Silly Season 2025 [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

CeskyOndra

29th July 2024, 14:40

Dimitris

29th July 2024, 16:21

I don't see any of the drivers sharing the 3rd Hyundai car getting a full time seat, and I can't see a rookie getting in either.

I think Fourmaux could be an interesting prospect, but at the same time, why go to Hyundai if their future is uncertain?

skarderud

30th July 2024, 05:50

Fourmaux would be the best choice. Both Lappi and Mikkelsen are struggling on tarmac and aren't so consistent.They have to hire Loeb! Oh wait, he eighter couldn't drive the Hyundai on tarmac.

Its not the existing drivers that are the problem, its the car.

I don't see Fourmaux change seat, lots of uncertain future in Hyundai, why would Hyundai pay M-sport for a driver for maybe a year or two?
If, then they have future plans.

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CeskyOndra

30th July 2024, 09:08

They have to hire Loeb! Oh wait, he eighter couldn't drive the Hyundai on tarmac.

Its not the existing drivers that are the problem, its the car.

I don't see Fourmaux change seat, lots of uncertain future in Hyundai, why would Hyundai pay M-sport for a driver for maybe a year or two?
If, then they have future plans.

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Yeah, the car is just hard to drive on tarmac, only Neuville can do it. This makes me think that Hyundai has no competitive 3rd driver (and maybe even Ott..) on two last tarmac rounds very important for championship.

deephouse

30th July 2024, 09:22

I would go for Sordo. He is complete everywhere. Or go a completely different direction and hire some youngster but that turns out to be a pretty bad decision in the past. I don't know what's with Lappi, but he is nothing after that ''Sweden win''. And that rare competitiveness of Mikkelsen isn't enough (and he always fucked that up too). There is Suninen also, but he was tricked so many times by Hyundai, that I wonder what he is doing there. Lindholm, nah. Either Hyundai isn't serious about training youngsters or he isn't everywhere. There is one guy who I think should be included in consideration. It's silly how they are not seeing Paddon at all. Of youngsters they have Solberg (he had a chance with them before), Pajari (except if Toyota holds him with some clause), Sesks, Gryazin,...

Toyota will go with the same, sure, they will not get rid of Katsuta, after they invested in him so much time and effort (and he is a Japanese ambassador).

M-Sport will maybe replace Munster with Sesks, except that the Greek guy will not let them. Maybe give him Rally2 Fiesta for one season and bring Sesks up. In the past, that way, they did very well. Tanak, Evans, Fourmaux

Rallyper

30th July 2024, 10:27

Yeah, Paddon deserves a seat in Hyundai.
Also Solberg should have matured enough to get a seat.

skarderud

30th July 2024, 11:52

Yes, Paddon should atleast been given an opportunity for good testing and a couple of rallies.
I'm not shure Solberg want to go back to Hyundai, it closely ruined his career last time, the departure wasnt that nice eighter.
If he is in talks with Latvala for something next season, maybe Rally2 and a couple of Rally1 drives, he will taked that one.

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Backa

30th July 2024, 12:40

I'm not shure Solberg want to go back to Hyundai, it closely ruined his career last time, the departure wasnt that nice eighter.

I don't think Solberg should be nitpicky, Rally1 is not F1 with 10 teams. Tanak came back to Hyundai so maybe Cyril would convince Solberg to do it too. It makes some sense to invest in new guys as Neuville and Tanak are quite old.

Not big fan of full-time 3rd driver idea, from team perspective I think it's more sensible to find two that are good at different surfaces, although don't see many good tarmac specialists now. And from fan's perspective, I prefer to see two part-time drivers than one full-time as there is enough drivers deserving rally1 seat.

mknight

30th July 2024, 13:31

Abiteboul said Hyundai are considering changing to a full-time 3rd driver from next season....

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-reconsidering-third-driver-policy/

This also depends on any new points system, but if they go ahead, who would be the best choice ?

I read this as an internal Hyundai policy topic.

Abiteoul kept Lappi in the team after disastrous second half of last year against the wishes of other people at Hyundai. (Lappi's words)

Now Lappi did extremely poorly after 5 months break. While in Sweden the road position in a snowstorm gave him the win, in Poland road position have Mikkelsen an advantage and Ogier and Rovanpera have been benefiting from it on almost all their starts.

Abiteoul is trying to diffuse the issue with the last rally by trying to point to something else.

mknight

30th July 2024, 13:34

Yeah, the car is just hard to drive on tarmac, only Neuville can do it. This makes me think that Hyundai has no competitive 3rd driver (and maybe even Ott..) on two last tarmac rounds very important for championship.

Yes, unless something dramatic happens they might lose manuchamps on the tarmac rounds at the end.

Anyone except Neuville misses confidence with it on tarmac. Lappi pushes anyway and ends up crashing often. Tanak drives at 95% behind the other 3-4 fastest and Mikkelsen similarly but behind Katsuta and Fourmaux as well.

mknight

30th July 2024, 13:45

I would go for Sordo. He is complete everywhere. Or go a completely different direction and hire some youngster but that turns out to be a pretty bad decision in the past. I don't know what's with Lappi, but he is nothing after that ''Sweden win''. And that rare competitiveness of Mikkelsen isn't enough (and he always fucked that up too). There is Suninen also, but he was tricked so many times by Hyundai, that I wonder what he is doing there.

Sordo is no longer competitive enough in Rally1. On fast rallies he never was in his career which is why he hasn't done them for last 7 years! So he will never be fulltime driver again. On slow gravel he is no longer able to fight for win on speed alone even with road position advantage.

Lappi had full season just last year and it didn't work, starting to get a long list of full seasons that didn't work well. (Citroen 2019, Toyota 2018, not to mention MSport).

Mikkelsen as you said had one good rally (where he got full points for 2nd place on Saturday), but it was also his first gravel since 2019. They will quite surely not give him bigger program next year without some extra good results. Maybe try him in Greece.

Suninen got numerous second chances at both MSport and Hyundai with usually disastrous results (like losing them manu champs last year in Chile). And this year he is invisible in Rally2 while Paddon does quite well.

Fourmaux is the only realistic other option unless Evans leaves Toyota. Hard to say how realistic. Sesks performance put Fourmauxs "great results" a bit into question for me.

AndersX

30th July 2024, 14:08

If we look back, then all the evidences show that you can not put young and green drivers in full 14 round, all a around season - it had worked almost never. Thus all the young guns must share a car with someone and build up experience.

Pajari is locked in Toyota - Latvala had been rather direct between the lines; even his comment about Pajaris expectations from Finland point to long term plan ( while Sesks had to all-in to show what he could).

Oliver will have a place in M-Sport, bcs he needs to prove him self being mature for R1 again. Thus I guess that in some strange scenario Oliver would share a seat with Sesks, if both get budgets together. Malcolm will not pay for them.

So, the Hyundai - i would really like to see Paddon back; in the ideal version, he would 50/50 share his seat with Lapi or Mikelsen. And that is it.

Evans will stay in Toyota. The unknown factor - the one who gets WDC might decide to retire - i can imagine Ott saying - 2 is ok; then more places open up.

Should be rather interesting silly season.

WRCStan

30th July 2024, 15:21

I can see Evans or Neuville being shifted to M-Sport.

skarderud

30th July 2024, 15:33

If Neuville don't win the WDC, do he take another season or just call it a career?
I don't know his contract tho.

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AndersX

30th July 2024, 15:36

I can see Evans or Neuville being shifted to M-Sport.

Who would pay for it? Only if Ford goes all-in as they are stating in media ( but they are waiting 2027 rules)

WRCStan

30th July 2024, 16:51

Who would pay for it? Only if Ford goes all-in as they are stating in media ( but they are waiting 2027 rules)

Anybody but Ford.

WRCStan

30th July 2024, 16:55

If Neuville don't win the WDC, do he take another season or just call it a career?
I don't know his contract tho.

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He's needed too much as a contender. It'd be senseless to let him disappear. He's also not quit yet despite not winning titles before.

stavrosGDB

30th July 2024, 17:22

+1 for Paddon,he deserves for sure a Rally1 seat(part time or not).

macebig

30th July 2024, 18:18

Red Bull and Ford will gather enough for M-Sport to get whoever doesn't get a seat with Toyota or Hyundai with Evans and Mikkelsen being the prime candidates.

skarderud

30th July 2024, 19:00

He's needed too much as a contender. It'd be senseless to let him disappear. He's also not quit yet despite not winning titles before.Yes, but its "his to loose" this year with Kalles parttime, next year he is back fulltime and to be big favorite.

If he loose this, no big changes on the car (no new car) and the Kalle/Toyota combination is unbeatable, is he (or Ott) motivated?

Or, to Spice the silly season up, both Neuville and Ott, and Evans is out next year, and katsuta in 4th car, then its lots of seats up for grabs:)

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trykmann

30th July 2024, 19:06

Abiteboul already confirmed Tänak for next year.

saco0o

30th July 2024, 23:59

idk but heres the next kalle! the boy will be winning titles by 8 years old
https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/1eg2j8t/shao_ziyan_a_5_year_year_old_boy_is_the_youngest/

Krigen

1st August 2024, 18:42

Sordo is done...

Rallyper

5th August 2024, 07:28

Toyota next year:
Many rumours in Jyväskylä (as long as I was there)...
Probably there´s room for a couple of new drivers in the team.
Having seen Kalle in the aftermath of his crash, saying he will be back next year, doesn´t tell if he will be a parttime driver or not, though.
My thoughts:
Pajari, possible.
Oliver, possible (seeing him and JML at the finish line, says maybe something.)
Above meaning a couple of drivers had quit.

Eli

5th August 2024, 07:35

Rallyper

5th August 2024, 07:54

So possible for Katsuta to be part time maybe and Evans out??

My hint is there´s gonna be some changes. That said without any confirmations what so ever.

Eli

5th August 2024, 08:14

My hint is there´s gonna be some changes. That said without any confirmations what so ever.

Are they also gonna make the car less ugly? Just kidding lol but thanks for the info!

denkimi

5th August 2024, 09:31

So possible for Katsuta to be part time maybe and Evans out??
Unless kalle or ogier return fulltime, evans will stay.

Dontcut

5th August 2024, 09:51

flat_right

5th August 2024, 10:00

Let's make it wild:
TGR- Neuville, Pajari, part time for Ogi and Kalle. Katsuta in R2 programme.
Hyundai- Tänak, Solberg and someone for part time.
M-Sport- Evans, Formaux, part time for Sesks and maybe Munster.

If my memory serves me right then Kalle will be full time in 2025. When this surprised announcement was made that he will drive partially in 2024, then they also mentioned that the year after that it is back to normal again.

AMSS

5th August 2024, 10:06

If my memory serves me right then Kalle will be full time in 2025. When this surprised announcement was made that he will drive partially in 2024, then they also mentioned that the year after that it is back to normal again.

Exactly what his manager Jouhki said today to media, he didn`t understand where the specualtion comes from as it`s already announced he will be back full time next year. A rumour in Finland said Oliver was already signed with Toyota for 2025, but just a rumour

mknight

5th August 2024, 11:56

becher

5th August 2024, 12:17

All this talk about dropping Evans....I don't know, he's no Rovanperä but still could you have a better "number 2"? I don't think so.

CeskyOndra

5th August 2024, 12:31

Rumours says that Fourmaux is already in talks with Hyundai.

Toyota - Ogier, Rovanpera, Solberg, Katsuta, Pajari

Hyundai - Neuville, Tanak, Fourmaux

Ford - Sesks, Evans

DrLill

5th August 2024, 12:38

How about a swap between Evans and Neuville? So Neuville moves to Toyota and Evans to Hyundai? So Hyundai would be Tänak, Evans, Fourmaux maybe and perhaps a fourth car (if possible).

On a side note, what do you guys think, will we ever see Tänak again in the Toyota or that bridge was burned in 2019?

Backa

5th August 2024, 13:26

I am rather sure Neuville will retire as a Hyundai driver. I can be wrong but I think he said something like that in some interview.

saco0o

5th August 2024, 13:45

if neuville doesnt win the title this year both he and hyundai should agree to simply give up. honestly.
and let me say im a big neuville fan and have been cheering for him for ages

CeskyOndra

5th August 2024, 14:29

if neuville doesnt win the title this year both he and hyundai should agree to simply give up. honestly.
and let me say im a big neuville fan and have been cheering for him for ages

I hope so :-D

Morte66

5th August 2024, 20:48

Well, since we're calling it "Silly Season"...

Toyota:
Rovanpera
Evans
Ogier (any time he wants) + Katsuta (cannot be fired)
2-4 drives for Pajari, not for points, they won't want to rush him, it's spoiled too many young drivers, and Toyota can play the long game.
If Ogier retires in a strop over the point system, we might see Fourmaux or Solberg in the mix.

Hyundai:
Neuville - if he was going to leave, he would have done it already
Tanak
I fear Fourmaux, and it goes badly for him. Otherwise, similar to this year.

Ford:
Munster (or they quit R1 without the money he brings)
Fourmaux or Solberg on a "percentage of future earnings" deal. Solberg looks solid enough for that now.
Not Sesks, sorry Sesks fans.

saco0o

6th August 2024, 03:42

does anybody see Gus returning to msport? (because "pay-ride")

Fast Eddie WRC

6th August 2024, 09:52

does anybody see Gus returning to msport? (because "pay-ride")

No, I think that ship has sailed due to the costs involved with a Rally1 car.

He's also had a poor run of form since starting 2023 WRC 2 so well. I cant even see anyone helping him fund a drive. Sadly it seems he had his chance at the top level and never proved himself fast enough.

mknight

6th August 2024, 10:34

I think he left MSport mainly because he was tired of paying for a car with very bad reliability.

This year their reliability improved so I wouldn't rule out that he goes back. As you mention also has bad season with Skoda this year after fighting for title last year.

Morte66

6th August 2024, 10:48

I think Gus found his level in WRC2 and he looks like a worthy contender there if he wants to keep at it. But if he'd rather drive M-Sport WRC1, and his dad has the money, M-Sport won't turn it down.

Backa

6th August 2024, 10:53

Plenty of drivers hoping for seat seems to be more gravel specialists than tarmac ones: Mikkelsen, Lappi, Solberg, Pajari, Sesks and unlikely to be back Paddon.

I am curious if that can be some opportunity for Mathieu Franceschi, especially if he will beat Paddon during rest of ERC season (all on tarmac). He is not exactly tarmac specialist but seems quite consistent on all surfaces. Also quite young, 25 years old.

Although I would probably go with Solberg/Pajari/Sesks and let them gain experience on tarmac as in future they could fight for titles.

becher

6th August 2024, 11:56

Regarding Hyundais potential tarmac problem for next season, wouldn't Rossel be worth a try for the tarmac rounds?

Fast Eddie WRC

6th August 2024, 12:18

Latvala on 2025 contracts...

'Of course, at the moment I think we are in quite a good position. We will try to keep the drivers for sure.

But then there are a few question marks like what Seb wants to do, does he want to drive next year? And then of course with Sami and so on, so there are a few points which we need to start clearing."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/latvala-pajari-among-toyotas-driver-options-for-wrc-in-2025/10642476/

Morte66

6th August 2024, 14:04

Regarding Hyundais potential tarmac problem for next season, wouldn't Rossel be worth a try for the tarmac rounds?

He seems like the best candidate but they'd have to deal with his contract with Citroen, who would probably like him driving the tarmac rallies in WRC2 for them.

I think they should give him some test days, or enter him in French local rallies in WRC1, or whatever they can arrange, to see if he gets along with the car. I think they should have started already.

Or... they have already got Fourmaux in the bag, so no point working with Rossel.

mknight

6th August 2024, 14:42

Regarding Hyundais potential tarmac problem for next season, wouldn't Rossel be worth a try for the tarmac rounds?

Agree that Rossel is just about the only tarmac specialist around, except Italian drivers that never drive outside of Italy (Crugnola) and Loeb.

Problem is that Rossel actually got beaten on tarmac a few times by some of those "gravel" specialists you mention.

So imo he is not that much of a step up on tarmac to be worth it. Also note how Gryazin can match him on tarmac in same car, in Fabia he wasn't faster than many other Fabia drivers either.

Morte66

6th August 2024, 14:59

Problem is that Rossel actually got beaten on tarmac a few times by some of those "gravel" specialists you mention.

So imo he is not that much of a step up on tarmac to be worth it. Also note how Gryazin can match him on tarmac in same car, in Fabia he wasn't faster than many other Fabia drivers either.

Now that you mention it... Good point.

deephouse

6th August 2024, 16:01

mknight

6th August 2024, 17:58

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-are-hyundai-drivers-struggling-on-asphalt/

It's an old article... It's funny that they still haven't found a solution after all those years. Even after all those cars they built during their era. And here we are, Neuville still the only one who could actually drive that car on asphalt.

Well the new car is completely different than the old one.
Old one was massively understeering on tarmac and hard to turn in, so that Neuville would use the handbrake more than the steering wheel at times.

New one is mostly oversteering and hard to have confidence in.

saco0o

6th August 2024, 18:49

just to be clear. everybody here agrees that "the names that may appear in wrc" are between these?
- sesks, pajari, solberg, rossel, grazyn, lindholm (maybe franchesci?)
and everybody would like paddon to have a try in some of the 3rd cars haha

i'd still also have a list with lukyanuk and ingram, because they are great characters. and i wish i could watch kopecky and kajetan doing one or two rounds in a rally1 'just to see how it goes'

TypeR

6th August 2024, 19:19

Well the new car is completely different than the old one.
Old one was massively understeering on tarmac and hard to turn in, so that Neuville would use the handbrake more than the steering wheel at times.

New one is mostly oversteering and hard to have confidence in.
The fact is that there have been different gen cars and top drivers behind the wheel, but at the end.. Neuville is still the only one that can drive it fast on tarmac..

So.. I say that they are still built by similar formula that nobosy else than Neuville can drive :D

It's a ,,making other drivers look bad'' car :D

Backa

6th August 2024, 20:08

"the names that may appear in wrc" are between these?
- sesks, pajari, solberg, rossel, grazyn, lindholm (maybe franchesci?)

Pajari is quite likely to go for Toyota. Sesks will maybe do some rounds in M-Sport. Solberg is more likely to stay with Skoda and wait to see what they are planning for 2027

Gus Greensmith could be back as pay-driver in M-Sport.

Rossel/Gryazin/Lindholm/Suninen/Paddon/Franceschi aren't very likely. Lappi could be out but I don't expect other old guys to be out completely for next season.

If WRC promoter is serious about one-offs for young, local drivers then maybe we will see Virves/Linnamae/Solans/Cais/Zaldivar at their home events.

mknight

6th August 2024, 20:31

Rossel/Gryazin/Lindholm/Suninen/Paddon/Franceschi aren't very likely.

Agree that none of them are likely next year. For the future I think only Franceschi looks promising at the moment.

denkimi

7th August 2024, 10:54

The fact is that there have been different gen cars and top drivers behind the wheel, but at the end.. Neuville is still the only one that can drive it fast on tarmac..

So.. I say that they are still built by similar formula that nobosy else than Neuville can drive :D

It's a ,,making other drivers look bad'' car :D
That, or Neuville is a fantastic driver.

mknight

7th August 2024, 16:09

That, or Neuville is a fantastic driver.

To me it seems that Neuville is more comfortable than others in pushing when the car isn't perfect.

Works many times but relatively regularly he also crashes seemingly out of nowhere like Japan or Croatia last year or Ypres before that. Against a very reliable driver like Ogier it has not worked in title fights.

Lappi is similar in being able to push with non-optimal car, but crashes even more to the point of too often. Meeke is even more of that.

Tanak and Sordo are both "feeling sensitive" and Mikkelsen is the extreme version of that again, needing "perfect" feeling.

Fast Eddie WRC

7th August 2024, 17:08

M-Sport determined to keep Fourmaux after Hyundai rumours...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-responds-to-fourmaux-hyundai-rumors/

focus206

7th August 2024, 18:25

To me it seems that Neuville is more comfortable than others in pushing when the car isn't perfect.

Works many times but relatively regularly he also crashes seemingly out of nowhere like Japan or Croatia last year or Ypres before that. Against a very reliable driver like Ogier it has not worked in title fights.

Lappi is similar in being able to push with non-optimal car, but crashes even more to the point of too often. Meeke is even more of that.

Tanak and Sordo are both "feeling sensitive" and Mikkelsen is the extreme version of that again, needing "perfect" feeling.

To me it has never been a matter of pushing or no pushing with Neuville. Plenty of times we've seen Neuville going flat out for the whole rally, like last year's Mexico, making 0 mistakes and overtaking Evans in the last stage. Other times we've seen Neuville in a comfortable position binning it and retiring.
In my opinion it's his handbrake-heavy driving style, which lately seems to be a bit less needed, that is just a more risky driving style. I can't pinpoint what's risky about it, but maybe it's easier to misjudge certain turns driving like that. I find it more plausible than Neuville "pushing when he doesn't need to".

CeskyOndra

7th August 2024, 20:55

To me it has never been a matter of pushing or no pushing with Neuville. Plenty of times we've seen Neuville going flat out for the whole rally, like last year's Mexico, making 0 mistakes and overtaking Evans in the last stage. Other times we've seen Neuville in a comfortable position binning it and retiring.
In my opinion it's his handbrake-heavy driving style, which lately seems to be a bit less needed, that is just a more risky driving style. I can't pinpoint what's risky about it, but maybe it's easier to misjudge certain turns driving like that. I find it more plausible than Neuville "pushing when he doesn't need to".

Yeah but I think that its better this year, just one bigger mistake in Sardegna. Hopefully that was all. He bringed home the points on every rally with difficult conditions. Let's see, I will be cheering for him.. He deserves that first title.

focus206

7th August 2024, 21:48

Yeah but I think that its better this year, just one bigger mistake in Sardegna. Hopefully that was all. He bringed home the points on every rally with difficult conditions. Let's see, I will be cheering for him.. He deserves that first title.

Hopefully there won't be technical troubles, would be a shame losing the title for unreliability after such hard work...

Fast Eddie WRC

11th August 2024, 10:27

Fourmaux targets a full time drive in '25 so I dont see him leaving M-Sport...

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-star-amidst-transfer-rumours-now-makes-a-firm-decision-about-his-future/

bandit12

11th August 2024, 12:43

Fourmaux targets a full time drive in '25 so I dont see him leaving M-Sport...

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-star-amidst-transfer-rumours-now-makes-a-firm-decision-about-his-future/

I hope so. Last thing that he needs is third seat on that boinky Hyundai.

EstWRC

11th August 2024, 12:53

Sensible indeed. Would be huge mistake from him to go and drive that undrivable ironing machine.

AE1WRC

11th August 2024, 12:55

I absolutely agree. Fourmaux has been doing an incredible job (easily the most impressive driver this season) this season with M-sport and I think he loves where he is at with incredible consistency and the system that is working for him. I would be surprised if he moves to Hyundai as the third driver. Instead, I am wondering who is gonna be the second M-sport driver because so far GMuns IMO has not been very impressive this season. I would love to see Martins but the budget might be a problem for him for a full season.

AE1WRC

11th August 2024, 13:25

If Rovanpera drives fulltime I can see Toyota dropping Evans which might make him go to MSport.

Oliver getting some drive sounds reasonable though I am not sure anyone will give him full season since he totally ignores tarmac since Croatia 2023. His lack of experience and historically also performance on tarmac also makes Hyundai least likely imo.

mknight made an interesting point. While this doesn't sound impossible, Toyota needs a reliable second driver to help KR in 2025. Taka at this moment is definitely prone to errors and not reliable at all, even though Seb is in Tier 1A with Kalle imo, he probably will continue to share the 3rd car (with Sami ?). I know Elfyn lacks some pace this season and I know he is not anymore in the same level with Seb and KR (Tier 1A drivers) but he is generally reliable and brings good points and this is a good quality for a second driver in a team. Therefore I agree with becher that Evans is the one of the if not the most reliable second driver that any team can find.

About Oliver, if he wins WRC2 this year I think he deserves his second chance at the top level. He has been doing a good job this year but like mknight said I don't know if he is going to be a liability on Tarmac with Rally1 or not (he can improve this over time) . He can do okay in gravel and snow. Therefore, if he can drive rally1 next year in the events that he is comfortable (Sweden,Finland,Estonia etc)and brings good results that would boost his confidence and increase his chance to attract attention (like Martins).

Fast Eddie WRC

13th August 2024, 18:31

Active F1 driver has been conducting rally tests “in massive secrecy"...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-driver-market-shock-2024-secret-rally-testing

flat_right

14th August 2024, 09:12

Active F1 driver has been conducting rally tests “in massive secrecy"...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-driver-market-shock-2024-secret-rally-testing

The only one I can think of is Bottas. I doubt it's Sainz.

WRCStan

14th August 2024, 15:46

Norris is my bet, been to M-Sport tests before and appeared keen and has a commercial link with Solberg. I'd guess a video is on the way at most whoever it is over any 2025 drives ideas.

1988senna

15th August 2024, 05:09

The only one I can think of is Bottas. I doubt it's Sainz.
I believe Bottas never has that speed fight even in WRC2

bandit12

15th August 2024, 05:32

I believe Bottas never has that speed fight even in WRC2
Who cares about his speed. Hebhas money and mullet.

Fast Eddie WRC

4th September 2024, 10:38

This was published a month ago...

"Thierry Neuville wants to extend his lease by two years. According to our information, the contract was to be signed this week in Finland so that our compatriot can then focus on his end of the season and the quest for his first world title."

https://www.autotrends.be/fr/actualit%C3%A9/rallye/WRC---Demaison-en-charge-du-projet-Hypercar--Loriaux-nouveau-directeur-technique-en-rallye-en-2025?fbclid=IwY2xjawFE_bVleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHYBW-xPYEl_dtZX-0ZBbPeyGaa-EhXdpWk_7V7T02VzWfzs-vnp3keVsJw_aem_-qYBEN-x1dT0MduSZ3d1GA

Also re the part about Hyundai being 'aligned' with PH Sport from 2026... Bottas had a rally car supplied by them previously ..

saco0o

4th September 2024, 17:28

Active F1 driver has been conducting rally tests “in massive secrecy"...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-driver-market-shock-2024-secret-rally-testing

just for the into: bottas said it wasnt him: https://www.planetf1.com/news/valtteri-bottas-secret-rally-test-rumour-audi-f1-future
the guy who broke up with this is a former williams team manager, so i'd go with Sainz too. but I doubt he would leave f1 like that. i mean, it was non sense moving to williams with open-ISH seats at redbull, mercedes, audi*, alpine before f1's summer break, but eh, i doubt he would leave the f1 money to do rally

saco0o

4th September 2024, 17:36

Norris is my bet, been to M-Sport tests before and appeared keen and has a commercial link with Solberg. I'd guess a video is on the way at most whoever it is over any 2025 drives ideas.

at 5:20 you can see Norris just realizing f1 is nothing close to a simple R5 haha. tho right after he says he would not drive that because "he dont want to die" haha this is something regarding his brand Quadant?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDMplXKlz6E

TypeR

4th September 2024, 17:59

Sorry, haven't watched any of those videos and only real headlines..

Why the fork would Lando do some random sh1t at this moment of his carreer..
Bottas on the other hand is just crawling thru the season and not giving a shit about the results..
Wants to be like Kimi(who did F1 for hobby for last years), but is just a comedian..

WRCStan

4th September 2024, 18:16

at 5:20 you can see Norris just realizing f1 is nothing close to a simple R5 haha. tho right after he says he would not drive that because "he dont want to die" haha this is something regarding his brand Quadant?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDMplXKlz6E

That's the one I remembered, but forgot it was for Quadrant.

Why the fork would Lando do some random sh1t at this moment of his carreer..

Like what random sh1t?

saco0o

4th September 2024, 18:57

not lando. he is in an excellent position to leave f1 tbh. its probably that chinese fella because money and hes not actuallu doing that well in testing, its just PR because of money. if that means A NEW TEAM in wrc next year, then thats good news.

Fast Eddie WRC

5th September 2024, 14:44

Thierry Neuville takes a sharp dig at a rival team boss: “Did you lose already your driver?” ;)

https://rallyjournal.com/thierry-neuville-takes-a-sharp-dig-at-a-rival-team-boss-did-you-lose-already-your-driver/

Andre Oliveira

12th September 2024, 09:00

According paraguay journalist there are 9 requests of Rally1 cars to Rally Paraguay 2025.

Should be Galanti x2, Zaldivar x3, Saba,…

12th September 2024, 17:12

According paraguay journalist there are 9 requests of Rally1 cars to Rally Paraguay 2025.

Should be Galanti x2, Zaldivar x3, Saba,…

Then there will be at least 17 Rally1 cars, maybe even more. All time record!

saco0o

12th September 2024, 17:27

AE1WRC

12th September 2024, 18:28

is kalle realing returning full time next year? is there any official info on that or its just "he said that in 2023"? he looks to really enjoy these drifting events, woudnt be surpriesed if he went full EuroDriftMaster next year...? i think its also promoted by redbull gmbh

Yes next 2 years 2025 and 2026 he will be driving full time. His contract ends at the end of 2026. We'll see what he decides at that time.

saco0o

13th September 2024, 11:56

msport: sesks/munster
toyota: kalle/evans/pajari
hyundai: neuville/tanak/fourmaux

do you see this line-up happening? if i could change something, i'd rather keep fourmaux in msport to have solberg in hyundai, just for the sake of the youngsters

saco0o

13th September 2024, 15:50

latvala saying he understands the team needs 3 full time drivers fro 2025
https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/noticia/toyota-tres-gr-yaris-rally1-2025/

Fast Eddie WRC

13th September 2024, 15:51

Hyundai not in any rush to decide their 3rd Driver...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-analyzing-competition-before-deciding-on-third-driver/

Fast Eddie WRC

13th September 2024, 17:19

i i'd rather keep fourmaux in msport

Agreed. As Colin Clark said on his blog this week, being a 3rd Driver isnt the role for a driver aspiring to join the WRC elite.

Fourmaux wants to prove himself and his speed and going to be the back-up points-scoring driver at Hyundai isnt the role for him.

This is where Toyota went wrong with Katsuta. He's been trying to be fast but is under pressure to score Manufacturers points if Evans/Ogier/ Rovanpera goes off.

Fourmaux needs to stay at M-Sport.

TypeR

13th September 2024, 17:36

Comfort and ,,I know the car and everyone in the team is as a family member'' wise I would like him to stay in M-Sport, BUT drivers come n' go..
If you are offered a full time seat in a proper manu's car, then personally.. I think I would take it.

But never know, maybe his driving style would also suit with i20..

macebig

13th September 2024, 17:50

Fourmaux has nothing to gain by joining Hyundai. It would have been a good choice if there was potential to grow and take over from Neuville as lead driver in 2-3 years time. But, Hyundai won't be here in 2-3 years, so there is little sense in going there for a year as the 3rd driver and then be out of contract or in a Kronos Citroen 2006 situation.

"Username"

13th September 2024, 18:43

hyundai: neuville/tanak/fourmaux

do you see this line-up happening? if i could change something, i'd rather keep fourmaux in msport to have solberg in hyundai, just for the sake of the youngsters

Lol I remember one certain interview with Solberg about his time in Hyundai, he said that one guy, the world champion, was a cool guy, but the other one, a total cunt.

Tauri_J

14th September 2024, 05:34

Finally we have an endurance event in 2025

Eli

14th September 2024, 08:31

Finally we have an endurance event in 2025

Safari Rally Kenya? Acropolis Rally of Greece?

Tauri_J

14th September 2024, 09:07

Safari Rally Kenya? Acropolis Rally of Greece?

Pretty sure it will be Kenya

Dimitris

14th September 2024, 16:24

A collection of all the rumours so far, as well as how likely they are to happen

https://www.powerslideblog.com/wrc-news/wrc-driver-market-what-are-the-teams-planning-for-2025

becher

14th September 2024, 22:09

A collection of all the rumours so far, as well as how likely they are to happen

https://www.powerslideblog.com/wrc-news/wrc-driver-market-what-are-the-teams-planning-for-2025

Is that actually true that M_Sport tried to get Mikkelsen or Suninen?

Dimitris

14th September 2024, 22:56

[QUOTE=becher;1352333]Is that actually true that M_Sport tried to get Mikkelsen or Suninen?

Yes

mknight

15th September 2024, 04:46

deephouse

15th September 2024, 05:29

I read about Mikkelsen before but never about Suninen.
Sounds quite strange that. MSport kicked him back in 2021 and now instead of driving Rally1 with them he should have decided to drive the Rally2 Hyundai which even before this year looked worse than Skoda.

Maybe both are still flying high and want big paycheck. And then M-Sport did close the door. If Adrien would actually going to Hyundai I would rather seek to Sesks. If Adrien would stay I would demote Munster to Rally2 car alongside Jurgenson and still put Sesks in second car.

rallyfiend

15th September 2024, 08:23

Fast Eddie WRC

15th September 2024, 09:25

[QUOTE=becher;1352333]Is that actually true that M_Sport tried to get Mikkelsen or Suninen?

Yes

You seen to know the facts so give us the info how this happened and failed ?

Fast Eddie WRC

15th September 2024, 09:28

He probably has a few million euros to gain form joining Hyundai....

And that's the problem. He has a limited career window to make those millions.

But if he, like many others, has confidence he has a great career ahead, this isnt a good move. Playing the long game as M-Sport No.1 will pay off better down the line.

Danny0405

15th September 2024, 10:23

But if he, like many others, has confidence he has a great career ahead, this isnt a good move. Playing the long game as M-Sport No.1 will pay off better down the line.

Question mark may be about the future of the sport: will they be enough manufacturers paying good money for drivers in the future?
Not that simple from what we see currently.

Anyway, from last Abiteboul’s comments, it sounds like Hyundai has not really decided for sure to go with Fourmaux, waiting to see what’s Toyota wants to do and the results from the end of the season (probably especially Chile for Lappi as I think it will be difficult for Hyundai 3rd driver to make big results in Central Europa and Japan).

trykmann

15th September 2024, 10:39

But if he, like many others, has confidence he has a great career ahead, this isnt a good move. Playing the long game as M-Sport No.1 will pay off better down the line.

I believe Fourmaux can earn a lot of money in Hyundai with one year and the doors won't be closed in M-Sport after one year away.

macebig

15th September 2024, 12:54

Fourmaux isn't getting a seven figure contract from Hyundai when they're one foot out the door, be real.

Dimitris

16th September 2024, 12:57

[QUOTE=Dimitris;1352334]

You seen to know the facts so give us the info how this happened and failed ?

He had to bring his own sponsors etc, M-Sport wanted him to finance his drive most likely.

deephouse

16th September 2024, 13:20

I believe Fourmaux can earn a lot of money in Hyundai with one year and the doors won't be closed in M-Sport after one year away.

If he will be good elsewhere his value will increase and M-Sport is already in a hard situation to match his demands and try to match the improve performance of a car. Tanak and Loubet have taken their consistency problems elsewhere, they don't have enough funds to attract someone like Seb anymore. The pair of Puma and Adrien works well. And it should continue as (if 2027 will be put together right) Ford could be back full time. And having already proven and consistent driver in the team is a great chance of winning the titles straight away.

Krigen

16th September 2024, 16:36

Is that actually true that M_Sport tried to get Mikkelsen or Suninen?

M sport tried to get Olvier Solberg too, but he opted to go for one more year with Skoda try to be wrc 2 champion

saco0o

16th September 2024, 17:37

deephouse

16th September 2024, 18:14

M sport tried to get Olvier Solberg too, but he opted to go for one more year with Skoda try to be wrc 2 champion

I bet that after this year's car performance and durability, all who rejected their offer are banging their heads in the wall.

Lindholm was testing a Hyundai Rally1
https://rallyjournal.com/emil-lindholm-has-quietly-been-testing-hyundais-rally1-car/

Funny he said the car isn't good against the competition in WRC2. They just didn't hit the spot with choosing the right drivers. Paddon and Meeke, and I bet the title mountain would be shaking in all directions.

mknight

16th September 2024, 18:47

Lindholm was testing a Hyundai Rally1
https://rallyjournal.com/emil-lindholm-has-quietly-been-testing-hyundais-rally1-car/

good. if we could get sesks in msport, pajari in toyota, lindholm in hyundai, that would be really good for 2025.
toyota and hyundai planing to run 3 full timers each PLUS the wild card entries here and there.

and msport now is saying that "costs are not the problem". WELL, THEN GET A 3rd FULL TIME ENTRY TOO
if its Solberg, then its perfect!

If you actually read the article Lindholm was just making sure newly build cars work.

On a realistic note while Sesks did show good pace on his favorite rallies, he is nowhere near top of Rally2 on tarmac, so full time at this point is a bit of a stretch. Similarly Lindholm has basically won two rallies in total in his WRC2/Rally2 carrier.

Solberg got stable on gravel recently so he could do well on gravel. Avoiding tarmac just about all year (did Monte out of classification)

I bet that after this year's car performance and durability, all who rejected their offer are banging their heads in the wall.
Maybe. But at the time where seats were getting decided the cars of Tanak and Loubet were falling apart already after one shakedown run and Tanak claimed after every rally that he he no chance to fight with Toyota/Hyundai.
So it looked like completely foolish idea to join Msport.

I am still not quite sold on their performance either. Fourmaux is mostly getting lots of positions and results by road position+others crashing. Reliabilty is indeed much better though.

doubled1978

16th September 2024, 19:53

If you actually read the article Lindholm was just making sure newly build cars work.

On a realistic note while Sesks did show good pace on his favorite rallies, he is nowhere near top of Rally2 on tarmac, so full time at this point is a bit of a stretch. Similarly Lindholm has basically won two rallies in total in his WRC2/Rally2 carrier.

Solberg got stable on gravel recently so he could do well on gravel. Avoiding tarmac just about all year (did Monte out of classification)

Maybe. But at the time where seats were getting decided the cars of Tanak and Loubet were falling apart already after one shakedown run and Tanak claimed after every rally that he he no chance to fight with Toyota/Hyundai.
So it looked like completely foolish idea to join Msport.

I am still not quite sold on their performance either. Fourmaux is mostly getting lots of positions and results by road position+others crashing. Reliabilty is indeed much better though.

I agree that I don’t think the car is quite there with the others, it’s clearly improved in reliability and handling balance, but I think the engine still misses a bit and the suspension is not the best. It looks to me like it doesn’t control the mass of the car as well as the others and it lands like a turd off jumps etc.
Clearly I am just a bloke watching from the outside, so could be completely wrong, but that’s the impression I get.

becher

16th September 2024, 22:59

Fast Eddie WRC

17th September 2024, 08:29

Neuville says the decline of the WRC means there was nowhere else for him to go. He also mentions the possibility of a part-time programme in the future...

https://rallyjournal.com/harsh-words-from-hyundais-wrc-star-about-the-current-state-of-wrc/

Fast Eddie WRC

17th September 2024, 08:54

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie WRC;1352345]

He had to bring his own sponsors etc, M-Sport wanted him to finance his drive most likely.

In other words the same situation that it's been for years for non-elite drivers. Saying M-Sport failed to sign Suninen or Mikkelsen isnt right, it was the drivers who failed to provide the required funding.

macebig

17th September 2024, 12:18

Neuville may jump to IMSA or WEC. He's already done some circuit racing in the TCRs, so if Hyundai intends to carry him over, it will probably happen.

Dimitris

17th September 2024, 13:45

[QUOTE=Dimitris;1352393]

In other words the same situation that it's been for years for non-elite drivers. Saying M-Sport failed to sign Suninen or Mikkelsen isnt right, it was the drivers who failed to provide the required funding.

Mikkelsen preferred a partial programme with Hyundai over a full season with M-Sport, and Suninen deemed it too expensive, so no.

stavrosGDB

17th September 2024, 13:51

Fourmaux has the speed this year,watching the full onboard from Acropolis powerstage this year was quite scary.

AndyRAC

17th September 2024, 14:29

Neuville may jump to IMSA or WEC. He's already done some circuit racing in the TCRs, so if Hyundai intends to carry him over, it will probably happen.

:eek: That's a big call, and would be interesting to see. However, it's unlikely he has the experience/ speed for that........

macebig

17th September 2024, 16:17

Fast Eddie WRC

18th September 2024, 08:35

Mikkelsen preferred a partial programme with Hyundai over a full season with M-Sport, and Suninen deemed it too expensive, so no.

Their loss not M-Sport's, as Fourmaux has proved. I doubt either would've done any better than him.

Fast Eddie WRC

18th September 2024, 08:51

Neuville on rumours...

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-leader-dismisses-wild-rumour/

Dimitris

18th September 2024, 09:41

Their loss not M-Sport's, as Fourmaux has proved. I doubt either would've done any better than him.

Their loss, not M-Sport's?

- M-Sport approached them
- They turned them down
- Had to only field 2 cars, one is Gregoire Munster, so effectively one car
- Somehow it's the other driver's who lost.

M-Sport could have had a lineup with two competitive drivers, with one of them partnering up with Fourmaux, but instead they have Munster as a second driver. Come on now...

TypeR

18th September 2024, 10:57

I doubt Wilson offered something to Suninen.. as how he left the team and commented them some years ago..
Said only negative things..

Negaiss

18th September 2024, 19:28

Sesks is in a very good position at the moment - He has a great personality, good speaker, it is interesting to watch him telling about stages. He just appeared in a right place in right time. Everybody is talking about him and out of nowhere he appeared on WRC stage. The good thing is that he actually also has speed, at least on fast gravel and I believe also on snow. I Think it is highly likely, that we will see Sesks in M-Sport in 2025. I would guess - all European events - Rally1 on fast gravel and snow, Rally2 on tarmac for learning.

seb_sh

18th September 2024, 20:16

In IMSA, he can definitely hold his own. A good percentage of the grid is either Serderidis type of guys or Matthew Wilson's level of drivers. WEC is more difficult, especially if Genesis wants to be competitive straight away.

No way he can drive a LMDh competitively in either series based on a bit of circuit racing in touring cars. Also saying that IMSA GTP drivers are Serderidis or Wilson level is completely wrong. Almost all of them have extensive single seater and sports car experience. Unless Neuville does at least a test in an LMP2 and shows he can be competitive I would in fact expect him to be the Serderidis level driver compared to the others. There is close to 0 chance of him getting a Genesis drive.

deephouse

19th September 2024, 03:18

Even Seb tried some endurance racing with his pedigree, but failed straight away. How Neuville could do it?

AndyRAC

19th September 2024, 08:17

Even Seb tried some endurance racing with his pedigree, but failed straight away. How Neuville could do it?

He was pretty ordinary; he wasn't particularly fast, and was making mistakes. He soon realised it wasn't going to get him a Toyota Hypercar drive, and called it quits. It's a different skill set, and there's the issue of sharing a car with other drivers - and trying to reach a set up that suits them all. It's like when racing drivers struggle with making, and driving to pace notes....

Not all drivers are like Loeb, who was pretty good in the Pescarolo, and would have got better with more outings. McRae wasn't bad in the Prodrive-Ferrari either.

I'm all for athletes trying other disciplines, and I'd like to see Neuville have a go, but I can't imagine he'd be troubling the top guys.

Fast Eddie WRC

19th September 2024, 08:27

Wilson hopes to keep him & wants to make Fourmaux a World Champion but there are doubts about Ford continuing in WRC...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wilson-wants-to-make-fourmaux-world-champion-by-2026/

Fast Eddie WRC

19th September 2024, 08:32

Their loss, not M-Sport's?

- M-Sport approached them
- They turned them down
- Had to only field 2 cars, one is Gregoire Munster, so effectively one car
- Somehow it's the other driver's who lost.

M-Sport could have had a lineup with two competitive drivers, with one of them partnering up with Fourmaux, but instead they have Munster as a second driver. Come on now...

It was an offer and the deals didnt work as the drivers wouldnt bring funding. Both sides lost out, but M-Sport has had a good season and what have Suninen and Mikkelsen had ?

mknight

19th September 2024, 08:53

Suninen has had a terrible season, partly with terrible car reliability ,but I believe Jouhki just did not want to pay {MSport) any more.

Mikkelsen was in a fight for rally win until Sunday on his only gravel round, something Fourmaux has not managed yet. So hard to pick a clear winner/loser.

Fast Eddie WRC

19th September 2024, 09:07

Toyota considering a bold move... possibly running five Rally1 cars and using a satellite team:

https://rallyjournal.com/source-toyota-considering-bold-move-in-the-world-rally-championship/

Rallyest

19th September 2024, 11:13

Toyota considering a bold move... possibly running five Rally1 cars and using a satellite team:

https://rallyjournal.com/source-toyota-considering-bold-move-in-the-world-rally-championship/

So considering the rumours around other teams, we are not very far from changing the series name from World Rally championship to Toyota Rally championship :D