Is this a case of political correction or mistaken identity?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

This video claims that when writing his nationality he has to say British, not English, and it has made him mad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LlkJyWh7Sc

I don't think it's political correction, but just a lack of education. (you are English so by default you are British?)

Is PC blames for everything now?

[jso1985]

well acording to every single geography book I have seen, England is not a country, hence you can't have English nationality.
or is that citizenship? now I'm confused. :s

[BM]

I am Scottish first, not British. (Then European, etc.)

Surely, this guy should put English on the form, and if sacked by doing that, then he could take his employers to a tribunal on the grounds of racial discrimination?

But having viewed it again:

He said, "I was asked my nationality" - technically, he is a British National, and cannot be an English national (neither can the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish be nationals from their respective countries) - so therefore his employer is entirely correct.

[SEATFreak]

Just a suggestion mind, but might this be where something can be said for England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales getting independence but still keeping both Great Britain and the United Kingdon?

Would the drawing up of some agreement for the English, Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh to mutually agree independence if the aim being to free each other to claim English, Northern Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationality without ignoring the fact they are still part of Great Britain work?

As someone who agrees with Independence if it is in the best interests of the strength of Britain I am sceptical whether Blair et al will be giving the public a refferendum on the issue any time soon. But I am confident over 50% would want Independence for ther country anyway. I feel this agreement wouldn't be going againt the wishes of the public. Quite the opposite.

[GridGirl]

I questioned this at work about 3 weeks ago. I was looking though some statutory files for a company and one of the directors who happened to be the main shareholder had listed his nationality as Scottish and not British.

The general consensus was that no one really cared what nationality the guy had put down because it still implied he was British anyway. We just thought, if Companies House are willing to accept his nationality, it would do for us as well as we had better things to be doing than worrying about something so trivial.

[fandango]

I feel sorry for this man. He has a point, and should be allowed to put English as his nationality. It certainly wouldn't offend me for anyone to proudly put English as their nationality, and I'm Irish!

Okay, in the grand scheme of things, maybe his country is the UK, but on a form it should be possible for this to fit in - ie anyone who puts English, Scottish, Northern Irish or Welsh could be fitted in by putting UK-English etc.

The same problem exists in Spain - and there are many "Spaniards" who prefer their national team to lose because they find no expression for their identity in Spain.

Funny what he says about American, though. America is a continent, and the word "Unitedstatesian" doesn't exist in English.

[AndySpeed]

well acording to every single geography book I have seen, England is not a country, hence you can't have English nationality.
or is that citizenship? now I'm confused. :s

In which case every single geography book you have seen is wrong, for England is a country :rolleyes:

[Gannex]

The UK is officially a "country" and its full name is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The status of the UK is that it is a "monarchy", as opposed to being a republic or federation, emirate, state or similar.

England and Scotland each have the status of "constituent country" of the UK, whereas Wales is a "principality" of the UK and Northern Ireland is a "constituent region" of the UK. Places like Guernsey and the Falkland Islands are "UK territories".

If you hold British nationality ("Britain" being an abbreviated name for the UK), you used to be a British Subject, since the UK was and is a monarchy, but recent European Union legislation has provided that the nationals of all member states, including Britain, are now considered "citizens". So a British national is now, for the first time in a long time, both a British Subject and a British Citizen.

Although England is a "constituent country" of the UK, one cannot have English citizenship, any more than one can have Yorkshire citizenship or Greater London citizenship.

The European Union and the United Nations do not recognise distinctions between the the status of nation states. In other words, those orgainsations disregard whether member states are monarchies, republics or whatever. They are all considered "member states", even though very few of them are actually states.

FIFA has its own rules regarding classification. Under FIFA rules, England, and even Northern Ireland, are considered "countries", but the FIFA classifications have no legal effect outside the world of football.

The bare question whether a particular geographical area is a "country" is almost meaningless. You have to state the context. So, meaningful questions would be "Is Ruritania a 'country' for purposes of voting in the United Nations?" or "Is Ruritania a 'country' in the view of Ruritanians from the central region?" or similar. To simply ask if Ruritania is a 'country', begs the further question "according to whom?"

[Brown, Jon Brow]

England has existed as a unified entity since the 10th century; the union between England and Wales, begun in 1284 with the Statute of Rhuddlan, was not formalized until 1536 with an Act of Union; in another Act of Union in 1707, England and Scotland agreed to permanently join as Great Britain; the legislative union of Great Britain and Ireland was implemented in 1801, with the adoption of the name the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921 formalized a partition of Ireland; six northern Irish counties remained part of the United Kingdom as Northern Ireland and the current name of the country, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, was adopted in 1927

(source: http://www.cia.gov )

[Drew]

That's a weird thing. I looked at my friends' driving licenses once and under place of birth they had all put England where as I had put Great Britain, I've never understood which one I'm meant to put down on forms.

[jso1985]

In which case every single geography book you have seen is wrong, for England is a country :rolleyes:

depends on your definition of a country; in Spanish, country means "independent nation" thus making England not a country, just part of the United Kingdom.

[walrus81]

Funny what he says about American, though. America is a continent, and the word "Unitedstatesian" doesn't exist in English.
I always thought that America was 2 continents.

[donKey jote]

depends on your definition of a country; in Spanish, country means "independent nation" thus making England not a country, just part of the United Kingdom.

Country = País = "independent nation" , yes ?

so Wales (País de Gales) would be an "independent nation"

Neat semantic implications for the País Vasco or the nación catalana :D

[Mark]

(Haven't seen the video so don't know what it's about)

"British" is the correct term to put for nationality. However I don't see anything wrong with putting Welsh, English, Scottish, and for Northern Ireland, Irish.

It's just petty mindedness, after all everyone knows that the above implies "British", so what's the problem.

[Mark]

I always thought that America was 2 continents.

Just like Europe and Asia are two continents? When of course they aren't.

[fandango]

(Haven't seen the video so don't know what it's about)

"British" is the correct term to put for nationality. However I don't see anything wrong with putting Welsh, English, Scottish, and for Northern Ireland, Irish.

It's just petty mindedness, after all everyone knows that the above implies "British", so what's the problem.

I have taught English to a lot of different nationalities/subjects/country people. Discussions can get very serious in this area, and in my and many colleagues' experience the worst is between Spanish and Catalans.

Once, after a Catalan girl casually said she wasn't Spanish, a Madrid lad across the room totally lost it, and began screaming "You ARE SPANISH" at her non-stop. The Brazilian, Korean, Chinese and Kuwaiti students were mystified....

[jso1985]

Country = País = "independent nation" , yes ?

so Wales (País de Gales) would be an "independent nation"

Neat semantic implications for the País Vasco or the nación catalana :D

you got me there... :p :

But there's surely a way to make a difference between indendent countries and those who aren't.

[AndySpeed]

Just like Europe and Asia are two continents? When of course they aren't.

Eurasia?

[Rollo]

I see nothing wrong with this person's complaint. I havce myself and indeed on these forums made this comment on several occasions. Is this some kind of reverse racism on the part of people trying to diddle the good and fair people of England out of their own history?

England is not only a country but a kingdom, albeit a united one at that. People from Scotland frequently get mad in saying that their "British" so why can't an Englishman stand up for his country?

It's the English cricket team, England rugby won the World Cup in 2003, the England won the World Cup in 1966 and not Britain.

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker as likely as not

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest :D

The UK is rather a bit like a family. It's fun to fight with your siblings, but in the end the family is united against the horrid neighbours on the other side of the hedge (or in this case the sea).

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It's the English cricket team, England rugby won the World Cup in 2003, the England won the World Cup in 1966 and not Britain.


Yes, but your country is protected by the BRITISH army ;)

[Peter Mandelson]

SNP Independence referendum on cards with Tory support!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=487193

[Loobylou]

When I joined the army I was told I had to put British - English, if I had been from Wales I would have had to put British - Welsh etc.

That was 10yrs ago though, so it's probably changed several times by now, just to confuse the recruiting officers. ;)