Is Horner toast at Rdbull?

[Nitrodaze]

There seems to be a non-descript inappropriate conduct in question. The grapevine suggests it involves a woman {as it always is}. Whether a cigar was involved or not is not disclosed. Due to the very non-transparent nature of how this is handled, it is looking more like a witch-hunt than an investigation. However, covertly they have tried to do this, Horner's reputation is now tainted. The lack of transparency is causing wild imaginations of what could be serious enough to warrant this sort of hidden investigation. Is it a matter of him banging one of his female underlings or are we talking rape here?

Whatever the case, he claims no wrongdoing. We have known him as Redbull's stalwart team principal for years. You may or may not like the guy, but it is hard to see him in any of the above scenarios. However, we must reserve judgment for when all the facts are released to the public.

But let us look at the worst-case scenario. What if something gross happened and Redbull did the unthinkable of sacking Horner, where does that leave the team?

I am thinking Redbull shall become a victim of mass scavenging as other Teams would systematically relieve Redbull of their best talents. Without Horner, Redbull would slowly disintegrate. Firstly, Verstappen would jump ship to Mercedes. Adrian Newey would most certainly head to Ferrari. Redbull's best engineers and designers would also get poached by various teams in the paddock. With a majority going to Mercedes and Ferrari. The rest may end up in Mclaren and Aston Martin.

All the hard work of the last ten years may dissipate leaving a Williams-like team in its wake.

The last time Ferrari won multiple construction championships, it had a French Team principal, a British Engineer and a new signing of a driver's world champion in the form of Jean Todd, Ross Brawn, and Michael Schumacher. Newey joining Fred Vassuer and Lewis Hamilton is a similar setup. This combination is very likely to be unstoppable.

If you are a betting man, l bet you would be heading to the bookies right now to wager on Ferrari's resurgence to dominate in the 2026 regulation era.

[Bagwan]

" However, we must reserve judgment for when all the facts are released to the public."

Don't bet on it being your worst case scenario .
Please .

[F1nKS]

There seems to be a non-descript inappropriate conduct in question. The grapevine suggests it involves a woman {as it always is}.

From the leaks I have read, it is indeed a woman, but not of a sexual nature. She took exception to his authoritarian leadership style. Ultimately this seems to be about an internal RB battle. It looks like Marko is going to end up beating Horner.

It was reported that RB asked Horner to resign voluntarily. He responded he did nothing wrong. Ideally for RB, they wanted Horner to voluntarily to go so they didn't have to pay him. Horner is saying, you can let me go, but you have to pay me my contract.

I expect that Friday's meeting/investigation is actually about negotiating the Horner buyout. I would say by the weekend, Horner will be out.

If RB is really concerned about the management culture - then they will go outside for their hire to replace Horner. If this is just to get Horner out, they will hire internally.

If Horner is gone, this is the beginning of the end of RB.

[F1nKS]

If Horner is gone, this is the beginning of the end of RB.

from reporting they say that investigation leakage came from the Verstappen/Marko camp.


The surfacing of the investigation was also telling. It originated from Dutch media with a source close to the Verstappen camp which began speculation that Jos Verstappen and Marko were behind it.

Two things kill great teams - complacency and ego's (and helicopter dad's)

[Matthew]

In case he goes, it would be interesting to see if Red Bull would be able to keep its dominance.

[Nitrodaze]

From the leaks I have read, it is indeed a woman, but not of a sexual nature. She took exception to his authoritarian leadership style. Ultimately this seems to be about an internal RB battle. It looks like Marko is going to end up beating Horner.

It was reported that RB asked Horner to resign voluntarily. He responded he did nothing wrong. Ideally for RB, they wanted Horner to voluntarily to go so they didn't have to pay him. Horner is saying, you can let me go, but you have to pay me my contract.

I expect that Friday's meeting/investigation is actually about negotiating the Horner buyout. I would say by the weekend, Horner will be out.

If RB is really concerned about the management culture - then they will go outside for their hire to replace Horner. If this is just to get Horner out, they will hire internally.

If Horner is gone, this is the beginning of the end of RB.

Horner can be quite an annoying moaner but for the life of me, l wonder why they still hang on to Marko. If what you say is the case, then they have underestimated the true impact of Horner departing. I can see a rude shock in the aftermath. It may not be instant but gradual over time.

I wonder if he is being pushed because of the Ford deal.

[F1nKS]

Horner can be quite an annoying moaner but for the life of me, l wonder why they still hang on to Marko. If what you say is the case, then they have underestimated the true impact of Horner departing. I can see a rude shock in the aftermath. It may not be instant but gradual over time.

I wonder if he is being pushed because of the Ford deal.

It would seem that with this slow walking, there may be an internal battle in Red Bull. Maybe the Thai owners are fighting to keep Horner.

If it is true this complaint was this, this whole thing doesn't make much sense. If they are going to fire Horner for mean words, then FIA needs to get rid FIA President Sulayem.


"It's a matter of abuse of power. For European tastes, Horner did not communicate very politely with his employee and they filed a denunciation to the Red Bull head office in Austria."

I agree with you that if Red Bull gets rid of Horner, they will be in for a rude shock in the future. I would not be surprised to see it all unravel rather quickly. Horner is Redbull.

[Sulland]

The case in question is in my book, from what I know today, something btw him and his wife.
But in a perfect business world, where very little is allowed, Redbull might see it different, and he has to go.

After 5 minutes, he will be picked up by another team, due to his wast competence i running a top team.
What teams are prepping to pick him up in your book?

[Nitrodaze]

The case in question is in my book, from what I know today, something btw him and his wife.
But in a perfect business world, where very little is allowed, Redbull might see it different, and he has to go.

After 5 minutes, he will be picked up by another team, due to his wast competence i running a top team.
What teams are prepping to pick him up in your book?

Horner being available puts a lot of pressure on many team bosses in the top teams, including Mercedes. Like Hamilton going to Ferrari, l expect a similar thing in the Team Bosses space. He is invaluable, not only for his experience but for his connections to quality engineers. The silly season would now be properly absurd as drivers and team bosses shuffle in very extra-ordinary way as a consequence.

I can see him in Aston Martin Green, actually. It would be a good fit as he has had a past relationship with Aston Martin.

[Steve Boyd]

Interesting, the time it's taking. If he was in the clear I'm pretty sure there'd have been an announcement by now. So the question is, how serious was what he did. They are probably arguing over that now. Is there a way he can be allowed to stay? If he stays what sanction will be imposed on Horner and what compensation for the victim? If he has to go, can they put him on "gardening leave" until the end of the season before he has to depart so that he can't work for anyone else until next year? We have to wait and see.

[Sulland]

If he will become perona non grata in redbull, he will be seen in all red before the end of the season. Could be sooner if all stars allign!

[F1nKS]

I have read the limited stuff people have posted (I assume it is the worst), and it is pretty tame in this world. Horner's biggest problem is his wife.

Problem also in the stuff that has been released has putting in fake stuff, which makes know what it the ground truth more difficult. There were some made up conversation between Horner and Seb that were hilarious.

The rumors where that Jos was the one who leaked the story to media, then of course after he was cleared, then it got leaked again from somebody inside the RB, and now Jos is calling for Horner to resign. So, the question has to be, what happened between Jos and Horner last year? Assuming it is Jos (or his minions) who leaked the who ordeal in the first place, they are doing it without regard for the privacy of the women who probably didn't want this story to come out in the international press (her name has been leaked now). So Jos is just as big of dirtbag as Horner.

What would be interesting - is either RB or Verstappen blow up his contract and Max goes to Mercedes. Lets see if it Adrian Newey or Max in 2025?

[Zico]

Pretty difficult situation that Red Bull find themselves in... its in both parties interests⁴ to sort it out and stay together but its looking more and more that its way beyond that possibility. If they ban Jos from the garage then Max might feel he has no RB future. If they get Horner out then Newey probably leaves with him.

Max and Newey are both key personel for the team but if you had a choice to make, who would it be?

I think I'd probably keep Horner/Newey... Jos/Max can either accept it and agree to get on for the greater good of the team or they can go elsewhere to an inferior car. I'm sure Merc would take Max.

Thoughts?

[Matthew]

Pretty difficult situation that Red Bull find themselves in... its in both parties interests⁴ to sort it out and stay together but its looking more and more that its way beyond that possibility. If they ban Jos from the garage then Max might feel he has no RB future. If they get Horner out then Newey probably leaves with him.

Max and Newey are both key personel for the team but if you had a choice to make, who would it be?

I think I'd probably keep Horner/Newey... Jos/Max can either accept it and agree to get on for the greater good of the team or they can go elsewhere to an inferior car. I'm sure Merc would take Max.

Thoughts?

Any team would love to take Max but I don't think Red Bull is let this happen at almost any cost.

[airshifter]

Hard to say what will come of all the drama, if anything. Beyond knowing the very little that is confirmed as fact, it's a crap storm of speculation that in most cases seems to be based on shaky reports from less than trustworthy sources. The way the Google Drive appeared after Horner was initially cleared leads me to think that regardless of the source it's more of a smear campaign than anything else. Someone probably wants Horner gone, but we aren't quite sure who. Maybe that will all come out in the wash.

[F1nKS]

There are rumors that Jos is working with Toto to bring Max over to Mercedes next year.


As sources in and around the paddock now believe Jos is lining his son up for the available Mercedes seat next season in a blockbuster switch.

Jos has been seen with pal and Mercedes boss Toto Wolff for more regular and cheerful chats than ever since the sexting allegations against Horner came out.

The pair were spotted together deep in conversation on several occasions at the first race of the F1 season in Bahrain as a very public feud between Jos and Horner continues to rumble on.

[Nitrodaze]

There are rumors that Jos is working with Toto to bring Max over to Mercedes next year.

I can definitely see that happening. Redbull with a Ford engine would most likely not be competitive in 2026 when the new regulations kick in. Verstappen is the sort of driver that could fill Hamilton's shoes at Mercedes. Assuming Mercedes can get their act together for the 2026 season, we are set for a battle royal between Mercedes and Ferrari. As Hamilton takes the Ferrari on a head-to-head battle with Verstappen for round two.
If this happens, then Russell's seat would be at risk from Kimi Antonelli l would think.

[Nitrodaze]

I have read the limited stuff people have posted (I assume it is the worst), and it is pretty tame in this world. Horner's biggest problem is his wife.

Problem also in the stuff that has been released has putting in fake stuff, which makes know what it the ground truth more difficult. There were some made up conversation between Horner and Seb that were hilarious.

The rumors where that Jos was the one who leaked the story to media, then of course after he was cleared, then it got leaked again from somebody inside the RB, and now Jos is calling for Horner to resign. So, the question has to be, what happened between Jos and Horner last year? Assuming it is Jos (or his minions) who leaked the who ordeal in the first place, they are doing it without regard for the privacy of the women who probably didn't want this story to come out in the international press (her name has been leaked now). So Jos is just as big of dirtbag as Horner.

What would be interesting - is either RB or Verstappen blow up his contract and Max goes to Mercedes. Lets see if it Adrian Newey or Max in 2025?

I doubt Jos would risk being sued for breach of privacy. I don't think he is that stupid. Besides, if he did, he would not find many friends in the paddock. Which team boss would want a backstabber like that in their team regardless of how well-regarded Max is? There is more to meet the eyes. It is looking more likely that Horner is probably not as innocent as he claims to be. Secondly, he may have rubbed someone influential in Redbull the wrong way and is facing the brunt of that.
Now the FIA is wading in, transparency may happen and they may have a say on the matter which might complicate things for both Redbull and Horner. The funny thing about the truth, they have a funny way of coming out into the open.

[Nitrodaze]

Pretty difficult situation that Red Bull find themselves in... its in both parties interests⁴ to sort it out and stay together but its looking more and more that its way beyond that possibility. If they ban Jos from the garage then Max might feel he has no RB future. If they get Horner out then Newey probably leaves with him.

Max and Newey are both key personel for the team but if you had a choice to make, who would it be?

I think I'd probably keep Horner/Newey... Jos/Max can either accept it and agree to get on for the greater good of the team or they can go elsewhere to an inferior car. I'm sure Merc would take Max.

Thoughts?

I don't think Adrian Newey is as warm to Max as he was to Vettel. If things go south at Redbull, l cannot see Newey and Verstappen heading in the same direction. The dynamics of their interdependency are reversed to the normal situation. Newey made Max a world champion with his car designs. Max needs Newey, Newey does not need Max when the likes of Hamilton is about. Newey in Red seems the likely and next most sensational new waiting to happen. Bigger than Max going to Mercedes.

[Nitrodaze]

Any team would love to take Max but I don't think Red Bull is let this happen at almost any cost.

If Horner is out of the door, anything can happen and would certainly happen as there would be nobody with Horner's clout to keep things in check. There would be pretenders to the job but without the credibility.

[F1nKS]

I doubt Jos would risk being sued for breach of privacy. I don't think he is that stupid. Besides, if he did, he would not find many friends in the paddock. Which team boss would want a backstabber like that in their team regardless of how well-regarded Max is? There is more to meet the eyes. It is looking more likely that Horner is probably not as innocent as he claims to be. Secondly, he may have rubbed someone influential in Redbull the wrong way and is facing the brunt of that.
Now the FIA is wading in, transparency may happen and they may have a say on the matter which might complicate things for both Redbull and Horner. The funny thing about the truth, they have a funny way of coming out into the open.

Jos is not the smartest guy. How many times has been arrested for domestic abuse for his wife and girlfriends?

Now there is a rumor that Jos has been a little cosy with this women and got angry with Horner calling her.

Now Horner is an idiot. Who tells somebody to erase his message and then really expects it to happen?

[Nitrodaze]

I think the real question is, did Horner cross a line and acted in a manner unbecoming of the team principle of a prominent F1 team? Did he just skirt the line, hence why he was found to be without fault? It is always tricky when it comes to matters involving a woman's understanding of what was going on between them and the accused. Many men have had their careers and reputations ruined by women in these situations.

It is a tricky issue to discuss without coming across as condoning the exploitation of vulnerable women in the shadow of powerful men. Hence why it is always very necessary for men in those situations to always take precautions to avoid any situation that could present an unusual and exploitative interaction with subordinate female staff or coworkers.

There is a particularly pointing indication that the situation might be unusual and raises the question of whether it was sufficiently exploitative. The outcome of the independent investigation only suggested that whatever it was that went on was not sufficiently exploitative to warrant only further action. This could also imply that the woman is this case may have acted in a manner that normalized the interaction sufficiently for there not to be anything suggesting exploitation. In this situation, it would be a simple case of a female staff acting in a manner that might be seen as encouraging unsuitable interaction between herself; a single female, and a married man at a place of work.

But the outcome may not have dispelled the notion that whatever the situation was, Horner could not be seen to have taken suitable steps to not allow an unusual interaction from taking place. All of this is pure speculation, of course, as we are not privy to the facts of the matter.

As is usually the case, the world frowns at the man in these situations. Very little consideration is given to the contribution of the woman at the center of the fiasco. As always, the man has the most to lose in these circumstances. Assuming that Redbull has not orchestrated a cover-up, if actual harm was done.

After all, Redbull is at risk of introducing long-lasting disruption to the stability of the team if they choose to oust Horner. Stability which incidentally, Horner has orchestrated from the outset. Some may venture to say it is in the best interest of Redbull to brush this matter under the carpet. Others might say, that there was sufficient opposition within Redbull to wish to oust Horner if there was enough of a case to do so. Hence may not have been a cover-up.

[airshifter]

Well once again, another turn of events so the speculation can start all over. People just want to air the dirty laundry I guess....

With the Horner and RB statements, it seems to me they are fairly confident that the right decision was made already, and that if the accuser decides to make it a legal case it won't end well for her. In either case suspending her with pay and making it clear of any appeal window through the company, they have sent a strong message they they won't settle for trial by public opinion.



And to be honest, in this day and age stating things like "it's always a woman" and "the man has the most to lose" or similar is just crap. This game has played out both ways, and women have been the ones in the hot seat as well. Not to mention have lost jobs, and other such penalties the same as men are subject to.