Marco Andretti Futility Thread

[Cass]

Rather dissapointed with Marco-mania this year. As of the I500, Marco's inability to finish a race rests at 80% of the season. Two crashes, two "handling" issues do rest well for his future! 4 out of 5 he hasn't seen the checkered flag - well, he did, from the pitlane or paddock.....that doesn't count. I now put forth the idea that he from this day on be known as "Parco Andretti" the best of the family at parking cars at the track.

I seriously doubt his talent, commitment, and ability at this point. At Indy, TK had to set up his and Danica's cars - if you're a prospective team owner - would you hire someone who doesn't have the technical knowledge to set a car up, or communicate what it is or isn't doing - certainly anyone who thinks he will get anything more than a Honda "luv-fest" test spin in F1 must be kidding themselves. The Indy crash has so many questions that can be asked, what was his team doing, the spotters? Were they telling him that Wheldon was there - yes or no? If yes, why didn't Marco listen to them - did he "know" better? He kept pulling right, right, right - was it not enough tire stagger for him to stay left?

AGR would be best served by putting Marco in any race cars during the off weekends so he can get experience. He needs it! Buy him rides in Star Mazda so he can learn the race-craft he so desperately needs - try FF2000 as well...sports cars, anything.....if no IRL race this week he should be running somewhere! I am hard on Danica but she is at least proving to be better qualified than Marco - she finishes and usually does a decent job at set-up (barring Indy & thanks TK). I think AGR really needs to review themselves with some tough scrutiny, perhaps they are best to cut him loose, but, with Mikey Warbucks running the show (thanks dad!) I doubt we'll ever see Marco out of the car, or a ride!

And now, with Milwaukee coming up, a drivers oval, no banking and requirements for balance and braking all needed will we see anything better this weekend? Will TK be summoned to do the set-up once again - if we do I should hope the rose-colored glasses come off about this kid. Does he hit the wall - outside or in or does he "Parco" it again saying he was scared of the car.

Just goes to show that 19 or 20 or 21 here has nothing compared to 19 or 20 or 21 overseas - the experience level in Europe, or South America just dumps on this today!

[CCFanatic]

He was not evwen ready last year, let alone this year. He should be in CCAtlantics or Indy Pro Series. And if he really wants to race F1, he should tell his father to back off and let him go race GP2 or World Series by Renault.

[beachbum]

Wow. I guess you aren't buying Marco t-shirts any time soon. On the other hand, his year has been very disappointing. If he was anyone other than an Andretti, he likely would have gotten his walking papers by now. He seems almost lost out there, which is frightening.

[Wilf]

He was not evwen ready last year, let alone this year. He should be in CCAtlantics or Indy Pro Series. And if he really wants to race F1, he should tell his father to back off and let him go race GP2 or World Series by Renault.

I wonder, what series do you want him to get more experience in that will help him. He has shown himself well on the road/street courses as well as on the flat ovals. Where he needs to improve are on the banked ovals; where do you get that experience in an open wheel car? Look for a top 10 this weekend with a top 5 possible on the flat Milwaukee Mile. He looked good there last year.
He needs time to develop a feel for a car on the high banks.

[Alexamateo]

Marco ran really strong at Indy (kinda like Danica, Indy appears to be his track.) He is inconsistent, but let the guy develop. One thing though "Parco" Andretti is a lol funny name, I don't care who ya are. :laugh:

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I'm willing to cut him some slack until I know whether it was Marco or his spotter who screwed up.

Well apparently Marco was running without a right side rear view mirror. So he and his spotter should have even been more diligent in their communication in traffic.

[DBell]

I wonder, what series do you want him to get more experience in that will help him. He has shown himself well on the road/street courses as well as on the flat ovals. Where he needs to improve are on the banked ovals; where do you get that experience in an open wheel car? Look for a top 10 this weekend with a top 5 possible on the flat Milwaukee Mile. He looked good there last year.
He needs time to develop a feel for a car on the high banks.

If his goal is to make his career as a IRL driver, then he's in the right place.
If his goal is F1, then he should be over in Europe in GP2, learning the tracks, people, and the racing culture there. The IRL doesn't prepare him for that.

[V12]

To be fair he's still young in the grand scheme of things, I'm not either a fan, or a detractor, of Marco to be honest. But it's not that long since another AGR #26 finished upside down at Indy, with a few people saying he was too wild and inexperienced on the ovals. Now that car's driver is an Indy 500 winner, IRL champion and multiple race winner...

[Easy Drifter]

Both Dad and Grandpaw were great drivers but both were known for pulling some real boneheaded moves. It seems Parco (good name) may have inherited that trait.
It is early to be sure but it does appear he is lacking in the ability to set a car up. It could also be a problem with his engineer. A change of engineers might be order. I do think he could have used some more experience in a lower formula.
If he really wants to do F1 he needs to get over there NOW. A1GP wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[skibum]

What racing has Marco done? I remember his Dad racing either FF or FF2000 with SCCA.

[DBell]

What racing has Marco done? I remember his Dad racing either FF or FF2000 with SCCA.

That is a good guestion and, to me, the answer is part of the problem. Marco came up through Karting, but after he raced a mixed schedule. He would race some pro Mazda races, some Atlantic races, and some IPS races. He never put in a full season in any of these series. He jumped around the ladder system like a hired gun, so to speak. I feel he would've been better served to commit to a season with a team and learn how to work within that team. He also should've had a full year in Atlantics before moving to the IRL, IMO.

PS. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure he did run any Atlantic races.

[CCFanatic]

That is a good guestion and, to me, the answer is part of the problem. Marco came up through Karting, but after he raced a mixed schedule. He would race some pro Mazda races, some Atlantic races, and some IPS races. He never put in a full season in any of these series. He jumped around the ladder system like a hired gun, so to speak. I feel he would've been better served to commit to a season with a team and learn how to work within that team. He also should've had a full year in Atlantics before moving to the IRL, IMO.

PS. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure he did run any Atlantic races.
Actually Marco did race full scheldules of some of those series.
Marco's fast rise through open wheel.
2003- age 16 First season in cars in the Fran Am 1600 Series.
2004- age 17 Skip Barber National Championships. He won the championship and I got to drive in one of the cars he raced in at VIR this season
2005- age 18Star Mazda Pro Series. finished in points behind James Hinchcliffe and Graham Rahal.
Indy Pro Series. Won races at St. Petersburg, and the Indy road race. Also ran at Kentucky.
2006- age 19 first year of the IRL. Won the contreversial race at Sonoma.

Marco will be agreat driver, but if he ever wants to race F1 in a competitive car(Honda is light years from that), he should be in GP2 or CCAtlantics or CCWS or something with a strong road racing based shedule.

[Jonesi]

Mikey did SCCA National FF's, then Atlantic and, I think, some CanAm2.

He did a year of Super Vee before moving up to CART, and I didn't think he did Atlantics.

[CCFanatic]

Michael Andretti was the 1983 Toyota Atlantics Champion.

[Jonesi]

Michael Andretti was the 1983 Toyota Atlantics Champion.

Anyone got a good source of records on the web for SV & Atlantics? I'd like to look some 70s era stuff up. BTW Was Toyota in Atlantics then or were they still using the Cosworth BDA motors?

[CCFanatic]

champcarstats.com

Have everthing. Champ Car stuff, IRL stuff, CCAtlantics stuff, Indy Lights stuff, and IPS stuff. Great site with almost every race since around 1900.

[DBell]

Actually Marco did race full scheldules of some of those series.
Marco's fast rise through open wheel.
2003- age 16 First season in cars in the Fran Am 1600 Series.
2004- age 17 Skip Barber National Championships. He won the championship and I got to drive in one of the cars he raced in at VIR this season
2005- age 18Star Mazda Pro Series. finished in points behind James Hinchcliffe and Graham Rahal.
Indy Pro Series. Won races at St. Petersburg, and the Indy road race. Also ran at Kentucky.
2006- age 19 first year of the IRL. Won the contreversial race at Sonoma.

Marco will be agreat driver, but if he ever wants to race F1 in a competitive car(Honda is light years from that), he should be in GP2 or CCAtlantics or CCWS or something with a strong road racing based shedule.

Thanks for correcting my post. At the end I realized I wasn't sure of some of my facts, but posted anyway, figuring someone would correct me. I just remember he seemed to be jumping around a lot when he would've been better served to do CCAtlantics full time. With his family's connections and money, I also think a year in British F3 would've been great. Thats as competitive as junior formulas come. Though he won the Sonoma race, he's looked lost at many other IRL races. I'm not sure he likes ovals outside of Indy much. I completely agree with the end of your post. Any of those series would be better preparation for F1.

[CCFanatic]

Thanks for correcting my post. At the end I realized I wasn't sure of some of my facts, but posted anyway, figuring someone would correct me. I just remember he seemed to be jumping around a lot when he would've been better served to do CCAtlantics full time. With his family's connections and money, I also think a year in British F3 would've been great. Thats as competitive as junior formulas come. Though he won the Sonoma race, he's looked lost at many other IRL races. I'm not sure he likes ovals outside of Indy much. I completely agree with the end of your post. Any of those series would be better preparation for F1.

And all of this is from a CCFanatic. Some one who does not like anything Indy Car. But I have to live with it as my step- father a truckie at AGR. Marco, I think is just stuck in a spot were he can not get out b/c of his father. Marco probably wants to run in the British F3 or GP2 or CC, but b/c Michael is a over proctective father, he does not want his son more than 50 feet away from him.

[Colsanders]

I imagine that Marco is under tremendous pressure with a name like Andretti. He isn't the first driver to have a serious wreck at Indy. A guy named harnish hasn't had such a great IRL season, either.

[Jonesi]

I imagine that Marco is under tremendous pressure with a name like Andretti. He isn't the first driver to have a serious wreck at Indy. A guy named harnish hasn't had such a great IRL season, either.

I think you mean Hornish. He's currently tied for 5th place only 33 points out of first, and his worst finish is 7th, that's a mediocre season that many drivers would love to have.

[Scheckterfan54]

I am stuck wondering if Andretti means the same overseas. Meaning...if he were to go to Europe and climb the latter to F1, would he have as much pressure and attention as he gets here. I also am a little curious as to his true passion for the sport. He seems very serious about racing the IRL, and all that comes with it. But in reality, most people that he comes in contact with on a day to day basis outside of the race track have no clue who he is. I am also curious if he wants that attention at this point. My name is not andretti, but I am 21, and I do not know how I would handle the intense pressure that a young, talented, F1 driver named Andretti would go through. Maybe, just maybe, he is enjoying the IRL circuit because he can truly be himself, a youngman exploring himself and truly finding out what he is all about.

[uncre8tv]

Just wanted to say that as a team owner I would be VERY bothered if a senior driver on my team wanted to help out the younger drivers and they refused. Dario and Michael politely declining TK's help is fine. But Marco and Danica would be seen as stupid, posturing primadonnas if they had refused the help. TK has logged more hours in a car than both of them combined (I bet), allowing him to more correctly and succinctly communicate setup issues to the engineers. This isn't due to any "inability" on the part of the young 'uns, it's just due to the simple math of how long they've been doing this vs. TK.

[F1boat]

I feel very sad for Marco. Probably it is very tough for him now. But he is a race winner, so I wouldn't bash him.

[Cass]

Uncre8tv, as I write this I've not been able to find an article that details who asked who for help in the AGR camp - it appears to me that AGR asked TK to "be the team" here and assist the lessers in the organization.

If that is the case, then what we have are two possible issues/scenarios - 1 engineers on the two cars for Danica and Marco are not good enough to be in this position, or not experienced enough to interupt what is being given to them, or the flip side, the engineers are good enough, the drivers aren't.

Anyways, its irrelevant anyways, Parco put it in the wall at the 'Mile so that makes his record for the year - for those of us keeping track - at 6 races, 5 DNF's (two by Parco'ing the car due to handling issues which could be interupted as he couldn't handle being a race car driver in these cars, three howya doin's as he met yet another wall) and one checkered flag - St Pete only. For those who enjoy percentage based stats - that should be an approximate non-finish percentage at 83.3% now.

Danica finished 8th once again - how many is that now for her IRL career - that would be an interesting thread on its own - perhaps time to google again!

If I was an F1 team I would sign him tomorrow for a $30mil deal - I mean really, Lewis Hamilton got nothing on the Parco! I am sending an email to the AGR site to ask at what point does he get cut loose - 90%, 92.5% or 100%?

And please don't reply that he was doing great up to that point, the end result is the same, he crashed so it doesn't matter what he was doing, or what he did - he found the wall again.

[Scheckterfan54]

6/3/07...case proven

[Wilf]

I wonder, what series do you want him to get more experience in that will help him. He has shown himself well on the road/street courses as well as on the flat ovals. Where he needs to improve are on the banked ovals; where do you get that experience in an open wheel car? Look for a top 10 this weekend with a top 5 possible on the flat Milwaukee Mile. He looked good there last year.
He needs time to develop a feel for a car on the high banks.

On Sunday TK was asked about Marco's problems and this is some of what he said:


Can you imagine for a 20-year-old kid that his name is Andretti, he won a race his first year, his teammates are up at the front all day. He's been going through a phase that I think is not only his fault, but it happens. It happens to anybody, especially to the young drivers.

I've been working really hard to help him out. We've been spending a lot of time together. I can name many examples to him, and I show him races that I've done bad, I made mistakes, show bad results like last weekend. A car that is dominant, you go out and you finish 12th.

The difference between a mature guy and a young guy, I would say it's not to get affect by that because once you put negative thoughts into your mind, that's tough, and I've been there. I remember, Zanardi used to tell me the same thing. I thought he was a crazy Italian guy trying to tell me things, what the hell. And it's true. I'm trying really hard to show him that it will go away. He has the talent. He just needs to think about what he needs to do to make it better.

It's not just up to him, though, I have to say. A coincidence of a lot of facts that made things happen. Yes, he's driving the car, he crashed. If we going to get into details right now, it's going to be tough because there's a lot of other things that happened a couple of times for him to crash. But, you know, one of them today I think it was totally his fault. But it happens. We make mistakes, and that's life. You cannot get affect by that because you jeopardizing the next result.

The easiest thing to do right now is to give up. The easiest thing to do right now is open the newspaper and read all of we say about him. I said, don't worry about that. Don't read that stuff. Just let's go away. He's going to Miami with me this week. Up until the Formula One weekend, we're going to be together. I'll just try to do what Zanardi did to me and just kind of show him that, look, forget about it. I mean, move on.

TK added that Marco was going to spend the week with him in Miami and talk things through. It appears to many that he has the talent, particularly on the road courses and I have been pounded bloody by those who say if a driver can win on a road course he or she can win on an oval. I still maintain, you have to have a different mindset to be good on an oval. Time will tell.

[DBell]

On Sunday TK was asked about Marco's problems and this is some of what he said:



TK added that Marco was going to spend the week with him in Miami and talk things through. It appears to many that he has the talent, particularly on the road courses and I have been pounded bloody by those who say if a driver can win on a road course he or she can win on an oval. I still maintain, you have to have a different mindset to be good on an oval. Time will tell.

I'm not going to pound you because because I agree with you. I question how much he likes ovals outside of Indy. Setups are everything in oval racing and without the experience and knowledge that older drivers have, he's totaly dependent on his engineers to get it right. He certainly seems to lack confidence in his car as races progress. As the track changes during a race he doesn't seem to be able to adjust his car accordingly.

[Komahawk]

Just BTW, I find it curious (to say the least) to read that most users just say something like "give him time". Had it been Danica with 4 DNFs out of 5 attempts she'd get bashed like no driver has been bashed before.

Still, I think Marco can do alot better. And he will.

[F1boat]

On Sunday TK was asked about Marco's problems and this is some of what he said:



TK added that Marco was going to spend the week with him in Miami and talk things through. It appears to many that he has the talent, particularly on the road courses and I have been pounded bloody by those who say if a driver can win on a road course he or she can win on an oval. I still maintain, you have to have a different mindset to be good on an oval. Time will tell.

The bad thing is that for me it seems that Marco feels rattled and humilated.

[xtlm]

Just because it has not been said


He did done there good last weekend.

[pits4me]

Michael Andretti was the 1983 Toyota Atlantics Champion.
1983 was a great season between Michael, Roberto Moreno and Dan Marvin who won in 1984




Anyone got a good source of records on the web for SV & Atlantics? I'd like to look some 70s era stuff up. BTW Was Toyota in Atlantics then or were they still using the Cosworth BDA motors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champ_Car_Atlantic_Series

[millencolin]

to me, he seems to be a very talented road racer. so i think he is in the wrong series! Champ Car is the series he should be racing in. If F1 is his goal, then the IRL isnt the path to take. I think Marco should race in Champ Car, yet still participate in the Indy500. Newmann-Hass has a good relationship with the Andretti family, im sure they could sought something out

[gm99]

On Sunday TK was asked about Marco's problems and this is some of what he said:

TK added that Marco was going to spend the week with him in Miami and talk things through. It appears to many that he has the talent, particularly on the road courses and I have been pounded bloody by those who say if a driver can win on a road course he or she can win on an oval. I still maintain, you have to have a different mindset to be good on an oval. Time will tell.

Well, it took Dario Franchitti forever to be successfull on an oval, too - he didn't win on one until his sixth season in Champ Car (Rockingham 2002) and now he's an Indy 500 champion and the points leader in a primarily oval-based series. One mustn't forget that Marco had next to no oval experience prior to joining to the IRL, as in the Pro Series he only ran the road courses (except for a one-off at Kentucky). I think it just takes time and experience to be a really good oval racer - although there are exceptions to this rule like Bourdais or Montoya, but both of them had vastly more racing experience in other series.

[Komahawk]

What makes it so puzzling is that Marco did quite well in most ovals last year. He was constantly in the top10. And he brought the car home in one piece most of the time.
It sure it is just a bad streak. But seriously, how much more of this will AGR swallow? And/Or the sponsor? They have Herta on the sideline, who could just jump in and get a top10 or top5 any day. In fact, with the AGR-cars being really competative this year, and with the increased number of road races, Herta wouldn't be a surprise in victory lane.

And about Marco's goal being F1: If that's what's on his mind, I have no idea why he came to the IRL in the first place. Nelson Piquet built a GP2-team just for his son, he used all his connections to get him the test-driver cockpit at Renault. Michael and Mario should start a similar project, if that's what's on their mind. Marco can return to America and go for the '500 anytime.

[huxleypiguk]

The kid is just that, still a kid. Saw him on ITV being interviewed at the USGP, and he came across as a rabbit in the headlights, especially when asked about F1. It was clear that there is no roadmap for him to get there and it is purely the name of Andretti that makes people think he will. he has a lot to prove BUT he has a lot of years in front of him yet.

I think a year or two in Champ Car or GP2 might prove his road racing credentials and make him a bit more F1 bankable.

BTW a horse called Miss Andretti won at Ascot today in front of the Queen

[Komahawk]

Is there also a Miss Danica? ;)

[ivirens]

I encountered this article the other day. I thought some of the contributors to this thread would find it interesting. It's a bit old, but it may provide some insight as to why Marco is where he is.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/21251/

[F1boat]

He got a podium yesterday! I am very happy for him!

[RGM Fan]

But why is he trying to get good at oval racing when he wants to spend the balance of his career in a series that doesn't race on ovals?

[F1boat]

From what I know, he wants to win the 500. Indy is where he should be, if he wants to win that race.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I wonder, what series do you want him to get more experience in that will help him. He has shown himself well on the road/street courses as well as on the flat ovals. Where he needs to improve are on the banked ovals; where do you get that experience in an open wheel car? Look for a top 10 this weekend with a top 5 possible on the flat Milwaukee Mile. He looked good there last year.
He needs time to develop a feel for a car on the high banks.

If the goal is to stay in the IRL, your advice is valid. The dirty little secret though is Marco has F1 aspirations. Running well at Texas doesn't mean much to f1 owners. They want to know if you will run La Source at Spa flat out....

As for all this talk about Marco, he just finished second at a pretty tough little bullring in Iowa,so lets stop writing the kid off. He is still learning on ovals, and I think is having a tougher time submitting his ego to the hands of the engineers. Marco I think still wants to just overcome all by just using his right foot, and today's racing wont allow that ham fisted approach. He will get there.....

[nigelred5]

If the goal is to stay in the IRL, your advice is valid. The dirty little secret though is Marco has F1 aspirations. Running well at Texas doesn't mean much to f1 owners. They want to know if you will run La Source at Spa flat out....

As for all this talk about Marco, he just finished second at a pretty tough little bullring in Iowa,so lets stop writing the kid off. He is still learning on ovals, and I think is having a tougher time submitting his ego to the hands of the engineers. Marco I think still wants to just overcome all by just using his right foot, and today's racing wont allow that ham fisted approach. He will get there.....

I think he wants to try to be the Andretti that can finally end that little curse on the family at the intersection of 16th and Georgetown. He can run F1 in the future as he has the contacts with Honda. Daddy's money is in the IRL right now, so that's where he's racing. That wasn't the totally the case when he was developing running somewhat under the radar in Barber and Atlantics. He could have used another year in atlantics, but he had basically reached the point where his name was bringing too much attention to his on track record and they needed to pull him in under the IRL team umbrella. What good was running in the pro series going to do. IF he wants to get to F1, I agree eventually he's going to need to get some time in a GP2 ride. Even moving over to CCWS isn't going to get him the cred he needs in the eyes of the F1 generals.