Should Prostitution be legalised?

[speedy king]

With recent events what are your opinions on making prostitution legal in the sense of creating safely lit and supervised areas monitored by CCTV to keep the women safer while still (though people may in their own opinion claim this is not the right way to go) keep money coming in for the girls by having no risk of prosecution for their 'punters'. Taking away the risk of being arrested is the only way they would still get cutsomers in heavily CCTV supervised areas and prevent them from moving in to more dangerous areas.

In this thread i am not saying that i believe the conecept is right, nor wrong, at the end of the day people in that position are in a difficult state and enforcing law simply dosen't work, they have habbits to feed. My opinion is these women should be kept safe, in MOST cases it's not their clients who are the dangers, its the dealers and pimps who are keeping them in their habbits and on the streets. It's the drug dealers and pimps who need coming down on, not the working girls.

In my opinion.

As they say, ....Discuss..

[AndySpeed]

Making it "legal" won't make it any safer. It is, by definition, dangerous.

Then theres the argument of wasting resources, tax payers money etc. by monitoring and supervising something which is only asking for trouble.

[Sleeper]

I dont think it would work all that well, its doubtful that the "clients" would want to be in a heavily surveyed area for the service they are after.

[grassrootsracer]

Here's a related news article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6178793.stm

[Banshee]

Yes it should be legalised. It already is here in NZ. Treating sex workers as criminals just keeps them in danger IMO as they often won't go to the police when they are in trouble.

It will also take alot off the girls off the streets as they will be able to work in legal establishments, not all of them but some will opt for that option.

What needs to happen is that the stigma of Prostitution needs to somehow be dealt with. But legalisation, definately!!

[Rollo]

Since most prostitutes are women and effectively you reduce them to a commodity or chattel, then legalising prostitution is perfectly fine if you arrive at the premise that they aren't worth much (and if you do arrive at that conclusion then you're worse than shizno in my books).
What this does is open up borders using the premise of employment prospects to people trafficking at the experience in Holland already suggests. Legalising prostitution in my opinion is not a good thing because your average woman is far more valuable than that.

Prostitution and Slavery are evils that should be illegal. Nobody's life should be compared to a piece of property under any circumstances.

[tstran17_88]

Making it "legal" won't make it any safer. It is, by definition, dangerous.

Then theres the argument of wasting resources, tax payers money etc. by monitoring and supervising something which is only asking for trouble.

Now, I’ve never been to the state of Nevada, where prostitution is legal outside the city limits of Las Vegas and Reno, but it seems to me that it’s probably 1000 times safer than a street walker in Los Angeles or New York City. And I doubt it is subsidized by the taxpayers of Nevada, outside of maybe the state licensed inspectors? And I would assume part of their salary comes from the fees paid to the state by the brothels.

[Rollo]

Now, I’ve never been to the state of Nevada, where prostitution is legal outside the city limits of Las Vegas and Reno, but it seems to me that it’s probably 1000 times safer than a street walker in Los Angeles or New York City.

That's probably almost entirely due to the prevalence of guns though.

[tstran17_88]

That's probably almost entirely due to the prevalence of guns though.I'm missing your point?

[Banshee]

Prostitution and Slavery are evils that should be illegal. Nobody's life should be compared to a piece of property under any circumstances.

Prostitution and slavery are completly different things. While there are many women (and men) who are forced into prositution through drug addiction etc, some actually see it as a job. Keeping prostitution illegal means that women who work as sex workers do not have rights within the law and that is wrong.

[555-04Q2]

Prostitution has always been around and will always be around no matter our opinions or peoples beliefs/views. By legalising prostitution, you will at least be able to regulate the industry, tax the industry and improve the working conditions for the men and woman that offer services in this industry and decrease the likelyhood of the spread of HIV and STD's. While I am against prostitution, they are just trying to make a living like the rest of us.

[Rollo]

Keeping prostitution illegal means that women who work as sex workers do not have rights within the law and that is wrong.

Er no. People's rights are either protected explicitly via a Bill of Rights in their respective countries or by common law irrespective of their profession.

In practice legalising prostitution has a bad effect. To wit:

I was working in the NSW Supreme Court as a secretary and court officer in 2003 when a minor point in the Crimes Act was changed and prostitution was rendering for all intents and purposes was made legal.
Nice in theory but,

A series of test cases actually made it harder to prove the existance of statutory rape because the very law which was supposed to have given people "rights" as you so eloquently put it, actually meant that that the sex act which previously was illegal was then pushed into the realms of contract law.
The fact that someone had paid for sex legitamised what would have previously been illegal.

People always have the right to dignity and respect. Just because it's possible to do something doesn't necessarily make it good for society or the individual.

[555-04Q2]

Er no. People's rights are either protected explicitly via a Bill of Rights in their respective countries or by common law irrespective of their profession.

In practice legalising prostitution has a bad effect. To wit:

I was working in the NSW Supreme Court as a secretary and court officer in 2003 when a minor point in the Crimes Act was changed and prostitution was rendering for all intents and purposes was made legal.
Nice in theory but,

A series of test cases actually made it harder to prove the existance of statutory rape because the very law which was supposed to have given people "rights" as you so eloquently put it, actually meant that that the sex act which previously was illegal was then pushed into the realms of contract law.
The fact that someone had paid for sex legitamised what would have previously been illegal.

People always have the right to dignity and respect. Just because it's possible to do something doesn't necessarily make it good for society or the individual.

But that problem remains whether it is illegal or legal. Regulating the industry means the "business transation" can take place in a safe environment without fear of a raid from the police and the "workers" can then have a safe place with security personnel etc to watch for abuse/violence during the agreed upon "transactions". This would greatly reduce the risk of abuse to the "worker".

[Banshee]

But that problem remains whether it is illegal or legal. Regulating the industry means the "business transation" can take place in a safe environment without fear of a raid from the police and the "workers" can then have a safe place with security personnel etc to watch for abuse/violence during the agreed upon "transactions". This would greatly reduce the risk of abuse to the "worker".

Well said, that's excatly what I meant, you said it much better than I did :up:

Rollo, obviously you and I see this differently.

[Rollo]

Beacuse I don't think that it's the "punter" who the business owners need protection from but the "business owners" themselves.

Whether the business is legal or illegal then who appoints the security guards to look over the "business owner"? Grant that there may be "workers" who wish to be there but in far too many cases the "workers" are chained to the job by less than fair means.

Hence the main reason why it should be illegal, to give power to the police to check up. In all honesty, I doubt you'd hear of people actually charged with prostitution, but you would end up with chares being laid against "business owners"

[SEATFreak]

Completely agree with everything 555-04QT says.

Prostitutes in Holland are far more respectable than those roaming British streets.

Several years ago I got in contact with the Dutch Grandfather I never knew. Not long ago his old terraced house was demolished but I went over to his for 2 weeks in 1992 and we had to go through a red light district to get back home from the shops. I didn't know this at the time but when we went in I wondered why 2 policemen were stationed at one end of this thoroughfare. It wasn't till I got in I realised it was a red light district. I am a bit shy in real-life but I really didn't look around much because I had no problem with anything and I saw no point treating it with any difference and walk through normally.

But I remember what it was like and I say to myself "what a good idea!". The prostitutes aren't walking around in Reeboks dependant on drugs. They are safe and secure in an enclosed environment which doesn't look any different to any other town street in Holand and transactions between client and prostitute is proper financial business with no scumbags giving them drugs for the money they earned.

[BeansBeansBeans]

It's worth pointing out that street-walkers are only one part of the prostitution business, and those that walk the streets invariably do so out of desperation and addiction. I'm all for legalising brothels, call girls and escorts, as the girls do seem to have some degree of choice, but I'm not comfortable with legalising street prostitution. We'd be better off rounding all these girls up and getting them into rehab. Although I know it's not that simple.

[Rollo]

Hmm, it appears that I'm in a minority here. It's interesting to note though that what once would have been considered to be moral turpitude is now acceptable.

I guess opinions like mine truly don't matter any more.

[555-04Q2]

Hmm, it appears that I'm in a minority here. It's interesting to note though that what once would have been considered to be moral turpitude is now acceptable.

I guess opinions like mine truly don't matter any more.

On the contrary, opinions like yours are very important. I dont agree with prostitution at all, but it is here to stay so why not try and make it safer for all. Just because we cannot see the air we breath does not mean it is not there.

[LotusElise]

I think it's time we ditch the myth that prostitutes "choose" their profession. It is almost always out of desperation of some kind that women turn to selling themselves.
Rollo is absolutely right in my book - allowing women to be thought of as possessions or part of a business transaction fosters exactly the attitude towards them that results in the sort of violence that these unfortunate people face too often.

[555-04Q2]

I think it's time we ditch the myth that prostitutes "choose" their profession. It is almost always out of desperation of some kind that women turn to selling themselves.
Rollo is absolutely right in my book - allowing women to be thought of as possessions or part of a business transaction fosters exactly the attitude towards them that results in the sort of violence that these unfortunate people face too often.

Your taking the side of only one party here as there are plenty of male prostitutes as well. Are they less important than woman :?:

[jim mcglinchey]

Lets get one thing straight from the off, I ve never had to pay for it in my life, however, if there exists a state of affairs where a killer / killers can easily pick defenceless women of the street because of their sorry situation then something needs done. Id be all for the cleaning up and regulating of the business...just so long as there wasnt a knocking shop put in my street.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I think it's time we ditch the myth that prostitutes "choose" their profession. It is almost always out of desperation of some kind that women turn to selling themselves.

I think there are many high-class escorts or call girls that would disagree. They are allowed to vet their clients, they are paid a fortune, and they get involved by choice.

[LotusElise]

I'm not arguing that male prostitutes are less important, 555, far from it. The ones who deal with male clientele especially face very similar dangers and are equally deserving of protection and support in moving away from prostitution.

[LotusElise]

Beans, I respectfully disagree. The "high-class call girl" is largely another myth created by films, TV and books. While I cannot deny that a few exist, from the accounts I have come across, many get into it to deal with debts and other financial difficulties and leave once they've made their money. (I'm thinking of the Belle de Jour books and articles here.)
Behind even the most respectable kinds of prostitution, we also must not forget that there are exploitative pimps and people traffickers.

[555-04Q2]

I'm not arguing that male prostitutes are less important, 555, far from it. The ones who deal with male clientele especially face very similar dangers and are equally deserving of protection and support in moving away from prostitution.

:up:

[harsha]

wouldn't you be encouraging prostitution if you legalise it.....

[555-04Q2]

wouldn't you be encouraging prostitution if you legalise it.....

To a certain extent, yes. But it is never going to go away so maybe it is time to try and regulate the industry for the greater good of the prostitutes and their clientele :?:

[harsha]

the benefits of legalising prostitution.....YES!!! you could slow down AIDS and not to mention ensure the safety of the workers...but you can argue both sides of the coin here....

[555-04Q2]

but you can argue both sides of the coin here....

Thats right. Legalising it has benefits and disadvantages. Keeping it illegal also has its benefits and disadvantages.

The trick is to work out which mix is most beneficial for all parties involved
( the prostitutes, clients, employers and the general public )

[Knock-on]

Is being a prostitute illegal in this country? I didn't think it was but soliciting for business is.

If you offer sex for money in a building with no more than 2 people working there, I thought this was not illegal.

May be wrong though.

So, we have the two different types of trade. One is the women that offer a residential service in a safe environment. I think this is perfectly acceptable and indeed, I lived next door to a very nice Lady who entertained men in this way. I can assure you she wasn't some smacked up bitch but a very pleasant and intelligent Lady that had a regular and loyal group of punters. They were generally men who were in relationships where the physical side had died out but they Loved their partners and wouldn't dream of having an affair but still had needs that couldn't be fulfilled within the bounds of their relationship. I honestly cannot see any harm with this at all and would suggest that more should be done to regulate and recognise this legitimate profession.

The other side of prostitution is the problem.

The abused children on street corners, the smack addicts sucking off some pervert for the money to buy a £10 wrap of heroin. The sex slaves smuggled in from Eastern Europe and imprisoned with no prospect for release, being forced to satisfy up to 20 men a day for the slave masters who sell them.

This trade needs to be stamped out whether it's the grand organised crime rings or a child under a streetlight. There should be zero tolerance on the pimps, the punters and the hookers themselves. Get it off the street and into regulated and safe brothels where it can be controlled.

[SEATFreak]

Thats right. Legalising it has benefits and disadvantages. Keeping it illegal also has its benefits and disadvantages.

The trick is to work out which mix is most beneficial for all parties involved
( the prostitutes, clients, employers and the general public )

How does keeping it illegal have it's benifits?

[speedy king]

Is being a prostitute illegal in this country? I didn't think it was but soliciting for business is.

If you offer sex for money in a building with no more than 2 people working there, I thought this was not illegal.



Yes, sorry you are indeed right on that :)

[555-04Q2]

How does keeping it illegal have it's benifits?

It remains out the general publics eye.

[SEATFreak]

In what way?

[Drew]

If it can make the government extra tax money, I can't see why they wouldn't consider it.

[oily oaf]

Is being a prostitute illegal in this country? I didn't think it was but soliciting for business is.

If you offer sex for money in a building with no more than 2 people working there, I thought this was not illegal.

May be wrong though.

So, we have the two different types of trade. One is the women that offer a residential service in a safe environment. I think this is perfectly acceptable and indeed, I lived next door to a very nice Lady who entertained men in this way. I can assure you she wasn't some smacked up bitch but a very pleasant and intelligent Lady that had a regular and loyal group of punters. They were generally men who were in relationships where the physical side had died out but they Loved their partners and wouldn't dream of having an affair but still had needs that couldn't be fulfilled within the bounds of their relationship. I honestly cannot see any harm with this at all and would suggest that more should be done to regulate and recognise this legitimate profession.

The other side of prostitution is the problem.

The abused children on street corners, the smack addicts sucking off some pervert for the money to buy a £10 wrap of heroin. The sex slaves smuggled in from Eastern Europe and imprisoned with no prospect for release, being forced to satisfy up to 20 men a day for the slave masters who sell them.

This trade needs to be stamped out whether it's the grand organised crime rings or a child under a streetlight. There should be zero tolerance on the pimps, the punters and the hookers themselves. Get it off the street and into regulated and safe brothels where it can be controlled.

Knockie I love it when you talk dirty ;)

A powerfull argument delivered with great passion but no less valid for all that. :up:

[odykas]

Isn't it already legal? http://www.adslgr.com/forum/images/smilies/hmmm.gif

[fandango]

The problem of prostitution is the loss of dignity. It's not a question of what you think of women - it's how they feel about themselves. Some women do it by choice, for others it's not by choice but they can do it, but I seriously doubt that anyone walks the streets by choice.

So I think if it's to be legalised fully, then it has to be to help the ones who want to get out of it to do so while protecting the ones who wish to remain in the game.

The problem is that what politician can justify to the self-rightous voters (ie all of us, at some point or other) that this is more worthy of attention than schools and hospitals and healthy things like that? So it should be legalised properly, but it probably never will be.

[jso1985]

wouldn't you be encouraging prostitution if you legalise it.....

Probably yes, but keeping it illegal won't make it dissappear.

I think it should be legal, gives the workers more safety, the goverment can tax it and HIV prevention programs can be applied easier

[Knock-on]

How can you encourage prostitution? This is the oldest profession in the world after all.

You cannot stop it but I would think it's pretty difficult to encourage it. I suspect it has leveled out and would not increase nor decrease if it were regulated. All that would happen is that the organised crime would be reduced and the prostitutes better looked after.

Lets face it, you can never stop prostitution so why not regulate it rather than sticking our heads in the sand?

[reidy_fan]

think it should be regulated I.e in brothels etc where security can be put in force but that only works if the girls themselves are not drug addicts

the problem with the street girls (In Glasgow anyway) is that most are on the streets because of heroin, crack or cocaine (or all 3) and until something is done to remove that part of the equasion then there will always be these girls. They are driven out there by need and addiction or by bullying boyfriends etc. For as long as class A drugs like heroin are illegal you will always have this problem, perhaps one way of improving the situation is to legalise heroin, remove the dealers from the streets and that might go in some way of removing the girls need to go out there and deal with the dodgy punters in order to get their next fix

[fandango]

This is an interesting piece in relation to this subject.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/6183491.stm

A telling quote:
"Just remember, all of you, that 97% of punters are married or in long-term relationships. If these men weren't eager to have some sort of sexual experience with us then we would all vanish. They are someone's father, son, husband as we are someone's mother, sister and even wife."

One of the things we are inclined to do is talk about our attitude to the (mostly) women who are in the sex business. What really should be looked at is the people who use and obviously feel they need this service. As men we need to look at ourselves maturely and figure out why we as a gender do this.

[Eki]

Yes it should be legalised. It already is here in NZ. Treating sex workers as criminals just keeps them in danger IMO as they often won't go to the police when they are in trouble.

Agree. Here it's legal to sell your own body, but pimping and brothels are illegal. I think that's a good approach. It's not the prostitutes who are criminals, but those who exploit them.

[Nick The Flick]

[quote="tstran17_88"]Now, I’ve never been to the state of Nevada, where prostitution is legal outside the city limits of Las Vegas and Reno, but it seems to me that it’s probably 1000 times safer than a street walker in Los Angeles or New York City. QUOTE]

I've been to all four cities, only been propositioned in Vegas- at 9am on my way to buy some Paracetamol (must have been a slow night!). Oh god, I sound like a sex tourist now. I went to Vegas for a wedding. My wife was there and so were my kids.


Anyway, If you make it legal, it will still be the same men that use the service. It's not going to drag anyone that is currently not interested in prostitution to start going. In some cases it may make things safer, in that the girls aren't hiding from the police when on the streets.

There will always be wierdo's though and hookers will always be an easy target, as they get into people's cars. Even if you make it illegal to sell sex outside of a brothel, it will simply turn to something like escort girls next.

[Ian McC]

I can't see any British government having the balls to do anything like legalise this, I would expect it will continue to be ignored.

[Nick The Flick]

If the government could make money from legalising it, I'm sure they would.

They could even use it as traffic calming. You don't see kerb crawlers breaking the speed limit.