2024 - Rcae 10 Spanish GP - Barcelona

[Nitrodaze]

You were probably thinking Redbull was going to turn up at Barcelona and stamp an authoritative pole gap on the rest of the field. Well well it is so close, the top ten times are within less than half a second of the pole time. While Redbull still has the pace, they looked less composed in their long run, which was quick but not their usual high standards.
They are looking vulnerable, but Verstappen is making the difference by putting the Redbull ahead of the pack. I have a feeling, Barcelona may be as tricky as Canada. Anyone in the top six can win this race, it seems.

A Lando repeat win or a Mercedes win would definitely get everyone talking. But where are the scarlet Ferraris? How did Aston Martin slip out in Q2?

Whatever the case, we are set for a cracking Spanish GP. Who is your money on to win the race? Who would make it to the steps of the podium?

I have never seen Toto more mad than in his press statement of the Sabotage email. I wonder what that was about?

[airshifter]

With literally no gap in Canada between positions 1 and 2, it grows to a huge gap of a couple hundredths this race. Both Lando and Max picked up tows to start their laps as well, while the Mercs didn't. So really that gap of just under 3 tenths to Hamilton is misleading, and both Merc cars were strong as well. And Lewis beats George in qually for a change, even if there was only a couple thousandths in it. But at this point in the season he could use a confidence boost, and starting up front won't hurt. I'm personally having a hard time finding any evidence that this new formula is/was a failure. The cars are without doubt converging at the front.

It should be noted that the Mercs have no brand new softs, and even though they are low lap tires, that might allow Lando and/or Max better starts and possibly the chance to extend out of DRS range if they push.

I would be hard pressed to pick a winner for tomorrow, as the cars have come together enough that even very small mistakes might determine finishing order. Merc and McLaren both seemed to have solid race pace, but it's also well known that Red Bull were either running lower engine modes or high fuel for race pace testing, so they aren't out of the hunt either. And if Ferrari nail the expected conditions, they are far from out of the race as well. I think if anything the Red Bull is just as strong as the McLaren, so I suspect it will amount to a tire strategy and pace battle. And the Mercs are close enough to be in play as well, they just didn't get the tow in qually. But props to Lando, I think he put in the best lap of the top cars and was the difference today. I'd like to see him get another win myself, but it could just as easily be any of the top 4, if not the top 6. But is should be a great race, and I hope everyone has similar enough setups that nobody walks away easily if the temps change. And we do have at least a small chance of rain..... that could make it even better.


Then again, with Flavio at Alpine, chances are Gasly will pit a bit early for hards, and Ocon will have a sudden spin bringing out the safety car. :laugh:


As for Toto's comments, spot on in my opinion. When the rabid fanboi conspiracy theorists reach this point I see no reason to allow it to go unchecked. Anything similar is just a smear campaign, but those smears get heard by potential and current sponsors, drivers, etc, etc. Involving the police to search for answers is the right course of action if you ask me. And Toto's suggestion that such people need to talk to a shrink seem valid as well.

[Nitrodaze]

Nah this is F1, It has a huge following of avid followers who take an interest in every fine detail of the sport. As such all aspect is open to speculations and open discussion. Which is what fandom is all about. Obviously, some may get too excited and start writing emails. Usually, such emails would find their way into the junk folder. What is interesting is why it bothered Mercedes so much as to want to take action. Are they going to be parading with a big stick at all Mercedes criticisms on the internet? A fan with a very strong feeling about something is definitely not a nutter, l felt that was out of order from Toto. That said, this is not to encourage people to start sending emails about their ill-conceived notions of what is going on, to the teams. If one has a strong feeling about anything, that is why these forums exist. They should come on these forums and say what they think and let us have a debate about it. Certainly not writing to the team who have better things to do.

On the subject, there would always be suspicions in this very particular scenario where we have a driver leaving the team and the team having to manage their technical exposure to the leaving driver. The reduction of information on the new aspects of the car, would always translate into a loss of performance on track. They are clearly trying to find a way of managing the situation effectively but Hamilton would not escape suffering from the situation in some way. Obviously, the team has to protect their Intellectual Property and whatever is in their best interest in the future.

That said, the situation is very amusing. Especially the bit about getting the police involved.

[Nitrodaze]

I think Verstappen had the faster car all weekend. Even with the trivial balance issue they had which they quickly sorted out. The failure was Verstappen not getting pole in the faster car. Which only gives evidence of what a great driver Norris is becoming. I looked at the timings and felt Max slowed down toward the end. I think that he was capable of finishing over ten seconds ahead if he wanted to. I am beginning to wonder if Redbull is sandbagging to make the races look harder than they actually are.

I somehow can not see the McLaren catching and passing the Redbull in a Barcelona race. Maybe, l am a bit slow to the plight of the Redbull in tough competition. I doubt it is that tough, Redbull has a notch or two of performance if they need to unleash it l think. But seeing where Perez ended up, maybe not.

Nonetheless, it is tougher to lose a race from pole position than from chasing from behind.

[Bagwan]

Nah this is F1, It has a huge following of avid followers who take an interest in every fine detail of the sport. As such all aspect is open to speculations and open discussion. Which is what fandom is all about. Obviously, some may get too excited and start writing emails. Usually, such emails would find their way into the junk folder. What is interesting is why it bothered Mercedes so much as to want to take action. Are they going to be parading with a big stick at all Mercedes criticisms on the internet? A fan with a very strong feeling about something is definitely not a nutter, l felt that was out of order from Toto. That said, this is not to encourage people to start sending emails about their ill-conceived notions of what is going on, to the teams. If one has a strong feeling about anything, that is why these forums exist. They should come on these forums and say what they think and let us have a debate about it. Certainly not writing to the team who have better things to do.

On the subject, there would always be suspicions in this very particular scenario where we have a driver leaving the team and the team having to manage their technical exposure to the leaving driver. The reduction of information on the new aspects of the car, would always translate into a loss of performance on track. They are clearly trying to find a way of managing the situation effectively but Hamilton would not escape suffering from the situation in some way. Obviously, the team has to protect their Intellectual Property and whatever is in their best interest in the future.

That said, the situation is very amusing. Especially the bit about getting the police involved.

Unfair treatment of one driver over another in a team is always going to be a destabilizing factor , so Toto is well right to be so upset about a stupid rumour .
Lewis , himself , should remember well the turmoil that rose after Dennis said "We are racing Fernando" .

A leaving driver will perhaps not get a full explanation of exactly how the team is working to solve his issues with the car , but the team unlikely to work any less hard to solve them .
They are still paying him to drive , so , not attending to his every wish makes no sense .

[Matthew]

Another below-par performance by Sergio Perez. Not sure how the Red Bull management is thinking after extending his contract.

[airshifter]

Another below-par performance by Sergio Perez. Not sure how the Red Bull management is thinking after extending his contract.

To some extent I understand teams not wanting a real challenge for their #1 driver, but they should at least be strong enough to pick up the pieces when the other driver gets it wrong. It's shameful seeing that car with the results Checo has been getting lately.



As for the race, at least there was some action, mostly due to strategy in the end.

George ended up with a draft most of the way down the straight with Lando and Max tripping on each other a little, and the sweep around the outside worked well. Lewis actually did well to only lose 1 spot at the start, both Ferrari's tried to mug him on the outside of turn one, but Lewis held on with enough speed to make the outside work for him into turn 2 and stayed ahead.

Though Lando had a poor start, George really kind of blew the chances for both of them when he was fighting Lando so hard in the first stint. That game took a lot out of both of their tires, and brought Lewis up close enough to attack George. George needs to calm down to avoid these kinds of mistakes in the future.... at least it was Lewis and not another car this time. Props to Lando and McLaren for trying a differing strategy to challenge Max, but it left them with having to pass more cars on track to get themselves back up to the 2nd position. He had pace, but Max had enough gap to keep him covered without having to fight too hard and make mistakes.

Max said during one of the post race interviews that had Lando kept him behind at the start it might have been Lando's race. Likewise Hamilton commented that he felt he could have stayed closer had he not got jumped at the start. And I think both are likely true.... the race could have gone several directions easily.

Not the race I was hoping for, but a decent race still.





And as for Toto.... once again I think he is well within his rights to involve the police. The rabid conspiracy theories will always take place on forums and such, but when they are emailed to people outside of the team and in some cases followed up with app messages it's over the top. And especially so when they are claiming it's sabotage to the point of risking the drivers life. Then again, the way the press reacted to the emailed Horner allegations, they could have been hoping for their moment of fame, knowing the press would eat it up.

I do think such fans are nutters. I know if someone publicly tried to claim I was intentionally jeopardizing another humans life I'd be less than pleased and would be trying to put an end to it as well.



ETA: I want to praise Carlos for his whining, he's really a great actor once he gets passed. They must teach this at Ferrari, as Charles did a bit of whining himself over being passed. But I do have to place some blame on the pit wall as well. Rather than tell Carlos to STFU and drives they played along as if he were the victim and Lewis punted him hard off the track. Wake up Carlos, you just got passed! :laugh:

[gm99]

If Ferrari screw up Lewis' races only half as much as they've screwed up Leclerc's races in the past couple of years, poor Fred Vasseur is going to be flooded with e-mails from 2025 on :D

[Nitrodaze]

Unfair treatment of one driver over another in a team is always going to be a destabilizing factor , so Toto is well right to be so upset about a stupid rumour .
Lewis , himself , should remember well the turmoil that rose after Dennis said "We are racing Fernando" .

A leaving driver will perhaps not get a full explanation of exactly how the team is working to solve his issues with the car , but the team unlikely to work any less hard to solve them .
They are still paying him to drive , so , not attending to his every wish makes no sense .

I think we should make a clear distinction here. Firstly, it is to say, it is out of order for anyone to be sending emails voicing their ill-conceived notions to the team. Secondly, it is quite normal for anyone to analyze both Mercedes driver's performances and make speculations based on past data and knowledge of each driver's performances to say what their thoughts are. We typically start out by saying we do not have first-hand information and knowledge of what is actually going on. But based on the little we know such and such is what we think.

This is the real purpose of these forums, for us to have active analysis and debate on these things. This is a very important part of following F1 as a fan of the sport and any particular team or driver each of us likes. What is not cool is to cast a shadow over anyone for expressing their thoughts. Well as long as they don't go off and start sending emails to the teams or anyone involved in the operation of the F1 activities of course.

We are talking of the only seven-time world champion actively racing in F1. And one of two still available to the fans and media. Everything about him is always going to be under the spotlight and deeply scrutinized by the fans, media, etc. So it is not surprising that emotions run high for some, that is not to say they are nutters.

That said, is Hamilton being sabotaged, l would say not after some thought on the matter. Is he likely suffering for choosing to leave the team; especially so early in the season, l would say that is inevitable for any driver leaving a team. Hence, we all do not expect to see his best performances this season for obvious freasons.

[N. Jones]

Is someone going to finally put Logan Sargent out of his misery?

[Bagwan]

Is someone going to finally put Logan Sargent out of his misery?

Yeah , it's getting kind of hard to watch , isn't it ?

[Nitrodaze]

If Ferrari screw up Lewis' races only half as much as they've screwed up Leclerc's races in the past couple of years, poor Fred Vasseur is going to be flooded with e-mails from 2025 on :D

That would be one to watch in 2026, the blend of the Tifosi and the 44 gang going at it would be very amusing, to say the least.

[airshifter]

I think we should make a clear distinction here. Firstly, it is to say, it is out of order for anyone to be sending emails voicing their ill-conceived notions to the team. Secondly, it is quite normal for anyone to analyze both Mercedes driver's performances and make speculations based on past data and knowledge of each driver's performances to say what their thoughts are. We typically start out by saying we do not have first-hand information and knowledge of what is actually going on. But based on the little we know such and such is what we think.

This is the real purpose of these forums, for us to have active analysis and debate on these things. This is a very important part of following F1 as a fan of the sport and any particular team or driver each of us likes. What is not cool is to cast a shadow over anyone for expressing their thoughts. Well as long as they don't go off and start sending emails to the teams or anyone involved in the operation of the F1 activities of course.

We are talking of the only seven-time world champion actively racing in F1. And one of two still available to the fans and media. Everything about him is always going to be under the spotlight and deeply scrutinized by the fans, media, etc. So it is not surprising that emotions run high for some, that is not to say they are nutters.

That said, is Hamilton being sabotaged, l would say not after some thought on the matter. Is he likely suffering for choosing to leave the team; especially so early in the season, l would say that is inevitable for any driver leaving a team. Hence, we all do not expect to see his best performances this season for obvious freasons.

Yet your opinion has changed quite a bit since Canada, where you seemed certain there was a conspiracy against Lewis by the team. And further implied that "we can all see it". Speaking for others is obviously casting a shadow on anyone not in line with your thinking, yet it was done.




Finally, Canada GP proves Mercedes has been messing with Hamilton's car setup. On a Hamilton track that he has won six times, it is very hard to believe he would not finish Q3 within at least 0ne tenths behind George if he was having a bad day. What ticks me off about it is the plain shameless lying about it. We can all see it. It also adds credence to the suspicions of the 2016 season. We all expected he would not be given the best parts or the privileged information since he is leaving the team. I fully expected his season to be what we are seeing at the moment. But lying about it is sapping credibility from Mercedes team and its management.

When all reality is cast aside, it's hard to take such opinions as valid and not reject them. Drivers and teams all have up and down days, weeks, seasons at times. George beat Lewis in Canada, it's really that simple. It doesn't require mental gymnastics to realize at some point almost every driver will be beaten by the other driver within their team.

I don't think it's cool to claim to know what others think, they are allowed to express that themselves. But part of any dialogue/discussion/debate is people backing up their views with evidence, so that others can take those views as more well informed. Without any evidence to support a view, it's just another opinion subject to being questions as is often the case.

[Nitrodaze]

Yet your opinion has changed quite a bit since Canada, where you seemed certain there was a conspiracy against Lewis by the team. And further implied that "we can all see it". Speaking for others is obviously casting a shadow on anyone not in line with your thinking, yet it was done.



When all reality is cast aside, it's hard to take such opinions as valid and not reject them. Drivers and teams all have up and down days, weeks, seasons at times. George beat Lewis in Canada, it's really that simple. It doesn't require mental gymnastics to realize at some point almost every driver will be beaten by the other driver within their team.

I don't think it's cool to claim to know what others think, they are allowed to express that themselves. But part of any dialogue/discussion/debate is people backing up their views with evidence, so that others can take those views as more well informed. Without any evidence to support a view, it's just another opinion subject to being questions as is often the case.

As usual, you miss the point by a country mile. The dialogue was not about whether or not Russell did or did not beat Hamilton. Nor was it about whether he is able to beat Hamilton. I personally see Russell as a future driver's world champion in the making.

The dialogue was simply about whether Hamilton was getting adequate support and information to allow him to produce his best possible performances.

Since you prefer to make jibes at the author rather than discuss the issue, please do not bother to respond as l shall not read your responses henceforth.

[Bagwan]

As usual, you miss the point by a country mile. The dialogue was not about whether or not Russell did or did not beat Hamilton. Nor was it about whether he is able to beat Hamilton. I personally see Russell as a future driver's world champion in the making.

The dialogue was simply about whether Hamilton was getting adequate support and information to allow him to produce his best possible performances.

Since you prefer to make jibes at the author rather than discuss the issue, please do not bother to respond as l shall not read your responses henceforth.

You are exhausting .

Thank-you to Shifter for saying what I felt like saying , but couldn't be bothered to say , though it had to be said .

[Bagwan]

That would be one to watch in 2026, the blend of the Tifosi and the 44 gang going at it would be very amusing, to say the least.

Is Lewis studying the Italian language ?
It's essential .

[airshifter]

As usual, you miss the point by a country mile. The dialogue was not about whether or not Russell did or did not beat Hamilton. Nor was it about whether he is able to beat Hamilton. I personally see Russell as a future driver's world champion in the making.

The dialogue was simply about whether Hamilton was getting adequate support and information to allow him to produce his best possible performances.

Since you prefer to make jibes at the author rather than discuss the issue, please do not bother to respond as l shall not read your responses henceforth.

Your post claimed that the "proof" that the team messed with Hamilton's car was simply that he didn't come within a tenth of George, direct comparison. And nobody missed that 2016 was brought up... the team is suspicious because Nico got the title.

Neither was a jibe, just pointing out reality. If you choose not to deal with the reality of what you posted then by all means run from the discussion rather than communicate more clearly.

Since Lewis has generally had better race pace, one could just as easily claim they are sabotaging George by setting his car up for qually rather than the race. The reality is that the drivers and their side of the pit wall makes the best educated decisions they can based on the conditions they expect, and as humans they can all sometimes get it wrong.