Ferrari, take your heads out of your ...

[ioan]

No more MS to produce miracle lap times, no more RB for magical strategy under stupid SC rules and what we get?

The best prospect gets black flagged (he should also know that you aren't allowed pass on red light) and the second one is lucky that Sato didn't have a few more laps at disposal to go around him.

[N. Jones]

I am totally confused as to what is happening at Ferrari - and I am not a Ferrari fan! These races in North America are usually where they either pull away from the competition or jump back into contention as others are falling away. To have this kind of day after what I thought was a one-off at Monaco does not bode well for Indy. If we see a repeat - even if Massa finishes on the podium - we may be looking at Mclaren running away with both championships by the time we get back to Asia!

[Daika]

I was under the impression that they did fine untill the numerous SC. At least Massa was leading at 1 point (i think). Kimi was the big let down for me, he is really going down hill.

[kalasend]

Me think there is only one reason for Ferrari's result today: Brawn

[rlfh]

Actually, I think Massa was very unlucky with the SC, opposite to LH who was extremely lucky to have stopped 2 or 3 laps before.

[Hoss Ghoul]

Ferrari has been dominant at Indianapolis, if they don't perform there then they have serious problems.

[RaikkonenRules]

Ferrari's problem is that they simply just cannot overtake. Even Raikkonen cannot pass in that car.

Interesting that as soon as Raikkonen joins Ferrari they go bad and as soon as Alonso joins McLaren that start to do well. Sums up the luck they have in their careers really.

[Viktory]

Agree with the topic title...

And, the Ferrari can't pass another vehicle if their lives depended on it! THey can't even get close to a car in front of them!

[fizzicist]

Ferrari has been dominant at Indianapolis, if they don't perform there then they have serious problems.

Yeah, they stuffed Jordan and Minardi good and proper ;)

Canada looked like everyone took a step forwards except Ferrari. Okay, Lewis was a tad fortunate pitting 2 laps before the safety car, but he had a second a lap over everyone anyway. Massa only has himself to blame for the black flag and Kimi will come good later. I think he's struggling with Bridgestones to be honest.

[stevewf1]

They seem to be lacking Schumacher and Brawns leadership. When things start to go wrong they seem to panic. Massa's pitlane error was amateurish (didn't he see what happened to Montoya a couple of years ago?), and Kimi was yet again average at best. What odds on a dramatic return to Ferrari by Schumacher and Brawn next season?

[Eki]

Interesting that as soon as Raikkonen joins Ferrari they go bad and as soon as Alonso joins McLaren that start to do well. Sums up the luck they have in their careers really.
Or that Alonso is good at setting up and developing the car, while he doesn't match Hamilton as a driver at this moment, and that Kimi isn't as good at setting up and developing the car as MS was.

[Ian McC]

Actually, I think Massa was very unlucky with the SC, opposite to LH who was extremely lucky to have stopped 2 or 3 laps before.


Had Massa 'seen the light' things may have been better for him ;)

[donKey jote]

:laugh:

[jas123f1]

It’s funny? has every one forget all difficulties which Ferrari had during last 2 years?

People are speaking like Ferrari still should be a champion team. It’s not Ferrari or Schumi but it’s Alonso and Renault.

AND - It is really that bad?

Ferrari has won 3 of 6 races until now and has 3 more podium places (3, 3, 3).

2006
After 6 races had Ferrari won 2 race and 3 more podium places (2, 2, 3)

2005
After 6 races Ferrari had no (0) wins and only one podium place (2)

A Ferrari driver was after 6 races out of points
2005 7 times,
2006 3 times and
2007 2 times (when Kimis car had the electrical problem and now today Massa was driving against red light..

That’s racing it’s going up and down .. I’m sure Ferrari will be back sooner or later..
I think McLaren has succeeded in their work and has two good drivers – so why don’t to congratulate them. That doesn’t mean that Ferrari are not getting better and everything can be different all ready in USA.

[ioan]

It’s funny? has every one forget all difficulties which Ferrari had during last 2 years?

Last year at this time they were getting better and better, so I don't see your point.


That doesn’t mean that Ferrari are not getting better and everything can be different all ready in USA.

Given the way they doing lately I doubt it.

[ioan]

Or that Alonso is good at setting up and developing the car, while he doesn't match Hamilton as a driver at this moment, and that Kimi isn't as good at setting up and developing the car as MS was.

I don't know about Alonso but agree about Kimi vs MS.

[ioan]

And, the Ferrari can't pass another vehicle if their lives depended on it! THey can't even get close to a car in front of them!

That's exactly what I think too.
Remember Oz? Felipe couldn't pass those bloody slow Hondas.
And than either him nor Kimi were able to do the trick on any car that was under their nose.

They designed the car to run fast in clean air, very nice and good, but than make it fast enough to qualify on the front row!

[f1rocks]

That's exactly what I think too.
Remember Oz? Felipe couldn't pass those bloody slow Hondas.
And than either him nor Kimi were able to do the trick on any car that was under their nose.

They designed the car to run fast in clean air, very nice and good, but than make it fast enough to qualify on the front row!

Lets not forget the fundamental fact that the Ferrari drivers are not that great at passing people. I dont know who Kimi has passed this year at all. He just falls asleep. Whereas Massa was happily doing 1min 19's behind Webber for about 15 laps. He is not that great an overtaker also.

I must say I had higher expectations from Kimi and he has been a complete let down so far. Hope Luca M is happy now. This is what happens when the drivers are nothing extraordinary.

Or is he wondering to make the call to a 7 time World Champ in order to take the fight to the Macs and help win the WCC.

Lastly Hamilton has been all class putting the 2 time lucky WDC to shame and causing him to drive like a rookie today....Alonso needs all the help with team orders possible to take the fight to Lewis now..

[leopard]

Or that Alonso is good at setting up and developing the car, while he doesn't match Hamilton as a driver at this moment
Is this too early that no driver can match Hamilton as a driver at this moment?

[leopard]

Canada gp is one of technical race, where cars have better package drivers gain weigher opportunity on winning. Ferrari isn't in place can maximize their power at such track like that, Let's wait until they find speed race.

[wmcot]

I think Ferrari need better race management. Wasn't anybody watching as Massa left the pits while the light was red? A driver needs help to see such things when his attention is on so many other things all at once! There is really something missing from the entire Ferrari organization this season! No body is catching the small details that can cost races.

[Valve Bounce]

Ferrari has been dominant at Indianapolis, if they don't perform there then they have serious problems.

I don't think the other cars are going to pull out at Injunapolis this year :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I think Ferrari need better race management. Wasn't anybody watching as Massa left the pits while the light was red? A driver needs help to see such things when his attention is on so many other things all at once! There is really something missing from the entire Ferrari organization this season! No body is catching the small details that can cost races.

Actually, SchM was in the pits watching. :eek:

[wmcot]

Actually, SchM was in the pits watching. :eek:

Yeah, but I don't think that's the same as having someone assigned to each car specifically to keep drivers from making dumb mistakes.

[Valve Bounce]

Yeah, but I don't think that's the same as having someone assigned to each car specifically to keep drivers from making dumb mistakes.

I just wonder if SchM is putting the hoodoos on this team. Since he decided to take part in the pits "team", Ferrari havn't really done all that well.

[wmcot]

Actually, SchM was in the pits watching. :eek:

Even NASCAR has "spotters" for each driver!

[Valve Bounce]

How many NASCAR spotters does it take to spot a red light at the exit to the pitlane? :D

By the way, did anyone notice that Martin was saying that Taku was actually lapping faster than Kimi near the end of the race? :p :

[wmcot]

How many NASCAR spotters does it take to spot a red light at the exit to the pitlane? :D

There should be a good punchline to that one!!! :)

[Hoss Ghoul]

There should be a good punchline to that one!!! :)

The NASCAR rip/joke on F1 would be how many crew members does it take to pit an F1 car... ;)

[Dzeidzei]

I don't think the other cars are going to pull out at Injunapolis this year :p :

Well, if they do pull out because of tyres, it´ll be a boring race. Almost as boring as Monaco :)

[F1MAN2007]

I think Ferrari need better race management. Wasn't anybody watching as Massa left the pits while the light was red? A driver needs help to see such things when his attention is on so many other things all at once! There is really something missing from the entire Ferrari organization this season! No body is catching the small details that can cost races.


I think Ferrari is missing the key element in strategy : Ross Brawn (hope the spelling is correct). He is the only one who can turn things now before it is too late.

I can't blame Massa coz yesterday all the monkeys (according to Lewis) were in trouble with so much things which was going on and missing the red light was normal in that time coz youy can't control everything perfectly when you are under pressure.

Urgently Ferrari need to call back RB whatever the price they gonna pay for this. If they are underperformance again in USA and Mclaren take an advantage, then things will be going wrong.

Not being a fan of MS, but he is the best than Kimmi right now even if he may not been training physically since he left.

[N. Jones]

It’s funny? has every one forget all difficulties which Ferrari had during last 2 years?

People are speaking like Ferrari still should be a champion team. It’s not Ferrari or Schumi but it’s Alonso and Renault.

AND - It is really that bad?

Ferrari has won 3 of 6 races until now and has 3 more podium places (3, 3, 3).

2006
After 6 races had Ferrari won 2 race and 3 more podium places (2, 2, 3)

2005
After 6 races Ferrari had no (0) wins and only one podium place (2)

A Ferrari driver was after 6 races out of points
2005 7 times,
2006 3 times and
2007 2 times (when Kimis car had the electrical problem and now today Massa was driving against red light..

That’s racing it’s going up and down .. I’m sure Ferrari will be back sooner or later..
I think McLaren has succeeded in their work and has two good drivers – so why don’t to congratulate them. That doesn’t mean that Ferrari are not getting better and everything can be different all ready in USA.

Reading this post again I am in total agreement. Life runs in cycles and we look to be in the time where Ferrari struggles. It always looks bad when anything at the top of its game slowly starts to fall from grace. Long-time fans of Ferrari can only hope that they turn it around soon...

[ioan]

They had the best car at the start of the season, even Super Aguri is developing their cars faster than Ferrari at the moment. This is unbelievable.

[Mickey T]

Not so unbelievable.

this is about the timing i was told to expect by ferrari insiders for the time lost in the wind-tunnel failure to take effect on-track.

the only thing i'm finding difficult to comprehend is kimi's lack of performance (though, to be fair, Taku also caught and passed Alonso, so he drove an inspired race)

[ioan]

Not so unbelievable.

this is about the timing i was told to expect by ferrari insiders for the time lost in the wind-tunnel failure to take effect on-track.

How long was that wind tunnel off? You would expect them to react pretty fast given all the money they have at disposal.

Also they don't have only 1 wind tunnel.


the only thing i'm finding difficult to comprehend is kimi's lack of performance (though, to be fair, Taku also caught and passed Alonso, so he drove an inspired race)

The problem with Kimi is that his car needs a built in alarm to keep him awake.

[schmenke]

Ferrari is lacking Ross Brawn, and...
Kimi is lacking an exclusive tyre development partnership with Bridgestone.

[Donney]

I'm surprised about Raikonnen, but I'm sure Ferrari will bounce back, they are not impressive at the moment and that makes the last two races.

I guess they haven't found a great leader after Schumacher.

[janneppi]

The problem with Kimi is that his car needs a built in alarm to keep him awake.

Or brakes that wont fail after twenty laps. ;)

[F1MAN2007]

The problem with Kimi is that his car needs a built in alarm to keep him awake.


:laugh: :laugh: :bounce:

[jens]

The recent stuff makes me wonder whether Ferrari will drop back to pre-Schumacher era? Then they were struggling for many years and were really happy to score one win per season. Will this be the scenario for next years or is it too early to talk about such things?

[Ninse]

Me think there is only one reason for Ferrari's result today: Brawn

This reflect perfectly my opinion!!!!

Regards,

Diego

[ioan]

Or brakes that wont fail after twenty laps. ;)

Incredibly it seems that everything brakes only in his car.
A bizarre coincidence with what was happening at McLaren for a few seasons. :p :

[ioan]

The recent stuff makes me wonder whether Ferrari will drop back to pre-Schumacher era? Then they were struggling for many years and were really happy to score one win per season. Will this be the scenario for next years or is it too early to talk about such things?

This will change the moment Ross Brawn comes back and sends them all back to work. They seem to be half asleep all the time, excepting Felipe who is only catching it now ( not seeing a red light! ).

[gm99]

Personally, I don't share the opinion that Brawn is the guru to cure all of Ferrari's problems instantly. People tend to forget that the Scuderia has had far less successful seasons than this (2005 for instance, when they would probably not have won a single race had it not been for Indygate) when Brawn (and Schuey, for that matter) were still around. After all, they did win three GPs already this season, same number as McLaren in fact, and I am sure that they will win races again before this season is through. After Melbourne, everyone was saying how well the transition from the Brawn/Schuey era had gone and what a great replacement Kimi was, and after two bad races, the same people are now crying out for a return to the days of old...

[ioan]

Personally, I don't share the opinion that Brawn is the guru to cure all of Ferrari's problems instantly. People tend to forget that the Scuderia has had far less successful seasons than this (2005 for instance, when they would probably not have won a single race had it not been for Indygate) when Brawn (and Schuey, for that matter) were still around.

It's not the number of wins the problem, but the fact that they are losing out to their rivals with every race that goes by.
Ferrari were known for coming back every time they were down, and this isn't the case this year.

2005 was about a flawed design, they simply started it all wrong for the new regulations.

[jas123f1]

Incredibly it seems that everything brakes only in his car.
A bizarre coincidence with what was happening at McLaren for a few seasons. :p :

??? I'm sorry but I must say that your "expert knowledge" seams to be a bit "imperfect". :)

When comparing Kimi with his Team-mate(s) at McLaren "for a few seasons" it looks in more like that:

2006 season was Kimi retiring 6 times and his Team-mate 7 times.

2005 season was Kimi retiring 2 times and his Team-mate 6 times

2004 season was Kimi retiring 8 times and his Team-mate 4 times

2003 season was Kimi retiring 3 times and his Team-mate 5 times

That means:
during his time at McLaren Kimi retired 19 times and his team-mate 22 times.

However as you can see 2004 was a difficult year for Kimi, but there was a good reason for those 4 times where Kimi wasn’t able to finish while his team mate did it. I think the reason was more that the "one engine for the whole weekend rule" was introduced and MB wasn’t up to the standard..and despite that he was forced to retire 4 times more than his team-mate he still was scoring 45 points again Coulthard's 24. :)

[Viktory]

That means:
during his time at McLaren Kimi retired 19 times and his team-mate 22 times.


but how many of those times were mechanical failures? His team-mates might have retired due to driver error, not mechanical breakdown more often than Kimi.

[jas123f1]

but how many of those times were mechanical failures? His team-mates might have retired due to driver error, not mechanical breakdown more often than Kimi.


The reasons looks quite normal for me: :)

2003 (retired 3 times) the reasons were: 1 collision, 1 engine and 1 accident…

2004 (retired 8 times) the reasons were: 4 times engine, 1 transmission, 1 pneumatics, 1 accident and 1 electrical …
(As I said earlier the "one engine for the whole weekend rule" made that MB engines wasn’t up to standard..

2005 (retired 2 times) the reasons were 1 driveshaft and 1 hydraulics…

2006 (retired 6 times) the reasons were: 4 times accident, 1 heat shield fire and 1 throttle…

[jas123f1]

Last year at this time they were getting better and better, so I don't see your point.

The point was that we shouldn’t speak too much b***s*** about drivers after only 6 races, especially when they have won 3 races and are making, generally seen, a good work. Racing is a hard business and sometimes it’s better to take it easy and score as many points as possible. I think tracks like Monaco, Canada and Hungary doesn’t suit Ferrari that well as we would wish. But - Ok I understand your disappointments - however speaking "nonsense" is not any medicine against that. :)

[stevie_gerrard]

It's such a strange situation with Ferrari, I've never known such a bad patch they have been going through recently. I thought Massa was unfortunate in the end, despite the fact it was the right decision. kimi does not look comfortable there whatsoever.

[Mickey T]

How long was that wind tunnel off? You would expect them to react pretty fast given all the money they have at disposal.

Also they don't have only 1 wind tunnel.





believe it was down for eight or nine days. At three x eight-hour shifts per day (they were running it 24 hours at the time), that's effectively 24 normal working days lost, minimum. So, effectively, a month in normal time is compressed into eight or nine days in F1 time...

Reacting quickly isn't the issue. believe me, they reacted as quickly as they could.

the nature of the failure (it was a failure of the chain that drove the rolling road) needed to be investigated first (i'm also told they're still not exactly sure why it failed), the shambles cleaned up, the collateral damage patched up and specialist parts had to be made from scratch.

Ferrari has two wind tunnels for F1 work, neither of them full size. the failure was in the half-scale tunnel.

[Viv]

They have 3 wins this season :)
I think both Ferrari and Kimi will come back before the end of this season. They did win in Spain, they just lost a couple of races

[wmcot]

I think that Ferrari fans (myself included) expect each season to be like 2002 or 2004. If you look back from the time MS joined them, you'll see:

1996 they were not competitive,
1997 close number 2,
1998 close number 2,
1999 - MS accident, so who knows,
2000 close but #1,
2001 close #1,
2002 dominant #1,
2003 close #1,
2004 dominant #1
2005 way off pace
2006 close #2
2007 close #2 so far...

I don't think that Ferrari is that bad this year, just that McLaren has made a great leap forward. It looks like McLaren is having a year like Ferrari had in 2002 or 2004. The question now is what do they do to close the gap and can they do it this year. There are quite a number of things that have to improve and I don't think Ross Brawn can change them all by himself. There are a lot of new people or people in new jobs at Ferrari and they will make mistakes. I have to be realistic and think that Ferrari may end up as the #2 team this year. I don't like it, but that's racing...

[Ranger]

In Canada last year, Alonso had cruised to 4 straight victories, and some forum members were telling Alonso to enjoy his 2006 title after he had scored 84/90 possible points from 9 rounds. Now that title went down to round 18/18 so it shows that it is possible for Ferrari to win the title. Of course, something needs to change from what they are currently doing as it doesn't seem to be working compared to the McLaren team.

[wmcot]

It seems that those who were crowning Kimi and Ferrari as champions after Australia are the ones crucifying them now after 6 races!

[jas123f1]

I think that Ferrari fans (myself included) expect each season to be like 2002 or 2004. If you look back from the time MS joined them, you'll see:

1996 they were not competitive,
1997 close number 2,
1998 close number 2,
1999 - MS accident, so who knows,
2000 close but #1,
2001 close #1,
2002 dominant #1,
2003 close #1,
2004 dominant #1
2005 way off pace
2006 close #2
2007 close #2 so far...

I don't think that Ferrari is that bad this year, just that McLaren has made a great leap forward. It looks like McLaren is having a year like Ferrari had in 2002 or 2004. The question now is what do they do to close the gap and can they do it this year. There are quite a number of things that have to improve and I don't think Ross Brawn can change them all by himself. There are a lot of new people or people in new jobs at Ferrari and they will make mistakes. I have to be realistic and think that Ferrari may end up as the #2 team this year. I don't like it, but that's racing...

I think your reasoning is quite realistic, but in my mind it’s still too early to send any congratulations mail to McLaren. And I would like also add one important thing, namely that during all those "close" years Ferrari was more or less a one "driver team" (without to take any glory from Schumi’s performance). Today it’s not more like that any more (I think) and that makes it more difficult to any of the drivers to win WDC. But F1 racing is F1 racing and everything can happen (and it usually does), so one can only keep the fingers crossed and enjoy .. :)

[Mr Kurtz]

I seems the Ferrari is especially having problems when following other cars. And now McLaren have taken a step forward, so the ferraris are not starting on the front line anymore. I guess they'll have to work on that. Otherwise their performance seems pretty good. Now it also looks like Massa and Raikkonen are not driving very aggressively, by which I mean that they just keep following the car in front (even when it's an Aguri). Now , since Raikkonen is a great driver who hasn't forgotten how to race in just one winter, and the same goes for Massa, probably the aero problems when driving behind a car are the cause of this. The drivers have two options in a case like this: play it safe and try to catch as many points as possible, or take risks that can turn out good or not. We can't see what would happen if they were driving taking those risks, but probably they wouldn't have more points than now if they took those risks and gained some and lost some. So, allthough it doesn't look very spectacular what they're doing now, they're probably doing the best they can. However, if you see the way a McLaren is capable of closely follow a car and overtake, it's probably a great deal of work to be done by the scuderia. But we musn't forget it's still Ferrari, and those guys can come back fast if they have a break once in a while. So congrats to McLaren for doing a great job so far, but I wouldn't count out the Ferrari-boys just yet.

[jas123f1]

When i'm looking how Ferrari drivers are reacted to the latest GPs a bit pour performance - it seams to me that Massa is more thoughtful than Kimi. Maybe he had bigger expectations for Monaco and Canada than Kimi.
However, I think that now, when Monaco and Canada are behind, it will be easier for Ferrari drivers to win races again. Even if I agree that you have a point when saying that it will be easier from pole position and with open air. I should also say that they need a better start as well. If everything works out as well as it can - I think there is a possibility all ready in USA. But that’s of cause only what I’m thinking :) ...

[airshifter]

It's not far into the season, and Ferrari have come back before.

Also keep in mind that in years past, the failures and accidents of other cars has at times shifted things in Ferrari's direction.

[wmcot]

I think your reasoning is quite realistic, but in my mind it’s still too early to send any congratulations mail to McLaren. And I would like also add one important thing, namely that during all those "close" years Ferrari was more or less a one "driver team" (without to take any glory from Schumi’s performance). Today it’s not more like that any more (I think) and that makes it more difficult to any of the drivers to win WDC. But F1 racing is F1 racing and everything can happen (and it usually does), so one can only keep the fingers crossed and enjoy .. :)


No, I wouldn't be crowning any champions yet, either. There is still most of a season ahead. So far it has been a more enjoyable season than most recent ones (maybe if we held all the races in Canada????) :)

[ioan]

It's not far into the season, and Ferrari have come back before.

Also keep in mind that in years past, the failures and accidents of other cars has at times shifted things in Ferrari's direction.

Might be but McLaren suffered mainly engine failures but the FIA took care of that and with this year's rev limited engines it is highly unlikely to see them having problems.

[ArrowsFA1]

McLaren suffered mainly engine failures but the FIA took care of that...
To be clear, are you now accusing the FIA of introducing the 19,000rpm limit specifically to benefit McLaren?

[Mark]

Well we just have to wait and see what measures the FIA will try this year to help Ferrari win. Does McLaren have any sort of mass damper type thing which is different from Ferrari? If they do they can bet it'll be banned soon enough ;)

[ioan]

To be clear, are you now accusing the FIA of introducing the 19,000rpm limit specifically to benefit McLaren?

Yes, I am.

Freezing engine development is one thing, but that would not have been good for several teams that were experiencing problems for some time already (i.e. McLaren Mercedes), limiting engines able to do 21000 rpm to 19000 rpm means they favored those who had not reliable enough engines.

[ioan]

Does McLaren have any sort of mass damper type thing which is different from Ferrari?

Last year McLaren declared that they were also using a similar device, but that was not concerned by the FIA ban, unlike the Renault and Ferrari ones. They didn't ban it than they won't ban it now either.

But I think we should move all this discussion to a whole new thread about FIA and McLaren.

[ArrowsFA1]

But I think we should move all this discussion to a whole new thread about FIA and McLaren.
To be continued here - Are the FIA favouring McLaren? (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118077) - :cool:

[ArrowsFA1]

No more MS to produce miracle lap times, no more RB for magical strategy under stupid SC rules and what we get?
Felipe Massa:
"I think it is so easy to find an excuse when you cannot be in the front. I think in some things it is related to the type of asphalt, like in Monaco and Canada, and our car did not work. We struggled in terms of finding the right grip and we don't know why."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59763

Let's hope Ferrari are back on the pace this weekend, and the four-way title battle can continue :s mokin:

[ioan]

Well, Ferrari had good race pace at Indy.
I only have the fastest lap charts to base my point on, but it's a good start for their improvement.
Kimi had the fastest lap of the race and Felipe was only 1 tenth down on the McLarens.
If they could perform this well in qualifying than it would be them on the top at the end.

So back to work people, you still don't have the fastest car out there and need to do much better.

I'm still puzzled how Felipe managed to lose so much time in a few laps after the 1st pit stop.
As the race wasn't on the telly in France I have no idea what exactly happened. Could someone tell me how things went at that moment?

[ioan]

And things are not looking very bright back at Maranello, at least according to this article:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19297.html


New storm is due to break this week in Italy where we hear a new espionage scandal is about to break with a former Ferrari team member being accused of having sold designs to rival teams. No more details are currently available but there is expected to be some kind of public statement from Ferrari soon.

Elsewhere at Maranello there are a number of aerodynamics engineers moving to rival teams. Ferrari says these are all junior employees and that poaching of staff is normal in F1 but we believe that at least on those involved is fairly senior.

We have been hearing reports for some time about stresses and strains within the team and the defections seem to be a result of this.

[janneppi]

And things are not looking very bright back at Maranello, at least according to this article:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19297.html

This s why i wasn't too happy that Kimi went to Ferrari, once MS quit, there isn't a binding force in the team anymore, so many engineers want a change and once other teams smell blood, it's hard to keep them from leaving.

[Racehound]

Me think there is only one reason for Ferrari's result today: Brawn
are you saying Ferrari have no brains?????....... :)

[Racehound]

I think Ferrari need better race management. Wasn't anybody watching as Massa left the pits while the light was red? A driver needs help to see such things when his attention is on so many other things all at once! There is really something missing from the entire Ferrari organization this season! No body is catching the small details that can cost races.
im not so sure a driver needs help to see directly IN FRONT when hes driving a car!!!!!....after all, where else should you be looking if you dont want to plough straight into something????.....and surely if you see a RED LIGHT on a race track it should ring alarm bells in your head!!!!!!!!!...if you see a red light on the road it means only 1 thing.........S-T-O-P!!!!!!!!!!!!!....as you exit pitlane you have a section of the track that is whitelined, that you MUST NOT!!!! cross until you have fed into the flow of traffic approaching from behind you, and the cars approaching the pit exit feeder lane must not cross it either, so as to ensure as best as possible that 1 car at high speed and 1 car at low speed dont collide!!!!!...so i think felipe can only blame himself for this 1, as race management deals with a lot of things during a race, but it cant deal with actually DRIVING the car!!.....thats why the drivers get paid vast amounts of money if theyre any good, to actually drive an error free race for their team......but i know what you mean considering all the communications equipment they have, and maybe toady shoulda told BOTH his drivers by now that a red light in the pit lane means STOP!!!!........... :)

[Ranger]

At least they've now stuck with the same sweet car colour as in Monaco... maybe the new colour is slowing them down? :D

[Racehound]

This s why i wasn't too happy that Kimi went to Ferrari, once MS quit, there isn't a binding force in the team anymore, so many engineers want a change and once other teams smell blood, it's hard to keep them from leaving.
Well, i was saying early last season that Kimi would have to be some kind of special idiot if he decided to leave McLaren!!!!!.....although they didnt win last year, all the signs were there that they were on the way back up, but i suppose after 5 years of not getting the job done, he couldnt see the wood for the trees!!!!!.....i was over the moon when FA signed early for McLaren, and was looking forward to seeing KR and FA at it head-to-head in the same car, but then KR must have lost his bottle???!!! at the prospect ;( although he knows how to find his "bottle" now :) ...if you know what i mean.....ole party boy bottle that is :dozey: )........ :)

[Racehound]

How many NASCAR spotters does it take to spot a red light at the exit to the pitlane? :D

By the way, did anyone notice that Martin was saying that Taku was actually lapping faster than Kimi near the end of the race? :p :
yes!!!....and the live timing told us!! :)