2024 - Race 13 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

[Matthew]

19 JUL
Practice 1: 13:30 - 14:30
Practice 2: 17:00 - 18:00

20 JUL
Practice 3: 12:30 - 13:30
Qualifying: 16:00 - 17:00

21 JUL
Race: 15:00

[Tazio]

McCheco is toast.

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[Tazio]

'noda!

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[Used to be Starter]

McCheco is toast.

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Buttered and done. He may have a contract for '25, but I suspect someone else may be in the seat.

[N. Jones]

McCheco is toast.

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Yeah, but who could replace him?

[Nitrodaze]

What the hell is McLaren doing? They took the win away from brilliant Piastri

[N. Jones]

This is not Norris' or Piastri's fault, this is McLaren fault.
These people have no idea how to win a race.

[N. Jones]

This is a BS race from McLaren.

[Nitrodaze]

This is a BS race from McLaren.

It is a very embarrassing race for McLaren. They clearly have a crap strategist. Whoever it is, cost them the win in Silverstone and created an unfair situation in Hungary. Both McLaren drivers are going to feel unhappy to experience the way the race turned out.

[Nitrodaze]

We see hints of Hamilton of old as he defended robustly from a faster Verstappen. There is still fire in the seven-time world champion.

[Used to be Starter]

We see hints of Hamilton of old as he defended robustly from a faster Verstappen. There is still fire in the seven-time world champion.
Yes, nice job forcing the error. It may cost Max a couple more places after the Stewards are done.

[Tazio]

Buttered and done. He may have a contract for '25, but I suspect someone else may be in the seat.Then he goes and has a decent race, maybe, just maybe saving his seat. I don't know, I think that they should just ax him. Get it over with.

BTW a very awkward ending to the race. McLaren begging Lando to let Osc' through...... Weird, comical, silly, strange, odd, or all of the above.


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[The Black Knight]

We see hints of Hamilton of old as he defended robustly from a faster Verstappen. There is still fire in the seven-time world champion.

Yup, was probably a racing incident alright. I do agree Hamilton could have done more to avoid the incident (in fact he seemed to actively turn into Max) and I think were it another driver other than Max he probably would have avoided it. Max has gotten away with a lot he shouldn't have in the past and got a bit of comeuppance today. Just like with Austria he won't learn because he's stupid to his own failings and he has a cowardly team that will never point the finger at him. He's showing he's the same petulant child he has always been, and simply can't handle heat of the moment battles. Human error champion.

I don't understand why McLaren didn't put Piastri first over Norris, there was no risk of Hamilton undercutting them. Self inflicted completely avoidable and pointless drama.

[F1nKS]

The whole McLaren thing is just stupid. They made their bed with their strategy call and now live with it. We must let the 2nd place driver have a win so he can feel good about himself, instead of him earning it on the track.

[ModelCarCollector]

Personally I think Lando shoulda won. Yes they sent him to pit first but he also qualified better, and he had a 5.5 or 6 second lead by the time he finally gave the position up. Completely unfair to Lando who was faster, and Piastri seemed ashamed lol

[ModelCarCollector]

What the hell is McLaren doing? They took the win away from brilliant Piastri

And then unfairly made Lando give up the win, after he qualified better and built up a 5.5 second lead over Piastri.

[Bagwan]

Two situations to comment on here .

McLaren could have solved it by apologizing to Lando and/or Opie during the race .
You let Lando know his team screwed up , and Opie should have been pitted first , so he must conform .
Or , you say sorry to Opie , but Lando is the guy who's fighting Max in the big picture , which is what the entire team should be concerned with .

It seemed poorly handled in the moment , but as explained afterwards , it made more sense , and was dealt with masterfully by Lando .
He impressed me today .



And then there's that other thing .

It was a dive by Max , but as I read that Lewis said he saw him coming from way back , I can't see any way to assign Max any blame on this one .
It was pretty clear to see Max was ahead at that point , and the stewards mentioned that Lewis could have done more to avoid contact . That's a rather large understatement , given he said he saw him , and remained on the same trajectory , instead of waiting for him to slide through , to take the position .
Lewis actually moved in early from the racing line as well , as was shown on Sky with Ant on the sky pad screen thingy , which I initially thought was a clever move by Lewis , to put Max on the Marbles , but then he placed his right front in front of Max's left rear .
That was dumb and dangerous .

So , this should have been a shake of the head miss for Max , and a pass for Lewis , but I believe it should have been a penalty for Lewis this time .

[Tazio]

Two situations to comment on here .

I can't see any way to assign Max any blame on this one .

I believe it should have been a penalty for Lewis this time .

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FgD6yQeyrV11aVAJ9

;)



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[Nitrodaze]

Yup, was probably a racing incident alright. I do agree Hamilton could have done more to avoid the incident (in fact he seemed to actively turn into Max) and I think were it another driver other than Max he probably would have avoided it. Max has gotten away with a lot he shouldn't have in the past and got a bit of comeuppance today. Just like with Austria he won't learn because he's stupid to his own failings and he has a cowardly team that will never point the finger at him. He's showing he's the same petulant child he has always been, and simply can't handle heat of the moment battles. Human error champion.

I don't understand why McLaren didn't put Piastri first over Norris, there was no risk of Hamilton undercutting them. Self inflicted completely avoidable and pointless drama.

I think there was enough room on the inside for Verstappen to complete an overtake if he had not locked up both the front tires. He did not expect Hamilton to break as late as he did, he tried to break even later but lost control as a result.

I fully expected them to call in Piastri, but they pitted Norris first. At which point, l thought they wanted Norris to win to keep the pressure on Verstappen and Redbull. On this track, track position is key. Once Norris had the clear air of the lead, Piastri was never going to catch him to retake the lead. It was just an embarrassing cock up of the strategist. He or she may well get replaced sooner or later. They are not going to beat Redbull with this level of incompdetence.

[Nitrodaze]

Then he goes and has a decent race, maybe, just maybe saving his seat. I don't know, I think that they should just ax him. Get it over with.

BTW a very awkward ending to the race. McLaren begging Lando to let Osc' through...... Weird, comical, silly, strange, odd, or all of the above.


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That was a magnificent race by Perez. On a track where it is difficult to overtake, he goes from 16th to 7th. And on a day where Riciardo; the favorite to replace him was having a bad day. Yuki keeps putting Ricciardo to shame. I wonder why Redbull are not considering him for the senior seat. He has shown that he is as good or even a better proposition compared to Lawson whom everyone is talking about.

[airshifter]

The cracks are showing in all the teams fighting at the top right now.

Merc screwed up with short fueling George so he couldn't complete more laps as the track dried up.

RB left Max out when they could have easily covered Lewis and instead decided to have him make up time after being undercut twice.

McLaren made a crap show out of being overly cautious, and the way they went about it was embarrassing to say the least.


Overall still an interesting race. Oscar made his mark on Lando quickly and never looked back until they gave Lando the undercut. Once RB screwed Max up Lewis frustrated him enough that he pushed the issue when he probably didn't have to. He had time on his side and got frustrated, and it hurt him in the end. As for the defending.... it's Hungary. Lewis defended and that's all he had to do. Though Lewis did seem to move a bit when the contact happened, Max was cooking in way too hot and washed towards Lewis some as well. I think they were right in racing incident, as the final contact what somewhat on both of them. Max was already in too hot, Lewis could have moved to avoid him but didn't, and Max paid the price. Similar to Austria really, except that it would have been much easier for Lando to avoid contact, and Lewis this time had the disadvantage of not being able to clearly see Max's exact trajectory as he steamed up the inside.


As for McLaren... just make the decision and go with it. There was really nothing wrong with playing it safe and pitting Lando first, but the groveling and begging on the radio was just insane. Being they screwed Oscar with the strategy, they should have just ordered them to reverse position within a lap or two. If Lando ignored the first call, the second call should have been from Stella. Then let them battle to the end if Lando was actually quicker.... simple. I actually think it's comical that both Lando and Stella tried to act as if it was never a question at all, when we all heard the radio exchanges. Team orders are legal, make the order and make it clear to the driver they will face consequences if they don't follow it.


Ferrari picked up the scraps they could, but are obviously not as quick as the top 3 teams right now. Both George and Perez did well to come though the pack, and Yuki and Lance had decent races to fill up the top 10.


It's a shame that McLaren played that they way they did. I think Oscar had Lando's number had they not played the strategy so wildly, and it will now give some people doubt. For me, I think it was Oscar's race and they just swapped them back to what would have been. Still it sucks to have such a controversial mess attached to a first full length win, but hopefully Oscar doesn't mind much. With both Merc and McLaren having strong driver pairings, it makes me wonder if they just tolerated Perez at Red Bull to allow someone else to take the WCC so they can get some more CFD and wind tunnel time for the last season of the current regs. With the cars converging at the front finally it might make sense to just accept that the WDC alone can bring them money, and most likely Max can do it alone.

[Matthew]

That was a glory day for McLaren in terms of the result but the pitting strategy was horrible, they could've risked a certain one-two finish if Hamilton was a genuine threat in this race.

[Used to be Starter]

Two situations to comment on here .

It was a dive by Max , but as I read that Lewis said he saw him coming from way back , I can't see any way to assign Max any blame on this one .
It was pretty clear to see Max was ahead at that point , and the stewards mentioned that Lewis could have done more to avoid contact . That's a rather large understatement , given he said he saw him , and remained on the same trajectory , instead of waiting for him to slide through , to take the position .
Lewis actually moved in early from the racing line as well , as was shown on Sky with Ant on the sky pad screen thingy , which I initially thought was a clever move by Lewis , to put Max on the Marbles , but then he placed his right front in front of Max's left rear .
That was dumb and dangerous .

So , this should have been a shake of the head miss for Max , and a pass for Lewis , but I believe it should have been a penalty for Lewis this time .

The contact was the result of the lock up. There was a little room there if Max had kept it under control, but when you lock up you are a rider and not a driver. I think Max was just frustrated from being held back as long as he was.

[Bagwan]

The contact was the result of the lock up. There was a little room there if Max had kept it under control, but when you lock up you are a rider and not a driver. I think Max was just frustrated from being held back as long as he was.

Max was a passenger at the point that Lewis drove into the path of his rear wheel .
All he had to do was avoid the overlap and watch him slide by .

The slide was Max's fault , but the contact was down to Lewis .

[Bagwan]

As for how poorly the Honey Badger did , I've read that they pitted him at the same time as all the others on softs when he was on mediums , so they destroyed any advantage he had on them .
They kept Yuki out at the same time , so it wasn't a happy Danny at the end of the race .

[Nitrodaze]

Check out this article https://medium.com/motor-racing/hungarian-gp-2024-999fafa2f0f3

[Nitrodaze]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FgD6yQeyrV11aVAJ9

;)



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Ha ha

[Nitrodaze]

And then unfairly made Lando give up the win, after he qualified better and built up a 5.5 second lead over Piastri.

Read this article https://medium.com/motor-racing/hungarian-gp-2024-999fafa2f0f3

[Nitrodaze]

The contact was the result of the lock up. There was a little room there if Max had kept it under control, but when you lock up you are a rider and not a driver. I think Max was just frustrated from being held back as long as he was.

There is usually more than one perspective of any incident in F1. Mostly depending on the support or dislike of one of the drivers involved. But let us try to take a fair objective view of what happened.

1. Verstappen breaks too late to make it around the corner, mainly because Hamilton breaks very late too. Breaking later than Hamilton was the only way for Verstappen to overtake Hamilton.
2. If you watch the clip of the incident, you will see that Hamilton left plenty of room on the inside for Verstappen to make an overtake if he had the car under control. He took a wider line in preparation to retake the position if Verstappen were to be able to complete a successful overtake
3. Hamilton had to turn in to go around the corner
4. Just like in Austria, Verstappen was carrying too much speed entering the apex to be able to turn in. His attempt to drastically reduce speed led to locking both front wheels.
5. Once the front tires were locked, the only direction Verstappen could go was straight on. He was a passenger from that point on.
6. Hamilton turns into the corner expecting Verstappen to turn into the corner also
7. The collision occurred because Verstappen was unable to turn into the corner and went straight across the front of Hamilton's car. For the second time, a Redbull goes flying airborne around a Mercedes.
8. Verstappen appears to be ahead because he was not slowing down to turn into the corner relative to Hamilton who had successfully slowed the Mercedes to be able to execute a controlled turn into the corner

Hence, l agree with you completely

Some would say Hamilton could have done more to prevent the collision. I don't think that is the case. The collision was inevitable even if Hamiton had not turned in. The only real way to avoid damage was for Hamilton to join Verstappen off-track which only helps Verstappen to take the position from the resulting avoidance. As he did with Norris in Austria.

Without the speed of the Redbull, we get to see the true level of racecraft Verstappen is lacking in wheel-to-wheel combat. He is fast but not up there with the best racers of this generation when it comes to wheel-to-wheel intelligence and racecraft. The likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Sainz, Perez and Ricciardo comes to mind.

[The Black Knight]

There is usually more than one perspective of any incident in F1. Mostly depending on the support or dislike of one of the drivers involved. But let us try to take a fair objective view of what happened.

1. Verstappen breaks too late to make it around the corner, mainly because Hamilton breaks very late too. Breaking later than Hamilton was the only way for Verstappen to overtake Hamilton.
2. If you watch the clip of the incident, you will see that Hamilton left plenty of room on the inside for Verstappen to make an overtake if he had the car under control. He took a wider line in preparation to retake the position if Verstappen were to be able to complete a successful overtake
3. Hamilton had to turn in to go around the corner
4. Just like in Austria, Verstappen was carrying too much speed entering the apex to be able to turn in. His attempt to drastically reduce speed led to locking both front wheels.
5. Once the front tires were locked, the only direction Verstappen could go was straight on. He was a passenger from that point on.
6. Hamilton turns into the corner expecting Verstappen to turn into the corner also
7. The collision occurred because Verstappen was unable to turn into the corner and went straight across the front of Hamilton's car. For the second time, a Redbull goes flying airborne around a Mercedes.
8. Verstappen appears to be ahead because he was not slowing down to turn into the corner relative to Hamilton who had successfully slowed the Mercedes to be able to execute a controlled turn into the corner

Hence, l agree with you completely

Some would say Hamilton could have done more to prevent the collision. I don't think that is the case. The collision was inevitable even if Hamiton had not turned in. The only real way to avoid damage was for Hamilton to join Verstappen off-track which only helps Verstappen to take the position from the resulting avoidance. As he did with Norris in Austria.

Without the speed of the Redbull, we get to see the true level of racecraft Verstappen is lacking in wheel-to-wheel combat. He is fast but not up there with the best racers of this generation when it comes to wheel-to-wheel intelligence and racecraft. The likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Sainz, Perez and Ricciardo comes to mind.

This is the way I see it as well. You look back to Imola, Spain 2021 where Hamilton backed out, was forced off track and let Verstappen by. He simply isn't doing this anymore. Ultimately this is what caused their comings together in Silverstone and Monza that year as well. This is what caught Verstappen in Hungary. Verstappen seems to think it's okay to simply drive others off the track once he makes the corner and gains a position. This isn't the case and others aren't willing to be bullied by him anymore. Verstappen, much like Vettel in his Red Bull days, has all the signs of a driver that never receives consequences for his actions and is overrated. I still firmly believe that, like Vettel, he'll be found out some day. The cracks are beginning to show already when he's under a tiny bit of pressure, he just can't handle it because he has been so pampered and gifted titles by the sports governing body.

I do agree with the Stewards that Hamilton could have avoided the crash, I just don't see why he should have avoided it. This sort of stuff needs to keep happening until Max either loses a title over it or his brain comprehends that this is not how you go racing but, right now, he has more to lose than anyone else.

[Nitrodaze]

This sort of stuff needs to keep happening until Max either loses a title over it or his brain comprehends that this is not how you go racing but, right now, he has more to lose than anyone else.

This is what l mean by wheel-to-wheel intelligence. If he kept his head, he may have finished 3rd rather than 5th. He is the championship leader with the most to lose in a crash.

[Nitrodaze]

By the way, MotorRacing (https://medium.com/motor-racing) publications on Medium invite everyone to write an article on their perspective on F1 and motor racing in general. You can earn some income from Medium depending on how much your articles are read. Give it a go and see what you think. The publication shall publish your article unaltered and uncensored as long as it is in keeping with the guidelines (https://medium.com/motor-racing/publication-guidelines-6a1d2e24fac9) of the platform.

I am a co-editor of the publication, hence l shall be happy to process your article regardless of your point of view.

[The Black Knight]

This is what l mean by wheel-to-wheel intelligence. If he kept his head, he may have finished 3rd rather than 5th. He is the championship leader with the most to lose in a crash.

Yup, I think the overtake was there for Max had he kept his head and waited for a proper opportunity. Patience is not a virtue to with which he is very familiar.

[Steve Boyd]

If he kept his head, he may have finished 3rd rather than 5th.He was still angry from being told to yield the place he took off track at the beginning of the race. The trouble is that Horner has never put him in his place after incidents in the past & Jos just encourages him. He'll never change.

[Used to be Starter]

He was still angry from being told to yield the place he took off track at the beginning of the race. The trouble is that Horner has never put him in his place after incidents in the past & Jos just encourages him. He'll never change.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how he deals with the rest of life after racing is done.

[The Black Knight]

He was still angry from being told to yield the place he took off track at the beginning of the race. The trouble is that Horner has never put him in his place after incidents in the past & Jos just encourages him. He'll never change.

It was the same with Vettel, they never take responsibility for their drivers or hold them to task. As soon as Vettel left cracks began to show when things didn’t go his way. His expletive laden rant at Charlie in Mexico, his driving into Lewis in Baku. You can see even traces of this with Sainz at times. Red Bull ruin drivers. As a team boss I’d never employ a former RBR driver no matter how many championships they won with them.