Characters from the past.

[futuretiger9]

One thing often said to be lacking from modern motor racing is the charismatic, extrovert or likeable driver.

Some examples from the 70s:-


Patrick Depailler - a real "boy racer"

Vittorio Brambilla - an enthusiastic, uncomplicated racer

Arturo Merzario - an eccentric figure, with his slim frame and cowboy hat, who sat so low in the car that he could hardly see where he was going.

Clay Regazzoni - the archetypal Grand Prix driver

Who else from the past would fall into this category?

[ShiftingGears]

Gilles Villeneuve - THE racing driver

James Hunt - Playboy World Champion

[wedge]

Graham Hill was quite a character. A bit of a ladies' man, a true gent, a great guest and host. No-one ever had a bad word to say about him.

Have you seen the movie 'Grand Prix'? He plays himself and everyone mentions "that's what Graham was like in real life".

[Garry Walker]

If you want character, then James Hunt is the man.

[D-Type]

Another view of Graham Hill:

The Earl of March (of Goodwood fame) writes of when he was six or seven years and was seeking autographs of drivers attending a party at Goodwood house:
"There was one time when I went up to a driver whose name I hadn't collected. He said 'You don't want my autograph young man - I'm not famous enough. You want that chap's over there'. And he propelled me over to graham Hill, who was holding forth to a group of guests. I didn't, in fact, want his autograph because I already had it. But graham looked down at this small boy with his plastic autograph book and said, simply 'Bugger off!' ~".

[Mintexmemory]

Funnily enough that's what GH said to me at Brands in 1968 when I was 13.
Button seems to be his spiritual successor.
My character: Rene Arnoux , mad as a box of frogs and always racing whether 1st or 21st

[Easy Drifter]

Innes Ireland , Harry Schell, Duncan Hamilton.

[BDunnell]

Not much of an extrovert, but one of my favourite characters from F1 history is Eric Thompson, better known as an Aston sportscar driver. He worked as a stockbroker while not racing, and drove in the 1952 British GP for Connaught. It was his second ever F1 start, and his last, in spite of finishing fifth. When he got back to work on the Monday, there was some interest in this, notably because of a newspaper article about his exploit charmingly headed 'City Gent's Turn of Speed'. Delightful.

Read more about him here — http://www.f1rejects.com/drivers/thompson/biography.html

[D-Type]

I think that in their own way today's crop of drivers are probably as much of 'characters' as in the past but the world has changed so much.

What the drivers are allowed to say is strictly controlled by the teams and sponsors. I remember Keke Rosberg saying "I am not allowed to tell you what I think of the car, but if I was I would say it is sh*t!" or words to that effect.

The drivers have to come over as 'nice guys' - just look at the criticism that Hakkinen got for replying with one word answers. So they are schooled in PR-speak.

We live in an age of 'instant' information - a race on TV, the televised 'drivers' press conference' immediately afterwards, the reports on the internet on Sunday evening and in the daily newpaper the next day. Pre-internet and pre-TV we relied on what the magazines said. Writers today don't have the time to compose elegant descriptions and we don't have the time to read them as we are too busy watching Big Brother or The Weakest Link on TV.

Magazine writers and editors were out-and-out motor racing enthusiastsenthusiasts - Gregor Grant, Denis Jenkinson, Henry Manney, Jabby Combrac, Alan Henry, Nigel Roebuck etc. Nowadays they are 'trained journalists' who have been through the college of knowledge and are doing their spell as correspondent on Auto*** or F1 *** before progressing to senior correspondent on the Pig Breeders' Quarterly or deputy editor of Needlepoint and Embroidery or other such worthy publicationse. They don't know the sport. They don't get a chance to know the drivers. They are pushed to tell the public what the editors think they want to hear. Just look at the way the British press ignore Jenson Button now they have Lewis Hamilton to eulogise.

I forget which correspondent it was who drove out of Brescia to a small village to file his Mille Miglia report just so he could give it the byline - Gorgonzola. With characters like that writing the reports its inevitable that the drivers were reported as having more personality.

Having said all that, I'll leave my choice of characters from the past for a later posting.

[gm99]

My favorite character from F1's past has got to be Lotus boss Colin Chapman - he was pushing the boundaries like no-one else, sometimes too far and thus represented all of what F1 used to be: Technical innovation and risk taking.

The images of him tossing his cap in the air in celebration of yet another Lotus victory are also legendary.

[Rollo]

Sir Stirling Moss for my money is perhaps the greatest gentleman to have ever driven in Formula One. He was concerned that how you win a grand prix was as important as the fact that you did.

In fact it probably cost him the 1958 World Championship after he defended Mike Hawthorn's actions in that GP. Hawthorn had his points reinstated by the FIA and Moss lost the championship by 1 point.

On the radio he comes across as a passionate but equally proper sort of person. It actually brings in to light why feels a little sheepish when Fangio "gave" (?) him the British GP.

[AAReagles]

... Magazine writers and editors were out-and-out motor racing enthusiastsenthusiasts - Gregor Grant, Denis Jenkinson, Henry Manney, Jabby Combrac, Alan Henry, Nigel Roebuck etc.... Nowadays they are 'trained journalists' who have been through the college of knowledge and are doing their spell as correspondent on Auto*** or F1 *** before progressing to senior correspondent on the Pig Breeders' Quarterly or deputy editor of Needlepoint and Embroidery or other such worthy publicationse. They don't know the sport. They don't get a chance to know the drivers. They are pushed to tell the public what the editors think they want to hear...

Which is why I don't bother with most motor sport publications nowadays. Except for the mags Motorsport and Vintage Racing. They can keep the rest.

[Mintexmemory]

They give Max a very favourable press and are exceedingly sychophantic regarding anything Goodwood-related! One imagines Andrew Frankel tugging his forelock when speaking to Lord March - a bit like the character, Ted, from the 'Fast Show'.

[BDunnell]

They give Max a very favourable press and are exceedingly sychophantic regarding anything Goodwood-related! One imagines Andrew Frankel tugging his forelock when speaking to Lord March - a bit like the character, Ted, from the 'Fast Show'.

I have a particular problem with Simon Taylor's current series of fawning interviews. Ironically, the one with Mosley probably elicited the most interesting responses of all, to do with his views on historic racing.

I do sympathise with modern-day F1 journalists, though, because getting access to drivers and senior team members is so dependent on not writing anything other than the line they want to put across that it is difficult to end up with anything other than bland pieces. In my own field of specialist journalism, there is much the same problem a lot of the time. However, there are still ways of writing that lessen the effect, and I wish certain motorsport journalists would notice them.

The 'old guard' of journalists aren't immune from annoying habits, either. Nigel Roebuck recycles the same stories so often that I reckon I could write a piece under his name about, say, Gilles Villeneuve, submit it and have it published as one of his columns. Of course, I exaggerate, but not by much.

Nigel Roebuck recycles the same stories so often that I reckon I could write a piece under his name about, say, Gilles Villeneuve, submit it and have it published as one of his columns. Of course, I exaggerate, but not by much.

Now on that I do agree.

I don't think Roebuck can use a keyboard without typing the word "Gilles".

[futuretiger9]

My favorite character from F1's past has got to be Lotus boss Colin Chapman - he was pushing the boundaries like no-one else, sometimes too far and thus represented all of what F1 used to be: Technical innovation and risk taking.

The images of him tossing his cap in the air in celebration of yet another Lotus victory are also legendary.


Yes, of course the characters in bygone days were not necessarily just the drivers. You had team owners like Chapman, Teddy Mayer, Ken Tyrrell and Rob Walker, and engineers such as Mauro Forghieri, Gordon Murray and Tony Rudd. There were journalists like Jabby Crombac and Jenks. Even race officials such as Louis Chiron added to the flavour - who was the guy in blazer, red trousers and flat cap who used to start the Spanish GP in the 60s and 70s?

[champcarray]

I was a Watkins Glen regular in the late 70s and greatly enjoyed my glimpse into the F1 circus. I got a kick out of seeing Vittorio Brambilla mentioned in the first post. He was something else. He must be the only driver to win a race and then crash on his victory lap! It was raining, but let's face it, the moment was pure Vittorio.

The comments about asking drivers for autographs brought back some memories, too. My brother and I approached Jody Scheckter for his autograph about an hour after a race at The Glen one year. Jody wasn't a character, but he did have a sense of humor. It turns out he was on his way to the helipad, so he looked at my brother, said "I'll sign your program if you carry my bag!," and then handed my brother his overnight bag! We trotted alongside Jody as he signed our program, re-swapped bag for program, and waved to him as he climbed aboard and soared away.

[woody2goody]

Two of the most prominent characters for me in F1 are recent, but relevant nontheless.

Eddie Irvine - maverick, outspoken, a 4-time grand prix winner and a one-time championship contender.

Juan Pablo Montoya - feisty, confrontational, very quick, great qualifier, 7 wins, another one time championship contender.

[Azumanga Davo]

Vittorio Brambilla - an enthusiastic, uncomplicated racer

The first name that came into my head. To win your only grand prix and accidentally stuff it into the wall after the line? Priceless... :D

Anyone metion Teddy Yip (sp?) yet? Apparently a character and a half too.

Looked at the names so far. No Lord Hesketh? Shame... :D

[wedge]

Another view of Graham Hill:

The Earl of March (of Goodwood fame) writes of when he was six or seven years and was seeking autographs of drivers attending a party at Goodwood house:
"There was one time when I went up to a driver whose name I hadn't collected. He said 'You don't want my autograph young man - I'm not famous enough. You want that chap's over there'. And he propelled me over to graham Hill, who was holding forth to a group of guests. I didn't, in fact, want his autograph because I already had it. But graham looked down at this small boy with his plastic autograph book and said, simply 'Bugger off!' ~".

Oooooh! Never knew about that! That sort of thing Nigel Roebuck doesn't write often about is it?!

Mansell is my all-time hero and lives up to that status because he has time for the fans. He would be quite happy signing autographs all day than do a corporate event, that's for sure!

Watching the early 1980s season reviews on youtube, I'm awe-struck how immensely likeable Nelson Piquet was. Such a shame he sank to low levels with his feud with Mansell and forever tarnished his image.

[SGWilko]

Oooooh! Never knew about that! That sort of thing Nigel Roebuck doesn't write often about is it?!

Mansell is my all-time hero and lives up to that status because he has time for the fans. He would be quite happy signing autographs all day than do a corporate event, that's for sure!

Watching the early 1980s season reviews on youtube, I'm awe-struck how immensely likeable Nelson Piquet was. Such a shame he sank to low levels with his feud with Mansell and forever tarnished his image.

Part of the 'intrigue' surrounding our Nige, is that, for someone who comes across (because of the Brummie accent) as boring, can be so exciting in the car. Never a dull moment (when in the car!!!)

I remember him complaining at Ferrari that it wasn't fair that Alain Prost spoke Italian.

From that day on I decided he was dumb.

[SGWilko]

I remember him complaining at Ferrari that it wasn't fair that Alain Prost spoke Italian.

From that day on I decided he was dumb.

Classic Mansell foot in mouth. Brain engagement before speach not a speciality :laugh:

[wedge]

I remember him complaining at Ferrari that it wasn't fair that Alain Prost spoke Italian.

From that day on I decided he was dumb.

Yes it's true Mansell had questionable man-management skills, used the word 'understeer' as if it was a derogatory slur and was somewhat psychologically flawed against his peers but his priority was to excite the fans - more often than not he would make an effort to sign autographs compared to some drivers - that sort of thing can make you enjoy a race meeting 10 times over.

There are other race drivers out there with a Jekyll & Hyde personalities - can create excitement on the race track and yet can create hatred once they take off their helmets and/or behind closed doors - JPM being a good recent example in F1, Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch and Tony Stewart being good examples in NASCAR right now.

[Azumanga Davo]

Pressures ofgetting to and being at the top, I suppose...

Jean-Marie Balestre = DING! DING! DING! Top prize! :D

[Osella]

Now on that I do agree.

I don't think Roebuck can use a keyboard without typing the word "Gilles".

:up: :laugh: Too true. Why he is regarded as one of the best F1 journalists is waaay beyond me. He just writes about Gilles...and finds seemingly any excuse to bring him into a story. "So, now traction control has been banned it reminds me of a time in 1978 when...."

When speaking of characters, I have to say Michael Schumacher, especially when you see some of his more private interviews, and his earlier days when he would be a bit more frank in interviews around the track.

I agree totally about Piquet being a great character, he was my first favourite driver, and I never cared much for Mansell anyhow, but you couldn't argue with a lot of his driving!

However, one guy who is such a character yet rarely gets mentioned as a great of the sport or a notable character is one Niki Lauda.
A great bloke, frank and also intelligent, achieved a lot but wasn't afraid to take on the establishment and would absolutely not be interrupted if trying to make a point!

As for others, I can think of a couple who sadly never really got that far in F1, one being Alex Zanardi, where the US got to see most of his great driving and his character, but he was a great character in the F1 paddock, and it's great to see him about in WTCC nowadays :up:

And of course from a similar period of time Gerhard Berger.

[Azumanga Davo]

:up: :laugh: Too true. Why he is regarded as one of the best F1 journalists is waaay beyond me. He just writes about Gilles...and finds seemingly any excuse to bring him into a story. "So, now traction control has been banned it reminds me of a time in 1978 when...."

When speaking of characters, I have to say Michael Schumacher, especially when you see some of his more private interviews, and his earlier days when he would be a bit more frank in interviews around the track.

I agree totally about Piquet being a great character, he was my first favourite driver, and I never cared much for Mansell anyhow, but you couldn't argue with a lot of his driving!

However, one guy who is such a character yet rarely gets mentioned as a great of the sport or a notable character is one Niki Lauda.
A great bloke, frank and also intelligent, achieved a lot but wasn't afraid to take on the establishment and would absolutely not be interrupted if trying to make a point!

As for others, I can think of a couple who sadly never really got that far in F1, one being Alex Zanardi, where the US got to see most of his great driving and his character, but he was a great character in the F1 paddock, and it's great to see him about in WTCC nowadays :up:

And of course from a similar period of time Gerhard Berger.

But the only reason he alway's writes about is because he had many stories to remember about Gilles? Making him, oh my god, a character of the sport? :D

[Tazio]

I want to preface what I'm about to write by saying in my 54 years on this planet I never followed motor-sports closely until the speedchannel came along. I remember seeing Jackie Stewart race, and being impressed. We didn't get allot of F1 in the states, and I was into more conventional American sports.
I have a vague recollection of the rage that was IL Lion! The only American motor-sport I watched at all was the Indy 500. OK! One year (I could look it up but I just want to retell it the way I remember it). It was in the 80's or maybe early 90's I was at a friends (who was a bit of a motor-head), with another good friend drinking beer, smoking, and joking our way through the Indy 500
I don't recall the specifics of the race, but the winner was Emerson Fittipaldi
Emo is in the winner's circle with a trophy and is handed the traditional bottle of milk that the winner traditionally takes a slug off of. Emo say "No I don't drink! Not good for you!” My buddy says in a mellow yet assertive way "drink the leche Emo" and we are all talking to the TV and encouraging him to drink the milk! But he refuses the milk saying "juice, orange juice is good! No milk!
Were yelling at the TV "Come on Dude drink the leche "The presenters are beside themselves not knowing exactly what to do They went to commercial, and evidently got Emo to agree to a photo with his lips on the bottle of milk. It wasn't on the broadcast. But as I recall an article in the sports page explained what a health nut he was, and owned Orange Groves in Brazil. Some one else in this forum knows these details much better than I have explained them. But I always admired Emo after that, even though it was closer to the twilight of his career. Evidently the American Dairy Association
didn't find it at all amusing. Then I realized the Influence of Corporate Sponsorship in Auto racing for the first time! Sorry to bore you with all that. At the Time it seemed priceless!

[BDunnell]

:up: :laugh: Too true. Why he is regarded as one of the best F1 journalists is waaay beyond me. He just writes about Gilles...and finds seemingly any excuse to bring him into a story. "So, now traction control has been banned it reminds me of a time in 1978 when...."

You can add to that his repetition of stories about Keke Rosberg, his endless parroting of his unthinkingly right-wing political position (which normally prefaces a story about something in 1978 ;) ) and his constant references to Bernie Ecclestone being 'at heart, a racer'. Watch out for how often the last one comes up in particular. I bet that he uses it if he comes to write about his ultimatum to the Australian GP organisers.

[AndyRAC]

You can add to that his repetition of stories about Keke Rosberg, his endless parroting of his unthinkingly right-wing political position (which normally prefaces a story about something in 1978 ;) ) and his constant references to Bernie Ecclestone being 'at heart, a racer'. Watch out for how often the last one comes up in particular. I bet that he uses it if he comes to write about his ultimatum to the Australian GP organisers.

Yeah, that always makes me chuckle, I would say, 'at heart, used car salesman'
If he was a racer, he'd make decisions with the best interests of the sport, not $$$$££££

[Osella]

You can add to that his repetition of stories about Keke Rosberg, his endless parroting of his unthinkingly right-wing political position (which normally prefaces a story about something in 1978 ;) ) and his constant references to Bernie Ecclestone being 'at heart, a racer'. Watch out for how often the last one comes up in particular. I bet that he uses it if he comes to write about his ultimatum to the Australian GP organisers.

:laugh: I think that has to do with the fact that Keke is/was a smoker ;)

Funny how somehow Roebuck is a great writer and journalist, yet Jeremy Clarkson is an opinionated bigot... ;)

[BDunnell]

:laugh: I think that has to do with the fact that Keke is/was a smoker ;)

Funny how somehow Roebuck is a great writer and journalist, yet Jeremy Clarkson is an opinionated bigot... ;)

Yes, I see your point. At least Roebuck doesn't always say the first thing that comes into his mind, though, and doesn't appear to be almost schizophrenic at times.

[Garry Walker]

At least Roebuck doesn't always say the first thing that comes into his mind,
What is wrong with saying what comes to your mind? Because it might cause "offence" to some weak-hearted idiots?

[AAReagles]

... The only American motor-sport I watched at all was the Indy 500... It was in the 80's or maybe early 90's ... I don't recall the specifics of the race, but the winner was Emerson Fittipaldi
Emo is in the winner's circle with a trophy and is handed the traditional bottle of milk that the winner traditionally takes a slug off of. Emo say "No I don't drink! Not good for you!”... Evidently the American Dairy Association
didn't find it at all amusing. Then I realized the Influence of Corporate Sponsorship in Auto racing for the first time!

It was the first of his two wins at the brickyard, 1989. And yes, it seemed rather silly that there would be some disgrunteled rumblings about refusing the milk, when after all he and Al Unser Jr. put on one of the greatest dogfighting races during the last few laps.

In regards to those dissatisfied milk execs, perhaps they forgot something; milk didn't make the '500', the '500' made milk.

[futuretiger9]

You can add to that his repetition of stories about Keke Rosberg, his endless parroting of his unthinkingly right-wing political position (which normally prefaces a story about something in 1978 ;) ) and his constant references to Bernie Ecclestone being 'at heart, a racer'. Watch out for how often the last one comes up in particular. I bet that he uses it if he comes to write about his ultimatum to the Australian GP organisers.

This may be grossly unfair, but I fear that Roebuck ran out of original things to say circa 1992. The constant references to Gilles, Mario, Keke et al have become tiresome.

[garyshell]

As for others, I can think of a couple who sadly never really got that far in F1, one being Alex Zanardi, where the US got to see most of his great driving and his character, but he was a great character in the F1 paddock, and it's great to see him about in WTCC nowadays

I hate to hijack a thread like, this but I have a huge personal favor to ask. I am seeking some info about Alex for the vicitim of a horrific explosion that cost him a leg. Please if you would, take a look at this thread that was moved to the chit chat forum: http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=126569

Gary

[BDunnell]

This may be grossly unfair, but I fear that Roebuck ran out of original things to say circa 1992. The constant references to Gilles, Mario, Keke et al have become tiresome.

I would generally agree, though the story he recounts in the latest MotorSport, told to him by Daniele Audetto, about James Hunt and Ferrari is genuinely fascinating.

[markabilly]

Mario Andrettie, when he was not being "corporate" is and was a great guy to be around. Quick wit, dry humor, and not very egotiscal.

Put the cororate camera on him, weeelll, only when he forgets its there

But there was something of the gentlemen in all of the drivers of the 1950s and 1960's that slowly faded out in the 1970's..



Graham hill is the only one I thought could be a bit of a jerk and smart a$$ in public, but even that seemed minor.

AS to Stirling Moss, I happen to meet him in San Antonio Texas at the world fair in the 1960's. Yes that is right, the world fair. He started asking for some directions and I looked at him very surprized and thought is that Stirling Moss, and he raised his eyebrows, and said "I am not Stirling Moss" as to though to read my mind, but with a sly grin. I responded that I thought he was Mick Jagger, and he said i am surprized you could recognize me without the wig. About then this stunning girl walks up, and he just starts talikng to her. A few minutes later he is off in some utility cart with her....

Of all the drivers I have met ever so briefly, he had the most chrisma. It was like instanteous and very likeable.

[futuretiger9]

I would generally agree, though the story he recounts in the latest MotorSport, told to him by Daniele Audetto, about James Hunt and Ferrari is genuinely fascinating.

Indeed, Nigel Roebuck seems to have enjoyed a new lease of life since he started writing more regularly for MotorSport in recent months. The latest issue features a fascinating and poignant piece about Monza 1978.

[blito]

was Gilles in it? :D

[futuretiger9]

was Gilles in it? :D

Yes, he got the odd mention in the article!