Ralf Schumacher's career coming to an end sooner than expected? [Archive]

jens

31st May 2007, 21:56

The silly season is under way, but the speculations around Ralf have recently been too frequent to ignore them. His seat is under threat not only considering next year, but already this season! There are rumours that Ralf may have been given just two races to prove himself and if he won't deliver, he will be replaced by... Sutil? Nakajima? Montagny? Anyone else?

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31610
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2159396,00.html

Is Ralf the first driver this year, who will be replaced before the end of the season? And is it a wise move to replace him during the season? And what has been wrong with Ralf this year? Is the car really that unsuitable to him or has he been unmotivated driving an uncompetitive car? Or does he know that his career won't last for long and therefore he doesn't have motivation to give 100%?

schmenke

31st May 2007, 22:25

Mrs. schmenke will be upset... :mark:

gm99

31st May 2007, 22:35

As Toyota will most likely have to continue to pay Ralf's ridiculously high salary for the remainder of the season anyway, it would IMO not make much sense to replace him with a driver like Nakajima or Montagny who are not really quicker than him. Sutil could be an interesting proposition, as he showed great speed this season, outperforming Albers almost anywhere, but I really doubt Spyker will let him go.

Robinho

31st May 2007, 22:48

it won't be any sooner than most of us are expecting, maybe sooner than he thought though, because last i heard he thought he was still one of the best drivers in F1!

ioan

31st May 2007, 23:09

I still wonder why they resigned Jarno then, it's not like he has beaten RS, nor is he doing it now either.

ojciec dyrektor

31st May 2007, 23:31

In my opinion Ralf never was a good driver. Yes he can win, but only if he starts from pole. If there is a driver in front of him, he will follow him till chequered flag.

Eyo

31st May 2007, 23:32

It’s clear that he is linked now to BMW :D

tsarcasm

31st May 2007, 23:34

quali last, finished last for 1mil. a weekend.... I would issue some walking papers to Ralfy

pino

31st May 2007, 23:39

I still wonder why they resigned Jarno then, it's not like he has beaten RS, nor is he doing it now either.

The wine ioan...everyone at Toyota loves Jarno's wine :p :

ioan

31st May 2007, 23:41

quali last, finished last for 1mil. a weekend.... I would issue some walking papers to Ralfy

Team mate barely did better, maybe even worse. Sorry but qualifying 14th and finishing 15 (only a few seconds infront of Ralf) isn't worth to much either.

ojciec dyrektor

31st May 2007, 23:50

Team mate barely did better, maybe even worse. Sorry but qualifying 14th and finishing 15 (only a few seconds infront of Ralf) isn't worth to much either.

at least he can qualify ;)

Ian McC

1st June 2007, 00:13

Ralfie boy will be in DTM soon enough, I am sure someone there will welcome him with opens arms.

trumperZ06

1st June 2007, 00:18

:dozey: Many of us never understood why Toyota signed Ralfie !!!

With an excellent car on a good day... ole Ralfie was quite fast but...

those days were few & far between.

:p : Now he can go back to running his "TOY" stores. Much better suited to his talents.

Valve Bounce

1st June 2007, 02:27

Maybe Ralfie likes the look of the rear of those second hand Hondas :p :

ClarkFan

1st June 2007, 02:40

The wine ioan...everyone at Toyota loves Jarno's wine :p :

But Ralf can whine, too, Pino.

Oh.....you said "wine"....

:p

ClarkFan

Valve Bounce

1st June 2007, 03:22

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :rolleyes:

tsarcasm

1st June 2007, 05:38

Team mate barely did better, maybe even worse. Sorry but qualifying 14th and finishing 15 (only a few seconds infront of Ralf) isn't worth to much either.

true

Trulli is good for 1 lap, then falls asleep or something

wmcot

1st June 2007, 06:20

I can't see an advantage to replacing him in mid season with Nakajima except to give him some experience. Too bad they still have to pay his enormous salary.

Maybe we'll see him in NASCAR as teammates with JPM???? :)

cy bais

1st June 2007, 06:29

Looking back at Ralf's salary and lack of success, Toyota's saying "mo-tay-nai" ... japanese for: what a waste.

:)

Valve Bounce

1st June 2007, 06:59

Looking back at Ralf's salary and lack of success, Toyota's saying "mo-tay-nai" ... japanese for: what a waste.

:)

......or lap sap!! as the people in HK would say.

harsha

1st June 2007, 07:07

the toyota car wasn't top of the line this year............. :)

aryan

1st June 2007, 13:43

I still wonder why they resigned Jarno then, it's not like he has beaten RS, nor is he doing it now either.

Maybe because the team, through years of testing and development, has a better idea of who is actually the better driver, than just looking at each driver's points at the end of the season which is the method you use to claim that Ralf is as good as Jarno.

Toyota should drop Ralf now, the sooner they do, the more time they will have to offer that seat to some potential next-year runners. It's not like they can move back from being last...

keysersoze

1st June 2007, 14:54

If Ralf considers himself a top line driver he needs, to a significant degree, to be able to drive around or somehow overcome the car's deficiencies. Many of the great ones have. Ralf is phenomenally quick when the car is just right for him, but it's hard to excuse his recent form.

Ranger

1st June 2007, 15:07

Maybe its got something to his attitude rather than the performances. When a driver doesnt appear to be motivated and spends a fair segment of the most recent race in last position then that seems to draw conclusions in itself. The fact that he's on a $20 million paycheck (above all bar 1 driver) seems to only highlight this.

RaikkonenRules

1st June 2007, 18:43

Team mate barely did better, maybe even worse. Sorry but qualifying 14th and finishing 15 (only a few seconds infront of Ralf) isn't worth to much either.

I think Jarno made 1 more stop than Ralf. Ralf only qualified 20th and ran at the very back for at least a third of the race.

odykas

1st June 2007, 18:51

I think Jarno made 1 more stop than Ralf. Ralf only qualified 20th and ran at the very back for at least a third of the race.

$20M -> 20th place

Where's the problem? http://www.thelab.gr/images/smilies/hehe.gif

ioan

1st June 2007, 19:16

I think Jarno made 1 more stop than Ralf. Ralf only qualified 20th and ran at the very back for at least a third of the race.

I think that most of the team and drivers agreed that in Monaco the 1 stopper was worse than the 2 stopper strategy.
And still RS finished right behind JT (very few seconds behind) after starting last and with the inferior strategy.

Fact is that since ever Jarno can qualify better but Ralf is the better racer of the two. And there are no points for qualifying in F1.

truefan72

1st June 2007, 19:48

I always felt that the Toyota car was hampered with inept drivers and poor management. Put it in the hands of some of the top drivers and you might be surprised by the results. I have never been one to wish a driver would leave, but in this case, based on his 2007 performance and most recently in the Monaco GP, Ralfie should be put on severe notice. They are starting to clean house (again) over at Toyota now and they shouldn't stop with mangement.

Zsolt

1st June 2007, 20:25

I never thought Ralf was a good driver.....just living off of his brother's name for the most part.

/Only been following F1 since about 03.

jens

1st June 2007, 20:41

Ralf's "problem" is that he is too often compared to his brother. There are other drivers too!

I always felt that the Toyota car was hampered with inept drivers and poor management. Put it in the hands of some of the top drivers and you might be surprised by the results.

Which drivers would you have hired? And what would the results be?

One task. Do you think Red Bull, Honda, Williams and Renault need better drivers for better results? And if not, how are Toyota's ones weaker?

I still wonder why they resigned Jarno then, it's not like he has beaten RS, nor is he doing it now either.

Same question. Which driver instead of Jarno?

And I mean supposable options, not dreamable Räikkönen-Alonso pairings.

About Monaco: both Jarno and Ralf were on one-stoppers. Arguably Trulli had brakes cooling problems and also it may be supposed that he didn't have motivation to push 100% till the end as there wasn't much to catch - that's why Ralt caught him by the end.

Ralf has had two races, where he should have done better (Malaysia and Bahrain), then he was a bit unlucky at Barcelona and at Monaco the car was too slow to rate him accurately. All in all it has been the worst season season for him, but probably we need a few more races to see whether he should be dropped and should it happen in mid-season or not. Besides Montagny I don't see other decent replacements. Sutil still needs a bit more time - currently he crashes too often.

ioan

1st June 2007, 20:58

Same question. Which driver instead of Jarno?

jens I do not question Ralf and Jarno as drivers, it was just a question directed at those who sing Jarno's praises and bash Ralf all day long (based on his name and salary) but do not realize that Jarno isn't overall any better than Ralf.

Valve Bounce

2nd June 2007, 02:05

Looking at it from anther perspective, does anyone here think that Ralfie deserves the high salary he is getting for the return he produces?

Valve Bounce

2nd June 2007, 11:18

Just found this: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19222.html

jens

3rd June 2007, 16:50

Just found this: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19222.html

Toyota is now beginning to wonder whether results might improve dramatically if the team took a risk.

This part sounds rather interesting. And that's true that they have practically nothing to lose, so they may risk. But I also suppose that risks should be involved in every area, not just drivers (alas the change from Tomita to Yamashina does not sound like a significant change...). In the past they have made some quick and rushed decisions on drivers, which have not brought results. Probably only the change to RS-JT has had some positive effect.

Glock and Sutil may be interesting choices in future perspectives. They seem to be also the most risky ones as they are still quite unproven in F1 regardless of a few races. Plus both are Germans, which may be attractive for Toyota in terms of German market.

Hondo

3rd June 2007, 21:34

Looking at it from anther perspective, does anyone here think that Ralfie deserves the high salary he is getting for the return he produces?

I think Ralfie, or any driver, deserves the highest salary they can hoodwink a team into paying them. I don't begrudge Ralfie the money, but Toyota ought to be taking a hard look at whoever agreed to give it to him.

Stuartf12007

3rd June 2007, 22:34

Toyota will never have a good car unless the corporation relinquish the running of the team nad contract it out to someone else yet retain and maintain it as if it still were run by the corporation.

Get it?

F1woman

3rd June 2007, 23:13

Ralf Schumacher's is better looking then his brother Michael. But Michael is a better driver then his brother. Why didn't Michael help his baby brother to win? Or get Ferreri to give a drive, is best bet is a drive with ferreri next year just ask Massa and Kim to move over for Ralf. Anyway Ralf the better looking brother I heard he was once link to Jordon the british model, is this true?

andreag

3rd June 2007, 23:27

I never expected the two Toyota drivers would finish the season on their seats, and I can prove it:

I choose Montagny as third driver in FGP :p :

Valve Bounce

4th June 2007, 01:39

Here's a chance for Bourdais. :up:

PSfan

4th June 2007, 01:42

Well it will be kinda sad to see him go, being one of the few drivers on the grid with the distiction of gaining a podium every year he's been in F1 (that was likely to change this year anyway, but would have been nice to have given him the benefit of the full season to see if he could continue that streak)

PSfan

4th June 2007, 02:09

Oh and here’s an thought front way out there, Toyota should wait until after Lemans and put Jacques Villeneuve in there, here’s why:

In 2003 JV had his final race with BAR and they finished 5th in the constructors, the following year they jumped up to 2nd!!! In 2004 he ran a few races for Renault and they finished 3rd in the standings, the year after JV’s final race with them, they won the constructers championship. Last year BMW managed 8th this year it looks promising for them to finish 3rd. It looks like the fastest way to move up the grid is to Have JV run in your cars, and then replace him before the next season :cheese:

andreag

4th June 2007, 02:19

It looks like the fastest way to move up the grid is to Have JV run in your cars, and then replace him before the next season :cheese:
Maybe Ferrari should have hired JV instead of KR, to have a chance of win again the WCC. :p :

Hawkmoon

4th June 2007, 05:46

Can anybody name me a Toyota driver that has had a good season? Toyota's driver history is a litany of poor performance. Other than 2005, NO Toyota driver has ever threatend the front runners. Toyota's first three years were a mess of driver changes. At least Ralf and Trulli have given them some stability.

2002:
Salo - 2 points, best finish 6th (twice)
McNish - 0 points, best finish 7th
(Both drivers replaced after season)

2003:
Da Matta - 10 points, BF 6th (twice)
Panis - 6 points, BF 8th (twice)

2004:
Panis - 6 points, BF 5th
Da Matta - 3 points, BF 6th (12 races)
Zonta - 0 points, BF 10th (5 races)
Trulli - 0 points, BF 11th (2 races)
(Da Matta replaced midseason)

2005:
Ralf - 45 points, BF 3rd (twice)
Trulli - 43 points, BF 2nd (twice)

2006:
Ralf - 20 points, BF 3rd
Trulli - 15 points, BF 4th

2007:
Trulli - 4 points, BF 7th (twice)
Ralf - 1 point, BF 8th

So Ralf is actually the most successful Toyota driver in terms of points scored. Trulli, however, has given Toyota it's best finishing position and has provided Toyota with a much better "bang for their buck".

If Toyota is going to keep Ralf then they need to put him on a performance based contract - dollars for points. Otherwise they need to replace him with a cheap, hungry young guy who will probably bend a few cars but will hopefully galvanise the team behind him.

Valve Bounce

4th June 2007, 06:27

The issue here is that Ralfie's form this year is terrible. :(
Toyota is simply not getting any bans for their bucks. :p :

ioan

4th June 2007, 10:38

Toyota insiders think that Montagny isn't faster than Ralf.

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070604095849.shtml

I would add to that also that Jarno is only faster than Ralf over 1 lap and slower over a race distance.

ioan

4th June 2007, 10:42

2003:
Panis - 6 points, BF 8th (twice)

How did he manage to amass 6 points by finishing 8th twice? :eek:

andreag

4th June 2007, 11:17

How did he manage to amass 6 points by finishing 8th twice? :eek:
He did it finishing 5th in the German GP to get this other 4 points.

ioan

4th June 2007, 11:27

He did it finishing 5th in the German GP to get this other 4 points.

So finishing 8th twice wasn't his BF (best finish). Thanks!

aryan

4th June 2007, 12:00

Forget their racing credentials.

The above stat show that Ralf and Jarno are not good car developers.

They didn't have much input in 2005's car, it was already mostly developed. That was the most successful season for Toyota.

The team has gone back ever since.

Either they don't know how to develop a car, or the team is seriously mismanaged, or both!

jens

4th June 2007, 12:30

Forget their racing credentials.

The above stat show that Ralf and Jarno are not good car developers.

On the contrary, Williams had his best days during last decade with Ralf and Jarno left both Prost and Jordan before their final downfall. Also Renault was moving consistently upwards with Jarno and so did Jordan with Ralf. So where's the truth?

pino

4th June 2007, 12:54

Jarno is a good developer, faster and better than Ralf. They know that in Toyota too and that's why his job is safe...for now :p :

ps: ioan, I know Ralf finished ahead of Jarno for 2 consecutive years, but I won't change my mind ;)

andreag

4th June 2007, 13:06

...and so did Jordan with Ralf.
Jordan get its best results in 1999 (third on WCC), just when Ralf went to Williams. One year later, Jarno arrived to Jordan and they finished sixth.

The best year for Jordan was precisely when none of them were in the team.

Apart from that, Williams best results came when Montoya arrived to the team (3rd, 2nd and 2nd on the WCC), and the colombian scored more points than Ralf during those three years (163-149), finishing twice in a better position.

And Trulli in Renault was beaten once by Button and twice by Alonso.

They don't look like good developers, but rather as lucky drivers, who were in the right team at the time a better one was improving the car (Montoya, Button and Alonso).

Once they came together (with nobody else to develop the car), their star is fading away year after year.

jens

4th June 2007, 13:17

This is something I hear for the first time: Montoya is a better car developer than Ralf?! :eek:

ArrowsFA1

4th June 2007, 13:25

I think both Ralf and Jarno show their best when they are comfortable and confident with the car. If they don't have that confidence then they're likely to lose interest and performance, which demotivates everyone and is exactly why they are not, and never were, a good pairing for Toyota.

ioan

4th June 2007, 13:33

ps: ioan, I know Ralf finished ahead of Jarno for 2 consecutive years, but I won't change my mind ;)

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

pino

4th June 2007, 13:34

Even both they were good developers it wouldn't help, as long Toyota fails to build a competitive car.

Roamy

4th June 2007, 15:40

Ralf's heart is not in it anymore. He is too spoiled to drive a developing car. The only reason he drove the jordan is because of option available.

time to punt this prix

race aficionado

4th June 2007, 17:50

Ralfy has been doomed from the begining being the young brother of Michael Schumacher and never really rising to the status of his "name".

Being in big bros' shadow has been his main legacy.

He won some races with Williams - and if I recall correctly, they were mostly won when he was starting first in the grid - which now that you think of it, is one of the only ways to win in F1 right now . . . .

But basically, RS has been one of the fortunate, and yes, talented drivers to just be able to be in F1. Talented yes, but no up there in the talent list.

Also, I am somewhat biassed because I never like him when he was racing and crashing with JPM at Williams and I also thought that BMW gave him too much value because of his name or nationality and finally, I still cannot understand why Toyota spent that amount of money on him.

RS can retire and join Nascar - that would be a treat and Nascar would love a Schumacher, even if it's the little bro'.

:s mokin:

Hawkmoon

4th June 2007, 19:09

He won some races with Williams - and if I recall correctly, they were mostly won when he was starting first in the grid - which now that you think of it, is one of the only ways to win in F1 right now . . . . :s mokin:

Actually race, only 1 of Ralf's 6 wins has come from pole position. But all have come from 4th or higher on the grid so I think your point is valid. As you say, however, who has won from the midfield?

Oh, and ioan, thanks for pointing out the mistake with Panis. :)

race aficionado

4th June 2007, 19:19

Thanks Hawkmoon.

:)

ioan

4th June 2007, 19:27

Oh, and ioan, thanks for pointing out the mistake with Panis. :)

I actually did not know if his best finishing position was wrong or the points amount, but was to lazy to search for it! ;)

jens

4th June 2007, 20:45

aryan

4th June 2007, 20:58

That might be true that none of Ralf's wins have looked spectacular, but he wasn't far from winning in Belgium'98 (team orders prevented him from attacking Damon), Europe'99 (puncture) or why not even Belgium'05 (wrong tire choice). And if he had won any of them, then that would have indeed been a result achieved in magnificent style. Ralf has shown that he can be a great wet weather driver, but he has been given too little credit for that ability.

We shouldn't take anything from Ralf's wins. A win is a win, fair and square.

Ralf is a proven winner, we know he can be quick, we know he can be magnificent. It just happens so seldom,that I think both we, and him, get bored of it.

Wet races happen what? once every four years?

Valve Bounce

5th June 2007, 01:25

Ralfie has had brilliant wins, but his form right now is mediocre.

Valve Bounce

7th June 2007, 04:08

A usually reliable source informs that Ralfie was seen at Team Honda headquarters heavily disguised : http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/

Hawkmoon

7th June 2007, 04:14

A usually reliable source informs that Ralfie was seen at Team Honda headquarters heavily disguised : http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/

So, that'd be Ralf on the right, yes? :D

gloomyDAY

7th June 2007, 05:03

A usually reliable source informs that Ralfie was seen at Team Honda headquarters heavily disguised : http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/
LOL!

The thread title should read, "Ralf's career is now over...."

DBell

7th June 2007, 09:45

RS can retire and join Nascar - that would be a treat and Nascar would love a Schumacher, even if it's the little bro'.

:s mokin:

I don't know about that. He's always harping about safety in F1 and it's hard to see him wanting to run at ovals. I don't know if his personality would be a good fit in Nascar. He's not the warmest person in the world and can come across as standoffish. In Nascar you have to do a lot of work with sponsors and fans. DTM is a better bet for him. It looks to me he's lost his motivation. I get the feeling he's just out there collecting a paycheck. But he does still have a high opinion of himself. I saw today he wants 30 mil from Toyota next year.

Mickey T

7th June 2007, 10:54

Can't remember who said it, but my favourite quote about Ralf was from a team owner, who described him as: "the very bottom of the top drawer" of drivers.

Ralf's fired up for three or four races a year for a few years now, and that's not forgivable on his salary.

doubt the sport will lose anything much by his disappearance.

aryan

7th June 2007, 13:59

But he does still have a high opinion of himself. I saw today he wants 30 mil from Toyota next year.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

...and I'll laugh even more if Toyota goes on with that...

pino

7th June 2007, 14:13

Dunno why but I've got the feeling that Ralf will surprise everyone in the next 2 races ;)

BenRoethig

7th June 2007, 14:14

RS can retire and join Nascar - that would be a treat and Nascar would love a Schumacher, even if it's the little bro'.

:s mokin:

We don't need a washed up prima dona as a backmarker. JPM actually knows how to race and he's having a tough enough time. Besides, he'd ruin the perception of the home country for a lot of us here with all his whining. Which he would do when he figures out that neither the car nor the crew are going to do everything for him.

BDunnell

7th June 2007, 14:15

Can't remember who said it, but my favourite quote about Ralf was from a team owner, who described him as: "the very bottom of the top drawer" of drivers.

Nice. I also liked the comment about him, I think by Martin Brundle, to the effect that Ralf is 'so arrogant that even his brother notices'.

ClarkFan

7th June 2007, 15:53

But he does still have a high opinion of himself. I saw today he wants 30 mil from Toyota next year.

Could be a "nothing to lose" strategy. Saying "they wouldn't meet my salary requirements" sounds a lot better than "I was fired/sacked/dumped/shown the door."

:p

ClarkFan

And the earlier $20 million => 20th place post may illustrate the problem - faulty understanding by RS of his pay package. Perhaps he believes that if he finishes 5th he only gets $5 million and he gets cut to $1 million for 1st..... :s

wedge

7th June 2007, 16:42

Good assessment here:

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Windsors_Wisdom&PO_ID=39477

ioan

7th June 2007, 17:21

Good assessment here:

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Windsors_Wisdom&PO_ID=39477

You mean this part:
"Important point: Jarno has destroyed Ralf not only in qualifying but also in race conditions."

Jarno destroyed him finishing marginally in front of Ralf after starting 6 positions in front of him???

Thanks for the good laugh. :)

jens

8th June 2007, 12:29

Dunno why but I've got the feeling that Ralf will surprise everyone in the next 2 races ;)

By finishing 21st? :) (Jarno is 19th)

Garry Walker

8th June 2007, 16:33

In my opinion Ralf never was a good driver. Yes he can win, but only if he starts from pole. If there is a driver in front of him, he will follow him till chequered flag.

The "never a good driver" is yet to be beaten by his teammate - He equalled Fisi, and the supposed new Senna. Beat the British hero Button. Is equal to Trulli. Ralf is a good driver, not as good as his bro obviously, but deserving of a seat in F1 still.

You mean this part:
"Important point: Jarno has destroyed Ralf not only in qualifying but also in race conditions."

Jarno destroyed him finishing marginally in front of Ralf after starting 6 positions in front of him???

Thanks for the good laugh. :)

Indeed, the press hates Ralf, and bashes him every way possible. It seems facts dont matter to them, only bashing bashing.

Oh, its windsors writing. Windsor=serious case of oral diarrhoea

Ranger

9th June 2007, 02:24

but deserving of a seat in F1 still.
I would say so too, but the fact that he gets paid $20 million per year (about $11-12 million more than Trulli) to do so, given him and his team's current form, is sinful.

Ian McC

9th June 2007, 11:33

Ralf is a good driver, not as good as his bro obviously, but deserving of a seat in F1 still.

Not for the money they are paying him.

As much as I am not a fan of MS would be good to see him at Toyota to see what he could do with the team.

Garry Walker

9th June 2007, 11:45

I would say so too, but the fact that he gets paid $20 million per year (about $11-12 million more than Trulli) to do so, given him and his team's current form, is sinful.

He cant help his team form, but he can help his own form. So far in races he has been at least as fast as Trulli, so he isnt doing that bad.
But 15 million euros that he is getting paid for a year, is overpaid for sure. Give him 1,5 million as a base salary and bonus for points. That would motivate the little bro, or alternatively, if his heart isnt in it anymore, then he wouldnt accept. IMO, contracts like that are a good way of finding out how motivated one is.

Ian McC

9th June 2007, 23:33

Ralf seems to get a lot of money for just turning up these days

jso1985

10th June 2007, 01:01

Ralf is a good driver, not as good as his bro obviously, but deserving of a seat in F1 still.

He WAS a good driver IMO, I don't consider his 6 wins as pure luck but let's ne honest he's either bored of F1 or unmotivated for some reason, he had his days now it's time to give someone new a chance

N. Jones

10th June 2007, 01:59

He cant help his team form, but he can help his own form. So far in races he has been at least as fast as Trulli, so he isnt doing that bad.

In races, maybe; but his qualifying form his horrendous! He may be as fast as Trulli but when you are 15th while your teammate is 12th there isn't much hope for moving up.

It is time for him to go.

Ranger

10th June 2007, 02:07

That qualifying effort didn't say anything positive to the Toyota people when his team-mate qualified 9 places in front of him amid speculation of his sacking.

Valve Bounce

10th June 2007, 04:47

Maybe he was running heavy for a one stopper? OK, maybe not.!!

ShiftingGears

10th June 2007, 05:46

I think you mean DEFINITELY not :p : Quite disappointing. I agree with jso here.

Ian McC

10th June 2007, 10:58

To be honest was anyone expecting anything more from him?

ShiftingGears

10th June 2007, 11:03

Trulli pulled one out of the bag today, and Ralf had no answer. We'll see if Trullis driving a train tonight!

jens

10th June 2007, 12:31

It's a bit strange to see a driver, who once was expected to be a future top star and WDC, struggling so much. He looks lost. In some way his career reminds Montoya's, doesn't it? In both cases the start of the career looked promising and at one point of the career it even looked possible to become Champion, but then things started going downhill concluding with a miserable end of career. In 2006 Montoya was one of the biggest disappointments of the season and US Grand prix appeared to be his last race in F1. Alas Ralf is moving exactly the same route this season...

Roamy

10th June 2007, 15:45

great job trulli -- he give ole ralfie a chicago heel stomp when he is down.
say goodby to ralfie

ioan

10th June 2007, 16:51

I would say so too, but the fact that he gets paid $20 million per year (about $11-12 million more than Trulli) to do so, given him and his team's current form, is sinful.

Toyota should learn not to sign a contract for several years for such a wage.

Garry Walker

10th June 2007, 17:34

He WAS a good driver IMO, I don't consider his 6 wins as pure luck but let's ne honest he's either bored of F1 or unmotivated for some reason, he had his days now it's time to give someone new a chance

He had traffic yesterday. He crashed trying so hard at Monaco. How does that show him not being motivated?

Ralf really has the worst job in F1 - his bro is the all time best driver, so the many jealous losers who hate MS, but dont have any way of bashing him because of his immense achievements, unleash all that vitriol and venom on Ralf. He is an easy target. Obviously, another reason is him being teammate of the new Senna, Montoya, for 4 years and matching him, therefore destroying the hype.

If Ralfs name was Ralf smith, the bashing towards him would lessen greatly. That is obvious.

donKey jote

10th June 2007, 17:44

If Ralf's name were Ralf Smith, do you think he would have made it to Formula 1 ? :p :

jens

10th June 2007, 18:53

If Ralf's name were Ralf Smith, do you think he would have made it to Formula 1 ? :p :

Of course it would have been harder, but I can't find any reason, why he shouldn't have - before this season he has always proved to be good enough at least to be F1 driver.

Ian McC

10th June 2007, 19:54

Ralf really has the worst job in F1 - his bro is the all time best driver, so the many jealous losers who hate MS, but dont have any way of bashing him because of his immense achievements, unleash all that vitriol and venom on Ralf. He is an easy target.

Rubbish, this is someone who is payed a lot of money and doesn't perform, nothing to do with his name.

rohanweb

10th June 2007, 21:24

I fully agree with Ian_McC !

Ralf probably too over rated & over paid by Toyota, perhaps they should look to cheery pick some good drivers from other championships like GP2... like LH ,good rookies can turnaround things for Toyota with no silly salaries though.

cy bais

11th June 2007, 06:20

much like in American Football or any other sports where teams that are out of contention by mid-season bench their starting player(s) just to see what the rookies can do out there. Toyota should do that and see if a new driver can inject some fresh air into the team. Just a thought. :)

Cy

ArrowsFA1

13th June 2007, 12:31

Toyota's future team boss has urged Ralf Schumacher to improve his form, after admitting that the outfit are considering replacing him with a youngster next year.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59717

ioan

13th June 2007, 12:36

trumperZ06

13th June 2007, 16:37

Would like to know what he means with this:

<<"But Jarno (Trulli) and Ralf push themselves, and the combination of our driver's mindset and spirit, and the set-up of our car, has not combined well.">>

Maybe that their car is pants?

;) Hhmmmm.... MAYBE...

Toyota Management made a very wise decision when choosing Jarno & Ralfie as the drivers for the team's Formula 1 vechicles.

Unfortunately, due to NO FAULT of top level Toyota personel, the drivers are proving to be unfit to drive our very special F-1 cars !!!

ioan

13th June 2007, 16:47

;) Hhmmmm.... MAYBE...

Toyota Management made a very wise decision when choosing Jarno & Ralfie as the drivers for the team's Formula 1 vechicles.

Unfortunately, do to NO FAULT of top level Toyota personel, the drivers are proving to be unfit to drive our very special F-1 cars !!!

;) :laugh:

edv

13th June 2007, 17:06

Valve Bounce

14th June 2007, 03:53

;) :laugh:

:D :D :rotflmao:

Valve Bounce

14th June 2007, 03:57

Similar story on TSN has potential replacements for Ralf next year:
Nick Heidfeld
Sutil
T Sato

Wouldn't it be funny if Sato drives for an improved Toyota team next year and continues to outclass the works Honda team?

I really cannot see Taku driving for Toyota. Sato is a Honda man, and has been from way back; when they fired him from Team Honda, they even had to start up a new team to give him a drive the following year. Somebody mentioned that Taku is more popular than Honda in Japan, and I quite believe that.

Besides, Taku is in a better team than Toyota now, and next year, they can get hold of the full factory Honda cars if they are any good (or survive on this year's second hand Hondas :p : )

aryan

14th June 2007, 12:16

Similar story on TSN has potential replacements for Ralf next year:
Nick Heidfeld
Sutil
T Sato

Agree with Valve on this. Takuma Sato has been a Honda man for a very long time now. They freaking created a new team for him when they had to drop him in 2005. I don't see him leaving Honda family soon. Specially considering that if not for 2008, but he has a real chance of getting back to works honda team in 2009, though he will be 32 by then.

Not to forget that the Japanese are still considered more loyal to their employers than most westerners; and Toyota and Honda are arch rivals there.

Sutil and Hiedfield are both options. Sutil has a long-term contract with Spyker, so they have to buy his contract, which they can. I don't think SPyker is in any financial position to haggle too much over the price. Hiedfield probably prefers to stay in BMW but might use Toyota negotiations to increase his price.

ioan

14th June 2007, 12:22

Hiedfield probably prefers to stay in BMW but might use Toyota negotiations to increase his price.

You're right, he knows that BMW are heading in the right direction while Toyota will sack him if "the combination of our driver's mindset and spirit, and the set-up of our car, has not combined well." !

Valve Bounce

14th June 2007, 13:58

The only people who would want to be intreested in Toyota are those who are a couple of years from retirement and need to top up their superannuation.

aryan

14th June 2007, 16:55

need to top up their superannuation.

That's pension fund, for all you non-Aussies out there! ;)

ArrowsFA1

14th June 2007, 17:48

According to Matt Bishop (he of F1 Racing) Toyota can release Ralf (on full pay) after the US GP if he hasn't scored the number of points specified in his contract.

Time will tell...

Narr

14th June 2007, 18:01

The "never a good driver" is yet to be beaten by his teammate - He equalled Fisi, and the supposed new Senna. Beat the British hero Button. Is equal to Trulli. Ralf is a good driver, not as good as his bro obviously, but deserving of a seat in F1 still.

Indeed, the press hates Ralf, and bashes him every way possible. It seems facts dont matter to them, only bashing bashing.

Oh, its windsors writing. Windsor=serious case of oral diarrhoea

Strange you think Ralf equalled Fisi and Juan; Fisi beat him by a good margin in their first year and apart from beating Juan in the first year at Williams in every subsequent Ralf was beaten; 2003 and 2004 he was thrashed and gave the sort of lacklustre performances that have typified his F1 career.

Dave B

14th June 2007, 18:30

According to Matt Bishop (he of F1 Racing) Toyota can release Ralf (on full pay) after the US GP if he hasn't scored the number of points specified in his contract.

Time will tell...
Matt Bishop, eh? He's hardly ever wrong... :s

Flat.tyres

14th June 2007, 18:47

Matt Bishop, eh? He's hardly ever wrong... :s

ha, ha :laugh: Old Bash being right just once would amaze me.

jens

14th June 2007, 23:37

The main question now is that whether that US Grand Prix will be the last F1 race for Ralfie? It certainly won't be easy for him to convince team bosses on that circuit. Yes true, Ralf has never scored a single point at Indianapolis! He has been pretty quick (in 2000 was second before car broke down, 2003 was leading before going off and in 2006 ran 5th...), but always has fallen into some kind of a trouble. Some of those have been his own mistakes too.

On the contrary Jarno has been brilliant at Indy, having always finished either 4th or 5th (even that for once) if he hadn't retired. Two of those 4th places have been achieved after starting from the pitlane. It would be extremly tough for him to repeat such results in current Toyota, so he has to hope for retirements as we have had plenty of those in the last years at Indy.

ArrowsFA1

15th June 2007, 09:56

Matt Bishop, eh? He's hardly ever wrong... :s
:laugh:

It's all whispers and rumours anyway :dozey:

Garry Walker

15th June 2007, 10:33

Strange you think Ralf equalled Fisi and Juan; Fisi beat him by a good margin in their first year If you looked at races, then you would realize that wasnt the case. Fisi was a little bit better, but it was his second season aswell. So pretty much equal.

and apart from beating Juan in the first year at Williams in every subsequent Ralf was beaten; 2003 and 2004 he was thrashed and gave the sort of lacklustre performances that have typified his F1 career.
Another one. Geez. Do we really have to go through this again? But I gladly will :D
Ralf outqualifed JPM in their time-together at Williams.
In 2004 he missed most of the season, due to this very little thing, oh what was it? hmm a CONCUSSION and damaged vertebrae.
He was also forced to miss a race in 2003 due to a head injury.

At least in 2002 and 2003 he was at least as impressive as JPM, very often being the more impressive out of those 2. But why let facts bother you, Ralf bashers have never cared about that before.

Garry Walker

15th June 2007, 10:38

oh and there is speculation that the reason Ralf is struggling in qualifyings so far is the due to him not managing to get the tyres warm enough for one lap, he needs 4-5 laps, but by then the grip isnt the same anymore.

Dave B

15th June 2007, 11:25

Narr

16th June 2007, 12:33

If you looked at races, then you would realize that wasnt the case. Fisi was a little bit better, but it was his second season aswell. So pretty much equal.

Another one. Geez. Do we really have to go through this again? But I gladly will :D
Ralf outqualifed JPM in their time-together at Williams.
In 2004 he missed most of the season, due to this very little thing, oh what was it? hmm a CONCUSSION and damaged vertebrae.
He was also forced to miss a race in 2003 due to a head injury.

At least in 2002 and 2003 he was at least as impressive as JPM, very often being the more impressive out of those 2. But why let facts bother you, Ralf bashers have never cared about that before.

So what you're saying is that Ralf is a better driver but just can't keep the car on the road? :p

Garry Walker

16th June 2007, 13:48

I've posted this before, but I reckon the difference between Ralf and his brother can be summed up in the dying moments of Monaco 2006.

Michael was on a mission trying to salvage points after his qualifying faux pas, Ralf was cruising round in the minor points positions.

In the last few yards of the last lap, Michael tried a slightly desperate move on Ralf which didn't come off but saw the Toyota suddenly twitch off line.

Afterwards Ralf said he felt the move was dangerous because "as far as I was concerned the race was over".

That's his attitude: he was cruising, he was half asleep and not paying attention. His big brother, on the other hand, knew that even one point was worth fighting for.
There is no reason comparing Michael with other drivers. It will only result in the other driver looking like a fool. Now compare Ralf to all other drivers - Lets take Kimi for example. Why was he sitting behind other drivers for 70 laps and didnt attempt one passing move on anyone at Monaco? Should he be fired too?
Michael is a one of a kind.

So what you're saying is that Ralf is a better driver but just can't keep the car on the road? :p

Yeah, because a driver mistake is precisely the reason he crashed at Indy in 2004 :monkeedan

jens

16th June 2007, 20:42

Ralf didn't do too badly at Indy qualifying, this time he was definetely closer to JT than he has been in the previous 4 qualis.

ioan

16th June 2007, 22:37

Narr

17th June 2007, 00:05

There is no reason comparing Michael with other drivers. It will only result in the other driver looking like a fool. Now compare Ralf to all other drivers - Lets take Kimi for example. Why was he sitting behind other drivers for 70 laps and didnt attempt one passing move on anyone at Monaco? Should he be fired too?
Michael is a one of a kind.

Yeah, because a driver mistake is precisely the reason he crashed at Indy in 2004 :monkeedan

No it's the reason he had to reverse at Monaco, why he sat behind his brother in Canada and why he seems to have a big issue with spatial awareness and understanding other drivers are around (before he bumps into them) :)

Ranger

18th June 2007, 10:54

I'm sure that performance didn't cut the mustard with the Toyota bosses.

jens

18th June 2007, 12:06

If Toyota decides to replace Ralf mid-season, then I hope Vettel or Sutil gets a chance to prove himself in that team for the rest of this year.

osg

18th June 2007, 12:16

Ralf.........say bye bye now. I'm expecting an announcement before Magny Cours TBH.

Flat.tyres

18th June 2007, 12:31

it was funny in the interview where he tried to put some of the blame on DC for being in the way. :laugh:

bye ralfie.

jens

18th June 2007, 12:49

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070618000147.shtml

It looks like Ralf has been given a few more chances.

Valve Bounce

18th June 2007, 12:53

I never really thought that Toyota would have the balls to fire a Schumacher.

ArrowsFA1

18th June 2007, 12:58

It looks like Ralf has been given a few more chances.
That reads a bit like a football team owner giving the dreaded vote of confidence to the beleagured team manager :grenade:

osg

18th June 2007, 13:01

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070618000147.shtml

It looks like Ralf has been given a few more chances.

Hmmmmm..... very lucky man. He won't last the season though. If he does, Toyota have lost every last ounce of minimal respect they had.

Garry Walker

18th June 2007, 13:10

No it's the reason he had to reverse at Monaco, why he sat behind his brother in Canada and why he seems to have a big issue with spatial awareness and understanding other drivers are around (before he bumps into them) :)

Yeah, Ralf is the only driver to make mistakes. What about Alonso going off in the same corner 4 times at Canada, then being unable to overtake Schumi at imola 2006 when he had a MUCH MUCH faster car. It is not so easy to overtake, as witnessed by Kimi many times this season. And when Kimi couldnt overtake other drivers, its even harder to overtake someone like Schumi who doesnt make mistakes under pressure and is generally a very agressive driver, therefore hard to overtake. Oh and how did Montoya in the same race do? Why didnt he overtake anyone?

Your "reasoning" has failed

If he does, Toyota have lost every last ounce of minimal respect they had.

Considering the importance your respect has to the Toyota, I can see them firing Ralf already today :D

Look dude, Toyota hasnt gone anyone better to give the seat to and Ralf is pretty much on Trullis pace, who isnt exactly a slow driver. I didnt see you calling for Trullis dumping after he crashed out at Canada when coming out of the pits. Besides that, there are quite many drivers out there who are doing far worse than Ralf and again, I dont see you calling for the dumping of them.
But I will go along with you - lets say Toyota decides to fire Ralf. Who will they give the seat to? Give me a good concrete name, someone who is available and doesnt need to be bought out of a contract at considerable expense. Remember, Toyota would have to still pay Ralf.

osg

18th June 2007, 13:30

Yeah, Ralf is the only driver to make mistakes. What about Alonso going off in the same corner 4 times at Canada, then being unable to overtake Schumi at imola 2006 when he had a MUCH MUCH faster car. It is not so easy to overtake, as witnessed by Kimi many times this season. And when Kimi couldnt overtake other drivers, its even harder to overtake someone like Schumi who doesnt make mistakes under pressure and is generally a very agressive driver, therefore hard to overtake. Oh and how did Montoya in the same race do? Why didnt he overtake anyone?

Your "reasoning" has failed

Considering the importance your respect has to the Toyota, I can see them firing Ralf already today :D

Look dude, Toyota hasnt gone anyone better to give the seat to and Ralf is pretty much on Trullis pace, who isnt exactly a slow driver. I didnt see you calling for Trullis dumping after he crashed out at Canada when coming out of the pits. Besides that, there are quite many drivers out there who are doing far worse than Ralf and again, I dont see you calling for the dumping of them.
But I will go along with you - lets say Toyota decides to fire Ralf. Who will they give the seat to? Give me a good concrete name, someone who is available and doesnt need to be bought out of a contract at considerable expense. Remember, Toyota would have to still pay Ralf.

Excluding drivers, the reasons for getting Ralf out of there are simple. there are approximately 33 million of them. For that money alone i'd want him in the car or at the factory every day when he's not racing, and when he is i would have expected by now many many podiums, with the odd shot at a win....... what have Toyota got for their considerable investment?

3 podiums (1 in the last 18 months)....... thats it.

Seriously, give the seat to any of the frequent test drivers, and others out there in other open wheel series around the world........... they couldn't do any worse, and would save a truckload of $$ at the same time for the next big name that becomes available.

He should have retired after the Indy accident of '04...... he's never been the same since that day, and i don't think that would be any different for any other driver in the paddock if they had that sort of accident.

aryan

18th June 2007, 13:39

Yes... the name Schumacher still has resonance.

Even the commentators at Network Ten down under where saying that Ralf is a big name and it just isn't to fire him mid-season.

But so was JPM... Now you might see the difference between successful teams an also-rans: the ability to take tough decisions.

jens

18th June 2007, 13:42

He should have retired after the Indy accident of '04...... he's never been the same since that day, and i don't think that would be any different for any other driver in the paddock if they had that sort of accident.

Actually I'm not sure about that one. After his comeback he put in two magnificient efforts in a row (in China and Japan '04) and Toyota's machinery has been weaker than Williams's, which has made him to look weaker. Probably in 2007 he hasn't been as good as he was in 2005 or 2006, but I think in the last two years he wasn't worse than during his Williams days.

ShiftingGears

18th June 2007, 13:45

Well, this race was embarrassing for Ralf wasnt it?

osg

18th June 2007, 13:46

Actually I'm not sure about that one. After his comeback he put in two magnificient efforts in a row (in China and Japan '04) and Toyota's machinery has been weaker than Williams's, which has made him to look weaker. Probably in 2007 he hasn't been as good as he was in 2005 or 2006, but I think in the last two years he wasn't worse than during his Williams days.

fair points jen, i guess i'm just intrigued as to why a driver with his experience hasn't managed to coax more out of the car...... after all Toyota have a bottomless pit of $$$.

ShiftingGears

18th June 2007, 13:48

Money alone doesn't make the car good.

osg

18th June 2007, 13:49

Money alone doesn't make the car good.

exactly. hence my queries on ralf and his development abilities.

Narr

18th June 2007, 13:55

Garry Walker

18th June 2007, 13:56

Excluding drivers, the reasons for getting Ralf out of there are simple. there are approximately 33 million of them. Actually his salary is around 15 million euros. But you do realize that if you fired Ralf, you still would need to PAY him the salary?

For that money alone i'd want him in the car or at the factory every day when he's not racing,oh my. Tell me what would he do there? How could he help? As far as I know, he doesnt have a degree in engineering (You cant imagine how hard it was for me to resist making a good joke here, but because arrows would just give me a warning for it, I will not write it)

and when he is i would have expected by now many many podiums, with the odd shot at a win.......
With the Toyota car? are you actually serious or are you trolling? he would have to drive it 1 seconds per lap faster than anyone else in world could to make it a podium car. So what you are saying is impossible in modern F1. You can only get a podium in a normal race with a car that is capable of the podium. Toyota isnt.

what have Toyota got for their considerable investment?
Ralf has beaten his teammate 2 years in row. Thats all you can ask him to do, considering what a failure the car has been.

3 podiums (1 in the last 18 months)....... thats it.
And that is the fault of Ralf only, nothing to do with the fact that Toyotas engine is lacking HP, their aero seems to be designed by 6 year old kid and the politics from Japanese headquarters are creating problems?

Seriously, give the seat to any of the frequent test drivers Montagny? Who? Those drivers are all failures compared to Ralf and far slower. So replacing Ralf with someone like Montagny would be like selling your Coca-Cola or Berkshire Hathaway stock to buy stock in Enron

and others out there in other open wheel series around the world........... Give me names who would do better than Ralf. Because if you seriously think that putting a rookie in the car without any experience and that he would do better than Ralf (who is as fast as his teammate in races), well... lets put it this way, it isnt a statement most people would consider serious.

they couldn't do any worse They would do far worse.

and would save a truckload of $$ at the same time for the next big name that becomes available.
Newsflash: The really big names wont come to Toyota, because this team is ruined by politics and incompetence from the management. It would be a waste of career, just like JV wasted his career when he went to the BAR team.
Oh and how would it save money if you still had to pay Ralf all of his salary and would have to pay the new driver his salary too? Explain that oh wise one.

He should have retired after the Indy accident of '04...... he's never been the same since that day, and i don't think that would be any different for any other driver in the paddock if they had that sort of accident.

Yeah, Ralf sucks since 2004, thats why he only has beaten Trulli 2 years in row, you know Trulli - the guy who outpointed the by now 2 times world champion Fernando Alonso at Renault? Damn that Ralf.

jens

18th June 2007, 13:59

About car development abilities. Well, I have heard that Räikkönen, Montoya and Villeneuve may be a bit lazy or whatever, but I have yet to hear that RS (and JT, as some suppose) are poor test drivers. I remember that in 2004, when Ralf was injured, Williams missed his input to the car and the team struggled, being lucky to get into the points at some events.

Toyota is in a similar situation as Honda, but I haven't heard anyone suggesting that Jenson and Rubens are awful test drivers and replacing them would be a giant step forward. Why a different opinion about Toyotas?

I agree that Ralf should have been performing better this year and I'm not against replacing him, provided Toyota can find a better driver, but I really can't find a reason to criticize his testing.

Garry Walker

18th June 2007, 14:04

exactly. hence my queries on ralf and his development abilities.

Williams rated Ralfs technical ability greatly, in fact Patrick Head was very sad to see Ralf go.
I remember back at Monza 2003 when Montoya lost the race to Schumi, after the race some engineers from Williams claimed that if Ralf had driven in that race, he would have helped with the setup and they would have won the race for sure.

Ralf is very good at developing and setting up the car.

Reasoning? JPM was told to wait until Ralf was past to avoid any contact. Patrick Head was furious with Ralf after the race.

I can't see why you're defending Ralf so much, he's put in some great races but, as if to prove my point, in the US he caused a completely avoidable accident. He's great from the front in the best car but put him midpack and he's a liablility.

Remember, after the race it also became obvious that Ralf too had brake problems, as did his brother. Maybe you wish that Ralf had tried a kamikaze move on his brother (the hardest racer in F1 to overtake) and taken him out, montoya-style, but most racers prefer not to do something stupid like that. It simply isnt easy to pass in F1, that is something FIA officials need to deal with, but they are completely incompetent about it.

I am defending him not because I like him, I actually dont. I think he seems the type of guy who I would hate in real life if I knew him. But the bashing he is getting here is getting ridicolous, people are spitting such venom against him that it really beggars belief. That has been the case since ages ago already. Now he is going through a bad time and the venom has increased, but Ralf will hopefully get over it and just to spite the bashers I hope Toyota extends his contract.

Garry Walker

18th June 2007, 14:07

About car development abilities. Well, I have heard that Räikkönen, Montoya and Villeneuve may be a bit lazy or whatever, but I have yet to hear that RS (and JT, as some suppose) are poor test drivers. I remember that in 2004, when Ralf was injured, Williams missed his input to the car and the team struggled, being lucky to get into the points at some events.
How dare you bring logic against the bashers!!! :D

Toyota is in a similar situation as Honda, but I haven't heard anyone suggesting that Jenson and Rubens are awful test drivers and replacing them would be a giant step forward. Why a different opinion about Toyotas?
Button and Barrichello dont have the name "schumacher" and havent been teammates to the new senna. Thats why there are still many people very angry at Ralf and using every opportunity to bash him.

I agree that Ralf should have been performing better this year and I'm not against replacing him, provided Toyota can find a better driver, but I really can't find a reason to criticize his testing.
I agree. The problem is there isnt anyone better than Ralf who is available.

ArrowsFA1

18th June 2007, 14:09

...the bashing he is getting here is getting ridicolous...
The repetitive use of familiar suspects being used to bolster Ralf's reputation can get a bit much at times :p : :s mokin:

Ranger

18th June 2007, 14:39

I agree. The problem is there isnt anyone better than Ralf who is available.

They may as well try out a rookie then. Worked for BMW twice in 8 months!

Dazz9908

18th June 2007, 15:56

How much longer can Toyota afford to have this kamikaze barnstormer, can't bet 'em, take them out! , So called driver for.
Ralf, Thanks for time but buddy there's the door.
Goodbye!!

Easy Drifter

18th June 2007, 19:58

Speaking of JV, now that LeMans is over he is available. He He

osg

18th June 2007, 21:30

Actually his salary is around 15 million euros. But you do realize that if you fired Ralf, you still would need to PAY him the salary?

oh my. Tell me what would he do there? How could he help? As far as I know, he doesnt have a degree in engineering (You cant imagine how hard it was for me to resist making a good joke here, but because arrows would just give me a warning for it, I will not write it)

With the Toyota car? are you actually serious or are you trolling? he would have to drive it 1 seconds per lap faster than anyone else in world could to make it a podium car. So what you are saying is impossible in modern F1. You can only get a podium in a normal race with a car that is capable of the podium. Toyota isnt.

Ralf has beaten his teammate 2 years in row. Thats all you can ask him to do, considering what a failure the car has been.

And that is the fault of Ralf only, nothing to do with the fact that Toyotas engine is lacking HP, their aero seems to be designed by 6 year old kid and the politics from Japanese headquarters are creating problems?

Montagny? Who? Those drivers are all failures compared to Ralf and far slower. So replacing Ralf with someone like Montagny would be like selling your Coca-Cola or Berkshire Hathaway stock to buy stock in Enron

Give me names who would do better than Ralf. Because if you seriously think that putting a rookie in the car without any experience and that he would do better than Ralf (who is as fast as his teammate in races), well... lets put it this way, it isnt a statement most people would consider serious.

They would do far worse.

Newsflash: The really big names wont come to Toyota, because this team is ruined by politics and incompetence from the management. It would be a waste of career, just like JV wasted his career when he went to the BAR team.
Oh and how would it save money if you still had to pay Ralf all of his salary and would have to pay the new driver his salary too? Explain that oh wise one.

Yeah, Ralf sucks since 2004, thats why he only has beaten Trulli 2 years in row, you know Trulli - the guy who outpointed the by now 2 times world champion Fernando Alonso at Renault? Damn that Ralf.

wow :eek: calling me a troll after i've been on here for 2 days and call it regarding ralf as i see it? Poor form Gary, and thanks for the warm welcome :rolleyes:

You his media manager?

Gary, sorry if your a big ralf fan, but the fact is he is way way overpaid for the results he has garnered since moving to toyota, irrespective of the inside info you apparently have regarding the politics within the team...... end of story. 15 million euro's is around 24 million aussie dollars, sorry i haven't checked the conversion rate for our $..... still about 20 million more than he is worth at the moment.

trumperZ06

18th June 2007, 21:31

:D Hhmmmm... Does anyone know the brand of car that Juan Pablo drives over at NA$CAR ???

Narr

18th June 2007, 21:42

Williams rated Ralfs technical ability greatly, in fact Patrick Head was very sad to see Ralf go.
I remember back at Monza 2003 when Montoya lost the race to Schumi, after the race some engineers from Williams claimed that if Ralf had driven in that race, he would have helped with the setup and they would have won the race for sure.

Ralf is very good at developing and setting up the car.

Remember, after the race it also became obvious that Ralf too had brake problems, as did his brother. Maybe you wish that Ralf had tried a kamikaze move on his brother (the hardest racer in F1 to overtake) and taken him out, montoya-style, but most racers prefer not to do something stupid like that. It simply isnt easy to pass in F1, that is something FIA officials need to deal with, but they are completely incompetent about it.

I am defending him not because I like him, I actually dont. I think he seems the type of guy who I would hate in real life if I knew him. But the bashing he is getting here is getting ridicolous, people are spitting such venom against him that it really beggars belief. That has been the case since ages ago already. Now he is going through a bad time and the venom has increased, but Ralf will hopefully get over it and just to spite the bashers I hope Toyota extends his contract.

I only remember Michael's brake problems and hence the confusion as to why he couldn't string a move together, at least to try but nothing for all the laps he was behind his brother.

I've already said that on his day he's a great driver (not a racer) but I'm not going to attribute rumours to him just to make him look better; on current form he shouldn't be driving next year.

truefan72

18th June 2007, 22:40

wow :eek: calling me a troll after i've been on here for 2 days and call it regarding ralf as i see it? Poor form Gary, and thanks for the warm welcome :rolleyes:

You his media manager?

Gary, sorry if your a big ralf fan, but the fact is he is way way overpaid for the results he has garnered since moving to toyota, irrespective of the inside info you apparently have regarding the politics within the team...... end of story. 15 million euro's is around 24 million aussie dollars, sorry i haven't checked the conversion rate for our $..... still about 20 million more than he is worth at the moment.

I don't think Gary has any inside info, just defending probably his favorite driver. But a nasty thing of reality gets in the way...unless he wants to be a contrarian.

I used to like prost but knew when his days were numbered, same for Berger, same for a few other drivers.

Actually, his Brother MS is the only guy in recent hostory That I think could have race on for about another 2 years or so. But Ferrari Pressure and relunctantly going out on top might have played a big role in his decision to retire.

As for RS, tyhey would buy out his cotnract, but never pay him the entrie balance of the remaining salary. He has baiscally stolen money from Toyota these past few years. And Toyota were foolish enought to fashion that ludicrous contract in the first place. If he was making about $5 mill a year the complaints might be less, but the sebntiment regarding his ouster wiould be the same. It is down to a pure performance issue and he isn't measuring up at all.

William Hunt

19th June 2007, 22:08

The latest rumour that's going round is that Franck Montagny would take over from France and that they are talking with Christian Klien for 2008. With Heidfeld, Sato, Nakajima, Liuzzi, Sutil, Glock and possibly others that have all been linked to Ralf's seat over the past weeks I guess we will have to wait and see. But smoke usually means there is a fire. I personally doubt that Ralf will be still at Toyota after the summer.

Wilderness

19th June 2007, 22:13

^^^^
Wow, There's a name from the past!

William Hunt

19th June 2007, 22:16

^^^^
Wow, There's a name from the past!

Yes I haven't been on the forum for quite a while, been too busy with work and also posting on the tennis forum but I never stopped following autosport off course.

rlenis

19th June 2007, 22:28

jens

20th June 2007, 12:58

Christian Klien for 2008? :s Sorry, can't see that guy being better than Ralf and I doubt that he is even on the same level.

I hope that the final conclusion, who would be #2 driver in 2008, will be made between Rosberg (although I doubt he'll want to move to Toyota unless they start some rapid progress up through the field), Sutil and Vettel (if he can't get into Red Bull or any other better team). The last two ones should be bought out of contract, so I guess that's why Toyota seriously hesitates hiring them already in mid-2007 (sacking Ralf would be more expensive than keeping him).

Garry Walker

20th June 2007, 14:05

Gary, sorry if your a big ralf fan, as I have said already, Im not even his fan.

but the fact is he is way way overpaid for the results he has garnered since moving to toyota, you have decided not to answer any of the points I made in reply to your earlier posts. That means you have no argument, no case, nothing.

irrespective of the inside info you apparently have regarding the politics within the team...... end of story.It is public info that Toyota has problems with management, everyone knows it, except you apparently. It is also painfully to obvious to even the dumbest people that the toyota car is a dog.

on current form he shouldn't be driving next year.

Yes, he should be. There are far worse drivers.

ioan

20th June 2007, 14:34

I see you are new. Take my advice , reasoning with this Gary character is pointless. The guy is a nutcase.

And I was thinking that personal attacks were banned around here! :rolleyes:

ioan

20th June 2007, 14:37

The repetitive use of familiar suspects being used to bolster Ralf's reputation can get a bit much at times :p : :s mokin:

The same and more for his detractors (or should I call them simply hater of the Schumacher name?) !!!

Valve Bounce

20th June 2007, 14:48

The way Ralfie has been driving this year, Schumacher or not doesn't come into it. This guy used to win races - but now he appears not to be trying. 5 years ago, I was a big fan of Ralfie, and if someone told me he would be driving like this in 2007, I would have laughed in his face. He just doesn't seem to be motivated anymore.

Flat.tyres

20th June 2007, 14:54

I see you are new. Take my advice , reasoning with this Gary character is pointless. The guy is a nutcase.

BTW, I think Ralf woudl end up in Toro Rosso next year. Just my two cents.

I'll second that OSG. as yopu can see from post 158, he's only interesting in spin and silly courtroom battles.

Basically, I think he's a prick. thats not to say that he is a prick and in no way am I calling him a prick. Those are 2 very different things entirely. my opinion is that he is a prick and I want to state clearly that my opinion is in no way a statement or a slur against his character.

OK Arrows, send them old points over :D

ioan

7th July 2007, 23:24

VkmSpouge

7th July 2007, 23:43

Ralf Schumacher performed well in qualifying today.

Valve Bounce

8th July 2007, 00:29

Looks like he got some motivation, must be that this circuit suits him well! ;)

Yes! he did. Maybe Toyota solved some of their problems which affected the car's handling.

truefan72

8th July 2007, 01:59

He is currently in negotiations with Toyota to remain with them next year. He has offered to drive for $5 million/year to keep his race seat. I am sure that :
a) he is trying to impress them
b) they have told him to prove his worth
c) trying to impress another team that he's still got speed

It is no accident that he has been faster the last two weeks which coincides with the beginning of the real silly season.

Valve Bounce

8th July 2007, 02:12

He is currently in negotiations with Toyota to remain with them next year. He has offered to drive for $5 million/year to keep his race seat. .

LINK PLEASE!!

truefan72

8th July 2007, 02:31

peter windsor of Speed TV reported it during the Quali sessions

Valve Bounce

8th July 2007, 03:10

Sounds like Ralfie is desperate to remain in F1.

ioan

8th July 2007, 11:32

Sounds like Ralfie is desperate to remain in F1.

5 million $! That doesn't seem as desperate for me. If he offered to pay for his drive, that would be desperate, but he doesn't have to do that as long as he can keep Trulli at bay!

Valve Bounce

8th July 2007, 11:57

5 million $! That doesn't seem as desperate for me. If he offered to pay for his drive, that would be desperate, but he doesn't have to do that as long as he can keep Trulli at bay!

Big drop in salary, that. What was he getting before? around twenty? Keeping Jarno at bay is not the problem for Ralfie - keeping some other young gun more likely if Toyota has any sense.

Garry Walker

10th July 2007, 00:58

peter windsor of Speed TV reported it during the Quali sessions

Well, that settles it. When has Windsor ever gotten anything wrong :rotflmao:

I do wonder where Ralf bashers were during the Silverstone weekend. I hope choking on their own venom and vitriol.

trumperZ06

10th July 2007, 02:38

Well, that settles it. When has Windsor ever gotten anything wrong :rotflmao:

I do wonder where Ralf bashers were during the Silverstone weekend. I hope choking on their own venom and vitriol.

:p : Pfffft..... Ralfie's Toast !!!

;) Lets see where Ole Ralfie finishes in drivers points at year end !!!

N. Jones

10th July 2007, 02:45

I hope he is gone too - too much money, not enough talent.

I would like to see Sutil in the Toyota though....

Valve Bounce

10th July 2007, 03:43

I hope he is gone too - too much money, not enough talent.

I would like to see Sutil in the Toyota though....

No!! Wait!! he's offered to drive for a lot less. :p :

N. Jones

10th July 2007, 05:59

LOL. Should Sutil underbid?
Maybe he can pull a bridge move and double his bid? :D

Valve Bounce

10th July 2007, 06:32

LOL. Should Sutil underbid?
Maybe he can pull a bridge move and double his bid? :D

I'm sure that Adrian Sutil is the much hungrier driver and he'd do just about anything to get into a better car than that Spyker. However, who know how the Toyota Brains Trust runs?

ioan

10th July 2007, 11:06

I'm sure that Adrian Sutil is the much hungrier driver and he'd do just about anything to get into a better car than that Spyker. However, who know how the Toyota Brains Trust runs?

Who says that the Toyota will be much better than the Spyker next season? :D

Valve Bounce

10th July 2007, 11:08

Who says that the Toyota will be much better than the Spyker next season? :D

I did :(

Flat.tyres

10th July 2007, 11:18

Who says that the Toyota will be much better than the Spyker next season? :D

:laugh: youve got a point there.

N. Jones

10th July 2007, 16:42

Well - the Toyota has out qualified the Spyker this year. I can only guess that will continue to happen.
There has to be some driver out there that can turn Toyota's fortunes around!

Easy Drifter

10th July 2007, 17:28

Albers in exchange for Ralfie!

N. Jones

10th July 2007, 18:21

I would LOVE to see that! :D

Big Ben

10th July 2007, 20:32

Some local F1 "expert" said that RS is not a f1 driver but the brother of a f1 driver... I wouldn't go so far but I still don't understand what's with all the fuss... I for one don't give a $h!t if he goes or stays

truefan72

11th July 2007, 00:54

It would be nice to see Sutil drive a Toyota. He is my pick for best up and comer even more so than Vettel. There is something about his driving style that looks like he would do well.

Also, Scott Speed might be a likely candidate for Toyota. His driving style is well suited to the Car. Fast and a little edgy. The car is too tame under the Ralf and Jarno, it needs to be pushed a bit. When they do push it, they seem to get more out of it.

N. Jones

11th July 2007, 03:02

That's Jarno and Ralf for ya - now enough aggressiveness. They need some young blood. I think if Sutil or Speed were to sign with Toyota they may push Jarno to be a better driver much like Kubica is doing with Heidfeld...

Valve Bounce

11th July 2007, 05:42

Well yeah!! a Sutil with speed would definitely push Jarno to greater efforts. :p :

pino

11th July 2007, 07:33

Ok Jarno and Ralph are not in the same level as Kimi, Massa, Alonso, Lewis and Kubica but believe me, the problem is the car...the problem is the car...the problem is the car, capisc ? ;)

Valve Bounce

11th July 2007, 08:09

That's not fair, pino. Ralfie has won several GP's whereas Kubica hasn't. Also, Ralfie has won more races than Lewis H.
I think we should wait until Ron gives Ralfie a test drive, don't you?

pino

11th July 2007, 08:22

That's not fair, pino. Ralfie has won several GP's whereas Kubica hasn't. Also, Ralfie has won more races than Lewis H.
I think we should wait until Ron gives Ralfie a test drive, don't you?

I am talking about talent, and I think these 4 I've mentioned have more talent than both Ralph and Jarno.But I still think in pure speed Jarno is on pace with everyone, dunno about Ralph :p : anyway the problem still is the car...capisc ;)

ioan

11th July 2007, 09:50

But I still think in pure speed Jarno is on pace with everyone, dunno about Ralph :p :

Ralf was handling Jarno very well in the last qualy session! ;)

Ranger

11th July 2007, 10:43

Ralf was handling Jarno very well in the last qualy session! ;)

That makes Ralf faster than EVERYBODY. :eek: :p :

This thread title is now silly... as everyone thought Ralf would be out by France, it is obvious that his career has become longer than expected!

Valve Bounce

11th July 2007, 11:08

I am talking about talent, and I think these 4 I've mentioned have more talent than both Ralph and Jarno.But I still think in pure speed Jarno is on pace with everyone, dunno about Ralph :p : anyway the problem still is the car...capisc ;)

Well yeah!! put Ralfie in the Ferrari and he might be a winner.

Valve Bounce

11th July 2007, 11:10

That makes Ralf faster than EVERYBODY. :eek: :p :

This thread title is now silly... as everyone thought Ralf would be out by France, it is obvious that his career has become longer than expected!

Well yeah!! he offered to drive for a helluva lot less, didn't he!

pino

11th July 2007, 11:30

Well yeah!! put Ralfie in the Ferrari and he might be a winner.

I was talking about Jarno...not Ralph :p :

Valve Bounce

11th July 2007, 11:45

PLease check the title of this thread and let's keep the discussion on Ralfie, like on topic :p :

Garry Walker

11th July 2007, 14:34

I think if Sutil or Speed were to sign with Toyota they may push Jarno to be a better driver much like Kubica is doing with Heidfeld...

LOL. Jarno would have loads of fun with Sutil (guy who has gotten outqualified by ALBERS), Speed is a nowhere near Ralfs quality either.

It would be nice to see Sutil drive a Toyota. He is my pick for best up and comer even more so than Vettel. There is something about his driving style that looks like he would do well.

Also, Scott Speed might be a likely candidate for Toyota. His driving style is well suited to the Car. Fast and a little edgy. The car is too tame under the Ralf and Jarno, it needs to be pushed a bit. When they do push it, they seem to get more out of it.

Are you Peter Windsor?

N. Jones

11th July 2007, 16:39

Plain and simple - Ralf needs to go. Toyota needs something to turn their fortunes around....

ioan

11th July 2007, 17:40

Plain and simple - Ralf needs to go. Toyota needs something to turn their fortunes around....

A good management structure and better engineers would help them most.
And to be fair I fail to see why you hate Ralf so much. Did he run over your chihuahua or something?!

N. Jones

11th July 2007, 17:47

I don't hate him. He has been overpayed ever since he signed with Williams. While I commend him for using his name to score a big payday he has never justified his salary.

I think had he won in Japan & Belgium in '05 things might have been different (my reasoning - Ralf was quickly catching up to the McLarens at Spa until the team put dries on too soon. He was also flying in Japan until the safety car came out. Ok, maybe he wouldn't of won in Japan but I think he definitely would have at Spa).

I also believe that his two crashes at Indy adversely affected him.

N. Jones

11th July 2007, 17:48

Oh, and just for you ioan - it's Michael Chewbacca I hate. I am more of a Ferrari fan now that he is gone! :D

ioan

11th July 2007, 19:58

Oh, and just for you ioan - it's Michael Chewbacca I hate.

I thought so.

N. Jones

11th July 2007, 20:33

Well yeah!! a Sutil with speed would definitely push Jarno to greater efforts. :p :

LOL!

N. Jones

11th July 2007, 20:33

I thought so.

:D

How do you people quote more than one post? That one stumps me...

msaxman

11th July 2007, 22:22

pino

11th July 2007, 22:25

:D

How do you people quote more than one post? That one stumps me...

Just klick on the box next to quote ;)

jens

13th July 2007, 20:19

trumperZ06

13th July 2007, 21:11

Let's take it from another angle. Some people say that if Toyota had different drivers, they would be on top. But... maybe if they had different drivers, they would be as low as Honda? For some reason many people think that Honda is more talented than Toyota - but how and why are they behind Toyota then if they have better drivers and a better team? - that's a contradiction. :p :

:D That's the $64,000 question !!!

Thru-out the years... Honda's been a much stronger racing organization than Toyota!

Both Japanese manufacturers have spent tons of $$$ MONEY $$$ in F-1, with not much to show for their investments.

How much longer will these two companies continue in F-1, seeing their products running in the rear of the pack?

Ian McC

14th July 2007, 10:09

Let's take it from another angle. Some people say that if Toyota had different drivers, they would be on top. But... maybe if they had different drivers, they would be as low as Honda? For some reason many people think that Honda is more talented than Toyota - but how and why are they behind Toyota then if they have better drivers and a better team? - that's a contradiction. :p :

Really, how much of a hand does a driver have on the development of the car? Certainly they will know how the car should feel and suggest changes but by this point the car has already been made, the blame for the fact that the car is bad goes down to designers and engineers, it's all done on computers and in wind tunnels.

I certainly wouldn't blame Ralf for that, just for not getting the best out of the car he has.

COD

15th July 2007, 22:34

If I was a Toyota boss, I would have fired Ralf many races ago. It must come sooner rather than later.

ioan

16th July 2007, 00:21

If I was a Toyota boss, I would have fired Ralf many races ago. It must come sooner rather than later.

Luckily you are not the Toyota boss.

jens

24th July 2007, 22:37

I think that in the light of recent performances (where Ralf has again shown motivation to continue his F1 career) the chances that Ralf's career might last longer than expected are getting bigger - it means a contract with Toyota or Toro Rosso for next year.

Easy Drifter

24th July 2007, 22:46

Ralf always seems to come to life when his job is under threat. Sooner or later that will not work.

ArrowsFA1

21st August 2007, 10:15

Dave B

21st August 2007, 10:26

Flat.tyres

21st August 2007, 10:56

I'll have a read next time I'm in Sainsburys. I'm afraid that F1 Racing has become such a joke that I refuse to pay money for it any more. It used to be a decent enough magazine, nowadays it's just a container into which Bishop and Peter Windsor place their respective egos.

sorry to disagree Dave but thats grossly inaccurate.

they couldn't get both ego's into one magazine and they often spill out into outher media as a consequence :D

unendos

21st August 2007, 20:51

Has anyone read the profile/interview with Ralf in this month's F1 Racing magazine?

Ralf's performance & salary are criticised yet again, but the worst is saved for last as before agreeing to take part in a photoshoot he apparently asked that the magazine stop being so critical of him. Bishop's response was blunt, he told Ralf to foxtrot oscar. The whole piece effectively says Ralf is not wanted by Toyota, and Bishop is quite clear in saying he hopes they do not re-sign him.

Even as a Ralf critic I cringed a bit when reading the article :eek:

well i guess will have to wait and see if Bishop is right,but i dont see how they can re-sign him because he seems to have left his troubles behind is now @ par with his team mate which means @ the moment that toyota does not have anymore to give than whats coming out.

jso1985

21st August 2007, 21:06

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/article/1187685987/formula_one/F1gossip/Ralf-had-Toro-Rosso-talks-/view.html

if Toro Rosso rejects you, you're either a big idiot and nobody likes you or your career is certainly coming to an end

Roamy

23rd August 2007, 05:07

I am more interested to see who the new driver will be.

Hondo

23rd August 2007, 11:56

Possibly Ralf could go to Honda. Since they have returned to F1 they have shown a soft spot in their hearts for over-paid, under-performing drivers.

tinchote

23rd August 2007, 17:56

Jimmy Magnusson

23rd August 2007, 19:19

As far as I can tell, the article doesn't say anything about TR rejecting him.

Probably because the Toyota bosses had their telies on a couple of weeks ago watching the Hungarian GP and saw Ralf's performance. They then said "Ooh, he's actually quite good. Let's sign him for another year, shall we?" to each other.

ioan

23rd August 2007, 20:01

They re-signed Trulli for less than what Ralf managed this season so I don't see why they shouldn't re-sign Ralf.

Chaparral66

24th August 2007, 06:20

I think Ralf should go to Champ Car or follow Juan Pablo Montoya into NASCAR... :D

Jimmy Magnusson

25th August 2007, 03:30

I think Ralf should go to Champ Car or follow Juan Pablo Montoya into NASCAR... :D

Ralf in NASCAR, I'm sure he would fit right in!

Ian McC

25th August 2007, 10:12

Possibly Ralf could go to Honda. Since they have returned to F1 they have shown a soft spot in their hearts for over-paid, under-performing drivers.

There is only one place for Ralfie boy and that's DTM ;)

ArrowsFA1

25th August 2007, 11:09

They re-signed Trulli for less than what Ralf managed this season so I don't see why they shouldn't re-sign Ralf.
So why are Toyota waiting... :confused:

Jimmy Magnusson

25th August 2007, 11:19

So why are Toyota waiting... :confused:

Maybe they doesn't want to pay him as much, but Ralfie doesn't want his salary to go down.

Ian McC

25th August 2007, 13:26

Ralfie doesn't want his salary to go down.

Well once again he hasn't earned it today :rolleyes:

Dave B

25th August 2007, 13:29

Half a second slower than Trulli and out of qualifying after just quarter of an hour. Oh dear, Ralf. Oh dear oh dear.

ioan

25th August 2007, 14:18

So why are Toyota waiting... :confused:

Hoping to get Alonso at the end of this season!
Why else would they wait till the end of the season?

Valve Bounce

25th August 2007, 14:32

Heard a faint rumour that if Alonso leaves McLaren, the bunsen might get the nod from Ron Dennis.

ioan

25th August 2007, 14:34

Heard a faint rumour that if Alonso leaves McLaren, the bunsen might get the nod from Ron Dennis.

He would make a nice little lap dog for Hamilton! :laugh: :D

tinchote

25th August 2007, 15:20

Half a second slower than Trulli and out of qualifying after just quarter of an hour. Oh dear, Ralf. Oh dear oh dear.

Indeed. It would be interesting to see the what they say about it in the Toyota garage.

Roamy

25th August 2007, 16:24

yank this cream puff out of the ride and give it to someone that wants to drive. Enough of this pretty boy crap. Let him buy a ride from spyker

jens

25th August 2007, 16:37

Ralf's performance was very disappointing as it looked liked he had solved the problems that affected his qualis earlier this year. Probably sudden downfalls are still the reason, why Toyota is still thinking. Plus they are also hoping for other options that might become available, although they have just lost one of them - Heidfeld. The issue about Schumacher is not about salary - arguably Ralf is ready to drive for about 5 million $ next year (and that amount of money is most probably smaller than Trulli's salary).

Dave B

25th August 2007, 18:38

yank this cream puff out of the ride and give it to someone that wants to drive. Enough of this pretty boy crap. Let him buy a ride from spyker
It's usually a cold day in hell before I agree with Uncle Fousto, but on this occasion I'll make an exception :p

Hondo

25th August 2007, 21:18

yank this cream puff out of the ride and give it to someone that wants to drive. Enough of this pretty boy crap. Let him buy a ride from spyker

Absolute proof that genetics, having the same name and bloodline, doesn't make a champiomship driver.

ioan

25th August 2007, 21:43

Absolute proof that genetics, having the same name and bloodline, doesn't make a champiomship driver.

Till he has won more races than 90+ % of all the drivers that ever drove in F1! ;)

jso1985

25th August 2007, 21:54

noone is talking about him not being a winning driver ;)

in the end he was one as many championships as the 97% of F1 drivers

ioan

26th August 2007, 00:19

noone is talking about him not being a winning driver ;)

in the end he was one as many championships as the 97% of F1 drivers

As many as KR, JPM, DC, JB and others in the modern era or like Stirling Moss and many other greats! ;)

jens

26th August 2007, 17:17

It still surprises me that why are you talking about Ralf in comparison with absolutely best drivers. He hasn't won titles and so what? What does it prove? That he should have never got a drive in F1? :) (or at least it looks like some tend to think like that)

ioan

26th August 2007, 18:52

People do bash Ralf to get rid of the frustration that Michael made them feel when he trashed their favorite drivers.
What is absolutely incredible that most of this people have favorite drivers that managed to achieve much less than Ralf in F1!

It only shows the level of bias around here. :)

Hondo

26th August 2007, 20:11

Ralf draws it to himself by all the noise he makes. The more you talk, the better you need to be.

ArrowsFA1

27th August 2007, 10:41

People do bash Ralf to...
People criticise Ralf for 1) his inconsistent on-track performances 2) his apparent lack of interest, and 3) the fact that his salary is that of a multiple-WDC.

He has won the same number of races (6) as Tony Brooks, John Surtees, Jochen Rindt, Gilles Villeneuve, Jacques Laffite and Riccardo Patrese did in their careers, and yet his contribution to F1 comes nowhere near any one of those drivers.

The name Schumacher shouldn't allow Ralf to cruise and collect, and it shouldn't protect him from criticism. Unfortunately there are those, including Ralf seemingly, who think it should.

jens

27th August 2007, 11:02

ioan

27th August 2007, 12:25

People criticise Ralf for 1) his inconsistent on-track performances 2) his apparent lack of interest, and 3) the fact that his salary is that of a multiple-WDC.

He has won the same number of races (6) as Tony Brooks, John Surtees, Jochen Rindt, Gilles Villeneuve, Jacques Laffite and Riccardo Patrese did in their careers, and yet his contribution to F1 comes nowhere near any one of those drivers.

The name Schumacher shouldn't allow Ralf to cruise and collect, and it shouldn't protect him from criticism. Unfortunately there are those, including Ralf seemingly, who think it should.

All the bashing, and I maintain the use of this expression is because of his surname, so I fail to see where does his name protect him!

As for saying that Laffite made some exceptional contribution to F1 that Ralf couldn't manage to do...! :rolleyes:

As for his salary I still fail to see why does that bother you! Is that money taken from your own pocket or what? :s

ArrowsFA1

27th August 2007, 12:44

As for his salary I still fail to see why does that bother you! Is that money taken from your own pocket or what? :s
In many ways it doesn't bother me. Good luck to Ralf if teams were willing to pay him that much.

However, in F1 salary indicates more than just having a good manager. Look at the difference between Alonso and Hamilton. They're both winning races for McLaren and leading the championship, but there is a vast difference between their earnings. Why? Because Alonso is 2xWDC and an established winner. Hamilton is not...or at least was not when he signed the contract.

Ralf's earnings are comparable with Alonso's and yet his performaces don't even come close to what Alonso has achieved, and what he brings to a team as a 2xWDC.

I still think Willi Webber 'sold' Toyota a Schumacher without telling them which one :crazy: :p

unendos

27th August 2007, 18:18

One more thing raises questions. Why are in Ralf's case it mentioned that he lacks of interest? I mean if other drivers have struggled, then it has usually been pointed out that they feel uncomfortable with the car, they are still getting used to the machinery/tyres etc, they are just having bad luck etc, etc. Like at the start of this season, when several drivers didn't quite match expectations.

Has someone got evidence that Ralf indeed doesn't care? Maybe he tries as hard as hell, but things just don't quite work out like he wished...

I have actualy noticed something,you know when ralf has had a good race,as is the case with all other F1 drivers that sometimes they have good races and sometimes bad races,no one actually acknowledges him,but one mistake and hate comments fly.