Alonso bitches on Spanish press

[Trqster]

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2007/06/12/motor/1181636900.html?a=a533269ea41374c8143406a76c3d61f9&t=1181652171

From which I highlight:

"Desde el primer momento no he estado cómodo del todo. Estoy con un compañero inglés, que lo está haciendo genial, en un equipo inglés, y sabemos que todas la ayudas son para él."

For those of you with weak Spanish language skills:

"From the first moment I've not felt confortable at all (at McLaren). I have an English team-mate, that's doing great, in an English team and I know that he gets all the help (from the team)."


Comments?

[pino]

The interview in english :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59699

[RJL25]

people forget just how young Fernando still is, and young guys tend to be fairly thin skinned and get a bit sooky when things dont go their own way. I can see how Fernando might be feeling a bit left out, but he'll get over it

[pino]

people forget just how young Fernando still is, and young guys tend to be fairly thin skinned and get a bit sooky when things dont go their own way. I can see how Fernando might be feeling a bit left out, but he'll get over it

He's 26, he's not that young anymore ;)

[sonic_roadhog]

Its certain to feel a bit strange for FA to go from the comfort of Renault where he was given the kind of adoration reserved only for Schumi at Ferrari, and move to a team that has always had a more distant relationahip with drivers exept a select few (Mika, Senna and no maybe Lewis). It kind of makes me wonder yet again why he wanted to switch?

[ioan]

We all knew that he will throw the toys out of the pram at the first sign that he isn't favored.
Still not as funny as his Bahrain excuse: the lights fall on the car during the night.

He didn't complain about Monaco though! :rolleyes:

[Trqster]

I have serious doubts that Ron Dennis will tolerate these kind of comments about the team for that long... One thing's for sure, if Alonso keeps getting beat by Hamilton he'll keep on bitching (it's in his nature as we've already witnessed while he was at Renault) and that may eventually lead to an early departure from the team... The problem is (for him) that that aren't that many atractive alternatives out there (since Ferrari isn't an option).

I really like Alonso as a driver, and he's got a huge undeniable talent, but his character and behavior leaves much to be desired...

PS - Sorry for my English if it isn't that clear - I'm no native English speaker.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I think the guy needs a break. He's been under too much pressure over the years. He was dubbed the next big thing and he certainly lived up to the expectations. He duly took his first pole and win in '03 and then his first title in '05 when the car was good enough. In '06 he was under even more pressure to show his title was no fluke and face the challenge of Ferrari and MS, which he did brilliantly. After so many achievements ideally, he'd need an "off" year but yet again he's in the pressure zone with a new team and a new challenge and a teammate like no other teammate. Now what do you do? Kimi would relax by getting drunk, Jacques would dye his hair, Eddie would boot his girlfriend and find a new one. Fernando is different. He's seen very little life outside of racing. His idea of letting his emotions out is bitching to the racing press. Let's remember, he was complaining about his team and teammate in the heat of the title fight last year. So I tell you, give him a break and let him relax and chill out. He'll be okay.

[raphael123]

It kind of makes me wonder yet again why he wanted to switch?

lol, you think he should have stayed at Renault? :rolleyes:

[raphael123]

Still not as funny as his Bahrain excuse: the lights fall on the car during the night.



What was his excuse in Bahrain? I haven't heard this one.

[raphael123]

Though obviously Alonso's comments are not very political correct, and if you'd ask Ron whether he would want Ron saying these things, the answer would obviously be no. However....do we want drivers who only say what their bosses want them to say, or do we want drivers with personalities and characters?

The people critizising Alonso are probably the same people who slag the drivers off for not stating their opinions etc!

[ioan]

What was his excuse in Bahrain? I haven't heard this one.

There's even a thread somewhere on the forum about that. He said that Friday night the lights that were above his car did fall on the nose of his McLaren and because of them he had problems on race day. It was really the funniest i've ever heard in F1.

[ArrowsFA1]

Comments?
Autosport quote him as saying:

"I understood that from the beginning. But I'm not complaining."
I doubt very much whether he expected Hamilton be be as competitive as he is, but as a 2-time WDC Alonso has more than proved himself, and the season is far from over. He's in a race winning car, with a chance of winning the title for a third time in a row.

A storm in a media stirred teacup :rolleyes:

[ioan]

How is that he isn't complaining? He's previous words were exactly that, complaining.

[trumperZ06]

;) Alonso's reading too many of the English press clippings !!!

He does seem to "Bitch" when things are not going his way... remember last year @ Renault !!!

Lewis complained about "team orders"... just a couple of weeks ago !!!

IMO... Ron will wait at least another two or three races before favoring the driver who is leading in points.

[ArrowsFA1]

How is that he isn't complaining? He's previous words were exactly that, complaining.
Look at his actual comments, not the interpretation put on them by the media, or those looking for a particular angle. Here they are:

"Well, right from the start I've never felt totally comfortable."
Perfectly normal for a driver joining a new team. Just look at Kimi.

"I have a British teammate in a British team, and he's doing a great job and we know all the support and help that is going to him and I understood that from the beginning. But I'm not complaining"
I've moved one word and it changes the emphasis considerably. Lost in translation perhaps, moved around deliberately to make a better headline? Who knows? Even if Alonso said what was quoted, he's still praising his team-mate, acknowledging the situation and "not complaining".

"I've won two races out of six and I've finished on the podium four times and I have those 40 points that will allow me to fight for the title in the end."
No complaint there. Any driver would have preferred 6 wins, but still...

"I'm calm, I'm fine, but I know there's a certain impatience to return to the top and dominate. But I'm second in the championship, I'm eight points behind. I would be worse if I were at Renault, or Honda or any other team."
Impatient, but again no complaint. He could be worse off!

I do think Alonso is feeling the pressure from Hamilton, pressure that he didn't expect, and it's going to be fascinating to see how they both respond as the season goes on.

I'm sure we'll have worse headlines than "Alonso complains" from the media as the season goes on.

[sonic_roadhog]

lol, you think he should have stayed at Renault? :rolleyes:

I still very seriously believe that the Alonso effect would have the Renault closer to the front, plus no one had any idea that the R27 would be a let down. :)

[Trqster]

The question is if Hamilton keeps scoring big and puts himself in that position, will Ron Dennis favour Hamilton over Alonso on the WDC title fight for the last last few rounds..? And would then Alonso accept to defend Hamilton and team interests instead of his own personal interests?

Will Alonso, if starts getting beat on a regular basis by Hamilton, keep himself at McLaren next year? I mean Hamilton shouln't get any worse with a year long racing experience on his back... And Alonso surely doesn't have the necessary profile to be regular 2nd driver...

This season is deffo getting interesting.

[rabf1]

What he shouldn't have said was: "all the support and help is going to him and I understood that from the beginning"

Maybe he'll say he was mis-quoted or the translation got messed up and that what he meant was that Lewis would get the support from the fans. It seems ridiculous for him to claim that the team isn't providing whatever is necessary to a 2 time WDC who they are paying a lot of money.

[truefan72]

Alonso's irrational, and tempestious true colors finaly come out.,
Unless the entire team is working for him, and his teammate doesn't challenge him, then he is fine. As soon as the team offers a fair and balcned approach to both drivers, he bitches.

He certainly wasn't bitching in Monaco!

He acts like a spolied brat who expects people to bow down to his greatness, move out of his way on the track, and arrogantly expects all other drivers to slow up for his purposes.

He is obviously frustrasted and vents in the wrong manner.

That's the difference between him and Michael Schumacher. You would never see him bitch about his team. And if called to do so, would play a supportinog role to his teammate. I could never see Alonso, 10-12 races into the year willingly trying to help Hamilton win the WDC if he is adrift in the points.

I guess this type of rivalry is good for the sport, two fast drivers in identical cars competing for the WDC, In this case we can't say, "we will never know" because they are driving two diofferent cars" argument.

What a year it is turning out to be. 4-6 drivers with a real abilty to win races and even more to podium.

[raphael123]

Alonso's irrational, and tempestious true colors finaly come out.,
Unless the entire team is working for him, and his teammate doesn't challenge him, then he is fine. As soon as the team offers a fair and balcned approach to both drivers, he bitches.


As Arrows has said, read what he has actually said rather than what the media have made it out to be.



He certainly wasn't bitching in Monaco!


Did you expect him to? :rolleyes:



He acts like a spolied brat who expects people to bow down to his greatness, move out of his way on the track, and arrogantly expects all other drivers to slow up for his purposes.


I think the fact he's the only champion on the grid, the most successful driver out there, he deserves respect and status. However, I haven't read anywhere which suggests he expects drivers to slow up for his purposes, or move out of his way on track. Where have you got that opinion from?


He is obviously frustrasted and vents in the wrong manner.

That's the difference between him and Michael Schumacher. You would never see him bitch about his team. And if called to do so, would play a supportinog role to his teammate. I could never see Alonso, 10-12 races into the year willingly trying to help Hamilton win the WDC if he is adrift in the points.


You wouldn't your right, but then again it's because the team was set around Michael, even the second driver was hired for Michael, with Michael having a say in it! That is definately not the case at McLaren, or Renault when Alonso was there. As soon as Schumacher was being beaten by his team-mate Johnny Herbert in 95, Schumacher refused to share his data, but was still allowed access's to Herbert's data to see where he was losing out. That's not exactly 'working together' for the team, but working with the team for yourself.


I guess this type of rivalry is good for the sport, two fast drivers in identical cars competing for the WDC, In this case we can't say, "we will never know" because they are driving two diofferent cars" argument.

What a year it is turning out to be. 4-6 drivers with a real abilty to win races and even more to podium.

:up:

[Priorat]

I can read Spanish and Alonso said that all the help (from the team) goes to Hamilton.
Does this mean that Ron Dennis paid some drivers to crash after Hamilton's pit stops and before Alonso's in order to put the SC at the right time for Hamilton?
Did Dennis ordered his mechanics to put smaller brake disks in Alonso's car for him to go off at the first turn for four times?

I never used to put much attention on drivers comments, only on their driving, but Alonso's comments are so stupid...

[Buzz Lightyear]

i have no sympathy for fernado. he comes across as nice.. but arrogant.

what cant the guy admit that lewis is driving him off the road.. literally. 3 times in Canada. You cannot blame favoritism on this.

flavio will be laughing... but maybe trying to talk him back to renault?

ferrari wold maybe be interested with Kimi not performing?

The above two option will only happen if he continues to get a thumping from Lewis.

Just thinking... would Vodafone.. secretly... be willing to tip McLaren an extra £20/30 million.. to make Lewis world champion in his rookie year? They have really been pushing Lewis on TV.. tabloids and broadsheets.

On another point.... what do you think Schumacher was thinking on the pit wall... 'jesess..im glad I retired.. cause this hamiltion guy would whip my ass' or 'kimi... away and play with your dolphin.. and give me that ferrari..!'

[Big Ben]

That's the difference between him and Michael Schumacher. You would never see him bitch about his team. .

:laugh: :laugh: that´s one for the books.... MS never complained about his team :laugh: I wonder why...

[truefan72]

[quote="raphael123"]
I think the fact he's the only champion on the grid, the most successful driver out there, he deserves respect and status. However, I haven't read anywhere which suggests he expects drivers to slow up for his purposes, or move out of his way on track. Where have you got that opinion from?


He always uses his hand gestures to make his opinions clear on the road, and when that fails he dangerously maneauvers around those cars he feels haven't "heeded" to his demands. More in practice and Qualifying.

My main point with Alonso is that he shows more Arrogance than class.
There's nothing wrong with a bit of cockyness, but such over displays of arrogance certainly don't endear him to fans, his temmates, team, and journalists alike. At times I compare him to Lleyton Hewitt.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ron Dennis:

"It's completely understandable that the results of each Grand Prix are going to provide both the British and the Spanish media with an opportunity to hang on every word that the drivers say - and sometimes quotes are taken out of context, which can put a completely different spin on an innocent remark.

The Vodafone McLaren Mercedes team is made up by extremely passionate and competitive people, and there is a healthy competition between the teams working on each car - this is inevitable, and there is no issue with that.

However I can categorically state once again that both drivers have equal equipment, equal support and equal opportunity to win within the team, and both Fernando and Lewis know and support this.

Fernando's comments when read carefully are correct; he hasn't been with the team long and the relationship can only continue to develop. The team is not going to do anything to jeopardise this positive and growing partnership."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59710

[V12]

The question is if Hamilton keeps scoring big and puts himself in that position, will Ron Dennis favour Hamilton over Alonso on the WDC title fight for the last last few rounds..? And would then Alonso accept to defend Hamilton and team interests instead of his own personal interests?

Will Alonso, if starts getting beat on a regular basis by Hamilton, keep himself at McLaren next year? I mean Hamilton shouln't get any worse with a year long racing experience on his back... And Alonso surely doesn't have the necessary profile to be regular 2nd driver...

This season is deffo getting interesting.

Definitely. I think if both McLarens carry on running away with the points lead then they'll probably just let both drivers go at it - but if Massa keeps touch or Kimi makes a run for the title, I wonder if team orders will come into play in the final races...

[Gannex]

Be a little easier on Alonso, guys. Understand that the situation he finds himself in, being humiliated by a rookie, is a nightmare he never for one moment expected to endure. His reaction, not surprisingly, is one of shock, and he is so rattled that he is making constant mistakes. So the humiliation gets only worse.

Alonso is not the only driver to be in this position. Raikkonen has been more than a little upset at being upstaged by Felipe Massa, and it has had an enormous effect on Raikkonen's performances as well. Imagine a brilliant driver like him hitting the armco at Monaco in the place that he did during qualifying! It was a mistake worthy of Takuma Sato on a bad day, but an indication of how terribly upsetting it is to a driver to be unexpectedly beaten by a less highly regarded team-mate.

So Alonso, like Raikkonen, is running very scared at the moment. No wonder he looks around for excuses and reasons. His self-image demands it. Anyone but a superman would do the same thing in his shoes. And, as Arrows and Ron Dennis both said, the comments Alonso actually made were pretty restrained. But you can't blame the lad for being a little defensive right now. He's only human.

[fandango]

I don't think Alonso is bitching. It's not really his style, in that he doesn't go all moany about it. But he's explaining how things look to him. For him, I reckon he's sizing up the hill he has to climb, and these perceived difficulties are just other things he has to overcome.

When he started racing, almost his whole country was indifferent to F1, so he doesn't care what others think, he just does his stuff.

Having said all that, he's not doing himself any favours, and he should have kept his mouth shut :)

[Hazell B]

I'm agreeing with the last two posts - Alonso wasn't having a moan but simply saying what he thought about things as he sees them. I'm no fan of his, yet I can't see anything bitter in what he said.

[Daika]

Alonso mood changes when he is under pressure, it results in negative comments towards his teams. Same thing happend when Schumacher overtook him in the standings.

[AndyRAC]

Funny isn't it, for the last two years the British press have been loving Alonso, especially as he was beating 'their' nemesis; Schumacher. Now there is a young British challenger they've done an about turn, how bloody typical. Now enemy No1.

[Valve Bounce]

His use of the word "ALL" leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling. It does suggest that the English team are favouring Hamilton the way I read it, even allowing for a translation difference. However, I would ask here whether Fernando is playing mind games; he tried to bully his way past Massa into the lead and that failed, and then he tried to bully his way past Hamilton into the lead and that not only failed but damaged his cars underbody.

Is he really suggesting, in his interview, that he is the champion and the best driver out there, so they should give way to him? We get that all the time at the start of yacht races too.

I agree with Gannex here that he is being humiliated by a rookie and it doesn't feel good, especially for a double champ.

Everyone knows that I have admired Fernando's driving from the moment that he qualified that Minardi at Albert Park, but he is making a big mistake by playing the racial card here with Ron Dennis.

Maybe Fernando wants Ron to design and develop the McLaren around him, but the way I see it, most of us thought Ron was favouring Fernando at Monaco, didn't we. There's even a couple of threads going round about that.

I do sincerely hope that Lewis Hamilton wins the WDC this year. GO LEWIS!!

[VkmSpouge]

Reading the Autosport article it didn't seem Alonso was really bitching and I doubt McLaren are treating their two drivers as anything other than equals.

[jso1985]

:laugh: :laugh: that´s one for the books.... MS never complained about his team :laugh: I wonder why...

maybe because not even the team's chef was allowed to do something MS didn't want? :p :

Back on topic, I don't see it as "bitching", Fernando surely looks a bit desperate now and made a really stupid comment that shouldn't be done, but I don't think he's actually bitching agaisnt the team

[truefan72]

Be a little easier on Alonso, guys. Understand that the situation he finds himself in, being humiliated by a rookie, is a nightmare he never for one moment expected to endure. His reaction, not surprisingly, is one of shock, and he is so rattled that he is making constant mistakes. So the humiliation gets only worse.

.

That's muy point exactly, Gannex, It is the feeling that he is being humiliated that drives him to those comments and actions. Instead of looking at it as a great seaosn, a great challenge and an interesting but amicable competition, he looks at it as some sort of humiliation to be loosing to a spectacular once in a decade talent.

The sooner he realizes that Hamilton is more than a legitimate contender and warms up to the notion that this is a driving competion and not a procession for his benefit, the sooner he will be able to respond in a rational fashion and comptete appropriately.

Right now, it is hard to see clearly through the haze of anger, arrogance, and assumed humiliation.

[truefan72]

Reading the Autosport article it didn't seem Alonso was really bitching and I doubt McLaren are treating their two drivers as anything other than equals.

and therein lies the problem for Alonso. He doesn't want equal treatment, but rather favorable treatment for himself.

[F1MAN2007]

Cool Guys.

All of us here we don't know exactly the truth of what is going on inside the team. But what is clear is that Alonso is upset and all the mistakes he made last sunday, normaly rare for best drivers like him, explain what is on his mind.

He is upset of course, first he has been beaten by a rookie and secondly the team may be favorating Lewis than Alonso. Who knows? Lewis worked with Ron and McLalren more than 13 years, why not having close relationship then? All is possible. But this can't be a reason for Alonso to mourn but it should be a motivation for him to fight for a new challenge not getting upset and loose his mood. This is the area he still has to improve to be perfect. Otherwise he gonna lose the title and respect.

Before Lewis effect, it was rare to find any long article about the F1 in British media, if so it would be just few sentences to inform who worn the GP nothing else. But this time, the newspapers can't even find a place to put all the news or articles they want to talk about just Lewis?! Already here we have more than 4 threads talking only on Lewis.

And Tomorrow Ron will talk as well in special interview with some media and TVs about Lewis Hamiliton!!

So put yourselves in the shoes of Alonso, You are beaten by a rookie, you know what is going on in the team probably much is on the adavantage of the rookie, plus all the british media talking about a british driver and a british team, how you would feel?

Now it is like Button and DC they don't exit or are not british drivers.

I agree with someone who said that Alonso is in the same situation like Kimmi. F Massa is more happy in the team than Kimmi and Felippe is close to MS who still has a big influence in the team.

The championship is still open, let drivers say what they feel because they are more placed than us here. Maybe it is truth or not, but we can't stop sayk what they feel inside.

I am afraid that this dispute between the two drivers will coz Mclaren to lose the manufacturer championship if not handled wisely. Hope it will not happen.

[leopard]

It kind of makes me wonder yet again why he wanted to switch?
Because it was out of his prediction that his new teammate in the new team would be exceeding him.

[hugh_lee]

i don't think he believes that lewis being favored by the team was the reason why lewis won.

the real reason-and everyone should believe this because alonso never gives excuses- is because, accdg to him, lewis got lucky and he was unlucky. not because of anything else.. not lewis' talent and pace, not his grass escapades, and certainly not because sato dropped by and asked "who's your daddy?!"

[Valve Bounce]

Because it was out of his prediction that his new teammate in the new team would be exceeding him.

Good point here. When he signed on with McLaren, the other driver would be a rookie - so therrefore no reason for team orders even. He'd just blow the guy away with his World Championship speed.

Must have ben one helluva shock to see this rookie on the podium every race so far. And then being out qualified by the guy - utter humiliation. Better get this guy at the first corner and put him back in his place.

Bugger!! he ain't slowing down to let me through!! :eek:

[Cart750hp]

Still early to say Alonso won't do well with McLaren. I think he gets more annoyed because his rookie teammate is ahead, not what everyone expected. Alonso is a two time Champ and more of experienced between the two so, I'll see how these two would end up in the season.

[pino]

For those who can spanish hear and judge for yourself what Fernando said :

http://www.cadenaser.com/player.html?audioFile=20070612csrcsrdep_3.Aes

[Ranger]

The media stirring the pot, just like in Monaco.

[F1boat]

I find disgusting that same people who were defending Lewis whining two weeks ago now are bashing Fernando. Alonso is a champion and he is irritated, that's all. Someone said that Shumacher never reacted in such way.
Guys, Shumacher is... well, Shumacher. Stop comparing all drivers to him. It's not fair.

[ArrowsFA1]

The media stirring the pot, just like in Monaco.
Exactly :up:

2xWDC v rookie in the same team makes for a great story. When that rookie is beating the champ it makes for an even better story, particularly in the British media. Motorsport is headline news again, but those headlines are sometimes misleading, sometimes uninformed, and sometimes mischievous.

Just take a look at this story (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,3-2007270224,00.html) in The Sun for an example :rolleyes:

[wmcot]

No doubt there is tension in the team (like Prost & Senna) and pressure to perform. I think we will hear a few more comments from both LH (as in Monaco) and FA (after Canada) through the season.

However I would guess the problems in the team are maybe 10% real, 90% press seeking headlines!

[Ranger]

No doubt there is tension in the team (like Prost & Senna) and pressure to perform. I think we will hear a few more comments from both LH (as in Monaco) and FA (after Canada) through the season.

However I would guess the problems in the team are maybe 10% real, 90% press seeking headlines!

I'll agree with that 100%.

[Priorat]

For those who can spanish hear and judge for yourself what Fernando said :

http://www.cadenaser.com/player.html?audioFile=20070612csrcsrdep_3.Aes

After listening this you can be sure that there is no lost in translation. Alonso said that he is not very comfortable at McLaren because everybody is English but him and because of that all the help goes to Hamilton.
But it must be said that he was very pressed by the man asking to say this.
The wrong thing in Alonso in this and many other comments is that he is not very skilfull in avoiding the nets that the spanish media puts on him to get sounding reports. I feel sometimes sorry for Alonso because this spanish media with absolute no culture about F1, creates a lot of bashers to him being myself one of them.

[SGWilko]

I think the situation between the two drivers at McLaren is an issue of self belief.

Both Alonso and Lewis have it in spades, but I think Alonso also has a generous amount of self doubt that Lewis does not have.

Think about Lewis' comments in Monaco. I don't think that was whingeing at all, I think he knew that, on his strategy he had an excellent chance to beat Alonso, but for team reasons, it was not allowed to come to fruition.

To me then, his comments are frustration that he cannot show his talent to the full.

We have had quotes from Pat Symmonds wjo has stated that Alonso is fine so long as he is beating his team mate, as soon as Giancarlo beat him, he got riled and in crept the self doubt.

Also, Renault was unique in the emphasis that was put on car tyre synergy when on the Michelins. Alonso had the driving style to further complement that synergy.

While McLaren have undoubtedly got to grips with the Bridgestones with no problems, Alonso's style is still in need of adaptation to fully get the best out of the tyres.

As an example, In Canada, at the start, I am sure Lewis had to defend against Nick on the dirty part of the track, as the dust that came up showed, but he still made the corner. Alonso, more on the racing line still managed to outbrake himself.

Now, I am no race car driver, but to me, it suggests Alonso is still not 100% there with the tyres.

Alonso is a nice guy, I like him, and hope he comes good - but I am also a Brit, and would love to see Lewis make history and take the championship in his rookie year.

And will that then lead to Bernie and Silverstone renewing their contract, will the government dig deep and stump up some cash for redevelopment.......

[ArrowsFA1]

I think the situation between the two drivers at McLaren is an issue of self belief.

Both Alonso and Lewis have it in spades, but I think Alonso also has a generous amount of self doubt that Lewis does not have.
A very well observed point :up:

[VkmSpouge]

The media stirring the pot, just like in Monaco.

I have to agree. The British media will cry foul if it looks like Alonso gets better treatment and the Spanish media will do likewise if it looks like Hamilton gets the better deal. I feel sorry for McLaren.

[F1MAN2007]

....... I feel sometimes sorry for Alonso because this spanish media with absolute no culture about F1, creates a lot of bashers to him being myself one of them.

It is the same sort also with the British media.

Can we say now it is a battle between British and Spanish media?! Everyone wants to protect his idole, so who to trust then?

[ArrowsFA1]

Strike 2 for the Sun with this gem of motorsport journalism (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,3-2007270231,00.html).

What's the betting they phoned Watson up to comment on their first story. Given that the paper was reporting "civil war" within McLaren, and Alonso was "jealous" of Hamilton, Watson's response is perhaps not surprising, but this is exacty how these kind of things escalate.

[ioan]

Strike 2 for the Sun with this gem of motorsport journalism (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,3-2007270231,00.html).

What's the betting they phoned Watson up to comment on their first story. Given that the paper was reporting "civil war" within McLaren, and Alonso was "jealous" of Hamilton, Watson's response is perhaps not surprising, but this is exacty how these kind of things escalate.

Not even that bad, I was expecting worse given that it comes from "The Sun".

[F1MAN2007]

Strike 2 for the Sun with this gem of motorsport journalism (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,3-2007270231,00.html).

What's the betting they phoned Watson up to comment on their first story. Given that the paper was reporting "civil war" within McLaren, and Alonso was "jealous" of Hamilton, Watson's response is perhaps not surprising, but this is exacty how these kind of things escalate.

By the Sun?!!! :laugh:

[ArrowsFA1]

By the Sun?!!! :laugh:
Unfortunately it's the likes of The Sun, with their newly discovered support for the new great British hero, that add fuel to the fire. They then ask people to comment on their story, and before you know it the people actually involved are being asked to comment on a poor piece of journalism as if it were fact.

I'm sure we'll be seeing RD, LH & FA being asked all about this at the USGP press conferences :rolleyes:

Ahhh well...it's something to put fish & chips in. Just don't take it too seriously.

[janneppi]

It is the same sort also with the British media.

Can we say now it is a battle between British and Spanish media?! Everyone wants to protect his idole, so who to trust then?
As Wally from Dilbert said, trust only the lazy, they won't bother screwing with you.
So the most reliable source would a gardening magazine in Faroe Islands. :)

[ioan]

As Wally from Dilbert said, trust only the lazy, they won't bother screwing with you.
So the most reliable source would a gardening magazine in Faroe Islands. :)

Very good one! :laugh:

[Big Ben]

who the he** is Watson anyway?

[VkmSpouge]

John Watson is a former Grand Prix winner with McLaren in the early 80s.

[Valve Bounce]

Unfortunately it's the likes of The Sun, with their newly discovered support for the new great British hero, that add fuel to the fire. They then ask people to comment on their story, and before you know it the people actually involved are being asked to comment on a poor piece of journalism as if it were fact.

I'm sure we'll be seeing RD, LH & FA being asked all about this at the USGP press conferences :rolleyes:

Ahhh well...it's something to put fish & chips in. Just don't take it too seriously.


This sounds like some of the stuff posted here :p :

[wmcot]

I have to agree. The British media will cry foul if it looks like Alonso gets better treatment and the Spanish media will do likewise if it looks like Hamilton gets the better deal. I feel sorry for McLaren.

Well, look at it this way - agree with what is written or not, McLaren is getting a lot of publicity! RD must surely like that! It's got to increase the value of McLaren stock!

[Valve Bounce]

Well, look at it this way - agree with what is written or not, McLaren is getting a lot of publicity! RD must surely like that! It's got to increase the value of McLaren stock!


.............and advertising value for their sponsors must have increased greatly, probably by gazillions.

[Big Ben]

I've lived in Spain for some time and I had the chance to watch some GPs there... I have nothing good to say about that... they used to have a guy there... Gonzalor Serano or something like that... he assignment was to bash McLaren for an hour and a half.... and KR in particular.... of course he made some additional work and covered ferrari in 2006 too but he never gave up his first love... I would love to hear him now... I'm so curious what he has to say about McLaren... though I can guess... FA is so great when he wins and McLaren so bad when he loses...

I can only guess that it's the same way with the British press... I wouldn't bother to much with what both of them say... they are obviously biased ...

[Flat.tyres]

Lewis response

http://www.autocoursegpa.com/news~nid~149585.htm

[Garry Walker]

I think the situation between the two drivers at McLaren is an issue of self belief.

Both Alonso and Lewis have it in spades, but I think Alonso also has a generous amount of self doubt that Lewis does not have.


I agree with that. Just take a look at FP sessions. Alonso has found it necessary to do laps on soft tyres to get a better time than LH, obviously to boost his confidence.

-----

But damn, Im enjoying this how Alonso is showing signs of cracking already. The honeymoon is over fernando :D :D.

LH needs to beat FA more than ever before. Because I reckon that if he manages to increase the gap in the both next 2 races, then Alonso wont recover from that. Mentally not anyway. Hopefully :D

[ArrowsFA1]

LH needs to beat FA more than ever before. Because I reckon that if he manages to increase the gap in the both next 2 races, then Alonso wont recover from that. Mentally not anyway. Hopefully :D
It'll be fascinating to see how both Hamilton and Alonso respond as time goes on. There's the expectation that at some point Hamilton will make costly errors - that's what rookies are supposed to do - and that Alonso will gain the upper hand as the season goes on.

It's a shame you're willing Alonso to fail, instead of enjoying what we are seeing this season, but time will tell.

[Garry Walker]

It'll be fascinating to see how both Hamilton and Alonso respond as time goes on. There's the expectation that at some point Hamilton will make costly errors - that's what rookies are supposed to do - and that Alonso will gain the upper hand as the season goes on.

It's a shame you're willing Alonso to fail, instead of enjoying what we are seeing this season, but time will tell.

Hamilton will make mistakes, especially as the pressure increases. The main thing for him will be not get outpsyched, like he did for a while in GP2. If he manages that, all will be ok.

Werent you one who didnt exactly cry about Schumacher having problems in races?

[Robinho]

there's a difference between not mourning for a failure and actively rooting for it

[ArrowsFA1]

Back on topic about the press and the way things work, here's a Q&A from the USGP press conference:


Q. (Andrea Cremonesi – La Gazzetta dello Sport) Lewis, I don't know if you know what Fernando said to radio, Spanish radio. He said that the team supports you more than him because you are British. Do you feel there is all this support from the team, there is not equal support between the two drivers?
LH: I find it strange he said that because I feel that ever since he joined the team, the team have been extremely motivated to push us both toward winning. Ron and the other guys on the team have been working very hard to make sure we have equal opportunity. It's probably always going to be difficult in a business, but obviously I've got a great relationship with all the guys in the team because I've been with them since I was 13.
At the end of the day when Fernando came into the team, they were extremely excited and I feel built a very good relationship with him. So I don't see why he would say that. But I guess because he is Spanish and I am English, he might feel that way, but I don't agree with it personally.

[jas123f1]

It’s easy to understand how Alonso has it just now ;(

Hamilton is an Englishman, he is driving for an English team, the team speaks his own language (English), and Ron Dennis has more or less been supporting him from a promising young kid to that world champion challenger he is today, and to make matters worse, this rookie is very popular (even more popular than "two times world champion" himself), not only in his English team and UK (where every Englishman would like to see how an English rookie beats two times WDC) but also in the whole world and Alonso feels that. He knows that the same time when “rookie Hamilton” has nothing to loose, he has his whole “great driver image” at stake in the competition between them.

There is only one thing for Alonso to do – be faster than Lewis :) that’s it.

[Racehound]

Its certain to feel a bit strange for FA to go from the comfort of Renault where he was given the kind of adoration reserved only for Schumi at Ferrari, and move to a team that has always had a more distant relationahip with drivers exept a select few (Mika, Senna and no maybe Lewis). It kind of makes me wonder yet again why he wanted to switch?
because FA knew about the mcl technology centre and mcls f1 commitment....only equalled by ferrari!!!!......and reb=nault would not publicly state how much longer they would stay in f1 even tho FA had just won the 1st wdc for them!!!!!,,,,flashio squeaked that ghosn had said renault aint staying more than another 2 years if they dont win the cc!!!!...lets wait an see but i b elieve it

[Racehound]

because FA knew about the mcl technology centre and mcls f1 commitment....only equalled by ferrari!!!!......and reb=nault would not publicly state how much longer they would stay in f1 even tho FA had just won the 1st wdc for them!!!!!,,,,flashio squeaked that ghosn had said renault aint staying more than another 2 years if they dont win the cc!!!!...lets wait an see but i b elieve it
sorry.....first cc for them!!! :)

[Racehound]

It’s easy to understand how Alonso has it just now ;(

Hamilton is an Englishman, he is driving for an English team, the team speaks his own language (English), and Ron Dennis has more or less been supporting him from a promising young kid to that world champion challenger he is today, and to make matters worse, this rookie is very popular (even more popular than "two times world champion" himself), not only in his English team and UK (where every Englishman would like to see how an English rookie beats two times WDC) but also in the whole world and Alonso feels that. He knows that the same time when “rookie Hamilton” has nothing to loose, he has his whole “great driver image” at stake in the competition between them.

There is only one thing for Alonso to do – be faster than Lewis :) that’s it.
true

[Racehound]

I think the guy needs a break. He's been under too much pressure over the years. He was dubbed the next big thing and he certainly lived up to the expectations. He duly took his first pole and win in '03 and then his first title in '05 when the car was good enough. In '06 he was under even more pressure to show his title was no fluke and face the challenge of Ferrari and MS, which he did brilliantly. After so many achievements ideally, he'd need an "off" year but yet again he's in the pressure zone with a new team and a new challenge and a teammate like no other teammate. Now what do you do? Kimi would relax by getting drunk, Jacques would dye his hair, Eddie would boot his girlfriend and find a new one. Fernando is different. He's seen very little life outside of racing. His idea of letting his emotions out is bitching to the racing press. Let's remember, he was complaining about his team and teammate in the heat of the title fight last year. So I tell you, give him a break and let him relax and chill out. He'll be okay.
brilliant :) ....wish id said it!!!!! :)

[Priorat]

Next thing Alonso will say is that Ron Dennis signed him to have the best driver under control with a less effective car and put the cherry to Hamilton's development programme with McLaren with the drivers Championship at the first attempt.

[jarrambide]

After listening this you can be sure that there is no lost in translation. Alonso said that he is not very comfortable at McLaren because everybody is English but him and because of that all the help goes to Hamilton.
But it must be said that he was very pressed by the man asking to say this.
The wrong thing in Alonso in this and many other comments is that he is not very skilfull in avoiding the nets that the spanish media puts on him to get sounding reports. I feel sometimes sorry for Alonso because this spanish media with absolute no culture about F1, creates a lot of bashers to him being myself one of them.
I'll have to agree with Priorat, it wasn't the translator's fault, Alonso implied that the team is giving Hamilton preferential treatment, yes Priorat is right, the reporter was clearly looking for that response, but Alonso is not a kid, no matter how pressured you are, accusing the team of favoring a rookie over the 2 time world champion (which is getting paid a lot by the team and was signed specifically to have a chance at both titles [driver and constructor]) is just childish.

[Kevincal]

Alonso may just be telling the truth...Lewis has had a long term relationship with the whole McLaren team for darn near 10 years!!! And I don't see why Alonso would lie about him getting preferential treatment...But, whenever I see Alonso interviewed, he's usually smiling and doesn't seem concerned. Everyone is blowing his sub-par performance in Montreal way out of proportion...Did you all forget he won the Monaco Grand Prix just weeks ago? lol...Get off Hamilton's nuts already! ;)

And back to Hamilton... He has always seemed too cocky for my tastes...And while watching all of the drivers being interviewed on SPEED channel last night, Hamilton was by far the cockiest of all the drivers. Going so far as saying," I'm blessed with great driving skill" etc etc...I mean really, he seems nice, of course, but at the same time, he rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'll grow to like him more over time... :P If he maintains his podium finishes the next few races, I guess I'll have to admit that the constant clamouring for him has some merit. :)

[Racehound]

I can read Spanish and Alonso said that all the help (from the team) goes to Hamilton.
Does this mean that Ron Dennis paid some drivers to crash after Hamilton's pit stops and before Alonso's in order to put the SC at the right time for Hamilton?
Did Dennis ordered his mechanics to put smaller brake disks in Alonso's car for him to go off at the first turn for four times?

I never used to put much attention on drivers comments, only on their driving, but Alonso's comments are so stupid...
Alonsos comments are so stupid????!!!!!!.........you should re-read your own post a few times if ya wanna know what stupid sounds like!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

[truefan72]

I'll have to agree with Priorat, it wasn't the translator's fault, Alonso implied that the team is giving Hamilton preferential treatment, yes Priorat is right, the reporter was clearly looking for that response, but Alonso is not a kid, no matter how pressured you are, accusing the team of favoring a rookie over the 2 time world champion (which is getting paid a lot by the team and was signed specifically to have a chance at both titles [driver and constructor]) is just childish.

yep!

[Ranger]

Whilst his frustration may be understood, someone needs to slap him back together - his comments aren't gaining him any friends.

[XR8]

Aloso thinks that because Mclaren is a british team and Hambone is british they are favouring him! Do you think that Alonso is a racist?

[Timber]

Aloso thinks that because Mclaren is a british team and Hambone is british they are favouring him! Do you think that Alonso is a racist?
what make think that Alonso is a racist ?
I think should be a little more careful of what he is saying

[donKey jote]

Reminds me of King Carlos vs Colin McRae in Ford :p :
(He got the last laugh in Citroen though :D )
:dozey:

[janneppi]

Whilst his frustration may be understood, someone needs to slap him back together - his comments aren't gaining him any friends.
I would think that the team has already learned to not take what Alonso speaks to the press completely serious, they've know him for years in F1 and sure have seen his habits in Renault. And have been around Monty for two years.

I know people who bitch and moan all the time, it's just who they are, i've learned not to be too bothered about it.

[Gannex]

Alonso is a very grounded person. He lived in Oxford, in an apartment, and shunned the press even when he was champion of the world. He kept in touch with his family, stayed close to his friends from before he was famous, and never became the celebrity race-car driver that he could have become. He stayed Fernando.

He was a good guy then and he's a good guy now, but now he is being challenged as no World Champion has been challenged since twenty years or more. Cut the man some slack. These are hard times for Fernando Alonso. He needs the support of fans and critics alike. He is one of F1's greats, as far as I'm concerned, whatever comes next. It is no shame to be eclipsed by Lewis Hamilton.

[AndyRAC]

Totally agree, can't believe the British media, the last 2 years Alonso has been the darling of the press because he beat Schuey, now he's up against 'our Lewis' they've turned on him. Alonso is a great champion, this season is not even half run, he can still be the WDC.

[wedge]

I think we're all looking for Fernando's flaws.

He seems somewhat psychologically harmed - remember he had similar outburst in Shanghai last year where he claimed Renault weren't backing him enough as he liked.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Alonso move elsewhere with a #1 driver clause of some kind - Eddie Jordan mentioned that was Alonso's biggest mistake when he signed for McLaren.

[wmcot]

I think we're all looking for Fernando's flaws.



I agree. It's amazing how good we are at pointing out the flaws of others!!!

[F1MAN2007]

Alonso is a greatest driver in F1. Even yesterday he was quicker than anyone else and he showed that in lap 38 weher he attempted to overtake the rockie while on the same car.

Alonso is passing through hard moments which he didn't expect but I am sure this will increase his confidence and real motivation to defend his title and prove who he is. Please give him time.

He has beaten the Guy who is seen like the legend of F1 (MS), so I am not worried with what is happening today and the championship still open.

[andreag]

Alonso is a very grounded person. He lived in Oxford, in an apartment, and shunned the press even when he was champion of the world.
He is the world champion.

[ArrowsFA1]

Even if Alonso was moaning to the press, I sensed a change in him this weekend.

There's no doubt he has been surprised just how competitive Hamilton has been from the word go. He said as much in the post-race press conference:
"I think it has been a surprise for me, and a surprise for everybody, to see him doing so well and leading the championship at this point." Having joined McLaren as 2xWDC he must have expected to have a similar, if not easier, time of things in his new team compared with Renault, and realising that things were very different must have taken some adjusting to.

IMHO the USGP showed that Alonso is adjusting. This was a different Alonso to the slightly desperate one we saw in Spain and Canada, and he's always said his season would get stronger as time goes on as he gets used to the team. Now he realises the task that faces him I suspect he'll respond as champions do.

We have a remarkable 10 races ahead of us to enjoy.

[osg]

Even if Alonso was moaning to the press, I sensed a change in him this weekend.

There's no doubt he has been surprised just how competitive Hamilton has been from the word go. He said as much in the post-race press conference: Having joined McLaren as 2xWDC he must have expected to have a similar, if not easier, time of things in his new team compared with Renault, and realising that things were very different must have taken some adjusting to.

IMHO the USGP showed that Alonso is adjusting. This was a different Alonso to the slightly desperate one we saw in Spain and Canada, and he's always said his season would get stronger as time goes on as he gets used to the team. Now he realises the task that faces him I suspect he'll respond as champions do.

We have a remarkable 10 races ahead of us to enjoy.

agreed arrows........ the change in demenour in the press conference was quite surprising given the recent press. It is indeed a remarkable 10 races we have in front of us, and i see it going down to the wire TBH. At some point, Lewis WILL make a mistake, it is a matter of whether it costs him just a bit of track position or maximum points through a DNF. I personally will be stunned if he or the car can make it through a full season with nil issues............. on the other hand, this rookie is not the norm now is he?

[Garry Walker]

Alonso is a greatest driver in F1. Even yesterday he was quicker than anyone else and he showed that in lap 38 weher he attempted to overtake the rockie while on the same car.
If he was quicker as you claim, why was he beaten pacewise in the qualy and finished behind LH in the race too?

[wedge]

Team orders? Alonso gestured to the pit wall straight after he tried to overtake Lewis. No one knows the true story - cooling the car was not a valid excuse!

Certainly the team rivalry has now become intense. Brundle mentioned that the drivers/engineers don't share strategies/data for the first pitstop. And here's something I found from yesterday's post-race press conference:


Q. (Steve Cooper - Autosport) Fernando, you said that 90 percent of the race is won or lost at the first corner and by extension that means that the fuel loads and the times you say in Q3 are very important for that. Does the team have a system of allocating who will go for the fastest run in qualifying and should it be you? Or decided on a race-by-race basis?

FA: I think Ron Dennis is available now to do interviews. Ron will be available now. So I drive the car and Ron can probably answer these questions.

[Ranger]

And here's something I found from yesterday's post-race press conference:

Seems like a pretty reasonable response. Explaining all the teams tactics to a very interested media isn't something that he's paid to do.

[ioan]

Seems like a pretty reasonable response. Explaining all the teams tactics to a very interested media isn't something that he's paid to do.

I would rather say that after the Monaco affair Ron imposed them not to comment on questions about strategy because he doesn't want the history to be repeated. :D
After all Ferrari seem to be the ones letting their drivers fight on the track, not McLaren. ;)

[Big Ben]

I would rather say that after the Monaco affair Ron imposed them not to comment on questions about strategy because he doesn't want the history to be repeated. :D
After all Ferrari seem to be the ones letting their drivers fight on the track, not McLaren. ;)

Did you miss the USGP or what?

The fact that you point put that Ferrari lets its drivers fight proves one more that even you know it wasn't always like that...

They (the McDrivers) seem to be starting every race with similar loads of fuel now... I think they do this to give both drivers the same chance to get the pole... from that point they probably are free to choose different strategies... or maybe not... IMO FA should have made a longer second stint and try to pass LH during his second pitstop

these days the quals are more important than the race... it is sad to see a race decided in one or two laps

About his FA's statements... I'd say he's probably right... I'm not saying LH's favored but I'm sure he gets more attention because of his status... He's a rookie, he's a rookie... he's learning etc... while FA is a two times WDC now... He knows how things work.... he probably expected to be recieved and treated like the man who brought the No 1 on their cars

There was someone talking here about FA being a racist because he said something about the British... well... I didn't know that the British are a different race though I can see so often many of them think they are...

I had nothing against him... but Eddie Jordan seems to be an idiot!

[Zico]

Alonso is a very grounded person. He lived in Oxford, in an apartment, and shunned the press even when he was champion of the world. He kept in touch with his family, stayed close to his friends from before he was famous, and never became the celebrity race-car driver that he could have become. He stayed Fernando.

He was a good guy then and he's a good guy now, but now he is being challenged as no World Champion has been challenged since twenty years or more. Cut the man some slack. These are hard times for Fernando Alonso. He needs the support of fans and critics alike. He is one of F1's greats, as far as I'm concerned, whatever comes next. It is no shame to be eclipsed by Lewis Hamilton.


Well said....

[truefan72]

Even if Alonso was moaning to the press, I sensed a change in him this weekend.

There's no doubt he has been surprised just how competitive Hamilton has been from the word go. He said as much in the post-race press conference: Having joined McLaren as 2xWDC he must have expected to have a similar, if not easier, time of things in his new team compared with Renault, and realising that things were very different must have taken some adjusting to.

IMHO the USGP showed that Alonso is adjusting. This was a different Alonso to the slightly desperate one we saw in Spain and Canada, and he's always said his season would get stronger as time goes on as he gets used to the team. Now he realises the task that faces him I suspect he'll respond as champions do.

We have a remarkable 10 races ahead of us to enjoy.

yes I noticed that too. I think he realizes now that his biggest comeptition for the WDC is the guy sitting 15 feet away from him. That will require adjusting and much more. He also realizes that this can become a unique and highly appetizing competion without unnecessary animosity. Go out and race hard, share the info and have a true champinship race with the best driver winning... and gain a Friend at the same time. Someone who can relate to your stature and racecraft.

[f1rocks]

Alonso is back to his mistakes again. First he tries to overtake on the outside and Lewis rightfully shut the door with the 1 move allowed. Secondly he runs wide like a spoilt little boy showing fists to his team. Then he makes a mistake under pressure and runs wide losing a vital couple of seconds. Those proved crucial during the pits.

If he has any class he should just admit that Lewis was better than him in the last 2 races. But his ego is too big for him to admit this. First he says Lewis was lucky in Canada. Yesterday he says the start cost him the race. Who was responsible for qualifying second. Who made the mistake in quali..

Lewis Hamilton on the other hand showed amazing class. Even in the podium he celebrated with Alonso like a true teammate.

Alonso has proved that he is nothing more than a 2 time lucky WDC. Lucky in 2005 because Kimi's engine kept blowin. Lucky in 2006 because MS engine failed at a time when he made a miraculous recovery to catch and overtake the 23 points lead in the WDC.

Being schooled by a rookie who has never driven in the circuits before is a very a big blow to his image. That record will never be erased from his career stats..

[donKey jote]

IMO FA should have made a longer second stint and try to pass LH during his second pitstop

Except it isn't FA who decides ;)
I might be wrong (I'm quoting pitpass (http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31806) :p ), but
1st stop he was in after LH and pitted 1 sec less
2nd stop he was called in before LH and again pitted less time

Not that I care too much: I'm enjoying seeing Alonso in a competitive car (remember the threads here about FA regretting going to McLaren :D ), and I'm enjoying seeing LH giving him a good fight. I hope it brings even more out of FA. And I hope it's not staged either way.

Gannex have a big beer :up:

[donKey jote]

scratched record
:dozey:


Lewis Hamilton on the other hand showed amazing class.
Yes, unlike at the Monaco press conference :p :

Why don't you sit back and enjoy without the trolling? :rolleyes:

[Kevincal]

Alonso is back to his mistakes again. First he tries to overtake on the outside and Lewis rightfully shut the door with the 1 move allowed. Secondly he runs wide like a spoilt little boy showing fists to his team. Then he makes a mistake under pressure and runs wide losing a vital couple of seconds. Those proved crucial during the pits.

If he has any class he should just admit that Lewis was better than him in the last 2 races. But his ego is too big for him to admit this. First he says Lewis was lucky in Canada. Yesterday he says the start cost him the race. Who was responsible for qualifying second. Who made the mistake in quali..

Lewis Hamilton on the other hand showed amazing class. Even in the podium he celebrated with Alonso like a true teammate.

Alonso has proved that he is nothing more than a 2 time lucky WDC. Lucky in 2005 because Kimi's engine kept blowin. Lucky in 2006 because MS engine failed at a time when he made a miraculous recovery to catch and overtake the 23 points lead in the WDC.

Being schooled by a rookie who has never driven in the circuits before is a very a big blow to his image. That record will never be erased from his career stats..

Gee, judging by your signature, nobody could guess which driver you are biased towards... ;) Lewis clearly threw a cheap block on Alonso going down the straight. Alonso caught him fair and square, and Lewis shows no respect to his teamate and Honorable Champion...I really found that move distastefull. I really hope people aren't writing off Alonso yet...because I think he's gonna come back swinging in the European rounds...

Lewis is also way overdue for some bad luck. ;) I just find the man WAY too confident/cocky/full of himself. He needs a reality check... That is the reason he is so fast too. He's had absolutely everything go his way so far. The real test will be when he finally makes a huge mistake and/or has some really bad luck, which is bound to happen sooner or later, not that I wish it upon him.

[Kevincal]

Oh, and I really hope people aren't claiming Hamilton to be the best after not even a half season of F1 in the best car on the grid... It's not like he's been way faster than Alonso...only a tiny bit faster in half the races. Alonso did catch him yesterday, and Lewis tried to squeeze him into the infield wall... Until Hamilton has won 2 WDC's, Alonso is the better man/driver in my opinion. The way Hamilton talks to the press, you would think he's won more WDC's than MS... I even put Kimi and Massa in front of Lewis, until Lewis matches their race wins... I would just love to see how Lewis would do if he were like any other normal rookie to F1 in a crap car...He would be a nobody, instead of the god people make him out to be...

[wedge]

Apparantly Alonso's swerve to the pitwall was because he felt McLaren should 'order' Lewis to move over because Alonso was the quicker car at that point in the race.

If true, then I've lost some respect for ALonso. He should earn his position on the race track, not trying to influence team orders. :down:

[Kevincal]

No...the reason he did that was because Lewis was being a little prick the lap before by blocking him down the straight. Alonso caught him in the middle of the damn straight! But Lewis treated him like a rival driver from another team... I'd be annoyed too, if I was Alonso.

[wedge]

Dude, its called racing!

Why should Lewis treat his team mate different to other competitors?

Face it, Alonso is in new territory, against a team mate who is an equal, if not more.

[Ian McC]

No...the reason he did that was because Lewis was being a little prick the lap before by blocking him down the straight. Alonso caught him in the middle of the damn straight! But Lewis treated him like a rival driver from another team... I'd be annoyed too, if I was Alonso.

Crap

Why should he give way? He is there to win a race and Alonso is a rival, no doubt if it was the other way round you wouldn't be calling Alonso childish names :rolleyes:

[Valve Bounce]

I've read the above posts and I must say there seems to be some confusion here. If the Ferraris ewre catching up rapidly from behind and Alonso had a clearly much faster car, then Yes!! One whould expect the order to come from Ron Dennis for Lewis to let Alonso through.

The fact was that Alonso was only marginally faster in lap times, and he appeared to be much faster down the straight when he slipstreamed up to Lewis, but as he pulled out of the slipstream, his car was only very slightly faster than Hamilton's, and he was unable to pull off a pass on the straight.

Under the circumstances, with no imminent Ferrari threat, why the heck should he allow Alonso to pass him? Do you really think that if the situation was reversed that Alonso would have let Lewis pass him?

And I say this because I am an Alonso fan, but I do believe in fair racing, not this pull over nonsense.

And Alonso pulling over towards the pitwall to make a gesture to the pits is pure nonsense. Did he expect Ron to instruct Lewis to pull over?

[jso1985]

I saw no gesture at all when Alonso pulled towards the pitwall...

maybe he tried to trick Lewis

[Valve Bounce]

I saw no gesture at all when Alonso pulled towards the pitwall...

maybe he tried to trick Lewis

It was mentioned during the race that he made a gesture as if he had just won the race, whatever that meant. However, from the rcae replay on my tape, if was difficult to see anything at all except the swerve, which amazed me.

[Kevincal]

Dude, its called racing!

Why should Lewis treat his team mate different to other competitors?

Face it, Alonso is in new territory, against a team mate who is an equal, if not more.

Um...sorry but blocking is pretty chicken **** in any racing... Hamilton should have held his line and not swerved to the inside to block Alonso who was obviously gonna pass him...

[Kevincal]

Crap

Why should he give way? He is there to win a race and Alonso is a rival, no doubt if it was the other way round you wouldn't be calling Alonso childish names :rolleyes:

He wouldn't have been giving anything away, Alonso earned the position by catching up to him and was going to pass him cleanly on the only part of the track that there could be passing. But instead, Hamilton childishly swerved accross the track...

[Kevincal]

And obviously that swerve Alonso did the lap after Lewis blocked him was because...well...DUH, Alonso was quite annoyed from being blocked on the only part of the track that it was possible to pass!

[f1rocks]

Gee, judging by your signature, nobody could guess which driver you are biased towards... ;) .

So you only judge posts based on signatures. I kinda get that...



Lewis clearly threw a cheap block on Alonso going down the straight. Alonso caught him fair and square,

Alonso got lucky because Lewis got held up by backmarkers and Alonso got a tow. I was there at the circuit as they both flew by. It was a brilliant block by Lewis. We went crazy at that move..Lewis is a fighter and he wont hand it to Lord Alonso on a plate....



and Lewis shows no respect to his teamate and Honorable Champion...
.
Honorable in what way. Better word to use would be LUCKY.....

.

I really found that move distastefull. I really hope people aren't writing off Alonso yet...because I think he's gonna come back swinging in the European rounds...
.
We shall see. Lewis knows the European circuits also. He had never driven in USA an Canada and still kicked Alonso's butt...

.

Lewis is also way overdue for some bad luck. ;) I just find the man WAY too confident/cocky/full of himself. He needs a reality check... That is the reason he is so fast too. He's had absolutely everything go his way so far. The real test will be when he finally makes a huge mistake and/or has some really bad luck, which is bound to happen sooner or later, not that I wish it upon him.

Actually Alonso deserves bad luck. He has been lucky last 2 years. I guess it is worse for his ego to be schooled by a rookie.... :D

[f1rocks]

Oh, and I really hope people aren't claiming Hamilton to be the best after not even a half season of F1 in the best car on the grid... It's not like he's been way faster than Alonso...only a tiny bit faster in half the races. Alonso did catch him yesterday, and Lewis tried to squeeze him into the infield wall... Until Hamilton has won 2 WDC's, Alonso is the better man/driver in my opinion. The way Hamilton talks to the press, you would think he's won more WDC's than MS... I even put Kimi and Massa in front of Lewis, until Lewis matches their race wins... I would just love to see how Lewis would do if he were like any other normal rookie to F1 in a crap car...He would be a nobody, instead of the god people make him out to be...

This is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen..So Lewis is just a bit faster than Alonso....How come that happened... A 2 time WDC slower than a rookie.....

If Lewis beats Alonso this year he will definitely be higher than Alonso. He can only improve as this is just his rookie year. Admit it that the guy beat your idol fair and square.....


Lewis has nothing to lose. It is just his rookie year. He is under no pressure. However Alonso has already lost his reputation being schooled by a rookie..This has never happened to Senna, Prost, MS, Mika, Kimi, Massa etc...

Alonso is all alone in the "being schooled by a rookie" category.... :D

[f1rocks]

Apparantly Alonso's swerve to the pitwall was because he felt McLaren should 'order' Lewis to move over because Alonso was the quicker car at that point in the race.

If true, then I've lost some respect for ALonso. He should earn his position on the race track, not trying to influence team orders. :down:

Take a look at the following image about what Alonso did:

[Valve Bounce]

Um...sorry but blocking is pretty chicken **** in any racing... Hamilton should have held his line and not swerved to the inside to block Alonso who was obviously gonna pass him...


Hamilton was not blocking - he was defending his position. Maybe you should check the rules on swerving and blocking before you make yourself look even sillier than you already do.

On what basis do you postulate that Hamilton should have held his line. Which other F1 driver would have been stupid enough to have simply held his line? You can bet Alonso would not have held his line when in the same position! What races have you been watching? Alonso fending SchM for many, many laps? That is called great driving. Not pretty chicken!!

[f1rocks]

Hamilton was not blocking - he was defending his position. Maybe you should check the rules on swerving and blocking before you make yourself look even sillier than you already do.

On what basis do you postulate that Hamilton should have held his line. Which other F1 driver would have been stupid enough to have simply held his line? You can bet Alonso would not have held his line when in the same position! What races have you been watching? Alonso fending SchM for many, many laps? That is called great driving. Not pretty chicken!!

Alonso also did a chop on Massa at the start.. But nobody even mentioned that....When MS did that then people used to hate it... Complete double standards..

Alonso has made just too many bonehead moves at the start and during the race this year...

[wmcot]

Um...sorry but blocking is pretty chicken **** in any racing... Hamilton should have held his line and not swerved to the inside to block Alonso who was obviously gonna pass him...

You must be new to F1 if you thought that was blocking!

[wmcot]

No...the reason he did that was because Lewis was being a little prick the lap before by blocking him down the straight. Alonso caught him in the middle of the damn straight! But Lewis treated him like a rival driver from another team... I'd be annoyed too, if I was Alonso.

So being annoyed and swerving in front of the pits accomplished...WHAT???

[wmcot]

Oh, and I really hope people aren't claiming Hamilton to be the best after not even a half season of F1 in the best car on the grid... It's not like he's been way faster than Alonso...only a tiny bit faster in half the races. Alonso did catch him yesterday, and Lewis tried to squeeze him into the infield wall... Until Hamilton has won 2 WDC's, Alonso is the better man/driver in my opinion. The way Hamilton talks to the press, you would think he's won more WDC's than MS... I even put Kimi and Massa in front of Lewis, until Lewis matches their race wins... I would just love to see how Lewis would do if he were like any other normal rookie to F1 in a crap car...He would be a nobody, instead of the god people make him out to be...

I agree that he was lucky to find himself in the MP4-22 (BTW - I'm not a big McLaren fan) but you must admit that what he has been able to do in the car (so far) has been amazing. He is not a normal rookie, bu he is not a god either.

Yes, Alonso caught him on lap 38(?) but in F1 catching is not passing no matter who is in front. Nobody moves over just because the driver behind has won more races or championships regardless of what team he is on unless the team has orders. A driver won't decide to do that on his own if he's leading a race!

No, he didn't try to squeeze Alonso into the pit wall. He made one single move to defend as he is allowed. If (as you claim) Alonso was frustrated by this then it's his problem, not Hamilton's.

I'm a Ferrari fan so I'm pretty neutral on the whole Hamilton/Alonso thing. It is exciting to watch the battle on track and it is also great fodder for the press to use to stir up emotions (as can be seen.) I'm sure Max, Bernie, and Ron are loving it because it gives them even more publicity.

[ArrowsFA1]

Alonso has proved that he is nothing more than a 2 time lucky WDC. Lucky in 2005 because Kimi's engine kept blowin. Lucky in 2006 because MS engine failed at a time when he made a miraculous recovery to catch and overtake the 23 points lead in the WDC.

Being schooled by a rookie who has never driven in the circuits before is a very a big blow to his image. That record will never be erased from his career stats..
Hamilton's perfomances do not diminish Alonso's skill & ability, nor do they erase his achievements. Luck does not win a WDC, and luck does not enable you to defend that WDC. Both championships were earned by a team and driver who did a better job than the opposition.

This need to denigrate Alonso on the basis of Hamilton's ability is bemusing :crazy: :rolleyes:

[ioan]

So being annoyed and swerving in front of the pits accomplished...WHAT???

Gave us a hint that he isn't happy no matter what they say in the press releases! ;)

[OTA]

Arrows, on the mark as usual.

LH is a great breath of fresh air for F1, he's extremely talented and a true competitor who has the unlikely chance of going for the title in his first year. That is a feat that should definately be praised by all, moreover when he's doing it versus the current champion. But even if we write pages and pages about LH greatness, that he fully deserves, it still doesn't diminish a bit what Alonso is doing and has done in his careeer.

Or is it that anyone thinks that other drivers would had Hamilton doing their paperwork. Don't think so

Cheers
David

[Ranger]

However Alonso has already lost his reputation being schooled by a rookie..This has never happened to Senna, Prost, MS, Mika, Kimi, Massa etc...

Alonso is all alone in the "being schooled by a rookie" category.... :D

So the truth is out - you simply watch F1 as a means of fortnightly sadistic entertainment. :rolleyes:

Perhaps we should put MS back behind the wheel of the McLaren and see how he fares against said rookie. Maybe we should bring back Prost to see how he goes too! Hell, why stop there?! Lets dig up Ayrton and pair him against Hamilton.

Trust me, Alonso has 4 major F1 records, 2 F1 world championships and a damn lot of money so I very much doubt he cares about the reputation that you perceive he has lost.

Like all top F1 drivers he has an insatiable appetite for victory and doesn't like being beaten, and you can be assured that's pretty much all he cares about right now as far as you know.

[ioan]

So the truth is out - you simply watch F1 as a means of fortnightly sadistic entertainment. :rolleyes:

Why these personal comments?


Perhaps we should put MS back behind the wheel of the McLaren and see how he fares against said rookie. Maybe we should bring back Prost to see how he goes too! Hell, why stop there?! Lets dig up Ayrton and pair him against Hamilton.

MS would be more than enough! :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Hamilton's perfomances do not diminish Alonso's skill & ability, nor do they erase his achievements. Luck does not win a WDC, and luck does not enable you to defend that WDC. Both championships were earned by a team and driver who did a better job than the opposition.

This need to denigrate Alonso on the basis of Hamilton's ability is bemusing :crazy: :rolleyes:

:up: This really needs to be put into perspective.

[MAX_THRUST]

If you take the last three races into account, I can't see why Alonso is upset...If he had out qualified Lewis who would have won? Alonso, as he did in Monaco. We did not see Lewis swerving at the pitt wall or gesturing at the pitt crew. He may have looked less then happy at not winning but he did not go about it afterwards.
I don't think internationaly this makes Alonso look so good, he is the elder of the two and should show more restaint. If he out qualifies Lewis then he can have the win. Equal status means if it is the other way around Lewis takes the win, I think what is getting at Alonso, is no matter what, he wants to be ahead of Lewis incase the Ferraris catch up and the man with the highest points gets priority treatment.

Or is Alonso just positioning his authority on the team???? He's be better off spending his energy beating the new kid...

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm sure the Alonso/Hamilton/McLaren situation will continue to be reported on throughout the season, and we're already seeing a shift in emphasis from Alonso:

"We have done just seven races, not even half the championship. And now I'm more comfortable than before and full of confidence that everything will go well from now on."

"I think we are better than a week or two ago. They know we have a very good car, that everything is going well, that reliability is working, the car is very fast, and that both drivers are capable of winning races and finishing on the podium."

"After last week, when I said that they were happier when Hamilton won, something that everybody noticed too, I think they are now being more careful with their manners. And (at Indy) we saw a more general joy"

"Since he is new in the category and he doesn't know the tracks, on Fridays he gets all the data from my car and my laps so he knows the circuit better and knows where the time is found."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59968

That last one is an interesting point and one that I hadn't thought of before. Of course the driver still has to drive and produce the laptimes, which Hamilton is certainly doing, but it's evidence of McLaren's even-handedness.

Team and drivers are learning more about each other, and working better together than at the start of the season, which is ominous for their rivals!

[F1MAN2007]

If you take the last three races into account, I can't see why Alonso is upset......

He is upset because Lewis is using his (Alonso) data to beat him.

[Zico]

He is upset because Lewis is using his (Alonso) data to beat him.


All teams drivers share telemetry Data as far as Im aware... the only rumoured exception I know of was when MS dictated that his team mate at the time, Johnny Herbert had no access to his telemetry after matching him in practice one session. So for Alonso its not even a reason never mind a valid one.

[kalasend]

Um...sorry but blocking is pretty chicken **** in any racing... Hamilton should have held his line and not swerved to the inside to block Alonso who was obviously gonna pass him...

Taking a tow from other driver is extremely chicken'ish behavior. Alonso should pass on his own speed if he has balls. This is aero-robbery!! I am glad he did not succeed.

[F1MAN2007]

All teams drivers share telemetry Data as far as Im aware... the only rumoured exception I know of was when MS dictated that his team mate at the time, Johnny Herbert had no access to his telemetry after matching him in practice one session. So for Alonso its not even a reason never mind a valid one.

That is why I don't believe on RD saying that all drivers are treated equally. It is clear LH is using data from FA.

If they want a fair fight, give them exactly the same car and leave them with their respective mechanics the responsability of setting the car and we shall see who is right.

[donKey jote]

If he had out qualified Lewis who would have won? Alonso, as he did in Monaco. We did not see Lewis swerving at the pitt wall or gesturing at the pitt crew. He may have looked less then happy at not winning but he did not go about it afterwards.

Funny that, wasn't Monaco where the whole "civil war inside McLaren" started ? "At the end of the day, I have No. 2 on my car" etc :)

[donKey jote]

That is why I don't believe on RD saying that all drivers are treated equally. It is clear LH is using data from FA.

If they want a fair fight, give them exactly the same car and leave them with their respective mechanics the responsability of setting the car and we shall see who is right.

I have to disagree here: they're in the same team !
Hamilton should of course be able to use data from FA, and viceversa !

Alonso should use Hamilton's data to learn how to adapt to the McLaren faster :D

[Kevincal]

Taking a tow from other driver is extremely chicken'ish behavior. Alonso should pass on his own speed if he has balls. This is aero-robbery!! I am glad he did not succeed.

Here's the thing. Right after coming out of the corner onto the straight, Hamilton should have taken the inside line. But instead, Hamilton held the middle while Alonso went inside shortly after getting in Lewis' slipstream. Then Lewis hogs up the whole inside of the track... mirror racing... The thing is, they are teamates, if Hamilton had any respect for Alonso, he would have held his line and tried to out-brake Alonso at turn 1 like a real man. ;) Especially since Lewis just won the week before... Lewis has it in his mind that somehow he deserves the same respect as Alonso, who has put in his dues since 2001, and won 2 WDC's with a car that was not even the best on the grid... But obviously Lewis has his mind set to win the WDC at any costs... :)

[F1MAN2007]

I have to disagree here: they're in the same team !
Hamilton should of course be able to use data from FA, and viceversa !

Alonso should use Hamilton's data to learn how to adapt to the McLaren faster :D

Then he is no longer a rockie?!! :D

What would you expect from a rockie?!!! LOL

If you have time read this :

"Since he is new in the category and he doesn't know the tracks, on Fridays he gets all the data from my car and my laps so he knows the circuit better and knows where the time is found."

Source : http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59968

http://www.autosport.com/images/space.gif

[F1MAN2007]

Here's the thing. Right after coming out of the corner onto the straight, Hamilton should have taken the inside line. But instead, Hamilton held the middle while Alonso went inside shortly after getting in Lewis' slipstream. Then Lewis hogs up the whole inside of the track... mirror racing... The thing is, they are teamates, if Hamilton had any respect for Alonso, he would have held his line and tried to out-brake Alonso at turn 1 like a real man. ;) Especially since Lewis just won the week before... Lewis has it in his mind that somehow he deserves the same respect as Alonso, who has put in his dues since 2001, and won 2 WDC's with a car that was not even the best on the grid... But obviously Lewis has his mind set to win the WDC at any costs... :)

Thank you Sir :wave:

[kalasend]

Here's the thing. Right after coming out of the corner onto the straight, Hamilton should have taken the inside line. But instead, Hamilton held the middle while Alonso went inside shortly after getting in Lewis' slipstream. Then Lewis hogs up the whole inside of the track... mirror racing... The thing is, they are teamates, if Hamilton had any respect for Alonso, he would have held his line and tried to out-brake Alonso at turn 1 like a real man. ;) Especially since Lewis just won the week before... Lewis has it in his mind that somehow he deserves the same respect as Alonso, who has put in his dues since 2001, and won 2 WDC's with a car that was not even the best on the grid... But obviously Lewis has his mind set to win the WDC at any costs... :)

Alonso is a scumbag for taking advantage of the aero vacuum created by Hamilton in the first place. This is pure robbery. He was not that much faster than Hamilton if there isn't a towing effect. That is so unsportsmanship from a 2x WDC. Thumbs down on Alonso.

[Zico]

Here's the thing. Right after coming out of the corner onto the straight, Hamilton should have taken the inside line. But instead, Hamilton held the middle while Alonso went inside shortly after getting in Lewis' slipstream. Then Lewis hogs up the whole inside of the track... mirror racing... The thing is, they are teamates, if Hamilton had any respect for Alonso, he would have held his line and tried to out-brake Alonso at turn 1 like a real man. ;) Especially since Lewis just won the week before... Lewis has it in his mind that somehow he deserves the same respect as Alonso, who has put in his dues since 2001, and won 2 WDC's with a car that was not even the best on the grid... But obviously Lewis has his mind set to win the WDC at any costs... :)

Yes.. any cost within the rules... I'll refer you back to Valve bounce on the subject "Hamilton was not blocking - he was defending his position. Maybe you should check the rules on swerving and blocking before you make yourself look even sillier than you already do."

He didnt break any rules... Even FA hasnt complained about being blocked. You're begining to sound like a broken record dude.

[Kevincal]

Anyways...I have a headache, should I just give up and devote myself to the church of Lewis Hamilton like most of the rest of ya!? ;)

[Kevincal]

Lewis didn't break any "WRITTEN" rules...but I guarantee you, if you asked actual F1 drivers and not blind Lewis devotees....Probably all of the drivers would say it was a block and that it's looked down upon among the drivers. Hence why an ACTUAL FORMER F1 driver...Derek Daly, called out Lewis for blocking...

[Kevincal]

Anyways, like you said, I sound like a broken record, so I'm done with the whole LH FA argument!

[Rollo]

Alonso is a scumbag for taking advantage of the aero vacuum created by Hamilton in the first place. This is pure robbery. He was not that much faster than Hamilton if there isn't a towing effect. That is so unsportsmanship from a 2x WDC. Thumbs down on Alonso.

Since when is drafting illegal? After watching motor racing for nigh on 20 years I thought that it was an advisable technique.

Alonso himself has already been found guilty and penalised for "blocking" previously.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/54397

I think that the biggest problem is that Alonso has a number 1 painted on the front of his car and his teammate is not only prepared to race him but is actually better.
It's funny how quickly Alonso has forgotten that Hamilton gave him victory at Monaco on a platter but somehow doesn't grasp the concept that his teammate was told to hold off and when in a similar situation can't sit behind and accumulate points.

Is it a case that now that Schumacher has gone that Alonso's ego has expanded to fill the gap?

[kalasend]

Since when is drafting illegal? After watching motor racing for nigh on 20 years I thought that it was an advisable technique.

Alonso himself has already been found guilty and penalised for "blocking" previously.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/54397

I think that the biggest problem is that Alonso has a number 1 painted on the front of his car and his teammate is not only prepared to race him but is actually better.
It's funny how quickly Alonso has forgotten that Hamilton gave him victory at Monaco on a platter but somehow doesn't grasp the concept that his teammate was told to hold off and when in a similar situation can't sit behind and accumulate points.

Is it a case that now that Schumacher has gone that Alonso's ego has expanded to fill the gap?

Couldn't you see I was being sarcastic to Kevincal?

Anyways, I don't see any problem with Alonso/Hamilton's fight. If that was a problem, then there are a whole lot of other passings that become illegal.

[Valve Bounce]

Anyways, like you said, I sound like a broken record, .............................

You got that right!! :rolleyes:

[K-Pu]

The funniest thing about this is what spanish press says about it.

Every day we get a new report that says something like...

"Alonso IS going to Ferrari"
"Alonso dislikes his team"
"Alonso is the best and Hamilton sucks"

And that isn´t very good, at least in my opinion. Press should check what they say, but they´ll find it quite difficult because they´re poised to sell as many Marcas, Ases and so on. It happens in Spain and everywhere, and the only thing you get with it it´s a lot of people being misleaded. I hate when someone comes and shoults (not tells):

Alonso is a mothe****er, I can´t stand him! He is too cocky and he deserves to be beaten by a rookie! Alonso is the worst because I say it!

Or...

Hamilton is a spoilt baby! He´s stealing info from Alonso, and in McLaren there are bad people who try to harm Alonso! Alonso is the best because I say it!

I think things are simple enough to be understood, but hard enough to keep this issue unchanged for a long time. Alonso and Hamilton have the best cars on the grid, and they´re leading the championship. But in the last 2 races Hamilton has beaten Alonso. He hasn´t made mistekes (as Alonso did in Canada) and he deserved these wins. No doubt about it. And Alonso has won 2 races too, he´s 2 times WDC and has won more races than anyone on the grid. And these two are teammates and are fighting for the WDC.

So what´s wrong with them trying to overtake each other? Let them do that, but please, tell Alonso not to whine all day long! We´re tired of that...

And there´s one point people repeat again and again in Spain... Hamilton hasn´t overtook anyone yet. Is that a reason to consider him a mediocre driver?

[Chaparral66]

Seems to me if Alonso is uncomfortable at McLaren, you have to question why he decided to move on from Renault in the first place. Nobody pointed a gun to his head to go to McLaren, it was his choice.

[Valve Bounce]

Seems to me if Alonso is uncomfortable at McLaren, you have to question why he decided to move on from Renault in the first place. Nobody pointed a gun to his head to go to McLaren, it was his choice.


I do remembr it was quite sudden and it took everyone by surprise why he should leave a winning team with a reliable car for the brittle McLaren. I'd love to hear Flav's take on all this.

[wmcot]

I do remembr it was quite sudden and it took everyone by surprise why he should leave a winning team with a reliable car for the brittle McLaren. I'd love to hear Flav's take on all this.

He probably phones Ron at least once a day and says something like, "I told you so!"

I'm surprised that there is such an awakening to the fact that Hamilton "wants to win." All F1 drivers (OK the top ones, not the pensioners or pay drivers) want to WIN. Hamilton wants to win, Alonso wants to win, Kimi wants to win, Massa wants to win, Heidfeld wants to win, Button REALLY wants to win...

[ArrowsFA1]

It is clear LH is using data from FA.
It is also clear that FA has access to LH's data. That's McLaren treating their drivers equally.

If they want a fair fight, give them exactly the same car and leave them with their respective mechanics the responsability of setting the car and we shall see who is right.
Doing that leads to a divided team which is secretive and uncooperative, and one which can lose championships as a result. Just look at Mansell & Piquet at Williams.

It's a balancing act for Ron Dennis, and the kind of situation that could blow up in his face because he his dealing with highly competitive people, but credit to him for it.

[F1MAN2007]

I think that Alonso made a best choice the time he was leaving his former team. It is clear we know where allthose 2 teams are standing now.

Renault down (3rd or 4th) and Maca up (1st) on the grid. Best choice, isn't?

What he has to deal now is his approach and focus on his season rather than point out what is not going at this time because he has to deal with this at least for this season.

For me, I will replay to all those speculations by acts.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ron spells out the reality of dealing with the media:


"I haven't experienced what we are trying to handle at the moment. I believe in thinking these things through, trying to grapple with what the issues are. When I look back on the (Alain) Prost and (Ayrton) Senna era, which was very difficult to manage, the biggest change from there to now is the Internet.
"The process I see is that very often the first person who interviews a driver, especially if it is a motorsport journalist, accurately uses the quote. Then it goes to the second person, very often with translation in-between, sometimes English to Spanish and sometimes the other way around.
"And it is at that point that the sound bite is carved out of the quote, used as the headline, very often on the Internet site, and that is it. That starts the whole thing, and then actually the stories get constructed under the headline.
"So what you are dealing with is not something that is factually correct and therefore a real problem between the drivers. You are dealing with an emotional reaction.
"We talked extensively about it yesterday, and really the consequences just make it more and more difficult to be what we want to be, and that is totally open and cooperative with the media.
"And now we have to have a situation where the drivers - who are not controlled by us; we function as a team - have to be aware of the fact that it doesn't matter how innocent or well structured an answer is in respect of a question about their teammate, one in ten will be spun.
"So they will be more controlled and mindful of anything they say about each other, and they have agreed independent of us that they will only talk about each other in each other's presence. Because then there is no misconception or no misunderstanding.
"The analysis of everything that causes spin does not bear out spin. It just doesn't. We live in a world of spin; we know we have a very acute awareness of the things that are going to come down the road at us. Some sooner than later, and we are handling them as and when they come.
"One thing that is particularly uncomfortable is that the second line of time-consuming action is when the other team principals see it as an opportunity to try and spring one of the drivers out of the system, and then start to feed the media with constructive counter-espionage type statements. Then that gives you even more aggravation.
"We accept it, understand it, but we are just desperately trying to be correct. And we are very aware of course that the vast majority of you guys, not all, are absolutely trying to work with us.
"The problem is, as many of you know, that many of the stories get written by people that don't even come to Grands Prix. It is a difficult thing to manage."
http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/59980

[ioan]

Ron spells out the reality of dealing with the media:


http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/59980

Ron rarely dais the truth, at least in the last 17 years that I followed F1.
He does the exact same thing as the press he is blaming, he only tells us the part of the truth that he wants us to hear.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ron rarely dais the truth, at least in the last 17 years that I followed F1.
He does the exact same thing as the press he is blaming, he only tells us the part of the truth that he wants us to hear.
So, in your view, what is true and what is not in what he is saying?

[ioan]

So, in your view, what is true and what is not in what he is saying?

What about this part:

"So what you are dealing with is not something that is factually correct and therefore a real problem between the drivers."

There is no real problem between the drivers?!

As for the translation bullsh!t, give me a break, every day so many news are translated from one language to another and I doubt that the core of the subject is ever lost in translation.

[Flat.tyres]

its naieve to think that anyone in F1 will blurt out all their privilidged information. Ron is no different to anyone else in F1 or any other business / sport. Looking at what he has said, I agree with him that any comments are spun out of control and their reaction is a sensible one.

Can we also clear up the data stupidity.

the team is Mercedes McLaren. you have data being analysed by mechanics, engineers, areo experts, tyre representitives etc. All the data is interpereted and decisions made accordingly.

Both sets or mechanics will look at areas where they are fast, slow, not getting the optimum out of the car, eating the tyres etc. This is done in conjunction with team and partner experts taking this into account their individual drivers driving style to set up the car for optimum speed, reliability and overall race pace / performance.

the idea of Lewis or Fred wandering off with a floppy disk of telementary and refusing to share it with the team is frankly laughable.

Mclaren arent too worried though. If they deny there is a rift, people accuse them of lying and if they don't comment, they use this as proof. All the time, the world media is focused purely on McLaren, Mercedes, Santander, Vodafone, diageo, SAP etc, etc. Everyone in woking will be rubbing their hands with glee because the funds for next year are growing by the second. This tidal wave of interest will provide the sort of development funds that could see McLaren ride the crest for the next 5 years. keep up the theories chaps :D

[ArrowsFA1]

What about this part:

"So what you are dealing with is not something that is factually correct and therefore a real problem between the drivers."

There is no real problem between the drivers?!
You've illustrated RD's point perfectly. The quote you've used is part of RD explaining how comments can be misrepresented the more they are repeated with different empasis, or are taken out of context. This can cause a problem between drivers when they are asked to comment on a version of the original comment :crazy: As a result Alonso & Hamilton have apparently agreed that they will only talk about each other in each other's presence.

With respect ioan, your "agenda", like that of the media, appears to be to look for problems between the McLaren drivers. I don't for a moment pretend that there aren't tensions - there are bound to be in such a competitive environment - but whatever competitive tensions exist are being magnified to create headlines, and those headlines frequently do not reflect the reality.

That's the media for you, and in one respect as Flat.tyres says "everyone in woking will be rubbing their hands with glee" at the level of interest.

...so many news are translated from one language to another and I doubt that the core of the subject is ever lost in translation.
Ever. Really? And the core is not the whole.

[ioan]

With respect ioan, your "agenda", like that of the media, appears to be to look for problems between the McLaren drivers.

You don't have to look for the problems, the drivers themselves said there are problems there. They did backtrack then under Ron's pressure but they said it in first place.

You behave like if you would be payed to cover McLaren's back in this forum, or maybe you're Ron's relative or something.

I'll wait and see what happens later in the season when one of them won't have chances to win the WDC, it should nice fireworks, or should a I call it a volcano eruption? :D

[Valve Bounce]

I still remember the period of the 1972 elections when it was illegal to demonstrate in the streets in Australia against the War in Vietnam.
During a televised interview one of the candidates in the march, Dr Jim Cairns, was asked if he thought it was right for him to be in the march, and Dr Cairns replied:If I didn't think it was right, I wouldn't be here".

The next morning, the front page headlines was: Dr Jim Cairns thinks it is right to break the law.

I've never forgotten this.

[Garry Walker]

During a televised interview one of the candidates in the march, Dr Jim Cairns, was asked if he thought it was right for him to be in the march, and Dr Cairns replied:If I didn't think it was right, I wouldn't be here".

The next morning, the front page headlines was: Dr Jim Cairns thinks it is right to break the law.

:rotflmao: Thats too funny.

[leopard]

You must have got good mark on the subject of History :up: :D

[ArrowsFA1]

You don't have to look for the problems, the drivers themselves said there are problems there. They did backtrack then under Ron's pressure but they said it in first place.
Firstly, where exactly have Hamilton and Alonso said there are problems in the team? There have certainly been stories in the media to that effect and Alonso certainly said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59768) he was "not totally comfortable", but any "problems" seem to be a natural result of having two highly competitive drivers in the one team.

Secondly, it is your view that they "backtracked" under pressure from RD and you always back up your opinions so...can you back that one up? ;)

You behave like if you would be payed to cover McLaren's back in this forum, or maybe you're Ron's relative or something.
I admire what RD has achieved for McLaren and the way he is running his team. He has first-hand experience of dealing with the ever increasing demands of the media, and what happens if you don't meet those demands, and is getting undeserved criticism, both personally and on behalf of the team & drivers, as a result.

If someone wants to pay me for having that opinion then they'd be very welcome to do so :s mokin:

[ioan]

Firstly, where exactly have Hamilton and Alonso said there are problems in the team?

Did you see the Monaco GP race conference? Something about no.2 on the car and so on! :p :
It was straight out of the horse's mouth, nothing lost in translation there because it was in English! :D

Than it was Alonso's turn to complain to his own press, who surelly understands Spanish for a change.

You might choose to ignore it, but I won't.


If someone wants to pay me for having that opinion then they'd be very welcome to do so :s mokin:

Well they really should cause you try really hard. ;)

[race aficionado]

OK, i'm posting this twice - I posted it in another thread where I thought this topic was happening but it looks like it has spread like wild fire . . . .

Here is a link where FA sounds ready to carry on and continue with a fight he believes he can win.

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=472901&CPID=583&clid=3715&lid=2579&title=Alonso+happy+at+McLaren+



"We are better than two weeks ago," said Alonso. "We are showing a great reliability, the cars are fast and both drivers can fight for victory or the podium.

"Now my world championship really begins," he said.

"France, Great Britain, Germany and Hungary are races that I like and that I have won at some point. I am confident that things will once again go well for me. I feel more comfortable in the car and everything is going better."

Alonso admits he is not upset that McLaren give Hamilton all of his telemetry.

"Hamilton gets my data but I also get his data," he said. "However, the one that gets the car ready on a Friday is me."

[ArrowsFA1]

Did you see the Monaco GP race conference? Something about no.2 on the car and so on!
I assume you mean this:


Q. (Kevin Garside – The Daily Telegraph) Lewis, for the first time this season you looked disappointed with second place today. It seems the pattern developing is that you are always heavier in the third qualifying session which gives the world champion, Fernando, the best shot at pole. Is this hampering you? Do you feel frustrated?
LH: At the end of the day, I am a rookie. I am in my first season in Formula One and I have finished second in only my first Monaco Grand Prix so I really can't complain, but to see that I am of a similar pace to Fernando is a positive for me. But it is something I have to live with. I've got number two on my car. I am the number two driver.
Where's the problem? He does have #2 on his car :p :

Than it was Alonso's turn to complain to his own press, who surelly understands Spanish for a change.
This?:


"Well, right from the start I've never felt totally comfortable," Alonso told his country's Cadena Ser in a radio interview on Monday night.
"I have a British teammate in a British team, and he's doing a great job and we know that all the support and help is going to him and I understood that from the beginning.
"But I'm not complaining. I've won two races out of six and I've finished on the podium four times and I have those 40 points that will allow me to fight for the title in the end,"

First Hamilton says Alonso's being favoured when Alonso wins in Monaco, then Alonso says Hamilton's being favoured when Hamilton wins in Canada. Clearly McLaren are being very even-handed :s mokin: :p :

[Firstgear]

They're favouring TWO of their drivers, that makes them TWO times as bad as Ferrari.

[Flat.tyres]

They're favouring TWO of their drivers, that makes them TWO times as bad as Ferrari.

:laugh:

[ioan]

I assume you mean this:
[quote]Q. (Kevin Garside – The Daily Telegraph) Lewis, for the first time this season you looked disappointed with second place today. It seems the pattern developing is that you are always heavier in the third qualifying session which gives the world champion, Fernando, the best shot at pole. Is this hampering you? Do you feel frustrated?
LH: At the end of the day, I am a rookie. I am in my first season in Formula One and I have finished second in only my first Monaco Grand Prix so I really can't complain, but to see that I am of a similar pace to Fernando is a positive for me. But it is something I have to live with. I've got number two on my car. I am the number two driver.

Where's the problem? He does have #2 on his car :p :

This?:

"Well, right from the start I've never felt totally comfortable," Alonso told his country's Cadena Ser in a radio interview on Monday night.
"I have a British teammate in a British team, and he's doing a great job and we know that all the support and help is going to him and I understood that from the beginning.
"But I'm not complaining. I've won two races out of six and I've finished on the podium four times and I have those 40 points that will allow me to fight for the title in the end,"

First Hamilton says Alonso's being favoured when Alonso wins in Monaco, then Alonso says Hamilton's being favoured when Hamilton wins in Canada. Clearly McLaren are being very even-handed :s mokin: :p :[/quote:1qg0pxb2]

So there are "no problems" within the team, as you were saying?! :D

BTW thanks for searching for the quotes, I was not in the mood for doing it myself! :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

So there are "no problems" within the team, as you were saying?! :D
Perfectly normal competitive tensions between two very competitive drivers which are being managed very well by the team, and enjoyed by us on track :cool:

[ioan]

Perfectly normal competitive tensions between two very competitive drivers which are being managed very well by the team, and enjoyed by us on track :cool:

You can call them as you wish, I call them trouble! :cool:

[vegasmike433]

I think the guy needs a break. He's been under too much pressure over the years. He was dubbed the next big thing and he certainly lived up to the expectations. He duly took his first pole and win in '03 and then his first title in '05 when the car was good enough. In '06 he was under even more pressure to show his title was no fluke and face the challenge of Ferrari and MS, which he did brilliantly. After so many achievements ideally, he'd need an "off" year but yet again he's in the pressure zone with a new team and a new challenge and a teammate like no other teammate. Now what do you do? Kimi would relax by getting drunk, Jacques would dye his hair, Eddie would boot his girlfriend and find a new one. Fernando is different. He's seen very little life outside of racing. His idea of letting his emotions out is bitching to the racing press. Let's remember, he was complaining about his team and teammate in the heat of the title fight last year. So I tell you, give him a break and let him relax and chill out. He'll be okay.

Rudy,

You have raised a valid point here in regards to the individual, separate and apart from the "professional driver". Fernando Alonso has produced remarkable, outstanding, and very hard fought results over the last two years.

These accomplishments are not without physical, emotional,and psychological costs. Let us also remember that Fernando is still very young, although he has manifested extreme maturity in most areas where his Formula One carreer is concerned.

Finally, the press loves to stir this controversy, and I am sure that within the team itself there is a much firmer grip on all of the above concerns than it would appear from the version we are fed from the "Fleet St. hacks"

Good Luck to both McLaren drivers for a safe and successful 2007 Grand Prix season. Up till now they are looking better than anyone has in recent memory.

Michael P. Whelan

Las Vegas, Nevada

[Big Ben]

You don't have to look for the problems, the drivers themselves said there are problems there. They did backtrack then under Ron's pressure but they said it in first place.

You behave like if you would be payed to cover McLaren's back in this forum, or maybe you're Ron's relative or something.

I'll wait and see what happens later in the season when one of them won't have chances to win the WDC, it should nice fireworks, or should a I call it a volcano eruption? :D

My personal wish: I hope we will discuss the same situation for the next 10 years at least.....

Isn´t it interesting how so many MS´ fans are now LH´s fans... They seem to despise every driver that ever won against MS... and it seems their hatred never goes away.... it never heals... so much passion... :laugh:

It's strange to observe the similarity between humans and ships... We have seen LH in 7 races and many have no doubts he´s better than anything else seen so far on earth... But this is not something unique... It happens all the time... and quite often they are dead wrong... Like when Newey and some others left McLaren everybody was sure that the team was doomed.... or like when so many said FA made the most stupid move when he signed with McLaren.... :laugh:

I think people should leave room in their statements for further updates ... we haven´t collected enough data for most of the replies posted so far

One thing about who´s the better than who.... Who was better Prost or Senna? they both won against each other?

How can one say LH was so much faster than FA in US? I saw Alonso starting and finishing the race in Hamilton´s a$$.... This means he wasn´t fast enough to overtake him on track....

[Chaparral66]

Quote:
"I haven't experienced what we are trying to handle at the moment. I believe in thinking these things through, trying to grapple with what the issues are. When I look back on the (Alain) Prost and (Ayrton) Senna era, which was very difficult to manage, the biggest change from there to now is the Internet.
"The process I see is that very often the first person who interviews a driver, especially if it is a motorsport journalist, accurately uses the quote. Then it goes to the second person, very often with translation in-between, sometimes English to Spanish and sometimes the other way around.
"And it is at that point that the sound bite is carved out of the quote, used as the headline, very often on the Internet site, and that is it. That starts the whole thing, and then actually the stories get constructed under the headline.
"So what you are dealing with is not something that is factually correct and therefore a real problem between the drivers. You are dealing with an emotional reaction.
"We talked extensively about it yesterday, and really the consequences just make it more and more difficult to be what we want to be, and that is totally open and cooperative with the media.
"And now we have to have a situation where the drivers - who are not controlled by us; we function as a team - have to be aware of the fact that it doesn't matter how innocent or well structured an answer is in respect of a question about their teammate, one in ten will be spun.
"So they will be more controlled and mindful of anything they say about each other, and they have agreed independent of us that they will only talk about each other in each other's presence. Because then there is no misconception or no misunderstanding.
"The analysis of everything that causes spin does not bear out spin. It just doesn't. We live in a world of spin; we know we have a very acute awareness of the things that are going to come down the road at us. Some sooner than later, and we are handling them as and when they come.
"One thing that is particularly uncomfortable is that the second line of time-consuming action is when the other team principals see it as an opportunity to try and spring one of the drivers out of the system, and then start to feed the media with constructive counter-espionage type statements. Then that gives you even more aggravation.
"We accept it, understand it, but we are just desperately trying to be correct. And we are very aware of course that the vast majority of you guys, not all, are absolutely trying to work with us.
"The problem is, as many of you know, that many of the stories get written by people that don't even come to Grands Prix. It is a difficult thing to manage."
Ron Dennis, McLaren


It's hard to argue with much of the logic in what Dennis is saying. It's easy to sit in our collective easy chairs and lecture about what Alonso and Hamilton should be doing, and how Dennis should manage it. But try to imagine standing in his shoes. He's got two highly motivated drivers who both are exceptionately skilled and talented driving his equipment, which looks like the best in F1 this year. Alonso dethrowned Michael Schumacher and Hamilton has won in every level of racing in which he has competed. Most race team owners would give their 3rd from bottom vertebrae to have this issue. If Alonso and Hamilton have agreed to talk about the other only in each other's presence, that's a smart move and good luck with that. I'd just like to see them settle whatever differences they do have out on the racetrack instead of in the media. After reading this quote, I'm a lot more confident that Ron Dennis is handling his drivers efficiently.