WRC Calendar 2025

[Eli]

Thought that with all the announcements we'll might as well have a thread for it, so for starters, here's what we have so far, courtesy of dirtfish: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-the-wrc-2025-calendar-so-far/

[Tauri_J]

Weird that no mention of Estonia for 2025 in dirtfish article.

It was announced like in november that its on the calendar for 25.

[EstWRC]

Weird that no mention of Estonia for 2025 in dirtfish article.

It was announced like in november that its on the calendar for 25.

it was, by Mr.Aava himself but since that its been really quiet, so im not that sure actually if it will be in the calendar

[Eli]

Weird that no mention of Estonia for 2025 in dirtfish article.

It was announced like in November that its on the calendar for 25.

Well they did mention Latvia was for this year only:"Latvia is in a near-identical situation to Poland: it has also been elevated from the ERC after a long stint at continental level, where it was known as Rally Liepāja, and was announced as an addition to the WRC calendar only for 2024. But that’s as far as its WRC stay is locked in for as it stands." so it's only reasonable Estonia will comeback in 2025.

[Tauri_J]

it was, by Mr.Aava himself but since that its been really quiet, so im not that sure actually if it will be in the calendar

Well its like 1 and half years away and before that they have ERC. So no need for major announcements/advertising etc before 24' edition is concluded

[Eli]

I just realized the Central European Rally hasn't got a contract for next year, does this mean we'll get to see Rallye Deutschland back in the calendar? or do they not have the funds to run it by themselves like they did for 17 years?

[WRCStan]

does this mean we'll get to see Rallye Deutschland back in the calendar?

I guess no. Is there any positive news or optimism about Germany is general?

[Backa]

I just realized the Central European Rally hasn't got a contract for next year, does this mean we'll get to see Rallye Deutschland back in the calendar? or do they not have the funds to run it by themselves like they did for 17 years?

I follow news about calendar rather regularly and didn't see anything about potential of Rally Deutschland coming back. If Central Europe will lose spot in calendar, Ireland seems to be most realistic replacement.

[deephouse]

Funny how only asphalt events are always hanging on thread. But when it comes to random european gravel events, it's not a problem at all. I think that China should be on calendar as soon as possible. Their rising in automotive industry could be crucial. Or Malaysia (that could bring interest of maybe Proton). No they are rather focusing on USA (americans doesn't really care about this sport) and Saudi. Stupid money.

[WRCStan]

Funny how only asphalt events are always hanging on thread. But when it comes to random european gravel events, it's not a problem at all. I think that China should be on calendar as soon as possible. Their rising in automotive industry could be crucial. Or Malaysia (that could bring interest of maybe Proton). No they are rather focusing on USA (americans doesn't really care about this sport) and Saudi. Stupid money.

Maybe you're not paying enough attention to the rallying scene in the US. Similar things were said about F1 20 years ago, now they can't get enough of it.

[focus206]

Maybe you're not paying enough attention to the rallying scene in the US. Similar things were said about F1 20 years ago, now they can't get enough of it.

What's special about this? You can find bigger and better entry lists in tiny European countries. The typical American rally entry list is usually dominated by old Imprezas from the 90's.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/85808-snodrift-rally-2024/

[WRCStan]

What's special about this? You can find bigger and better entry lists in tiny European countries. The typical American rally entry list is usually dominated by old Imprezas from the 90's.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/85808-snodrift-rally-2024/

Show me the Chinese entry lists then we'll have the conversation.

[focus206]

Show me the Chinese entry lists then we'll have the conversation.

I wasn't the one who proposed China, but here you go. Looks marginally better and definitely bigger I'd say. And this is their second rally after 2 or 3 years of stoppage because of covid.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/80997-china-rally-longyou-2023/

[WRCStan]

I wasn't the one who proposed China, but here you go. Looks marginally better and definitely bigger I'd say. And this is their second rally after 2 or 3 years of stoppage because of covid.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/80997-china-rally-longyou-2023/

If you overlook the national/regional thing you can add another 23 to the Snodrift numbers = 43, versus 57 on snow in WRC Sweden, it's not bad. 100 Acre wood last week was 58. Olympus and Oregon get 70 odd, which is more likely comparable in stature to that FIA APRC round, which BTW, is also full of 90s cars.

But this is a pointless numberwang game. Safari this weekend proves you don't need a packed local entry list to get the WRC there. USA has a team organising an event and is talking with the promotor and FIA. That's what matters. Grassroots motorsport such as sprints are popular there, no point comparing it with Europe, and it's a popular WRC subscriber market. You cannot say nobody is interested in rally there - base point.

I don't know about the Chinese scene, but I will bet though that Chinese manufacturers would want an electric series for the global stage, but by the time that happens the tariffs and trade (cold) wars will have killed any slim chance.

[Backa]

Funny how only asphalt events are always hanging on thread. But when it comes to random european gravel events, it's not a problem at all. I think that China should be on calendar as soon as possible. Their rising in automotive industry could be crucial. Or Malaysia (that could bring interest of maybe Proton). No they are rather focusing on USA (americans doesn't really care about this sport) and Saudi. Stupid money.

Wales lost spot similar way to Corsica and Deutschland and Poland/Latvia/Estonia are cannibalizing each other.

I don't think having local WRC rally will significantly spike up interest in both China and USA. Even in F1 Netflix series was bigger difference maker than race in Austin itself. It makes more sense for me to build interest in Mexico or Argentina than trying to be noticed in crowded US sports market. There were also few attempts to conquer China and it always failed.

[Eli]

Wales lost spot similar way to Corsica and Deutschland and Poland/Latvia/Estonia are cannibalizing each other.

I don't think having local WRC rally will significantly spike up interest in both China and USA. Even in F1 Netflix series was bigger difference maker than race in Austin itself. It makes more sense for me to build interest in Mexico or Argentina than trying to be noticed in crowded US sports market. There were also few attempts to conquer China and it always failed.

Does France still run an event in Corsica? And I’m aware Wales have the new asphalt rally but is the event from 2019 dead at this point? Deutschland’s rallye is as good as dead as well? But each have their reasons for not being run at this point in time.
China might be a dead end, but a rally in the US, I hope we’ll get to see, and then we’ll have better understanding of it’s impact on american rallying and interest in the WRC in the states.

[J4MIE]

The Rally GB event doesn’t run anymore. The was always other events using the forests at different times anyway.

[typhoon]

Wales lost spot similar way to Corsica and Deutschland and Poland/Latvia/Estonia are cannibalizing each other.

I don't think having local WRC rally will significantly spike up interest in both China and USA. Even in F1 Netflix series was bigger difference maker than race in Austin itself. It makes more sense for me to build interest in Mexico or Argentina than trying to be noticed in crowded US sports market. There were also few attempts to conquer China and it always failed.

I'm sorry for being that honest, but entries etc are not key factor for hosting a WRC event. The 1 Million euros WRC calendar fee does. All the rest is just chit-chat.

As for the USA event, let's keep in mind Americans wants "extreme" and epic events. I can see it would work very well and if Ford will keep being involved (hopefully more extensively than it is now) that would work brilliantly.

[focus206]

I'm sorry for being that honest, but entries etc are not key factor for hosting a WRC event. The 1 Million euros WRC calendar fee does. All the rest is just chit-chat.

Everyone knows that. But that won't stop us from talking about how Saudi Arabia, a country with no rallies, doesn't deserve a spot on the calendar. Otherwise one just smiles and accepts silently anything they shovel at this sport.


As for the USA event, let's keep in mind Americans wants "extreme" and epic events. I can see it would work very well and if Ford will keep being involved (hopefully more extensively than it is now) that would work brilliantly.

Was the WRC Olympus Rally in the 80's extreme and epic? Is any of their national event even on par with random European national rallies? Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

[WRCStan]

Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

I agree through tv, but I wouldn't say that stood here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bldWv4fbnaY

[Backa]

Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

Depends what you're looking for. For people thirsty for wheel-to-wheel action and seeing as much event as possible when attending live, rally would be one of most boring motorsports to follow.

[typhoon]

Was the WRC Olympus Rally in the 80's extreme and epic? Is any of their national event even on par with random European national rallies? Hell, even their beloved NASCAR is the most boring motorsport I can think of and the opposite of what I would imagine when hearing "extreme" and "epic".

You can't compare how a WRC rally was organized and arranged in the 80s and today. Look at Australia with the "jumps arena" in Bannister North, or the "purposely-built" Monte Lerno. In the USA they'll do a great job on this side, other than being super entertaining all around (service, fan areas, etc).

At NASCAR events you can play all day and never get bored, they worked hard on making interesting also on TV in recent years, with real-time distance, animations, etc.

It's gonna be held hopefully in 2026 and by then they'll be able to put up an epic spectacle.

I'd pay good money for a superspecial in Atlanta Mercedes stadium...

[deephouse]

Guys what about that idea. It's only thought, so no need to kill me instantly. What about if there were linked ralies. I mean, two on same continents or at least logisticaly most close. Way shorter, close on dates, maybe two week separation. Paraguay+Argentina, USA+Mexico, Finland+Sweden, New Zealand+Japan, Kenya+Saudi Arabia, Croatia+Italy and so on... That way they could include one or two more on calendar since there is so much interest of joining but not enough places.

[masa90]

In theory ok, but if the events are really close in time and location -> surely they will eat from each other a bit?

Atleast that is what few Estonians said in 22 Secto Rally. That they think rally Estonia suffers from being so close to Finland. People will choose either.

[deephouse]

In theory ok, but if the events are really close in time and location -> surely they will eat from each other a bit?

Atleast that is what few Estonians said in 22 Secto Rally. That they think rally Estonia suffers from being so close to Finland. People will choose either.

If rally Estonia would be completely different characterics of Finland, they would have plenty of visit. Why then Sweden and Finland don't clash being so close to each other? Or Spain (when there was on calendar) with Portugal, Italy with Croatia. They simply don't bring something different to the viewers. Finland will never be replaced, it's the mecca for rallying.

[masa90]

Yeah but Sweden is in February and Finland in august.

[Backa]

Guys what about that idea. It's only thought, so no need to kill me instantly. What about if there were linked ralies. I mean, two on same continents or at least logisticaly most close. Way shorter, close on dates, maybe two week separation. Paraguay+Argentina, USA+Mexico, Finland+Sweden, New Zealand+Japan, Kenya+Saudi Arabia, Croatia+Italy and so on... That way they could include one or two more on calendar since there is so much interest of joining but not enough places.

Similar approach exists to some extent, Poland-Latvia-Finland this year, Sardegna-Cyprus-Greece-Turkey in 2000s. It's good for teams logistics, but for hosts having another WRC rally two weeks earlier or later hurts their attendance and profitability. I guess for Finns, Estonians, Latvians and Poles it can be okayish due to solid rally fanbases there but in other places in the world it could be too costly for organizers to accept.

Anyway, I doubt there is any interests to grow calendar to more than 14 spots. Maybe if there will be some unexpected popularity boom, then we will see it but for now, even 14 rounds calendar can't materialize despite some attempts in last decade.

[AndyRAC]

14 rounds is asking for trouble. The sport can't sustain it; with only 2.5 Manufacturer teams in the top class even 12 is the absolute limit. The WEC doesn't have that many rounds, and they've got plenty of manufacturer teams.

[rallyfiend]

Teams are in WEC for Le Mans, not for WEC.

That’s why WEC can’t sustain more rounds. Few people care about the other rounds.

Maybe Spa…..

[Backa]

WEC has different characteristics, they want lower classes teams to be present on all rounds while WRC is fine with WRC2 drivers usually take part in only 7 rounds.

WRC survived even seasons like 2009-2011 and 2021 with 12-13 rounds so 14 doesn't seem unsustainable. It also depends how many rounds will be European, travelling outside Europe increase costs.

[Eli]

WEC has different characteristics, they want lower classes teams to be present on all rounds while WRC is fine with WRC2 drivers usually take part in only 7 rounds.

WRC survived even seasons like 2009-2011 and 2021 with 12-13 rounds so 14 doesn't seem unsustainable. It also depends how many rounds will be European, traveling outside Europe increase costs.

The nice thing about those seasons (2009-2011) was we got some new/old rallies back, and I am glad we got some new events in 2021, but I really do hope that for the sake of variety we'll get new/old events back next year (excluding Saudi Arabia, no offense, although I'm sure as a rally it would be a challenge).

[AndyRAC]

WEC has different characteristics, they want lower classes teams to be present on all rounds while WRC is fine with WRC2 drivers usually take part in only 7 rounds.

WRC survived even seasons like 2009-2011 and 2021 with 12-13 rounds so 14 doesn't seem unsustainable. It also depends how many rounds will be European, travelling outside Europe increase costs.

You're a newcomer on here - and pretty clueless. 14 rounds currently is unsustainable.......Those in charge of the WRC are deluded thinking that many rounds can work with so few world teams.

[Backa]

You're a newcomer on here - and pretty clueless. 14 rounds currently is unsustainable.......Those in charge of the WRC are deluded thinking that many rounds can work with so few world teams.

"WRC Promoter had been working towards a 14-event schedule for 2024, but event director Simon Larkin has cited the need to bring more Rally1 cars into the championship as the reason for sticking with 13.

“Our plan is to stay with 13, and the reason to stay with 13 is that we believe it’s in the best interest of the championship that we, together with the manufacturers, are taking the best steps to increase the number of cars in the P1 (Priority 1 – manufacturer drivers) field,” Larkin told DirtFish."

So 14 could be doable, especially if 14th round would be in Europe but they consider 13 better for now.

Those in charge of WRC put ~13 round calendar for decades and sustain it even after 2008 crisis so calling 12 "absolute limit" and comparisions to much different WEC series are actually clueless.

[saco0o]

doubt. in f1 you have 34 cities fighting for a place on the 23 race calendar for 2025-26-27. is the same in wrc, with countries "fighting to join the calendar" or is it more like in rallycross, where they were going to dubai, south africa, hong kong because the traditional places were not seeing the value (and ticket sell) in the sport anymore? i understand paraguay may join because argentina will not have government money anymore. chile is also low on cash. not sure why estonia left wrc but i imagine is because of not having enough $ too. what is the situation in wrc? more like f1 (event promoters see value) or rallycross (event promoters dont see value so the series goes after saudi/chinese money)?

[becher]

You're a newcomer on here - and pretty clueless. 14 rounds currently is unsustainable.......Those in charge of the WRC are deluded thinking that many rounds can work with so few world teams.

Him being new to the forum has nothing to do with the topic.

[Eli]

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-project-in-serious-trouble-time-is-running-out/

To no surprise to anyone.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-project-in-serious-trouble-time-is-running-out/

To no surprise to anyone.

Motorsport Ireland statement released today confirming that Ireland is no longer being considered to host a round of the FIA World Rally Championship in 2025. :(

Basically not enough time for the economic assessment to be done in order to provide the funding. :(

https://www.motorsportireland.com/Public/MI_News/2024/2025-WRC-Statement.aspx

[AndyRAC]

Public money for motorsport is a hard sell in some countries.......I've already seen the predictable comments from angry fans; however, do they know how much the hosting fee is? I'd guess they don't......

[J4MIE]

Public money for motorsport is a hard sell in some countries.......I've already seen the predictable comments from angry fans; however, do they know how much the hosting fee is? I'd guess they don't......

They’re probably the same ones that believe the insanely high economic impact claims…. and blaming the government for wanting a long time to check it all in much more detail.
Same people that have no clue about politics then complain about politicians.

[Jewy46]

Public money for motorsport is a hard sell in some countries.......I've already seen the predictable comments from angry fans; however, do they know how much the hosting fee is? I'd guess they don't......

15 million for the 3 years is what was required

[AndyRAC]

So, 5 million per year.......Those angry fans need to direct their anger at the WRC Promoter..... The WRC isn't worth getting for that kind of money.....

[pedro16]

So, 5 million per year.......Those angry fans need to direct their anger at the WRC Promoter..... The WRC isn't worth getting for that kind of money.....

I believe the fee is only a part of that amount. It costs money to organize an event of this dimension, and sponsorships don't cover everything.

[Eli]

Disappointed but not surprised, I hope CER will at least get to retain its slot.

[satnav]

The amount requested by MI from the Irish government was 5 million Euro for each of the 3 years 15 Million in total, when you read the whole statement you can see that the Government were not really interested in backing a motorsport event, and when you think back to Bobby Willis's try to have Rally NI, the UK Government was asked for 2 Million Pounds at that time and side stepped the request both times.
Not surprised at all, i'd have been more surprised if the money would have been made available..

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ireland-still-in-contention-for-wrc-2026-slot/

They will try again for 2026, but tbh this part caught my interest: "Paraguay is known to be one of the countries vying for one of those slots, though DirtFish understands its odds of making the calendar as soon as 2025 are also in question. Saudi Arabia is believed to be another event hoping to step up to next year’s WRC calendar." & Specifically about Paraguay. At the moment it seems only the Canary Islands & Saudi Arabia will be the new additions for next year.

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ireland-needs-a-plan-b-for-its-wrc-bid/

Some nice insight on how difficult it is to get funding for a WRC event .

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2025-calendar-puzzle-is-falling-into-place/

Like it’s been discussed here before it’s a matter of where will Rally Croatia will be held next year and not if and it seems CER is confirmed for it’s third year in a row.

[EstWRC]

Rally Croatia is a must. It’s a fantastic event.

Not only in real life but it’s also my favorites in the new WRC game. The stages are so much fun to play

[Backa]

Not only in real life but it’s also my favorites in the new WRC game. The stages are so much fun to play

That's little surprising, for me Croatia in EA WRC is disappointing and feels rather dull. It's partially due to too clean and smooth tarmac and partially due to Bliznec-Pila being weird choice for representing that rally. Plenty of Croatian stages are run across some villages while stage chosen for game is pretty much all forest with too much hairpins.

Agree it's great Croatia stays in calendar. Estonia getting back to calendar is also nice thing, although I prefer if it would rotate with Poland instead of Latvia. Maybe I will change my opinion after seeing WRC1 cars on Latvian roads but imo Poland and Estonia have more fun stages.

[philippebugalski]

That's little surprising, for me Croatia in EA WRC is disappointing and feels rather dull. It's partially due to too clean and smooth tarmac and partially due to Bliznec-Pila being weird choice for representing that rally. Plenty of Croatian stages are run across some villages while stage chosen for game is pretty much all forest with too much hairpins.

Agree it's great Croatia stays in calendar. Estonia getting back to calendar is also nice thing, although I prefer if it would rotate with Poland instead of Latvia. Maybe I will change my opinion after seeing WRC1 cars on Latvian roads but imo Poland and Estonia have more fun stages.

I would 100% agree that EA WRC Croatia is dull and does not represent the real unique stlye of our event. Every single stage there is includes roads from Medvednica mountain climbing to the top. In 2021 Croatia Rally shakedown and 2 stages where held there so basically EA made whole stage package around that which is disappointing cause in 2022 and 2023 rally did not conclude any of those stages.
Still every stage is linked to the same road climbing the same mountain making it 100% not accurate with real life stages and it's original names.

Would like to see them change it and make it accurate.

Down to the real event I'm rooting for it to be held with the base in Zagreb like it is now and not moving to the coastline.

[Sardalense]

Rally Croatia is a must. It’s a fantastic event.

Not only in real life but it’s also my favorites in the new WRC game. The stages are so much fun to play

Last year I had the chance to drive the stages 2/1.5 hours before the first cars. Road closed, full throtle, no pace notes, just driving. It was great. Great stages. Big surprise for me because I have to be honest, Croatia was not one of my favourite events. At some point someone asked me if I was a rally driver and I said no, I was just having fun!

[Andre Oliveira]

Portugal confirmed in 2025 calendar. Contract sign today afternoon.

[Eli]

Portugal confirmed in 2025 calendar. Contract sign today afternoon.

No surprises there, do you know if it was a multi-year deal or just for 2025?

[typhoon]

No surprises there, do you know if it was a multi-year deal or just for 2025?

Portugal had a clause to extend by 1 year to 2025.

[Backa]

Hopefully next year they will sign multi-year extenstion. WRC lost too many classics already.

[djip]

Hopefully next year they will sign multi-year extenstion. WRC lost too many classics already.

And Portugal is way better than Sardinia ...

[Backa]

Sardinia is weird one. I don't hate it but no matter if I think about southern european gravel rounds (Portugal, Greece), Italy (San Remo), or Mediterranean islands (Corsica), Sardinia is in shadow of other locations.

[TypeR]

Official: Rally Portugal confirmed for 2025 and 2026!

[GigiGalliNo1]

This will be the final rally in Sardegna... it's moving to the mainland but forget which region.

***Please note, this is something I was told during Portugal, rumour or true - thought to share it here.

Don't be hurt if you thought this was real and not speculation.

[Eli]

This will be the final rally in Sardegna... it's moving to the mainland but forget which region.

Seriously?? Is it also moving back to Tarmac??

[GigiGalliNo1]

That is what I've been told.

[deephouse]

San remo perhaps?

[wyler]

San remo perhaps?

more likely extending the erc roma rally to the gravel roads toward tuscany

[GigiGalliNo1]

At 19:15 Saturday, the FIA are announcing a new WRC event for 2025 at Sardegna.

The event, I don't know - perhaps Paraguay.

[Eli]

At 19:15 Saturday, the FIA are announcing a new WRC event for 2025 at Sardegna.

The event, I don't know - perhaps Paraguay.

Either Paraguay or Saudi Arabia.

[pedro16]

Either Paraguay or Saudi Arabia.

It's Saudi Arabia

2531

[Eli]

It's Saudi Arabia

2531

Guess it was bound to join sooner rather than later, I bet they’ll run it as the season finale after Japan in November.

[Dimitris]

There's a Hyundai in Sardegna with Rally Saudi Arabia stickers on it, and also there's a Saudi prince there for the unveiling

https://x.com/PowerslideMedia/status/1796909036970897518

[WRCStan]

Looking forward to this but I hope there's some detail in this announcement beyond an 'agreement in principle'. Give us HQ, surface, location, dates.

[Eli]

Looking forward to this but I hope there's some detail in this announcement beyond an 'agreement in principle'. Give us HQ, surface, location, dates.

Probably end of November so it won't be too hot and on Gravel, exact details we'll probably only find out towards 2025.

[Eli]

10 year deal!

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-signs-10-year-deal-to-host-saudi-arabia-round/10618577/
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/saudi-arabia-confirmed-as-wrc-round-for-2025/

[PLuto]

Money rules...

[Eli]

Money rules...

Or as Hamilton said a while back, Ca$h is King.

[Lead]

Wow

[WRCStan]

So,

Jeddah Base
Day in the Mountains
Day in a Volcano region
Day of 'formed' sandy roads in the desert.

Set to be the last of 14 rounds for 5 years at least.

That's something at least.

[jonkka]

I wonder which event gets booted off to make room for saudis. I don't think they will expand the calendar just yet.

[Eli]

I wonder which event gets booted off to make room for saudis. I don't think they will expand the calendar just yet.

who can they boot? Canary will replace Poland, Estonia for Latvia, Croatia stays, I think only Chile needs to sign for next year. Unless with all the monkey business in Kenya after this year will see the door but I doubt they would like to add another region to get rid of another.

[saco0o]

I wonder which event gets booted off to make room for saudis. I don't think they will expand the calendar just yet.

is a new location in Italia confirmed to replace Sardegna already? otherwise, theres your "exchange", maybe?

[Backa]

Maybe Central Europe Rally is at risk? Especially if Sardegna will be replaced by Tarmac rally like Roma Capitale. WRC never had calendar with 6 tarmac rallies if I am not mistaken.

Or maybe influx of cash from Saudis finally allow WRC to successfully organize 14-event season.

[Myrvold]

Lovely.

Another motorsport-event in a place I would be happily jailed, flogged, whatever just for being alive. ffs.

[J4MIE]

I would imagine the Saudi deal will probably pay for teams transportation, travel etc, they can afford it.

[J4MIE]

If anyone is interested in giving it a read, I happened upon the previous (2020-2022) Sardinia deal while googling for other stuff.

https://www.aci.it/laci/la-federazione/amministrazione-trasparente/archiviofile/aci/utente1889/EVENT%20PROMOTION%20AGREEMENT.pdf

[Kras]

Neuville gonna win sunday beacuse of dust 🤣

[GigiGalliNo1]

Lovely.

Another motorsport-event in a place I would be happily jailed, flogged, whatever just for being alive. ffs.

What have you done?

[Sal yet again]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

[Franky]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

A 10 year deal for an event that hasn't even ran yet ;) At least they've got money to hire people to make something happen.

[Eli]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

Everything is possible when you're the FIA & WRC promoter, apart from sorting basic stuff out and getting another manufacturer invloved in the sport, that's a bit too much for them.

[J4MIE]

10 year deal when they dont even have the regs sorted for a couple of years time looks a bit optimistic.

The first Safari was basically run by Motorsport UK, and slowly being weaned off over the years. I assume that it’ll be fairly similar for Saudi, though I’m sure that paid trips on Safari are more enticing than Saudi.

Not sure how long it’s been since they last had a MERC round.

[Eli]

The first Safari was basically run by Motorsport UK, and slowly being weaned off over the years. I assume that it’ll be fairly similar for Saudi, though I’m sure that paid trips on Safari are more enticing than Saudi.

Not sure how long it’s been since they last had a MERC round.

They did say they’ll be in the MERC at the beginning of next year.

Also regarding the rally (& the corruption behind it):
https://yle.fi/a/74-20091834

[Sulland]

Last version in a log line of sport-washing events in that region.
Why do they get event after event, the people that decide need to look behind the facade!


It's Saudi Arabia

2531

[J4MIE]

They did say they’ll be in the MERC at the beginning of next year.

Also regarding the rally (& the corruption behind it):
https://yle.fi/a/74-20091834

Yes March will be candidate/MERC event, full event in November.

[J4MIE]

Last version in a log line of sport-washing events in that region.
Why do they get event after event, the people that decide need to look behind the facade!

Money talks…

[WRCStan]

There's two points to make here people aren't getting: 1) Saudi is experiencing growth, diversification, investment and social change. Europe has peaked and is facing decline. 2) It's a commercial World series, not a European sport, and it's in decline which is linked to being too European. Those are at the crux of this deal.

Within this series the UK, France, Germany, Spain (soon Italy ?), have all lost their events before Saudi was even announced, and commercial attempts are struggling to gain feasibility. Enough remain, some at a cost for the Promotor, but still, Saudi is expanding the WRC calendar and won't be taking another's slot. 10 years is unprecedented, but it may just have been necessary to save the series. It may have been enough to kill the urgency of the changes by the working group. It may have enabled Hyundai to remain, or the promoter's ability to field them or other participants. OK, the FIA could try going to a Rally2 privateer, non-commercial, European based series instead - but it has chosen not to do that.

We all get it, Saudi isn't popular politically. Fortunately I've not seen too many complaints here, but I've seen a couple of popular figures on SM they are boycotting Saudi and that they can unsubscribe from Rally.TV and walk away from the series - yet they continue to complain. Please leave. Please join them if this is how you feel, this is the only way you make any meaningful point. How long do you want to complain before you realise you're insignificant and just annoying the wrong people.

[focus206]

The first Safari was basically run by Motorsport UK, and slowly being weaned off over the years. I assume that it’ll be fairly similar for Saudi, though I’m sure that paid trips on Safari are more enticing than Saudi.

Not sure how long it’s been since they last had a MERC round.

As far as I know, Saudi Arabia hosted one single MERC in its history, in 2010.

[focus206]

2) It's a commercial World series, not a European sport, and it's in decline which is linked to being too European. Those are at the crux of this deal.

I disagree. Only few fans who are obsessed with "too much Europe, we need to go to USA/India/Saudi etc."
Sure, the manufacturers could like one or two more rallies in their own key markets, but after that they'd soon complain about the series being too expensive because it goes to the four corners of the map - and probably the lack of visibility in those new countries, because too few people care to begin with.
Rallying is a European sport whether one likes it or not, and it's called world championship because it goes to the best international rallies around the globe, which include extra European events like Safari, NZ etc... lower the standard of those extra European events and even less people will care.



Within this series the UK, France, Germany, Spain (soon Italy ?), have all lost their events before Saudi was even announced,


France has Monte, Germany has CER, Spain will have Canarias, maybe Italy will have Roma, all very popular rallies...



We all get it, Saudi isn't popular politically. Fortunately I've not seen too many complaints here, but I've seen a couple of popular figures on SM they are boycotting Saudi and that they can unsubscribe from Rally.TV and walk away from the series - yet they continue to complain. Please leave. Please join them if this is how you feel, this is the only way you make any meaningful point. How long do you want to complain before you realise you're insignificant and just annoying the wrong people.

I don't particularly care for what the Saudi law is. I have my doubts they can organize a decent rally, both in terms of spectacle and the organization itself. They barely ever hosted a MERC rally, and have you ever seen footage of MERC rallies? For the vast majority a borefest in flat, barren landscape. IF they can put up a nice rally then nice, but signing a 10 years contract is silly. We all know, money talks.
Also that's such a bad mentality in my opinion. Complaining is the first step to change. Nobody ever complains, nothing ever changes, unless the ones above decide so. A bit like saying to all the fans who want 100 events outside of Europe to leave because they're insignificant and don't belong to such an European sport.

[Backa]

Complaining is the first step to change.

Sometimes. Quite often complaining is done instead of making first steps to change things, kind of shifting-blame excuse.

Even if Saudi round would be boring and/or poorly organized, for WRC and teams it probably will be financially beneficial anyway and it can lead to fans being less depressed about state of this series as a whole. Saudis tend to overpaid in sports.

MERC rallies in Kuwait or Qatar are flat borefests but in contrast to them, Saudi Arabia is not all flat desert. They have some roads similar to those used in Jordan Rally.

[AndersX]

Saudi landscape is stunning, we all have seen that in Dakar. From Picture Perfect point of view - will be good. Diversity of scenery - also will be good. Might even collect many spectators. Might even be the most spectator friendly event due to the wide access from everywhere with the proper car. Moral aspect is different matter here. We have seen that in FIA this part had never been an issue. Obviously Saudi investment will release and ease up some existential pressure of this beautiful motorsport. Let us wait and see where all this goes. I guess they will hire some European rally organization team to run the event.

[Sal yet again]

Middle Eastern money though has been around for a while and didnt hear of that many people walking away when Citroen were backed by Abu Dhabi and Ford by Qatar both countries with issues around rights for certain parts of society. FFS the WRC went to China in the past!

I share some of the disappointment that has been expressed elsewhere but we have an FIA President from that part of the world and a promoter chasing $ over heritage so it was inevitable.

[GigiGalliNo1]

It's funny that I've had a couple discussions you could say, on social media with people who complain that Saudi is in. Boycott this, won't support that, I'm out (!) and Money talks etc. And how other countries should have the event over Saudi due to their human rights, women's rights etc.

Since 2018, the Kingdom has progressed and changed. Fact. Yes there might be some topics of cultural differences ie Death penalty for example for crimes - but you know, there still are other places in the world for example Indonesia, which everyone flocks to Bali for holidays or is seen as one of the worlds top destinations.

K.S.A is run with a religious rule but is becoming lenient. Many countries are strict with law, you wouldn't go to Singapore and chew gum would you? It is a crime but no one is up in arms over this. Or visiting South East Asia and poking at Royal members...

Others I've discussed with have mentioned that Paraguay should be in the calendar. But what people don't know is that corruption remains widespread as well as organized crime, environmental destruction, systemic discrimination damage to the rights of rural and Indigenous populations continues to occur. Poverty and gender-based discrimination limits rights of women and children is going on as well.

Australia? Lack of government (federal and local) support for (motor) sporting that includes local population/residents and tax payers. Don't forget sponsors don't seem to have any interest in major sporting events or NZ for a world scale event unlike F1. Australians prefer football, soccer, tennis - you now 'athlete' physical sport.

I would categorise this paragraph under "Human Rights" be present or from the past:

Please don't get me started on what really is going on in Australia. There is no indigenous voice in government that is acknowledged. And no apology unlike Canada to it's indigenous people for when the British came, colonised, raped women, stole children and shipped them off to other parts of the country to educate them to be more "white" and never see their families again. Recently, a national vote ended up in disaster with a massive NO. Australia is one of the most diverse nations in the world yet is systematically Racist. We also have a housing shortage where yes, people are living in their cars, or tents in parks, in cities; have no rental homes or tenancies available and when they are available - the prices are over more than double what they were pre-2020. So completely unaffordable. You know how Americans live in carparks... same here! There is a high rate of Domestic Violence which of late, is becoming more of an issue than anything else.

How can a nation rich in resources and money treat its people, native or current immigrants so poorly? People speak of human rights... basic human rights.

Someone name me a country where there is no crime, housing problems, politics, corruption, funding, support and what some might call "Sport Washing".

If you really look hard, you'll see, no country or region is has clean hands.

[focus206]

Saudi landscape is stunning, we all have seen that in Dakar. From Picture Perfect point of view - will be good. Diversity of scenery - also will be good.

Yes, but WRC doesn't go on the dunes of the Empty Quarter. How are their gravel roads that are suitable for a rally car? Hard to tell, because they don't even have a MERC round to take as example. Jordan Rally wasn't too bad, but most of MERC rallies I've seen footage of are very, very boring.

[Franky]

Weren't Jordan's roads built for the rally?

[Eli]

Yes, but WRC doesn't go on the dunes of the Empty Quarter. How are their gravel roads that are suitable for a rally car? Hard to tell, because they don't even have a MERC round to take as example. Jordan Rally wasn't too bad, but most of MERC rallies I've seen footage of are very, very boring.

Emm, let me remind you the Cyprus Rally is also part of the championship and the last thing you can say about it is ‘boring’.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Weren't Jordan's roads built for the rally?

Same with Mexico, if you didn't know!

[focus206]

Emm, let me remind you the Cyprus Rally is also part of the championship and the last thing you can say about it is ‘boring’.

But Cyprus is not in consideration for a spot in the calendar, manufacturers don't want that. Lebanon is also in MERC and it's a rather twisty asphalt rally, also not in consideration. The typical MERC rallies (Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait etc.) are mostly flat roads in barren landscape.

[Eli]

But Cyprus is not in consideration for a spot in the calendar, manufacturers don't want that. Lebanon is also in MERC and it's a rather twisty asphalt rally, also not in consideration. The typical MERC rallies (Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait etc.) are mostly flat roads in barren landscape.

It’s a shame that it isn’t; for the less than 10 years that it ran it was a joy to watch.

[jonkka]

but still, Saudi is expanding the WRC calendar and won't be taking another's slot.

Source for this, please?

[Franky]

Same with Mexico, if you didn't know!

That I don't remember. But purpose built roads aren't an issue for me ;)

[Myrvold]

We all get it, Saudi isn't popular politically. Fortunately I've not seen too many complaints here, but I've seen a couple of popular figures on SM they are boycotting Saudi and that they can unsubscribe from Rally.TV and walk away from the series - yet they continue to complain. Please leave. Please join them if this is how you feel, this is the only way you make any meaningful point. How long do you want to complain before you realise you're insignificant and just annoying the wrong people.

I haven't watched any of the F1 races in Saudi. I have not watched FE there, nor "Dakar". I will happily skip the WRC event there as well, even though I've watched every stage from rallies on rally.tv (or WRC + / All Live) for a while now. Not all live, but also re-live.

Doesn't really have to be "political" in that sense either. For me it is quite simple. I've bought an apartment and a double bed together with another dude. That's enough to get me jailed. That's just not something I can ignore.

As a political-ish thing. There's still this feeling among many racers and kids in karting/crosskart that not being straight means you cannot succeed in motorsport. I do know one or more, that decided to "live hetero" as they feel that just being who they really are will remove all chances of keeping a seat. Or those who simply just stop racing/rallying due to it.
While it is more of a circuit racing thing, with the wag-cams and "girlfriend of" stuff, which I don't get why is a thing, I watch for the motorsport, not to look at people, it makes it quite clear that if a driver ends up with a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend. That will be an issue at certain events. So, don't be who you are to participate is a great thing to promote.

[Rallyper]

So now politics has been an component in discussions on where to have rallies or not...

I don´t like it...

I know, I know, money rules. And guys in the top are like politicians for sure. To me quality of event is the importance not to rule out.

[WRCStan]

Source for this, please?

"Rally Saudi Arabia is set to host the final round of next year’s expected 14-event championship in November and could be set to hold that berth for the next five years at least."

Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-signs-10-year-deal-to-host-saudi-arabia-round/10618577/)

Calendar should be done, TH at Autosport part of the circus. I trust this until it's proven wrong not right.

[steve.mandzij]

Personally I'm more disappointed that Japan isn't the last rally of the season anymore. Controversial, I guess, but I love Japan and it's crazy weather and narrow roads, and I also enjoyed that the first and last rallies of the season were both held on tarmac. It was good while it lasted...

[Eli]

Personally I'm more disappointed that Japan isn't the last rally of the season anymore. Controversial, I guess, but I love Japan and it's crazy weather and narrow roads, and I also enjoyed that the first and last rallies of the season were both held on tarmac. It was good while it lasted...

I'm more disapointed that Japan didn't capatlize on the fact it's a tarmac event and gave us night stages (and lots of them), which would be wayyyy more convinenet for every one watching in the old continent, espcially when you consider it being the season finale.

[WRCStan]

Rallying is a European sport whether one likes it or not

Agree in the main, however I make a distinction between the sport and the series, and I meant that the series is in decline because of being too linked to Europe, not the sport. That has nothing to do with any fan's opinion.



France has Monte, Germany has CER, Spain will have Canarias, maybe Italy will have Roma, all very popular rallies...

ACM has Monte and is in WRC for free/super low fee which the promoter has to compensate somewhere else. Germany has 1/3rd of CER and I'm not convinced it's a great earner for promoter either with being local. Canarias is a local organiser - I admit I don't know the support details on this for WRC, let's hope it lasts. Ireland also couldn't get theirs to pay. It's not a point about physical location - it's about decline of the ASN's abilities or desire to stage events like how it was in the past up until recent years.


Also that's such a bad mentality in my opinion. Complaining is the first step to change. Nobody ever complains, nothing ever changes, unless the ones above decide so.

This is how I don't think people are getting my 2) point. You have no right to force change, it's not a democracy, you're not a shareholder. You will only ever be a consumer until the day you stop consuming. If you let the payment go through but signal you're not buying into it - and to the wrong people - you're a hypocrite.

[jonkka]

"Rally Saudi Arabia is set to host the final round of next year’s expected 14-event championship in November and could be set to hold that berth for the next five years at least."

Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-signs-10-year-deal-to-host-saudi-arabia-round/10618577/)

Calendar should be done, TH at Autosport part of the circus. I trust this until it's proven wrong not right.

Given how late calendars for past two years have been published, I doubt that calendar is anywhere near done as we speak. It's good of you to have so much trust, I only believe in things when I see them and even then half of what I see are likely to be hoaxes. Anyway, thanks for source, I'll be keeping an eye on this matter.

[rallyfiend]

Agree in the main, however I make a distinction between the sport and the series, and I meant that the series is in decline because of being too linked to Europe, not the sport. That has nothing to do with any fan's opinion.



Can I ask what your basis for saying the 'series is in decline'? I just curious.

Is it just a judgement based purely because of 8 - 10 factory entered cars? Or is it evidence on audience / financial etc?

Because WRC2 seems to be booming, so is JWRC, and I don't see any evidence of decline in spectators numbers.....

[WRCStan]

Can I ask what your basis for saying the 'series is in decline'? I just curious.

Is it just a judgement based purely because of 8 - 10 factory entered cars? Or is it evidence on audience / financial etc?

Because WRC2 seems to be booming, so is JWRC, and I don't see any evidence of decline in spectators numbers.....

WRC2 and JWRC aren't significant earners for the series - JWRC isn't even WRC Promoter's and 4 of those entries are backed by FIA. At least in theory.

Something I keep coming back to in multiple threads is that there is no series without the Rally1 class. Whether that's big money manufacturers as tradition, the promotor's own entries in an FIA branded car with other revenue, or somewhere in between like now.

(European) Manufacturers don't want to take part.
(European) Rallies can't or don't want to take part.
('' '') World Champions are reluctant to take part.

If the promoter has to stage the full show in the future - that is provide the cars, drivers and stages - it needs the revenue from other sources.

Where some European state ASNs are backing entries now in any class - how long can it realistically continue when the outlook doesn't look good?

[Steve Boyd]

Ireland back as a possibility for 2026?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/articles/cz55pkmyp8ro

[er88]

Ireland back as a possibility for 2026?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/articles/cz55pkmyp8ro
Oh look, another article on a potential round in Ireland. Only heard similar articles for the past 4years or so....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Oh look, another article on a potential round in Ireland. Only heard similar articles for the past 4years or so....

Oh look another chance for er88 to slap down any positivity concerning the UK / Ireland chances.

At least the Irish are seriously trying and there is a real.possibility the WRC may come. The MI Rally Academy is doing well by supporting their drivers and the whole scene there is desperate to get the WRC back.

[J4MIE]

Oh look another chance for er88 to slap down any positivity concerning the UK / Ireland chances.

At least the Irish are seriously trying and there is a real.possibility the WRC may come. The MI Rally Academy is doing well by supporting their drivers and the whole scene there is desperate to get the WRC back.

Not sure I see the positivity - these checks were meant to have been don's before the last decision.
A lot of young Irish are funded by a very very very very very (very) rich individual, not by the sport in Ireland itself.

[Myrvold]

So now politics has been an component in discussions on where to have rallies or not...

I don´t like it...

I know, I know, money rules. And guys in the top are like politicians for sure. To me quality of event is the importance not to rule out.

When any championship decides to have a round/event at a place where their competitors might be at risk just by, well, being alive. That's what happens.

What an image to send to youngsters as well. Rally, an inclusive sport, open for anyone. Just not WRC, or at least, if you happen to have a boyfriend as a male driver, don't bring him to that event, and if you must. Don't hold hands or anything. Refrain from emotions if you win. Meh.

[J4MIE]

When any championship decides to have a round/event at a place where their competitors might be at risk just by, well, being alive. That's what happens.

What an image to send to youngsters as well. Rally, an inclusive sport, open for anyone. Just not WRC, or at least, if you happen to have a boyfriend as a male driver, don't bring him to that event, and if you must. Don't hold hands or anything. Refrain from emotions if you win. Meh.

You can’t change anything by sniping from the outside and sneering in.

Sounds like you need to read the latest travel advice to the country, and take into account their laws & cultures, that is part of what world travel is all about, right?

[Steve Boyd]

So, if a male driver has a female co-driver that isn't his wife, does her father or brother have to ride in the back with the spare wheels?

[J4MIE]

So, if a male driver has a female co-driver that isn't his wife, does her father or brother have to ride in the back with the spare wheels?

Several female competitors in Dakar (both drivers and co-drivers) - it’s not an issue.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not sure I see the positivity - these checks were meant to have been done before the last decision.

A lot of young Irish are funded by a very very very very very (very) rich individual, not by the sport in Ireland itself.

It wasnt possible in the timeframe, but that means it wasnt actually refused.

IMO there is a much better chance of success in the Rep of Ireland than there was in N.Ireland which had no proper Govt as well as a very tight budget.

And even if there is a wealthy benefactor for some drivers there, MI Rally Academy is still helping and much so than UK Motorsport ever does.

[J4MIE]

It wasnt possible in the timeframe, but that means it wasnt actually refused.

IMO there is a much better chance of success in the Rep of Ireland than there was in N.Ireland which had no proper Govt as well as a very tight budget.

And even if there is a wealthy benefactor for some drivers there, MI Rally Academy is still helping and much so than UK Motorsport ever does.

MI academy is funded by the same person.

And correct - the previous decision wasn’t refused, it was because the government hadn’t looked at the details so it all fell apart.

[Franky]

May I ask, who is this mystery Mr Rich?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

May I ask, who is this mystery Mr Rich?

John Coyne.

[satnav]

May I ask, who is this mystery Mr Rich?

It's no mystery, it's well known that John has funded the Billy Coleman award and also the Academy and still does, which i think is a great credit to all involved.

https://motorsportireland.com/Public/Public/AboutUs/Motorsport_Ireland_Rally_Academy.aspx

https://www.mirallyacademy.ie/

As for the Rally Ireland episode now that's a whole different scenario, but at least they are trying which is a lot more than can be said for the MSA

[Myrvold]

You can’t change anything by sniping from the outside and sneering in.

Sounds like you need to read the latest travel advice to the country, and take into account their laws & cultures, that is part of what world travel is all about, right?

Yes, I know that they say LGBT-tourists are welcome. It also is noted that Saudi Arabia has some of the strictest anti-LGBTQ+ laws in the world, where same-sex sexual acts and identifying as LGBTQ+ are punishable by death, lifetime prison sentences, flogging, and chemical castration.
That's not a place I would spend any money in. I've lost friends due to not feeling accepted, I know of racers that doesn't want to be honest, as they fear it will end their career. I cannot look at that, and with a good conscience pretend it's all fine because they would like my money.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fourmaux and Ogier amongst many backing a WRC return to Ireland:

"Fourmaux, who got to experience local roads first hand when he triumphed at last August’s Ulster Rally on his way to being crowned British Rally Championship champion.

“It will be good to have another tarmac event, especially in Ireland where the roads are similar to Finland except on tarmac,” said the 28-year-old, who is currently fifth in the WRC standings.

“I have been told by many people they are the most beautiful roads in the world and after the Ulster Rally, I would have to agree. My message to those working on this is just keep pushing because it will come, and when it does it will show what a beautiful country it is to the world.”

Compatriot Sebastien Ogier — an eight-time WRC champion — added: “We all know how much enthusiasm exists in Ireland for motorsport, so it will probably be a great event. If you are asking me for an opinion, I am definitely in favour of the idea.”

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sport/irish-return-to-world-rally-stage-would-be-a-huge-positive-says-adrien-fourmaux/a940495021.html

[AndyRAC]

Easy for them to say they want Ireland in the WRC; they're not putting their hands in their pockets to fund it. I too would like to see it in the WRC, but not at any cost; the Promoter wants silly money, for what is a niche series......The WRC doesnt' warrant the money they want.....just because others pay it, doesn't mean it's right.

[Eli]

I think there's a better chance of Rally Italy being in Rome next year; Actually, there's a better chance we'll see France (whether it's Corsica or not) back in the championship before we'll see Ireland (which I'd love to see if there was any doubt).

[WRCStan]

Review of the USA event in Chattanooga, https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-was-tennessee-rally-usa-all-about/

Think we can safely rule it out for 2025.

[WRCStan]

Paraguay officially in, 2025-2027

https://x.com/OfficialWRC/status/1804652024685904081

[Eli]

So they haven't announced the calendar in WMSC but we can safely assume that Canary Islands will replace Poland, Estonia for Latvia & Paraguay for Chile with Saudi Arabia added as season finale but all the other events will stay?

[WRCStan]

So they haven't announced the calendar in WMSC but we can safely assume that Canary Islands will replace Poland, Estonia for Latvia & Paraguay for Chile with Saudi Arabia added as season finale but all the other events will stay?

"Two events in the South America region had been targeted as key goal for 2025, which has now been realised. ... It is expected to join fellow South American nation Chile on next year’s schedule"

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/embargo-wrc-adds-paraguay-to-2025-calendar-in-multi-year-deal/10626344/

This article has Autosport still set on 14 rounds.

Sully agrees it's a second South American round: https://x.com/fia/status/1804821903267233869/photo/1

[Eli]

"Two events in the South America region had been targeted as key goal for 2025, which has now been realised. ... It is expected to join fellow South American nation Chile on next year’s schedule"

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/embargo-wrc-adds-paraguay-to-2025-calendar-in-multi-year-deal/10626344/

This article has Autosport still set on 14 rounds.

Sully agrees it's a second South American round: https://x.com/fia/status/1804821903267233869/photo/1

So to summarise:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Kenya
Croatia
Canary Islands
Portugal
Italy
Estonia
Finland
Greece
Chile
Paraguay
Central European Rally
Japan
Saudi Arabia
So that’s 15 events…seeing they’d swap Estonia for Latvia it means CER would get the boot?

[WRCStan]

So that’s 15 events…seeing they’d swap Estonia for Latvia it means CER would get the boot?

Monte, Croatia and Chile are not on 'the contract tracker' at Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_World_Rally_Championship), but Chile is safe by quotes.

[Eli]

Well I guess it makes sense since CER replaced Spain last year, that next year it takes CER spot instead, great shame though, from last year's edition, looked fantastic and even on TV it was a joy to watch.

[tc10a]

Accoring to https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2025-calendar-puzzle-is-falling-into-place/

"The Central European Rally is also confirmed, with 2025 marking the final year of its three-year agreement, and no word yet on its future beyond that. "

And it was always announced from thr beginning to be 2023-2025 at last.

[Eli]

Accoring to https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2025-calendar-puzzle-is-falling-into-place/

"The Central European Rally is also confirmed, with 2025 marking the final year of its three-year agreement, and no word yet on its future beyond that. "

And it was always announced from thr beginning to be 2023-2025 at last.

So again the question remains, which event they'll drop for next year?

[J4MIE]

So again the question remains, which event they'll drop for next year?

Why do you think an event will be dropped?

[WRCStan]

Would be 15 events and they said they are aiming for 15 events, unless I’m missing something.

They are aiming for 14.

It looks to be either Monte or Croatia.

[Backa]

Hard to imagine Monte losing spot.

[Eli]

yes I'm sorry, I mistakenly wrote 'aiming for 15' instead of 14 and I hope they won't drop Monte-Carlo.

[denkimi]

Hard to imagine Monte losing spot.
It happened before, from 2009 to 2011.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How the Donegal International Rally promoted the case for a WRC return to Ireland...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/how-donegal-answered-irelands-wrc-question/

[Sal yet again]

Watched a few YT videos of national events in Paraguay and looks like there will be a bit of work to do on spectator control!

[WRCStan]

Hard to imagine Monte losing spot.

Maybe with the Paraguay and Canary sportswashing money bulging out of their fists they can tell the ACM to piss right off.

[Antonis9]

Acropolis rally extend the contract until 2027. The golden sponsor of the rally EKO did an event today ! Good news for us !!

[Dimitris]

And also the Rally will return to its normal June slot, which means there's likely to be a Portugal Sardegna and Acropolis triple header next year

[Eli]

And also the Rally will return to its normal June slot, which means there's likely to be a Portugal Sardegna and Acropolis triple header next year

So a double header in South America in September perhaps?

[Antonis9]

So a double header in South America in September perhaps?

Yes probably!!

[Backa]

And also the Rally will return to its normal June slot, which means there's likely to be a Portugal Sardegna and Acropolis triple header next year

Or Portugal, Acropolis and then Rally di Roma Capitale in July.

[MentalParadox]

But Cyprus is not in consideration for a spot in the calendar, manufacturers don't want that.

Because it's too rough, isn't it? I bet they axed Turkey again for the same reason. Whenever I see this "manufacturers don't want it" argument, I just read "the competitor doesn't want challenge, the event should be removed."
Maybe that's another reason for the sport's decline in popularity. Like F1, they seek to cater to competitors' desires more than the desires of the fans - which are typically diametrically opposed to each other. As a fan, I want to watch them struggle, and deal with rough terrain. Adapt and overcome. What THEY want is a 12 round calendar with 6 butter smooth gravel rallies like Finland and 6 smooth tarmac rallies like Japan. We are not the same

[rallyfiend]

Because it's too rough, isn't it? I bet they axed Turkey again for the same reason. Whenever I see this "manufacturers don't want it" argument, I just read "the competitor doesn't want challenge, the event should be removed."
Maybe that's another reason for the sport's decline in popularity. Like F1, they seek to cater to competitors' desires more than the desires of the fans - which are typically diametrically opposed to each other. As a fan, I want to watch them struggle, and deal with rough terrain. Adapt and overcome. What THEY want is a 12 round calendar with 6 butter smooth gravel rallies like Finland and 6 smooth tarmac rallies like Japan. We are not the same

I think event like Turkey are off the calendar because there is no money there - just like in F1....

WRC events are expensive to run. The money needs to come from somewhere....

[Dimitris]

Cyprus is currently having 2 national championships and disputes between two organisations on who has the right to organise rallies in Cyprus. Rally Cyprus is only part of the MERC nowadays.

As for Turkey, they just don't have a lot of money, and Acropolis is a lot better

[Eli]

Cyprus is currently having 2 national championships and disputes between two organisations on who has the right to organise rallies in Cyprus. Rally Cyprus is only part of the MERC nowadays.

As for Turkey, they just don't have a lot of money, and Acropolis is a lot better

Which again is a great shame, it brought a unique challenge for all crews whether during the WRC era, IRC days, and even later during it's time in the ERC.

[Dimitris]

Yeah, I'd like to see it in the ERC, there aren't any rough gravel rallies in there

[Backa]

Because it's too rough, isn't it?

I doubt that's the case. Safari, Acropolis and Sardegna are quite rough too. Cyprus is small market and I think rallying is not as popular there as in Estonia and Latvia.

[Eli]

Yeah, I'd like to see it in the ERC, there aren't any rough gravel rallies in there

Which gravel rallies do they run this year? Hungary, Estonia, Sweden & Rally Silesia? yeah, and they used to have them before covid.

[RallyFan13]

WRC Promoter and Cyprus Rally was planed to Organize ERC in 2024 and WRC 2025&2026 but the local Ministry of Finance decline to finance the events.

[Mirek]

Which gravel rallies do they run this year? Hungary, Estonia, Sweden & Rally Silesia? yeah, and they used to have them before covid.

Silesia is asphalt.

[J4MIE]

WRC Promoter and Cyprus Rally was planed to Organize ERC in 2024 and WRC 2025&2026 but the local Ministry of Finance decline to finance the events.

:(

[Dimitris]

Do you have a source for this? I'd like to read more

[Eli]

This is from 2022 but it does refer to the situation: https://cyprus-mail.com/2022/07/21/loss-of-cyprus-rally-this-year-unreasonable-and-criminal/
Regarding the dispute: https://cyprus-mail.com/2022/10/09/funding-dispute-halts-cyprus-rally/
and last but not least from last year: https://cyprus-mail.com/2023/09/19/cyprus-rally-to-return-after-a-year-of-absence/

[RallyFan13]

Same story but a year later…
But now with Saudi Arabia is difficult to add another one middle-east race.

[WRCStan]

Let me guess, the ex-minister of the CAA is of a right-leaning party, whilst the ruling party setting up the Federation is leaning left?

[AndyRAC]

WRC Promoter and Cyprus Rally was planed to Organize ERC in 2024 and WRC 2025&2026 but the local Ministry of Finance decline to finance the events.

Good on them; rallying needs to attract proper commercial sponsorship - not handouts from government/local assemblies/ tourist boards. The hosting fee for a WRC round is ridiculously high for a currently lame series.

[Dimitris]

Good on them; rallying needs to attract proper commercial sponsorship - not handouts from government/local assemblies/ tourist boards. The hosting fee for a WRC round is ridiculously high for a currently lame series.

What...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good on them; rallying needs to attract proper commercial sponsorship - not handouts from government/local assemblies/ tourist boards. The hosting fee for a WRC round is ridiculously high for a currently lame series.

Many WRC Rounds are funded this way.

The Welsh government financed WRGB for years and now we dont have a UK round after they pulled the funding. Do you think this is good too ?

[Eli]

Many WRC Rounds are funded this way.

The Welsh government financed WRGB for years and now we don't have a UK round after they pulled the funding. Do you think this is good too ?

The same can be said about Corsica no? or was that just the FFSA?

[rallyfiend]

Good on them; rallying needs to attract proper commercial sponsorship - not handouts from government/local assemblies/ tourist boards. The hosting fee for a WRC round is ridiculously high for a currently lame series.

Governments around the world lining up to renew contracts or to grab a WRC event - but you know better?

Massive crowds pumping money in to the local economy.

Cry harder Britain.

How's your round of WEC in the UK going?

[PLuto]

Everything is about money. Without government money, there are no events on this level. It is not only rally, but also other sports...

[WRCStan]

Everything is about money. Without government money, there are no events on this level. It is not only rally, but also other sports...

Also, the rest of life.

[denkimi]

Everything is about money. Without government money, there are no events on this level. It is not only rally, but also other sports...
There were events before governments started getting involved.
By now it's just an auction and the highest bidders get an event. The FIA gets to charge such ridiculous amounts of money because some governments are desperate to get a rally. If all governments stopped pumping money into it, we would still have a comparable championship but the people in charge of the FIA wouldn't get as rich.

We don't need government money to have a rally, only to fill the pockets of greedy FIA people.

[saco0o]

but is there any current round of wrc/erc that is not government money paying the fee?
some of rallies have a title sponsor, like vodafone and bauhaus. how is the split between government/private company?

[WRCStan]

There were events before governments started getting involved.
By now it's just an auction and the highest bidders get an event. The FIA gets to charge such ridiculous amounts of money because some governments are desperate to get a rally. If all governments stopped pumping money into it, we would still have a comparable championship but the people in charge of the FIA wouldn't get as rich.

We don't need government money to have a rally, only to fill the pockets of greedy FIA people.

If governments weren't creating government money, there'd be a new monetary system. Until that arrives it's pointless dragging up the past.

[Eli]

Sorry to deter the discussion back to the original topic but didn't they say they'd know the calendar by June, and then later said July?

[Dimitris]

They said the same last year and we ended up having it in October...

I think the last place on the calendar is between CER and Croatia (my own speculation)

[J4MIE]

There were events before governments started getting involved.
By now it's just an auction and the highest bidders get an event. The FIA gets to charge such ridiculous amounts of money because some governments are desperate to get a rally. If all governments stopped pumping money into it, we would still have a comparable championship but the people in charge of the FIA wouldn't get as rich.

We don't need government money to have a rally, only to fill the pockets of greedy FIA people.

Obviously everyone loves to kick the FIA for some reason, but you do realise that it is the WRC Promotors that get the fees and become rich. They are making as much money as they possibly can, it is a business to them, plus lots of them get paid to attend the events, travel around the world including possible candidate events, and have nice jollies on the side.

[rallyfiend]

Obviously everyone loves to kick the FIA for some reason, but you do realise that it is the WRC Promotors that get the fees and become rich. They are making as much money as they possibly can, it is a business to them, plus lots of them get paid to attend the events, travel around the world including possible candidate events, and have nice jollies on the side.

I'm sure the FIA make a lot of money out of it too. They're not a charity...

They would get money from Promoter, the Manufacturers, Events, competitors....

[denkimi]

Obviously everyone loves to kick the FIA for some reason, but you do realise that it is the WRC Promotors that get the fees and become rich. They are making as much money as they possibly can, it is a business to them, plus lots of them get paid to attend the events, travel around the world including possible candidate events, and have nice jollies on the side.
And who picks the promotor?

[flat_right]

President of the Estonian Autosport Union Toivo Asmer, said this in the Delfi Rally Estonia magazine: "I believe that this year's ERC rally is quite a welcome break before the 2025 season and the subsequent WRC rallies. The organizers plan to do several things better again, and a little warm-up time will be very beneficial."

[flat_right]

WRC set to expand to 14 rounds for 2025 campaign https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-set-to-expand-to-14-rounds-for-2025-campaign/10631092/

[Corcaíoch]

Its a pity to see Croatia go, if true, it had become one of my favourite rallies on the calendar. Any idea if its expected to be back again soon?

[Eli]

what happened to my post, why did it disappear?

[PLuto]

what happened to my post, why did it disappear?

I can see that you have made post today at 8:24, but later it was deleted by you.

[Eli]

I can see that you have made post today at 8:24, but later it was deleted by you.

I was trying to edit it, not sure how I got it deleted, thanks though.

[saco0o]

I was trying to edit it, not sure how I got it deleted, thanks though.

are you on your phone, on the browser? that happens a lot haha it sux

[Eli]

are you on your phone, on the browser? that happens a lot haha it sux

I was on my phone, yes.

[TypeR]

I was on my phone, yes.
When editing with phone, try chaning to ,,full site'' mode (at the bottom of the page) before editing. This should help.

[becher]

Shame about Croatia....

[flat_right]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-estonia-prepared-for-wrc-return-next-year/ "The Tartu-based event has an agreement with WRC Promoter which means alternating between the two series. Latvia will take Estonia’s calendar slot next year."

From this I read that Latvia is not just one off and they will rotate with Estonia? Or did I understand wrong? Might it mean that Estonia is rotating and every two years some ERC event will get "a promotion"?

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-estonia-prepared-for-wrc-return-next-year/ "The Tartu-based event has an agreement with WRC Promoter which means alternating between the two series. Latvia will take Estonia’s calendar slot next year."

From this I read that Latvia is not just one off and they will rotate with Estonia? Or did I understand wrong? Might it mean that Estonia is rotating and every two years some ERC event will get "a promotion"?

I think next year it will still be Estonia according to the beggining: "With his round of the European Rally Championship finishing yesterday, Rally Estonia director Urmo Aava is already looking forward to the event’s World Rally Championship return next year."

[flat_right]

I think next year it will still be Estonia according to the beggining: "With his round of the European Rally Championship finishing yesterday, Rally Estonia director Urmo Aava is already looking forward to the event’s World Rally Championship return next year."

Yes, next year is Estonia, this has been confirmed but what I meant is that does Estonia rotate with Latvia or some other ERC event.

[Eli]

Here we're talking about events we'd like to see/comeback and what do you know it, Dirtfish has an article about it: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-wrc-cant-afford-to-forget-new-zealand/

[WRCStan]

Here we're talking about events we'd like to see/comeback and what do you know it, Dirtfish has an article about it: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-wrc-cant-afford-to-forget-new-zealand/

They've got a job to do, these topics will overlap and he has the latest details. No big scam.

[Eli]

They've got a job to do, these topics will overlap and he has the latest details. No big scam.

I didn't say it was lol.

[Managarium]

Croatia officially out for 2025.

https://rally-croatia.com/en/news/wrc-in-croatia-on-the-break

[becher]

Croatia officially out for 2025.

https://rally-croatia.com/en/news/wrc-in-croatia-on-the-break
Ah FFS

[Morte66]

Croatia officially out for 2025.

https://rally-croatia.com/en/news/wrc-in-croatia-on-the-break

That's a shame. It was a pretty good rally this year. Partly because five drivers stayed on the road and avoided punctures and were generally in close competition, but also it was just good stages.

[saepuru]

Does anyone have a template for the calendar to show, what has been confirmed and which spots are still available?

[WRCStan]

Portugal in March would be good, bit of much needed weather jeopardy and breaks the gravel run a little if Canaries stays in May.

[pedro16]

Portugal in March would be good, bit of much needed weather jeopardy and breaks the gravel run a little if Canaries stays in May.

Unpredictable weather is nice, but not so nice when stages get canceled.
No need to go back a long time... ERC Fafe gave plenty of proof that having an early round in this area can be a wrong choice.
I don't see it being earlier than April at best.

[EstWRC]

Sad to see Croatia go. One of my favorites if not the favorite of the recently added rallies.

Always drama and action and the stages also looked amazing

[Duvel]

Does anyone have a template for the calendar to show, what has been confirmed and which spots are still available?


I dont have, but i would like to know to.
Lot off roumors, but wich one's are confirmed?

[TypeR]

After this weekend rally fans don't need GPS in Latvia anymore.. allLive maps is fully memorized :D

[Eli]

I dont have, but i would like to know to.
Lot off roumors, but wich one's are confirmed?

Monte Carlo (should be finalised), Sweden, (I think) Kenya, Canary Islands, Portugal, Italy-Sardgena, Greece, Estonia(pretty much confirmed), Finland, Paraguay,Chile, Central European, Japan, Saudi Arabia. Give or take ;)

[deephouse]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_World_Rally_Championship, it pretty much says it all. Monte will be included, I'm sure.

[Sulland]

Monte Carlo (should be finalised), Sweden, (I think) Kenya, Canary Islands, Portugal, Italy-Sardgena, Greece, Estonia(pretty much confirmed), Finland, Paraguay,Chile, Central European, Japan, Saudi Arabia. Give or take ;)

I am against all the "new" countries.
Very few of them will be able to get a larger field than the normal rally1 and rally2 contracted crews. It will probably be to expensive for locals to compete, so small fields.

[WRCStan]

Unpredictable weather is nice, but not so nice when stages get canceled.
No need to go back a long time... ERC Fafe gave plenty of proof that having an early round in this area can be a wrong choice.
I don't see it being earlier than April at best.

Aim for predictable weather than. Come a bit further north maybe, very little chance it'd be the holiday resort/southern European rallies.

Best chance would be if Safari upped the milage and ran over an extra day or two. We need more variable weather on the gravel rounds. Poland/Estonia/Latvia/Finland and Portugal/Italy/Greece in the sun are all too similar for my liking.

[Eli]

I am against all the "new" countries.
Very few of them will be able to get a larger field than the normal rally1 and rally2 contracted crews. It will probably be to expensive for locals to compete, so small fields.

I would have Argentina, Australia, Wales, Deutschland, Corsica back in a heartbeat but like it has been said here time and again, Money talks. I mean, did the organisers pay their own people their salaries in Kenya this year? Are they still having the event next year? I guess that and the fact Saudi Arabia are in until 2035(!) tells you what you need to know…

[WRCStan]

WRC is too heavy on gravel, ERC too heavy on tarmac. Solution = swap gravel for gravel, tarmac for tarmac. Maybe could've been addressed.

[deephouse]

The calendar should consist all continents of the world, have 7 gravel, 4 tarmac, 1 snow, 2 mixed events (monte-tarmac/snow and one gravel/tarmac). It should be spread at least like that, that it isn't only gravel or tarmac events one after another. The dates for some should be moving in the season, where there is a great chance of desired weather conditions, or having enough snow or not too hot like Kenya or Saudi. Also the road should be somewhere smooth, somewhere rough, somewhere nice tarmac, somewhere bad as shit.

I would personal throw out some european events and bring America and Aus or NZ back. Some countries could link their rallies like CER or rotate like Latvia/Estonia. That way all would get one piece of cake.

[MartijnS]

Read somewhere that Greece might be from Loutrake again next year. The last used hotel as HQ is ‘fully’ booked only in the week from 23-30 June next year. Suspicious;)

[Tauri_J]

Stop with mixed event wishes.

They were ditched for a reason

[J4MIE]

I would have Argentina, Australia, Wales, Deutschland, Corsica back in a heartbeat but like it has been said here time and again, Money talks. I mean, did the organisers pay their own people their salaries in Kenya this year? Are they still having the event next year? I guess that and the fact Saudi Arabia are in until 2035(!) tells you what you need to know…

It is in, but think the first issue for the Safari is the current political situation where basically the whole cabinet was sacked by the president. A CS for sports will need to be nominated and approved before anything can begin to be looked at, never mind approved or signed off. I think part of the delays with stuff this year (on the government side of things) was that nothing was looked at until start of January.


I am against all the "new" countries.
Very few of them will be able to get a larger field than the normal rally1 and rally2 contracted crews. It will probably be to expensive for locals to compete, so small fields.

That’s always been the case for more exotic events, and you just have to look at the reduction in national crews entering. I think especially after the first year enthusiasm wears off, the high cost of competing is too much for a lot of crews. I think Paraguay is a fairly popular event already so should have locals competing, maybe some South Americans can do both that and Chile? Saudi will be a MERC round so will bring a few Rally2 crews.

Renember though that the promotors, organisers and most people on here simply couldn’t care less about those outside Rally1 & Rally2 crews, nobody else exists past them on the entry list - a lot of people on here also complain about events with low entry numbers!!

[Dimitris]

Read somewhere that Greece might be from Loutrake again next year. The last used hotel as HQ is ‘fully’ booked only in the week from 23-30 June next year. Suspicious;)

I can neither confirm nor deny these rumours 👀

[J4MIE]

It will be very hot at that time of year…

[Dimitris]

I know, I thought it was going to be in early June, where the temp would have been similar to September. But late June will have 32°C at best. And also, the Loutraki stages could be in risk of fire, but usually fires start in July and August.

[GigiGalliNo1]

So has the calendar been published?

[Eli]

So has the calendar been published?

Not yet, they said June, then beginning of July and now we’re nearly in August..

[106 sport]

Looks like World Rally Championship will dispute in Gran Canaria the last week of April, Rally Islas Canarias, formerly called Rally El Corte Inglés.
There are many people who want to know when Rally Islas Canarias, Gran Canaria, will take place, so that, they can buy tickets to Gran Canaria, an island that receives more than 4,500,000 tourists every year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Kenya is in March
Canarias is end of April (27th)
Paraguay is end of Aug
Followed by Chile
The CER
KSA last weekend of Nov.

[TypeR]

e: calendar game out

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GT01ZZbXcAAyFuy?format=jpg&name=small

[Eli]

At long last:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-2025-calendar-revealed/

Nothing new here I guess.

[deephouse]

Why the hell did they again put 7 pure gravel events one after another?

[rallyfiend]

Why the hell did they again put 7 pure gravel events one after another?

What tarmac rally could they break it up with?!

[Morte66]

Well, none of the tarmac rallies clash with my holiday plans. :)

[Backa]

What tarmac rally could they break it up with?!

Replacing Sardegna with tarmac Rally Roma di Capitale would be great. Then changing spots of Acropolis and Roma di Capitale.

Canary Islands
Portugal
Acropolis
Roma di Capitale
Estonia
Finland
Paraguay
Chile
Central Europe

[focus206]

Replacing Sardegna with tarmac Rally Roma di Capitale would be great. Then changing spots of Acropolis and Roma di Capitale.

Canary Islands
Portugal
Acropolis
Roma di Capitale
Estonia
Finland
Paraguay
Chile
Central Europe

It's Rally di Roma Capitale, or just Roma Capitale.
It always felt like a generic asphalt rally to me, I like Sardegna roads more... but rather than having 7 gravel rallies in a row, might as well do the swap.
Another bad thing about this calendar is Saudi Arabia as last round, I would imagine a big cleaning effect for the championship leader in the decisive round. But with Kalle coming back, there's a good chance the championship will be decided by then.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why the hell did they again put 7 pure gravel events one after another?

Ridiculous ! They learned nothing from this year's constant gripes about road position, sweeping and part-time drivers.

The top guys may as well relax for Monte and Sweden and let the others lead the Championship and open the gravel events.

[focus206]

Ridiculous ! They learned nothing from this year's constant gripes about road position, sweeping and part-time drivers.

The top guys may as well relax for Monte and Sweden and let the others lead the Championship and open the gravel events.

In the ridiculous eventuality that Ogier wins this year's title, I'd start thinking about a part time program if I were Tanak and Neuville... skipping their weakest rallies and let others open the road. Then watch people complaining than in some events there are 5 Rally1 cars at the start.

[EstWRC]

In the ridiculous eventuality that Ogier wins this year's title, I'd start thinking about a part time program if I were Tanak and Neuville... skipping their weakest rallies and let others open the road. Then watch people complaining than in some events there are 5 Rally1 cars at the start.

ive been thinking the same thing and i wouldnt rule it out.

If Ogier indeed wins the title this year, its a huge blow for the full time drivers and i can see Evans, Tänak and Neuville all thinking they would do the same then.

[TypeR]

Like Kalle said, everybody (last WDC's) has done sweeping and no point of whining about it anymore.
Neuville has had 10+ years of this advantage, haven't managed to bring it home and now ONE bad rally.. and max big problem.

If Ogier wins the title this year, then 9 hats off to him! All done by the rules and nothing more to say. Maybe - ,,Learn to drive!''

[Eli]

What tarmac rally could they break it up with?!

You're right, all of the are dead, Corsica, not run since 2019, Ireland, won't come back atm, Deutschland, also last seen in 2019, Ypres-2022....but yeah, no tarmac rallies having the money to run in the summer slot I guess?

[focus206]

If Ogier wins the title this year, then 9 hats off to him! All done by the rules and nothing more to say. Maybe - ,,Learn to drive!''

Yes, that's why we're criticizing the rules/calendar. If Ogier wins the title this year, it won't be because he was faster, or more reliable than the other title rivals (so far, of course). So far it's because he's had a big road advantage compared to the other title rivals, that even if Ogier DNS here and there it won't matter.
A championship in which it's better to skip rounds than to compete in all of them sounds very silly.

[AndyRAC]

Why the hell did they again put 7 pure gravel events one after another?

Because they don't know what they're doing.

How does a championship with only 2.5 manufacturers afford 14 rounds? Absolutely deluded.....10 should be the max until they get more manufacturers.

The WEC only has 8-9 rounds......and has all kinds of manufacturers.

[Backa]

Like Kalle said, everybody (last WDC's) has done sweeping and no point of whining about it anymore.

If something is bad and can be easily changed, "it is like that for long time" is not really solid counter-argument.

Whole day of sweeping makes things little more interesting when one driver is dominating but it's too big penalty in close title fights and should be reduced to morning loop and then order reversed.

And it's not one rally, Latvia and Sweden just were exceptionally bad.

I agree though that there should not be asterisks no matter who will be champion this season. Weird point system, sweeping, crashes with deers, opportunities to benefit from team orders, car issues, more or less tarmac/gravel/snow create variability but it was always part of WRC and driver still needs to have world champion talent to benefit from his good luck/bad luck of others.

[Morte66]

"The whole thing's daft
I don't know why
You have to laugh
Or else you cry"
-- Tom Hark and the Piriahnas

[denkimi]

Like Kalle said, everybody (last WDC's) has done sweeping and no point of whining about it anymore.
Neuville has had 10+ years of this advantage, haven't managed to bring it home and now ONE bad rally.. and max big problem.

If Ogier wins the title this year, then 9 hats off to him! All done by the rules and nothing more to say. Maybe - ,,Learn to drive!''
We never before had a year where the 2 best drivers in the world were doing a partial season, picking their best rally's.

Cleaning the road makes it more difficult to win against opponents who start one or 2 places behind you. It makes it impossible to win against rovanpera who starts 7th.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There's also the battle between Toyota and Hyundai to consider, both of which are now doing everything to win the Manus Title and not really helping their top guys to win the Driver's. This is why the part-timers are being used.

[deephouse]

Except if the trend continues, they should put all those part-timers in front for gravel events. Don't know if that could help a little bit, but what about zero car being any Rally1 machine, even not the newest one, or maybe some WRC machine from the past and driver by some local champion or retired driver.

[MentalParadox]

In the ridiculous eventuality that Ogier wins this year's title, I'd start thinking about a part time program if I were Tanak and Neuville... skipping their weakest rallies and let others open the road. Then watch people complaining than in some events there are 5 Rally1 cars at the start.

How about making road position be decided by your last rally result, reversed? So you won the last rally, you start first (if the next rally is on gravel) or last (if tarmac). Have a missed event count as a DNF. That way, an event skipper gains nothing and will just end up sweeping the road the moment they come back.

[WRCStan]

How about making road position be decided by your last rally result, reversed? So you won the last rally, you start first (if the next rally is on gravel) or last (if tarmac). Have a missed event count as a DNF. That way, an event skipper gains nothing and will just end up sweeping the road the moment they come back.

Can you edit that to make sense? Who's opening the road?

[MentalParadox]

Can you edit that to make sense? Who's opening the road?

Your lack of reading comprehension seems like a "you problem", not a "me problem". Your hostility is uncalled for.

[WRCStan]

Your lack of reading comprehension seems like a "you problem", not a "me problem". Your hostility is uncalled for.

Hostility inferred is a "you problem". No hostility was implied at all.

If reversing results only applies to gravel, if your last rally means the last rally results and if you got gravel and tarmac the wrong way round then I think you're on to a good idea. However, probably not as good as just mixing up the calendar.

[focus206]

Hostility inferred is a "you problem". No hostility was implied at all.

If reversing results only applies to gravel, if your last rally means the last rally results and if you got gravel and tarmac the wrong way round then I think you're on to a good idea. However, probably not as good as just mixing up the calendar.

I think he's proposing a system like this, he'll correct me if I'm wrong (I'll use only 4 drivers to make it simple)
Round 1 final classification:
1 - Tanak
2 - Neuville
3 - Ogier
4 - Evans

Round 2 starting order (gravel)
Tanak
Neuville
Ogier
Evans

or if round 2 is on asphalt:
Evans
Ogier
Neuville
Tanak

So the championship leader Tanak gets a disadvantage on round 2 to level the field, but unless he wins round 2, he won't be at the bad end of the running order in round 3, regardless if he's the championship leader or not.
In this case, I think I would be fair that if a driver DNF on round 1, he gets a good starting order on round 2, no reason to penalize a driver who already retired in previous round. If a driver DNS though, could be an idea to give him the short end of the stick and a bad road position on round 2.
Would be easier to just have a couple more asphalt round, though.