[WRC] Central European Rally 17-20.10.2024

[Eli]

Some information released yesterday about the second edition of the Central European Rally which will again include 18 Special Stages & 310kms of competitive action:
https://www.centraleuropeanrally.eu/post/second-staging-of-the-central-european-rally-promises-thrilling-rally-action

[Mirek]

The shakedown is going to be on Prague outskirts. Most likely on one stage known from Prague Rallysprint.

[greensky5]

Wich are the best Spectator spots?
thanks

[Duvel]

Hello,
anybody know if stageside camping is possible here or there?

Also would like to know the good spots to spectate!

[Danny0405]

Maybe it has been said elsewhere but 15 women have been selected for a training at M-Sport Poland next week: 3 of them will be selected to make a Rally3 drive in Central Europa Rally and in the end, one will be selected for a Junior WRC program next year.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-reveals-its-15-womens-driver-development-finalists/

Took a brief look at their results on ewrc as I knew only the name of 3 of them: sounds like Raftery has much more experience than the others (but limited potential).

Also a question mark about which male drivers will be there to have something to compare … probably Filip Kohn at least.

[kudy]

to Duvel

1. Yes, it's somehow tolerated during the rally, better if the owner agrees.

2. From each stage there will be onboard video soon. For now, you can watch last year's videos. However, not many of this year's stages were on itinerary in 2023. E.g. powerstage is 90% the same as the 2023 version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYGTkEgLnhc).


Shakedown - 100% new

SS1 - same as last year

SS 2/3/6 Klatovy - 90% is new, only the first kilometre of the stage is the same as before.

SS 4/7 Strasin- 100% new stage, approx. 15 km of the stage is in the opposite direction to last year's stage.

SS5/8 Sumavske Hostice - 80% of this stage was run last year, 20% is new.

SS 9/12 Granit und Wald - 100% new stage

SS10/13 Beyond Borders - 85% new stage, last 2km in the opposite direction, 15% same as last year,

SS11/14 Schardinger Innviertel - 100% new stage, last 5 km in the opposite direction

SS15/17 Hochwald - 100% new stage

SS16/18 Passauer Land - 90% same as last year, 10% new

[JTGANG]

Got my tickets today !!! Can't wait to be there....Hope the weather helps as well

[becher]

Last year this YT channel made "recce" videos for all the stages:

https://youtube.com/@ghrallyemotion?feature=shared

Maybe he is going to do it again this year, if not it is still worth looking at a few of them as not the whole route is new.

[philippebugalski]

to Duvel

1. Yes, it's somehow tolerated during the rally, better if the owner agrees.

2. From each stage there will be onboard video soon. For now, you can watch last year's videos. However, not many of this year's stages were on itinerary in 2023. E.g. powerstage is 90% the same as the 2023 version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYGTkEgLnhc).


Shakedown - 100% new

SS1 - same as last year

SS 2/3/6 Klatovy - 90% is new, only the first kilometre of the stage is the same as before.

SS 4/7 Strasin- 100% new stage, approx. 15 km of the stage is in the opposite direction to last year's stage.

SS5/8 Sumavske Hostice - 80% of this stage was run last year, 20% is new.

SS 9/12 Granit und Wald - 100% new stage

SS10/13 Beyond Borders - 85% new stage, last 2km in the opposite direction, 15% same as last year,

SS11/14 Schardinger Innviertel - 100% new stage, last 5 km in the opposite direction

SS15/17 Hochwald - 100% new stage

SS16/18 Passauer Land - 90% same as last year, 10% new


Any more info on stage onboard videos coming soon? Thanks in advance

[Danny0405]

https://x.com/OfficialWRC/status/1836491845540499871?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

The 3 winners of the Beyond Rally program with the prize drive in Central Europa in Fiesta Rally3.
A bit surprising not to see Raftery which was the most experienced.

Not an easy one for Schonborn to almost begin in straight rally with a WRC round (just one e-rally so far where she did rather good).

[PLuto]

https://x.com/OfficialWRC/status/1836491845540499871?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

The 3 winners of the Beyond Rally program with the prize drive in Central Europa in Fiesta Rally3.
A bit surprising not to see Raftery which was the most experienced.

Not an easy one for Schonborn to almost begin in straight rally with a WRC round (just one e-rally so far where she did rather good).

For me it is quite nonsense to send them directly to WRC round...

[Danny0405]

For me it is quite nonsense to send them directly to WRC round...

+ with a 4WD car.
Globally agree on that point, I’m skeptical about making such a big jump without a transition period with for exemple Rally4 car in ERC.

Baudet sounds in better situation for Central Europa with more experience on pure rallying and tarmac but still a big jump from Belgian championship RC5 drives (and e-rally cup).
Should be much harder for the Finnish one IMO.

Schonborn can be surprising on some stages with her hill experience but I doubt she can match on a full Rally all 3 days.

[Duvel]

to Duvel

1. Yes, it's somehow tolerated during the rally, better if the owner agrees.

2. From each stage there will be onboard video soon. For now, you can watch last year's videos. However, not many of this year's stages were on itinerary in 2023. E.g. powerstage is 90% the same as the 2023 version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYGTkEgLnhc).


Shakedown - 100% new

SS1 - same as last year

SS 2/3/6 Klatovy - 90% is new, only the first kilometre of the stage is the same as before.

SS 4/7 Strasin- 100% new stage, approx. 15 km of the stage is in the opposite direction to last year's stage.

SS5/8 Sumavske Hostice - 80% of this stage was run last year, 20% is new.

SS 9/12 Granit und Wald - 100% new stage

SS10/13 Beyond Borders - 85% new stage, last 2km in the opposite direction, 15% same as last year,

SS11/14 Schardinger Innviertel - 100% new stage, last 5 km in the opposite direction

SS15/17 Hochwald - 100% new stage

SS16/18 Passauer Land - 90% same as last year, 10% new


Thanks for the info, hope to be there!

[kudy]

i have info that GH brings onboards at the beginning of next week.

Anyway if you want here is onboard from SS2/3/6 Klatovy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNqdBWmFwQ8

[Co-driven]

For me it is quite nonsense to send them directly to WRC round...

And a complicated tarmac rally like CER.

[Andre Oliveira]

I expect around 40 entries only.

[becher]

I expect around 40 entries only.

In total?

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes :(

[JTGANG]

I think today they are published , correct ?

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYPeIMPWsAAvQJF?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GYPeIMJXsAAJrpI?format=jpg&name=large

[mknight]

Good to see Solberg (even outside WRC2) he definitely needs tarmac starts.

Will be interesting to see Pajari in Rally1 when he was nowhere near top in Rally2 last year.

[becher]

44 entries for a WRC round in the middle of europe is quit weak isn't it?

[mknight]

Yes, but "normal" these days. Poland had 42, Latvia 38. Croatia 67.

[wyler]

44 entries for a WRC round in the middle of europe is quit weak isn't it?

honestly, looks good to me. a decent number, all cars rally1/2/3 (and a rgt), good average quality of the drivers, an easy amount of car to be managed by the marshalls to avoid delays, and manageable also for spectator to have time to move between ss.

i think around 50 car from the top 3 classes is a good call for wrc round looking for an "elite" rally event.

[Jarek Z]

honestly, looks good to me. a decent number, all cars rally1/2/3 (and a rgt), good average quality of the drivers, an easy amount of car to be managed by the marshalls to avoid delays, and manageable also for spectator to have time to move between ss.

So poor entry list is now an advantage? You must be working at FIA ;)

[becher]

I mean I'm not really complaining, just surprised. Not so long ago you had 80-90 entries on european events and Mexico was considered a bit silly with only 38 entries for example.

[wyler]

So poor entry list is now an advantage? You must be working at FIA ;)


mate, why don't you focus on the arguments instead of making cheap irony...

there's a lot people here complaining that the sport is dying but never gets where the return of interest everybody seeks is.

i don't think short=poor. in this case poor is very wrong wording: There's only rally1/2/3 cars (top tiers, all awd). the average quality of drivers is high (wrc, wrc2, erc contender. good regional player, manus backed drivers in the lower tiers (i.e clio rally3). that's very marketable for the promoter.

event wise in handling world tier event lower number + high quality is the best case. (almost all world championships are limited, being team sport or individual -take olympics as example -).

we can pretend is not true, but a vast majority of people attending wrc race live moves to other ss after 10/15 cars, generating quite some management and safety issues.

for logistic of marshalls and course director, is the same: more cars=more running time, more crash/delaying issue probability, less time to set up and restore the ss and arrange the spectators. like it or not, focus of wrc event is on top 1/2 tiers. all the activities prioritize wrc/wrc2.

shorter run time also means shorter road closure (not only for ss, but regroup, media zone, tyre fitting, etc) getting less fuss from residents and local administration, as well as with space logistics in towns to host service areas, parc fermè. (also smaller parc fermè can be installed in iconic places/landmarks in town, generating pr/marketing value)

and so on, there's more...

point is: promoting-wise, it's the quality that makes the roi, not the number. a smaller event is more manageable and way more marketable IF quality is high.

[Andre Oliveira]

44 entries in 3 coutries with so much rally history can't be good. Say what you want. It is bad, very bad. WRC is dying.

In Saudi Arabia we will have 9 cars and 2 camels?

[rallyfiend]

I don't think this entry list is a reflection on the WRC - and I think that's a harsh comparison. The entry list for WRC2 and WRC3 throughout the season is at a record high (or close to). The elite level is doing well.

I think this entry list is a clear reflection on this event and the complexity, cost and ballache that it creates. It's a nightmare to move constantly for recce, then for the event too.

Competitors have clearly voted with their feet and decided this event is just not worth it. It's a failed experiment in format. I'd be surprised if it continues - or is allowed to continue....

[Backa]

44 entries in 3 coutries with so much rally history can't be good. Say what you want. It is bad, very bad. WRC is dying.

Is it possible small amount of entries is done on purpose? Poland and Latvia had quite decent amount of entries in ERC in 2023 and much smaller in WRC in 2024. Maybe WRC wants to avoid organizational issues and push their entry fee higher to limit it.

WRC events brings more spectators and many of them are interested only in Rally1 and Rally2.

[EstWRC]

I don't think this entry list is a reflection on the WRC - and I think that's a harsh comparison. The entry list for WRC2 and WRC3 throughout the season is at a record high (or close to). The elite level is doing well.

I think this entry list is a clear reflection on this event and the complexity, cost and ballache that it creates. It's a nightmare to move constantly for recce, then for the event too.

Competitors have clearly voted with their feet and decided this event is just not worth it. It's a failed experiment in format. I'd be surprised if it continues - or is allowed to continue....

And I agree.

Ditch this one and bring back Croatia.

Was a nice experiment indeed

[mknight]

And I agree.

Ditch this one and bring back Croatia.

Was a nice experiment indeed

As I wrote a page ago Poland had 42 entries Latvia 38.

So if you want to start ditching for sub 50 entries in Europe you have quite a few rallies to ditch.

[rallyfiend]

As I wrote a page ago Poland had 42 entries Latvia 38.

So if you want to start ditching for sub 50 entries in Europe you have quite a few rallies to ditch.

Entry numbers should not be the entire basis for determining the success of a rally.

In the case of CER, it's clear that it's just not working as a concept.

[wyler]

44 entries in 3 coutries with so much rally history can't be good. Say what you want. It is bad, very bad. WRC is dying.

In Saudi Arabia we will have 9 cars and 2 camels?

rally1 rally2 and rally3 entrys tell the opposite. i think people here are too stuck in the past and into that kind of mentality that is "it's always been like this, so has to be good". time are changing and the needs for those who finance the sport too. i ll not be surprised if this kind of entry list will become somewhat the standard (ignore it or not, we had already a lot of rounds like this in recent times, from Mexico to Latvia, maybe even with lesser quality).
And somehow is not so strange or even a bad thing that a wrc round is too complex for sunday drivers... think at montecarlo - the most historical estate in wrc - for them is normal to ditch the bottom of the classification for the last day...

another little thing about return of interest in wrc event promotion (but also apply to erc): most of the drivers in the long list are quite invisible on social media, and I'm talking about fan footage, not official reportage. this has to be taken into account. interest is in top 20 - maybe less - cars.

[mknight]

Entry numbers should not be the entire basis for determining the success of a rally.

In the case of CER, it's clear that it's just not working as a concept.

If it is not entry numbers I don't get what is "clear". Especially after it was only run once.

From my side the part which is stupid is starting in Prague and the location of the service park in relation to the stages.
The locations of the (normal) stages, the stages themselves and the idea of rally in 3 countries next to each other I see no "clear" problems with.

[denkimi]

If there are not enough entries that only means it is too expensive for most.

[wyler]

If there are not enough entries that only means it is too expensive for most.

true, but world-level sport events (including wrc rallies) are not aiming at them.

[Jarek Z]

mate, why don't you focus on the arguments instead of making cheap irony...

Mate, I didn't want to offend you. Don't take it personally, please :)


there's a lot people here complaining that the sport is dying but never gets where the return of interest everybody seeks is.

i don't think short=poor.

So what do you think? That short = good? How come? Everyone complains about decreasing number of entries in WRC, but you say it is a good trend? When I started watching rallies an event with entry list below 60 crews was considered a flop. This rally has 44 entries and you consider it a good quality event? 44 entries in the middle of Europe, the hotbed of rally sport?

You say that "short is good", but even Rally1 manufacturers want more entries:

"it’s clear that we need more brands, we need more cars, we need more drivers, we need more show" - Cyril Abiteboul from Hyundai

"As a Toyota car manufacturer, I hope that this would give some sort of message to other car manufacturers to take part in WRC" - Jari-Matti Latvala from Toyota

[mknight]

There is a difference between what types of extra entries.

2 top category cars are infinitely more important than 20 extra Rally 3/4 cars.

[denkimi]

There is a difference between what types of extra entries.

2 top category cars are infinitely more important than 20 extra Rally 3/4 cars.
2 top drivers are more important, no matter what car they drive. Having another serderidis has no value.

[mknight]

I'd say having Serderidis opening the road and getting tons of time on allive actually has negative value. Doesn't look like much of a "top" sport.

[meh]

What is going on with Evans? Crashed into first corner? (or the Maps failing to show up-to-date info). No split times as well.

edit: seems to be moving again...

edit 2: ok, going through in road-mode and it is the same for others. Stage cancelled.

[Jarek Z]

What is going on with Evans? Crashed into first corner? (or the Maps failing to show up-to-date info). No split times as well.

edit: seems to be moving again...

edit 2: ok, going through in road-mode and it is the same for others. Stage cancelled.

That's a wrong thread. This rally hasn't started yet :)

[Backa]

I'd say having Serderidis opening the road and getting tons of time on allive actually has negative value. Doesn't look like much of a "top" sport.

Some of that negative value is due broadcast direction decisions than due to pay-driver, who also has some positive value, helping M-Sport be more safe financially. It's ok to show Serderidis a little but broadcast should give him less air-time, especially when more competitive drivers are already on stage.

[mknight]

Agree

That he is allowed to enter is perfectly fine.

That he runs before Rally2s and even more importantly as first car on Saturday/Sunday is questionable.

That he is shown on all live (onboard) for basically any amount of time is directly damaging the series.

The last point can be addressed directly ( not showing him) or indirectly by running him after WRC2.

[Mary Mary]

Agree

That he is allowed to enter is perfectly fine.

That he runs before Rally2s and even more importantly as first car on Saturday/Sunday is questionable.

That he is shown on all live (onboard) for basically any amount of time is directly damaging the series.

The last point can be addressed directly ( not showing him) or indirectly by running him after WRC2.

Just as long as you're not in the "Rally2 with privateers as top class" camp.

[Mirek]

I am from Prague and this event brings the WRC to my home city but as others stated before I can see that this concept proved itself to be overambitious and far too expensive. The original meaning of the word rally is to gather the motorsport enthusiasts together to race against each other. In that sense Barum managed to rally them, CER clearly not. There are nearly 200 competitors in Barum every year with far majority being locals and then there is CER with 5 Czech crews. That comparison is absolutely brutal. While Barum managed to establish itself as a sort of festival where everyone tries to be every year the CER WRC event combines huge cost with no tradition and it doesn't work. You might say that these local competitors are not needed in a WRC event but I say they are because they are the reflection of the general popularity of the said event and of course they bring money to the organization.

[mknight]

While I get what you are saying and agree with parts I really doubt "WRC Barum" would get higher interest than CER if it was ran at end of October with similar starting fees.

Lots of crews "run out of money" by the end of the year and/or have nothing to compete for. The starting fees are probably for the most part necessary to handle large number of spectators and closed/damaged roads in populated areas. They could probably be lower if they dropped the whole "Prague" part.

The "tradition" part is off course true. But some CER Friday stages are the "traditional" ones from Sumava Rally. But Sumava doesn't really have any name outside of CZ and stages like the "circuit" are at best mediocre.

[wyler]

Mate, I didn't want to offend you. Don't take it personally, please :)



So what do you think? That short = good? How come? Everyone complains about decreasing number of entries in WRC, but you say it is a good trend? When I started watching rallies an event with entry list below 60 crews was considered a flop. This rally has 44 entries and you consider it a good quality event? 44 entries in the middle of Europe, the hotbed of rally sport?

You say that "short is good", but even Rally1 manufacturers want more entries:

"it’s clear that we need more brands, we need more cars, we need more drivers, we need more show" - Cyril Abiteboul from Hyundai

"As a Toyota car manufacturer, I hope that this would give some sort of message to other car manufacturers to take part in WRC" - Jari-Matti Latvala from Toyota

mate, just read above. i've already explained my point in the same post you quoted and another, and will be happy to argument it more, if there's interest and respect of other's opinions.

[kudy]

Hello,
anybody know if stageside camping is possible here or there?

Also would like to know the good spots to spectate!


According to the latest information, camping will not be possible on the Czech stages. 24 hours before all access roads will be closed.

https://www.pamk.cz/cer2024/

[kudy]

here is what you can expect on Strašín stage. Section from the start to Kváskovice by Václav Pech (time 2:38 until 8:33). Unfortunately, today's asphalt surface is much better.



https://youtu.be/Mhd0dzZqSyM?si=Ldvh4Fx-_uHC4gjq&t=158

[hari]

Thierry Neuville is going to compete at Herbst Rallye in Austria next week with Rally1 in preparation for WRC CER 2024.

➡️ https://www.herbstrallye.at/2024/news_2024_02.html

Last year Tanak won the event in Puma Rally1.

[GlennM]

Hi all!

Does anyone know if there'll be something to see in the Karpfham service park on Thursday? I guess it'll be pretty dead untill friday evening.
Is the main service park in Karpfham or in Klatovy?

[TypeR]

Thierry Neuville is going to compete at Herbst Rallye in Austria next week with Rally1 in preparation for WRC CER 2024.

➡️ https://www.herbstrallye.at/2024/news_2024_02.html

Last year Tanak won the event in Puma Rally1.
Like he doesn't know how to drive the car on tarmac :D

[PLuto]

Hi all!

Does anyone know if there'll be something to see in the Karpfham service park on Thursday? I guess it'll be pretty dead untill friday evening.
Is the main service park in Karpfham or in Klatovy?

Main service park is in Karpfham. Everybody will be there on Wednesday for scrutineering. Later that day (or next day very early in the morning) everybody will move to Prague to Velka Chuchle, where will be remote service during Thursday. On Thursday afternoon everybody will move to Janovice, where will be remote service during Friday. On Friday afternoon/evening everybody will move to Karpfham, where will be night service. And everybody will stay there until Sunday.

[GlennM]

Working on Google Maps stages. Will post link when finished.

2565

[Mirek]

Onboards from stages.
https://www.youtube.com/@GHrallyemotion/videos

[GlennM]

Stages on Google Maps:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=nl&mid=1QtADt_4BJs4346TIU87WLkYVcDHCx1M&ll=49.27707379651569%2C14.332269673540985&z=9

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dont think this has been posted...
Why Rovanpera hasn't been asked to do CER:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-rovanpera-hasnt-been-asked-to-do-cer/

[Rallyper]

No matter how beautiful this rally is looked upon, I don´t like it.
High speed, tarmac, rain. bumpy stages... I enjoy watching it from home, but have a serious feeling safety margins is zero, whatever it means for drivers, spectators etz.

[Mirek]

No matter how beautiful this rally is looked upon, I don´t like it.
High speed, tarmac, rain. bumpy stages... I enjoy watching it from home, but have a serious feeling safety margins is zero, whatever it means for drivers, spectators etz.

This rally is far less bumpy than Barum. In our standards it's not bumpy at all except several short sections on Friday and Thursday night.

The Friday stages are partially same with Historic rally Vltava which has been very popular among Swedish or Finnish crews. You might ask some of them why they like it. Some are even here on the forum with us.

[Rallyper]

This rally is far less bumpy than Barum. In our standards it's not bumpy at all except several short sections on Friday and Thursday night.

The Friday stages are partially same with Historic rally Vltava which has been very popular among Swedish or Finnish crews. You might ask some of them why they like it. Some are even here on the forum with us.

I don´t have to ask other persons opinions, when formulating my own. Let´s erase the word bumpy then. Doesn´t make the rally so much safer in my eyes.
Having said that I´m looking forward watching CER from home pc.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A PET just to get you in the mood... and this is the slowest Rally1 driver ! :disturb:

https://youtu.be/jQShTfVscwc?si=MVodYIF2tNwTUgSb

[mknight]

Pretty sure Serderidis will be slowest Rally1.

Apart from him I think it is quite possible that Munster will be faster than Pajari.

[Walach]

When they met head to head on tarmac last year in Croatia, Pajari was significantly faster than Munster in RC2. Think it will be interesting comparison between two of them at CER.