Race 16 - Singapore 2023 GP

[Nitrodaze]

https://media.formula1.com/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/v1683633963/content/dam/fom-website/2018-redesign-assets/Circuit%20maps%2016x9/Singapore_Circuit.png.transform/9col-retina/image.png


The Singapore track now has corners 16 to 19 removed to produce a high downforce layout, replaced by a short straight linking the old corner 15 to corner 20, adding a lap to the race. This is a sweatbox of a race, bumpy with high tire deg.

Verstappen has never won this race. Checo won it last year. The McLarens may go very well here. If an upset will happen, this is one of those tracks where it could. A Mclaren win would be very popular, especially if Piastri pulls it off.

Leclerc is brilliant in street circuits and could be on the podium at this race. This track may also favor the Mercedes. Mercedes is a dark horse for the race win, especially in Hamilton's hands. But Russell seems pumped in the last few races, it would be interesting to see what he is able to do.

Ricciardo is in the paddock for the race weekend. I like to be a fly on the wall in the Alpha Tauri garage to see the chemistry between Ricciardo and Lawson.

Zhou retains seat for the 2024 season

[airshifter]

Track changes as construction takes place.


https://cdn.racingnews365.com/_975xAUTO_fit_center-center_85_none/11053639/slide-1-singapore-layout_ENG.webp?v=1694443272



https://cdn.racingnews365.com/_975xAUTO_fit_center-center_85_none/11053638/slide-2-singapore-layout.webp?v=1694443273



Removing some of the tighter stuff where the cars ducked out of the stands and then back under might allow them to follow closer. Though the extra distance probably isn't enough for a passing opportunity, it might let the cars follow others closely onto the start/finish straight and make for more passing.

There are also reports that some newly paved areas have made the track smoother, so some teams can run lower than expected.


The track changes are expected to reduce track times by an estimated 20 seconds.

[Tazio]

'troll :dork:


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[F1nKS]

Liam Lawson knocks Verstappen out of Q2...

Red Bull having a bad weekend

[Tazio]

Max got spanked! ;)

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[Steve Boyd]

People involved with FOM quoted all week as saying the Red Bull-wash isn't good for the sport and now this.

Do I smell a rat?

I was convinced Bernie had a remote control to slow people down when he felt the championship needed spicing up. Has he passed it to the new promotors?

Do I need to put my tinfoil hat back on?

For the answers to these questions and many more watch the next episode of "Soap".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QejBwptSQZc

[Nitrodaze]

People involved with FOM quoted all week as saying the Red Bull-wash isn't good for the sport and now this.

Do I smell a rat?

I was convinced Bernie had a remote control to slow people down when he felt the championship needed spicing up. Has he passed it to the new promotors?

Do I need to put my tinfoil hat back on?

For the answers to these questions and many more watch the next episode of "Soap".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QejBwptSQZc

Yep very smelly rat. Much like the Mercedes rat as the FIA throws a spanner in the Redbull works. Flexi-wings is a major component of Redbull's dominance it seems.

[Nitrodaze]

Liam Lawson knocks Verstappen out of Q2...

Red Bull having a bad weekend

Yep, he is making Ricciardo very nervous, l think.

[F1nKS]

Yep, he is making Ricciardo very nervous, l think.

I would also think Yuki might be a little nervous also.

If I was Jr. Red Bulls - I would go with Ricciardo and Lawson for next year.

[airshifter]

Well that was a qually session for the books!

RB on the back foot all weekend, and both cars out in Q2. Track evolution was just massive and nobody could afford a bobble, even if the cars were right. Lawson takes the AT to Q3, and no doubt is making both Yuki and Daniel worry a bit. Once again some very tight times through the sessions, and the top 3 with just 8 hundredths covering them. For all the people thinking the new regs haven't worked, 7 of the 10 manufacturers made it into Q3.

The race should be interesting, and it's hard to say who will get it right with track and tire temps. But I won't be at all shocked to see some high tire degradation on some teams, mainly Ferrari and possibly McLaren as well. Though I'm almost certain this race will end the RB win streak, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them make it to a top 4-5 finish, and a podium is probably possible with safety car considerations.


As for the conspiracy theories of FOM and/or the TD018, I don't buy it without further proof. Singapore and other tracks have upset dominant teams in the past, and the F1 commentators (Palmer, Jacques, DC) brought up how the Merc of 2015 suffered a similar fate, being one of only two races where they couldn't score a podium and a season where they scored 10 1-2 podiums. Stranger things have happened. As for TD039 and 018, it would simply be too hard for the FOM/FIA/anyone to predict where it would put everyone, and anything aimed at one team would likely strongly impact several teams if the idea was to limit the fastest cars. Not to mention, it's just too many people that would have to keep quiet about the entire process.... I don't buy it. It's one of the few tracks that has thrown Max some curves over the years, with finishes not in line with his season. I doubt tomorrow will be his worst finish in the RB on this track, but we will see.


As for Stroll, that one could have really hurt. Good thing papa has deep pockets Lance! Timing showed he was already well beyond out of progressing in the session regardless, so pushing through the final turns just made no sense. These days most teams show the drivers delta times on the steering wheel as well, so destroying the cars to try to prove you are pushing is just senseless.

Sainz has really come together lately, and it seems he has Leclerc's number as of late. Don't get me wrong, I expect Ferrari to try to screw it up for both of them tomorrow, but Carlos might just call his own strategy again and make it come together! :laugh:

I'm real interested to see how things work out for Fred tomorrow. Not a great qually, and virtually everyone stated that the flexi wings TD was aimed primarily at AM, with their major changes being one of the exposing factors bring the issue to light. But old wing or new, Alonso can generally drive the snot out of anything put under him, and I'm not sure where they might land in the tire deg picture.





Fred starts on softs, pits early to hards just before Lance gets into the wall hard and brings out a safety car. The resulting stops of other cars leave Fred in the lead. Just imagine! :laugh:

[Nitrodaze]

I would also think Yuki might be a little nervous also.

If I was Jr. Red Bulls - I would go with Ricciardo and Lawson for next year.

Lawson is looking promising. I am not sure if he is a better option than Yuki yet. With the sort of times Lawson is putting out, which is looking better or just as good as Ricciardo has managed? Running with two young drivers at Alpha Tauri may just be the future of Redbull. I think time is running out for Riccciardo.

[Used to be Starter]

Well, that was an interesting race. Looks like Russell and Hamilton had enough hard running on the mediums that the tire change play didn't work out for higher than 3rd. Maybe they should have stayed out? Hard to believe how well Lawson is doing.

Now on to the next one.

[Nitrodaze]

The first proper race of the season. Street circuits bite if you do not have your wits about you as Russell discovers. What a race though.

[N. Jones]

Lawson is looking promising. I am not sure if he is a better option than Yuki yet. With the sort of times Lawson is putting out, which is looking better or just as good as Ricciardo has managed? Running with two young drivers at Alpha Tauri may just be the future of Redbull. I think time is running out for Riccciardo.

Lawson's position at the finish for the three races he has been in:

13th, 11th, 9th

[Nitrodaze]

Lawson's position at the finish for the three races he has been in:

13th, 11th, 9th

A very clear line of improvement. I think he has put forward a good case for keeping him. The question is do they like Ricciardo enough to get rid of Yuki?

[Nitrodaze]

Three Mclaren drivers on the podium at this race.

[F1nKS]

The first proper race of the season. Street circuits bite if you do not have your wits about you as Russell discovers. What a race though.

It was one of the funner races to watch this year. This was what I think the FIA envisioned with the rules changes.

The Russell crash was too bad. He fought the good fight and end one mistake cost him everything.

[airshifter]

The race was set up to be a tire preservation borefest.... right up until the VSC when Merc decided to pit them both and turn it into a race at the front!

With fresh tires, it looked like there might actually be a chance for a Merc double podium, even a win possibly. And I'm not sure how much Carlos called strategy vs the team, but either way it worked out in the end. Allowing Lando into DRS to keep a tail gunner probably saved him the win this race. Had Carlos tried to bolt, I think they were both going to get passed, and possibly result in a Merc 1/2. George was good at making up time, but once there couldn't get it done and ended up tossing it fighting for 2nd. I'm sure Lewis had him watching mirrors but he didn't seem to even go full defensive, even though Lewis seemed quicker. Props to George for keeping in the fight rather than settle for 3rd, but it didn't work out today.

Ferrari got it right for a change, even if it did bring Leclerc into the fray and moving backwards after the stops. He played tail gunner and let Sainz dictate the pace to keep the tires going long, and in the end it barely worked out. The RB plan didn't work out at all, and Max and Checo were both struggling after staying out. Once they got tires, things picked up at the front, but had they started on mediums and forced pace it might have forced the hand towards the front of the field earlier.

Some decent races overall that stayed quiet filling a lot of the top 10, as well as Ocon who was having a good race until the car expired.


I was glad to see Merc roll the dice, but was somewhat surprised they didn't split the strategy and leave one car out. But the gaps were there, and a low time cost stop from the VSC at least added the spice to the race.

[airshifter]

Interesting tidbit I saw posted on another forum.

Up until Singapore Lewis, Max, and Fernando were the only three drivers to score points in every race this season. With Fernando having a bad race at Singapore, now only Lewis and Max have managed it.

[Bagwan]

Interesting tidbit I saw posted on another forum.

Up until Singapore Lewis, Max, and Fernando were the only three drivers to score points in every race this season. With Fernando having a bad race at Singapore, now only Lewis and Max have managed it.

With the car being declared "undriveable" by Fred , it makes Lance look a little less feeble , and makes one wonder if that speed they had earlier was due to a too flexible design .

[Steve Boyd]

Flexi-wings is a major component of Redbull's dominance it seems.It's interesting to look at the sidepod mounted camera shots on the RB. The flexible front wing planes seem to move more that those of the competition. The vertical bearing tabs between the fixed and moving parts of the wing planes also seem larger than those on other cars. Enough to hide a mechanism (electro-magnetic?) that will limit the deflection during scrutineering but let the wing flex freely during running?

Listening to Max's complaints of bottoming on the bumpy track also makes me wonder whether the RB suspension is able get the car past the static ride-height test while letting it run closer to the ground than other teams manage and that their technique for achieving this couldn't cope with the Singapore track. Newey's aero skills letting them run close to the ground without the porpoising that others have suffered from.

[Nitrodaze]

It's interesting to look at the sidepod mounted camera shots on the RB. The flexible front wing planes seem to move more that those of the competition. The vertical bearing tabs between the fixed and moving parts of the wing planes also seem larger than those on other cars. Enough to hide a mechanism (electro-magnetic?) that will limit the deflection during scrutineering but let the wing flex freely during running?

Listening to Max's complaints of bottoming on the bumpy track also makes me wonder whether the RB suspension is able get the car past the static ride-height test while letting it run closer to the ground than other teams manage and that their technique for achieving this couldn't cope with the Singapore track. Newey's aero skills letting them run close to the ground without the porpoising that others have suffered from.

Interesting!
They certainly look very flustered. But am sure they will be back on top at the next race. But l wonder if the sharp end of the grid would be much closer henceforth. That would make for a brilliant rest of the season.


How Aston Martin has disappointed! Hamilton is now 6 points away from stealing 3rd in the championship from Alonso. Ferrari has leapfrogged Aston Martin into 3rd in the constructors championship with Mclaren closing in fast. The green machine has lost its mojo.

[The Black Knight]

It's interesting to look at the sidepod mounted camera shots on the RB. The flexible front wing planes seem to move more that those of the competition. The vertical bearing tabs between the fixed and moving parts of the wing planes also seem larger than those on other cars. Enough to hide a mechanism (electro-magnetic?) that will limit the deflection during scrutineering but let the wing flex freely during running?

Listening to Max's complaints of bottoming on the bumpy track also makes me wonder whether the RB suspension is able get the car past the static ride-height test while letting it run closer to the ground than other teams manage and that their technique for achieving this couldn't cope with the Singapore track. Newey's aero skills letting them run close to the ground without the porpoising that others have suffered from.

About ten years ago I created a post in which I made the point that RBR design their cars to pass FIA tests, they don't care about what the rules state once the tests pass. Given they've gotten away with it for ao long I see no reason why this should have changed. They are a bunch of cheats - an absolute scourge on our beloved sport.

[airshifter]

All the shots I've seen on other forums, as well as many of the tech expert types, have indicated that the flexi wing TD would impact AM more than anyone else most likely. And I haven't dug for older race shots yet, but the Merc had an obvious and new carbon reinforcement on the nose mounting point for this race. Though I'm not one for any of the deep conspiracy theories of hidden electro magnetic mechanisms (they do have inspections and scrutineering) the FIA pretty much made sure none of us will find out for sure.

Usually any changes made have to be declared. But any changes made to bring things into compliance with either TD (039 floors or 018 flexi wing/mounts) did not have to be declared. And I really don't like that approach at all. They have made a regulation tougher to pass inspection for, yet allowed anyone that was doing it previously to not be named. In reality, if the regulation without the TD didn't ban it, why not at least state who had to make changes, since the new TD would likely impact their performance?

I like when crafty engineers can fabricate solutions, but I don't like cheating. In this case they aren't letting us know who might have done either. By doing this they could have cost some teams time, when in fact nobody was really cheating. It just doesn't really make much sense to me.

[Steve Boyd]

(they do have inspections and scrutineering) Yes, they do, but if something is cleverly designed it can take a while to find. How long did it take for the F-Duct (I think that was what it was called?) to be found? Electrical connections and wires leading to the front wings coudl easily be explained away as strain gauge/load cell connections or for tyre temperature measurment. F1 (and motorsport in general) has a very long tradition of finding ways to circumvent the regulations and the teams at the top are usually the ones that are best at finding them.

[airshifter]

TD018 doesn't really deal with flexi wings, it deals more with rigid mounts and surfaces, "rubbery" materials, and intentional rotational trickery.

All wings flex, the FIA knows all wings flex, and if they pass testing they pass testing. What they trying to target is allowing the entire wing sections to rotate, drop, etc. by altering the mounting points, flexibility of the forward section of the nosecone, rear mounts, beam wing mounts to the rear uprights, and such things.

As for the Merc, I've found photos that now lead me to think that what appeared to be reinforcements might just be the contract angle of the panels on certain shots, as they look different race to race with coloration and such.

But I've also seen comparisons of other wings, including Merc. The obviously flex, the outside ends bend back some and essentially the entire wing deforms through load. This is legal per the FIA. What is not legal is allowing that flexing wing to rotate back on the mounts so it becomes more flat, even if it would mean the wing deformed less. One of the FIA articles gave an example of allowing the beam wing to rotate flatter with speed.

But to validate any conspiracy, you have to at least have some evidence. I have no evidence that RB wings are flexing any more than anyone else. TBH I think the Ferrari seems to have the most movement, and I might even review some older stuff on the McLaren, as they seemed to have a lot more "droop" rather than flex, and this might be the kind of thing the FIA are trying to target. Sadly the wing angle shots aren't used much.