2024 - Race 16 Italy

[F1nKS]

Well, well...it looks like RB went on autopilot too soon.

It's hard to see RB winning the constructor championship because of Perez's driving. McLaren may have thrown away too many points to beat Verstappen, but it is GAME ON.

It should be a great race!

[airshifter]

It's great that the teams have tightened up so much at the front. I'd agree with the WDC and WCC... one is in fairly easy reach, the other might be a hurdle for Lando even if form keeps up.

As for Italy, word is that many of the drivers don't like the changes in the curbs much, but I guess they will live with it. The safety car has already had a fairly hard off, strange looking so I wonder what went wrong.

[Matthew]

It would be interesting to see the response from Max and Red Bull after Lando's dominance at Zandvoort where his McLaren was literally flying. Also, will we see another podium finish by Ferrari this Sunday who came into the Italian GP with 9 updates (https://www.fanamp.com/f1-news/italian-grand-prix-tech-corner) to their car.

[airshifter]

Kimi been set on his second flying lap. Not the best way to start a Formula 1 career probably.


ETA: Never trust voice to text. "bins it" :look:

But no surprise that he was announced as official as Monza.

[F1nKS]

Big opportunity for McLaren tomorrow. They can take the constructor lead and put a dent into Verstapen lead.

I heard a rumor at work that Perez is out after Mexico.

[airshifter]

With RB including Max struggling at Monza, it's exactly what Lando needs to have any real chance of bagging a WDC this year. But it will take solid and consistent driving to give him these opportunities, but for right now at least it looks like McLaren have the car to do it.

As for Perez, I've quit trying to make sense of what RB are thinking. Granted he is only one position behind Max for this race, but he has cost the team a lot of points over the season, and it was clear that the other teams have been catching up with RB.... even now probably stronger overall.

There might still be a good race to watch though. It seemed that through the qually sessions even the small temp changes, along with tire differences, really made me wonder who might be the ones fighting for pole. Though I'm not surprised to see RB down some, it was obvious the others in the top 3 all had good pace at various stages. As for RB, unless they are expecting something we can't see, I don't see them making up places...at least not quickly. Max is almost a half second down vs Lewis just one position higher. From Lewis up the field is fairly tight.

[N. Jones]

What a race. I think there are too many people who can win a race to cost Max the title. The constructors may not be won by Red Bull, though.

[F1nKS]

McLaren is struggling with strategy. They have lost a lot of points on the table this year.

[airshifter]

Fantastic move by Oscar early on. Lando never really even saw it coming I don't think.

Overall an interesting race. McLaren had more pace but by the time Charles and Ferrari realized that a one stop could happen, the McLarens didn't have enough tire left to pull it off. With Merc and RB down on pace it was less a roll of the dice, but Oscar didn't think he could pull it off in the papaya car. Though they had the option, it looked like making the single stopper work after the early pace would have been really tricky.

Considering how tight the top cars were in qually, Lewis and George did well to qualify where they did. On race pace the car wasn't as there, but it was still enough to keep the Red Bulls behind. George's mistake at the first corner cost him but at best they were probably going to finish 5th-6th anyway.

A big opportunity just slipped away from Lando. But in all fairness, I really enjoy that Zak is letting them race without team orders, and Lando was complimentary of Oscar's move as well. They still did well in team points, and Ferrari is now closing up on the Bulls as well.

And for Charles, it would be hard to find a better finish to his day. The top step at Monza in a Ferrari is hard to beat. He played his hand well and came out on top. Well done, and well deserved.

[Nitrodaze]

PIASTRI !!!

What a ballsy overtake to take the lead on the first lap. What a racer! Unfortunately, McLaren does not have a championship quality strategist. They gave the win away so easily to Ferrari. That was a dear mistake.
The Norris first-lap weakness shows up again and he pays dearly by a two-place drop.

He still has a chance but l am not seeing anything that tells me why he deserves to win the driver's championship. Piastri is catching Norris in the point by just as much as Norris is closing on Verstappen. At this rate, none of the McLaren drivers is going to win the driver's championship. Piastri is unintentionally helping out a flagging Verstappen.

Newey leaves and Redbull instantly goes to pot.

[The Black Knight]

PIASTRI !!!

What a ballsy overtake to take the lead on the first lap. What a racer! Unfortunately, McLaren does not have a championship quality strategist. They gave the win away so easily to Ferrari. That was a dear mistake.
The Norris first-lap weakness shows up again and he pays dearly by a two-place drop.

He still has a chance but l am not seeing anything that tells me why he deserves to win the driver's championship. Piastri is catching Norris in the point by just as much as Norris is closing on Verstappen. At this rate, none of the McLaren drivers is going to win the driver's championship. Piastri is unintentionally helping out a flagging Verstappen.

Newey leaves and Redbull instantly goes to pot.

I don't know what Lando was complaining about post race. Piastri did nothing wrong. If he wants to win the WDC he needs to be able to fend off Piastri and moves like this on the first lap. On the other hand, if I were McLaren I would consider having Lando as Number One for the remainder of the season. He's the only one in with a chance of victory. If they'd played their cards right over the last number of races the gap would be less than 50 points now. They need to make a decision on this quickly.

I think the handling issues RBR are having are due to the design philosophy they took from Mercedes. The sort of zero side pod concept with the arrogance that they could make it work better than the 8XWDC's. Their arrogance has been their undoing. I'd love if they lost both championships. Doesn't look like they'll get the constructors which is good. To see it begin to unravel for them is wonderful.

[Bagwan]

Lando has a team-mate who isn't on his side , and he knows it .
He jigged over in front of him at the start as if it was Max beside him , and he should been as careful at the fourth corner , where Piastri made his dive .

It was a clean pass that was just a little dicey , which seems to say Piastri trusts Lando to race fairly , even when punked .

The signs are there that they will have trouble if they don't clear this up soon .
I would have had Piastri let him by on the last lap , when it was clear he wasn't about to catch Chuck . He had already shown he was fast , and could have returned a favour and shown that he, too , was a team player .
Mind you , I can't see Oscar doing that . He has a little too much Max in him .

Marko made a point of thanking McLaren for the philosophy , as they see who the main rival is .

[Nitrodaze]

I don't know what Lando was complaining about post race. Piastri did nothing wrong. If he wants to win the WDC he needs to be able to fend off Piastri and moves like this on the first lap. On the other hand, if I were McLaren I would consider having Lando as Number One for the remainder of the season. He's the only one in with a chance of victory. If they'd played their cards right over the last number of races the gap would be less than 50 points now. They need to make a decision on this quickly.

Piastri is only 44 points away from Norris, there is the second-place battle on going as well remember. If Norris needs help from the team to win the championship, then he is not the future of McLaren. To win a championship, the first and most important step is to beat your teammate. He has the points advantage. He has superior speed relative to Piastri, especially over one lap. But he lacks Piastris's raw racing talent. Never mind Antonelli, the future is Piastri. Piastri in a championship-winning car would be quite something in the near future.

I never really rate drivers who win championships by sacrificing the chances of their teammates to further their own ambition. Which is why there has been a huge question mark on Verstappen. It tainted Shumacher's achievements. As it did Vettel's, if you ask Webber.

McLaren has never entertained allowing one driver to use another driver with very clear potential to win races, to be used to assist the other to win championships. It was the very reason, Hamilton was allowed to challenge Alonso in 2007. And he nearly won the driver's championship in his rookie year. If McLaren had used Hamilton to assist Alonso in winning the 2007 and 2008 titles, it may have killed off the phenomenon that is the Hamilton that we know today.

The growing sensation in Piastri is very much at serious risk of being dampened down and potentially snuffed out if not handled with care. McLaren is very much on course to snatch the constructors championship from Redbull. Which is what matters to them the most. The driver's championship is an individual thing. I think Norris has been set an important test; can he win the championship title on the back of his own pure skill and talent. Or does he need help of the "Alonso is faster than you" variety?

If you want evidence, just look at what has happened to Perez, a driver capable of winning races, turned into a driver struggling to make it into the points consistently. When a driver is treated as a supporting driver, you kill the edge in them. And Redbull has done that to many drivers, including Ricciardo.

[Nitrodaze]

Lots of subtle new developments to take from Monza. Firstly, the Ferrari chassis is now kinder to its tires. 33 laps on the hard tire, is a remarkable achievement. This is a huge development for Ferrari. Secondly, Redbull seems to have a bigger problem than it seemed a few races ago. We all kept thinking they would bounce back after the summer break but that does seem to be happening. Thirdly, the driver's title is very much on the table for McLaren and Norris.

We would see if the recent McLaren management would step away from tradition and back Norris for the driver's title for what would be a hugely popular double world champion win.

[F1nKS]

Looking at the numbers, Red Bull is faster than last year, but McLaren is just making a more significant jump.

Average Qualifying Improvement between 2023 to 2024

Verstappen -0.88 seconds
Norris -1.58 seconds
Piastri -1.63 seconds

Those improvements wipe out the RB advantage, and at this point, it looks like McLaren is just a better car.

[Nitrodaze]

Looking at the numbers, Red Bull is faster than last year, but McLaren is just making a more significant jump.

Average Qualifying Improvement between 2023 to 2024

Verstappen -0.88 seconds
Norris -1.58 seconds
Piastri -1.63 seconds

Those improvements wipe out the RB advantage, and at this point, it looks like McLaren is just a better car.

Unfortunately, McLaren is unable to maximize that advantage. They should be winning all races since Silverstone GP. All other teams in the sharp end are snatching wins like taking candy from a child. The thing about winning is it also takes great team operation on race day. Brilliant strategy and flawless pitstops help maximize the opportunities available to the drivers on track. When operation is poor, you see drivers finish lower than where they started. Not because they are not trying, simply due to poor choices.

[airshifter]

Looking at the numbers, Red Bull is faster than last year, but McLaren is just making a more significant jump.

Average Qualifying Improvement between 2023 to 2024

Verstappen -0.88 seconds
Norris -1.58 seconds
Piastri -1.63 seconds

Those improvements wipe out the RB advantage, and at this point, it looks like McLaren is just a better car.

Don't let facts get in the way of all the conspiracy theories! :laugh:

With the sliding wind tunnel and CFD regs, it's likely that no team can stay at the very front forever. Though some will claim the RB suddenly lost performance, the reality is that they have just slowed down in development compared to the others. And if (likely when) McLaren take the WCC they will suffer the same fate most likely.


And overall I don't think McLaren got it wrong in Monza really. Running in the lead they made the decision to blink first, thinking the undercut would work and that everyone was running a two stop race. With the advantage of hindsight it's easy to say they could have one stopped, but it could have just as easily turned against them if Charles suddenly picked up pace and two stopped as well. I think Piastri's comment applied, something to the extent of "everyone is a legend on Monday".