Liuzzi vs Speed

[johnny shell]

I generally read where peeps tend to give the nod to Liuzzi over Speed.

It's hard for me to follow F1 from here since it's not on regular TV or ever regular cable, but from what I can tell from the stats they seem to be pretty evenly matched.

what's up?

[taffy]

I would agree that they are evenly matched, they both consitantly crash and fail to finish races.. If I were Gerhard Berger I would replace both of them!!!

[Ranger]

Speed IMO has done a better job than Liuzzi this year, but as far as overall performances go, they've both been pretty anonymous.

[luvracin]

IMO Speed's strength is making the most of the starts, but his weakness is patience. He seems to try so hard to do well(to save his job?) IMO he overdrives himself and the car.

Liuzzi i think is a little more consistent and calmer but, he seems to be less "visible" so I really don't know where he lies in terms of outright speed. This could be because I get the "SPEED" coverage here in the USA and they concentrate more on... umm... Speed. :p :

[johnny shell]

I think they both wreck because they're pushing pushing pushing... finding the limits of themselves & their cars. tyring new things. thinking outside the box.

don't a lot of fast young drivers start off that way?

[truefan72]

Liuzzi may be a bit more consistent, but consistently less agggressive and consequently a bit slower. Speed is more aggressive and usually a faster driver. He has a bit more upside than Liuzzi and would do well in a better car. Liuzzi to me is like a career servicable driver, while Speed looks more like a kimi in terms of whipping a car around the track.

Let's see them with the seamless gearbox now. Hopefully it should brighten both their fortunes.

[call_me_andrew]

I'd say their about equally weak.

[stevie_gerrard]

there are equally matched, but i prefer liuzzi to speed, he seems to be the less erratic.

[Dazz9908]

IMO
Liuzzi is the faster but more erratic and inconsistent.
Speed is way slower plods along picking up place due to failure or mistake by others, Is no means a racer.
Neither have impressed greatly this year. but Liuzzi has out shone Speed in the same car.

[Racehound]

I would agree that they are evenly matched, they both consitantly crash and fail to finish races.. If I were Gerhard Berger I would replace both of them!!!
ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!....nice 1 taffy :) personally, i couldnt care less about either of them, they will never be wdc , but at least liuzzi got rid of that rat-tails hair he used to have!!!!!!!!! :vader:

[Sleeper]

I'd say that Speed appears to be the better racer of the two, but Liuzzi seems to be much better at qualifying the car. I've seen plenty of races this year were Speed has gained a lot of places off the grid, and Liuzzi has gone the other way. As for how fast they are it seems they are about equal, but since Liuzzi came into F1 with a big reputation behind him as "the next big thing" he's done nothing but badley disappoint, were as Speed has, if not impressed, hardly embarrassed himself.

[tintop]

I'd say that Speed appears to be the better racer of the two, but Liuzzi seems to be much better at qualifying the car. I've seen plenty of races this year were Speed has gained a lot of places off the grid, and Liuzzi has gone the other way. As for how fast they are it seems they are about equal, but since Liuzzi came into F1 with a big reputation behind him as "the next big thing" he's done nothing but badley disappoint, were as Speed has, if not impressed, hardly embarrassed himself.

Perfectly said!

Let's face it, the whole RB effort is pretty pitiful.

[codalunga]

I would agree that they are evenly matched, they both consitantly crash and fail to finish races..

The teams don't usually hold accidents caused by others, tire and mechanical problems against the drivers. At best, Speed has one driver influenced DNF for the season, and that is questionable as many think Wurtz chopped him.

[tintop]

The teams don't usually hold accidents caused by others, tire and mechanical problems against the drivers. At best, Speed has one driver influenced DNF for the season, and that is questionable as many think Wurtz chopped him.

Good points, I suspect that they fall right into the "most likely to get taken out grid positions" statistically - just a few spots ahead of Spyker and the engine blow-ups on the starts

[leopard]

From what I know 'speed' is usually faster than 'lazy'
Hope this helps

[wmcot]

Might I suggest flipping a coin?

[millencolin]

I think they both wreck because they're pushing pushing pushing... finding the limits of themselves & their cars. tyring new things. thinking outside the box.

don't a lot of fast young drivers start off that way?


but they have a years experience under thier belts now, they shouldnt be crashing. Hamilton isnt crashing, Heikki hasnt crashed as much as Liuzzi and Speed, Rosberg wasn't much of a crasher in his debut year last year...

Simply i think Speed isnt living up to his namesake and will probably be booted at seasons end replaced by Bourdais

[jens]

I agree with those, who say that VL and SS are quite equal. Both are fast, but are also a bit inconsistent. About crashes. Well, Spyker drivers crash pretty often too, don't they? The backmarkers have to risk a lot to keep the pace of faster cars and that's why they sometimes appear to be overdriving their cars.

[Allyc85]

well Speeds had a lot of bad luck this year, with being taken out in Bahrain and having punctures in spain and Oz. Give him a decent run with no problems n i think he will turn into a decent driver.

[VkmSpouge]

Speed and Liuzzi are both evenly matched and prone to making errors. It wouldn't surprise me if they both lost their race seats at the end of the year.

[pits4me]

but they have a years experience under thier belts now, they shouldnt be crashing. Hamilton isnt crashing, Heikki hasnt crashed as much as Liuzzi and Speed, Rosberg wasn't much of a crasher in his debut year last year...

Simply i think Speed isnt living up to his namesake and will probably be booted at seasons end replaced by Bourdais

Much depends on where they start on the grid. It all gets back to qualies in my opinion. The only benchmark is 3rd tier equipment.

[RaikkonenRules]

Scott Speed has a best finish of 9th this year. Luizzi's best finish this year is 14th if that helps. :)

[truefan72]

but they have a years experience under thier belts now, they shouldnt be crashing. Hamilton isnt crashing, Heikki hasnt crashed as much as Liuzzi and Speed, Rosberg wasn't much of a crasher in his debut year last year...

Simply i think Speed isnt living up to his namesake and will probably be booted at seasons end replaced by Bourdais

Whaaaaat?

go back and look at Rosberg's first year, Look at Heikke this year, speed has had 1 crash incident, Liuzzi a couple more...which is the difference between them.

If anyone is leaving it is probably Liuzzi who has simply done nothing in his entire F1 career, Rember that Speed would have gotten points last year if stupid DC hadn't cried like a baby to the stewards.
I can name several great races by Speed and can'tthink of any by Liuzzi. Don't hold it against him becuase of his name or nationality. The boy can drive.

[truefan72]

Speed and Liuzzi are both evenly matched and prone to making errors. It wouldn't surprise me if they both lost their race seats at the end of the year.

explain to me where speed made errors in driving in 2007 races please

btw Liuzzi is also gaining a reputation as tough guy to pass, ala Trulli. Not because of speed but just frustrationg driving style. Even to those trying to lap him. I have heard more than one driver comment ant his frustration about Liuzzi not acknowledging the blue flags in a timely fashion.

[codalunga]

Scott Speed has a best finish of 9th this year. Luizzi's best finish this year is 14th if that helps. :)

Someone pointed out before the USGP that of the (then) 20 starts by all cars from RB and STR in '07, Speed had the second best finish.

[rlenis]

my two cents on this..
Liuzzi seems to be faster but Speed appears to be the better racing driver.

[e2mtt]

Luizzi does consistantly out-qualify Speed. However, Speed has shown great early-race aggressivness (with the occasional resulting wreck) and then consistant race speed. Luizzi seems to start less well, but makes himself exceptionally hard to pass. (Makes for lots of TV time, but unhappy fellow drivers.)

Neither one has done anything spectacular enough to get a better ride yet.

[aryan]

Pino, can we have a a poll on this please? With the following options

Liuzzi
Speed
Equal

Thanks.

[Mirabeau]

Speed has impressed me a lot more than Liuzzi has. Even though Liuzzi has outscored Speed in points, 1-0, you can't forget that Speed outqualified Liuzzi at Indy in 2006, and was taken out in a first turn collision. If he would have made it through the first turn, he probably would have finished in the points instead of Liuzzi. Speed had a great run at Monaco this year, where Liuzzi wrecked. Speed also has had terrible luck as far as mechanical DNFs. He had tyre punctures in Melbourne and Catalunya, and he was caught up in somebody elses mess in Bahrain. I would replace Liuzzi if I were GB.

[Zico]

Speed also has had terrible luck as far as mechanical DNFs


...or something to with his driving style? ;)

[Garry Walker]

Both Liuzzi and Speed should be given the kick, they clearly are not up to it.

[Nikki Katz]

While I think that a lineup of Bourdais and Vettel next year is a little optimistic, I can't really see either driver being in F1 next year. In order to make an impression at a backmarker team you need to outperform your teammate. These two seem evenly matched, as others have said with Liuzzi qualifying better and Speed making up places at the start. But the only thing people really remember these two for is the amount of time they spend in gravel traps, particuarly in races where they could have lucked in a point.

[truefan72]

Both Liuzzi and Speed should be given the kick, they clearly are not up to it.


Well now that they have a better gearbox, we will see how they do, Friday practice wasn't too bad. 3rd and 5th fastes in FP2 isn't to be dismissed, especially when you look at the times.

I was impressed

[pino]

Pino, can we have a a poll on this please? With the following options

Liuzzi
Speed
Equal

Thanks.

Sorry I've just noticed this, next time please PM me ;)

[Cozzie]

Neel Jani ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I generally read where peeps tend to give the nod to Liuzzi over Speed.

It's hard for me to follow F1 from here since it's not on regular TV or ever regular cable, but from what I can tell from the stats they seem to be pretty evenly matched.

what's up?

If you have high speed internet and want to watch it, send me a PM.

[xyz123]

At the start of 06 Liuzzi definitely had an upper hand but ever since the middle of last year Speed has been the better of the two.

A statisitic that backs this up.

Since Canada last year, which was the first time Speed beat Liuzzi, there have been 7 races that both Toro Rossos have finished. The score in those 7 races is 5-2 to Speed.

[jens]

Interesting notice that Liuzzi has looked a better qualifier and Speed a better racer this year. It was totally the opposite last year! I think Scott outqualified Tonio on most of the occasions in the second half of 2006, but in the race Tonio managed to at least keep (and sometimes drive faster) Scott's pace.

[N. Jones]

I agree with the above. They both are too inconsistent regardless of how well they do in parts of the race. Its the whole race distance that matters and so far neither have seen the checkered flag very often this season.

[codalunga]

I agree with the above. They both are too inconsistent regardless of how well they do in parts of the race. Its the whole race distance that matters and so far neither have seen the checkered flag very often this season.

True, their finishing has been inconclusive. OTOH, look at potential. Most of the DNFs are not driver induced and Speed has been one of the more prolific passers in the field both his F1 seasons. Both STRs in the top five after second qualifying in France and Speed's magnificant drive at Monaco shows potential. Unfortunately F1 spits a lot of drivers out before they reach the number of starts Ralf, Mansell, Hak or Irvine had before their first wins.

[ShiftingGears]

I get the feeling that if you replaced either of them with Bourdais, you aren't going to get better results. At least with Speed and Liuzzi they aren't great bloody whingers like Bourdais is.

[johnny shell]

hey valvebounce- thanks for that. my internet connection sucks though - I think I just need to hook up the old VCR to my girlfriend's satelite dish.

Mr G Berger knows how to spot talent, I'm sure. Sea Bass would be a decent addition - but to really get results in that car they need somone with truely magical ability - which none of the three currently being talked about have.

[markabilly]

More duh comments from folks--put them both at McLAren and then see who survives--or put hamie with luzzie and speedie at red bull, and see how bad everyone will be saying that hamie trully is (pun intended)

[Placid]

Liuzzi and Speed are very decent.

However, Speed is lacking on how hold that position as he is getting passed.

[truefan72]

Liuzzi and Speed are very decent.

However, Speed is lacking on how hold that position as he is getting passed.

That is completely untrue, In fact the opposite can be said in terms of Liuzzi. Fact is speed rarily gets passed and does most of the passing himself.

In speed's 3 races he has completed he was 14th, 9th and 13th, Here is his season to date

Australia started p 17 ,retired ahead of Liuzzi (who was in an accident to be fair) and DC with a wheel problem on lap 22.

Malaysia started 17th, finished 14th, ahead of VL who statred 16 and finished 18, as well as ahead of Kubica, Davidson, and ralf Schumacher who also completed the race

Bahrein, started 19 was out at the first lap incident with Button, meanwhile VL retired lapo 26

Spain, started 22 after Quali problems, and went from 22 to 14 at the start before retiring on lap 8 with mechanical failure, VL started 16 went up to 15 and was overtaken by Webber before retiring on lap 19. Webber couldn't overtake Speed during their racing.

Monaco, Qualified 18 finished 9th in the most techincal and tightest track, ahead of these drivers who completed the race; Rubens Barrichello, Jenson Button, Nico Rosberg, Heikki Kovalainen, David Coulthard, Jarno Trulli, Ralf Schumacher, Takuma Sato, Anthony Davidson
Liuzzi was out after a lap 1 crash


Canada started 16 and was taken out by Wurz on lap 8. Liuzzi qualified well in 12th, and was in an accident on lap 54 running 6th IMO his best race

USA started 20th finished 13, At the start move up to 14, and ran a solid race with VL who qualified 19 and ran the entire race behind Speed until he retired on lap 68.

France, qualified 15 and retired on lap 55 in 11th position with Technical issues. VL started 17 and had an accident on lap 1

Britain, qualified 14th was running as high as 11, and after his pit stop was invloved in an accident on lap 29. Liuzzi started 15 and ran as high as 14th, and then retired a few laps after his second pit stop on lap 53 in 13th postion.

Europe, we all know what happened there

so where exactly do your comments have merit.

[truefan72]

More duh comments from folks--put them both at McLAren and then see who survives--or put hamie with luzzie and speedie at red bull, and see how bad everyone will be saying that hamie trully is (pun intended)

another useless opportunity to bash Hamilton.
LOL

[markabilly]

That ain't bashing, it is the truth, I can just see Tost knocking on Hamie's head about his performance--except maybe hamie would have knocked the snoot out of the german he-man, so maybe scott needs to move on......

[sukabumi]

don't forget STR is a bad car anyway...it has a Ferrari engine but still can not run good. I think Speed is a bit faster than Tonio. Speed will race in the CC nxt season or even in the next coming week...

[truefan72]

That ain't bashing, it is the truth, I can just see Tost knocking on Hamie's head about his performance--except maybe hamie would have knocked the snoot out of the german he-man, so maybe scott needs to move on......

listen,

every single post in every single thread you post on is about Hamilton ( not your dumb "Hamie" interpretation) and is usually about undermining his skills and results. You must have some personal issue with the current rookie, WDC leader and 2 time GP winner in 2007. What is it? Is it his race? is it the fact that he drives for McClaren? I seriously suspect the former in your case. Or maybe you are just obsessed with him in the wrong kind of way and can't cope with it.
The fact that you seek every opportunity to mention him no matter the topic and usually in a disparaging manner is clearly a sign of a tortured soul. I wish you all the best as you fight your "hamie" demons. May a good priest excorcise your soul.

[markabilly]

listen,

every single post in every single thread you post on is about Hamilton ( not your dumb "Hamie" interpretation) and is usually about undermining his skills and results. You must have some personal issue with the current rookie, WDC leader and 2 time GP winner in 2007. What is it? Is it his race? is it the fact that he drives for McClaren? I seriously suspect the former in your case. Or maybe you are just obsessed with him in the wrong kind of way and can't cope with it.
The fact that you seek every opportunity to mention him no matter the topic and usually in a disparaging manner is clearly a sign of a tortured soul. I wish you all the best as you fight your "hamie" demons. May a good priest excorcise your soul.


Everyone is wetting themselves over wowo what a hambone hamie be---well I say put Luizzie or scottie in the car and hamie in the red bull, everyone would be talkin what a disaapointment Hamie turned out to be...and how great.... :o

[truefan72]

Everyone is wetting themselves over wowo what a hambone hamie be---well I say put Luizzie or scottie in the car and hamie in the red bull, everyone would be talkin what a disaapointment Hamie turned out to be...and how great.... :o

man you have disturbing issues

[jens]

The issue with Speed and Liuzzi is that they crash too often. Last year was their first full season in F1 and I thought that okay - learning period for a rookie. But this year they have tended to crash even more often. Sutil will be in similar situation next year - then he has to crash less than in 2007.

What is amazing that Liuzzi has finished a GP only twice this season! Australian and Malaysian Grand Prix's. Although he was classified at Silverstone (retiring 3 laps before the end), he has basically had 8 retirements in a row! And as at Sepang Liuzzi had a start accident, then he has had a problemfree race only in Australia this season...