance McGrew. McGrew won the 2003 Busch Series championship with driver Brian Vickers and has posted victories in each of NASCAR's top three divisions. He is also familiar with Johnson after working as his Busch Series crew chief this season.

"Ron is the only car chief I've ever had on the No. 48 team," said Chad Knaus, crew chief for the No. 48. He knows the guys better than anyone and they all have a ton of respect for him and what he's accomplished. Ron has been our backbone from the beginning and he'll do a terrific job.

"It's not the way I wanted to see him get an opportunity, but he's ready and more than capable of getting it done. I'm grateful to have talented guys like Ron and Lance available. It just goes to show how deep this organization is."

Knaus and Letarte will resume at-track duties for their respective teams at the Aug. 19 Nextel Cup Series event at Michigan International Speedway.

"It's definitely disappointing, but we have a very capable and committed team. For whatever reason, we seem to thrive on adversity," Knaus said. "We've overcome challenges in the past and I know we'll get through this as well. I didn't feel like we were outside the box in Sonoma, but that's NASCAR's call and they made it."

harvick#1

28th June 2007, 23:05

Much as I still enjoy the guy's opinion, i think that a separate forum needs to be created for all of the old school fans at http://harvick#1.motorsportsforums.com

if you don't like it, then don't listen, Knaus keeps egging Nascar to do something and they do nothing, its gettin pathetic, he gets suspended every year now for blantant cheating moves and they give him a slap on the wrist.

also like I said earlier, Nascar doesn't want any team to modify the CoT's exterior, thats the rules, there are no grey areas on the car, what Nascar made is what nascar wants. no adusting the fenders, the air dam, whatever. they will be punished for tampering with it, even if the cars still meet the templetes, they don't want anything else done on the car thats not approved by nascar on the CoT.

thats why Nascar made the car. too make it more like a stock car and too end all this aero-crap. they don't want teams to start researching how to add more downforce by adjust the fenders, they will be caught and punished.

Lee Roy

29th June 2007, 15:52

The points penalty is meaningless. After 26 races the system locks in the top 12 and the other guys just ride around for the rest of the season. Jimmie lost two spots which means nothing under the current system and Jeff is still leading the points. No big deal.

Wow. People used to complain that NASCAR was never consistent in its assessment of penalties. Now that they are being consistent, some people don't like that and feel that NASCAR should be arbitrary with their penalties.

:confused:

trumperZ06

29th June 2007, 17:39

thats why Nascar made the car. too make it more like a stock car and too end all this aero-crap. they don't want teams to start researching how to add more downforce by adjust the fenders, they will be caught and punished.

:dozey: Hhmmm... and just What is "STOCK" on the car of tomorrow ???

NA$CAR's simply repeating their model from Grand Sham...
interesting racing with some Good.... up & coming drivers... but

It's Spec Car racing.. just as the Cup series is becoming !!! ;)

R. Mears

29th June 2007, 19:44

Lets just put em all in IROC cars and be done with it. Same engines ect.
Then they're all even no team/driver will have a mechanical advantage.

Wouldn't that be boring...

Lee Roy

29th June 2007, 20:06

Lets just put em all in IROC cars and be done with it. Same engines ect.
Then they're all even no team/driver will have a mechanical advantage.

Wouldn't that be boring...

It would be the last time I would watch or even concern myself about the results.

Sparky1329

29th June 2007, 21:14

Wow. People used to complain that NASCAR was never consistent in its assessment of penalties. Now that they are being consistent, some people don't like that and feel that NASCAR should be arbitrary with their penalties.

:confused:

Huh? Where did I post that or have you taken up mind reading or post twisting in your spare time? This is what I posted on Page 1: "Well it's the same penalty the #8 team got so at least NASCAR is consistent on this one."

Lee Roy

29th June 2007, 21:27

Huh? Where did I post that or have you taken up mind reading or post twisting in your spare time? This is what I posted on Page 1: "Well it's the same penalty the #8 team got so at least NASCAR is consistent on this one."

Yeah, I was adding in more than you actually said. Sorry. But I was reading an article yesterday that sounded almost the same as what you said. The author was saying how the penalty was meaningless given Jeff and Jimmy's place in the standings. I think the penalty is very meaningful, especially the part that takes away the Crew Chief for 6 races. That could have a very significant impact on the effected teams.

Sorry to add more in than you actually mentioned.

Sparky1329

30th June 2007, 01:33

Yeah, I was adding in more than you actually said. Sorry. But I was reading an article yesterday that sounded almost the same as what you said. The author was saying how the penalty was meaningless given Jeff and Jimmy's place in the standings. I think the penalty is very meaningful, especially the part that takes away the Crew Chief for 6 races. That could have a very significant impact on the effected teams.

Sorry to add more in than you actually mentioned.

Thank you.

R. Mears

1st July 2007, 11:54

It seems to me a 100 point penalty and a $100,000 fine with a 6 race suspension for a non race infraction is way too much. Also it wasn't even during qualifing if I'm not mistaken. I think nascar is slowy ruining the sport. I for one don't watch or care about it as much as I used to. And when Tony George introduced his irl cars to indy and kicked out the cart cars to help his irl series succeed that's when I stopped going to the indy 500.

Why does everything have to get ruined by big money/business and politics? :mad:

harvick#1

1st July 2007, 14:26

Why does everything have to get ruined by big money/business and politics? :mad:

cause thats the way the world works now :s

muggle not

5th July 2007, 04:41

Eury, Jr rips NASCAR over unclear COT rules, defends Hendrick crew chiefs (http://autoracingsport.com/nascar/eury-jr-rips-nascar-over-unclear-cot-rules-defends-hendrick-crew-chiefs/)

Dale Earnhardt, Jr’s crew chief Tony Eury, Jr is unhappy over the way NASCAR is policing the new rules for the ‘Car of Tomorrow’ and is letting NASCAR know it.
Eury, Jr is just coming off the first COT-related suspension for illegal brackets placed on the No. 8 at Darlington six weeks ago and sees the latest penalties handed down to Hendrick crew chiefs Steve Latarte (Jeff Gordon) and Chad Knaus (Jimmie Johnson) as unfair.
“Everybody [in the garage] is scared to death, saying ‘Where do I cross the line?’ said Eury, Jr. And there’s going to be guys that cross it. It’s like [Chad Knaus and Steve Letarte] — they didn’t know they were crossing it. They stepped out in the street and a bus hit ‘em. That ain’t right.”
Nextel Cup director John Darby isn’t apologizing. He said Tuesday the sanctioning body is merely following up on a promise.
“The problem I have with all [the criticism] is … don’t act surprised,” Darby said. “We told the world where we were going. We told the teams what we were going to do before we did it. Now all we’re doing is backing up what we told everybody, and we’ll continue to do that.”
For the record, Eury understands and accepts his penalty, despite lingering frustration that, in his opinion, the illegal brackets placed on the No. 8 at Darlington were actually a disadvantage. The penalties levied against Knaus and Letarte, though?
“My deal? Yeah, I’ll take my six weeks and [$100,000] and go on,” Eury said. “That’s what I should’ve got. But what [NASCAR] did to the 24 and 48, I think [NASCAR] blindsided everybody and put everybody on pins and needles.”
Eury, Jr admits that the current trend of NASCAR’s rule book is getting more restrictive thus diminishing the enjoyment factor.
“That’s my biggest [problem]. I think [NASCAR’s] trying to light a fire under everybody, but they’re also creating a problem for themselves. It’s been getting less and less fun the last three years. And all [NASCAR’s] doing is making it worse.”
Eury said he’s all for reducing the number of cars in a team’s fleet. He appreciates the thought that teams can run the same car at Infineon and Daytona. But there have to be alteration tolerances for the teams.
“There’s a way to do this together,” he said. “We can paint lines and say ‘That guy is wrong, this guy’s right.’ Right now it’s [NASCAR’s] way or no way. It needs to be all of us working together to determine what works and what don’t.
“I was 2,000 miles away [from Sonoma] and knew exactly what [Knaus and Letarte] done, and I said, ‘Hell, that’s no big deal.’ I want some lines painted. I honestly don’t think those guys did anything wrong. NASCAR does, though, and it’s their ballgame.”