Where would you move the USGP?

[blakebeatty]

Bernie figures that the USGP is irrelevant. He says that he'd rather go to India, but that the USGP will likely stay, but perhaps change venues. Where would you hold the race???

I like the idea of Las Vegas Motor Speedway. It has an FIA approved road course, and the city to some degree embodies the spirit of North America. People bitch about the Roval, but the fact that you can see the whole track cannot be bad to attract spectators. And in Las Vegas, there are a lot of asses to fill the seats...

[Cozzie]

Give it some American flavour! Daytona!

[wmcot]

Salt Lake City at the new Miller Motorsports park. It's FIA approved, 4.5 miles long with 25 turns and a long straight. F1 style pit facilities. Right now it's used by ALMS, Grabd-Am, NASCAR West, and other SCCA events as well as numerous motorcycle races and all the support series (Formula BMW, Star Mazda, Speed GT and Touring, Porsche GT3, etc.)

It's pretty much centrally located in the states. It would be a challenge for the cars at 4000' altitude!

Only the money would be a sicking point.

(Plus I'd like to have an F1 race 30 minutes away from home :) )

[ShiftingGears]

Please not another roval...50% Oval, 50% infield road course, 100% crap.


Salt Lake City at the new Miller Motorsports park. It's FIA approved, 4.5 miles long with 25 turns and a long straight. F1 style pit facilities. Right now it's used by ALMS, Grabd-Am, NASCAR West, and other SCCA events as well as numerous motorcycle races and all the support series (Formula BMW, Star Mazda, Speed GT and Touring, Porsche GT3, etc.)

It's pretty much centrally located in the states. It would be a challenge for the cars at 4000' altitude!

Only the money would be a sicking point.

(Plus I'd like to have an F1 race 30 minutes away from home :) )

Isn't there a limit to how long the circuits can be? If not, I guess its a possibility. Theres certainly enough runoff there.


I couldn't find a list of F1 approved circuits in the United States, but I'd assume Watkins Glen and Long Beach are on that list. Given Bernies fascination of street circuits, I'd think Long Beach is a huge possibility.

[wmcot]

Please not another roval...50% Oval, 50% infield road course, 100% crap.



Isn't there a limit to how long the circuits can be? If not, I guess its a possibility. Theres certainly enough runoff there.


I couldn't find a list of F1 approved circuits in the United States, but I'd assume Watkins Glen and Long Beach are on that list. Given Bernies fascination of street circuits, I'd think Long Beach is a huge possibility.

The track at Salt Lake can be configured in 4 different ways. The full 24 turn course is 4.5 miles long, the outer course (eliminating most of the infield turns) is 3.06 miles long and the track can be split in half to make an east and west course, each is about 2.2 miles long.

You can get all the details at http://www.millermotorsportspark.com

It really is quite an impressive track! They would have to add some more grandstands to host F1 though.

[Ranger]

Bernie would probably like one in New York City, I'd imagine.

[wmcot]

Bernie will move it wherever the money is! I'd rather see it at a proper racetrack!

[Mifune]

road america or long beach

[Hazell B]

I love it the way it is.

Yes, I know it's probably a minority choice, but it is my favourite race pretty much. Few other Brits that I know like it and would rather see a road race in the US, perhaps Las Vegas.

[ArrowsFA1]

It would be good to see F1 back at Long Beach after all these years, and it would be superb if Road America was considered, but that's not going to happen.

What we don't want to see again is a temporary 'point & squirt' street circuit like Detroit or Dallas, or a car park event like Las Vegas, that we saw in the 1980's. Those did nothing to generate interest in F1 in the States, and even damaged prospects of the sport 'making it' there.

[Garry Walker]

Road America or Watkins glen. "wakes up". Well, that isnt going to happen :(

[CarlMetro]

Laguna Seca would be my choice, either that or a street circuit through downtown San Francisco which must include the 7 hills, using the Coit Tower as a hairpin and a trip down Lombard Street. That would sort the men from the boys ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Laguna Seca would be my choice...
Great track, but I dread to think what all of the F1 'requirements' would do to the character of the place :( but I'm liking the sound of San Francisco :p

[Dave B]

I'd love to see F1 cars through the Corkscrew! I doubt that would ever happen though. I have a feeling that if it relocates it would be to somewhere commercial like Disneyworld rather than a racetrack with any real heritage.

[AndyRAC]

Alonso was right when he said it was business and not a sport. If it was a sport F1 would go to the best track, not the one that pays Bernie the most. Personally I like Road America, yes it need safety work for FIA requirements, also MillerMotorsports Park, 4.5 miles long, might only be 45 laps, remember what happened to Hockenheim, that was a 45 lap race, so the track was de-capitated, now it's 60 odd laps. When will F1 wake up and think of the sport before money???

[Nicos]

BRING BACK LONG BEACH :P

Fun circuit :P

[shazbot]

It would never happen in a million years but imagine a race at VIR or Road Atlanta!

[Big Ben]

There seems to be so much pride in the fact that in US f1 doesn't have too much success... so why keep going there if they don't want it?

There are plenty of other countries that want to host a GP....

It's ridiculous... every year is the same... both sides underline the lack of interest for this event but they go on....

I for one would be glad if they remove indianapolis from the calendar... It's a boring, ugly track...

I would move the USGP to Suzuka...

[keysersoze]

It would never happen in a million years but imagine a race at VIR or Road Atlanta!

RA gets my vote--just a 45-minute drive. :D

Seriously, it a pretty cool area. There is a very nice hotel / spa / winery nearby callled Chateau Elan, which also features an equestrian center, tennis, and golf.

It would, however, need major upgrades and renovations to accomodate the F1 circus.

[N. Jones]

IF Bernie is unhappy then he should not make a deal with anyone in the USA.

Why try to build up a fanbase when he keeps deriding the coverage F1 gets in the US?
Just leave already.... :hmh:

[trumperZ06]

:D Hhmmm... Road Atlanta would be a challenging track, and is located ~ 45 minutes from Buckhead ie. downtown. They would need to put in movable stands and portable garages... but it would be... "DO-ABLE" .

;) Most likely.... Los Wages, international draw, fine hospitality... and attractions. Certainly able to meet Bernie's $$$ demands $$$!!! Only problem is... Las Vegas doesn't need Bernie !!!

[suhail]

I think if Bernie really wants it his way he'll move it out of the US altogether....Who knows where to....There's already so much talk of new Gp venues on the rise....Singapore was announced earlier in the year and India was announced for the 2009 season today....i think we're soon gonna see 25 races in a season....lol...

[Easy Drifter]

Road America when corn is in season. Best race track food and an awsome circuit. But it will never happen.
Way too expensive to bring it up to Bernie's and F1 demands.

[andreag]

To do it at Bernie's style, take it to Hawaii.

It's exotic, warm and have enough accomodation facilities.

And the timetible will drive crazy most of us (Monday morning GP for aussies, Sunday evening GP for americans, and Sunday late-late night GP for europeans).

[rohanweb]

well Daytona is the place, but a street race in Newyork city would be cool ;)

[andreag]

a street race in Newyork city would be cool ;)
It would be cooler a street race in San Francisco.

[Zsolt]

Another vote for RA, only about an hour from my home.

/I know it'll never happen though.

[rlenis]

New York City , Downtown Manhattan to be more precise.

[call_me_andrew]

If NASCAR can't have a race in New York City, no way is a series that no one in NYC has heard of is getting one.

I could live with seeing it moved to Watkins Glen or Daytona (motorcycle course). I'm not sure exactly how happy ISC would be about it.

While this isn't the first time Bernie has said he doesn't need a race in the U.S., he's also been quoted saying that he'd have 10 races here if he could.

I think Indy is fine as is, but I wouldn't mind making a change to it.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/itry2.jpg

[Allyc85]

^good mod to the track, misses out those rubbish hairpins!

[CCFanatic]

New York Central Park circuit

1.77 miles

[CCFanatic]

This could be a national security isssue, but a track around Washington DC including a stop aroudn the Jefferson Memorial

[CCFanatic]

Both tracks are the red outlines.

[CCFanatic]

It would be cooler a street race in San Francisco.


Try to talk to the enviromentalists in San Fran. They would kill that even before you get to the city planning commision.

[N. Jones]

If NASCAR can't have a race in New York City, no way is a series that no one in NYC has heard of is getting one.

I could live with seeing it moved to Watkins Glen or Daytona (motorcycle course). I'm not sure exactly how happy ISC would be about it.

While this isn't the first time Bernie has said he doesn't need a race in the U.S., he's also been quoted saying that he'd have 10 races here if he could.

I think Indy is fine as is, but I wouldn't mind making a change to it.


I think that is a great idea - your mod would give one and maybe two overtaking spots. One would be the left-right combo at turn 10/11 and the would possible be the little chicane right before the cars move back onto the Indy oval...

[rlenis]

If NASCAR can't have a race in New York City, no way is a series that no one in NYC has heard of is getting one.



Do you know how many people live in Walkins Glen on Daytona compared to New York City? NYC is along with Toronto the two most multicultural cities in the WORLD. How can you bluntly say that in NYC no has has heard of Formula one.?
If then want attendance, they will get in in NYC without a doubt.

[Rex Monaco]

South Florida or Southern California. Pretty people, great weather and these are the top markets for Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW.

[Stuartf12007]

I agree with Hazell, Have a Las Vegas road race, right through the famous strip.

and its got to be a night race aswell, so all the cars will have to have headlights fitted.

[call_me_andrew]

Bernie doesn't want a night race in North America. It'll be late night in Europe.

And like Long Beach, you'll have to pry it from Champ Car's cold, (almost) dead hands.

[Kevincal]

Being that the US is so big, I say why only have 1 USGP? Keep Indy...and add a "spruced-up-for-F1" Laguna Seca or Infineon Raceway. :D

[xtlm]

Whats wrong with indy?
I thought attendance there was high.

Do the drivers not like it?


Oh and i would say glenn, road america, laguna or infineon..(well not the last one) or imagine them running the Cleveland air port...

[ShiftingGears]

Whats wrong with indy?
I thought attendance there was high.

Do the drivers not like it?


Oh and i would say glenn, road america, laguna or infineon..(well not the last one) or imagine them running the Cleveland air port...

Michael Schumacher called it a "mickey Mouse circuit" and its only remembered for Ralfs big accident in 2004, 6 cars starting the race in 2005, and a multicar pileup in 2006. So it hasn't got much going for it.

[nigelred5]

There seems to be so much pride in the fact that in US f1 doesn't have too much success... so why keep going there if they don't want it?

There are plenty of other countries that want to host a GP....

It's ridiculous... every year is the same... both sides underline the lack of interest for this event but they go on....

I for one would be glad if they remove indianapolis from the calendar... It's a boring, ugly track...

I would move the USGP to Suzuka...

Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Mercedes and Toyota. 4 reasons why F1 races in the US. The US is still the world's largest automotive market and I believe the US remains each of the 4 companies largest single market. As long as they want it, I firmly believe we'll retain a race in the US.

[xtlm]

Michael Schumacher called it a "mickey Mouse circuit" and its only remembered for Ralfs big accident in 2004, 6 cars starting the race in 2005, and a multicar pileup in 2006. So it hasn't got much going for it.

- What exactly does that mean? "Mickey Mouse circuit"....have them run the oval backwards then
- Are accidents that looked down upon in f1, where if they happen, the tracks get dumped?
- That was not the tracks fault, but rather management (Even though I understand the stigma here, it was 2 years ago...time to forget and move on?)

and aren't the attendance numbers good? or have they sig. dropped since 05'

[nigelred5]

New York Central Park circuit

1.77 miles


If I recall, F1 has a minimum track length of over two miles.

[nigelred5]

I like your track mod. I've done similar configurations, as well as entering the track utilizing more of oval turn 3 but going back onto Hulman blvd rather than using the back strait. All they really need to do is eliminate the hairpin at turn 9. From turn 8, only go about half the way towards the existing turn 9. Instead of a hairpin, make 9 a simple right hander that would create a strait into the last half of the existing turn ten. Make 8-9-10 a quick left- right- left complex, rather than a slow back to back U- turn. It might eliminate a couple hundred feet of track at most and eliminate the most criticised part of the track. Configure it just so and it might make for a nice place for a few double pass moves after turn 8.

All they need to do for turn 13 is extend the SAFER barrier about 20 yards into the straight for the GP layout.

[call_me_andrew]

All they really need to do is eliminate the hairpin at turn 9. From turn 8, only go about half the way towards the existing turn 9. Instead of a hairpin, make 9 a simple right hander that would create a strait into the last half of the existing turn ten. Make 8-9-10 a quick left- right- left complex, rather than a slow back to back U- turn. It might eliminate a couple hundred feet of track at most and eliminate the most criticised part of the track. Configure it just so and it might make for a nice place for a few double pass moves after turn 8.

I think they might do that anyway. I think that's part of the MotoGP reconfiguration. How they expect bypass oval turn one without destroying the F1 pit lane is anyone's guess.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/badindy.jpg

Indy usually has good attendence. I think it has more seating than any other track in F1.

[ShiftingGears]

- What exactly does that mean? "Mickey Mouse circuit"....have them run the oval backwards then
- Are accidents that looked down upon in f1, where if they happen, the tracks get dumped?
- That was not the tracks fault, but rather management (Even though I understand the stigma here, it was 2 years ago...time to forget and move on?)

and aren't the attendance numbers good? or have they sig. dropped since 05'

Mickey Mouse circuit means its rather crap, from a challenge point of view - the only good corner is part of the oval. I hope people do move on from what happened in 2005. I don't think anyone really likes the circuit. And no, circuits dont get dumped if there is heavy accidents. Though if theres enoguh protest, theyre modified. My point is that Indy hasnt been remembered for anything except disaster.

[harvick#1]

Miller Motorsports Park :s mokin:

best track to hold an F1 race

[nigelred5]

I think they might do that anyway. I think that's part of the MotoGP reconfiguration. How they expect bypass oval turn one without destroying the F1 pit lane is anyone's guess.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/badindy.jpg

Indy usually has good attendence. I think it has more seating than any other track in F1.

That's the problem when you can seat upwards of 250K in seats. Even 150K makes the place look empty.

The change to 8-9-10 was obviously needed after seeing HHF make the first lap in 2000. Such an easy change at that. The later mods have a lot of obstacles to over come in that area. The south tunnel and the museum are major obstacles that cannot be changed. They won't do anything to restrict access to the museum, and that tunnel is the main access to the track. I can't see them making any major modifications to the Oval turn one area.

[call_me_andrew]

Michael Schumacher called it a "mickey Mouse circuit" and its only remembered for Ralfs big accident in 2004, 6 cars starting the race in 2005, and a multicar pileup in 2006. So it hasn't got much going for it.

Well you're forgetting a few things. There's Mika Häkkinen's last F1 win in 2001, the Ferrari team orders incident of 2002, and the fact that Michael Schumacher has won 5 races at a track where no one has won more than 4 races.

[vegasmike433]

I cannot believe that there is even an argument here as to where the USGP should be run. The natural choice with no other option in contention would have to be Las Vegas. What we can offer here by way of amenities far surpasses anything available at any other destination on the planet.

Meanwhile, billions more dollars are currently being spent in mega construction projects which are part of what will be the most elaborate entertainment complex ever created in recorded history.

I know that Mr. Ecclestone made several attempts some years back in trying to convince the County and City leaders to put together a parcel of land and the funding for a track at the south end of Las Vegas Boulevard. For the Las Vegas Grand Prix to really shine in the way that it should, a new track along the lines of those constructed in Malaysia and Bahrain would be necessary.

The success of NASCAR weekends here which require far less capital investment from the promoters, reveals a reluctance or myopia on the part of the City and County leadership to comprehend why Mr. Ecclestone and his racing brand is so much more expensive to undertake. The rewards , however, are comensurate with the risk, determination and realization that all F1 fans from every corner of the universe would soon make the US GP LV an annual event that would never be missed.

The spending and asset demographic for this group would return the investment in infra structure ten fold and more in a short time frame. But since "race fans", (read American NASCAR enthusiasts) are satisfied with the racing at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway, and they show up each year in droves, the community fathers do not see their way clear to affording the initial outlay of considerable dollars to get the Formula One race off the ground.

Everytime I look at what we have here in Las Vegas, I lament that there is no one willing to undertake the project to establish this city of unbelievable, spectacular venues for entertainment and leisure, as the permanent home of the United States Grand Prix.

What we have here on just about any normal weekend blows Monaco away hands down. I know from whence I speak, having attended the Monaco event and having lived here for the better part of twelve years.

Michael P. Whelan

Las Vegas, Nevada

[Ranger]

Whats wrong with indy?

In the context of recent discussion about it, the only thing wrong with it is that Bernie currently has the ****s about it. Just him stirring the pot.

[ShiftingGears]

Well you're forgetting a few things. There's Mika Häkkinen's last F1 win in 2001, the Ferrari team orders incident of 2002, and the fact that Michael Schumacher has won 5 races at a track where no one has won more than 4 races.

Yes, I see your point, but if you were a casual fan (like the majority are), would you remember any of those points? My point is that F1 at Indy, unless something great happens or it stays there long enough so that people forget about 2005, won't be seen favourably by many fans at all.



But this is all about Bernie playing the bullying game, where he is threatening to leave IMS so as to get another contract and to get more $$$$$$.

[Valve Bounce]

I've been looking at this thread for the past week, and could not think of a decent place until just now. Africa doesn't have a Grand Prix at the moment, so why don't we move the USGP to The Congo?

[ShiftingGears]

I've been looking at this thread for the past week, and could not think of a decent place until just now. Africa doesn't have a Grand Prix at the moment, so why don't we move the USGP to The Congo?


It'll cost ya!

;)

[-Helix-]

Make the Indy 500 the USGP.

[call_me_andrew]

Yes, I see your point, but if you were a casual fan (like the majority are), would you remember any of those points? My point is that F1 at Indy, unless something great happens or it stays there long enough so that people forget about 2005, won't be seen favourably by many fans at all.

Well the team orders thing is always a hot button issue. Lest we forget the Ron Dennis event of this month. Mika Häkkinen is still a popular driver. And I wouldn't put it past a Schumacher lover to bring that up when he/she is quoting statistics.

[xtlm]

Make the Indy 500 the USGP.

this would be something......then people cant argue that the field is weak (even though in my opinion it isn't)

or run the thing backwards, on the same date as now.

[-Helix-]

this would be something......then people cant argue that the field is weak (even though in my opinion it isn't)

or run the thing backwards, on the same date as now.

Actually it'd probably be even weaker considering only a few teams ever have a chance of winning in F1. :p

Although F1 cars on an oval might be a different story. Probably more pack racing which means more cars having a chance to lead.

Also, since F1 engines would probably struggle on an oval, it would bring back the endurance factor that the 500 used to have. 500 miles today is nothing for Indycars.

[SteveMcQueen]

Laguna Seca, hands down.

But only if the track remains in the current condition, no changes.

[Valve Bounce]

this would be something......then people cant argue that the field is weak (even though in my opinion it isn't)

or run the thing backwards, on the same date as now.


Let me get this straight - you want to run the raace backwards?? Are you sure the wings and diffusers work running backwards? And are you sure the rear view mirrors will show sufficiently who is behind? I have my serious doubts.

[Dave B]

I cannot believe that there is even an argument here as to where the USGP should be run. The natural choice with no other option in contention would have to be Las Vegas.
Las Vegas is indeed a spectacular setting and there's no arguement that it is cash-rich.

However manufacturers are trying to open up new markets and increasingly that means doing business with cultures where being linked so intrinsicly with gambling could be seen as a disadvantage. Monaco has its Casino, sure, but the principality is a proper resort which would thrive equally well without it.

[ShiftingGears]

Las Vegas is indeed a spectacular setting and there's no arguement that it is cash-rich.

However manufacturers are trying to open up new markets and increasingly that means doing business with cultures where being linked so intrinsicly with gambling could be seen as a disadvantage. Monaco has its Casino, sure, but the principality is a proper resort which would thrive equally well without it.

I don't think Vegas would be seen as a disadvantage by any manufacturers. If the US public like the grand prix, and swallow up the sponsors products, I don't see why there would be any issue with it.

[Mysterious Rock]

In the light of the Possibility of Paris at Disneyland, why not hold it at disneyworld in florida, they already have experience of running races after cart at the disney speedway

[Rantanamo]

I just say forget about the USGP. I'd love to see a revolt by the teams. The teams are in it to win races, but there are corporate missions. If the US is indeed the biggest market for manus like Mercedes, Honda, BMW, Toyota, Ferrari, etc, I'm sure they'd be very happy to avoid their biggest chance to show off in front of their most buyers.

If Bernie would stop playing FIFA, he would help promote tracks like Miller or having Road America approved or stop the attacks on new proposals like Boundless from the oval track promoters.

[Valve Bounce]

I just had a tought - why are we trying to move the USGP?

[Dave B]

Because Indy is possibly the dullest, most uninspiring F1 circuit on the calendar.

[ShiftingGears]

Because Indy is possibly the dullest, most uninspiring F1 circuit on the calendar.

Shanghai? Bahrain? Fuji?

[Roamy]

The only logical place is "the Glen" Fix it up and bring the race. NY has the diversity of people to support the race. NO street circuits - I want a real race.
Laguna or Road America would be cool but they would never get the crowds or interest. F1 is way to stuck up for California - people expect to go to a race and for 50 bucks buy a pitpass and stroll around in the pits. With F1 you need a CIA clearance to get within 6 blocks of the Pits. So we need a great track and probably should build a complete new Glen.

[ozrevhead]

Leguna or Vegas

Would be nice to have one in either Johannasburg or Cairo

[dont_be_jack]

Watkins Glen is the place to hold it. Other than Road America, it is top on my list of road courses in the U.S. and it could very well, with some improvements, host a great F1 race that'll rival all others.

Indy would be better, but only if they worked a bit on it. It's completely flat minus the banking in the last turn. If they worked in some elevation changes, it might be better.

[call_me_andrew]

In the light of the Possibility of Paris at Disneyland, why not hold it at disneyworld in florida, they already have experience of running races after cart at the disney speedway

1. That was IRL, not CART.
2. Oval tracks have a way of opening a can of worms on F1 forums.
3. The track was poorly planned. It shared a parking lot with one of the theme parks, and created a traffic nightmare.


Because Indy is possibly the dullest, most uninspiring F1 circuit on the calendar.

Yeah, it really sucks when they build some long straight and put a 90 degree turn after it. It's like they want people to draft and pass or something.

*sarcasm*

[wedge]

Yeah, what a crap race track, too much drafting and passing today.

:rollseyes:

I always had faith in Indy. Too bad JPM wiped out half the field last year.

[dont_be_jack]

Yeah, what a crap race track, too much drafting and passing today.

:rollseyes:

I always had faith in Indy. Too bad JPM wiped out half the field last year.

And Michelin the year before!

[RushF1]

Being in CA, I would love for the USGP to be at Sears Point (I can never call it "Infineon") or Laguna Seca, but it ain't gonna happen.

Bernie has gone on record as saying that even with the changes made for the MotoGP races in the late 80's (the infield section), the lack of runoff and the short length (2.2 miles) take Laguna out of the running. Also, the same argument is often made against Sears Point.

Long Beach won't pay the $$$ for F1 when they have ChampCar. Road America is thought to be too far out in the boonies (so how come Magny-Cours has a GP?). I love Watkins Glen, Miller Motorsports Park, Road Atlanta and a few other places, but let's be honest: Bernie wants cash, straight up. As long as someone comes along who can write a huge check, a lot of things can be "overlooked." Even when F1 comes here, it barely gets a blip on the radar screen, and that is very unfortunate, because there are a hell of a lot of very passionate F1 fans in this country.

[e2mtt]

Watkins Glen rules. Coolest track in the US.

I agree with runing a race in Vegas, there's just nowhere to put it right now.

call_me_andrew, nice track change idea. I had a similar idea long ago... those double hairpins stink.

[blakebeatty]

I just had a tought - why are we trying to move the USGP?

because Bernie doesn't want to negotiate with Tony George, hence the fact that he said we could do without a USGP if we had to

[hugh_lee]

because Bernie doesn't want to negotiate with Tony George, hence the fact that he said we could do without a USGP if we had to

he starting to sound more and more like saddam. he wanted to get rid of the british grand prix then, and the us grand prix now.

or maybe it's just male menopause..

[raikk]

Toronto.. build a new circuit somewhere near..

[dont_be_jack]

Toronto.. build a new circuit somewhere near..

And move the USGP outside of the country?

[raikk]

And move the USGP outside of the country?

ohh crap I kinda misread lol... I though it was where should it be moved rather then where in the US it should be moved my bad... Road America? Laguna Seca?

[BenRoethig]

Because Indy is possibly the dullest, most uninspiring F1 circuit on the calendar.

And that's saying something for F1. Where would I put the date? I'd me looking at a track near Moscow or St. Petersburg.

[Shifter]

How about Laguna Seca with changes. I hate LS because it is so overrated. It has a corkscrew. So what? It has no straightaways, and it's too tight. Mind you on my simulators I love taking laps of the old Nuburgring but I dislike Laguna from a drivers' perspective. I'd love to see it redone and the USGP held there during the Concours d'Elegance.

[MAX_THRUST]

It would be a toss up between Long Beach, Watkins Glen, and Indy. Either way India would be better, and probably more succesful than the US.

Long Beach, history there all ready, like Indy, but Bernies just trying to get a better deal out of TG. Or make TG think hes gonna loose the race. Top business man versus, TG......Bernie wins again.

[Mark]

Why does it have to be an established venue. Presumably you could build an indentikit tilkedrome anywhere.

[wedge]

With the current state of American motor racing, they wouldn't build a road course it would be an oval.

There's Miller Motorsports Park. It only opened last year and already it has rave reviews from the ALMS guys. Wide, a big long straightaway and lots fast flowing corners - Tilke had nothing to do with it.

[Speedsense]

I spoke with the owner of Miller racepark. Miller is rated FIA 2 and to hold a F1 race, they have to be FIA 1 rated. The difference between FIA 2 and FIA 1 seems to be the 20 mill dollars that you need to pay F1 to get the rating, otherwise Miller could hold the race.

[e2mtt]

The US Grand Prix needs to be a Marque event.

Right now Indy is a very working functional track. They stuffed a boring layout into an existing track in between as many seats as possible, and sell as many seats as possible (never all of them) to the locals.

The USGP needs re-inventing. The US needs to see F1 cars going up and down rolling green hills on a classic type road course, with a Concourse De Elegance atmosphere around it.

The event should have luxury towers, fields of exotic cars, and as much of an exotic aura as can be managed. The should make half the tickets very expensive with all the luxury amenities and great access, and the other half cheap with great views, and the total number sold low enough to ensure a multi-year waiting list on the cheap ones.

Put the TV rights out to bid, get all the NFL's HD cameras onsite to ensure it is the best & most completely televised GP of the year, promote it like crazy, and make it a red-letter day on every motor racing fan's TV schedule.

The high end sponsors that orbit F1 will appreciate this, and it should be possible to get some large luxury & high-tech companies to step up and sponsor & host the event. (Even though they won't get their name on the event quite the way the would with most other races.)

As far as where this race would actually be hosted, I don't know. Watkins Glen is a good track, but kinda out in the country. Laguna Seca isn't very green. Road America could work, but it is still pretty rural. A new track might be in order.

I have a great idea... some body needs to incorporate a road course racetrack into a golf course near a major southern/western city! Rolling green hills + the fastest cart path ever. Design the track to be fast and flowing, incorporating terrain as much as possible, and then wrap a golf course all through and around it. Yes there would be a lot more tarmac then usual for a golf course, but you could have great motorsports theme restaurants & themed golf carts. The valuable land would be making money as a golf course most of the year, and then could host an F1 & sports car race, as well as possible have a ~1 mile track section that could stay active as a club track all the time.

[Hoss Ghoul]

Laguna Seca, hands down. The track is unbelievable, and there'd be a decent crowd for F1 there(100K+). The pits are very open, so that could pose a problem...ridiculous.

If you haven't been to this track, please reserve comment, the corkscrew would blow your mind in person, and the rest of the track is very nice. The frontstetch is pretty decent too, it's not flat, but its plenty long. After the renovations for MotoGP I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be acceptable for F1 safety-wise.

Beyond that I would say Sears Point, Watkins Glenn, Road America, and the new track Miller in Utah. Realistically though Road America and Miller are too remote, IMO, to work, even though they have the lenght, etc, that F1 management would prefer.

My guess...It will stay at Indy for several more years, the manufacturers will demand it.

[Ranger]

The facilities at Laguna Seca would need upgrading. Last year's MotoGP race had to have support races postponed because of track degradation, which is something that won't impress the F1 people.

The problem with LS, however, is that the track is quite short, what's more, as nice as and natural as the track may be, the lack of a long straight could make it another Hungaroring, which has a reputation of not being good for F1 cars, barring the occurrence of rain.

[Cart750hp]

If F1 decided to replace Indy to Laguna Seca, no doubt, it'll get the upgrade needed. Look, this is F1's USGP here and check how many sponsors will flood the event let alone the promotions and the upgrade needed for the event. MotoGP been there 2 times already and it's been sold out. Just imagine F1 there. On top of that....it's California, baby.

[AndyRAC]

I know I'm being naive, but this practice of charging extortionate prices to simply hold a GP is really pi55ing me off. The FIA should award the races to the best circuits that promote the sport through good racing, overtaking, etc. Not who's got the most wedge, even if the track is a bore. Much as I admire what Bernie has done for the sport, he has far too much say in the running of it. If there was any justice or sporting intentions a 'proper' road course would get the US GP, i.e Watkins Glen, Road America or Miller Motorsports Park.

[FIA]

Laguna Seca or Daytona

[MAX_THRUST]

Thought about this a bit since yesterday, and I came to this conclusion.

Forget USA, and go to Mexico. Without doubt you would have a huge crowd...

[salmo]

I'm a little late joining the discussion since I just got back from Indy.

Regarding Schumi's "Mickey Mouse" comments about the circuit: If it were up to the drivers alone, we'd probably still have the USGP at Watkins Glen and the Candian Grand Prix at Mosport. Both are fantastic driver's circuits, but F1 simply outgrew them. Let's face it; F1 is no longer willing to accept a circuit out in the woods miles from nowhere, no matter how good a circuit it is. It needs to be near airports, hotels, shopping, it needs to have luxury boxes, good garages, etc. etc.

Regarding building a new circuit nearer a population center: Have you ever seen what happens when a new race circuit is proposed anywhere? Even out in the sticks, you're looking at years of red tape, meetings, and permits, and even then it's more likely to get turned down. I can't think of a built-up area anywhere in the U.S. that would welcome a new permanent race track.

So considering all that, while as a driver I'd prefer to see the USGP move back to Watkins Glen, as a realist I recognize that's never going to happen. Indianapolis has just about everything else that F1 is looking for, including large crowds, and for the spectator it's hard to beat. (From my seat I saw Turn 13, the entire front straight, Turns 1-7, and the beginning of the back straight.)

Get rid of the Turn 9-10 hairpins and it would be that much better for the drivers, too. So if I were Bernie I'd keep it right where it is. Then again, if I were Bernie, I'd do lots of things different than Bernie.

[Easy Drifter]

Actually the way the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) has expanded Mosport is not really in the sticks anymore. However, the track does not come close to what F1 demands in the way of run off areas, paddock and enclosed pits/garages. Also no grandstands. The cost to bring Mosport or the Glen up to current standards would be several million. Turn 3 at Mosport also runs close to a public road so doing anything about enough run off would be almost impossible.

[truefan72]

Now that I think of it, they should keep it in indy and make these modifications to the track

http://www.dsev.com/newindy.jpg

[Placid]

If anyone has checked out the http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com website,

MotoGP will have all categories in 2008. And there will be a new layout.

Hopefully this will persuade Bernie a return for F1.

[markabilly]

Seca but travel to and from takes hours ( I mean five in and four out....) but whocares ...I say until they get rid of the wings and electronic traction control etc, and sart passing...let it stay out of the USA

[punkologist]

I agree with Hazell, Have a Las Vegas road race, right through the famous strip.

and its got to be a night race aswell, so all the cars will have to have headlights fitted.

yep, just like in project gotham racing 3, I love that track!!

It would also give me a great excuse to get back to Vegas. I made my first trip to the states in Feb and loved Vegas.

Laguna Seca seems like a pretty good track though too, would love to see Lewis Hamilton try to emulate "the pass".

[punkologist]

Regarding building a new circuit nearer a population center: Have you ever seen what happens when a new race circuit is proposed anywhere? Even out in the sticks, you're looking at years of red tape, meetings, and permits, and even then it's more likely to get turned down. I can't think of a built-up area anywhere in the U.S. that would welcome a new permanent race track.



You just need a Jeff Kennet (former politician here in Melbourne) He just told the protesters where to go, negotiated to move the race from Adelaide and built the Melbourne F1 track anyway.

They still protest about it now. I think it's time for them to let go.

[SteveMcQueen]

Just saw the Champ Car race yesterday in Elkhart Lake and I must say, this would be a perfect track for the F1.

Fast corners, good rhythm, enough room for overtaking, hills to climb. I could imagine great F1 racing there.

[MAX_THRUST]

Road America. Elk Hart Lake. Or however you spell it. Three long straights, tight corners at the end with over taking. No pitt buildings which would be a no no for F1, because they can't work in tents. SHAME, great circuit!!!

A DRIVERS CIRCUIT!!!! not with silly pointless, oh no slow cown theres another Chicane!!!!

I 'll shut up now.

[BenRoethig]

It's also in the middle of nowhere.

[markabilly]

USGP is gone, and unlikely to be back.
If Indy's facities were not good enough and Indy could or would not come up with the money, then NO one else is going to do it.


With the turkey GP ("the worst deal") you should see the only and sole reason: Bernei ernie money.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120103

(Turkey is good to go for 15 years, its past sin of not paying the remainder of a fine of 2.5 million, and it is "lousy deal" but Bernie says "we need to be there, just like China"....but of course, seems bernie owns the circuit, so it must be for the good of the sport--all thos brits need to do is sell Siverstone to bernie and the yankess sell Indy to Bernie as well.........

meanwhile a new song for you US GP fans to sing along

"bye buy american pie, took my races to turkey and now the US is dry......and soon soon, it will be over for Silverstone too...." :confused:


Bernie's own words:
"F1 needs to be in this part of the world. Actually our contract here for F1 is one of the worst that we have and my board of directors have often wondered why we did this deal." [well, now they should know]

"But it is like going to China, everyone thought I was stark raving mad to take F1 to China but we needed to be there and that is also the case for Turkey."


http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...077876,00.html (http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3441_2077876,00.html)

and Bernie decided it was not in the best interests of the sport to be fining himself ...oops I mean the organizers of the event... :rolleyes:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...027015,00.html so there!!)

[ShiftingGears]

I'd love to see the cars at Road America. Not going to happen though.

[markabilly]

I'd love to see the cars at Road America. Not going to happen though.


All they need to do is sell it to Bernie, just like the Turkey transaction... :p imp:

first get a deal for fifteen years with a side agreement that Bernie later gets to buy the track, just as in Turkey, so the money from the event minus a small sanctioning fee, goes straight to Bernie :love: rather than those partners at his F1 organization (thos pesky banks etc) :bandit:

[call_me_andrew]

USGP is gone, and unlikely to be back.

The rumors I hear indicate a possible return in 2009.

[markabilly]

The rumors I hear indicate a possible return in 2009.


I think it is gone for good, because if Indy is not paying the 15 million plus fee and all the other expenses of promotion for next year, why would they ever do it again unless bernie cuts his fees considerably...and that ain't likely...

I can not see any other location or track stepping up for such an event unless Ernei because of some "special considerations", determines that it is for the good of the sport (a/k/a his personal pocketbook ala turkey)

Of course, may be it is just hard-core negoitations, seeing who will call the bluff...but it went away for a number of years and was barely noticed by its absence in the USA (and unlike Europe, there are the Indy, champ car and nascar series, and nascar just blows away F1 in terms of putting on a show in america...)

[coldawg]

[quote="markabilly"]
I can not see any other location or track stepping up for such an event unless Ernei because of some "special considerations", determines that it is for the good of the sport (a/k/a his personal pocketbook ala turkey)
QUOTE]

It's almost impossible to see it happening in this coutry in this decade, given current capital markets. Also, America has become so NIMBY with respect to race tracks, that it will be almost impossible to locate good facilites in population areas. Not In My Back Yard - for those that might need translation.

The areas of the world that Bernie's taking us to are "developing" without the regulation and enviroment regulations present in the US and Europe. When you can't cut trees to protect drivers, then perhpas it's time to race elsewhere?

[wmcot]

The areas of the world that Bernie's taking us to are "developing" without the regulation and enviroment regulations present in the US and Europe. When you can't cut trees to protect drivers, then perhpas it's time to race elsewhere?

But isn't F1 supposed to have a "green" image? Then why is Bernie going to countries that have no regulations to protect the environment (or ban tobacco advertising?)

I fear that countries such as India would be only too happy to cut down enough trees to protect the drivers as well as flatten a whole forest if necessary to build a track for Bernie's money!

[ShiftingGears]

All they need to do is sell it to Bernie, just like the Turkey transaction... :p imp:

first get a deal for fifteen years with a side agreement that Bernie later gets to buy the track, just as in Turkey, so the money from the event minus a small sanctioning fee, goes straight to Bernie :love: rather than those partners at his F1 organization (thos pesky banks etc) :bandit:

Yeah if its sold to Bernie I bet that Bernie and Tilke will neuter it. See Hockenheim and the Osterreichring!

[f1kid1987]

Laguna Seca would be my choice

same here i would love laguna seca to be a good vence or long beach

[Crypt]

Laguna Seca, hands down.

But only if the track remains in the current condition, no changes.

+65

I wanna see Ralfie toss the car off the Corkscrew.

[Lemmy-Boy]

It would be logical to have a race in large, fashionable, markets, like California, New York, or Florida. I would stay away from Farm-Boy states like Indianapolis, etc.

But would anyone have enough balls to pull it off? I think not.

If I was an aspiring race promoter in the USA, I would probably pee in my pants with the exorbitant fees offered by Bernie E.

I would look to promote a NASCAR NEXTEL CUP Race insead. You'll get a better ROI on your investment, plus the fans can really relate with most Nascar drivers. Plus, why would a typical American race fan cheer for a snobby European with names they can hardly pronounce or relate with? And I would probably make more money with a NASCAR race than a typical F1 race with little or no passing on the track.

[markabilly]

+65

I wanna see Ralfie toss the car off the Corkscrew.

Love the corkscrew but problems are access and exit--big time messes at motogp, lack of fancy facilitites, plus it is run by SCRAMP, who has to deal with very nasty (NIMBY-types) folks who have imposed severe noise restrictions and so forth, and SCRAMP is barely keeping those NIMBY in check so to continue to exist just for motogp.....

It does not have anything close to the mega bucks demanded by Bernie, from Indy..........but

[Placid]

A return to Detroit.

At Belle Isle.

http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/NAmerica/USA/MI/detroitbelleisle.html

[harvick#1]

Miller Motorsports Park would be the best track.

I wouldn't mind Watkins Glen, Road America, Sebring

[punkologist]

Miller Motorsports Park would be the best track.

I wouldn't mind Watkins Glen, Road America, Sebring

I love Sebring as a track (i play forza 2) but wouldn't it be a bit too bumpy for the precious F1 cars?

I watched the Nascars at Watkins Glen on ESPN the other day, that looked like a nice track.

[maxu05]

They should make it a street race like they did with Adelaide (now moved to Melbourne). I think it should go where the money is. An LA or Vegas street race would be cool, and pull in the big spenders.

[punkologist]

They should make it a street race like they did with Adelaide (now moved to Melbourne). I think it should go where the money is. An LA or Vegas street race would be cool, and pull in the big spenders.

Used to love the adelaide track, was a really great atmosphere there too. Obviously im happier with the race being in my home town though :)

I love street races in general.

[kalasend]

same here i would love laguna seca to be a good vence or long beach

That would be my choice too, as I can just drive to get there. But I heard Seca has sound level limit. I'm not sure if that only applies to club racing or everything. AFAIK, it's pretty lame since the club cars have to have mufflers to be allowed to run there. Perhaps I'm mistaken though...

[markabilly]

That would be my choice too, as I can just drive to get there. But I heard Seca has sound level limit. I'm not sure if that only applies to club racing or everything. AFAIK, it's pretty lame since the club cars have to have mufflers to be allowed to run there. Perhaps I'm mistaken though...

No you are not mistaking--the motogp boys had to go through all sorts of issues to get approval and avoid too much flak...anything else like racing school or whatever...guess what?????

At one point there was some sort of controversy over supporting clases at the old superbike races and sound....

[Drew]

I'm with Las Vegas up the strip, brilliant idea :up:

[wmcot]

Actually, I've just heard that they will still hold the USGP - trouble is that they will out-source it to India!!! :)

[ShiftingGears]

I think it should go where the money is.

Thats Bernies mentality, and its why you get crappy go kart circuits added to the calendar in favour of the traditional venues.


And about the US street circuit proposal...those who do not learn from the past are bound to repeat it.

[markabilly]

Thats Bernies mentality, and its why you get crappy go kart circuits added to the calendar in favour of the traditional venues.


And about the US street circuit proposal...those who do not learn from the past are bound to repeat it.
yEah he should have been truthful and said it WILL go where the money is...the only person in the whole wide world who would say "should" would be brenie enrie and he would say "it should go where it should go for the good of the sport" like Turkey....

[markabilly]

Actually, I've just heard that they will still hold the USGP - trouble is that they will out-source it to India!!! :)
I Know you are trying to be funny, but India still got a driver hanging aorund F1....and scot not speed went home....well maybe it is for the good of the sport, since they have NOT banned tobacco ads in India

[Crypt]

Love the corkscrew but problems are access and exit--big time messes at motogp, lack of fancy facilitites, plus it is run by SCRAMP, who has to deal with very nasty (NIMBY-types) folks who have imposed severe noise restrictions and so forth, and SCRAMP is barely keeping those NIMBY in check so to continue to exist just for motogp.....

It does not have anything close to the mega bucks demanded by Bernie, from Indy..........but

Sad but true.

[Madmonk]

There are only TWO viable venues for F1 in America: The Indianapolis Motor Speedway and Long Beach (which is in the Los Angeles market place). I'd like to see both venues on the calendar. But it ain't likely so long as Bernie demands these outrageous sanctioning fees.

That said, F1 at Cleveland/Road Atlanta/Road America/Laguna Seca would be awesome!

[ShiftingGears]

Might I also add that if the USGP is to be a street course it would be the 5th circuit that would be on the calendar thats a street circuit. No thankyou.

[ShiftingGears]

Edit: Make that the 6th. Bernies making the calendar look like Champ Cars, many street circuits placed for marketing and a minimal number of European circuits...

[-Helix-]

I still think they should make the Indy 500 an F1 race again. It would save the last not-completely-dead-yet American Open Wheel race and get the U.S. back into F1 at the same time. Might even attract some American teams, atleast some Indy one-offs (assuming they'd allow the traditional 33 cars)

I doubt TG would let another series run his race though. It would kill his crappy series nobody but him cares about too.

[ShiftingGears]

I still think they should make the Indy 500 an F1 race again. It would save the last not-completely-dead-yet American Open Wheel race and get the U.S. back into F1 at the same time. Might even attract some American teams, atleast some Indy one-offs (assuming they'd allow the traditional 33 cars)

I doubt TG would let another series run his race though. It would kill his crappy series nobody but him cares about too.

The F1 engines aren't built to run 100% throttle all the time, they'd break. And privateers can't pre-qualify and qualify for one race only, like what used to happen. Which is a shame, really.

But the reason why the Indy 500 was taken off the calendar in the first place was because it didn't achieve its purpose of raising interest in F1 and grand prix racing in the US.

[fan-veteran]

No way A F1 GP to be held as Indy500 ,at least not in this world :) . Somehow this may happen in an utopia world or times when everybody will be happy ...and peace will be everywhere :) .

We also should consider that a race held at 12 am at Long beach (California) will be watched at 8 pm in England (and 9 pm in Germany) for example.

[call_me_andrew]

The F1 engines aren't built to run 100% throttle all the time, they'd break. And privateers can't pre-qualify and qualify for one race only, like what used to happen. Which is a shame, really.

Well that's just a matter of slowing the cars down to where they need to lift in the turns. Maybe clip the wings and add another 100kg of ballast.

Besides, they'd need specialty engines anyway. The Indy 500 is longer than almost 3 grands prix.

[-Helix-]

It would create some added excitment atleast. :p

"Will Hamilton make it?! oooh... no... his engine blows on the last lap.. That's too bad."

It would be like the old days when they weren't sure if the cars could make it the whole 500 miles or not.

[Placid]

There are only TWO viable venues for F1 in America: The Indianapolis Motor Speedway and Long Beach (which is in the Los Angeles market place). I'd like to see both venues on the calendar. But it ain't likely so long as Bernie demands these outrageous sanctioning fees.

That said, F1 at Cleveland/Road Atlanta/Road America/Laguna Seca would be awesome!

I don't think Cleveland is a perfect venue for F-1. I prefer Detroit Belle Isle.

And what about lodging in Road America and Tooele, Utah?

[punkologist]

Edit: Make that the 6th. Bernies making the calendar look like Champ Cars, many street circuits placed for marketing and a minimal number of European circuits...


sounds good to me, street circuits are my favorite.

[ShiftingGears]

I can't stand most of them, they generally lack flow and half the corners are 90 degree right or left handers.

[call_me_andrew]

Well drivers tend to object to 90 degree vertical corners.

[Placid]

If they re-consider Indianapolis, will they like this new road course?

http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/pages/motogpcourse.php

I know that this should be in the 2-wheel thread, but want to make an exception.

[ShiftingGears]

Well drivers tend to object to 90 degree vertical corners.

That might be a problem for Tilkes Australian track. Since it costs $680 million, there must be a loop the loop in it somewhere.

[punkologist]

there must be a loop the loop in it somewhere.

hmm now that would make it interesting :)

[call_me_andrew]

If they re-consider Indianapolis, will they like this new road course?

http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/pages/motogpcourse.php

I know that this should be in the 2-wheel thread, but want to make an exception.

From what I've observed on this forum, the snake pit complex makes the track less desireable. But they might like the new complex that used to be turns 9 & 10.