2024 Race 17 Azerbaijan

[F1nKS]

The big news is Newey is going to Aston Martin, and Mercedes is finally announcing Antonelli.

I ran some numbers, and unless it has some DNF, it is going to be hard for Norris to come from behind.

[Zico]

Norris only 17th... what a huge blow to his title chances. Along with McLaren not having Piastri support him for the last few races... this all but ends his challenge.

[airshifter]

It looks like Ferrari might still be in the hunt for the constructors championship as well.

It's great to see several cars capable of being at the front again. And I'm not even sure the qually will show the whole picture, it still could be an interesting race.


Well done for Williams to get both cars in the top 10, but how in the world do you miss a cooler that big? I'm sure somebody's head is already rolling.

[N. Jones]

What a race.
What a race.

I'm still not sure who is at fault for the crash.

[Used to be Starter]

What a race.
What a race.

I'm still not sure who is at fault for the crash.

It's going to take a few slo-mo replays to figure that out.

[The Black Knight]

What a race.
What a race.

I'm still not sure who is at fault for the crash.
All commentators seem to blame Sainz but I've to disagree. It was unrealistic of Perez to expect that Sainz would drive close to the wall the entire way up the straight. He could have pulled over to the left and still made the move stick, the squeeze was completely unnecessary. Plus Sainz was ahead so he is entitled to take the racing line. A bit of intelligence from Perez and he could have had 3rd position, possibly 2nd. He did the same in Monaco, okay a little but greyer there, and paid the price then as well.

[Nitrodaze]

What a race!


PIASTRI !!!

What a racer!

[Nitrodaze]

All commentators seem to blame Sainz but I've to disagree. It was unrealistic of Perez to expect that Sainz would drive close to the wall the entire way up the straight. He could have pulled over to the left and still made the move stick, the squeeze was completely unnecessary. Plus Sainz was ahead so he is entitled to take the racing line. A bit of intelligence from Perez and he could have had 3rd position, possibly 2nd. He did the same in Monaco, okay a little but greyer there, and paid the price then as well.

If you get a chance to watch the overhead shot of that part of the race, you see that Perez gave Sainz a full car's width within the white line. Sainz drifted into Perez chasing after the slipstream from Ferrari ahead which was in front of him for a short while. But when Leclerc moved into the middle of the track, the slipstream shifted from Sainz to Perez. I think Sainz was trying to stay in the slipstream and moved sideways into Perez who was now in the slipstream and was not going to give it up.

Perez was blameless in that crash. The stewards have called it a racing incident. But l think Sainz got away with it.

[Matthew]

What a race!


PIASTRI !!!

What a racer!

It was a superb driver by Oscar but Lando also played his part very well for McLaren, first to hold off Sergio Perez and then finished the race ahead of Max.

[The Black Knight]

If you get a chance to watch the overhead shot of that part of the race, you see that Perez gave Sainz a full car's width within the white line. Sainz drifted into Perez chasing after the slipstream from Ferrari ahead which was in front of him for a short while. But when Leclerc moved into the middle of the track, the slipstream shifted from Sainz to Perez. I think Sainz was trying to stay in the slipstream and moved sideways into Perez who was now in the slipstream and was not going to give it up.

Perez was blameless in that crash. The stewards have called it a racing incident. But l think Sainz got away with it.

Disagree. It was unrealistic of Perez to expect Sainz to stay against the wall the entire way down the straight. A thinking driver would have given Sainz more space. Sainz was ahead with limited visibility to of where Perez was relative to him. Perez, on the other hand, had full visibility of what was happening and should have been able to predict that Sainz was likely to move left. Ultimately it comes down to who could have avoided the accident - both. But who ho had the greater chance of avoiding the accident? Definitely Perez.

[Nitrodaze]

Disagree. It was unrealistic of Perez to expect Sainz to stay against the wall the entire way down the straight. A thinking driver would have given Sainz more space. Sainz was ahead with limited visibility to of where Perez was relative to him. Perez, on the other hand, had full visibility of what was happening and should have been able to predict that Sainz was likely to move left. Ultimately it comes down to who could have avoided the accident - both. But who ho had the greater chance of avoiding the accident? Definitely Perez.

You are usually right about these sorts of incidents. But maybe you should watch this one again. This is what SkySport F1 had to say about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnCgiVzg518

It is a shame since Sainz could have finished 2nd. He was the fastest of the top four cars at that stage of the race. Also a shame for Perez, who may have had his best finish this year and beating Verstappen fair and square in the same machinery. We missed out on some more interesting racing to the line. We will never know if a Ferrari win may have materialized in those last few laps.

[The Black Knight]

You are usually right about these sorts of incidents. But maybe you should watch this one again. This is what SkySport F1 had to say about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnCgiVzg518

It is a shame since Sainz could have finished 2nd. He was the fastest of the top four cars at that stage of the race. Also a shame for Perez, who may have had his best finish this year and beating Verstappen fair and square in the same machinery. We missed out on some more interesting racing to the line. We will never know if a Ferrari win may have materialized in those last few laps.

I saw what Sky Sports had to say live on air. I don’t agree with it and I wish Anthony Davidson was analysing that one as I think he’d be of the same opinion as me. They haven’t taken all factors into consideration. Overall I think the Stewards got this one right in not penalising either driver, however, I still must lay more of the blame on the guy who had 100% view of everything that was and could happen, not the guy who couldn’t see the other properly and had little room.

[Steve Boyd]

I still must lay more of the blame on the guy who had 100% view of everything that was and could happen, not the guy who couldn’t see the other properly and had little room.That was basically Mark Webber's summary on the UK Channel 4 TV highlights.

[Nitrodaze]

I saw what Sky Sports had to say live on air. I don’t agree with it and I wish Anthony Davidson was analysing that one as I think he’d be of the same opinion as me. They haven’t taken all factors into consideration. Overall I think the Stewards got this one right in not penalising either driver, however, I still must lay more of the blame on the guy who had 100% view of everything that was and could happen, not the guy who couldn’t see the other properly and had little room.

That was my initial thought, but l took another look and thought Sainz could also have slowed down knowing it was not practical to carry on at speed with part of the car off track. They both put their foot down and Sainz in a compromised position risked losing it which he did and crashed into Perez. Why should Perez slow down or make it easy for Sainz? This is a race. It is up to Sainz to make a judgment call and realize that his dirty tires off track may compromise his chances of getting past Perez and possibly cause a loss of control.

The thing most are missing is that Perez would have to give up the slipstream from Leclerc, to make way for Sainz who would inherit the slipstream as a consequence. Perez did what any racing driver with a brain would do, hanging out to dry and forcing him to slow down or crash.

[Nitrodaze]

As an aside, isn't it interesting that the end of the race at Baku has some similarity with Abu Dhabi 2021? The stewards in this race followed the rules appropriately, with a safety car convoy to the end of the race as it has been done for years. But at Abu Dhabi, dodgy Masi allows them to race to the line with one lap to go.

[N. Jones]

They wanted that drama in 2021.

[The Black Knight]

That was my initial thought, but l took another look and thought Sainz could also have slowed down knowing it was not practical to carry on at speed with part of the car off track. They both put their foot down and Sainz in a compromised position risked losing it which he did and crashed into Perez. Why should Perez slow down or make it easy for Sainz? This is a race. It is up to Sainz to make a judgment call and realize that his dirty tires off track may compromise his chances of getting past Perez and possibly cause a loss of control.

The thing most are missing is that Perez would have to give up the slipstream from Leclerc, to make way for Sainz who would inherit the slipstream as a consequence. Perez did what any racing driver with a brain would do, hanging out to dry and forcing him to slow down or crash.

You’ve this backwards man. Sainz was ahead and it’s up to the following driver to complete the overtake. Stating that a driver leading should have slowed down in anyway is way off and utterly bananas. He was under no obligation to help Perez. His job is to stay ahead, he did exactly as every lead driver would be entitled to do, took the racing line. The responsibility is on Perez to get by, he didn’t do that. The tow to Leclerc is irrelevant and doesn’t strengthen Checo’s position. Perez should have known Sainz wasn’t going to stay up against the wall. Much like Monaco it was simply another dead brain moment from him.

And if you’re now stating that Perez gave Sainz the slow down or crash ultimatum, then you’re admitting he didn’t give him enough room which is also an admission of guilt for Checo.

[Nitrodaze]

They wanted that drama in 2021.

I get that, they are paid to implement the rules, not make up new rules on the fly because it seemed like a good idea or have been bribed to produce a specific outcome.

[Nitrodaze]

You’ve this backwards man. Sainz was ahead and it’s up to the following driver to complete the overtake. Stating that a driver leading should have slowed down in anyway is way off and utterly bananas. He was under no obligation to help Perez. His job is to stay ahead, he did exactly as every lead driver would be entitled to do, took the racing line. The responsibility is on Perez to get by, he didn’t do that. The tow to Leclerc is irrelevant and doesn’t strengthen Checo’s position. Perez should have known Sainz wasn’t going to stay up against the wall. Much like Monaco it was simply another dead brain moment from him.

And if you’re now stating that Perez gave Sainz the slow down or crash ultimatum, then you’re admitting he didn’t give him enough room which is also an admission of guilt for Checo.

Sorry, you missed the point that Sainz was already on track within the white lines before he moved left and touched tires with the Redbull. Yes, he was ahead, but he cannot take the racing line while another car is more than halfway alongside him and on the racing line, that would produce a crash otherwise which it did. Mind you, the contact was between the rear tires of both cars touching, that is how far up alongside Perez was.

Besides, Sainz had more to lose, hence should have used his head to make sure it was a clean pass. I think he may have won the race or finished second at worst, if he were able to pass Perez cleanly. He did not need to move left in an attempt to squeeze Perez. All he had to do was to use his tire advantage to get through without contact.

That in-the-moment intelligence is what separates the great drivers from the rest. Something that Sainz has to learn. Put Piastri in that situation, l am very sure the move would have been completed successfully without contact.

[Steve Boyd]

Mind you, the contact was between the rear tires of both cars touching, that is how far up alongside Perez was.Take another look. The centre of Perez's front axle was just ahead of the centre of Sains' rear axle at the point of contact.

[Used to be Starter]

Correct.

[The Black Knight]

Sorry, you missed the point that Sainz was already on track within the white lines before he moved left and touched tires with the Redbull. Yes, he was ahead, but he cannot take the racing line while another car is more than halfway alongside him and on the racing line, that would produce a crash otherwise which it did. Mind you, the contact was between the rear tires of both cars touching, that is how far up alongside Perez was.

Besides, Sainz had more to lose, hence should have used his head to make sure it was a clean pass. I think he may have won the race or finished second at worst, if he were able to pass Perez cleanly. He did not need to move left in an attempt to squeeze Perez. All he had to do was to use his tire advantage to get through without contact.

That in-the-moment intelligence is what separates the great drivers from the rest. Something that Sainz has to learn. Put Piastri in that situation, l am very sure the move would have been completed successfully without contact.

Nope, you’ve this totally wrong. See Steve Boyd’s response then reevaluate.

[Nitrodaze]

Take another look. The centre of Perez's front axle was just ahead of the centre of Sains' rear axle at the point of contact.

Actually, that is correct

[Nitrodaze]

All commentators seem to blame Sainz but I've to disagree. It was unrealistic of Perez to expect that Sainz would drive close to the wall the entire way up the straight. He could have pulled over to the left and still made the move stick, the squeeze was completely unnecessary. Plus Sainz was ahead so he is entitled to take the racing line. A bit of intelligence from Perez and he could have had 3rd position, possibly 2nd. He did the same in Monaco, okay a little but greyer there, and paid the price then as well.

My point is as shown here. Perez gave Sainz plenty of room for Sainz to get back within the white lines. A full car's width. Once Sainz got back within the white line, his action to move left is what caused the crash. He moves left in an attempt to get into the slipstream of Leclerc. My point is, he did not need to do that as he was faster.
Stage One
2561

Stage Two
Sainz drifts left and Perez moves left to avoid contact. Note how far from the white line Sainz is now, compared to the shot above.
2562

Stage Three
The point of contact as they lock wheels
2563

Stage four
The crash occurs with Sainz now losing control and the Ferrari pivot around collecting Perez in the process.
2564

These are the facts