Silly Season 2024

[Sulland]

Who will retire, get fired, move team, come up from lower classes before we start the 2024 season?

[er88]

Will Tanak even see out the current season?

[skarderud]

Who have contracts that ends this season?

I think M-sport will have some changes, sadly enough

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[seb_sh]

Who have contracts that ends this season?

I think M-sport will have some changes, sadly enough

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As far as I know only Neuville has a contract for next year.

[jonkka]

Rovanpera's contract is up for renewal at the end of 2023 but Toyoda said that they'll be doing everything to retain him.

[EstWRC]

Rovanpera's contract is up for renewal at the end of 2023 but Toyoda said that they'll be doing everything to retain him.

IMO he said the same when Tänaks contract started end in 2019. But Kalle isn’t that stupid to leave Toyota as Ott was

And like has been said here, only Neuville has a contract for next year out of the whole bunch, which should make the silly season interesting and make interesting moves but I feel all will stay the same

[TypeR]

I would put my bet on Cyril. It seems like he is determined to get someone toptop driver in his line-up as they are not able to win the manu title at the moment.

[jcevc]

Relation between Rovanpera and Ogier is not 100%...IMO one will go.

[mknight]

I can see Ogier doing part season in Hyundai in combination with Suninen.

Might mean Tanak will go to Toyota in case he doesn't leave.

[denkimi]

rovanpera and neuville will stay, ogier will retire completely, tanak will do a partial program with hyundai.

[Tauri_J]

I would put my bet on Cyril. It seems like he is determined to get someone toptop driver in his line-up as they are not able to win the manu title at the moment.

This. Hyundai needs to improve their lineup. Lappi works best as a 3rd driver

1 Neuville
2 ?
3 Lappi
4 Suninen/?

[steve.mandzij]

Lappi is doing the job he's been asked to do and in the conditions he's been allowed (remember Cyril said he was proud of EP for pushing in... Mexico? After he crashed but had good pace). He's a good second driver but now maybe that he's proved his pace he should relax a bit — and anyway anyone can make a pacenote error

[Tauri_J]

Noone is saying he isnt doing a good job. I'm saying theres no chance for Hyundai to win manu championship with Lappi as second option.

[mknight]

What is actually Lappi being asked for? Kinda hard to read. As mentioned in Mexico CA was (seemingly?) happy that he pushed and crashed. But then Sordo was considered a safe scorer. Now Sordo seems to be slipping. Is it still Lappis job to push?

Sure it can work for one of the drivers of the team to have that job, but then you need to pair them with "safe" points scorer. When Sordo isn't that, who can be? Hard to tell if Suninen can, likely not for all rounds. Also difficult to have part time drives as safe scorers, those are more likely to charge and risk.

Lappi can also work as safe point score if ordered to, like it seemed he was last year after Finland.

[Humber]

Are the Stellantis people Neuville is talking to here at 5.50 old buddies from the Citroen Junior WRT days?

https://youtu.be/Vk6_7HDU3e0?t=328

[steve.mandzij]

What is actually Lappi being asked for? Kinda hard to read. As mentioned in Mexico CA was (seemingly?) happy that he pushed and crashed. But then Sordo was considered a safe scorer. Now Sordo seems to be slipping. Is it still Lappis job to push?

Sure it can work for one of the drivers of the team to have that job, but then you need to pair them with "safe" points scorer. When Sordo isn't that, who can be? Hard to tell if Suninen can, likely not for all rounds. Also difficult to have part time drives as safe scorers, those are more likely to charge and risk.

Lappi can also work as safe point score if ordered to, like it seemed he was last year after Finland.Lappi is there to fight the top guys to take points away for Neuville, and when he's not crashed he's done that (or even collected the points after Neuville's own accidents). Worst case Lappi and Neuville are equally inconsistent and the third driver is always there to collect the points.

[Corcaíoch]

Noone is saying he isnt doing a good job. I'm saying theres no chance for Hyundai to win manu championship with Lappi as second option.

I would disagree slightly, Hyundai's biggest probelm with regards winning a manu tutle is Ogier being at Toyota with Rovanpera, over the course of a season I think Lappi could beat Evans with regards 2nd drivers but Ogier is an almost guaranteed few wins which is something no 3rd driver at Hyundai is offering. Admittedly Lappi also certainly needs to improve his consistency, in my opinion he has largely shown better pace than Evans this year but not the results.

[manthey]

Are the Stellantis people Neuville is talking to here at 5.50 old buddies from the Citroen Junior WRT days?

https://youtu.be/Vk6_7HDU3e0?t=328Rossell wrote on Instagram few days ago that 2 stellantis are following him this w-end

[mknight]

I would disagree slightly, Hyundai's biggest probelm with regards winning a manu tutle is Ogier being at Toyota with Rovanpera, over the course of a season I think Lappi could beat Evans with regards 2nd drivers but Ogier is an almost guaranteed few wins which is something no 3rd driver at Hyundai is offering. Admittedly Lappi also certainly needs to improve his consistency, in my opinion he has largely shown better pace than Evans this year but not the results.

I agree. Hence best Hyundai could make to secure manu chances is getting Ogier for part season.

The extra points from first are much more important. Lappi could theoretically do that...but he is not getting wins.

[Managarium]

My 2024 reading of the palm:

Toyota
Evans
Tanak
Katsuta
Ogier


Hyundai
Neuville
Rovanpera
Lappi
Suninen / Lindholm

M-Sport
Loubet
Fourmaux
Munster / anybody who can pay

[Rallyest]

My 2024 reading of the palm:

Toyota
Evans
Tanak
Katsuta
Ogier


Hyundai
Neuville
Rovanpera
Lappi
Suninen / Lindholm

M-Sport
Loubet
Fourmaux
Munster / anybody who can pay

If this turns out to be 100% correct i will personally send you box of premium estonian lager :D

[wyler]

italian media: hiunday big offer to ogier

http://www.areacorse.com/hyundai-a-caccia-di-ogier/

[mknight]

We already discussed that it could be very good idea for Hyundai to do this.

So moving on in the speculation. What would Toyota do if that is the case?

- Get Tanak

- "Nothing", letting Katsuta drive more and maybe offering a few outings to Pajari while he drives Rally2 car

- Solberg sharing with Katsuta (but they are mostly good on similar rallies). Also with Pajari seemingly set to go to Toyota having both might be an issue.

- Mikkelsen is good on same rallies as Ogier (hard to say if "good enough"), but Toyota has seemingly never been interested in him during the multiple opportunities in the past.

[Managarium]

If this turns out to be 100% correct i will personally send you box of premium estonian lager :D

https://i.postimg.cc/0N6tW4Wz/46328714.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Sulland]

Too many options still for Toyota and Hyundai, to conclude.

But Ford need to come up with a better lineup than the two frenchmen.

[Jarek Z]

My 2024 reading of the palm:

M-Sport
Loubet
Fourmaux
Munster / anybody who can pay

You are too cruel! Show some mercy to Ford. With such lineup they would quit after 3 rallies!

[mknight]

Sadly I think that's the most likely lineup.

Top drivers like Tanak will avoid them due to their reliability.
MSport doesn't want to pay "2nd best" drivers (their own words in 2022).
The best young/talented drivers like Pajari will rather go to Toyota or Hyundai. Even Lindholm did that and I don't count him as one of the best talents. Drivers with money rather pay for a Skoda at Toksport (Greensmith, Gryazin).

So that leaves 2nd best young drivers with money...and you get exactly the listed lineup. At best maybe they will run Loeb on 2-3 rallies.

[tommeke_B]

You are too cruel! Show some mercy to Ford. With such lineup they would quit after 3 rallies!

It's not cruel, actually very optimistic as they're still in the list...

[seb_sh]

I think Tanak will stick around for one more season at MSport, I presume they will bring some updates to make the car suit him for next year.

Toyota just need to hold on to Kalle and Elfyn, the 3rd car is not that important if you have those two.

Hyundai needs to pull something out of it's sleeve. Lappi was quite a good move but as it seems at the moment they don't have a potential WDC in their team. Maybe if they improve the car the balance will change. The Ogier rumor is interesting but I'm not convinced it would be a good move for either of them. I don't see Kalle switching but maybe they could lure Evans...

[EstWRC]

You are too cruel! Show some mercy to Ford. With such lineup they would quit after 3 rallies!

In 2021 they had Greensmith for a full season and Suninen/Fourmaux sharing the car with Teemu quitting before the Acropolis rally and Fourmaux doing rest of the rallies.

[lmmjvss]

Cant we start to beg Ott and Petter on social media to build the RedGrey/PetterSolberg racing team?
Ott and Oli. That'd be so rad.

And I still hope Mikkelsen finds a Toyota seat in case Kalle goes to Hyundai (??)

[skarderud]

Petter is already building new facilites to house a future possible factoryteam, but if he actually have a deal, i don't know.

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[trykmann]

Petter is already building new facilites to house a future possible factoryteam, but if he actually have a deal, i don't know.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via TapatalkIn my opinion he probably has some deals, because it would not be wise to make such investment without any agreements.

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[EstWRC]

In my opinion he probably has some deals, because it would not be wise to make such investment without any agreements.

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I was thinking the same thing

[SubaruNorway]

In my opinion he probably has some deals, because it would not be wise to make such investment without any agreements.

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It's being rented out to other companies for now

[becher]

In my opinion he probably has some deals, because it would not be wise to make such investment without any agreements.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
Thats what I'm wondering about.There is this noise coming from there about a factory effort, but so far nothing concrete. If there is a manufacturer eyeing to join WRC with Solberg as the operating team/constructor who could it be?

[skarderud]

Thats what I'm wondering about.There is this noise coming from there about a factory effort, but so far nothing concrete. If there is a manufacturer eyeing to join WRC with Solberg as the operating team/constructor who could it be?Subaru maybe, they still have good contact.
If the new Rally1 rules is for bigger cars than today, of course.

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[AMSS]

Thats what I'm wondering about.There is this noise coming from there about a factory effort, but so far nothing concrete. If there is a manufacturer eyeing to join WRC with Solberg as the operating team/constructor who could it be?

And also it`s not published yet who will handle Toyotas Rally 2 effort internationally, they are looking for a outside team to handle it

[becher]

Subaru maybe, they still have good contact.
If the new Rally1 rules is for bigger cars than today, of course.

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Rally1 are prototypes, potentially shrunken look a likes from bigger road cars, so it is especially conceived to allow unsuitabily large cars to compete so that is certainly not stoping them.

[rp]

And also it`s not published yet who will handle Toyotas Rally 2 effort internationally, they are looking for a outside team to handle it

There will be many teams. Probably TGS, Printsport Racing and Rautio Motorsport.

[AMSS]

Domestically in Finland yes, but they are looking for some team to run the international program like Toksport from what I understand

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai looking to sign Ogier ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwKZmsVM4AT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[Rallyest]

Hyundai looking to sign Ogier ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwKZmsVM4AT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Would be interesting to see Ogier share a team with Neuville. I mean, they can tell Lappi to let Neuville past, but wonder if they have the balls to tell the same to an 8 time world champion. this is probably one of the key aspects in the so called contract if there even exists one. just speculating still, but that would be good for team bad for Neuville :D

[focus206]

Would be interesting to see Ogier share a team with Neuville. I mean, they can tell Lappi to let Neuville past, but wonder if they have the balls to tell the same to an 8 time world champion. this is probably one of the key aspects in the so called contract if there even exists one. just speculating still, but that would be good for team bad for Neuville :D

But does Ogier want to go for full season? If yes, I'd be surprised Toyota wouldn't give him a full time car. If not, then clearly Hyundai values the manufacturer title more than the drivers title, as Ogier will hardly slow down for Neuville but can't compete for the championship either.
Remains to be seen if Ogier fits in with the Hyundai. The only time he drove a car that was difficult to drive and set up was the C3 and we know what happened...

[rallyfiend]

If you believe the rumours of the conflict between Ogier and Kalle during Safari, Toyota don't want him anymore....

They've had enough.

[becher]

If you believe the rumours of the conflict between Ogier and Kalle during Safari, Toyota don't want him anymore....

They've had enough.
That conflict would be Ogier wanted team orders but Toyota didn't?

[bandit12]

That conflict would be Ogier wanted team orders but Toyota didn't?
Or Kalle eating last croissant that Ogier wanted?

[rallyfiend]

That conflict would be Ogier wanted team orders but Toyota didn't?

Yes.

Ogier (part time programme) created a bad environment that Kalle (championship contender) would dare to keep challenging for the win.

[cali]

If you believe the rumours of the conflict between Ogier and Kalle during Safari, Toyota don't want him anymore....

They've had enough.Oh don't stop here now, we want details hehe

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[EstWRC]

Ogier to Hyundai and Tänak to Toyota :P

[vekkuli]

Ogier to Hyundai and Tänak to Toyota :PKalle and Ott at Toyota would be great for the championship. Should be great battle.

Lähetetty minun SM-G970F laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[rp]

If both driving Hyundai Neuville will not accept if Ogier wants to win & he is 2nd.

[Managarium]

Maybe Hyundai is fed up with Neuville?
They give him chanse for 10 years. They build him a car he wanted and he never become champion.

[focus206]

Maybe Hyundai is fed up with Neuville?
They give him chanse for 10 years. They build him a car he wanted and he never become champion.

Neuville wanted an unreliable car? Doubt it. Not even Tanak was able to fight for the championship with Hyundai, mostly because of unreliability. I'm surprised any of you believe Hyundai is angry at any of their drivers when they know their car isn't up there with Toyota.
Moreover, even if they're fed up, signing Ogier part-time changes nothing, apart from a better shot at the manufacturer title. Only a full time Ogier would be a contender.

[bluuford]

Nice ideas, imagine Hyundai has full time Neuville, Lappi and Ogier starting with good road positions in gravel +some asphalt events and some other driver sharing his car as a third driver for some events (Sweden, Finland, may-be Poland, maybe something more). And you have Kalle, Elfyn and Taka.. In my view, that would give team title to Hyundai, not easily, but on paper its would be their title to loose.

[Kenneth]

In 20 and 21 Hyundai wasn't unreliable. 22 was something else for sure, but still not that bad.

[focus206]

In 20 and 21 Hyundai wasn't unreliable. 22 was something else for sure, but still not that bad.

22 was not that bad? Infinite amount of gremlins for both Neuville and Tanak in the first half of the season. They got better in the second half, but too little too late.
20 and 21 Hyundai was still definitely more unreliable than Toyota, especially with those suspensions easily collapsing.

[EstWRC]

Nice ideas, imagine Hyundai has full time Neuville, Lappi and Ogier starting with good road positions in gravel +some asphalt events and some other driver sharing his car as a third driver for some events (Sweden, Finland, may-be Poland, maybe something more). And you have Kalle, Elfyn and Taka.. In my view, that would give team title to Hyundai, not easily, but on paper its would be their title to loose.

so no Ott in Toyota then :D

[becher]

Or Kalle eating last croissant that Ogier wanted?

Asking the important questions here: Are Finish-Japanese teams allowed to serve croissants?

[bluuford]

so no Ott in Toyota then :D

Or take it in an opposite way...they (Toyota) needs someone as good as Ott for next season, if they dont dont want to loose title :P I know nothing about next season, I am on vocation right now (actually I was just preparing for Greece) ;)

[1988senna]

Hyundai looking to sign Ogier ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwKZmsVM4AT/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

For my lack of pro knowledge, What's the jokers mean for Rally car, Any more official explain?
How can team use jokers to improve the cars

[Brynmor Pierce]

The rumors I’ve heard are..

Ott to Toyota
Elfyn to M-Sport (but this was before his two wins this season)
Seb to Hyundai

[EstWRC]

For my lack of pro knowledge, What's the jokers mean for Rally car, Any more official explain?
How can team use jokers to improve the cars

Here you go https://www.wrcwings.tech/2023/08/16/2023-rally1-homologation-jokers-in-9-questions/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The rumors I’ve heard are..

Ott to Toyota
Elfyn to M-Sport (but this was before his two wins this season)
Seb to Hyundai

Interesting.

Ogier to Hyundai would be the catalyst. Toyota would then fear the competition and move to strengthen with Tanak. Evans would be the likely casualty and move to M-Sport

[TypeR]

The rumors I’ve heard are..

Ott to Toyota
Elfyn to M-Sport (but this was before his two wins this season)
Seb to Hyundai
No way ,,Evans to M-Sport'' talks after 3 first rallies of the season.. :D (+ M-Sport fully concentrated on Tanak)

[doubled1978]

No way ,,Evans to M-Sport'' talks after 3 first rallies of the season.. :D (+ M-Sport fully concentrated on Tanak)

Mate, if Bryn has heard it, I would believe there is something in it.

Seb to Hyundai is really interesting.

[EstWRC]

The rumors I’ve heard are..

Ott to Toyota
Elfyn to M-Sport (but this was before his two wins this season)
Seb to Hyundai

I was thinking the same couple of months back but now it seems Elfyn has finally found something with the car and can’t see him leaving and I can’t see why Toyota wouldn’t offer him a new contact.

Doesn’t still rule Tänak out at Toyota especially if Ogier leaves

[1988senna]

Is the result of Monte-Carlo and Kenya make Kella unhappy with Ogier? Maybe Kella feel Ogier should let him pass for more points. Maybe Ogier feel not as comfortable as usual in Toyota in the first half season , So that he start to chase much more money with Hyundai

[seb_sh]

here's a thought, no rumor or prediction just thinking what a fun 2024 would be:

Toyota: Rovanpera, Tanak, Evans + Katsuta (4th car)
Hyundai: Ogier, Neuville, Lappi + Suninen (4th car)

Leaves Ford on survival mode again but I think it would be a mega fight.

[EstWRC]

here's a thought, no rumor or prediction just thinking what a fun 2024 would be:

Toyota: Rovanpera, Tanak, Evans + Katsuta (4th car)
Hyundai: Ogier, Neuville, Lappi + Suninen (4th car)

Leaves Ford on survival mode again but I think it would be a mega fight.

I’m so praying for this. Would be epic

[rp]

I’m so praying for this. Would be epic

Then there would be three drivers fighting for the title (Ogier, Tänak & Rovanperä), three other for the wins & podiums (Evans, Neuville & Lappi) and some other Rally1 drivers also. Surely Katsuta & Suninen, maybe Lindholm, Fourmaux, Loubet, Solberg, Greensmith some rounds at least.

M-Sport had their chance during this year and failed badly, so better to have Tänak driving Toyota again.

[wyler]

i really cannot believe tanak and rovanpera in the same team.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Does Ogier want to come back full-time again ? He seemed pretty sure after he stopped that he would just do his favourite events.

[jcevc]

Does Ogier want to come back full-time again ? He seemed pretty sure after he stopped that he would just do his favourite events.

I am not so sure anymore, as he wanted to do Finland this year...if we believe official statements.

[Rallyest]

i really cannot believe tanak and rovanpera in the same team.

Well, since Toyota is very proud and loud about their No team order policy i can see that happening, also Manu championship wise Evans Tänak Rovanperä would be one hell of a team

[wyler]

Well, since Toyota is very proud and loud about their No team order policy i can see that happening, also Manu championship wise Evans Tänak Rovanperä would be one hell of a team

yeah, but that clashes with the ogier vs rovanpera argument discussed before.
i think the no order policy is possible when the driver are not really level, even for the slightest...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I am not so sure anymore, as he wanted to do Finland this year...if we believe official statements.

If he was that keen to return to doing the full season he could've arranged it with Toyota. After all he was leading the Championship earlier this season despite doing less events than anyone.

[janneppi]

If Ogier were to drive a full season he would have to be prepared to start the fridays on a poor start position in gravel rallies.
He did that for 10 years and complained about it loudly everytime. :D
I don't think wants that anymore.

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[1988senna]

yeah, but that clashes with the ogier vs rovanpera argument discussed before.
i think the no order policy is possible when the driver are not really level, even for the slightest...


Is the clash make Kella and the whole team unhappy for Ogier? I think Kenya is the key point right,Maybe Toyota
feel Ogier should let Kella pass by .But Ogier want to prove he is still the king that can't beat by anyone

[trykmann]

Toyota team has many times pointed out how they are against any team orders. Still I also believe the team would have liked if Ogier would have given the win to Kalle, who is a championship contender.

If both would be driving for the championship, then the better driver will win.

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[janneppi]

Wasn't the Kenya "order" an ask to drivers to maintain position? With Ogier leading and Rovanperä second.

The last public team order from Toyota is to Rovanperä in Monza two years ago when he was told to bring team points when Ogier and Evans were fighting for WDC.

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[trykmann]

Ogiers last thoughts in the end are interesting and making me suspicious.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0uXatrETfBQ&si=PTRfKn4MH6G37Mw4

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[lmmjvss]

Would you fellas be fine with WRC having one or two "rally sprints" on the calendar? For the sake of better promotion and to try "different" stuff?

[EstWRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/will-there-be-any-wrc-driver-moves-for-2024/

Nothing really interesting said in the article. Except I was left thinking why he wrote it and especially mentioning Tänak more than others…

[TypeR]

Ogiers last thoughts in the end are interesting and making me suspicious.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0uXatrETfBQ&si=PTRfKn4MH6G37Mw4

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,,What is nice to see.. that I still have great moments coming and maybe there are still some very emotional one coming. Maybe the best one is still to come.''

[EstWRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/will-there-be-any-wrc-driver-moves-for-2024/

Nothing really interesting said in the article. Except I was left thinking why he wrote it and especially mentioning Tänak more than others…

and more rumors about the same topic https://as-com.translate.goog/motor/mas_motor/hyundai-quiere-a-ogier-y-rovanpera-y-toyota-a-tanak-n/?ssm=TW_CC&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Seems the silly season really started now :)

[1988senna]

and more rumors about the same topic https://as-com.translate.goog/motor/mas_motor/hyundai-quiere-a-ogier-y-rovanpera-y-toyota-a-tanak-n/?ssm=TW_CC&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Seems the silly season really started now :)

Still can't understand why Kella want to leave .

What do this sentence mean " but the fact that the headquarters of his current team, Toyota, is in his city, Jyvaskyla, in addition to the close ties with the Japanese brand that took him to the top, could be an impediment to change."

[trykmann]

Still can't understand why Kella want to leave .

What do this sentence mean " but the fact that the headquarters of his current team, Toyota, is in his city, Jyvaskyla, in addition to the close ties with the Japanese brand that took him to the top, could be an impediment to change."Kalle probably will stay, but for moving the only reason would be money. Think in the other perspective, Kalle is a soon to be 2x world champion and is still in his early twenties. Why not make the switch if you are offered a significant amount more money.

He could drive with Hyundai for two seasons and earn more millions than in Toyota. After this he still would young and the world would still be open.

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[Päss1928]

Kalle to Hyundai would be even more stupid than Tänak to Hyundai in 2020, but Ogier to Hyundai sounds like a real possibility. He doesn't want to be the 2nd driver in Toyota (even if doing part season), but dominating Thierry in a new team while also getting wins with yet another manufacturer, for possibly more money, sounds like a reasonable deal in my opinion.

[dck1989]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/othersport/arid-41211607.html

[1988senna]

Kalle probably will stay, but for moving the only reason would be money. Think in the other perspective, Kalle is a soon to be 2x world champion and is still in his early twenties. Why not make the switch if you are offered a significant amount more money.

He could drive with Hyundai for two seasons and earn more millions than in Toyota. After this he still would young and the world would still be open.

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So What's the current Toyota salary for Kella and how much can Hyundai offer to him

[1988senna]

Kalle to Hyundai would be even more stupid than Tänak to Hyundai in 2020, but Ogier to Hyundai sounds like a real possibility. He doesn't want to be the 2nd driver in Toyota (even if doing part season), but dominating Thierry in a new team while also getting wins with yet another manufacturer, for possibly more money, sounds like a reasonable deal in my opinion.

According to the rumour ,The current one event from Toyota to Ogier is 0.5million euro .So can Hyundai give Ogier 0.8 million ?

[janneppi]

What do this sentence mean " but the fact that the headquarters of his current team, Toyota, is in his city, Jyvaskyla, in addition to the close ties with the Japanese brand that took him to the top, could be an impediment to change."

Jyväskylä is Kalle's home town where his family lives. Factory days are easier. He does officially live in Monaco so it's not so important.

Toyota has been involved with him in some way since 2016 so they have a good history.

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[Duvel]

Anybody know when the 2024 calander wil be public?

And what can we expect?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak return to Hyundai ?

https://www.rallit.fi/onko-tassa-ott-tanakin-seuraava-osoite-vaikka-esitat-vastalauseen-etta-siella-poltettiin-sillat-ja-revittiin-korvalehtia-irti/

[denkimi]

Tanak return to Hyundai ?

https://www.rallit.fi/onko-tassa-ott-tanakin-seuraava-osoite-vaikka-esitat-vastalauseen-etta-siella-poltettiin-sillat-ja-revittiin-korvalehtia-irti/
Unless he can go to toyota that would be the smartest move he can make.

[EstWRC]

I dont know, the car now has moved even more away how he likes it, since Lappi came and having similar style to Neuville. Yeah its more reliable

Its just purely their guess anyway in the article and ofc finns rule out that Ott would join Toyota as long as Kalle is there

[trykmann]

I dont know, the car now has moved even more away how he likes it, since Lappi came and having similar style to Neuville. Yeah its more reliable

Its just purely their guess anyway in the article and ofc finns rule out that Ott would join Toyota as long as Kalle is thereThey also rule out any movements from Toyota.

I still believe the possibility of Ogier joining Hyundai is quite high.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[Kenneth]

https://ralli.ee/pierre-louis-loubet-ford-toenaoliselt-jargmisel-aastal-ei-jatka/

Translated by Google Translator:

Pierre-Louis Loubet: "Ford will probably not continue next year!"

Once again, the season has reached the point where M-Sport has to find funding and new tricks for next year to continue the road to the World Rally Championship with the Ford Puma Rally1.

Ott Tänak's teammate Pierre-Louis Loubet, who has been with M-Sport for the second year, admitted to the French publication that the situation of Malcolm Wilson's team is critical at the moment. According to the Frenchman, we will no longer find the M-Sport team on next year's WRC calendar.

"There will be only two teams in the WRC next year. We showed good speed, but Ford has little chance to continue in the World Championship. The teams must inform the FIA ​​of their decision by the end of September at the latest, and then we will know more precisely. The promoter wants each team to add one car. Toyota already has four, and Hyundai could also put out a fourth in the best case scenario. Would I be in that scenario too? I don't know," said Loubet.

"Ford is now focusing on endurance rallying and has cut WRC funds. Ford has actually been the team's sponsor and partner all along, but he no longer invests as much as before," admitted the Corsican in an interview with a French newspaper.

[EstWRC]

turns out its fake news or Millener just trying to save the fire

https://twitter.com/RallyeSport/status/1699415366311510338

Following the sharing of the interview of @PL_Loubetin Corse Matin,
@richmillener told us that the Frenchman had not made these comments #WRC . Sorry
@MSportLtd

[seb_sh]

turns out its fake news or Millener just trying to save the fire

https://twitter.com/RallyeSport/status/1699415366311510338

Following the sharing of the interview of @PL_Loubetin Corse Matin,
@richmillener told us that the Frenchman had not made these comments #WRC . Sorry
@MSportLtd

Edit: Could be fake news could be a case of no smoke without fire, we'll see...

Maybe plan B is to go with Fourmaux to W2RC

[EstWRC]

So like some of you have guessed here. Why Petter is building the facilities

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/subaru-linked-to-wrc-return/

[seb_sh]

That would make the spaceframe chassis worth it but i'll believe it when i see it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It would be great to see a new, or returning, manufacturer in WRC.

But Subaru, if they're using a re-badged Toyota and have their support and engine, its not really the same.

How independent would the team be from their 'sponsor' ?

[macebig]

307 and Xsara had the same engine block, too. It's not unprecedented. If there is real interest from FHI about returning, why not?

[becher]

Lets face it a Yaris with a different body would be enough for all wouldn't it?

[TypeR]

Leaked prototype of rally1 Subaru

https://www.upload.ee/image/15661732/FB_IMG_1694114820074.jpg

[EstWRC]

Tänak: my career will continue

"My contract was only for this year. I have thought about continuing my career, and soon it will be clear where. Nothing has been decided yet, so there is no need to continue to talk about these rumors," Ilta-Sanomat reports Tänak

https://sport.postimees.ee/7850452/ott-tanak-minu-karjaar-jatkub

[skarderud]

Tänak, Mikkelsen and Solberg to subaru:)

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[denkimi]

Lets face it a Yaris with a different body would be enough for all wouldn't it?
having 6 toyota's would also be enough. perhaps even better, because they would be all in equally good cars then.

[bomber21]

Tänak, Mikkelsen and Solberg to subaru:)

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk
That would be a dream

[Managarium]

TÄNAK IN HYUNDAI
Ott Tänak could be close to a return to Hyundai for the 2024 season.
It is no mystery that the relationship between Tänak and M-Sport has taken a turn for the worse and that the Estonian driver has every possibility of not renewing his contract with the English team at the end of 2023.
Hyundai, on the other hand, is looking to hire a second top driver to join Neuville and Esapekka Lappi. The team first tried negotiations with Kalle Rovanperä and then with Sebastien Ogier without however finding success.
Undoubtedly Tänak is a top driver and the adequate economic offer can arrive.
In the second part of the 2022 season, Tänak expressed his desire to leave Hyundai and in fact moved to M-Sport.
His return would seem possible thanks to the figure of Cyril Abiteboul, Hyundai team principal, who arrived at the start of the current season.
The negotiation between Ott Tänak and Hyundai Motorsport could already be at an advanced stage.
The news was released by Areacorse.com

[TypeR]

Solberg's plans:
1) Find a Rally1 seat
2) Make a privet Rally2 team (w Monster Energy)
3) Continue with Toksport

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/solberg-dreaming-of-rally1-return

[wyler]

Solberg's plans:
1) Find a Rally1 seat
2) Make a privet Rally2 team (w Monster Energy)
3) Continue with Toksport

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/solberg-dreaming-of-rally1-return

guess the realistic order is upside down

[skarderud]

guess the realistic order is upside downProbably yes, but IF subaru actually is planning for a comeback, AND Petter is building facilites for that, a own Rally2 team would make very much sense as a warm-up for what to come.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[TypeR]

Probably yes, but IF subaru actually is planning for a comeback, AND Petter is building facilites for that, a own Rally2 team would make very much sense as a warm-up for what to come.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk
Own facilities and Rally2 team with new Toyota wrc2 car would sound logical then..?

[wyler]

Probably yes, but IF subaru actually is planning for a comeback, AND Petter is building facilites for that, a own Rally2 team would make very much sense as a warm-up for what to come.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

don't get me wrong, i'd be happy for that!

[skarderud]

Own facilities and Rally2 team with new Toyota wrc2 car would sound logical then..?Good point!

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[er88]

With the way Hyundai seem reinvested in the WRC, and the continued expansion of their technical staff etc, it wouldn't surprise me if Cyrll pushes the boat out to have a lineup consisting of Neuville, Tanak and Ogier.

Whether that is Ogier sharing a 4th car for another part season, or he can be tempted back for a full season, who knows. Maybe they wont have money for all 3, but you can be sure Abiteboul will be asking the question to the big bosses in Korea......

[wyler]

With the way Hyundai seem reinvested in the WRC, and the continued expansion of their technical staff etc, it wouldn't surprise me if Cyrll pushes the boat out to have a lineup consisting of Neuville, Tanak and Ogier.

Whether that is Ogier sharing a 4th car for another part season, or he can be tempted back for a full season, who knows. Maybe they wont have money for all 3, but you can be sure Abiteboul will be asking the question to the big bosses in Korea......

rumors are ogier already refused and continuing with toyota.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

With the way Hyundai seem reinvested in the WRC, and the continued expansion of their technical staff etc, it wouldn't surprise me if Cyrll pushes the boat out to have a lineup consisting of Neuville, Tanak and Ogier.

Whether that is Ogier sharing a 4th car for another part season, or he can be tempted back for a full season, who knows. Maybe they wont have money for all 3, but you can be sure Abiteboul will be asking the question to the big bosses in Korea......

I'd be amazed if Ogier went to Hyundai when Toyota has the best car and a settled team environment.

Tanak going back there has a better chance and he will be the key to any other team moves, rather than Ogier.

[macebig]

If Ogier is still interested in driving LeMans with a Hypercar (or a LMDh), he's probably leaving Toyota since they closed that door last year.

[manthey]

If Ogier is still interested in driving LeMans with a Hypercar (or a LMDh), he's probably leaving Toyota since they closed that door last year.

he needs more time to practice and improve. he is a superb driver but one season was not enough also for him.
also toyota know that

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe Ogier could move to Hyundai to complete the set of driving for every possible WRC team ! ;)

[AndyRAC]

he needs more time to practice and improve. he is a superb driver but one season was not enough also for him.
also toyota know that

Whilst he's a multiple WRC champion, it's also possible that he's just not suited to Endurance circuit racing. He wasn't quick, and was making mistakes....Toyota will have the data, and will know whether he's capable of improving. Not all top drivers are versatile.

[1988senna]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/ogier-no-reason-to-change-anything-for-2024-amid-hyundai-wrc-rumours/10522465/

So the rumour is over? If Hyundai can't afford much more salary than Toyota, There is really no reason for Ogier to move

How about Rovanpera, I find the current salary is 600000 euro per season??

[focus206]

Whilst he's a multiple WRC champion, it's also possible that he's just not suited to Endurance circuit racing. He wasn't quick, and was making mistakes....Toyota will have the data, and will know whether he's capable of improving. Not all top drivers are versatile.

If Ogier wanted to keep chasing a hypercar seat for Le Mans, he could have completed last season, instead of leaving the LMP2 team after Le Mans. So I think he either understood he's not quick enough for hypercar (even though he could maybe find an agreement with the slower hypercar teams such as Glickenhaus or ByKolles) or he's so arrogant to believe he doesn't need practice in LMP2 and is ready for a hypercar seat. I think the first option is more plausible.

[seb_sh]

If Ogier wanted to keep chasing a hypercar seat for Le Mans, he could have completed last season, instead of leaving the LMP2 team after Le Mans. So I think he either understood he's not quick enough for hypercar (even though he could maybe find an agreement with the slower hypercar teams such as Glickenhaus or ByKolles) or he's so arrogant to believe he doesn't need practice in LMP2 and is ready for a hypercar seat. I think the first option is more plausible.

In the interviews he was very self critical at that time so I think he felt he was out of place. He completed Le Mans so he can put a checkmark on that and return to rally.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak in talks with all teams...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/tanak-in-talks-but-wrc-2024-future-yet-to-be-decided/10522758/

[rallyfiend]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/ogier-no-reason-to-change-anything-for-2024-amid-hyundai-wrc-rumours/10522465/

So the rumour is over? If Hyundai can't afford much more salary than Toyota, There is really no reason for Ogier to move

How about Rovanpera, I find the current salary is 600000 euro per season??

I think you've missed a '0' off that number....

Then there are win / podium bonuses on top of that...

[rp]

I think you've missed a '0' off that number....

Then there are win / podium bonuses on top of that...

No. It´s not that level yet. Next contract (starting 2024) is the first when there is a lot of 0 numbers.

[TypeR]

Lol..

Ofcourse it is already on that ,,six-zero'' level from the beginning..
Kalle is and has been a long term investment fom Toyota, that paid off better than anybody could have thought.
I believe that he was offered quite a ,,blank check'' from Hyundai for next year(.s).

[1988senna]

No. It´s not that level yet. Next contract (starting 2024) is the first when there is a lot of 0 numbers.

Here you can find the basic salary for Kella is 350000 in 2022, as Ogier is 2000000 ,Huge difference in that time ,And even Kella got the title Not too much rise for his salary ,Just 600000, That's why there have the rumour between Kella and Hyundai

https://www.sportspayouts.com/wrc/kalle-rovanpera-salary-contract/

[bandit12]

.... Kella ....

https://www.sportspayouts.com/wrc/kalle-rovanpera-salary-contract/

would you take a moment and read this article yourself? for example, how to spell Rovanpera's first name correctly?

[1988senna]

would you take a moment and read this article yourself? for example, how to spell Rovanpera's first name correctly?

Is that key point? No matter Kella or Kalle, we know it's Rovanpera, The key point is why the basic salary is such fewer compare to Ogier's 2.5 million ,Neuville's 2 million or Tanak's 1.7 milion. well maybe different website have different source.

[EstWRC]

Interesting and also not so interesting answers from Cyril

https://www-rallit-fi.translate.goog/miten-kay-esapekka-lapille-hyundain-tallipaallikko-vastaa-kuumiin-kysymyksiin/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

By his answers it seems it’s Evans or Tänak cause we know Kalle and Ogier said no.

[bandit12]

Is that key point? No matter Kella or Kalle, we know it's Rovanpera, The key point is why the basic salary is such fewer compare to Ogier's 2.5 million ,Neuville's 2 million or Tanak's 1.7 milion. well maybe different website have different source.

Yes, yes. That famous F1 driver Ayrton Sanne da Salvo....

[rp]

Lol..

Ofcourse it is already on that ,,six-zero'' level from the beginning..
Kalle is and has been a long term investment fom Toyota, that paid off better than anybody could have thought.
I believe that he was offered quite a ,,blank check'' from Hyundai for next year(.s).

Yes he has been. But Kalle´s current contract is valid at the end of 2023 and last year was not helping him. Of course he got some bonus when winning events and WRC title.

The next contract starting from 2024 is the first one when the big money (a lot of millions) is coming.

[cali]

Drivers have winning bonuses and sometimes they can earn more when winning

Sent from my CPH2493 using Tapatalk

[rallyfiend]

Is that key point? No matter Kella or Kalle, we know it's Rovanpera, The key point is why the basic salary is such fewer compare to Ogier's 2.5 million ,Neuville's 2 million or Tanak's 1.7 milion. well maybe different website have different source.

Those numbers are all rubbish. I wouldn't trust anything that website says.

Those boys are all earning MUCH more than that...

[flat_right]

https://www-is-fi.translate.goog/ralli/art-2000009877013.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

Latvala says that there is a gentleman's agreement that one team should not have all world champions and this is the reason why Ott won't join Toyota.

[TypeR]

so Evans can't win the title..? :D

[spyros]

so Evans can't win the title..? :D


Very good one, or he can win and then leaves Toyota.

[wyler]

so Evans can't win the title..? :D

he can, but it's not already a winner.

[1988senna]

https://www-is-fi.translate.goog/ralli/art-2000009877013.html?_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

Latvala says that there is a gentleman's agreement that one team should not have all world champions and this is the reason why Ott won't join Toyota.

The gentlemen's agreement is a real paper legal agreement that can restrict any team to hire all champion drivers or just the moral agreement obey by all teams

[wyler]

The gentlemen's agreement is a real paper legal agreement that can restrict any team to hire all champion drivers or just the moral agreement obey by all teams

i guess a gentlemen agreement is not a contract

[1988senna]

i guess a gentlemen agreement is not a contract

maybe like the f1 gentlemen agreement between senna and prost and finally been broken, So Toyota can still hire rovanpera and Tanaka :D

[meh]

... but when Loeb retired, then all champs (read: Ogier alone) was anyway in one team.

[TypeR]

So that's the reason why Wilson didn't call Rovanpera or Ogier to join Tanak for 2024..

[ferrial]

Neuville after Chile to Belgium press:

Autotranslated by Google: What if Tanak returned to Hyundai? "We have to strengthen the team. He will probably come back with the knowledge of another competing car, that can only help. I have always said it: it was the toughest team, the most difficult to beat . It was a reference for me, it gave me the opportunity to surpass myself from time to time. Even if collaboration as a team has not always been easy, with Cyril Abiteboul at the helm, he will play the game and that's fine be a good teammate ,” concludes the Hyundai driver.

Source: https://www.rtbf.be/article/wrc-chili-thierry-neuville-doit-oublier-le-titre-cette-saison-j-ai-l-impression-qu-on-fait-tout-ce-qu-il-faut-mais-la-reussite-n-est-pas-la-11264761

[EstWRC]

The last sentence sounds interesting but I guess it’s just bad translation

Well I read from this that Tänak to Hyundai then

[wwbroe]

The last sentence sounds interesting but I guess it’s just bad translation

Well I read from this that Tänak to Hyundai then

From what i read, that seems to be the case indeed

[cali]

The last sentence sounds interesting but I guess it’s just bad translation

Well I read from this that Tänak to Hyundai thenProbably he meant that Cyril will get Ott to more pull for the team than during his last stint at Hyundai.

Cyril is quite strong leader so I believe this will be the case

Sent from my CPH2493 using Tapatalk

[trykmann]

I don't understand the talk about Tänak not being a team player. What do they mean by that?

All the top drivers fight for their personal points and title. If they are successful, then obviously the team will gain also a good amount of points. If you don't have a chance anymore for the title, then you start to play the team game.

[CeskyOndra]

Is there some French person to translate it better? You know that Google Translator isnt optimal

[spyros]

Its a matter of time Ott leaves MSport but what next for them?

[becher]

I understand it more that Abiteboul will manage two top drivers better than the previous team principals did.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

At the post-Chile press conference Millener spoke very highly of Ott and for the rest of the season. Surprising if he knew he was leaving again already...

[CeskyOndra]

I think that If Tanak really goes to Hyundai that it will work for them well with Cyril in the lead. Both Tanak and Neuville really want to beat Toyota

[Danny0405]

Well, most likely for next year

Toyota: Kalle, Evans + Ogier-Katsuta
Hyundai: Neuville, Tanak + Lappi-Suninen
M-Sport: Fourmaux + a paying guy (+ 4 rounds for Loeb?)

I may not discard Mikkelsen instead of Suninen even if I think it’s not likely

[focus206]

Well, most likely for next year

Toyota: Kalle, Evans + Ogier-Katsuta
Hyundai: Neuville, Tanak + Lappi-Suninen
M-Sport: Fourmaux + a paying guy (+ 4 rounds for Loeb?)

I may not discard Mikkelsen instead of Suninen even if I think it’s not likely

I agree, but I think both Katsuta and Lappi will do full season, so maybe Suninen + Sordo? (if he wants to continue) for the 4th Hyundai.
M-Sport let's hope they will be there at all.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The struggle to continue will be real for M-Sport Ford without Tanak.

Breen in.2022 and Tanak in 2023 definitely gave them hopes of success. But with just Fourmaux and pay drivers the motivation just cant be there.

And even if they had money to splash, who of any quality could they tempt to join ?

[EstWRC]

How it seems to go based on the rumours so far

Toyota: Rovanperä, Evans, Katsuta, Ogier (part time)
Hyundai: Neuville, Tänak, Lappi, Suninen and Sordo sharing
M-sport: Fourmaux, Loubet and whoever else pays

How I wish it would go:

Toyota: Rovanperä, Tänak, Katsuta, Ogier (part time)
Hyundai: Neuville, Lappi, Suninen, Sordo (part time)
M-sport: Evans, Loubet, Fourmaux

[dimviii]

How I wish it would go:

Toyota: Rovanperä, Tänak, Katsuta, Ogier (part time)


last 10 years champions all together?

[TypeR]

There is no way Abiteboul couldn't get Kalle, Ogier or Tanak for 2024.. okay, Evans is also top5 driver, but.. not the first one to call.
If Abi says that they have stronger team for next year.. it must be Neuville/Tanak again.
This time they have a proper team principal(after Adamo) and the car is ready. At the beginning of 2022 the car was crap and all team management was cr4p also.

[CeskyOndra]

Im wondering when the news will come, maybe this week?

[EstWRC]

last 10 years champions all together?

why not?

Okay, you can take Ogier out from there if you wish.

But this wont happen anyway, its just my wish

[dimviii]

why not?

Okay, you can take Ogier out from there if you wish.

But this wont happen anyway, its just my wish
just because this would be a unbeatable team.

[EstWRC]

And its true https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-to-return-to-hyundai-for-2024/

Tänak to return to Hyundai

[CeskyOndra]

Yees

[seb_sh]

Well it's official! Good that the news came soon I was getting tired of all the speculation to be honest :)

Should be a good fight between Toyota and Hyundai next year, I suppose we'll have to wait a lot longer to find out what happens with MSport.

[Tauri_J]

Havent seen anything official yet, but I hope its true

[seb_sh]

well not "official", I didn't use the right word, but for me if Dirtfish published it it's as close to official as you can get.

[EstWRC]

well not "official", I didn't use the right word, but for me if Dirtfish published it it's as close to official as you can get.

Exactly. Dirtfish is basically official

[CeskyOndra]

I dont know what Hyundai is waiting for with anouncement

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont know what Hyundai is waiting for with anouncement

It's a bit awkward when Tanak is still at M-Sport and has two more events with them. All the contract details may not be finalised yet either, plus there's the other Hyundai drivers to consider.

[logic]

Exactly. Dirtfish is basically official
👀👀👀👀👀

[becher]

It's a bit awkward when Tanak is still at M-Sport and has two more events with them. All the contract details may not be finalised yet either, plus there's the other Hyundai drivers to consider.

Thats normal in motorsport, it just rallying were announcements are usually so late that the public only learns of it after the season, but deals are surly done earlier than december.

[seb_sh]

The Dirtfish Podcast about this was recorded on the 21st of September and they say they got it confirmed on the 20th. Apparently there was an agreement between the teams to not announce it at that time.

[EstWRC]

I don’t remember them being wrong. They were the first ones also last year to write that Tänak goes to Msport.

Same in 2019 when Ott went to Hyundai, although back then it was autosport but it was still David Evans who wrote it.

Also other numerous news. I mean Nowadays all these sites know it before all the official announcements. Like Autosport with F1 for example

[240RS]

For the sake of the sport, I sure do hope that M-Sport can get someone close to being an A-lister next year. Clearly there aren't many, but it would be a massive disappointment if we go back to a definite two team championship.

[Kenneth]

But maybe if M-Sport leaves, it would be finally wake up call for FIA.

[TypeR]

maybe Wilson offers some rally1 deal for Solberg?

[Kras]

Hopefully. That would make it worth it atleast

[Andre Oliveira]

The only way to M-Sport be in title run for 2024 is hire Neuville or Evans.

[Jewy46]

maybe Wilson offers some rally1 deal for Solberg?

This would be a good deal for M-Sport for sure. They need someone like him now with Tanak gone.
But for Oliver will he really take the risk, it would be safer to stay in a Rally 2 car.

Maybe a mix of some Rally1 outings alongside a WRC2 Championship campaign might work for both parties.

Otherwise I don't see where M-Sport are going to find someone who can be competitive unless they tempt Loeb for a few events.
Not an ideal situation for either them or the WRC promoter in my view.

[skarderud]

M-sport is in a difficult situasion.

Its eighter Evans or Lappi, or do some gambling with Mikkelsen, Solberg, Rossel, Gryazin, Fourmaux or Loubet.

Is Redbull following Tänak?
Solberg is monster, maybe not both in the same team?

Personal i think Solberg is driving Toyota Rally2 car next year in "PSWRT", as a pre-build for a potential subaru-comeback.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[er88]

For the sake of the sport, I sure do hope that M-Sport can get someone close to being an A-lister next year. Clearly there aren't many, but it would be a massive disappointment if we go back to a definite two team championship.

Why would any top driver go to Msport? Neuville is signed up at Hyundai and Evans is at the best team/car combination. It would take Evans to make a Tanak esque cock up and silly career decision to see him back at msport.

The best msport can hope for is Loeb doing 3or4 rallies, with red bull still ploughing money in and Loubet/fourmaux taking an unexpected jump in performance.

I can't even see Lappi wanting to return to msport, after how he was managed last time he was there.

Punt on solberg? But then you maybe lose the red bull backing.....

[denkimi]

If msport has no chance to win anything anyway, they might as wel go with something like solberg and pajari. That was the old business model of wilson, giving youngsters a chance and selling them off later in their carreer.

[1988senna]

Still no news for Ogier stay in Toyota or leave to Hyundai, How I hope he can join for Hyundai

[TWRC]

If Ogier wants a late-career challenge, he could go to M-Sport :D :D

[TypeR]

2 weeks ago Ogier said that there is no reason why leave Toyota..
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/ogier-no-reason-to-change-anything-for-2024-amid-hyundai-wrc-rumours/10522465/

[CeskyOndra]

Ogier likes joking.. But yes, there is no reason to leave Toyota.. He just wants fun and fun will not come with unreliable car

[Us44]

Somehow I feel sad that Tanak is not staying with MSport. Together they could fix the reliability issues and develop the car to his liking, but probably that's a budget question.

[focus206]

For Tanak it's surely an improvement, but let's not forget the propshaft, turbo and suspension problems Hyundai has had this season, still clearly a weaker car than Toyota. They need to improve reliability, or even with Tanak it will be a return of "amazing quality"...
For M-Sport let's hope they can find someone. If nobody is willing to pay for a full season, it would spice up each single event to rent the car to specialized drivers who want a taste of Rally1 (for example Lindholm + Pajari for Sweden and Finland, Solberg in Estonia, Fourmaux on tarmac etc.)

[doubled1978]

If Tanak does leave MSport as seems likely, I do hope they can get a good driver even if it is not one of the ‘A’ category guys to lead the team, I know he has his detractors but I would think Mikkelsen would be a good safe pair of hands. I have said many times on here that I believe Fourmaux will become a good driver, he has good speed, a nice driving style and is very determined. Equally, MSport seem to be playing their usual playbook with him and giving him time to develop away from the top class and gain experience. It all got on top of him last year with the mistakes, but MSport I think did the right thing. I would like to see him back as a second driver if there is a budget to do so next year. For me he is a far better prospect than Loubet.

[EstWRC]

I’m pretty sure Fourmaux is one of the drivers for Msport.

Can’t see where else Loubet also would go besides renting the car from Hyundai or Toyota if it’s possible

[seb_sh]

I think Toyota stays as it is. Evans last year struggled due to the diffs, which have to be the same for all drivers but in the meantime I read that they did some changes and as we can see he's winning rallies again (even if sometimes benefitting from circumstances).

As for MSport I think it's too early to speculate, as my feeling is they themselves don't know what they can do yet. Regarding Loeb, it's not a question of convincing him, I think it's simply a question of paying him to drive the car, somehow I doubt anything he does he does for free. Solberg I don't see it happening because of things already mentioned, probably another year in Rally2. Also seing the issues the various customers had with the Puma if I was in the position with money in hand I might rather go for the spare Toyota as Bertelli did...

[CeskyOndra]

Many people will disagree with me, but I think, that duo Neuville-Tanak will work nice next year. On the podium last Sunday, they looked like best friends, congratulations from Thierry to Ott after finish looked really lovely! :D

[meh]

I think you overthink too much how friendly Tänak and Neuville are or are not.

They are professionals. On that level, you respect your competitors, do you like them as person outside of competition or not, it's pure respect.

Another thing is just pragmatic - if you co-operate, you'll get benefits as well.

[becher]

Many people will disagree with me, but I think, that duo Neuville-Tanak will work nice next year. On the podium last Sunday, they looked like best friends, congratulations from Thierry to Ott after finish looked really lovely! :D

I agree, the Hyundai situation last year felt like a pushed manufactured conflict. I guess we have to little drive to survive style drama, so they have to make it up when there's a hint of conflict.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TÄNAK IN HYUNDAI
Ott Tänak could be close to a return to Hyundai for the 2024 season.
It is no mystery that the relationship between Tänak and M-Sport has taken a turn for the worse and that the Estonian driver has every possibility of not renewing his contract with the English team at the end of 2023.
Hyundai, on the other hand, is looking to hire a second top driver to join Neuville and Esapekka Lappi. The team first tried negotiations with Kalle Rovanperä and then with Sebastien Ogier without however finding success.
Undoubtedly Tänak is a top driver and the adequate economic offer can arrive.
In the second part of the 2022 season, Tänak expressed his desire to leave Hyundai and in fact moved to M-Sport.
His return would seem possible thanks to the figure of Cyril Abiteboul, Hyundai team principal, who arrived at the start of the current season.
The negotiation between Ott Tänak and Hyundai Motorsport could already be at an advanced stage.
The news was released by Areacorse.com

These guys had it right in mid-Sept ...

[seb_sh]

These guys had it right in mid-Sept ...

Dirtfish said in the podcast they knew for sure it was a done deal on 20th september so the timeline fits.

[Dontcut]

RedGrey to take over Hyundai Rally2 as well?

[EstWRC]

Confirmed now

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/return-of-tanak/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/384542606_1018940012477439_7445880960884650874_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ae9488&_nc_ohc=PfyQV9p1F-EAX9jMgDc&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-1.fna&oh=03_AdRc79Gr_qggO__dCdoDRJWF2ujaPC9wZiCEk0-ygxxMfQ&oe=6544B42D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-likely-to-target-young-drivers-for-wrc-2024-after-tanak-exit/10528414/

[Rallyest]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-likely-to-target-young-drivers-for-wrc-2024-after-tanak-exit/10528414/


Sounds to me again like Rich the Ostrich doesnt want to admit the car is not that good, Tänak obviously sayd that the car has not gotten any update since the beggining of the year, and the only pace from the car comes from Friday from Pierre before he crashes and Tänak clearly forced to overdrive and make mistakes in it(finland for example)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sounds to me again like Rich the Ostrich doesnt want to admit the car is not that good, Tänak obviously sayd that the car has not gotten any update since the beggining of the year, and the only pace from the car comes from Friday from Pierre before he crashes and Tänak clearly forced to overdrive and make mistakes in it(finland for example)

The car does have some pace and has achieved two wins this year. If it hadn't been for the unreliability then maybe several other good results would've been achieved too.

Tanak maybe has overdriven at times to win but he did the same at Hyundai in the second half of 2022. Neither car apparently suited his driving style but that didnt mean they were bad cars per se.

Lets see his comments on the i20 next year.

[MartijnS]

Poland is in for next year!

[rp]

Poland is in for next year!

Shame! Definetely should have been Argentina or New Zealand. Poland is almost the same kind of event than Latvia. Now there is three high speed gravel events in a row.

[HKSjbg]

Shame! Definetely should have been Argentina or New Zealand. Poland is almost the same kind of event than Latvia. Now there is three high speed gravel events in a row.

And also at a ‘dusty’ time of year. There’s very little autumnal or damp gravel in the championship these days, especially with Chile moving from May to September. The whole run from Portugal in May to Chile in September would potentially be the same :(

[Tauri_J]

Shame! Definetely should have been Argentina or New Zealand. Poland is almost the same kind of event than Latvia. Now there is three high speed gravel events in a row.

I dont mind three spectacular high speed gravel events and especially so close to mine. But I agree that calendar needs variety.

[EstWRC]

The whining about the calendar is absolutely ridiculous on Twitter in various comments sections.

Especially from UK people who seem to be pissed that GB isn’t in the calendar but that isn’t only promoters fault.

I can’t get my head around why people don’t like fast events and how can you call the run from Portugal to Chile the same?

My only complaint is that there be should a tarmac round also in the middle of the season.

[HKSjbg]

Not the same as in the events are all of the same nature - but Portugal used to be in March, Chile first ran in May - there should be some more variety in terms of time of year and possible weather conditions. It’s the dustyness that bores me.

Poland, Latvia and especially Finland will all have very different stage characteristics, and Finland rarely has a dust issue - but the lack of variety doesn’t make for much excitement as each rally comes around.

I’d much prefer to see any of the following: Portugal earlier in the year; Chile in May again; Acropolis back in it’s traditional May/June slot (that’s one rally I think we can all agree should be dusty!); Poland in September which it was often held in before joining the WRC in 2009 (was it a traditional time of year for Rajd Polski though?)

[EstWRC]

Ah that’s what you meant. Got it and I agree in that sense

[HKSjbg]

Also, having read Luke Barry’s piece on it on Dirt Fish I can see why Poland should have a spot on the WRC calendar, but I still won’t be excited when that weekend comes around

[ToKu]

Traditional time for Poland was and is late May/early June. In 2009 and 2014 - 2017 (WRC years) it was late June. September was time of year in years 2011 - 2013 and 2018.

Anyway, obviously I'm happy that Poland is in calendar, but to be honest I would prefer Estonia, cause Estonia is great rally with MANY JUMPS and also in my operational range.

Plan for next year POLAND and LATVIA!:)

[lmmjvss]

So.... Polska & Latvija to WRC and France & Eesti to ERC?
I was hoping for a return of Argentina, but Chile won my heart (Im a south american)

[HKSjbg]

Haven’t heard anything in a few months about France in the ERC, is it still happening? Last thing I read on the ERC side of this forum was that Hungary was swapping it’s tarmac season finale for a gravel March opener, Rajd Polksi was being swapped for Rajd Śląska and Estonia plus Ceredigion effectively replace Latvia and Fafe. Fafe not holding the ERC opener was then refuted…

https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?43524-2024-ERC-News-amp-Rumours&p=1332660&viewfull=1#post1332660

[AndyRAC]

The whining about the calendar is absolutely ridiculous on Twitter in various comments sections.

Especially from UK people who seem to be pissed that GB isn’t in the calendar but that isn’t only promoters fault.


I'm also bored of fellow Brits moaning about no RallyGB; are they all naive or not capable of understanding how the sport works? It costs money to hold these events - and has to come from somewhere. No businesses in the UK think it's worth the money needed. We also don't have a round of the WEC, but you don't see the same level of moaning.
F1 & MotoGP have UK rounds, but they don't receive any government funding, and neither should any RallyGB. If the sport can't stand on its own two feet, then tough.

[bluuford]

And also at a ‘dusty’ time of year. There’s very little autumnal or damp gravel in the championship these days, especially with Chile moving from May to September. The whole run from Portugal in May to Chile in September would potentially be the same :(

Are you joking? 2023, Estonia, massive rain, Finland - massive rain during recce and first days, Greece - flooding and mud, Sardegna - massive rain, Kenya - massive rain before and during some stages, Chile - massive rain before the event, access roads nearly impossible to drive, luckily some drying by rally, still many puddles. I am fed up of this bad weather during rallies in 2023 already :P

[HKSjbg]

Are you joking? 2023, Estonia, massive rain, Finland - massive rain during recce and first days, Greece - flooding and mud, Sardegna - massive rain, Kenya - massive rain before and during some stages, Chile - massive rain before the event, access roads nearly impossible to drive, luckily some drying by rally, still many puddles. I am fed up of this bad weather during rallies in 2023 already :P

What I meant was that the potential for those rallies being dusty was there. Chile did end up being very dry and dusty during the event, while in 2019 it most definitely had a very autumnal/wintery feel to it. This year Monte, Sweden, CER and Japan will only offer that and it’s the lack of seasonal variety I lament

[WRCStan]

I'm also bored of fellow Brits moaning about no RallyGB; are they all naive or not capable of understanding how the sport works? It costs money to hold these events - and has to come from somewhere. No businesses in the UK think it's worth the money needed. We also don't have a round of the WEC, but you don't see the same level of moaning.
F1 & MotoGP have UK rounds, but they don't receive any government funding, and neither should any RallyGB. If the sport can't stand on its own two feet, then tough.

Fair point on moaners, and I don't want to get political for obvious reasons but where do you draw the line on your other point? Half the calendar or more is state supported, some states supporting entries too - the French even supporting an M-Sport Rally1 entry. This series could look very different without any "public" funds. That could be better, or could be worse.

[sinepikohv]

Fair point on moaners, and I don't want to get political for obvious reasons but where do you draw the line on your other point? Half the calendar or more is state supported, some states supporting entries too - the French even supporting an M-Sport Rally1 entry. This series could look very different without any "public" funds. That could be better, or could be worse.

Are there any facts that FFSA is still supporting Loubet? AFAIK his patron is Alexandre Leroy.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting quote from Latvala on Tanak (after he moved back to Hyundai)...

"I appreciate Tänak as a driver, but he would not be the best choice for this team of ours. He is an individual driver who will do everything to win his own championship. We have to think about the brand championship, and the drivers have to get along well with each other," says Latvala.

[WRCStan]

Are there any facts that FFSA is still supporting Loubet? AFAIK his patron is Alexandre Leroy.

https://www.ffsa.org/univers/ffsa/haut-niveau/equipes-de-france/pr%C3%A9sentation
https://www.ffsa.org/univers/ffsa/haut-niveau/equipes-de-france/les-pilotes

[wyler]

Interesting quote from Latvala on Tanak (after he moved back to Hyundai)...

"I appreciate Tänak as a driver, but he would not be the best choice for this team of ours. He is an individual driver who will do everything to win his own championship. We have to think about the brand championship, and the drivers have to get along well with each other," says Latvala.

not a real news...

[meh]

Interesting quote from Latvala on Tanak (after he moved back to Hyundai)...

"I appreciate Tänak as a driver, but he would not be the best choice for this team of ours. He is an individual driver who will do everything to win his own championship. We have to think about the brand championship, and the drivers have to get along well with each other," says Latvala.

Which driver is not there for winning the title? If to use term from Porter, then I'm talking about "A-listers" here.

Can he point out some situations from the past, when Tänak did something against the team scoring points?

Is Ogier there to help the team or just collecting own wins?

I smell some BS from Latvala to just "make their choices to sound smart".

[trykmann]

Which driver is not there for winning the title? If to use term from Porter, then I'm talking about "A-listers" here.

Can he point out some situations from the past, when Tänak did something against the team scoring points?

Is Ogier there to help the team or just collecting own wins?

I smell some BS from Latvala to just "make their choices to sound smart".

We need to remember season 2019, where Latvala and Meeke lost the manufacturers title, when they couldn't play the teams game :D

[Tauri_J]

We need to remember season 2019, where Latvala and Meeke lost the manufacturers title, when they couldn't play the teams game :D

Oh I remember, especially Finland. Latvala and Meeke trying to fight Tänak and both crashed.

[flat_right]

Interesting quote from Latvala on Tanak (after he moved back to Hyundai)...

"I appreciate Tänak as a driver, but he would not be the best choice for this team of ours. He is an individual driver who will do everything to win his own championship. We have to think about the brand championship, and the drivers have to get along well with each other," says Latvala.

I don't remember any situation where Tänak hasn't played the team game.

I would rephrase Latvala's comment this way that he is afraid that Tänak and Rovanpera would be equally matched and this would create the situation where both would be pushing and there is a chance that one of them would crash meaning that they would loose points. They would rather need driver(s) who are a bit slower and Kalle would have easier time.

[TypeR]

One day Tanak can't join because two WDC's can't drive in one team, another day that he is not a team player..
Sounds like stupid excuses not to see Tanak and Kalle racing in same car. Understandable.. as it's half Finnish team.

Tanak has manufacturer titles with 3 different teams..

2017 M-Sport
2018 Toyota
2020 Hyundai

[meh]

... and remind me, who was the manager for Latvala? and is manager for Rovanperä? .. and often throwing shit towards Tänak?

Yes, the name is Jouhki. Maybe not related here at all in practice, but he is the connection point.

[emmanuelkatto]

I would put my bet on Cyril. It seems like he is determined to get someone toptop driver in his line-up as they are not able to win the manu title at the moment.

Hi, my name is Emmanuel Katto from Uganda, I do agree with you I feel the same...

[seb_sh]

One day Tanak can't join because two WDC's can't drive in one team, another day that he is not a team player..
Sounds like stupid excuses not to see Tanak and Kalle racing in same car. Understandable.. as it's half Finnish team.

Tanak has manufacturer titles with 3 different teams..

2017 M-Sport
2018 Toyota
2020 Hyundai

It was not that 2 WDCs can't drive in the same team. He specifically said there is a gentlemen's agreement that a team doesn't hire all the WDCs to keep some balance. I feel people are intentionally misunderstanding that. Some even said if Evans wins he has to leave and so on. I think people are bored and nitpicking or intentionally misunderstanding. Probably flat_right has a more realistic view of the meaning of the quote.

In the end for the WRC it's good that Tanak went to Hyundai and not Toyota as this way it's more balanced.

[meh]

It was not that 2 WDCs can't drive in the same team. He specifically said there is a gentlemen's agreement that a team doesn't hire all the WDCs to keep some balance. I feel people are intentionally misunderstanding that. Some even said if Evans wins he has to leave and so on. I think people are bored and nitpicking or intentionally misunderstanding. Probably flat_right has a more realistic view of the meaning of the quote.

In the end for the WRC it's good that Tanak went to Hyundai and not Toyota as this way it's more balanced.

It's called journalism nowadays :) Find the drama and some reason to be offended...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I don't remember any situation where Tänak hasn't played the team game.

I would rephrase Latvala's comment this way that he is afraid that Tänak and Rovanpera would be equally matched and this would create the situation where both would be pushing and there is a chance that one of them would crash meaning that they would loose points. They would rather need driver(s) who are a bit slower and Kalle would have easier time.

To be fair, Toyota is the one team that has always declared 'No team orders' and drivers are free to fight.

But having two 'No.1 drivers' (like if Rovanpera & Tanak) then it would be pretty hard to continue with this policy.

[Tauri_J]

It was not that 2 WDCs can't drive in the same team. He specifically said there is a gentlemen's agreement that a team doesn't hire all the WDCs to keep some balance. I feel people are intentionally misunderstanding that. Some even said if Evans wins he has to leave and so on. I think people are bored and nitpicking or intentionally misunderstanding. Probably flat_right has a more realistic view of the meaning of the quote.

In the end for the WRC it's good that Tanak went to Hyundai and not Toyota as this way it's more balanced.

If Evans wins they Will not have all the champions in one team

[becher]

It's called journalism nowadays :) Find the drama and some reason to be offended...

Works every time Tänak is mentioned.

[TypeR]

It was not that 2 WDCs can't drive in the same team. He specifically said there is a gentlemen's agreement that a team doesn't hire all the WDCs to keep some balance. I feel people are intentionally misunderstanding that. Some even said if Evans wins he has to leave and so on. I think people are bored and nitpicking or intentionally misunderstanding. Probably flat_right has a more realistic view of the meaning of the quote.

In the end for the WRC it's good that Tanak went to Hyundai and not Toyota as this way it's more balanced.
Same.

It's not like there is 5-6 manus title chase and team X hires 4 WDCs to the team. It is 2 teams fighting for manufacturer title atm.
Teams put tens and tens of millions per year for competing in WRC and if they see that some certain driver is needed, then they try to get him. Bs ,,gentlemen agreement''.
At the moment it is totally understandable that Toyota keeps their current line-up, as their drivers are 1-2.
All would be okay, if there weren't all these Latvala's talks about why Tanak can't join Toyota.
I'm sure if Toyoda said that he wants Tanak, he would get him.

It's just that somebody has to justify himself as a principal and others (journalists) make stories with Tanak mentioned in them and clicks come.

[meh]

https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/8fd35f59-d635-4f6a-bfa8-ab84335658cd

So Lappi back to Toyota?

.. or is it just some old news and I have completely missed it?

[EstWRC]

well he says he is very satisfied with the new contract, so from that i rather see its a full season with Hyundai than selected rallies with Toyota

[meh]

well he says he is very satisfied with the new contract, so from that i rather see its a full season with Hyundai than selected rallies with Toyota

Why not full season with Toyota? Toyota should make their step to not loose points via Takamoto as manu scorer. Maybe 3 full-season cars and one to share.

[EstWRC]

Why not full season with Toyota? Toyota should make their step to not loose points via Takamoto as manu scorer. Maybe 3 full-season cars and one to share.

Can be. He fits into the “gentlemen’s agreement” and isn’t a world champion ;)

[TypeR]

Why not full season with Toyota? Toyota should make their step to not loose points via Takamoto as manu scorer. Maybe 3 full-season cars and one to share.

Lappi full season would mean that Toyota must put out 5 cars on half events(when Ogier drives). No way Takamoto does half season.

[Rallyest]

Can be. He fits into the “gentlemen’s agreement” and isn’t a world champion ;)


I will make this rumour even greater, Lappi back to Toyota and Evans to Hyundai :)

[CeskyOndra]

Or Ogier to Hyundai. But this would be so strong line-up for Hyundai

[paddocknews]

I will make this rumour even greater, Lappi back to Toyota and Evans to Hyundai :)

Evans to stay with Toyota in 2023-2024 :)

[bluuford]

Evans to stay with Toyota in 2023-2024 :)

I can confirm that at least half of your post is 100% true!!!!!;)