F1 Guru Adrian Newey leave Redbull

[Nitrodaze]

I think we saw this one coming, didn't we? Like it was for McLaren in their boardroom battle in 2009 onwards, that decimated the potential of the team, and the consequential departure of key staff. Redbull is playing out that same scenario. We watch in awe as this great team starts the process of imploding as it highlights the ever-increasing void that Dietrich Mateschitz has left behind.
As with McLaren, it started with one key figure departing and many others followed while they were still highly desired resources to other teams.

The burning question is where is Newey going to end up? I don't see him going to a customer team like Aston Martin, but anything is possible in F1. The only teams that l think would have the appeal to attract him are Ferrari, Mercedes, or Audi. Would Adrian be interested in a startup team? I think that would be a younger man's sort of project. Is Mercedes without Hamilton or a proven championship-winning driver going to be interesting to him, l wonder.

Mercedes might be a possibility if Verstappen is also going there. It is hard to see him going anywhere else other than Ferrari. That seems to be a perfect setup for a victory lap before bowing out of the F1 circus.

Check this out the stor here (https://medium.com/motor-racing/adrian-newey-in-aston-martin-green-d43ee899a823)

[Used to be Starter]

At 65 years old retirement is a very real option.

[Matthew]

At 65 years old retirement is a very real option.

He might be leaving Red Bull but he won't be leaving F1 anytime soon.

[Used to be Starter]

He might be leaving Red Bull but he won't be leaving F1 anytime soon.
I wouldn't put any money on that. His name is not Bernie. :p

[Nitrodaze]

I wouldn't put any money on that. His name is not Bernie. :p

You can't buy experience, one has to live it to attain it.
Newey has that particular know-how to make a championship-winning turnaround for any team. His worth even at 65 is immense. I think he has at least one more championship-winning car in him.

[Bagwan]

Aston Martin is my bet , as Newey will have a blank check , a Fernando Alonso , and a works Honda engine with which to play .

And , speaking of Fred , how do you suppose they enticed him to stay ?
Perhaps they offered him a Newey car .

It seems to make sense , doesn't it ?

[F1nKS]

It would be great to see him pull a big surprise and go somewhere like Williams, just to show how good he is.

[Used to be Starter]

You can't buy experience, one has to live it to attain it.
Newey has that particular know-how to make a championship-winning turnaround for any team. His worth even at 65 is immense. I think he has at least one more championship-winning car in him.
No question he would be worth a LOT to any team. I'm just saying that one of the very real options for him is to retire. I didn't say I thought he would do that, just that it is an option on the table. I think that it is just as likely as his going to another team - neither more nor less so.

[Nitrodaze]

Let's recap for a minute on Adrian Newey's achievements. He has won F1 championships with three teams, namely Williams, McLaren, and Redbull. Cumulating into 13 Constructors and/or drivers titles. Listed below are all the drivers and Newey cars that have won F1 titles:-

1992 Williams FW14 - Nigel Mansell
1993 Williams FW15C - Alain Prost
1996 Williams FW18 - Damon Hill
1997 Williams FW19 - Jacque Villeneuve
1998 - 1999 Mclaren MP4/13 - Mika Hakkinen
2010 - 2013 Redbull RB6/7/8/9 - Sebastian Vettel
2021 - 2023 Redbull RB17/18/19 - Max Verstappen
[The 2021 title remains questionable of course]

He is supremely the most successful car designer in F1 history. And that is saying something.

I think the real battleground for Newey's service would be between Ferrari, Mercedes, and Audi. Mercedes would be pressed to prevent such a talent from going anywhere else other than Mercedes. Unfortunately, they currently do not have the sort of driver that would appeal to Newey since they lost Hamilton to Ferrari. The same goes for Audi at this stage.

Ferrari seems the very obvious destination, as they have the iconic status and they have Seven Times World champion Lewis Hamilton in their car. And they have been the only team to win a race in this Redbull-dominated era. That said, the British connection of Aston Martin for whom he designed a road car recently may also be a possibility. Especially with Alonso in their car.

If you were Newey at 65 and close to retirement, would you not want to end this illustrious journey with another World Championship win with a fourth team? Hence, it would come down to the team with the right facilities and resources. With an obvious chance of winning. With a car with a design on the right trajectory. More importantly, with a driver or pair of drivers capable of winning the driver's and constructors' championship.

Ferrari ticks all of those boxes. Then again so do Aston Martin and Mclaren for that matter. A move of Verstappen to Mercedes may just supersede all of the above. But Mercedes does not have the car to entice Verstappen from a highly successful Redbull. It would take Mercedes landing an Adrian Newey deal for Verstappen to be enticed. As it is the other way around. Hence Mercedes would need to grab them both together to be able to prevent Ferrari from grabbing Newey.

This one would be entertaining to watch over the next few weeks.

[Nitrodaze]

IT IS CONFIRMED!!!

ADRIAN NEWEY IS ACTUALLY LEAVING REDBULL

Focus is now on Redbull to see how they hold up with a vacuum in their design team. Will Verstappen. be on the move as well?

Apparently, Newey can join a new team in 2025, which means he would be in the design room tracing the car for 2026 in a new team. The question now is which lucky team would he be joining? It would be mega if he partners up with Hamilton at Ferrari as it would be if he joins Alonso. Two iconic F1 racing drivers.

Is it a tail spin downwards for Redbull from now on? I remember McLaren in a similar position did put on a brave face and shrugged off any concern when Hamilton left as did a few key personnel to Mercedes. In the end, they drifted backward into the midfield where they have been since. Can Redbull keep it together?

Miami is probably the last time we will see Newey on the Redbull pitwall and probably in Redbull blues.

[airshifter]

Having just polished up my crystal ball, I'm quite sure that Adrian will........



Go to Haas for free, and with his talents bring the WCC to the team and WDC home for Nico Hulkenberg. Seeking a true challenge, Adrian gives up his proposed salary so that they can buy the Hulk out from his Audi contract, and once done they announce Adrian coming on board with the team. Adrian then sails off into the sunset, having taken a driver incapable of a podium during his career and turning him into a dominating WDC victor.

Despite his usual modest nature and old school habits, he starts taking notes with an iPad, and trash talks all other teams and drivers throughout the season, yelling things such as "Show me what you've got chumps!" Reliable sources within the media report that his large Haas drink container is usually filled with mostly various alcoholic drinks, though there is speculation as to what types. As for the team, all people other than Gene Haas are removed, and the bottom of the barrel employees hired in. Gene Haas reported that Adrian had clearly stated that given a couple hundred monkeys, he would build a championship winning car. He then put that in writing in a contract with Gene, and all of his financial wealth and worldly possessions would be at stake if he did not achieve his stated goal.






Seriously, until Newey states what he plans to do, we can speculate all day. With his talent no doubt teams will toss money at him, but we have no idea what his intentions or motivations might be. He might stay in the sport or other motorsports in some capacity, or he might just really sail off into the sunset as in his new sailboat, since he had stated a desire to sail around the world in it.

With the new regs coming into the picture it would seem to me that hoping to build a dominant car out of the gate would be a reach even for someone as talented as he is, so more than likely any hopes of more titles and such would imply a longer term if he does stay in the game. Or he could bow out having once again proven he is capable of producing a dominant car, as he has done the last few years with RB. Not that he has to prove much of anything anyway, he will remain legendary regardless of his path.




But you heard it here first. Hass will be given a car so dominant that Hulk will be the first 8x WDC. :laugh:

[gm99]

Let's recap for a minute on Adrian Newey's achievements. He has won F1 championships with three teams, namely Williams, McLaren, and Redbull. Cumulating into 13 Constructors and/or drivers titles. Listed below are all the drivers and Newey cars that have won F1 titles:-

1992 Williams FW14 - Nigel Mansell
1993 Williams FW15C - Alan Prost
1996 Williams FW18 - Damon Hill
1997 Williams FW19 - Jacque Villenueve
1998 - 1999 Mclaren MP4/13 - Mika Hakkennen
2010 - 2013 Redbull RB6/7/8/9 - Sebastien Vettel
2021 - 2023 Redbull RB17/18/19 - Max Verstappen
[The 2021 title remains questionable of course]


All of Newey's achievements wane of course comparing to your achievement of spelling 4 out of 7 world champions' names wrong ;)

What is interesting is that with the exception of Prost, all other drivers have achieved their first championship in a Newey-designed car. So he usually went where he saw the biggest unrealized potential, not necessarily where the major drivers were. This could speak against Ferrari.

Also, the list shows that having Newey does not automatically and instantly produce a world championship for a team. He didn't design a champion-winning car in all of the 2000s and then had another dry spell at Red Bull in the second half of the 2010s.

[Nitrodaze]

All of Newey's achievements wane of course comparing to your achievement of spelling 4 out of 7 world champions' names wrong ;)

:-)
Well spotted, corrected now. That's what happens when one rushes to put stuff out l suppose.

Fair point also about Newey making promising drivers World Champions. This time around, his motivation would be tempered with the desire to finish on a high. Making another team constructor's world champion would scratch that itch. It probably would need to be the sort of team that would make his name immortalized in F1 history. And it doesn't come bigger than Ferrari.

I personally would like him to go back to Williams and make them world champions once more. But l doubt that, they were horrible to him when he left Williams.

[Nitrodaze]

Also, the list shows that having Newey does not automatically and instantly produce a world championship for a team. He didn't design a champion-winning car in all of the 2000s and then had another dry spell at Red Bull in the second half of the 2010s.

On the contrary; every team Newey left, went off a cliff soon after, and never recovered. From Williams to McLaren, it would be interesting to see if Redbull can survive him.

[Bagwan]

Marko is out saying that he'll be wearing green .
He must have seen my post .

[airshifter]

Despite claims of Ferrari trying to snatch him up, Pierre Wache is now contracted to Red Bull through 2028. Safe to say he's not going to jump ship and follow Newey if he just signed a new contract.



As for Newey, until it's heard from his mouth none of us know. As it stands it looks like he will be involved with 4 WDC titles on the trot, equal to what Lewis got with Merc. If they manage to stay strong next year, 5 in a row would equal what Schumacher did at Ferrari.

I think it's safe to say that he will be a legend regardless of what he chooses to do. He doesn't need to add anything to his resume to stand out.

[gm99]

On the contrary; every team Newey left, went off a cliff soon after, and never recovered. From Williams to McLaren, it would be interesting to see if Redbull can survive him.

Leyton House even went bust after Newey left ;)
McLaren did at least win a championship post-Newey (Hamilton in 2008).
Williams' problem was losing both Newey and their works engine at the same time, something that Red Bull faces as well.

[Nitrodaze]

Leyton House even went bust after Newey left ;)
McLaren did at least win a championship post-Newey (Hamilton in 2008).
Williams' problem was losing both Newey and their works engine at the same time, something that Red Bull faces as well.

The chassis that Hamilton won with was based on the Newey design that won Hakkinen his titles. Mclaren went down the tubes after the major rules change of 2009 when Mclaren had to produce a new chassis other than the Newey one. Brawn cracked it and took the 2009 title with Button, which set the stage for the Redbull run of wins.

[F1nKS]

It would be great to see him pull a big surprise and go somewhere like Williams, just to show how good he is.

'The talks are still at an early stage, but are we in talks? Yes,'' team boss James Vowles revealed in Miami. ''I've known Adrian for a while and I spoke to him on Friday. I am also pretty sure I will have another conversation with him soon. He is an icon of the sport, there is no doubt about that.''

[gm99]

The chassis that Hamilton won with was based on the Newey design that won Hakkinen his titles. Mclaren went down the tubes after the major rules change of 2009 when Mclaren had to produce a new chassis other than the Newey one. Brawn cracked it and took the 2009 title with Button, which set the stage for the Redbull run of wins.

I have my doubts that the MP 4/23 of 2008, designed by Tim Goss and Simon Lacey, was really based on a design Newey had made ten years earlier for the MP 4/13, especially considering there had been quite a few changes of the regulations in the intervening years (including a reduction the size of the rear diffusor in 2005).

[Nitrodaze]

I have my doubts that the MP 4/23 of 2008, designed by Tim Goss and Simon Lacey, was really based on a design Newey had made ten years earlier for the MP 4/13, especially considering there had been quite a few changes of the regulations in the intervening years (including a reduction the size of the rear diffusor in 2005).

I think you would find that there were no major rule changes to the chassis over those ten years. Only tweaks to targeted sections of the chassis such as rear wings on one occasion then front wings on another occasion. The basic chassis architecture was more or less constant over those ten years. Read below a summary of the chassis rules over the period in question.

Technical regulations (chassis) (https://www.f1technical.net/articles/27) All of the information below is Courtesy F1 Technical.net

1997
FIA Accident Data Recorder obligatory on all cars (ADR).
Energy absorbing structure on gearbox imposed, with rear impact test.
Energy absorption of steering wheel, column and rack must be shown by impact test.
Bodywork rules to exclude rear "winglets" and midship wings.
Suspension must be designed to prevent contact of a front wheel with the driver's head in an accident and to provide 120° articulation of the forward lower arms, front and rear, to help retain the wheels.

1998
Overall width reduced from 2m to 1.8m; grooved tyres made obligatory, to reduce cornering speeds.
Single fuel bladder mandatory. Refuelling connector must be covered.
Cockpit dimensions increased; side headrests extended to steering wheel.
Mirror size increased, 5cmx10cm to 5x12.
Front roll hoop test introduced; survival cell dimensions forward of dash increased; side impact test speed increased (nearly 100% more energy), site moved forward 200mm.

1999
Engine oil breathers to vent into the engine air intake.
A cable must tether each wheel to the chassis to prevent it flying off or contacting the driver's head, in case of accident.
A seat which can be extracted with the driver in it in case of injury is mandatory.
Use of beryllium alloys in the chassis is prohibited. Frontal impact test: speed and maximum permitted average deceleration increased (from 12 to 13m/s and 25 to 40g).
Distance of the driver's helmet below a line between the roll hoops increased (from 50 to 70mm).
Rear and lateral headrests to be 1-piece, with standard quick-release method. Asymmetric braking prohibited.
The FIA Accident Data Recorder must also be in operation in private testing.

2002
Power assisted steering systems must be controlled mechanically - no electronic control is allowed. This is the final step to the changes introduced in Barcelona 2001 - changes to avoid the necessity to carry out software inspections following a race;
The rear crash structure is subjected to a substantial side load - the same principal as the front crash structure;
Wheel tethers are stronger;
Mirrors are larger;
The rear light is larger.

2004
Minimum size set of rear wing end plates and engine cover to allow more sponsor space;
Launch control forbidden;
Full-automatic gearboxes forbidden.

2005
Reduction of diffuser size to reduce cornering speeds

2007
Obligatory rear wing gap spacer to prevent flexing;
Increased strenght requirements for rear crash structure

2008
The FIA provides a standard and equal ECU to all teams which must be used in the cars to monitor and control all electronic systems;
Traction control banned

2009
Front wing: max. width increased to 180mm, minimum height reduced to 75mm, middle section of 250mm design specified by FIA;
Allowance of movable front wing flap adjuster. Maximum 6degrees of adjustement, fully uperated by the driver from his steering wheel; Diffuser max height reduced to 200mm;
Winglets and aerodynamic additions on sidepods banned;
Driver-operated moveable aerodynamics allowed in front wing. Limited to 2 adjustements per lap, max 6° change in angle of attack.

[Nitrodaze]

There is a rumour that the Ferrari-Newey deal is done and dusted.

[F1nKS]

There is a rumour that the Ferrari-Newey deal is done and dusted.

Idk, the stuff I read is the exact opposite. Ferrari is out of the running.

[airshifter]

Based on all the click bait articles, he could be doing anything, anywhere, at any time!


When I find quotes from Newey himself, they are much less indicative of anything other than a break, though he doesn't rule out that me might be back in the game again at some point. He really leaves little indication of how long any break might be, or how he will be back involved with things.

[Bagwan]

He wants to slow down , so designing dirigibles is still on the table .



With a resume like Newey's , what is clear is that no team wants to have him as an opponent , thus the final offers for his services will be eye watering .

I'm not sure , though , if any of the teams could match the weight of money floating around in the big airship world .

[Bagwan]

So , it's looking like Newey may be signing on at AM this coming week , letting out the world's worst kept secret .
Fred just took delivery of his Valkyrie , so he can pick him up at the airport .

Tuesday is the rumoured announcement day .

[airshifter]

If the latest rumors are true hopefully Fernando will pick a more reliable car pick up Adrian in.

https://www.thesupercarblog.com/fernando-alonsos-aston-martin-valkyrie-breaks-down-in-monaco/

There was also other articles that indicated surprisingly that Fernando paid full price for the car and was not offered a discount.

One thing for sure though, speculation will remain through the roof until we know for sure where Adrian goes if he in fact does go straight to another team.

[airshifter]

Well it looks like I got punked by a bad scoop article. Apparently according to Fernando, the AM tech and flatbed were just to drop his car off to him. :laugh:


But it remains to be seen if Newey is on board.

[Nitrodaze]

Hints from Eddy Jordan's podcast suggest Newey is heading to Aston Martin. Sky reported that Newey had a factory visit to Aston a few weeks ago.
It seems Newey is cashing out. It is all about the money apparently which is disappointing but then why not. If Aston is where he ends up, then a third driver's title is on the cards for Alonso. There is also the possibility of a Lance Stroll driver's title.
It remains to be seen if Newey can produce another championship-winning car at the late stage of his career. especially in an era where everything is about CFD. Something that you cannot represent on a drawing board.

One thing is clear, if Newey ends up at Aston, then it is all about the money and nothing else really.

[Nitrodaze]

It is confirmed today 10th Sept 2024, F1 designer guru officially joins Aston Martin. This is quite a coup that Lawrence Stroll has pulled here. With Newey at Aston, Honda would be keen for Verstappen who is Honda's most successful driver's champion in recent time, to join Aston. As would Aston as well l am guessing.

I was initially thinking this was a chance for Alonso to achieve that elusive 3rd World Title. In fear, the politics going forward may seek to replace him with a younger talent capable of winning multiple championships. The obvious target would be Verstappen, but l think they may also look to poach one of the McLaren drivers, most likely, Piastri.

McLaren now looks like the ideal team to be with, if you want to win a world title in the near future. It certainly would do wonders for marketing of this British luxury car brand.

Check out details here (https://medium.com/motor-racing/adrian-newey-in-aston-martin-green-d43ee899a823)

[Zico]

It seems Newey is cashing out. It is all about the money apparently which is disappointing but then why not...

...One thing is clear, if Newey ends up at Aston, then it is all about the money and nothing else really.


You think Ferrari couldn't have matched AM's offer? What makes you so sure it's all about money anyway? I'm not convinced it was that..
Newey is already a multi millionaire... plus there are many other potential reasons why he chose AM.

From Equippe..

"There were discussions [with Newey],” Ferrari boss Frederic Vasseur confirmed in an interview with L’Equipe. “He probably had a different idea of ​​what I thought for him. Maybe we will find common ground one day. It is not an individual that changes the outcome of a team, the group is always stronger than the individual.”

Reports are that Newey and Ferrari struggled to agree on his role with the new team."

Staying 'home' in the UK could also have been a factor.

[Bagwan]

Hints from Eddy Jordan's podcast suggest Newey is heading to Aston Martin. Sky reported that Newey had a factory visit to Aston a few weeks ago.
It seems Newey is cashing out. It is all about the money apparently which is disappointing but then why not. If Aston is where he ends up, then a third driver's title is on the cards for Alonso. There is also the possibility of a Lance Stroll driver's title.
It remains to be seen if Newey can produce another championship-winning car at the late stage of his career. especially in an era where everything is about CFD. Something that you cannot represent on a drawing board.

One thing is clear, if Newey ends up at Aston, then it is all about the money and nothing else really.

What really would be the issue with going to AM even if it was only about the money ?

Are you just disappointed that he didn't follow Lewis to Ferrari ?

[Nitrodaze]

What really would be the issue with going to AM even if it was only about the money ?

Are you just disappointed that he didn't follow Lewis to Ferrari ?

Steady buddy. That comment was made before the announcement where the package was revealed. AM making Newey a partner changes the complexion of the move to AM. So hold your horses before you shoot me down.

[Bagwan]

Steady buddy. That comment was made before the announcement where the package was revealed. AM making Newey a partner changes the complexion of the move to AM. So hold your horses before you shoot me down.

Oh , come on .

It's ok to admit it .
You're just a little disappointed , right ?

And , who was shooting you down ?

And , come to think of it , what difference to the situation do shares and partnership make ?
According to Adrian , it was more the "old school" idea of a team owner being a guy , rather than a major car maker .
It sounded more like he pines for the days working with Frank and such guys , where they were the "David" beating up on the "Goliaths" of the day .

[Nitrodaze]

Oh , come on .

It's ok to admit it .
You're just a little disappointed , right ?

And , who was shooting you down ?

And , come to think of it , what difference to the situation do shares and partnership make ?
According to Adrian , it was more the "old school" idea of a team owner being a guy , rather than a major car maker .
It sounded more like he pines for the days working with Frank and such guys , where they were the "David" beating up on the "Goliaths" of the day .

Not really. I am happy for Aston Martin. I am quite a fan of Lawrence Stroll. I like what he is doing to make Aston Martin a proper championship contender in the near future. With respect to the Ferrari move, Ferrari has built Newey-beating cars in the past, they can do it again. The same can be said for Mercedes. It would have been a fairytale partnership if Newey and Ferrari finally had joined forces. You would be seriously underestimating all the aerodynamicists in the F1 paddock, if you assumed they would be no contest to Aston Martin and Newey in the future.

Besides, Aston Martin still need to make the most of Newey's knowledge and wisdom effectively to have half a chance of beating Ferrari, Mercedes, Redbull, and McLaren. It is not going to be a walk in the park, l assure you.

So to answer your question, No disappointment here buddy, just excitement about the move. Read this article for details (https://medium.com/motor-racing/adrian-newey-in-aston-martin-green-d43ee899a823)

[Steve Boyd]

Besides, Aston Martin still need to make the most of Newey's knowledge and wisdom effectively to have half a chance of beating Ferrari, Mercedes, Redbull, and McLaren. It is not going to be a walk in the park, l assure you.That's true and I think that Aston having a new wind tunnel is significant. We've heard a few times over the last couple of seasons about wind tunnel results not correlating with track performance. Newey's aero expertise could well prove to be very important in getting the new wind tunnel commissioned, instrumented and callibrated to give reliable results.

I wonder if that was one of the driving factors in getting his signature.

[airshifter]

No doubt the facilities coming on line at AM will be a huge help, but to be honest it's still going to be tough for Newey. With a season of big change being the first one he will have much influence on, it's likely that the new regs would present some challenges that are tough for even a person of his caliber.

Moving aero will be interesting to say the least.

As a side, though he could and might have influence on the 2025 car, it seems major changes could eat a lot of budget quickly. And I suspect they won't want to tax him too much in 2025 since the real hope is probably more that he can influence the 2026 car from the early days of development.