Kimi [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

jas123f1

26th May 2007, 21:26

I hate to say it, but you're absolutely right.

After today's qualifying, I've been wondering, did anyone of us TRULY understand the greatness of Michael Schumacher and the influence he had on Ferrari's success over the past decade?

I think people should not change their mind as soon as something is going against Kimi and start to speak about Schumi. :hmph:

Racing is racing and every driver make mistakes (Schumi too if some one have forgotten). Kimi made a mistake today and pay a price for it - but that doesn’t mean that he isn’t a great driver or that his changes to be WDC 2007 have definitely gone. I think he is more familiar with the car and team now than before and will be even better in becoming races.

So please :o hplease: stop to speak b*ll s**t about him.

Big Ben

26th May 2007, 21:58

I hate to say it, but you're absolutely right.

After today's qualifying, I've been wondering, did anyone of us TRULY understand the greatness of Michael Schumacher and the influence he had on Ferrari's success over the past decade?

Yes... I truly understood MS´greatness and the influence he had on Ferrari´s success over the past decade!....

It´s interesting to hear people talking about this in relation to the Monaco GP. I think that Monaco is the place were he showed the worst side of his character.

MS made stupid mistakes too... and so many of them were last year... while being the best paid f1 driver (ever, I think)

wedge

26th May 2007, 22:02

At least he admitted he made a mistake and didn't stall the car on purpose!

BeansBeansBeans

26th May 2007, 22:23

After Malaysia, people were saying that Massa wasn't fit to drive for Ferrari but a couple of races later, he's the best thing since sliced bread and Kimi is the one under pressure. C'est la vie.

Ian McC

26th May 2007, 22:26

I hate to say it, but you're absolutely right.

After today's qualifying, I've been wondering, did anyone of us TRULY understand the greatness of Michael Schumacher and the influence he had on Ferrari's success over the past decade?

Yawn

He makes a mistake and all of a sudden he is rubbish :rolleyes: Do we really want to bring up Schumachers last qualifying in Monaco? I don't think so somehow.

ioan

26th May 2007, 22:33

Yawn

He makes a mistake and all of a sudden he is rubbish :rolleyes: Do we really want to bring up Schumachers last qualifying in Monaco? I don't think so somehow.

Did MS break his front suspension in Monaco last year or what? :p :

Valve Bounce

26th May 2007, 22:38

Did MS break his front suspension in Monaco last year or what? :p :

Nah!! he just stopped to check out the view. :rolleyes:

ioan

26th May 2007, 22:42

Nah!! he just stopped to check out the view. :rolleyes:

Or maybe made a mistake but without breaking his front suspension. But let's stop here before pino gets angry.

Valve Bounce

26th May 2007, 22:50

Or maybe made a mistake but without breaking his front suspension. But let's stop here before pino gets angry.

pino's cool - Jarno is still there.

ioan

26th May 2007, 22:53

pino's cool - Jarno is still there.

Take care he's a hot blooded Italian! ;)

BeansBeansBeans

26th May 2007, 23:04

Ian McC

26th May 2007, 23:09

raphael123

27th May 2007, 01:49

Fair play BeansBeansBeans - I actually laughed out loud at that!!! :laugh:

We aren't allowed to talk about Schumacher unfortunately, but yes, saying how much we miss him at Monaco a year later is quite ironic lol.

I am definately surprised Kimi has taken this long to settle down. However he says he could have fought for pole today! I guess we won't know, and we'll have to wait till the next race to see if he has completely settled in. He was making similar noises before Spain though, and he was just as far back from Massa.

akv89

27th May 2007, 02:03

It was a mistake on Kimi's part, and nothing more. So there is no reason to define his career by this moment. Remember he was doing fine until he had mechanical problems at the last race, so really this was his first big mistake of the season.
On another note, a lot people claimed that MS intentionally parked the car last year because people generally don't make any mistakes at that corner. Seeing what happenned in qualifying today, perhaps the parking incident was not as intentional as it was made out to be ;)

raikk

27th May 2007, 02:05

Kimi certainly shot himself in the foot with this one but thats racing... This year is starting to look like 2005 all over again for Kimi..If Kimi gets above 7th in this race he has done a good job...

pino

27th May 2007, 07:16

Guys this thread is about Kimi...not Michael, thank you :)

Mikko

27th May 2007, 08:11

Yawn

He makes a mistake and all of a sudden he is rubbish :rolleyes: Do we really want to bring up Schumachers last qualifying in Monaco? I don't think so somehow.

Did I say he's rubbish? He's still one of the quickest drivers in F1!

It's just that the lack of his social skills prevents him of becoming a true superstar. I was amazed yesterday to see him running away from the pits like a scared bunny, when instead he should have been apologising and shaking hands with the mechanics and taking responsibility of his mistake.

That's the part Michael always did brilliantly. And why I brought up MS at the first place, was the fact that I've always had a thought that most of his success came from having the right people around him providing him the best possible equipment. I've been kind of underestimating his own effect on a good team-work and car-developing...

But, I hope that Kimi can learn something and change his personality towards more of a team-player!

And I wish he drives the **** out of his Ferrari today!

DimitraF1

27th May 2007, 09:27

If ferrari hired a new talent that wants to prove something,then the standings in Constructors would be more close to mclaren.Kimi don't look to bother so much about the team,he is there only to win and when he don't succeed he is going home,thats NOT the way a winning team works.This year mclaren is much weaker than f2007,but because of the A++ drivers they manage to win both titles until now with only 1 win.Ferrari have the fastest car and need to catch up until after the mid championship if they want to be WC.Imagine ferrari winning with Hamilton and Alonso collecting points,how annoying it will be for ferrari funs to see losing the WC because the other drivers just collect some points to stay ahead.The overrated finland should find himself or poor massa is out there alone.Imagine the next races when massa will need his help

F1boat

27th May 2007, 09:56

Unfortunately, I also can't see Kimi as a team player. Massa will likely be alone in his fight against the McLaren drivers. The good thing for him is that so far the McLaren drivers are evenly matched and the rival team won't have a Number One driver.

jas123f1

27th May 2007, 10:11

Did I say he's rubbish? He's still one of the quickest drivers in F1!

It's just that the lack of his social skills prevents him of becoming a true superstar. I was amazed yesterday to see him running away from the pits like a scared bunny, when instead he should have been apologising and shaking hands with the mechanics and taking responsibility of his mistake.

That's the part Michael always did brilliantly. And why I brought up MS at the first place, was the fact that I've always had a thought that most of his success came from having the right people around him providing him the best possible equipment. I've been kind of underestimating his own effect on a good team-work and car-developing...

But, I hope that Kimi can learn something and change his personality towards more of a team-player!

And I wish he drives the **** out of his Ferrari today!

It’s absolutely fantastic how people “know” how Kimi should be or not to be!? or if he is worth his salary or not? I think Kimi is a typical finish guy, with some good sides and some less good sides. Therefore it’s so strange that it so often is his finish fans which are criticising him about how he is? Do they don’t see their countryman in him? A bit shy, quiet and honest guy with a big talent for his job and an iron will, a guy who is a good friend to his friends and has lot of (finish) humour …

Why anyone think he should be something he doesn’t be? I don’t even think Kimi should be "better" in any aspect if he try to be something he doesn’t be and absolutely not if he try imitate Schumacher – who in my mind is not even any example to anyone. He was a good driver (absolutely) but that’s it. He also made lot of mistakes and some of them were not as sportsmanlike as however I think it must be when you are driving in F1, which many of us still are thinking as the pinnacle in motorsport.

I don’t like start any discussion about Schumi’s doings or not doings again, but don’t take him as something what Kimi should be – I hope he never will be like Schumacher. Kimi is Kimi (and that really cuts both ways) and if Mikko don’t like it - it’s up to him – but that Kimi should be some other than that finish guy he is – that only rubbish … I like the guy and it’s interesting to follow his driver F1-career. :)

F1boat

27th May 2007, 10:17

jens

27th May 2007, 10:19

With such incidences the only consequence is that McLaren is gradually easing away both in the WDC and the WCC standings... Kimi's only hopes now are rain and especially safety car sessions.

Btw, I saw a dream last night again, where Räikkönen started from 10th for some reason, then he was up to 5th after Lap 1 (!), then rose to 4th and crashed into Ickx (!), who for some reason drove for McLaren. :crazy:
[I occasionally see dreams about F1, but for some reason they have occured quite often recently...]

F1boat

27th May 2007, 10:20

You have funny dreams ;)

aryan

27th May 2007, 10:44

Btw, I saw a dream last night again, where Räikkönen started from 10th for some reason, then he was up to 5th after Lap 1 (!), then rose to 4th and crashed into Ickx (!), who for some reason drove for McLaren. :crazy:

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Man, I wish my dreams were half as funny :D

Valve Bounce

27th May 2007, 11:00

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Man, I wish my dreams were half as funny :D

Yeah!! what were you drinking? I want some of that. :p :

jens

27th May 2007, 11:20

Yeah!! what were you drinking? I want some of that. :p :

Good question. Probably I'm just thinking about F1 too much. :p :

I also remember another dream about Monaco Grand Prix that I saw back in 2004.

The last lap starts and Rubens leads ahead of Michael. Only 6 cars are still in the race. Ferrari gives Rubens a team order to let Michael through, put Rubens refuses to obey the order. After that Michael goes mad and tries an impossible move in the tunnel, both Ferraris collide and all the other cars are unable to avoid the wrecks of the Ferraris. Everyone has retired. After some chaos the jury decides that the results after the penultimate lap will count as the final results.

:)

Ian McC

27th May 2007, 11:39

You are the one who starts Shumy-discussion, now, which is not needed. Ferrari fans have right to be unhappy with Kimi, because they want their favourite team to win. They compare him to the previous Ferrari driver, because the methods of the guy won him 5 Ferrari championships. So far Massa seems to follow closely the guidance of that previous driver and seems more successful.
They may, or may not change. But fans can say theirs opinion.
About who can be or not be an example, it is always good when a driver has a team spirit and it is irrelevant whether his name is Massa, M Shumacher or Alonso.
Or Hakkinen, if we are talking about Finnish people.

Actually maybe the discussion is needed, some Ferrari fans seem to have a real dislike of Kimi, is it because they feel he was partly responsible for MS leaving?

jas123f1

27th May 2007, 11:44

You are the one who starts Shumy-discussion, now, which is not needed. Ferrari fans have right to be unhappy with Kimi, because they want their favourite team to win. They compare him to the previous Ferrari driver, because the methods of the guy won him 5 Ferrari championships. So far Massa seems to follow closely the guidance of that previous driver and seems more successful.
They may, or may not change. But fans can say theirs opinion.
About who can be or not be an example, it is always good when a driver has a team spirit and it is irrelevant whether his name is Massa, M Shumacher or Alonso.
Or Hakkinen, if we are talking about Finnish people.

I didn't start that discussion (or comparing) about Schumi and I don't want to be a part of any either - and I also think it's ok if someone "disappointed Ferrari fan" like to give critic about Kimis driving or other behaves - but Mikko was imo unfair when comparing Kimi against an "unrealistic idol picture" (how disappointed he now may be). :)

27th May 2007, 15:12

Actually maybe the discussion is needed, some Ferrari fans seem to have a real dislike of Kimi, is it because they feel he was partly responsible for MS leaving?

It's nothing to do with Michael leaving. It has everything to do with no filling Michael's shoes.

It's because he isn't performing and isn't doing what he was brought in to do.

You can afford to be walking away without a care when you're winning, but not when you are fecking it up. The 'Bridgestone' excuse is pathetic. At the moment, his attitude is pathetic.

Unless he get's his **** together in the next two races, I for one will be wanting him dropped.

Driver's who don't give their all, on and off the track, should always despised by the Tifosi.

ioan

27th May 2007, 15:25

Actually maybe the discussion is needed, some Ferrari fans seem to have a real dislike of Kimi, is it because they feel he was partly responsible for MS leaving?

You're of the mark there.
Kimi is not responsible for MS leaving LdM is.

But as tamburello pointed it out Kimi is not giving all he could for the team and himself.
And because you brought MS in this discussion I am still to remember a race where MS didn't give his all to achieve the best possible result.

Felipe is doing much better than Kimi for much less incentives. Maybe a pay cut is in order for the Finn.

janneppi

27th May 2007, 15:25

Kimi really needs to improve his qualifying, hitting a wall doesn't seem to help.

wedge

27th May 2007, 16:01

tamburello - I very much respect that you have an opinion to voice but I do think you're prejudiced from what you read and see on telly.

It's quite easy to class Kimi as an outcast just because he's an introvert, private man, various sources questioning his work ethic.

Just because we see Kimi storming off after he makes a mistake does that make him a bad driver person/driver?

Answer: no

Kimi's reaction was heat of the moment stuff. He made a mistake and he's angry. That's normally how most drivers react. Give them time and space they'll be happy to talk to their engineers privately and then to the public.

Senna too was private individual, regarded as somewhat emotionally cold because he valued his privacy and natural talent as separate entities.

Remember when Senna crashed his car in Portiers in the 1988? He stormed off and left the circuit without even heading back to the paddock. At that moment critics questioned Senna's capacity to become WDC and yet Senna went on to become one of the greatest of all time.

rohanweb

27th May 2007, 17:05

It was hilarious when Kimi and Felipe both ended up facing the barriers at Rascasse. Their battle to replace Schumacher as top dog symbolised by what looked like a battle for his favourite parking space.

haa..haaa.. so Kimi got a good hands-on at MS's favorite parking place for the sea-view ;) lol.

anyhow Kimi seems a bit lost thesedays, making costly mistakes might just suggest that Ferrari's taken on a 'mistaker' though ...( loves to get a glimpse of Montzamello on this ) ;)

race aficionado

27th May 2007, 17:16

two of the greatest F1 stars changed teams.
So far FA has two wins with his new tream and KR has one.
both were looking "iffy" because of their performance as compared to their team mates but FA has come out of of that quandry momentarily today.

I don't know what Kimi's excuses are - or what are the real reasons - but let's give him some time.

Kimi is Kimi and we have seen him in action before and we have all been impressed with some of the things he has done throughout his career.

He's on the lime light, everyone is watching, let's see how he perform under pressure.

FA showed us this weekend how it's done.

:s mokin:

Ian McC

27th May 2007, 17:23

You're of the mark there.
Kimi is not responsible for MS leaving LdM is.

I know this, some people just seem to have a problem with him.

RaikkonenRules

27th May 2007, 17:31

pino's cool - Jarno is still there.

Pino's not cool Jarno only finished 15th :p

jas123f1

27th May 2007, 17:45

It's nothing to do with Michael leaving. It has everything to do with no filling Michael's shoes.

It's because he isn't performing and isn't doing what he was brought in to do.

You can afford to be walking away without a care when you're winning, but not when you are fecking it up. The 'Bridgestone' excuse is pathetic. At the moment, his attitude is pathetic.

Unless he get's his **** together in the next two races, I for one will be wanting him dropped.

Driver's who don't give their all, on and off the track, should always despised by the Tifosi.

Some of Ferrari fans think it’s easy to be as Best In The World as soon you are sitting in a Ferrari (they actually forgot that it’s two years a go Ferrari had a WDC, even when there was two very "Ferrari experienced" drivers and their "one driver policy" - it's actually Alonso who is WDC and has been during 2 years now - not any other.

I think it’s time that even to tifosis like you) start to understand that.

Asking the team how Kimi is working, they don’t agree with your opinion at all (e.g. that Kimi is pathetic). According to the team Kimi is doing exactly what he is supposed to do and making the best he can and improving all the time.

It’s very strange that some of tifosis (not everyone of cause) are so hard criticising Kimi after five races - especially when he has won one race and been in the podium twice more (3th) and when the car made (not Kimi) that he was forced to retire in the fourth from a podium result.

But its right, that Kimi make a mistake in the fifth - which he also admits that right a way - and the result (one point) was of cause worse what he or the team was looking for.

It's also right that the car was more difficult to drive with the softest compound than Kimi was waiting, which was a little surprise to the other drivers too. I think Kimi make his mistake before he realized that and that way was it.

However it’s a question to put together a whole package – all the people in the team, the car, tyres and setup of the car to the driver. There are many (good willing) people and I’m sure the results are coming soon. It’s not that easy to be World Champion as many seems to believe – and also in a team lke Ferrari it takes little a bit longer than four races so tifosis (also you) should be more patient and wait. :)

DimitraF1

27th May 2007, 18:35

wh ois ms?

Roamy

27th May 2007, 21:49

I hate to say it, but you're absolutely right.

After today's qualifying, I've been wondering, did anyone of us TRULY understand the greatness of Michael Schumacher and the influence he had on Ferrari's success over the past decade?

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=911&d=1180297983

ioan

27th May 2007, 22:22

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=911&d=1180297983

The link doesn't work fousto.

Valve Bounce

27th May 2007, 22:26

I know this, some people just seem to have a problem with him.

Yeah!! lotsa people don't like Luca. :p :

akv89

28th May 2007, 01:24

Valve Bounce

28th May 2007, 01:48

I'm inclined to give Kimi more time to settle into the new team. Monaco is different - the expectancy was for Kimi to win and as Massa showed, teh car wasn't up to it. However, the only way to win at Monaco is to qualify really, really well; most probably on the front row. Unless armco kissing or mechanical disfunctions intervene, then the guys up the front are going to win.

I'd like to think that Kimi tried his best to get onto the front row and got a kiss from the armco for his efforts. Lotsa great drivers get these kisses, not the least being the great Senna.

I'd like to see Kimi continue to keep trying just as hard in future races.

Ranger

28th May 2007, 10:15

Tough race for Kimi. When the leading Ferrari finishes 69 seconds down on first (In 3rd place) it makes passing traffic pretty damn tough as well.

Problem for him is that the poor performance can all be traced back to his own error on Saturday, and now he is -15 on Alonso and Hamilton. If he doesn't lift his game then I will admit that I have underrated Massa and overrated Raikkonen.

leopard

28th May 2007, 10:35

First of all, Monaco isn't track that too much suitable for the powerful Ferrari.

Driver factor and other than it I don't know. :\

Valve Bounce

28th May 2007, 10:40

leopard

28th May 2007, 10:53

.....................or we may have underated McLaren.

Who asked you? :D

jens

28th May 2007, 11:08

Corny

28th May 2007, 11:33

Raikkonen can still make it.. look at last year, Alonso never retired the first half of the season and then the second half, well you know
I'm sure there will be retirements for all four this year, so 15 points is by far not impossible to catch in.

(but to be honest, I don't think Raikkonen will come in top 3 this year)

555-04Q2

28th May 2007, 12:13

overrated Raikkonen.

I've been saying that for years and taken a lot of flack for it.

Valve Bounce

28th May 2007, 13:06

Who asked you? :D

Just checking, la!! :p :

On reflection, I think it was Ron Dennis who has been talking down the Mackalaren while saying that Ferrari was much faster.

jas123f1

28th May 2007, 13:38

So far this year both Felipe and Kimi have made one error with the Finns error having more serious consequences.

What makes Räikkönen's situation tougher, is that he does not need to catch only one guy (like MS last year), but three, and to see all of them having a bad day in the same race is quite unlikely. Title is not lost yet, but he also doesn't have room for other donsy weekends.

Yes - Massa has been luckier than Kimi in his unlucky. His car had problem before the race and his driving error didn’t cost that much as Kimis. Anyway we can say that without those problems with cars Ferrari would be in much better position today, McLaren looks very reliable so far, but as we know everything can happen in F1 – and it usually does. ;)

schmenke

28th May 2007, 17:41

Let's put things in prerspective here...

Michael's influence on Ferrari pales in comparison to the contributions made by Jean Todt, Ross Brawn, and more importantly, the Bridgestone relationship.

Kimi does not necessarily enjoy the same team support that Michael did :mark:

ioan

28th May 2007, 17:46

Kimi does not necessarily enjoy the same team support that Michael did :mark:

You don't get peoples respect and love on a plate, you earn it.

Roamy

28th May 2007, 17:51

Rak has no problems that a couple of wins in a row won't fix. Canada will be a good track for Rak so I am just going to sit back and watch. At least we have some suspense this year and some very good battles going on. I still think it takes a minimum of 6 races to settle into a new team. Which also equates to a "watch out" to Hamilton fans. Alonso could get better than he already is.

28th May 2007, 18:01

Rak has no problems that a couple of wins in a row won't fix.

It's not often that I agree with you, but this is one.

But the ball is firmly now in Kimi's court....it's time he delivered the kind of performances that warrant a $25millon dollar pay-check.

If he doesn't, then the Tifosi are going to run out of patience.

28th May 2007, 18:04

Some of Ferrari fans think it’s easy to be as Best In The World as soon you are sitting in a Ferrari (they actually forgot that it’s two years a go Ferrari had a WDC, even when there was two very "Ferrari experienced" drivers and their "one driver policy" - it's actually Alonso who is WDC and has been during 2 years now - not any other.

I think it’s time that even to tifosis like you) start to understand that.

Oh, us Tifosi know full well that sitting in a Ferrari is no guarantee of anything. Some of us can remember a very long losing streak.

What we won't accept is someone who doesn't give 100%. We know that the only way to win is to give 100%.

Maybe it's time the Kimi fans start to understand that?

Roamy

28th May 2007, 18:05

yep all eyes will be focus on him now. I wonder how tight his contract is?
I do expect he will come good very shortly. His problem is that Massa is faster than many people think.

F1boat

28th May 2007, 18:27

You don't get peoples respect and love on a plate, you earn it.

Well said!

schmenke

28th May 2007, 18:31

You don't get peoples respect and love on a plate, you earn it.

ioan, you missed my point...

I'm highlighting the fact that Michael had several advantages during his tenure at Ferrari that contributed to his WDC's that Kimi does not.
Let's keep that in mind when comparing the relative performances of the two drivers.

28th May 2007, 18:35

I'm highlighting the fact that Michael had several advantages during his tenure at Ferrari that contributed to his WDC's that Kimi does not.

And I suppose that they magically appeared in Michael's lap after he had done nothing to deserve them?

Ioan's still right....you are not given advantages, you earn them.

Mikko

28th May 2007, 18:36

Kimi is Kimi (and that really cuts both ways) and if Mikko don’t like it - it’s up to him – but that Kimi should be some other than that finish guy he is – that only rubbish … I like the guy and it’s interesting to follow his driver F1-career. :)

My friend, you've got it all wrong. I like Kimi a lot (as a driver that is, I'm still 100% heterosexual), you might even say that I'm quite a big fan of his.

But I'm no blind. If I do see that he has something to learn I'm not afraid to say it. I used MS only as a good example of a driver who has taken good care of all the other necessary business outside the cockpit, unlike Kimi has done so far.

I truly don't want Kimi to change his personality or characteristics. Heck, I'm also a typical Finn, kind of shy and quiet, at least if you compare me to (and sorry, this can be a stereotype) Latin-Americans, for example.

It's just that, allthough being "shy and quiet", I have a demanding job (by the way Jas, I work for a SWEDISH company) in which I have to do things that I normally wouldn't like to do "just for fun".

And that's pretty much what I'd like Kimi to do; Adapt his personality & manners to whichever level needed, to become the best driver there is!

Giuseppe F1

28th May 2007, 18:37

On the subject of Kimi - I think he and Scott Speed have become pretty good mates this season it would seem :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DECD0FF6tCw&NR=1

:)

schmenke

28th May 2007, 19:07

And I suppose that they magically appeared in Michael's lap after he had done nothing to deserve them?

Ioan's still right....you are not given advantages, you earn them.

Umm... o.k., so Michael "earned" Ross Brawn when whe jumped ship from Benetton; he "earned" the Bridgestone tyre deal...
Yes, I'm sure that Kimi too will eventually "earn" similar advantages :rolleyes:

janneppi

28th May 2007, 19:20

aryan

28th May 2007, 19:53

Which also equates to a "watch out" to Hamilton fans. Alonso could get better than he already is.

Because Hamilton has been the incumbent driving McLaren for years now? :dozey:

ioan

28th May 2007, 20:08

Bosses at Ferrari knew exactly who they were getting with Kimi, it seems they give about the same amount of what the tifosi think as Kimi does. Rat's ass

Good to know what Kimi thinks about his supporters. I suppose it doesn't bother you at all to support him after all.

F1boat

28th May 2007, 20:37

Good to know what Kimi thinks about his supporters. I suppose it doesn't bother you at all to support him after all.

ROFL

janneppi

29th May 2007, 07:25

Good to know what Kimi thinks about his supporters.
I'm not a tifosi, so Kimis's feeling about them is irrelevant to me.
Last i checked tifosi aren't too bothered who drives for their, it could be Satan himself if he won races.

I suppose it doesn't bother you at all to support him after all
Could you rephrase that, i don't understand what you said. :)

jas123f1

29th May 2007, 11:12

Oh, us Tifosi know full well that sitting in a Ferrari is no guarantee of anything. Some of us can remember a very long losing streak.

What we won't accept is someone who doesn't give 100%. We know that the only way to win is to give 100%.

Maybe it's time the Kimi fans start to understand that?

You and your percents :) but the team doesn't agree with you about your criticism about Kimis working effort.

To be quite honest - it’s not fair or realistic to criticise Kimi after only a few races and compare him against an unrealistic picture of seven times world champion who has been working at Ferrari many many years.

Maybe you are waiting that Kimi will be some kind new Schumacher – in that case, forget it. Kimi will newer be like Schumacher or like any other either, because he is only what he is. If you don’t like it it’s only to regret, but that way it is. However it doesn’t mean that he don’t give 100% for the team (as you said), he is very hard working guy and gives every time 100% to his team.

Ferrari has now one Brazilian and one Finnish driver with their personalities. Don’t think a second that Ferrari didn’t know what they have got when they give the jobs to those guys - they know exactly what they have hired. Massa is more cheerful and nice guy and Kimi is more cool and self-controlled (or something like that)..

Even if McLaren looks very strong (at the moment) it’s too early to say nothing about the future - it’s still quite possible to Ferrari to win both WDC and WCC 2007. Ferrari has also been a bit unlucky with the cars and there has been also some driver mistakes, but that’s racing and usually it will level out between teams during a season.

:)

jas123f1

29th May 2007, 12:38

I like Kimi a lot (as a driver that is, I'm still 100% heterosexual), you might even say that I'm quite a big fan of his.

But I'm no blind. If I do see that he has something to learn I'm not afraid to say it. I used MS only as a good example of a driver who has taken good care of all the other necessary business outside the cockpit, unlike Kimi has done so far.

ok "kimi fan" I understand - and of cause it's up to "each and all" how and what they are writing - but I personally don’t think it’s time to criticise Kimi after only a few races and last of all compare him against an (in my mind an unrealistic) picture of seven times world champion who has been working at Ferrari years. As long as Kimis team says that he is working hard and doing everything as expected of him and everyone thinks that the results are coming sooner or later. It’s easy to underrate the difficulties Kimi has when trying to adapt to his new team. I’m sure he make what he can to be as good as possible..

I understand also that all old Schumi fans are being a bit in hurry and hoping for immediately results from Kimi, (partly also because Alonso beat Schumi twice before Schumi retired and it’s not that pleasantly to a Ferrari fan) but when we are speaking about racing and F1 – and there are nothing that easy - so let's see what happen, I'm sure that Kimi will improve even more and the results will come, its only takes little time which is quite naturally because Ferrari is a new team for him -- :)

Mikko

29th May 2007, 15:14

Last i checked tifosi aren't too bothered who drives for their, it could be Satan himself if he won races.

I thought he played ice-hockey in NHL?

Mikko

29th May 2007, 15:27

ok "kimi fan" I understand - and of cause it's up to "each and all" how and what they are writing - but I personally don’t think it’s time to criticise Kimi after only a few races and last of all compare him against an (in my mind an unrealistic) picture of seven times world champion who has been working at Ferrari years. As long as Kimis team says that he is working hard and doing everything as expected of him and everyone thinks that the results are coming sooner or later. It’s easy to underrate the difficulties Kimi has when trying to adapt to his new team. I’m sure he make what he can to be as good as possible..

I understand also that all old Schumi fans are being a bit in hurry and hoping for immediately results from Kimi, (partly also because Alonso beat Schumi twice before Schumi retired and it’s not that pleasantly to a Ferrari fan) but when we are speaking about racing and F1 – and there are nothing that easy - so let's see what happen, I'm sure that Kimi will improve even more and the results will come, its only takes little time which is quite naturally because Ferrari is a new team for him -- :)

Well, after reading a couple of your messages, I've realised that I'm not a TRUE Kimi-fan after all...

You seem to be such a fanatic that I'm sure if you ever get bored being a Swede, you'll get Finnish nationality in no time! :)

Robinho

29th May 2007, 21:08

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39430

interesting thoughts from Kimi, if he is right in what he is saying then perhaps we should expect more of him from this point on. its good to see a driver own up to a mistake, even if it would be pretty much impossible to claim otherwise.

i hope that he has got over the initial bedding in phase with the new cars and tyres as i certainly don't think we've seen anything like the best from him and i also think some people are not giving him much of a chance to show it, almost certainly not helped by the fact that his 3 main rivals are driving so well at the moment.

like Fousto says a couple of wins will change everything, the sooner the better for Kimi, and i don't think he's one to let the slightly disappointing start get the better of him - i won't be writing him off just yet

jas123f1

30th May 2007, 08:25

Well, after reading a couple of your messages, I've realised that I'm not a TRUE Kimi-fan after all...

You seem to be such a fanatic that I'm sure if you ever get bored being a Swede, you'll get Finnish nationality in no time! :)

Ha ha :) Nice - so you start to speak about me when we were speaking about Kimi.

Speaking about nationality - I was in Finland 15 years ago and that's enough for me, but I have some finnish friends living in Sweden and they like Kimi even more than I do (speaking of fanatic :) ).

No, I don’t think I’m fanatic at all – only trying to be fair against Kimi. I don’t like when some people, who thinks they know everything, has started to speak against him directly from the season start and unfortunately (imo) are too many finnish "singing" with them. I think sometimes people in sweden like Kimi more than people in his homeland, so much b*** s*** about him comes from Finland? Can you explain to me why? Is it some kind of jealousy because because of his success in F1?

I don't think it's fair to compare him with Schumi after two tree races in a Ferrari - that fanatic i'm - :)

Racehound

30th May 2007, 09:46

Racehound

30th May 2007, 09:50

.....as much as we love ole kimi its startin to form a pattern here......bits of metal and carbon fibre all unconnected from their places of origin seems to be following him from 1 place to the next!!!!!!

Valve Bounce

30th May 2007, 09:58

Ha ha :)
Speaking about nationality - I was in Finland 15 years ago and that's enough for me, ............

I suppose that was the Finish for you. :p :

Mikko

30th May 2007, 17:14

Ha ha :) Nice - so you start to speak about me when we were speaking about Kimi.

Speaking about nationality - I was in Finland 15 years ago and that's enough for me, but I have some finnish friends living in Sweden and they like Kimi even more than I do (speaking of fanatic :) ).

No, I don’t think I’m fanatic at all – only trying to be fair against Kimi. I don’t like when some people, who thinks they know everything, has started to speak against him directly from the season start and unfortunately (imo) are too many finnish "singing" with them. I think sometimes people in sweden like Kimi more than people in his homeland, so much b*** s*** about him comes from Finland? Can you explain to me why? Is it some kind of jealousy because because of his success in F1?

I don't think it's fair to compare him with Schumi after two tree races in a Ferrari - that fanatic i'm - :)

Jas, have you somehow got the impression that I'm a Schumi-fan?

You couldn't be more wrong.

F1boat

30th May 2007, 17:24

Jas, you should admit that he disappoints so far, especially after Melbourne.

Daika

30th May 2007, 17:33

His only fault was in Monaco. Pitty that the points system simply doesn't allow him to come back from 15 points behind unless Mclaren goes crashing.

rabf1

30th May 2007, 18:37

Its not that Kimi made a mistake and crashed that is the problem. The problem is that he generally does not appear to be as quick as Massa. If he is the second coming of MS as many expected and is worth all the money, he needs to be consistently quicker than Massa. And not just a little quicker, a lot quicker.

Racehound

31st May 2007, 00:32

Ferrari have won 3/4 races, and have had 4/5 poles since MS's departure. Mechanical failure has cost them the most, I don't think Michael was involved in that. Obviously Michael is a loss, but not as much as people want us to believe.
perfectly put.....

Viktory

31st May 2007, 13:12

ioan

31st May 2007, 16:45

...like Fousto says a couple of wins will change everything...

I would love it to be that way but this points system means that it might take 8 successive race wins for him to be up with the leaders. That's sad.

OTA

31st May 2007, 16:49

Sad for who? Not the leaders

Cheers
David

ioan

31st May 2007, 17:01

Sad for who? Not the leaders

Cheers
David

For the fans generally.

Shalafi

31st May 2007, 17:03

I would love it to be that way but this points system means that it might take 8 successive race wins for him to be up with the leaders. That's sad.

It will be tough but he can still do it (win WDC). He is much more comfortable with the car now and if he can take 16-20 points from next two races and Ferrari can develop car better than McLaren for the rest of the year I can still see Kimi winning WDC and Ferrari winning WCC. McLaren drivers will get their share of problems at some point this year, thats for sure. Of course he cant afford costly mistakes or unreliable Ferrari now, so he is in the edge...Come on, its time for the Ice age!! :)

555-04Q2

1st June 2007, 07:13

jens

1st June 2007, 15:49

If you consider that MS was consistently quicker than Massa last year, it's lucky for you MS bashers that it's not Kimi and MS sharing the Ferrari seats this year, would have been interesting to hear the comments then... :p

I guess that everyone would be saying that Ferrari favours Michael and that's why Kimi can't prove himself against the German.

ioan

1st June 2007, 16:15

I guess that everyone would be saying that Ferrari favours Michael and that's why Kimi can't prove himself against the German.

Not everyone! ;)

Roamy

1st June 2007, 16:25

If you consider that MS was consistently quicker than Massa last year, it's lucky for you MS bashers that it's not Kimi and MS sharing the Ferrari seats this year, would have been interesting to hear the comments then... :p

Nah we would still bash the prix because we know he would be CHEATING.
Lets see what Montreal brings - hopefully a red 1 - 2

wmcot

2nd June 2007, 07:58

A couple of wins may not make a big change in the driver's championship, but it will make a big difference in the minds of Ferrari fans (and the Italian press.)

As has been stated on previous posts, Ferrari knew exactly who THEY wanted when they picked Kimi to succeed MS. They knew about his personality and introverted nature.

I expect that we'll still see some great racing from him the rest of this season (if the car is reliable)

Racehound

4th June 2007, 16:34

You're of the mark there.
Kimi is not responsible for MS leaving LdM is.

But as tamburello pointed it out Kimi is not giving all he could for the team and himself.
And because you brought MS in this discussion I am still to remember a race where MS didn't give his all to achieve the best possible result.

Felipe is doing much better than Kimi for much less incentives. Maybe a pay cut is in order for the Finn.
and give his paycut to Felipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ioan

4th June 2007, 17:00

and give his paycut to Felipe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't go as far as that.

futuretiger9

4th June 2007, 21:43

If you consider that MS was consistently quicker than Massa last year, it's lucky for you MS bashers that it's not Kimi and MS sharing the Ferrari seats this year, would have been interesting to hear the comments then... :p

In many ways, this year's developments have been a major compliment to Michael. As the saying goes, you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

Valve Bounce

5th June 2007, 00:23

Agreed!

555-04Q2

5th June 2007, 11:46

:erm: I notice the Kimi fans are rather quiet of late ;)

ioan

5th June 2007, 13:42

Alonso fans weren't very noisy either before Monaco! :)

Juppe

5th June 2007, 20:55

:erm: I notice the Kimi fans are rather quiet of late ;)

Isn't it better to shut to **** up than to find ridiculous excuses?

Which isn't to say that I have lost my faith - I still believe the tables will turn.

ArrowsFA1

6th June 2007, 09:57

Interesting comments from Mario Andretti (link (http://www.usgpindy.com/news/story.php?story_id=9127)) on the subject of F1 in general, and the Kimi/Felipe situation in particular.

"I think Massa has had a leg up on Raikkonen – being at Ferrari before him, and having twice beaten Michael, let's remember. He knows the car, and he knows the people – he's part of the team. And I think Kimi, coming in, probably felt that.

"I don't know Kimi that well, but I always think he looks somewhat … passive. I don't know if it's that way inside or not. Maybe he doesn't have the team rallying around him as much as you might expect. I'm on the outside, looking in, and this is just conjecture, but I was sure that Kimi would immediately take charge, and it doesn't seem to be the case at the moment. I'd imagine his character is stronger than Massa's, and I think that ultimately he might endure a high-pressure situation better. My feeling is that it will unfold that way, and it'll be interesting to see if it does."

555-04Q2

6th June 2007, 10:11

Isn't it better to shut to **** up than to find ridiculous excuses?

Which isn't to say that I have lost my faith - I still believe the tables will turn.

Can dish it out but cant take it, can you :?:

There was a lot of hype about how Kimi would clean up MS if they drive together. That MS was not such a great driver. Remember the posts towards the end of last year or have you got a short memory :?: Well, that has been proven wrong and as I have been saying for a long time now, Kimi is overrated. I'm merely making an observation, not making excuses, matey.

But I'll shut the %^$# up now :s tareup:

ShiftingGears

6th June 2007, 10:22

Can dish it out but cant take it, can you :?:

There was a lot of hype about how Kimi would clean up MS if they drive together. That MS was not such a great driver. Remember the posts towards the end of last year or have you got a short memory :?: Well, that has been proven wrong and as I have been saying for a long time now, Kimi is overrated. I'm merely making an observation, not making excuses, matey.

But I'll shut the %^$# up now :s tareup:

He was referring to his interpretation of why Kimi fans were being quiet, not having a go at you.

Also interesting comments by Andretti.

555-04Q2

6th June 2007, 10:23

My bad then.

leopard

6th June 2007, 10:42

I will make comparison on myself to explain about champ mentality.

I can’t categorize myself master on playing ping-pong, tennis on the table. The fact is that in my community I can easily lead on the point of each round over my opponents, but on the final result of determining round, they take me inside out, finally-->lose. Playing a game is not only about skill, but also endurance, patience against pressure and environment of the game, and supporter of the rivals’ booing will easily deteriorate your skill and chance on winning.

This is my experience, I don’t hope Kimi, a world class athlete has the same disturbing behavior as mine :( .

ioan

6th June 2007, 10:45

leopard

6th June 2007, 10:52

Confidence is all that is needed when you already got the skills, for table tennis that is.
That's right, it keeps me challenging the game, win one or two rounds, but not winning the whole game.

andreag

6th June 2007, 11:04

That's right, it keeps me challenging the game, win one or two rounds, but not winning the whole game.
You just have to convince your opponents to play shorter games, and you'll be a winner ;) .

Valve Bounce

6th June 2007, 13:02

Confidence is all that is needed when you already got the skills, for table tennis that is.

This particularly applies to sailing. a Year after I learned to sail a dinghy, I asked my friend and mentor how best to go watch the Enterprise World Championships as my daughter was crewing for him and I wanted to take some pictures of them. He asked me why I wanted to watch the championships when I should take part in them

I went and bought myself a good Ent, and came in the top half of the field just 17 months after I first stepped into my first sailboat.

I believed in myself, honed my skills, and later on, won three class championships in Sonatas.

But that is absolutely nothing compared to what Kimi can do. I believed he was the fastest driver in F1, and when he gets to grips with his new car, he will be again. But first, he must believe in himself.

ioan

6th June 2007, 13:29

This particularly applies to sailing. a Year after I learned to sail a dinghy, I asked my friend and mentor how best to go watch the Enterprise World Championships as my daughter was crewing for him and I wanted to take some pictures of them. He asked me why I wanted to watch the championships when I should take part in them

I went and bought myself a good Ent, and came in the top half of the field just 17 months after I first stepped into my first sailboat.

I believed in myself, honed my skills, and later on, won three class championships in Sonatas.

But that is absolutely nothing compared to what Kimi can do. I believed he was the fastest driver in F1, and when he gets to grips with his new car, he will be again. But first, he must believe in himself.

Well done Valve! :up:

If only Kimi would read your post, Ferrari might still have a chance for the constructors title.

Mickey T

6th June 2007, 16:44

...and if only he'd stay off the turps the day before qualifying in monaco

trumperZ06

6th June 2007, 17:16

Well done Valve! :up:

If only Kimi would read your post, Ferrari might still have a chance for the constructors title.

:D : Especially if it... RAINS !!! ;)

F1boat

6th June 2007, 19:22

ioan

6th June 2007, 19:46

Andretti also added that Renault needs Bourdais, that was interesting.

The same Andretti who said:

<<Andretti does not believe that all of Renault's current difficulties are the result of the team's switch to Bridgestone, and thinks that the signing of Bourdais would be perfect for their circumstances.

"I think if you put Alonso back in that car, he'd have it up to speed in no time.>>

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59448

He thinks he knows better than the Renault engineers, but it just shows that he knows little about a modern F1 car.

trumperZ06

6th June 2007, 20:05

F1boat

6th June 2007, 20:44

Andretti may not know about modern cars, but knows well about racing, winning, excuses - the whole circus about F1 and open wheel racing.

leopard

7th June 2007, 04:29

You just have to convince your opponents to play shorter games, and you'll be a winner ;) .
I'll try to do it, and also ask the referee to acknowledge my wins ;)

Valve Bounce

7th June 2007, 04:40

I'll try to do it, and also ask the referee to acknowledge my wins ;)

You can only win if you trully believe that you will win. As long as you hold this idea that you can win a couple of games and then you will fade, that's what is going to happen everytime - basically you are choking.

leopard

7th June 2007, 04:51

You can only win if you trully believe that you will win. As long as you hold this idea that you can win a couple of games and then you will fade, that's what is going to happen everytime - basically you are choking.
This sounds as more proper answer to my previous posts.

How are you Valve?

Valve Bounce

7th June 2007, 05:28

This sounds as more proper answer to my previous posts.

How are you Valve?

Getting old :(

leopard

7th June 2007, 08:01

Getting old :(
Don't worry, the old one gets the better first :cool:

Scuderia ferrari

7th June 2007, 08:35

So what? Everyone makes mistakes sometime, flipping heck, racing drivers are not perfect in what they do you know? Barcelona was hardly his fault, it was car problems, and apart from hitting the barriers at monaco, i can't think of another incedent where he has taken himself out of the running. Okay, so he has the personality of wall paper, but each driver to their own, i think he could still be the champion at the end of the year.

Yes- Felipe has been more consitant and finished better than Kimi at alot of places, but you can't take anything away from ferrari, they are doing a sterling job without schumi this year, and they have the best driver package (in my humble oppion) of all the teams this year.

Valve Bounce

7th June 2007, 10:13

Okay, so he has the personality of wall paper, but each driver to their own, .....................

That's a bit harsh! I think he's one cool dude!!

aryan

7th June 2007, 12:48

The same Andretti who said:

<<Andretti does not believe that all of Renault's current difficulties are the result of the team's switch to Bridgestone, and thinks that the signing of Bourdais would be perfect for their circumstances.

"I think if you put Alonso back in that car, he'd have it up to speed in no time.>>

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59448

He thinks he knows better than the Renault engineers, but it just shows that he knows little about a modern F1 car.

Based on his reputation, I would give him the benefit of doubt in thinking that he knows what he is talking about.

Support from current Engineers and staff of a team for a driver counts for nothing. What else do you expect the engineers to say? "Yeah... well... to be honests with you Mr. Journalist, we think Fish is mediocre and Heikki has crashed under pressure to perform..."

ioan

7th June 2007, 14:36

Based on his reputation, I would give him the benefit of doubt in thinking that he knows what he is talking about.

Support from current Engineers and staff of a team for a driver counts for nothing. What else do you expect the engineers to say? "Yeah... well... to be honests with you Mr. Journalist, we think Fish is mediocre and Heikki has crashed under pressure to perform..."

How on Earth would Andretti know more about Renault's problems than the Renault team?

I mean, when was the last time he drove an F1 car? Plus he is hardly an F1 insider nowadays.

Also I don't remember HK or GF being so much of the pace of FA in the past seasons in order for the lap time difference to be down to the drivers.

OTA

7th June 2007, 15:05

Don't know your age Ioan, but memory is starting to fade :) Your dislike of FA doesn't let you any objectivity whatsoever.

Nothing personal mate

Cheers
David

Mickey T

7th June 2007, 15:30

How on Earth would Andretti know more about Renault's problems than the Renault team?

I mean, when was the last time he drove an F1 car? Plus he is hardly an F1 insider nowadays.

Also I don't remember HK or GF being so much of the pace of FA in the past seasons in order for the lap time difference to be down to the drivers.

Once again, i think you're being incredibly naive about the nature of motorsport, and Mario would know more about it than you by a factor of hundreds.

F1 is not about the current rules or technology. this stuff comes and goes and the upper hand here ebbs and flows amongst the teams over the years.

Motorsport is people, and it's people who love motorsport, because apart from the top 0.01 percent of people involved in it around the world, it's about expenditure, not income. so you have to love it.

It really doesn't matter when Andretti last drove an F1 car. when he did, he was in a team that set new standards and was, in reality the most consistent technical breakthrough maker of all time in F1.

Think back on it and you can see for yourself. The DFV Cosworth only happened at Chapman's instigation and was supposed to be good for three to four years. twenty-odd years later, Alboreto won it's last F1 race. They made the first monocoque F1 car. they made the first car with side-mounted radiators. In Andretti's era, they made the first ground-effect F1 cars.

Post-Andretti, they ran the first F1 car with a carbon-fibre monocoque (McLaren claims it was first, but they only announced it first, Lotus beat them to the track by a week).

As a racing driver and team owner in his own right (and he's intimately involved with his son's team), the best commodity you can have is a network and the information that comes from it. Which engineer is worth poaching, who's doing what in aero, if we need a different characteristic in a specific direction from our carbon fibre whatsit, which core supplier is best to approach, is there a bright young software star out there who also understands suspension geometry?

If only one percent of Mario's F1 contacts are still operational, he'll know more than enough for me, thanks very much. And don't forget, it wasn't that long ago that his son raced for McLaren, and the family is working to find Marco a seat and he will want to know enough about every year's next season for every team so he doesn't end up in a team that's about to slump.

I don't think you've thought this comment through as well as you could have.

besides, in the last two years, Fisi's race laps were often between 1.3 to 2.0 seconds off FA last year. Don't look at his fastest race laps. they mean almost nothing. Look at his time taper over his long runs. This tells you what you need to know about a driver and a team.

If the car's tyre balance window is wide enough (and this is ability to maintain balance once the best of the grip has gone, for a driver, more than anything else, the difference between a good and a bad F1 car) that one driver can put in long runs within a couple of tenths a lap, there is no excuse for the other driver's inability to.

if both drivers have their times fall away over a long run, it indicates the balance window is very tight (or both drivers are not top drawer) and that the car's pace falls off once the tyres are past their prime.

At Renault, the last two years have shown one driver able to lap consistently quickly over the long runs and one driver who wasn't able to.

Wanna guess who was the consistent one and who wasn't?

I understand Renault have lost a couple of key aero people lately (and have just applied for rezoning approval on a new wind tunnel), but what do you think they'd do for a driver who was 1.3-2.0 seconds a lap faster than Fisi right now?

and where would that put them on the grid?

race aficionado

7th June 2007, 15:43

Mickey T.
Thanks for your insight and contributions to our forum.

Classy act sir.

:s mokin:

OTA

7th June 2007, 17:16

It's actually quite simple to look at the differences. Here's the link
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/727/550/

Fisi finish on average 30+ seconds behind FA, which means basically that he was 0,5sec faster than Fisi. Obviously, we'll have to take into account that in many races FA did at least one stint in economy mode(usually the last) therefore if we were to really look at it the difference would be greater.

I once got told by a well known tennis coach that the difference in tecnique between the Nº1 in the world and the Nº 100 was practically nothing. They all know how to hit a great forehand and a backhand, but they don't all know how to perform their best when it counts.
In my opinion F1 is pretty much the same, they are all quick, very quick, the quickest in the world probably, but some finish in one time and others 30 or 40seconds behind.

You want to bash FA because you don't like his personality, his hairdoo, his attitude, or because he was WDC when you wanted another one to be WDC, that's fine. But to claim Fisi or HK were in a similar pace to FA is, with all my respects, quite laughable. I'ts pretty much like saying that Irvine, or RB were in the same league as MS.

And I don't have the pleasure of knowing Mr Andretti, but your attempt to discredit his opinion based on when was the last time he drove an F1 car is as well something that says more about you that about him.

Cheers
David

Shalafi

7th June 2007, 18:16

I thought that this was supposed to be some kind of a Kimi-thread...

Big Ben

7th June 2007, 18:44

And I don't have the pleasure of knowing Mr Andretti, but your attempt to discredit his opinion based on when was the last time he drove an F1 car is as well something that says more about you that about him.

good one!
but this is logical... it´s off topic mate :) i´m just joking

donKey jote

7th June 2007, 21:34

I simply have no time to dissect and answer bull$hit.
you seem to have plenty of time to answer "bridgestone" though :dozey:
with all "due" respect ioan, keep digging :)

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Valve Bounce

8th June 2007, 00:37

This thread is entitled Kimi, and I think it is only reasonable and less confusing to start a new thread called Fisi vs Alonso.
While I enjoy the injection of a little humour into threads to keep the interest alive and the thread going, I really think it would be out of place for me to say that after Alonso qualified that Minardi without anything more than a shakedown lap at Albert Park, I expected him to walk across the lake that day. He is really a great driver, so let's concentrate on Kimi now.

trumperZ06

8th June 2007, 01:34

[quote="ioan"]I simply have no time to dissect and answer bull$hit.

:dozey: Damn Ioan.... Simply Amazing.

:p :You are so quick witted... and well versed on the finer points of Formula 1 !!!

Here is another fine example of one of your rapier like answers !!! :rolleyes:

Valve Bounce

8th June 2007, 01:59

Yes, Trumper!! it was a great reposte :p :

leopard

8th June 2007, 05:34

There is rumor that Alonso has ritual walking on feet around the track before the race. This might help to throw all unluckiness away, who knows?

trumperZ06

8th June 2007, 07:00

:) Many drivers have slowly bicycled, driven, or walked around the track to get a closure look at its surface ( checking for changes in texture & repaired areas),checking the camber (picticulary looking for off-camber sections), and identify landmarks for aid in braking and turn-in reference points.

This is nothing new.... drivers have been closely inspecting the race course for years & years.

leopard

8th June 2007, 07:23

That is for sure :)

leopard

8th June 2007, 10:16

Trumper, cigar? :D

ioan

8th June 2007, 10:25

you seem to have plenty of time to answer "bridgestone" though :dozey:

Good try! :)

ioan

8th June 2007, 10:28

Everything I post is my own opinion and I\'ll always try to back it up!

So which one is it, then? You might have to change this to something more appropriate to your new mantra...

I said he often posted race laps 1.3 - 2 seconds off Fisi. Often, not always.

No denying that Fisi was on or better than FA's pace three or four races a year and, if anything, this goes against your argument, because it reduces the average per-lap gap to FA for the races when he was off the pace.

ie, often.

There are full spreadsheets out there of lap-by-lap timing from one driver to another, and especially within teams. Indeed, they show quite clearly that Fisi's laps in the crucial first and second stints were often between 1.3 and 2 seconds off FA's pace.

When his own race engineer is chiding him over the radio, saying he cannot possibly be two seconds slower than Alonso, he must have been basing his arguments on lap timing data that was obviously not as accurate as the data you use to form your opinions.

He's sitting there with banks of computers and lap traces for throttle, steering, brakes, g analysts and such minute, obscure data logging you'd barely conceive that it could all be useful.

But somehow, you still know Fisi's lapping habits better than him.

there's a golden rule: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

Can't believe, actually, with your eyes so firmly fixed on MS, that you ever noticed Fisi dawdling around that far back.

No offense but I really said all I had to say about the subject.
It was a good discussion but I have nothing else to add to it. :)

Valve Bounce

8th June 2007, 13:07

Good!! this thread is about Kimi, remember?

trumperZ06

8th June 2007, 15:11

Trumper, cigar? :D

:D THANKS !!!

;) I'll be happy to provide the Jack Daniels... Gentleman Jack !!!

Cya @ the track,

:s mokin: Trumper :s mokin:

Garry Walker

8th June 2007, 15:20

I was called an idiot for saying Massa will beat Kimi. well well :)

Firstgear

8th June 2007, 15:38

No no! You were being called an idiot for all the other things you said.

ioan

8th June 2007, 15:54

Everyone with a different opinion is called an idiot here, so actually it means nothing.

Garry Walker

8th June 2007, 15:55

Everyone with a different opinion is called an idiot here, so actually it mean nothing.

What an idiotic thing to say! :D :p

ioan

8th June 2007, 15:56

What an idiotic thing to say! :D :p

If it wasn't in the forum I would get mad at you! ;)

Garry Walker

8th June 2007, 16:00

If it wasn't in the forum I would get mad at you! ;)

Get mad at me, throw beer bottles at me, make me look at paris hilton pictures, but just please PLEASE dont ask me to become an anthony davidson fan. :D :(

ioan

8th June 2007, 16:10

Back to Kimi. He's doing fine until now in Canada.

Garry Walker

8th June 2007, 16:11

Back to Kimi. He's doing fine until now in Canada.

He has been equal in practises compared to Massa. Come qualy, Massa turns it up and kimi has nothing to give back.

Shalafi

8th June 2007, 17:09

He has been equal in practises compared to Massa. Come qualy, Massa turns it up and kimi has nothing to give back.

Im first to admit that I have been surprised by Kimis lack of pace/Massas great pace. Now Kimi has said he is very comfortable with the car, before he wasnt. If Massa beats him still in qualifying in next two races I have to say that I have overestimated Kimi all these years. But if he turns it around now, then it really was just coming terms with the new team. Next two races will be crucial for Kimi and his reputation.

aryan

8th June 2007, 17:52

I simply have no time to dissect and answer bull$hit.

Everyone with a different idea is not called an idiot. Calling one of the most insightful and informative posts in this whole forums for a long time, bull$hit, makes one an idiot. :rolleyes:

Yes, I know valve, back to Kimi.

ShiftingGears

10th June 2007, 01:59

Well, Kimi was faster than Massa. Less fuel or just faster on the day?

tinchote

10th June 2007, 02:18

Well, Kimi was faster than Massa. Less fuel or just faster on the day?

By less than two tenths, and we don't know about fuel. Hard to say

Shalafi

10th June 2007, 09:17

Well, Kimi was faster than Massa. Less fuel or just faster on the day?

Dont know how much fuel Massa has, but Kimi said that it was as fast as he could go with that fuel load. He is happy how the car behaves and is confident about Ferraris racepace. Of course those McLarens still look frightingly fast...

Ian McC

10th June 2007, 09:22

He has been equal in practises compared to Massa. Come qualy, Massa turns it up and kimi has nothing to give back.

Well qualifying suggested different didn't it.

F1boat

10th June 2007, 13:32

Poor guy, he finally beats Massa, but the car is slow :(

dwf1

10th June 2007, 13:37

I think the real kimi is back after quali

ioan

10th June 2007, 15:30

Well qualifying suggested different didn't it.

Once out of many times! :rolleyes:

janneppi

10th June 2007, 16:13

It's good to see Kimi beat his team mate in quali for once, altough one quali isn't much to base anything about the drivers speeds, this race and next ones should tell if Kimi has really found a suitable setup.

Garry Walker

10th June 2007, 16:27

Once out of many times! :rolleyes:

Kimi will pit before Massa. Then the kimi-fans will then come out with the usual rhetoric "oh, he isnt used to the car still, give him time". how much time does he need then? Maybe we should wait till 2016.

Remember, its still 4:1 for Massa in fair qualis.

Should I remind people by how much Schumi outqualified and destroyed Massa by last year at Canada?

janneppi

10th June 2007, 16:49

Kimi will pit before Massa. Then the kimi-fans will then come out with the usual rhetoric "oh, he isnt used to the car still, give him time". how much time does he need then? Maybe we should wait till 2016.

Remember, its still 4:1 for Massa in fair qualis.
Massa by last year at Canada?
So you think Ferrari has changed tactics? Kimi has pitted later than Massa in all "fair" races (in Australia Massa was in a different strategy as was Kimi in Monaco, and Spain the car failed Kimi before pits.)

Its possible though, as is that Massa didn't find a good enough setup, or he messed up his lap a bit, ot he's not as fast, or...or perhaps the planets were in a conga. :)

jens

10th June 2007, 17:54

Massa was clearly faster than Räikkönen in Q2. Kimi was only 9th in Q2 - or do you think he was so comfortable in getting to Q3 that didn't push at all?

But the race starts soon and we'll get an answer to that...

Ian McC

10th June 2007, 20:21

Kimi will pit before Massa. Then the kimi-fans will then come out with the usual rhetoric "oh, he isnt used to the car still, give him time". how much time does he need then? Maybe we should wait till 2016.

Remember, its still 4:1 for Massa in fair qualis.

Should I remind people by how much Schumi outqualified and destroyed Massa by last year at Canada?

No doubt Kimi fans will defend him in the same way you constantly defend Massa

As it happens Kimi had a poor race, poor start and really wasn't on it all the way through. But he scored points, Massa didn't because he made a very basic mistake. Not a good day for Ferrari.

klm-607

10th June 2007, 20:55

jens

10th June 2007, 21:09

Before the start of the season many people thought here that Räikkönen is that good that he will start beating Massa straightaway and doesn't need even any time to settle in. Now there is a continuous talk that he needs time and time...

Räikkönen is probably the most overrated driver on the grid at the moment.

Eki

10th June 2007, 21:31

wedge

11th June 2007, 00:05

Räikkönen is probably the most overrated driver on the grid at the moment.

No, he's the most disappointing driver on the grid.

He needs to stop falling asleep. It is getting beyond a joke.

jas123f1

11th June 2007, 00:36

I was a big Kimi fan for several years, but now it seems like he's given up or doesn't even care anymore??? What's his deal? Maybe Ferrari should sideline him for a race or 2 & let Schuey show him how it's done ???

I shouldn’t complain him too much :)

2005 after 6 races had Schumi no (0) wins and only one podium place (2)
and he was ones 7th and 3 times out of points.

2006 Schumi had after 6 races won 2 times and 2 more podium places and he was ones 6th (Massa was 5th) and ones out of points.

2007 Kimi has won 1 race of 6 races and has 2 more podium places (3, 3). He has been ones 8th in Monaco (starting as 15th after his mistake in Q2) and 5th today (one up and down race) and ones out of points (when his car had the electrical problem ..

F1MAN2007

11th June 2007, 01:10

At the moment, yes. Or more specifically before this season. Maybe the most overrated driver at the moment is Lewis Hamilton.

I am not the fan of the Kid (Lewis) but what he did today was fantastic even if some peoples may say that he has been the lucky guy of today coz everytime the SC was deployed it was in his advantage.

He is a fantastic guy. At least for his first time in F1, he is giving beyond the expectations!!! Congratulations to him!!

leopard

11th June 2007, 04:51

Originally Posted by jens View Post
Before the start of the season many people thought here that Räikkönen is that good that he will start beating Massa straightaway and doesn't need even any time to settle in. Now there is a continuous talk that he needs time and time...

Räikkönen is probably the most overrated driver on the grid at the moment.

At the moment, yes. Or more specifically before this season. Maybe the most overrated driver at the moment is Lewis Hamilton.
at least he needn't continuous talk that he needs time and time ...

wmcot

11th June 2007, 05:55

Kimi is definitely no MS! I remember MS having the ability to drive around problems like a piece of debris stuck in a wing. Kimi seems to need the perfect car to be fast. He CAN be fast, but only in the right situations! What happened to those great drives from the back of the grid??? He seems to have lost HIS (internal) drive! Maybe the too much money and too much partying has caught up with him. It seems like his interests lie somewhere other than the racetrack!

janneppi

11th June 2007, 06:43

Apparently something hit Kimi's car when Kubica crashed, after that he lost some grip in the front and he had brake problems after first SC period.
That doesn't explain hanging around behind Rosberger for twenty laps though.

19th June 2007, 17:43

Right Kimi, you had the two North American races and didn't even manage a podium.

In both races the car was capable of a podium.
In both races you were behind your vastly less well paid team-mate.

So how does knuckle down and start working like a would-be champion or **** off sound?

ioan

19th June 2007, 17:54

He surely messed up the start, again, but otherwise I feel he might have beaten Felipe on this occasion and maybe even take the fight to the macs, just maybe.

Viktory

19th June 2007, 17:59

yeah his start at Indy was terrible. But his speed at the end, and setting the fastest lap of the race has brought my hopes up for him. See if he can improve on it in France.. Sure hope so.

Eki

19th June 2007, 19:43

He surely messed up the start, again, but otherwise I feel he might have beaten Felipe on this occasion and maybe even take the fight to the macs, just maybe.
That's a possibility. Kimi started the race with hard compound tires unlike the most because he didn't have any fresh soft compound tires left and thought that fresh hard compound would be better than worn soft compound. Maybe that's part of the reason he got a bad start. Even Massa has questioned Kimi's choice of tires.

raikk

20th June 2007, 06:20

goo baaaccck to Mcclaaaarreeen Kiiimmii! Goooo baaackkk!

:D

wmcot

20th June 2007, 06:27

pino

20th June 2007, 06:34

Pitpass just launched a rumor today that Kimi will go to Toyota next season to replace Ralf. Any idea who will go to Ferrari?

I don't put too much faith into the whole thing and even PitPass were not willing to say it's a done deal...

Link: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31824

Indeed a crazy rumour, ok things don't go too well for him at Ferrari at the moment but Toyota ??? :eek: I don't think he's that crazy :p :

wmcot

20th June 2007, 06:48

Indeed a crazy rumour, ok things don't go too well for him at Ferrari at the moment but Toyota ??? :eek: I don't think he's that crazy :p :

Maybe they'll pay him even more than they're paying Ralf $$$$. He can party all he wants and he won't be expected to do too much in the car.

Juppe

20th June 2007, 08:03

Maybe they'll pay him even more than they're paying Ralf $$$$. He can party all he wants and he won't be expected to do too much in the car.

I don't think so - If Kimi should quit Ferrari, I'm quite certain he will quit the sport altogether.

Anyways - the start was horrible, but that aside he was clearly faster than Massa in the race for the first time.

That creates some hope that Kimi is finally starting to figure out how to drive the car and the tires. Despite the podium finish, Massa was not happy at all... I doubt either of them will be able to fight for the WDC this season unless something disasterous happens at McLaren, but other than that it looks like it wil be an interesting rest of the season.

ioan

20th June 2007, 09:36

I don't think so - If Kimi should quit Ferrari, I'm quite certain he will quit the sport altogether.

Anyways - the start was horrible, but that aside he was clearly faster than Massa in the race for the first time.

That creates some hope that Kimi is finally starting to figure out how to drive the car and the tires. Despite the podium finish, Massa was not happy at all... I doubt either of them will be able to fight for the WDC this season unless something disasterous happens at McLaren, but other than that it looks like it wil be an interesting rest of the season.

If they start getting 1-2s than they can haul themselves back in contention 2 or 3 races before the end of the season.
A few wet races might help them also, as I think that Hamilton might be slower than a few of them in the rain, so watch out for Spa.

SteveA

20th June 2007, 09:51

A few wet races might help them also, as I think that Hamilton might be slower than a few of them in the rain, so watch out for Spa.

Lewis in the wet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt_PJqM-sRc

Glad I'm going to Spa this year ;)

Ranger

20th June 2007, 10:06

Lewis in the wet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt_PJqM-sRc

Glad I'm going to Spa this year ;)

Regardless, that was 9 years ago... doesn't mean much now. All drivers have their bad days, one of which will probably happen to Hamilton this year. Alonso and Schumacher had their share of bad races last year.

ioan

20th June 2007, 10:20

Lewis in the wet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt_PJqM-sRc

He was certainly not up against the likes of FA, KR, NH, GF or AS (Sutil :D ) there.

Ranger

20th June 2007, 14:39

Stop, Press!

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2429882,00.html

Needless to say, it IS from the Bild.

555-04Q2

20th June 2007, 15:28

Stop, Press!

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2429882,00.html

Needless to say, it IS from the Bild.

It is from the Bild, but watch that space.

ioan

20th June 2007, 16:13

It's interesting to see that these rumors surface after one of his best to date GPs with Ferrari.

Valve Bounce

20th June 2007, 22:56

I have absolutely nothing to do with these rumours.

Valve Bounce

20th June 2007, 23:22

There is also speculation that Kimi will be partnering Jarno Trulli next year.

race aficionado

20th June 2007, 23:47

All this speculation goes hand in hand with a
"Who would have thunk it!"

Kimi was supposed to take over where Michael left off, their new young leader, the Ice Man, finally in a Ferrari, the team where all racers dream to be a part of.

The fun now of course is to see how Kimi reacts to what is happening. And if the interviews are correct, Kimi is not giving up and is just hoping to get the car just right, so that it can battle with the 2 MacLarens.

Will it happen???????? It is for us to fortunately get to see.

And I'm also rooting for Massa - all very exciting indeed.

:s mokin:

Valve Bounce

21st June 2007, 00:00

All this speculation goes hand in hand with a
"Who would have thunk it!"

Kimi was supposed to take over where Michael left off, their new young leader, the Ice Man, finally in a Ferrari, the team where all racers dream to be a part of.

:s mokin:

I thought Kimi would have been racing ahead after hitting the ground running. I think I said as much, as I felt he was the fastest driver in F1 for three years now.

Having said that, and to be fair, the modern F1 car does take a little getting used to.

TMorel

21st June 2007, 23:19

andreag

22nd June 2007, 00:21

Valve:
You said that the modern F1 car does take a little getting used to.
Do you think that Lewis has a major advantage over Fernando and Kimi by not having to "unlearn" something that they'd made almost part of themselves?
How fast is everyone forgetting the "Brigestone factor". Before the season starts most of the discussions were about how long would take for the Michelin drivers to adapt to the new tyres.

Now it seems it doesn't matter, but the performance of most of the drivers used to the Bridgestones last year (Hamilton, Massa, Trulli, Rosberg and Sato), is better than it was after 7 races in 2006; in some cases much better.

Only Webber and Ralf are getting worst results (and Mark was on a better car for the first 7 races last year). Christijan Albers had the same points than this year, zero.

On the opposite, most of the drivers used to Michelin last year (Alonso, Fisichella, Barrichello, Coulthard and Button), are getting worst results this year on the first 7 races.

Heidfeld is doing better, and Raikkönen is just a little bit better this year (despite the fact than he has scored on six races for only five last year).

So, only Ralf and Heidfeld are the exceptions to the rule, but in the rest of the cases the experience with the Bridgestone tyres is giving an advantage.

Valve Bounce

22nd June 2007, 00:56

Valve:
You said that the modern F1 car does take a little getting used to.
Do you think that Lewis has a major advantage over Fernando and Kimi by not having to "unlearn" something that they'd made almost part of themselves?

There are three things I can think of that can affect Kimi's performance.

1. The cars are different: For example the Maserati 250F is claimed to be the easiest Grand Prix car to drive and a favourite of many greats; the Ferrari of that time was an absolute pig and some even claim that it was dangerous to drive. Maybe the same applies to the current cars with so many things changing from year to year.

2. Lifestyles: The difference between a non drinking year and one of partying and guzzling virtually anything can mean the difference between getting Distinctions and Credits and flunking every bloody subject in a year's engineering course. And I can say this without any fear of contradition.

3. Personalities: And herein lies the mystery, because two eyars ago, I labelled Kimi as having a very steep learning curve and destined to be th efastest driver in F1. I know very little about Lewis Hamilton except he appears to be much more of a family man.

So herein lies the difference in performance; One has to ask whether the cars are different to learn, whether the lifestyle has caught up with Kimi, and whether the difference in personalities means Lewis Hamilton is more dedicated to learning every single aspect of driving fast and racing smart.

And I cannot claim to know the answers to all three questions.

ioan

22nd June 2007, 09:44

How fast is everyone forgetting the "Brigestone factor". Before the season starts most of the discussions were about how long would take for the Michelin drivers to adapt to the new tyres.

About as fact as forgetting that this year's Bridgestones are a diffrenet construction, thus negating the advantages that teams using Bridgestones in the past would have had.

Only Webber and Ralf are getting worst results (and Mark was on a better car for the first 7 races last year).

Last year's Williams was better than this year's RedBull???

Christijan Albers had the same points than this year, zero.

And that isn't about to change. Really not a fact to support a theory about tires.

On the opposite, most of the drivers used to Michelin last year (Alonso, Fisichella, Barrichello, Coulthard and Button), are getting worst results this year on the first 7 races.

McLaren didn't win a race last year using Michelins, still they won 4 this year using Bridgestones (2 of them won by Alonso), It doesn't seems to me that they are having troubles because of the tires.

Heidfeld is doing better, and Raikkönen is just a little bit better this year (despite the fact than he has scored on six races for only five last year).

Heidfled and BMW are for sure not hindered by the Bridgestone shift.
And Kimi did record a win in the first race of the year, something not likely last season.

but in the rest of the cases the experience with the Bridgestone tyres is giving an advantage.

I doubt it, and the only one team that complained that the tire shift hit them was Renault who was having a very very profound designing relationship with Michelin. But even they did acknowledge that the design of the car was the main problem.

pino

22nd June 2007, 09:53

There is also speculation that Kimi will be partnering Jarno Trulli next year.

Noway ! I've just heard Montezemolo on ital tv saying, Kimi is not a problem, he's a great confidence in him, and he will stay at Ferrari ! End of the story guys :p :

ioan

22nd June 2007, 10:01

Noway ! I've just heard Montezemolo on ital tv saying, Kimi is not a problem, he's a great confidence in him, and he will stay at Ferrari ! End of the story guys :p :

What do you expect him to say?
After all he wanted MS out to bring KR in, he won't say he was wrong, is it?

pino

22nd June 2007, 10:10

What do you expect him to say?
After all he wanted MS out to bring KR in, he won't say he was wrong, is it?

He wanted MS out ? :s never heard Luca saying that...well never mind, this is about Kimi...not MS ;)

jas123f1

22nd June 2007, 10:46

How fast is everyone forgetting the "Brigestone factor". Before the season starts most of the discussions were about how long would take for the Michelin drivers to adapt to the new tyres.

Now it seems it doesn't matter, but the performance of most of the drivers used to the Bridgestones last year (Hamilton, Massa, Trulli, Rosberg and Sato), is better than it was after 7 races in 2006; in some cases much better.

Only Webber and Ralf are getting worst results (and Mark was on a better car for the first 7 races last year). Christijan Albers had the same points than this year, zero.

On the opposite, most of the drivers used to Michelin last year (Alonso, Fisichella, Barrichello, Coulthard and Button), are getting worst results this year on the first 7 races.

Heidfeld is doing better, and Raikkönen is just a little bit better this year (despite the fact than he has scored on six races for only five last year).

So, only Ralf and Heidfeld are the exceptions to the rule, but in the rest of the cases the experience with the Bridgestone tyres is giving an advantage.

I think you have a point here.
I think "Michelin drivers" and Kimi as well had more grip in their cars and used to be driving more aggressive last year, than it’s possible with Bridgestone and it takes some time to find a new compromise between their cars, Bridgestone and their driving. And before you can start to changes something you also must know what to do. It usually takes a time to changes people’s way to thinking which is neccessary before they are able to make the changes you need in the car (and it really doesn't make it easyer if the other driver same time is more pleased with the car).

But however are times changing and it seams to me today, that Ferrari (and especially Kimi and "his team") are on the right way to thinking and al ready taking steps forward. Kimis performance on the track is today (at any rate) very close to Massas, if not at the same level and it wouldn’t surprise me if he is even faster than Massa in the future. I think also, that it’s possible to be faster than McLaren – even if the gap the moment looks to be big - but seeing that it’s not depending on the drivers there is no reason to believe something other.. :)

andreag

22nd June 2007, 16:25

Last year's Williams was better than this year's RedBull???
Absolutely after the first seven races (that's what I said); last year Williams had 10 points and Red Bull 8, after the first 7 races (and take in mind that the seventh race was Monaco, where Coulthard scored 6 of the 8 Red Bull's points, as the score after six races was 10-2 to Williams).

And that isn't about to change. Really not a fact to support a theory about tires.
I'm not supporting a theory on Albers, as he is an excepction to this theory (drivers used to BS are doing better); he is not doing better or worse, he's just doing the same; therefore he shouldn't be taken in mind.

McLaren didn't win a race last year using Michelins, still they won 4 this year using Bridgestones (2 of them won by Alonso), It doesn't seems to me that they are having troubles because of the tires.
I'm talking about drivers used to Bridgestone and drivers used to Michelin. McLaren is a team with a driver of each type. If we look at the first seven races of the 2006 GP2 championship, and score them as in F1, Hamilton would have 39 points (now is having 58, 19 more). On the other side, Alonso had 64 points after last year's first 7 races (now is having 48, 16 less).
Anyone should see it.

Heidfled and BMW are for sure not hindered by the Bridgestone shift.
I said Heidfeld was an exception, but last year BMW wasn't even close to what is this year.

And Kimi did record a win in the first race of the year, something not likely last season.
He didn't win last year, but 27 points in 5 finished races (32 in six finished races this year), and more important, he advanced 29 positions on this 5 races (including 19, from 22nd to 3rd on Bahrain), while he has advanced just 7 positions on the six races he finished this year.
Once again it looks like he had a better performance last year. And if we compare him with his teammate, in 2006 he was winning 27 to 23 points after 7 races, and this year he's loosing 32 to 39. His car didn't win a race last year, as his teammates cars did; but this year, being in a car that's winning races, he did it just once, by twice his teammate (who's used to Bridgestones, by the way).

... the only one team that complained that the tire shift hit them was Renault who was having a very very profound designing relationship with Michelin.
I wouldn't say the only team; look at Honda, 23 points last year, 2 points this year.

ioan

22nd June 2007, 16:57

I'm talking about drivers used to Bridgestone and drivers used to Michelin. McLaren is a team with a driver of each type. If we look at the first seven races of the 2006 GP2 championship, and score them as in F1, Hamilton would have 39 points (now is having 58, 19 more). On the other side, Alonso had 64 points after last year's first 7 races (now is having 48, 16 less).
Anyone should see it.

Alonso was not facing the same competition last year as this year, so I wouldn't put it down to the tire performance but more to the Ferrari having a better start to the season than 1 year ago.

He didn't win last year, but 27 points in 5 finished races (32 in six finished races this year), and more important, he advanced 29 positions on this 5 races (including 19, from 22nd to 3rd on Bahrain), while he has advanced just 7 positions on the six races he finished this year.

The fact that Kimi chose to impact the barriers in Monaco has little to do with the tire shift, the same for his engine problems in Sepang and the electrical problem in Spain. If not for mechanical and electrical problems and driver errors he would had even more points compared to last season.

As for gained positions, he surely can't come from 22nd to 3rd if he qualifys at the front end of the grid, is it?

Once again it looks like he had a better performance last year.

Only that the POV is utterly wrong.

andreag

22nd June 2007, 17:23

If not for mechanical and electrical problems and driver errors he would had even more points compared to last season.
Mechanical and electrical problems, and driver errors made him out of 2 races last year (only once this year), made him start one race on the 22nd position last year (worst start this year has been 16th), and made him loose a place, 4th to 5th.

This year he had qualified first in one race, finishing first, twice qualified 3rd finishing 3rd, twice qualified 4th finishing 4th and 5th, and once qualified 16th finishing 8th (his only race finishing better than he started).

Last year he qualified 4th in one race, finishing 2nd, once qualified 5th finishing 4th, once qualified 8th finishing 4th, once qualified 9th finishing 5th, and once qualified 22nd, finishing 3rd (he finished every race better than he started).

He hasn't been close to last year position improvement.

And it's not a matter of POV, numbers are there.

ioan

22nd June 2007, 17:28

And it's not a matter of POV, numbers are there.

What I meant is that you see everything from the perspective of the tire shift for those drivers while other things clearly had a greater influence on their results. ;)

andreag

22nd June 2007, 18:14

ioan

22nd June 2007, 18:19

Sorry double post.

ioan

22nd June 2007, 18:20

Of course there are many factors in a driver performance, but I was pointing there were a common one in some more drivers (al least 10) who are getting better or worse results this year depending on the fact of using Michelin or Bridgestone last year.

And being something common to such a number of drivers, it should be considered.

Given that this season the Bridgestones are very different from what they got before, and taking into account that all of them tested extensively the new tires before the season started ( thousands of kms done in testing ) I fail to see how the tires can still be considered such a major reason for bad results when they all use the same ones.
Not to mention that the team that, according to many around here, had a privileged relation with Bridgestone, is outperformed by an ex Michelin team.

TMorel

22nd June 2007, 18:28

I agree, we should all look at the numbers, and from that we can see that having 7 race starts means you get more points than having 94 race starts and therefore must be a better driver... hey, the numbers don't lie.

Now, I wonder what comparison we can draw between the number of bottles of vodka drank per stripclub Vs the number of times you pulled over for your illustrious former teammate

Valve Bounce

23rd June 2007, 03:33

I'll go way out on a limb here and suggest that if Kimi gave up guzzling and nightclubbing, his on track performance would improve markedly.

jjanicke

23rd June 2007, 08:53

Given that this season the Bridgestones are very different from what they got before, and taking into account that all of them tested extensively the new tires before the season started ( thousands of kms done in testing ) I fail to see how the tires can still be considered such a major reason for bad results when they all use the same ones.
Not to mention that the team that, according to many around here, had a privileged relation with Bridgestone, is outperformed by an ex Michelin team.

Have you somehow been able to compare these two generation of tires? I can't recall ever seeing your name posted on a lap time chart, and I'm certain F1 tires are driven by F1 drivers (with lap times)!

Thanks for your opinion, as that's all it is, an opinion.

Alonso, Kimi, and several other x-Michelin drivers have mentioned not being 100% with the tires. However Kimi's strong pace from the USGP leads me to believe he's finding his form. I can't wait to see him turn it on and start challenging for wins.

aryan

23rd June 2007, 09:44

Now it seems it doesn't matter, but the performance of most of the drivers used to the Bridgestones last year (Hamilton, Massa, Trulli, Rosberg and Sato), is better than it was after 7 races in 2006; in some cases much better.

The GP2 Bridgies are probably as similar to F1 tyres as my Michlin Pilot Exaltos with the previous year F1 tyre.

Nick Heidfeld anyone?

jjanicke

23rd June 2007, 20:03

The GP2 Bridgies are probably as similar to F1 tyres as my Michlin Pilot Exaltos with the previous year F1 tyre.

Nick Heidfeld anyone?

I would tend to believe the construction of a GP2 BS and F1 BS to be fairly similar. At least significantly more similar than your pilots, although I have nothing to prove it. GP2 after all mirrors most specifications of F1, with the exception of being a spec series. Interestingly this years BS is a "spec" tire. hmmm......

ioan

23rd June 2007, 21:57

I would tend to believe the construction of a GP2 BS and F1 BS to be fairly similar. At least significantly more similar than your pilots, although I have nothing to prove it. GP2 after all mirrors most specifications of F1, with the exception of being a spec series. Interestingly this years BS is a "spec" tire. hmmm......

Well, all the tires are round and are made to roll, it doesn't mean they are all the same.

Just think about the aerodynamic loads and power differences between F1 and GP2. ;)

Valve Bounce

24th June 2007, 00:05

.............and I think the compounds are different.

Ian McC

24th June 2007, 10:52

I'll go way out on a limb here and suggest that if Kimi gave up guzzling and nightclubbing, his on track performance would improve markedly.

I think, as usual, the press exaggerate his off track activities by a large amount.

Valve Bounce

24th June 2007, 11:10

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2444063,00.html

Interesting that this mentions SchM is helping Massa, rather than both drivers.

jens

24th June 2007, 11:24

The "thing" with Räikkönen is that he has been a "prediction-WDC" at least for 3-4 times... And also already before this season he got overwhelmingly most votes. It looks like people believe that he is so good that once must come his year. In the past I used to think the same way, but now it looks like he may never get the title. Even Heidfeld's title looks more possible in the future, also considering teams' progresses!

aryan

24th June 2007, 12:22

I would tend to believe the construction of a GP2 BS and F1 BS to be fairly similar.

My friend,

The GP2 and F1 cars have vastly different widths and aerodynamic characteristics. Their speeds and loads differ greatly. I do remember Bridgstone themselves saying that the two tyres are not similar at all, thought I am too lazy to go Google around to find the exact quote.

This tyre familiarity is way overblown. Good racers adjust quickly to any change.

andreag

24th June 2007, 12:55

Good racers adjust quickly to any change.
Can you define "quickly" in numeric terms?

7 races, 4 differents tyre compounds.

ioan

24th June 2007, 17:10

Can you define "quickly" in numeric terms?

7 races, 4 differents tyre compounds.

One day of testing should be enough.

ojciec dyrektor

24th June 2007, 19:27

One day of testing should be enough.
One day of testing to change drive style? :confused: Piece of cake! :D

ioan

24th June 2007, 20:47

That's what usually took them to asses which tire works better out several types.
Why would they need more than 7 races and thousands of kms to do the same thing while others did it right away (ie Nick Heidfeld)?!

They are lucky with this tire manufacturer swap, otherwise they would have to come up with other excuses.

ojciec dyrektor

24th June 2007, 21:17

Why would they need more than 7 races and thousands of kms to do the same thing while others did it right away (ie Nick Heidfeld)?!

Alonso, Raikkonen and Kubica too prefers aggresive style while Nick is simply quick :)

Nicks style suites to Bridgestone, while aggresive drivers have to change their habit.

andreag

25th June 2007, 01:39

One day of testing should be enough.
So all teams are really wasting their money ding so many test sessions.

ioan

25th June 2007, 10:40

So all teams are really wasting their money ding so many test sessions.

They are not testing to improve the drivers, they test to improve the cars.

Big Ben

25th June 2007, 10:50

One day of testing to change drive style? :confused: Piece of cake! :D

If some forum members can change there style on their new sofas in one day of testing so should drivers with new cars... after all there isn´t much difference between watching F1 and driving a F1 car.... during the Australian GP KR almost fell asleep... just like me...

SteveA

25th June 2007, 10:59

I found that since I fitted Bridgestone casters to the sofa, sitting down too aggressively causes it to swerve into the wall. The Michellin casters were much more forgiving.

Flat.tyres

25th June 2007, 11:08

I found that since I fitted Bridgestone casters to the sofa, sitting down too aggressively causes it to swerve into the wall. The Michellin casters were much more forgiving.

yes, but they increased in width over a GP. now, I'm not saying your carrying a few extra pounds and im not saying your not, but the way these tests are measured will have to change before the next GP to ensure the bridgestone performs better ;)

SteveA

25th June 2007, 11:26

Yes, I hadn't considered the extra weight. I'm usually fueled to the end, although occasionally a pit stop is necessary.

Valve Bounce

25th June 2007, 11:49

Yeah!! me too :(

Flat.tyres

25th June 2007, 11:51

Yes, I hadn't considered the extra weight. I'm usually fueled to the end, although occasionally a pit stop is necessary.

:laugh:

last thing you need is a blow out towards the end of a race.

SteveA

25th June 2007, 12:28

:laugh:

last thing you need is a blow out towards the end of a race.

Indeed. Its the tail wind you have to be careful about. If you don't pit in time you can easily lose control, leaving skid marks where you went off.

Valve Bounce

25th June 2007, 13:19

Oh poo!! :eek:

aryan

26th June 2007, 13:16

Can you define "quickly" in numeric terms?

7 races, 4 differents tyre compounds.

Quickly as in half of Friday testing. The other half should be spent on finding the ultimate setup.

Racing drivers don't have one and only one defined driving style, they have a dozen and they pick and adjust their styles according to the circumstances. If there are any drivers in F1 who only have one unflexible style and can't adjust to a change of tyre manufacturer over half a season, well they shouldn't be in F1 in the first place!

Roamy

26th June 2007, 14:48

Alonso, Raikkonen and Kubica too prefers aggresive style while Nick is simply quick :)

Nicks style suites to Bridgestone, while aggresive drivers have to change their habit.

so thats what happened to Jensen Button. - Thanks for the info

Flat.tyres

26th June 2007, 16:17

so thats what happened to Jensen Button. - Thanks for the info

common sense 1. Armchair 0.

:laugh: very good :D

RaikkonenRules

26th June 2007, 20:27

Indeed. Its the tail wind you have to be careful about. If you don't pit in time you can easily lose control, leaving skid marks where you went off.

or if your fuel supply bursts you will leave all sorts of fluid on the track. :laugh:

Crypt

26th June 2007, 22:58

Valve Bounce

27th June 2007, 00:22

or if your fuel supply bursts you will leave all sorts of fluid on the track. :laugh:

Heavens help you when your storage tank's pipes burst. :eek:

Valve Bounce

27th June 2007, 00:23

aryan

27th June 2007, 09:01

But every chance he gets to test the car in a non-race scenario, is a great learning experience.

Of course, but the point is you don't actually learn when you think there is nothing more for you to learn.

Disclaimer: I am not a Kimi basher, and he is my second-best favourite driver on the grid. If I am critical of him, it's because he hasn't met many of his supporters' expectations.

555-04Q2

27th June 2007, 13:10

I gave Kimi 2007 to really adjust to Ferrari, I never even expected him to win his first GP with them. That was a treat. Yes he's an agressive driver, and I think he should spend a bit more time in the garage. But every chance he gets to test the car in a non-race scenario, is a great learning experience.

Some learn quicker than others I suppose.

The problem is everyone hyped him up as the one to dominate at Ferrari (both armchair critics like ourselves and the men in the know), destroy MS if he stayed and make Massa his lapdog if he raced against him. Now that it hasnt happened the excuses come out.

I really wish he was doing better cause then Ferrari would be doing better.

buckwheat

27th June 2007, 18:18

At the moment he's doing a damn fine impersonation of somebody who shouldn't get a dime, let alone $20million more dollars than his team-mate.

So when is he going to start acting the way the driver Ferrari pay the biggest wage in Formula One should, because for me he is a joke today.

Oh Peleasssee - Kimi's the best driver on the whole course and you all know it.

He just doesn't give a dam - about you, Ferrari, Mclaren, Ron, Alonzo, Massa, the track, the car, NOTHING.

He's repeatedly stated "my only job is simply to get the car around the track as fast as possible". That makes him the best DRIVER, not the best F1 advocate. DC, Reubens etc all work the other 20% of the press to give them THEIR edge.

If I was Kimi, I'd just retire and be done with it. Yacht is paid for. I told him that, he grinned.

If I was Bernie, I'd see to it Kimi was put into Alber's car, then get rid of Albers once and for all.

Yes, if *I* were boss I'd sure fix things up huh? lol