Todt doesn't support Massa

[Clown8]

Todt said, " Red means stop, so if you ignored it, surely you will be disqualified "., even though the team was also at fault, by not alert enough, but the driver should see the Red light before the pit exit ".

I thought that Jean todt never critisized his drivers ?? :confused: ..remember that "Rascasse" incident last year at Monaco ? when Schumi "Stalled" the Ferrari, to secure his pole ? ..he didn't says a thing about that.

[Valve Bounce]

Not much he could say to someone running a red light. Even his own mother would find it difficult not to give him a clip under the ear.

[Daika]

Red is red, it means stop. It think the penalty was a bit too much but it is primary his fault.

[F1MAN2007]

Todt said, " Red means stop, so if you ignored it, surely you will be disqualified "., even though the team was also at fault, by not alert enough, but the driver should see the Red light before the pit exit ".

I thought that Jean todt never critisized his drivers ?? :confused: ..remember that "Rascasse" incident last year at Monaco ? when Schumi "Stalled" the Ferrari, to secure his pole ? ..he didn't says a thing about that.

Maybe it is because of my poor english, but what Todt said in french version it means other things?! :eek: Maybe the mistake is done in translation?

he said : C'est vraiment dommage que l'une de nos voitures ait été exclue du Grand Prix, mais nous n'allons pas nous plaindre pour ça. Lorsque le feu est rouge et qu'on ne s'arrête pas, on est tout naturellement exclu de la course. Il nous faut maintenant analyser ce qui est arrivé. Felipe Massa n'a pas prêté attention à ce feu, il était concentré sur sa sortie des stands. Il n'avait aucune voiture à dépasser et nous ne lui avons rien dit

Approximately in english it says

"It is really a shame that one of our cars was excluded from the Grand Prix, but we will not feel sorry for that. When the light is red and you don't stop, you are naturally excluded from the race. It is necessary for us now to analyze what happened. Felipe Massa did not pay attention to the red light, he was concentrated on his exit of the pit line (stands). He did not have any car to overtake and we said anything to him"

[leopard]

I twice get fined for ignoring red light :dozey:

[Valve Bounce]

He did not have any car to overtake and we said anything to him"


He didn't have any car to overtake so we didn't have to say anything to him.

The title of this thread is quite wrong. Thanks for the original version in French, F1MAN

[ShiftingGears]

Well OBVIOUSLY this means that Todt doesn't support Massa and THEREFORE this means that Ferrari are using team orders and favouring Raikkonen! I've got you now, Ferrari!



...

[Ranger]

As a matter of fact he is just stating the facts. Jean Todt is not silly, and this rule is pretty blunt and it was broken, so theres not much room to beat around the bush with this one. Facts are facts with this one.

[ioan]

Ferrari are not known for complaining when the facts are obvious.
And even if they wanted to complain, what would they achieve with it given that the car wasn't on track at the end?

I suppose that they argued the matter with the stewards before the penalty was handed out given that it took half a race for it, or maybe Renault was doing it for Fisi, or maybe the stewards were slow ( I think it took them very long also in JPM's case a couple of years ago).

[Valve Bounce]

Hey, the guy jumped a red light - end of story!!

[ArrowsFA1]

Massa said:
"...when I left the pits, I did not even look at the lights, partly because there were so many cars in pit lane behind me."

Fisichella's excuse was:
"I was concentrating on Kubica who was alongside me, and so focused on beating him that I didn't see the red light."

[SGWilko]

The whole point here surely is that both Fillipe and Giancarlo PASSED Kubica, who had stopped at the pit exit, because the red light was displayed.

They did not see the red light because, clearly, they were not looking.

However, partly in their defence, and as I think it is 6 of 1........., their respective teams should be keeping them informed.......

[ioan]

The whole point here surely is that both Fillipe and Giancarlo PASSED Kubica, who had stopped at the pit exit, because the red light was displayed.

You mean Trulli passed Kubica when exiting the pits, cause I believe that Felipe and Fisi were already in front of him.

[SGWilko]

You mean Trulli passed Kubica when exiting the pits, cause I believe that Felipe and Fisi were already in front of him.

I may be wrong on this Ioan, but I think the light went green shortly after, and Jarno was already up to speed as Robert was pulling away.

The bone of contention there is weather or not you are allowed to overtake in the part of the pit lane between exit and racetrack.

[ioan]

I may be wrong on this Ioan, but I think the light went green shortly after, and Jarno was already up to speed as Robert was pulling away.

The bone of contention there is weather or not you are allowed to overtake in the part of the pit lane between exit and racetrack.

Overtaking per se is not allowed under SC conditions. Given that Kubica was over the line where the pit lane finishes, than it was on track and thus should have been prohibited.

[SGWilko]

Overtaking per se is not allowed under SC conditions. Given that Kubica was over the line where the pit lane finishes, than it was on track and thus should have been prohibited.

That is a good point, and I think the Stewards have dropped a clanger by missing that one, especially as it was the Toyota that aided Roberts' departure from the race.

[ioan]

That is a good point, and I think the Stewards have dropped a clanger by missing that one, especially as it was the Toyota that aided Roberts' departure from the race.

The stewards didn't care about slower cars, the intent was to manage to put the fast ones at the end and get a good show for the occasional viewer.
This is the intent of most of the changes in F1 since MS and Ferrari dominated the field in 2002.
But artificially created show is not that interesting as they might believe and changing the technical rules to get a formula close to what it was in the 80's and beginning of 90's should have been the way.
Instead they change sporting regulations (see qualifying and SC rules for example) because it's easier even if the outcome is nothing special.

[ArrowsFA1]

The stewards didn't care about slower cars, the intent was to manage to put the fast ones at the end and get a good show for the occasional viewer.
This is the intent of most of the changes in F1 since MS and Ferrari dominated the field in 2002.
IMHO Ferrari's domination had nothing to do with the FIA's wish to prevent backmarkers interferring with the race when the safety car pulls in.

One of the reasons they did this was that the leader could pull out a massive lead because those racing him were prevented from passing a backmarker before they passed the start/finish line. Makes perfect sense to me.

Now, if the guy in second place is asleep and allows the leader to pull away in these circumstances then that's something different entirely.

[wmcot]

Hey, the guy jumped a red light - end of story!!

I agree, but my concern is the severity of the penalty. I'd like to find out exactly where the safety car was on the track when Massa and Fisichella left the pits. Perhaps the red light is turned on too early or left on too long after the train of cars has passed?

The matter of passing in the pit lane is really a problem. It's hard to tell exactly how many cars were overtaken, but I know I saw 2 or 3 at least. In ALMS racing, there is a track official at the end of pit lane holding up the drivers and making them queue until the exit re-opens.

[Valve Bounce]

It doesn't matter where anyone else is - you jump a red light and get pinged, you pay the fine.
Four years ago, I jumped one at Adelaide and George in Brisbane and got pinged. No excuses are valid for jumping red lights. :(

[ioan]

It doesn't matter where anyone else is - you jump a red light and get pinged, you pay the fine.(

As PSfan pointed it out jumping the start=jumping 5 redlights and the punishement is a 10 seconds stop n go penalty!

The rules were quoted in this thread and there is no black flag penalty mentioned anywhere. They handed out the same penalty to JPM 2 years ago, so it is fair I would say. But having the stewards to decide on the penalty because it isn't written in the rules may give different penalties at different tracks for the same fault.