Verstappen - Three-time Driver World Champion

[Nitrodaze]

Once again we get to witness F1 history being made. Congratulations to Max Verstappen on winning his third F1 driver's title. 2023 Driver's World Champion!

[Nitrodaze]

Check out this article https://medium.com/motor-racing/max-verstappen-6902c342d3c9

[gm99]

Check out this article https://medium.com/motor-racing/max-verstappen-6902c342d3c9

Clearly, the author has only been following F1 for the past ten years or so.
"The problem for Verstappen is there is no multiple F1 world champion who has won multiple world championships with such ease."
What about Michael Schumacher when he finished no GP worse than third and had almost double the points of the runner-up in 2002? Or in 2004, when he won 12 out of the first 13 races and clinched the championship in August?

[The Black Knight]

Check out this article https://medium.com/motor-racing/max-verstappen-6902c342d3c9

Zero congratulations from my side. Was a walk in the park and while they continue to cheat and it is ignored I cannot feel congratulatory for him. He has zero championships as far as I'm concerned.

[Nitrodaze]

Clearly, the author has only been following F1 for the past ten years or so.
"The problem for Verstappen is there is no multiple F1 world champion who has won multiple world championships with such ease."
What about Michael Schumacher when he finished no GP worse than third and had almost double the points of the runner-up in 2002? Or in 2004, when he won 12 out of the first 13 races and clinched the championship in August?

There is that, but not over two seasons. Those early Ferrari years were very much like these Redbull years to be fair.

[The Black Knight]

There is that, but not over two seasons. Those early Ferrari years were very much like these Redbull years to be fair.


They absolutely were not. Max never came close to winning a championship and always had a really good race car. Meanwhile Schumacher won 3 races with an absolute dog of a 96 Ferrari and two years running (97/98) brought the championship to the wire with vastly inferior second best cars. The 98 McLaren with one of the best cars ever seen.

[Zico]

Zero congratulations from my side. Was a walk in the park and while they continue to cheat and it is ignored I cannot feel congratulatory for him. He has zero championships as far as I'm concerned.

Walk in the park defo no question... but how are they cheating and it being ignored?

[airshifter]

Walk in the park defo no question... but how are they cheating and it being ignored?

It's hidden deep in conspiracy theories of the Max and/or RB haters. After all, a car can't be fast and legal right?

But it's been doing on for years, fan bias drives the claims of unearned titles, favoritism on teams, never being cited by stewards, and the list goes on much longer. In reality the great drivers in great cars end up with titles, some easy to earn, some hard.

But at the end of the day, if they get the title, they get the title.

[Matthew]

No one seems to be able to compete with him and he looks to be getting better with every passing day. It won't be a surprise to see him win some more championships in the next few years.

[Used to be Starter]

No one seems to be able to compete with him and he looks to be getting better with every passing day. It won't be a surprise to see him win some more championships in the next few years.
So did Hamilton and Schumacher. In F1 the car is king and only if you have an equal car do you really compete head to head.

[Bagwan]

So did Hamilton and Schumacher. In F1 the car is king and only if you have an equal car do you really compete head to head.

And , only if you have two guys with similar driving styles do you get a real head to head battle .
Max likes a car on it's nose , and Checo can't make it work .

[The Black Knight]

Walk in the park defo no question... but how are they cheating and it being ignored?

Helmut Marko is in charge or their driver line up but is not employed by the team. He is not listed among the top 4 managers whose salary is exempt feom budget cap.

[Zico]

Helmut Marko is in charge or their driver line up but is not employed by the team. He is not listed among the top 4 managers whose salary is exempt feom budget cap.


I believe he is a 'senior advisor' rather than a manager? Whatever his role and the setup is I'm sure Red Bull will have made sure that they are within the rules.

I thought you were going to tell us about a technical infringement with the car that I hadn't heard about.

[The Black Knight]

I believe he is a 'senior advisor' rather than a manager? Whatever his role and the setup is I'm sure Red Bull will have made sure that they are within the rules.

I thought you were going to tell us about a technical infringement with the car that I hadn't heard about.

He is working with RBR every weekend directly with the team so he should be on their books as part of the budget cap. Anything else is cheating.

[Zico]

He is working with RBR every weekend directly with the team so he should be on their books as part of the budget cap. Anything else is cheating.

Do you think the FIA are stupid, incompetent, biased or on Red Bulls payroll?
If there is a loophole there, everyone else will likely be using it too.

[Matthew]

So did Hamilton and Schumacher. In F1 the car is king and only if you have an equal car do you really compete head to head.

Yes, it is about the car but it is not just about the car. Checo is driving a Red Bull too but he has only managed to win 2 races this season so far.

[Nitrodaze]

Yes, it is about the car but it is not just about the car. Checo is driving a Red Bull too but he has only managed to win 2 races this season so far.

Sorry, not a fair comment. The 2023 Redbull was built to Verstappen's specifications. After the first quarter of the season, the design of the car became unfavorable for Perez. By mid-season, he simply could not drive the car with the sort of confidence he had at the beginning of the season.

It appears Redbull sacrificed Perez's season to give Verstapenn the ideal car for him to win the championship. Perez got the Webber treatment. He was never going to be allowed to challenge Verstappen for the championship. If he was given half a chance, the scoreboard would be much different. The so-called Verstappen dominance would not be anything like we have seen.

I can say for certain that he may not have won 15 races in the season. The 2023 season is a very ugly season and l think Redbull should be ashamed. They cheated us out of a championship battle between Verstappen and Perez. It is disgusting to watch them smiling. It is equally disgusting to watch the media enthuse over what clearly appears to be a fixed championship.

There is no way for us to know if Verstappen would have won the championship or not if he had to battle Perez in a fair fight for the championship. Could Perez have found a way to tame Verstappen and win the championship without team interference? That we also do not know. What we do know is Redbull did not give Perez an equal chance to win the championship. What we watched was painfully ugly as we watched a driver struggle to find any possibility of attaining his best capability in a car that no longer suited his driving style. Perez is better than what we saw this season. He certainly is better than 250 points in a dominant Redbull.

I really hope 2024 brings about a change. Another year of this ugly Redbull approach to racing would be excruciating to watch.

[Bagwan]

Sorry, not a fair comment. The 2023 Redbull was built to Verstappen's specifications. After the first quarter of the season, the design of the car became unfavorable for Perez. By mid-season, he simply could not drive the car with the sort of confidence he had at the beginning of the season.

It appears Redbull sacrificed Perez's season to give Verstapenn the ideal car for him to win the championship. Perez got the Webber treatment. He was never going to be allowed to challenge Verstappen for the championship. If he was given half a chance, the scoreboard would be much different. The so-called Verstappen dominance would not be anything like we have seen.

I can say for certain that he may not have won 15 races in the season. The 2023 season is a very ugly season and l think Redbull should be ashamed. They cheated us out of a championship battle between Verstappen and Perez. It is disgusting to watch them smiling. It is equally disgusting to watch the media enthuse over what clearly appears to be a fixed championship.

There is no way for us to know if Verstappen would have won the championship or not if he had to battle Perez in a fair fight for the championship. Could Perez have found a way to tame Verstappen and win the championship without team interference? That we also do not know. What we do know is Redbull did not give Perez an equal chance to win the championship. What we watched was painfully ugly as we watched a driver struggle to find any possibility of attaining his best capability in a car that no longer suited his driving style. Perez is better than what we saw this season. He certainly is better than 250 points in a dominant Redbull.

I really hope 2024 brings about a change. Another year of this ugly Redbull approach to racing would be excruciating to watch.

It looks like they chose the guy they thought could win it and went with the design that made it faster .
That's one way to do it , and , although it might look bad for the guy in the other car , if he can't manage the changes as well and quickly adapt , it can work to win you a championship .
To win is the first job .

To have two drivers who can run the car equally well is dangerous for any team if they are right at the front . It's a little easier if both guys can see the advantage of the other in making the machine faster whilst pushing it up the order , but get close to the front end and egos will get in the way .

Ferrari , in the days where Michael was king is an example of the first , and I remember a lot of whining about it but they won and did it convincingly .

And Merc , with Nico and Lewis , is an example of the second where it worked , but caused a whole lot of agro for all concerned .


The thing you need to remember is that they aren't doing these changes to the car to spite Checo .
They would be happy to see him a lot closer to Max and I'm sure they are working hard to get him able to drive the thing .

[airshifter]

Yes, it is about the car but it is not just about the car. Checo is driving a Red Bull too but he has only managed to win 2 races this season so far.

Checo is a good driver, but obviously not on the level of Max. We rarely get to see the very top level drivers in the same car, and I think most teams try to keep it that way really.

At this point Sergio is tied for his most career wins in a season and is 2nd in the WDC, so overall his year isn't that bad compared to the other couple years in the RB.

[The Black Knight]

Do you think the FIA are stupid, incompetent, biased or on Red Bulls payroll?
If there is a loophole there, everyone else will likely be using it too.

We haven't been provided an explanation so given the radio silence and how easy it would be for them to close such a loophole, one must assume they are biased and/or on their payroll. It's cheating either way.

[Nitrodaze]

It looks like they chose the guy they thought could win it and went with the design that made it faster .
That's one way to do it , and , although it might look bad for the guy in the other car , if he can't manage the changes as well and quickly adapt , it can work to win you a championship .
To win is the first job .

To have two drivers who can run the car equally well is dangerous for any team if they are right at the front . It's a little easier if both guys can see the advantage of the other in making the machine faster whilst pushing it up the order , but get close to the front end and egos will get in the way .

Ferrari , in the days where Michael was king is an example of the first , and I remember a lot of whining about it but they won and did it convincingly .

And Merc , with Nico and Lewis , is an example of the second where it worked , but caused a whole lot of agro for all concerned .


The thing you need to remember is that they aren't doing these changes to the car to spite Checo .
They would be happy to see him a lot closer to Max and I'm sure they are working hard to get him able to drive the thing .

That view would hold up if there were any real competition for the championship. No team was remotely close. There were pretenders like Aston Martin and recently Mclaren. But they did not have championship-winning credentials on track.

They chose not to have Perez challenge Verstappen for the championship. That is the obvious way it has panned out.

If a team cannot handle having both their drivers race each other hard for the championship, they should run one car in the championship l think. We have been deprived of seeing what sort of campaign Perez may have been able to produce given equal machinery. And how well Verstappen would have been able to deal with the challenge in a machinery designed for both drivers to have an equal chance of winning the championship.

Aggravation is part and parcel of competition and confrontation. Redball and Verstappen clearly wanted an easy campaign but also want the same respect as the champions who had to work hard to win it in the face of stiff competition.

That is what we the fans come to F1 to see; a hard-fought championship and a triumph born out of it. If the outcome is the same as not having all the other cars on the track, then why is that respectable?

It unfortunately weakens the respectability of all of Verstappen's championship titles.

[Bagwan]

Both Gasly and Albon have recently said they feel sorry for Checo , because Max is that good .
Neither guy thinks less of Checo .

And , consider that we don't really know if they've changed the car to suit Max , or that maybe he's figured out how to drive it faster than Sergio , whos now overdriving it to try to keep up .
We don't know .

But , what I do know , is that they'd be happy to have Checo right behind Max and not half way down the field .
It sounds like that would make you happy , too .

But then , maybe not .

[Nitrodaze]

Both Gasly and Albon have recently said they feel sorry for Checo , because Max is that good .
Neither guy thinks less of Checo .

And , consider that we don't really know if they've changed the car to suit Max , or that maybe he's figured out how to drive it faster than Sergio , whos now overdriving it to try to keep up .
We don't know .

But , what I do know , is that they'd be happy to have Checo right behind Max and not half way down the field .
It sounds like that would make you happy , too .

But then , maybe not .

You missed the point about giving both drivers equal machinery to win the championship. That obviously means ensuring they can be configured to suit both drivers' driving styles for them to drive comfortably and confidently. We could not say that Perez was remotely comfortable or confident inside the Redbull. A comfortable and confident Perez was the one that won two races.