Do modern F1 cars create slipstream?

[ShiftingGears]

And, if they went on a 100% full throttle oval, do you think they would they be able to pass?

[Garry Walker]

And, if they went on a 100% full throttle oval, do you think they would they be able to pass?

They create slipstream yes. Have you seen any races?

Pass who?

F1 cars, to be more exact, their engines wouldnt last very long on Full throttle at an oval.

[ShiftingGears]

Completely forgot about Canada. I was thinking Malaysia, where I didn't see any slipstreaming on the front straight and the backstraight. More specifically I want to know how close the following cars have to be to the car in front to enter the slipstream. And yes I was using the oval as an example, I know that F1 engines aren't built for them.

[Gannex]

Yes, F1 cars do indeed create a very significant slipstream. But the slipstream is made up of very turbulent air, due to the airflow being funnelled to the rear wing and diffuser, where it is kicked upwards to create rear downforce. As the upward-moving air meets the air flowing longtitudinally, roughly parallel to the ground, that boundary generates a huge amount of turbulence.

This rear downforce generation, so efficiently done in an F1 car, means that the air which has passed over the car's body is moving forwards, relative to the ground, at a very high rate. For a following car, therefore, the drag it encounters is significantly reduced, so the "slipstream effect" is very great. But the turbulent nature of the slipstream makes it hard for the following car to make use of the slipstream. The air reaches the following car's front wing in complete disarray, "unconditioned", as aerodynamicists refer to it, not in a steady flow, so the front wing of the following car becomes very ineffective if it is in slipstream air.

To summarise, an F1 car following another, will experience a large reduction in drag and a large reduction in downforce. Thus, it is possible to slipstream to great effect on straights or on corners which are so sweeping as to require little downforce, but it is impossible to effectively slipstream on sharper corners because the reduction in drag is, in such corners, overwhelmed by the reduction in downforce.

[Valve Bounce]

...............which also causes increased front tyre wear when the downforce of the front wing is reduced.

[call_me_andrew]

And, if they went on a 100% full throttle oval, do you think they would they be able to pass?

Yes, and there would be plenty of passing. It would probably look something like this: http://www.atlasf1.com/2001/spn/preview/jones5.jpg

[Valve Bounce]

Yes, and there would be plenty of passing. It would probably look something like this: http://www.atlasf1.com/2001/spn/preview/jones5.jpg


Nice colours. But where are the wings? :confused:

[Gannex]

A NASCAR is to an F1 car as a slingshot is to a laser-guided missile.

[Valve Bounce]

You think a NASCAR is a laser-guided missile? Well, that explains all those prangs. :D

[blakebeatty]

That's correct, a slingshot requires incredible skill and accuracy to kill a target, where as a laser guided missle is entirely controlled by software and computers.

[Valve Bounce]

That's correct, a slingshot requires incredible skill and accuracy to kill a target, where as a laser guided missle is entirely controlled by software and computers.


I see you've read about David and Goliath too. :eek: I saw many statues of David including the one at hte Louvre and he didn't look like he killed anyone. Lucky Goliath didn't catch him by his you-know-whatsits. :p :

[tinchote]

That's correct, a slingshot requires incredible skill and accuracy to kill a target, where as a laser guided missle is entirely controlled by software and computers.


Oh yeah, it's so easy to drive an F1 cars. The drivers get paid ridiculous amounts of money only because of their good looks :rolleyes:

[truefan72]

com'n now! why does it always have to end up this way.
Two different series, two different temperaments and completely different cars

Drivers skills are of two different set,
both go fast and both have thier charms

If it were easy then JPM would be dominating the series right?

It's like comparing long distance runners to 400 meter runners

I guess NHRA would be 100m sprinters and rally steeplechase

...but I digress :)

[call_me_andrew]

I wasn't trying to emphasize NASCAR. I was trying to emphasize that all the cars would stay in a large pack.

[aryan]

I wasn't trying to emphasize NASCAR. I was trying to emphasize that all the cars would stay in a large pack.

Yes...if they are stock cars.

Let NASCAR teams each build their own car from scratch and we will see if they all stay in one large pack, even in ovals.

[kalasend]

...... The drivers get paid ridiculous amounts of money only because of their good looks :rolleyes:

On that note, I still hold the opinion that Sebastian Vettel does not have any. :D

[hugh_lee]

On that note, I still hold the opinion that Sebastian Vettel does not have any. :D

he probably got a lot of sponsors.

[wedge]

And, if they went on a 100% full throttle oval, do you think they would they be able to pass?



They create slipstream yes. Have you seen any races?

Pass who?

F1 cars, to be more exact, their engines wouldnt last very long on Full throttle at an oval.

The engines could go the distance with current engine mapping technology. Could F1 cars race on an oval? probably not very well, they're far too aero efficient. Just look how dull Monza is - taking away the chicanes wouldn't make much of a difference. Similarly the old Hockenheim as well, usually processional races because the cars were easily spread apart.

Look at IRL cars, they're shaped like a brick compared to F1 cars.

Sadly we'll never get the glorious Monza duels in F1 again.

If you love watching slipstreaming, drafting then NASCAR and Indycars is where its at, especially the last 10 laps at Daytona and Talladega.

[Dave B]

If you love watching slipstreaming, drafting then NASCAR and Indycars is where its at, especially the last 10 laps at Daytona and Talladega.
Although that's as much to do with the over use of full-course yellows than the cars' aero.

[call_me_andrew]

Yes...if they are stock cars.

Let NASCAR teams each build their own car from scratch and we will see if they all stay in one large pack, even in ovals.


Although that's as much to do with the over use of full-course yellows than the cars' aero.


No, and no.

NASCAR teams do build their cars from scratch, they just have a stricter rule book.

No Dave, this isn't about the yellows. Here's the last two laps of a race that went caution free. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rx24HI5ys&mode=related&search=

Since the cars need no extra downforce to corner at full throttle, the slowest car in the draft is always faster than the fastest car running alone.

[Gannex]

No, and no.

NASCAR teams do build their cars from scratch, they just have a stricter rule book.

No Dave, this isn't about the yellows. Here's the last two laps of a race that went caution free. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2rx24HI5ys&mode=related&search=

Since the cars need no extra downforce to corner at full throttle, the slowest car in the draft is always faster than the fastest car running alone.
I don't doubt you, Andrew, and that's why NASCAR is a totally different discipline from F1. I prefer F1. By miles.

[call_me_andrew]

I don't doubt you, Andrew, and that's why NASCAR is a totally different discipline from F1. I prefer F1. By miles.

I still think you're missing an important part of my point. While I described the basic principals of pack racing, that doesn't mean it appears at every NASCAR track. I just happened to be using NASCAR in an example. I could just as easily used any IndyCar or Champ Car race on a ~1.5 mile track, but I decided to use NASCAR because it was easy to find a picture that emphasized the size of the pack.

[aryan]

No, and no.
Here's the last two laps of a race that went caution free.


Oh... so you can have two laps of yellow-flag-free race in NASCAR?

Nice!

[call_me_andrew]

Oh... so you can have two laps of yellow-flag-free race in NASCAR?

Nice!

No, I meant the whole damn race didn't have a single yellow.